Economic Abyss...Wow!

16 years ago

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the free fall of the U.S. economy

August 9, 2008

This is the fourth of a multipart series on the state of the economy and how we got here.

Let's talk about evil. The evil I'm talking about is not just the $29 billion taxpayer-funded bailout of Bear Stearns, about which I have previously written. It's not the billions of dollars that are now being lent from the Fed's "discount window" to Wall Street's broker-dealer community—those like Merrill Lynch, UBS, Morgan Stanley and Lehman Brothers—on a daily basis. It's not even such banks as Citigroup, Bank of America, Wachovia and IndyMac that lent recklessly during the subprime era and are also borrowing heavily just to keep afloat during the current credit crisis. And really, it's not the recent bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that the U.S. Budget Office conservatively estimates will cost taxpayers $25 billion to $30 billion.

No, the evil I'm talking about is the evil that lies buried in one paragraph of the 694-page housing bill that was passed by Congress and signed by President Bush last week. It is the evil of a monstrous national debt, some $10.615 trillion, authorized in Section 3083 of that bill called "Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt." The 10 zeroes found in $10.615 trillion represents an increase of $800 billion, and the first time the limit on the government's credit card has grown to 14 digits.

But the real evil—an evil that underlies even the evil of our national debt—is the attitude of the Bush administration illustrated in what Dick Cheney said to former secretary of the treasury Paul O'Neill during a Cabinet meeting on Jan. 19, 2004. "Deficits," he dismissed, "don't matter."

It is the evil of the fall of America, as we lose our leadership position in the global marketplace. It is the evil of the fall of a once great nation—under God, with liberty and justice for all—as the dollar collapses and our trading partners lose confidence in the United States to pay its bills and honor its agreements.

Hoping to stretch a safety net under hundreds of thousands of families losing their homes to foreclosure is not such a bad thing, right? Trying to limit the shock waves in credit markets as they ripple from the housing sector all across the American economy and the world financial system is not such a bad thing, right?

Well, the answer is yes. And no. As usual, it kind of depends on with whom you speak. During the week of July 28, I attended six D. C. press conferences as politicos rolled out their plans for the housing bill.

"The bill will make a big difference not only in the housing market, but also in the entire economy," said Sen. Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader. The White House agreed in a rare show of bipartisan agreement. "It's good that the Democratic Congress has finally acted," said Tony Fratto, the deputy White House press secretary.

This is all true.

As many as 400,000 Americans families will be saved from foreclosure in the near future. Up to $300 billion will be available in refinanced mortgages to help borrowers at risk of losing their homes by trading in "unaffordable" mortgages for mortgages backed by the government. Also, there will be grants of $4 billion to local governments to buy and refurbish properties that have already been foreclosed upon, and in many cases, also abandoned.

There will be loan limits on reverse mortgages, popular with many senior citizens, and the maximum fees that lenders can charge seniors on these mortgages will also be reduced. First-time buyers who purchase homes from April 9, 2008, to July 1, 2009, will be eligible for a tax credit of $7,500. There will be new housing tax benefits for veterans, too. And of course, there are also tax breaks for homebuilders and other large corporations.

For all consumers—not just past homebuyers—there will be new laws requiring fuller disclosure and clear language used in variable-rate mortgage contracts. And there will be stricter broker oversight. New minimum standards will be set for licensing mortgage brokers and bank loan officers. And the Feds will authorize state and local housing agencies to issue up to $11 billion in tax-exempt bonds to refinance bad mortgages not eligible in any other program.

Almost unnoticed in the bill is a small provision for creating a permanent affordable housing trust fund, with the long-term goal of building more rental housing for people too poor to buy homes. (Why didn't anybody think of this first, before all the subprime borrowers were preyed upon and lent to?)

This all sounds good. So what's the problem?

Here's the problem. The housing bill just signed by the president is the latest in a series of extraordinary interventions by the Bush administration, Congress and the Federal Reserve to bail Wall Street out. And it gives broad—and unprecedented— authority to the Treasury Department.

