They say beggars can't be choosers!

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Maybe some of you have heard of the HUGE influx of essentially ILLEGAL ALIENS trying to claim refuge status. SOME apparently have equated their new desired host to JESUS, though that is odd because so many aren't Christian. Anyway, they plan to get paid for nothing, and have all their sickness, and even blindness, taken care of for FREE! I guess I can understand that since their desired benefactor HAS done it for many of their friends, but it is getting REALLY bad now shutting down trains and the like.

So WHO is their desired benefactor? WHO are they fasting, shutting down transportation, and protesting to get to? WHO are they annoying all these countries to get to? GERMANY!

But now THIS has GOT to take the cake! SOME of them are DEMANDING that Germany change a celebration and society that they have had for HUNDREDS of years! One wrote:

I am writing this letter to bring to your attention something that I and many Muslims believe is unfair and requires attention. I would like to inform you that the Oktoberfest is an Intolerant and Anti-Islamic event. We tried to ignore the event, but there too many Un-Islamic acts done at the Oktoberfest. Such as alcohol consumption, public nudity etc.

We understand that the Oktoberfest is a yearly German tradition, but we, Muslims, can not tolerate this Un-Islamic event, because it offends us and all Muslims on the earth. We are requesting the immediate cancellation of the upcoming Oktoberfest event.

We also believe that the Oktoberfest might also offend all the Muslim refugees coming from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. The cancellation of the Oktoberfest event will help refugees not to forget their Islamic history. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

Morad Almuradi
Can you get that? The letter tries to sound so fair, etc.... and indicates a slight has been done, BUT.... The TRANSLATION? "We came to you looking to be full parasites, and we desire not to change our ways, so YOU CHANGE YOURS!" I guess THEY never heard the bit about "when in rome do as the romans", or "Do not associate with those that violate...".

Steve
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Break Oktoberfest : snopes.com


    Steve - it's not true - but an example of people believing without verifying

    I don't know how anyone can look at the faces of those Syrian children and not want to help those families. Let's get honest - Europe and the US did NOT want to take on the problems in Syria...and this is the result.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Break Oktoberfest : snopes.com


      Steve - it's not true - but an example of people believing without verifying

      I don't know how anyone can look at the faces of those Syrian children and not want to help those families. Let's get honest - Europe and the US did NOT want to take on the problems in Syria...and this is the result.
      Kay; I admire your effort. A lone light, in a sea of blackness. I wish you were not so rare.


      That's right, I still got game.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Kay; I admire your effort. A lone light, in a sea of blackness. I wish you were not so rare.


        That's right, I still got game.
        MAD LIBS! WOW, I never realized the irony and multiple meanings before! I have to remember that!

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Libs

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Kay; I admire your effort. A lone light, in a sea of blackness. I wish you were not so rare.


        That's right, I still got game.
        I wondered what the smell was.
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    • Profile picture of the author HN
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      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I don't know how anyone can look at the faces of those Syrian children and not want to help those families. Let's get honest - Europe and the US did NOT want to take on the problems in Syria...and this is the result.
      This began long before Syria.

      Gaddafi's Revenge
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    • Profile picture of the author butters
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Break Oktoberfest : snopes.com


      Steve - it's not true - but an example of people believing without verifying

      I don't know how anyone can look at the faces of those Syrian children and not want to help those families. Let's get honest - Europe and the US did NOT want to take on the problems in Syria...and this is the result.
      Here's the problem Kay, especially in the UK. We are dealing with an influx of migrants from all over of deprived Europe. Put aside the stereotype and go but how it's portrayed in the media. At the end of the day people are tired of putting up people from other countries, call it discrimination but when you see homeless on the streets with no help or single mothers struggling, it's understandable. The British public has become desensitised to migrants it's unreal, we are trying to fix the problems of the world before fixing our own. That's why, especially in the UK, most people I've talked to have said, we had enough. That's being said, I don't care if we take 20k migrants from camps because if I was in their position, id do the exact same thing... But a question, with so many wealthy countries surrounding these countries and are not at war, the question arises, what are they coming to Europe for?
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      • Profile picture of the author alistair
        The vast majority of these people are economic migrants coming to Europe just for a better life. Yes there are also those fleeing war and terror, but that's mainly because of completely fcuked up decisions taken by countries like the USA and the UK over the last decade and more..