On the surface, the bill looks good. It safeguards two mortgage finance giants, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, by presumably spending only a few billion to prevent the collapse of the two companies which own or guarantee half of the nation's $12 trillion in mortgages. Look more closely and you'll see two corporations controlled by Wall Street's robber barons, and used by them as their personal Speed Queen heavy-duty, industrial money-laundering machines.

Look even more closely and you'll see the little-noticed Section 3083. You see a national debt ceiling raised by $800 billion, because we are blackmailed into thinking our economy will collapse if we don't raise it. Imagine that $800 billion spent on our nation's schools, healthcare or decaying infrastructure. Imagine an $800 billion investment in alternative energy and our nation's energy independence.

Again, remember that this bailout insures up to $300 billion in refinanced mortgages. The remainder—$500 billion—could conceivably be spent on other bailouts that loom ahead.

Even Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson, the architect of the rescue plan, said he never expected to be given this much new authority. The only real limit on his spending is the new $10.615 trillion debt ceiling.

Critics in Congress who voted against the bill voiced concern that we were rewarding Wall Street's greed. They argued that we, as a nation, were rewarding predatory lending practices. They argued that we were rewarding massive fraud. They specifically argued that the housing bill bails out the banks and broker-dealers that are joined at the hip with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac through the trillions and trillions of dollars of those bogus insurance policies against default called credit-default swaps.

Finally, critics in Congress were outraged we were rewarding lobbyists—lobbyists hired by the fat cat executives at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—at a cost to taxpayers of tens of millions of dollars. Yes, you, the taxpayer, paid for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's lobbyists for this bill. How's that for adding insult to injury!

"This bill has fallen prey to the special interests on Wall Street and K Street at unjustifiable expenses to taxpayers and homeowners on Main Street," said Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, who voted against the bill even though he had worked on many of its tax provisions in committee.

"The bill should have barred the mortgage companies from spending millions to lobby Congress to raise our national debt," said Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C.

A look at the history books shows that there is no precedent for this bailout. Not the 1989 response to the savings and loan crisis. Not even the creation of the Home Owners' Loan Corporation in 1933 that was part of the New Deal. There's also no precedent for this national debt. Yet no one seems worried.

During the week I spent in Washington reporting this story, I have concluded that we are a nation of disinterested and mostly happy bystanders. Polling data tells us this much: As long as our paychecks clear every two weeks, we are happy. As long as our beer is cold, we are happy. As long as we have a warm puppy to hold, we are happy. As long as we can fill up our Chevy Mastodons, we are happy. As long as we have HBO and Showtime, we are happy. As long as we are not foreclosed upon and homeless, we are happy.

A $10.615 trillion national debt is more than we want to think about. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are also more than we want to think about. We like to think of the United States as a participatory democracy It is—but only in theory. Participatory democracy is for the disgruntled and for kooks.

This is what we're not told: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not essential to the mortgage market. If they were phased out over five or 10 years, the market would absorb the business they left behind. That's the way competitive markets work. Fannie and Freddie exist only to guarantee debt-backed securities, like CMOs, CDOs and SIVs.

These are securities that were underwritten by the robber barons of Wall Street and that were pushed by the new master race on Wall Street—the prime brokers working in the shadow banking system—and that are now held by chumps who were lied to: pension plans, insurance companies, mutual funds, hedge funds and other institutional holders.

Fannie and Freddie were only in the insurance business, a business now corrupted by credit-default swaps and other swaps and derivatives, things that didn't exist 10 years ago. So why bail out Fannie and Freddie? And why give them special advantages that suppress competition?

Because Fannie and Freddie spent more than $170 million for lobbyists in the last decade, more than what our No. 1 defense contractor, General Electric, spent.

Because senior executives at Fannie and Freddie get annual pay packages that they don't want to lose. In 2007, Freddie Mac paid chairman and CEO Richard Syron $19.8 million, even though the company's stock lost half its value. Meanwhile, at Fannie Mae, president and CEO Daniel Mudd got a 7 percent raise. Total compensation: $13.4 million, including a $5.4 million stock award. Again, the mortgage company lost billions during 2007.

Other government agencies can't hire lobbyists or award exorbitant CEO bonuses, so why Fannie and Freddie? Because Wall Street's balance sheets are too inextricably linked to Fannie and Freddie. As the stock prices of Fannie and Freddie go, so does much of Wall Street.

But mainly because other federal bailouts are looming on the horizon. William Poole of the Cato Institute, a chief executive at the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis from 1998 to 2008, said last week, "Congressional inaction and taxpayer indifference over the last 15 years has committed us to a generation of bailouts."

With a debt ceiling of $10.615 trillion, our children, and our children's children, will be paying the price. And this is evil. We have mortgaged their futures.

I am deeply ashamed of my generation's apathy and willful ignorance. Here and now, I apologize to my children and any future grandchildren for blowing it.

It's too late to get out of the bailout business. Too late. The stock and bond markets sank. Treasury securities sank. The dollar sank. The national economy sank. The world economy sank.

In my generation, everything sank.

We may be a nation of the stupidly happy, but at this time in our history I am reminded of Pablo Neruda's "Song of Despair": "You swallowed everything, like distance. / Like the sea, like time. In you, everything sank."

At the Group of Seven (G7) conference in Tokyo this year, Gilles Moec, chief economist for Bank America London, said it all. "The problems are going through financial markets in all parts of the world, right now. There's not much we can do about it—not the G7, not anybody. The danger is that a real depression will turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy."

Peter Spencer, of Ernst & Young and a former top British Treasury official agreed. "The coming crash in the United States is something that will simply have to play itself out. To think it all could have been avoided is sad."

Sad? Yes. Evil? That, too.

John Sakowicz is a Sonoma County investor who was a cofounder of a multibillion-dollar offshore hedge fund, Battle Mountain Research Group. Ryan Morris assisted with research for this article.

News & Culture in The North Bay | Free Fall of the U.S. economy

Indy

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HaveFaith 16 years ago

This is a very good read, and fuel for the fire for those who wish to fight back, and help our country and people through the gigantic storm that is coming...

Have Faith
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Tiger

16 years ago

Originally Posted by greymatrixx

Peter Spencer, of Ernst & Young and a former top British Treasury official agreed. "The coming crash in the United States is something that will simply have to play itself out. To think it all could have been avoided is sad."

Ronald Reagan said that great countries that go off the
gold standard do not stay great for long.

Its too bad people did not listen to him.

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ConcordeWarrior 16 years ago

Chancellor Alistair Darling warns slump could be the worst for 60 years

Video: Chancellor Alistair Darling warns slump could be the worst for 60 years - Times Online

Britain could be heading for its worst economic downturn for 60 years and voters are fed up with Labour because ministers have failed to explain its central mission, Alistair Darling has said.

The normally cautious Chancellor has given by far his most explicit warning both of the problems lying ahead and of the reasons behind Labour's current plight. Mr Darling's Pre-Budget Report in the autumn is regarded as crucial to any hope of a Labour recovery, and he has been closely involved in a series of economic rescue packages that will be made public over the next three weeks.

He has been arguing for some time that a struggling economy is the true reason why Gordon Brown is finding it hard to lift Labour from its opinion poll lows, and has clearly decided that frankness with the electorate is the best way of explaining the current difficulties. There have been suggestions that Mr Darling might be moved in an imminent reshuffle, but The Times understands that that is unlikely to happen.

In an interview with The Guardian Mr Darling says that the slowdown will be "more profound and long-lasting" than people had expected.
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- greymatrixx 16 years ago
  
  "If you stop and listen, that whistling noise you can hear is the air rushing passed your ears as we plunge into the abyss of a financial catastrophe unparalleled in human existence"...
  
  The current state of play..Indy
  
  Guarantees Are Worthless, When the System Is Bankrupt
  29 Aug 2008
  
  Guarantees Are Worthless, When the System Is Bankrupt
  by John Hoefle
  
  While the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) has gone to great lengths to assure the public that their bank deposits are safe--at least up to the insured limit--it is obvious that the agency lacks the capital required to back up its claims. As long as the FDIC closes only small banks, it can meet its responsibilities, but it does not have the resources to even begin to deal with the magnitude of the crisis it faces.
  