        Anyway Angela Merkel (stupid, stupid woman) as we know recently sent an open invitation for Syrians to go to Germany by saying they'll take 800,000 of them as a start (not for humanitarian reasons but for their own economic reasons is the truth) and then tried to bully the rest of Europe and the UK to take more as well. Like Germany can dictate to us about helping refugees!

        So now Syrians and everybody else who want to come here, for WHATEVER reason, think they are welcome to just come to Europe however they can get here. So expect to see more dead kids washed up on the beach. Unfortunately for these people they're now finding out that not everybody feels the way Angela Merkel had them believe and are having the open door slammed in their face. Personally I wouldn't welcome anybody into my own home if I didn't have a clue who they were, and no I don't want them coming here either.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by alistair View Post

          The vast majority of these people are economic migrants coming to Europe just for a better life. Yes there are also those fleeing war and terror, but that's mainly because of completely fcuked up decisions taken by countries like the USA and the UK over the last decade and more..

          Anyway Angela Merkel (stupid, stupid woman) as we know recently sent an open invitation for Syrians to go to Germany by saying they'll take 800,000 of them as a start (not for humanitarian reasons but for their own economic reasons is the truth) and then tried to bully the rest of Europe and the UK to take more as well. Like Germany can dictate to us about helping refugees!
          The UN has been mandating this for a LONG time! HECK, DENMARK is taking people from CHINA!

          So now Syrians and everybody else who want to come here, for WHATEVER reason, think they are welcome to just come to Europe however they can get here. So expect to see more dead kids washed up on the beach. Unfortunately for these people they're now finding out that not everybody feels the way Angela Merkel had them believe and are having the open door slammed in their face. Personally I wouldn't welcome anybody into my own home if I didn't have a clue who they were, and no I don't want them coming here either.
          Even Angela Merkel NEVER said the WORLD could come. That is STUPID! Germany would be BROKE, and the WHOLE NATION would die of overcrowding, starvation, and poverty! WEALTH is VALUE/NEED!!!!!!!!!!!! If you decrease the value too much(INDIGENT WORKERS DO THAT), or you increase the need too much(Every resident raises the need), then the wealth goes down the toilet!

          Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by alistair View Post

          The vast majority of these people are economic migrants coming to Europe just for a better life. Yes there are also those fleeing war and terror, but that's mainly because of completely fcuked up decisions taken by countries like the USA and the UK over the last decade and more...
          Isn't the idea that the west is to blame for the problems of these countries PRECISELY what leads western countries into be guilted into taking in people?

          seems we are darned if we intervene and darned if we don't.

          Like you said though - You guys have a serious issue. As long as even one of the many EU states are willing to take on any people they choose you are obligated to allow them (some kind of) access as well since they are then EU citizens. if anyone could come to the US legally from South or central America it would cause some SERIOUS issues.

          P.S. I can't fault Syrians though. Who would not want to get away from the regime in Syria
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          • Profile picture of the author butters
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Isn't the idea that the west is to blame for the problems of these countries PRECISELY what leads western countries into be guilted into taking in people?

            seems we are darned if we intervene and darned if we don't.

            Like you said though - You guys have a serious issue. As long as even one of the many EU states are willing to take on any people they choose you are obligated to allow them (some kind of) access as well since they EU citizens. if anyone could come to the US legally from South or central America it would cause some SERIOUS issues.