  The same is true of the Federal Reserve, which is running out of room on its balance sheet to continue the escalating bailout process it began last December, and also true of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, whose role as a dump for the toxic waste of the banking system means that they will not survive on their own. All of these players, the FDIC, the Fed, Fannie and Freddie, and others like the Federal Home Loan Banks, can always turn to the Federal Government for cash, but the Federal Government itself is operating at a deficit, already borrowing money to meet its spending requirements. Thus, while there is no shortage of guarantees, none of the players actually has the money it needs to satisfy those guarantees, in anything approaching a worst-case scenario.
  
  The Federal Government, it is assumed, can always borrow more money, but under our current unconstitutional central banking monetary system, it borrows that money by issuing bonds, which are sold through the Fed into the financial markets. That is, it is borrowing money from the very financial markets it is attempting to bail out. One does not have to be a professional economist to spot the flaw in such a scheme (in fact, it appears, the only people who fail to see the glaring flaw in the scheme are professional economists, bankers, and their pet regulators, who have a vested interest in ignoring the obvious).
  
  In the end, whatever the Federal Government does manage to borrow, becomes the obligation of the taxpayers, most of whom are themselves dependent upon borrowed money for their survival, and living in an economy which has been operating below breakeven for some four decades, and falling further behind by the day. Ultimately, the guarantees are worthless, because there is nothing backing them.
  
  Shrinking Delusions
  
  For those who would prefer to believe that the banking system is sound, the FDIC's just-released second-quarter report is not encouraging. For one thing, the net income reported (read: claimed) by FDIC-insured commercial banks and savings institutions was just $5 billion, the second-lowest figure since 1991, and a whopping 87% below the second quarter of 2007. This is not surprising, given the huge losses the banks have been reporting of late, and while we believe that the reported income figures are seriously overstated, the plunge from the consistent $30 billion plus quarters of recent years shows a trend which cannot be ignored. The FDIC also reported a small drop in the total assets of the 8,451 institutions it insured, to $13.30 trillion from $13.37 trillion in the first quarter. Such drops are uncommon--it is the seventh quarterly drop since 1987--but it is also the largest, and a sign of things to come. The asset drop was also accompanied by a small drop in equity capital.
  
  One item which did increase was the notional amount of the banks' derivatives holdings, up $2 trillion to $183 trillion. The vast majority of these derivatives are held by just three banks, J.P. Morgan Chase, Citigroup, and Bank of America, with Morgan alone accounting for nearly half the total.
  
  Reflecting the deterioration of the financial condition of the banks' customer bases, the banks also reported significant jumps in the level of non-current loans and leases, and in net charge-offs of loans. Despite the increase in the amounts of money banks set aside as reserves against losses in their loan portfolios, the increase in non-current loans surpassed the increase in loan-loss reserves for the ninth consecutive quarter. The banks as a group now have just 88.5 cents in reserves for every $1 in non-current loans, the lowest level in 15 years.
  
  These statistics are not important in and of themselves, since the banks are hardly being honest about their true conditions, but they do nevertheless reflect, however understatedly, the descent of the banking system from the fictitious profits of earlier years to an increasingly obvious insolvency. The FDIC raised to 117 from 90 the number of banks on its "problem" list, with a combined $78 billion in assets. The Fed has a secret list of 1,400 troubled banks, and the assets for that list surely run in the trillions. Reality is much worse than the "official" statistics indicate.
  
  All of which brings us bank to the question of deposit insurance. According to the FDIC, its Deposit Insurance Fund held $45 billion in mid-June, against insured deposits of $4.5 trillion. That's about a penny on the dollar. On top of that, the deposits of all FDIC-insured institutions stood at $8.6 trillion as of June 30, meaning that there are another $4.1 trillion of uninsured deposits in the banks. Roughly half of all deposits are uninsured, and the rest are backed by a penny on the dollar. What could possibly go wrong?
  
  Lies and Lehman
  
  The investment banks are also in big trouble. Lehman Brothers, which has been shopping itself around looking for a savior, had proposed to sell a big chunk of itself itself to South Korea's government-owned Korean Development Bank, at a price 50% over book value. KDB chairman Min Euoo-sung, who had been the chief of Lehman's Seoul branch for three years before joining KDB in June, was in favor of the deal, and other Korean bankers saw it as an opportunity to expand their nation's role in the global financial arena. However, the plan was shot down by the government.
  
  "After a review of its [Lehman's] account book, we found that its insolvency was serious," a senior government official stated, according to the Aug. 22 English-language edition of the Chosun Ilbo.
  
  For a government official to publicly admit that a major investment bank is insolvent is extraordinary--and refreshingly honest!--but clearly, from the standpoint of the international bankers, totally unacceptable. A number of papers carried the Chosun Ilbo story, until Reuters, the British propaganda outlet, issued a false story claiming that KDB was considering buying Lehman anyway. The original story quickly disappeared, replaced by the phony one, which was touted enough to send Lehman's stock soaring. The lie prevailed, at least in the short term, in what was just another day at the office for the spin doctors.
  
  Other Indicators
  
  As we have said repeatedly, there is no financial solution to the current crisis, only political ones. The current financial system has died, and what will replace it is a political question, one which is being fought out before our eyes, even though it is not identified in that way. On the domestic front, there are two significant elements which bear watching: the way in which the Presidential campaigns are being shaped to prevent any FDR-style recovery movement, and the relentless implementation of police-state measures. The development on the foreign front is the revival of the Cold War confrontationist policy against our alleged enemies. Under the Bush/Cheney regime it was the specter of "terrorists" everywhere, a specter now being replaced by the Russians. Behind it all lay the British puppetmasters, determined to manipulate America once again into a self-destructive, and self-defeating, stupidity.
  
  The closer we get to the final, open disintegration of the financial system--the day the banks don't open, the day the economy stops--the louder the British brainwashing will be. The volume of the lies, financial, political, and military/security, is itself one of the best economic indicators we have. Don't think, be terrified, and let the "experts" decide your future. That's the plan, and it will work, unless we stop it.
  
  Guarantees Are Worthless, When the System Is Bankrupt
  
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  myob 16 years ago
  
  I think we should be able to at least get through 2012. By then the world will be destroyed and none of this BS will even matter anymore. Guns anyone?
  
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  Indiana Banned 16 years ago
  
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  myob 16 years ago
  
  I can't wait until they all collapse. Their fees are too high. It's about time we had a change.
  
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Indiana

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Indiana

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Indiana

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myob

16 years ago

So who is watching the store in France? The French government continues to own shares in corporations in a range of sectors, including banking, energy production and distribution, automobiles, transportation, and telecommunications. France exports great quantities of weaponry to the Middle East including Iran. And in recent years, the French government has repeatedly called for the lifting of the EU weapons trade embargo against China.

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HeySal 16 years ago

Actually - we can't pay off the debt that way because all we are paying is the INTEREST. Figure it out -- we have a debt. What is the lien on the damned thing? It's American land. The only way to reduce the debt and pay it off is for people to start buying the simple surface rights and water rights to their property - which goes straight to the principle, actually having the effect of cutting the interest.

Or we could just tell the FED that WE didn't agree to this and WE are sick of being held hostage by an agreement that included stolen property. Receiving stolen property is illegal and so is putting something that isn't YOURS on a lien for money YOU borrow. Can you use your neighbors car for a lien for a loan? I don't think so. Our government used OUR land for a lien on a loan - the loan is invalid, illegal, and we should just tell them to F*** off or we will sue them for every cent they ever extorted from us.
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When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path
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Mike Wright

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

So who is watching the store in France? The French government continues to own shares in corporations in a range of sectors, including banking, energy production and distribution, automobiles, transportation, and telecommunications. France exports great quantities of weaponry to the Middle East including Iran. And in recent years, the French government has repeatedly called for the lifting of the EU weapons trade embargo against China.