            P.S. I can't fault Syrians though. Who would not want to get away from the regime in Syria
            Pretty much the whole crisis in a nut shell.
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


            P.S. I can't fault Syrians though. Who would not want to get away from the regime in Syria
            I cant either. These kids washing up on the shore is just horrific

            BUT...
            May God forgive me, but I just cannot help wondering from just a theoretical perspective how these Countries like Syria would react and their reception to Germans, US and other more Western Countries if the shoes were on the other feet ? Roles were reversed ?

            I could just see it now Germans and Americans bringing in their Annual Christmas Parades etc..to downtown Damascus. Wonder how that would go over? lol

            Thats why I say as a World we need to not only respect each others' beliefs and feelings but we need to embrace them in a warm and very friendly and humble way.

            Otherwise, ugly hypocrisy will continue flourish.

            And you never know whose help you are going to need when something bad happens.

            Sometimes this whole thing seems like damned if you do and damned if you don't for Western Countries !!
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by butters View Post

        Here's the problem Kay, especially in the UK. We are dealing with an influx of migrants from all over of deprived Europe. Put aside the stereotype and go but how it's portrayed in the media. At the end of the day people are tired of putting up people from other countries, call it discrimination but when you see homeless on the streets with no help or single mothers struggling, it's understandable. The British public has become desensitised to migrants it's unreal, we are trying to fix the problems of the world before fixing our own. That's why, especially in the UK, most people I've talked to have said, we had enough. That's being said, I don't care if we take 20k migrants from camps because if I was in their position, id do the exact same thing... But a question, with so many wealthy countries surrounding these countries and are not at war, the question arises, what are they coming to Europe for?
        With the Uk having a population of 64 million people and rising I'm not surprised. It's getting too overcrowded. The whole of Texas only has 26 million. Many people from Europe, especially Eastern, came to the UK. Our social services, free healthcare and benefits are a huge attraction to them. They were better off living here unemployed than in there own country. This being easy for them too which is down to us being in the EEC which the Eastern Europeans joined. It allows for free movement between countries to work and live.

        The reality is though, we don't travel around much but they do.

        Immigration to and occupation of the UK should be curbed, not for any racist reasons, just practical and economic ones. Some European countries like Germany and others could easily absorb many refugees because they have an ageing population, having less and less children Quite a few other countries are experiencing this phenomena too (for whatever reasons)
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      • Profile picture of the author zippot
        well said lee
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I don't know how anyone can look at the faces of those Syrian children and not want to help those families.
      Wanting to help and being forced to help are 2 different animals in the political zoo.

      Being forced to help at the expense of our lives and our liberties is an unacceptable price to pay.


      Let's look at a few numbers. You haven't seen them in the New York Times, Atlanta Constitution, or the Miami Herald, nor have they been featured on NBC Nightly news or CNN. So, the average American is blissfully unaware of them.

      Between 2008 and 2014, 40% of all murder convictions in Florida were criminal aliens. In New York it was 34% and Arizona 17.8%.

      During those years, criminal aliens accounted for 38% of all murder convictions in the five states of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida and New York, while illegal aliens constitute only 5.6% of the total population in those states.

      That 38% represents 7,085 murders out of the total of 18,643.
      Illegal Alien Crime Accounts for over 30% of Murders in Many States - Breitbart


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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Let's get honest - Europe and the US did NOT want to take on the problems in Syria...
      Let's get honest - many of the problems in Syria are the result of an incompetent, cowardly and stupid executive branch of the US government.


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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        Let's get honest - many of the problems in Syria are the result of an incompetent, cowardly and stupid executive branch of the US government.


        Joe Mobley
        Let's get really honest. All the problems in the Middle East are the result of them having the world's largest reserves of oil.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        Let's get honest - many of the problems in Syria are the result of an incompetent, cowardly and stupid executive branch of the US government.


        Joe Mobley
        And that's why his brother is at 3% in the polls.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          And that's why his brother is at 3% in the polls.
          Well, BO.. doesn't have HIS brother there. It would be interesting in a NUMBER of ways to see what would happen.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            I was going to chastise the lunatic fringe of the members here, for getting this thread deleted or frozen.

            But I see that it started out as blustery political nonsense...and deserves to get deleted. So...carry on.
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            • Profile picture of the author alistair
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I was going to chastise the lunatic fringe of the members here, for getting this thread deleted or frozen.

              But I see that it started out as blustery political nonsense...and deserves to get deleted. So...carry on.
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              ... the lunatic fringe of the members here, for getting this thread deleted or frozen.
              Ad hominem attacks tend to help too!
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Ad hominem attacks tend to help too!
                Everyone knows if they are one of the people that habitually get threads locked.

                But it doesn't stop them from arguing....and getting threads locked.

                I didn't mention names, because everyone here knows who they are.
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  • Profile picture of the author Corey Taylor
    Seems legit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Seems legit.
      What does?
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, it IS accepted fact, by a LOT of nations, that the refugees are coming over. Is it on US media and conservative sites? SURE! But if you don't believe THAT, believe THIS! I heard about it FIRST on deutsche wellea german news site. As for that letter I showed? AGAIN, it is internationally recognized fact that they DO want, and have protested to, CHANGE THE LAW in some countries, including Germany!

    HERE is KERRY on DW today talking about some of the refugees: Assad exit key to ending refugee crisis: Kerry | News | DW.COM | 19.09.2015

    HERE is one from DW almost 2 weems ago talking about it: Refugees and tourists in Budapest | DW Travel | DW.COM | 18.09.2015

    Here is one of many talking about the desire to change the law, about a year ago!!!!!: Germany won

    HERE is a statement made by an interior minister, in context:

    Conservative members of Chancellor Angela Merkel's coalition put forward a united front at the weekend against recent developments in the city of Wuppertal. Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said civilians wearing uniforms bearing the logo "Shariah police" could not simply start patrolling German streets.

    Salafisten in Deutschland
    The Salafist scene includes many German-born converts

    The groups reportedly hovered around sites like discotheques and gambling houses, telling passers-by to refrain from gambling and alcohol. Wuppertal's police have begun pressing charges.

    "Sharia law is not tolerated on German soil," de Maiziere told mass-circulation daily Bild on Saturday. "Nobody can take it upon themselves to abuse the good name of the German police."


    As for this letter? EVEN SNOPES admits their bias, in a roundabout way:

    While the petition was “real” in the sense that someone actually posted it to Change.org, it was not written by “Muslim refugees” in Germany as implied by some publications. The author of the petition, Morad Almuradi, listed his location as The Netherlands:
    Read more at Break Oktoberfest : snopes.com
    HEY, muslims are EVERYWHERE now, INCLUDING the Netherlands, and location means LITTLE these days! BTW WHO said it was written by a muslim refugee in Germany, and what difference does it make? The "Occupy movement" for example started SOMEWHERE. WHO knows or cares where, they only questions are why and who, and the fact is that it started.

    SO, true or false, most of the substance is true, and movements have started with FAR FAR FAR LESS! And WHY would one lie about that? I mean it is only another straw, and that camels back should have broken a while ago.

    Steve
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  • Guess it's a case of some folks begging not to be shot & others choosing to ignore what's happening beyond the fence at the end of their yard.

    Kids are dying, and gangs of desperate guys are pulling down fences and throwing missiles.

    From the imagry POV, be nice to think that a whole bunch of persuaders could massage the public mood on a kid ticket better'n some other bunch could pull the same trick re: alien hordes.

    But persuasion doesn't figure in this deal right now on our voyeur's side of the fence.

    Whole lotta fear, whole lotta terror, whole lotta let's get the f*ck outta here.

    Yup: you're gonna RUN.

    Europe may be the finish line, but fixing this means heading back to the start line for the guy firing the pistol.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    There's nothing like a crisis such as this to bring out the very best in human nature. Sadly it also brings out the very worst as well.

    I'll let everyone else determine who is exhibiting the good side and who is showing the bad side in this thread.
    Three guys are sitting at a table (Mr 1%, Mr 99% and Mr Immigrant). On the table are 20 cookies.

    Mr 1% takes 19 cookies for himself, and then tells Mr 99% that Mr Immigrant is coming to take away his cookie,
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    • Profile picture of the author alistair
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Even Angela Merkel NEVER said the WORLD could come. That is STUPID!

      Steve
      Who said she said anything about the whole world?

      Basically she said any Syrian that reaches Germany can claim asylum there. Now Germany aren't coping either because they're being overwhelmed with the numbers arriving because of her stupid words.

      And as has been reported, what's to stop others from elsewhere claiming to be from Syria, whether they are or not? Just because Germany say they can claim asylum in Germany doesn't mean all of them will end up staying in Germany. Germany will do what they always do, look after their own interests by filtering out those who they want to stay and dispersing the rest across Europe.

      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      There's nothing like a crisis such as this to bring out the very best in human nature. Sadly it also brings out the very worst as well.

      I'll let everyone else determine who is exhibiting the good side and who is showing the bad side in this thread.
      Thanks for letting us determine who is exhibiting the good side and who is showing the bad side, much appreciated. So the good side I guess is those who would just let them all in. And the bad side would be those that would say sorry but you're not welcome? Would this be your view?

      Anyway, I'm not against giving asylum to genuine people but most of these people aren't fleeing persecution, and asylum seekers are entering this country every day as it is, one way or another.

      Thanks to the EU anybody in it can come and live here whether they have a job or not, and they do. I live in the south east of England, in Kent and if I walk down our high street I hear plenty of foreign voices any day of the week, mainly eastern European. I've nothing against them, most of them are here to work and earn some decent money but there's already problems with housing and hospitals and so on and at some point you have to be realistic and put a limit on numbers and as we can't limit those legally coming here then unfortunately the people that need real help are the ones to suffer. That's how it is.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by alistair View Post

        Would this be your view?
        Nope. Not even remotely close to what I was implying.

        I will say this though, you should perhaps have a look at your country's role in creating turmoil in the Middle East, going all the way back to the Sykes-Picot agreement.
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        • Profile picture of the author alistair
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          I will say this though, you should perhaps have a look at your country's role in creating turmoil in the Middle East, going all the way back to the Sykes-Picot agreement.
          Thanks for the advice but that is basically what I was implying in the first part of my first post. I edited a lot out of what I was going to say before posting because it no doubt would have annoyed a lot of people here and would have got the thread shut no doubt.

          I will say however that I never, ever agreed with the person responsible over here for taking this country into an illegal war, and all based on deceit. They are a psychopath, one of the devils children for sure and should be done for treason and war crimes in my opinion and there's plenty of people over here that feel exactly the same.
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by alistair View Post

            I will say however that I never, ever agreed with the person responsible over here for taking this country into an illegal war, and all based on deceit. They are a psychopath, one of the devils children for sure and should be done for treason and war crimes in my opinion and there's plenty of people over here that feel exactly the same.

            I certainly agree with you on that. Our PM at the time should be in the dock alongside him for war crimes. Somehow though I don't get the impression that your guy's predecessor (she who was made of iron), or his successor (your current head boy) would've done anything differently.

            Since the discovery of oil in the ME, the whole place has been a litany of errors and a quagmire for the west.

            From Sykes-Picot drawing up arbitrary borders with no thought for tribal and ethnic divisions within each land, to the CIA/MI6 coup against the democratically elected Mossadegh government in Iran, to the propping up of the brutal Saudi regime, to supplying Saddam with chemical weapons, to the creation of Al Qaeda to oust the Russians from Afghanistan, to the current mess. The whole region has been one cluster#$% after another for the West.

            This is yet another reason for us to move to renewable sources of energy as quickly as possible.

            Now I know after we leave the region will become a bloodbath, but it's up to them to work it out for themselves. After all it took the West centuries of revolutions, rebellions, civil wars and rivers of blood before we finally got it right(ish).
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        "Mr 1% takes 19 cookies for himself, and then tells Mr 99% that Mr Immigrant is coming to take away his cookie..."

        and mr. 99% has a split personality. 50% of him believes what Mr 1% says and 50% realize mr. 1% is lying.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, the US government obviously has a lot of complicity here, but the UN and some participating countries are AT LEAST as responsible. As for the "refugees"? Some have been OFFERED "asylum", and the "rufugees" REFUSED!!!!!!! They want to be in GERMANY! Some even made it to AUSTRIA, but they think AUSTRIA is stuck in the 18th century, and Germany is in the 23rd century or whatever, and WANT to be there!

    Austria introduces checks at Hungarian border | News | DW.COM | 16.09.2015

    As for the cookie argument? So you are saying many of the refugees are part of the 1%? Then WHAT is your argument? I mean the REFUGEES admitted they want the cookies! THAT is why they are protesting NOT for asylum, but asylum and domicile in GERMANY! They want free immediate healthcare, and the free social support.

    The idea of sharia, etc... is just ICING on the cake.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      As for the cookie argument? So you are saying many of the refugees are part of the 1%
      Even further from the mark that alistair. It's actually a variation on an ages old gag where Mr Richguy = Mr 1%, Mr Middlclassguy = Mr 99% and Mr Poorguy = Mr Immigrant.

      Another variation on it is:

      FOXNews - a billionaire paying millionaires to tell middle class people that poor people are the problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        Even further from the mark that alistair. It's actually a variation on an ages old gag where Mr Richguy = Mr 1%, Mr Middlclassguy = Mr 99% and Mr Poorguy = Mr Immigrant.

        Another variation on it is:
        But the iigrant can NOT be the 1% or the poor immigrant, because THEY are saying they want cookies.

        And the indigents ARE part of the problem. Do you REALLY think a country can just keep taking in people? I don't get it! HOW do you guys figure "WE CAN AFFORD IT" and yet claim that the people being "helped" have NO affect on wealth? I mean if they have NO affect, then why don't they help one another? If they have an affect, then HOW can ANYONE help EVERYONE? There HAS to be a limit. And 100square miles of land is NEVER 100square miles you can use. Some is just not usable, and you need access(like roads), resources(like food and building resources and water), and sanitation(like sewers, etc), and support(like offices).

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Hellofa issue for a historically bloody and now heavily populated little planet. There are no easy answers but the 20 cookie analogy by Whateverpedia is right on target.

    There are a few other reasons why things are so tight for the average person in the western countries and IMHO the Arab states should shoulder a lot more of the responsibilities of looking out for their own.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      There's a special report (on CNN, I think) that has been airing. A journalist was traveling with some the refugees and getting the stories. It's only 30-45 minutes long but it is compelling and I'd suggest watching it if you can.

      Most heartening to me was it showed CITIZENS of countries passing out food and water even as their govts lobbed tear gas at groups with children present.


      It's a global crisis and the solution should be a gathering of all nations - not only the EU other stable nations in the world capable of helping - including other muslim countries.

      The destabilization of Syria didn't happen in a vacuum. When you take out dictators and don't replace them with a stable government acceptable to the people....pillars start to fall. The people of Syria begged for help to fight Assad - and we (the world) ignored them. They had no chance of winning without help. Now they flee for their lives. EU and other countries would be foolish to turn these refugees into "enemies" but I think there's a risk of doing just that.

      Those children will grow up - and remember how they were treated - and then what happens in the next generation?
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Those children will grow up - and remember how they were treated -
        That should be carved in granite and put on every government building...in the world.
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