France is basically socialist Paul ... so State ownership or part ownership
of essentiall industry or infrastructure is par for the course. The French
and their trade unions take to the streets when things get out of line
for them and government policy usually then gets modified. Sarkozy
seems to be too much of a friend to the Bush administration for the
comfort of many. There are many similarities with the UK. A growing
number of people in the UK are extremely concerned at the mess Blair's
jumping on the New Labour/NeoCon/US style of government and policies.
Gordon Brown's balls are in the crusher at the moment over these issues
as many in Parliament and the Trades unions are seeking a return to
more traditional (old/socialist) Labour values where people mattered
as much or more than business. Yes, we sell arms to everybody just
like France,the US, Israel, Russia, China to name a few.

Lots of things have got worse since being sold a hefty discounts from
Public/taxpayers ownership to greedy and often foreign investors. So,
now things cost three times as much with about 1/3 of the value or
service compared with previously. As for the £billions squandered in
contracts for services formerly done in-house ... beggars belief!!
I am old enough to remember when the trains all ran dead on time
and the track and rolling stock was meticulously maintained. Not
so these post-privatisation days. People are beginning to realise that
many things were sensible in the "bad old days"!

I guess that it is hard for many Americans to appreciate the people
benefits of socialism. Hey ho ...

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Michael Chris 16 years ago

Indy / Greymatrixx

Why do you seem to be posting under two different user names?

Just curious.

Thanks,
Michael
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Internet Business Is Like An Onion... It Has Many Layers... And Sometimes It Stinks.
Cook it for awhile in some nice butter or olive oil and you might be onto something!

Money is Attracted to Movement (aka Action)
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- ThomM 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Michael Chris
  
  Indy / Greymatrixx
  
  Why do you seem to be posting under two different user names?
  
  Just curious.
  
  Thanks,
  Michael
  
  I can answer that one for you Mike.
  When Allen switched to the new forum, Indy like a lot of us had issues logging in under his original username. So he registered again as graymatrix and switched back to indy when he got that issue straightened out.
  
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  Signature
  
  Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
  Getting old ain't for sissy's
  As you are I was, as I am you will be
  You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.
  
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  myob 16 years ago
  
  ... and he has been talking back and forth between himselves on his own thread ever since.
  
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Indiana

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Mike Wright 16 years ago

Bloomberg.com

about says it all
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Indiana

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myob 16 years ago

The feds may bail them out with $85b loan. Hopefully the rest will be allowed to crash and burn in the market. Private sector investors stand to make a whole lotta money when the stock markets recover.
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- myob 16 years ago
  
  Foreign investors flush with cash from the Middle East, Germany, Russia, Asia, and others are ready to pounce on the financial markets and buy premium companys' stocks at bargain basement prices. We should be doing the same.
  
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derekwong28

16 years ago

The money is to be made NOW in making the market collapse rather than to wait for a recovery

There is much more money to be made now by shorting stocks, warrants, futures, derivatives that profit enormously in a collapsing market.

One mechanism is to short stocks of companies like AIG and put the money in their bonds. Once the Feds steps in and takes over that company, you make high money both ways!

It was interesting hearing the CEO of Morgan Stanley acusing other of shorting his stock. Morgan Stanley is one of most feared stock shorters in the market. Now it is having a dose of its own medicine. What poetic justice, what crocodile tears!

By the way, foreign investors are not flush with cash either, because their own stock markets have collapsed far more than Wall street. The Russian stock market iteself is suspended so they can't even get their money out!

If you have lots of money now, I would say that you should short everything and hope everything completely collapses. It is much faster making a fortune that way!

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myob 16 years ago

DOW is up $410.03 today. We made a pretty penny or two. Sold for profits, and we're going to do it again. There ARE investors flush with money ready to jump in.
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Indiana

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myob 16 years ago

Thank you for all your help, Indy. By scaring off other investors, and helping to keep stock prices low, there will be more bargains for me. To ease your concern about my welfare, I am converting my "paper" profits in to real assets by buying up foreclosed houses and real estate at far below historical market value.

Keep up the great work you are doing!
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Indiana

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myob 16 years ago

This is USA Iraq/Afghanistan War, not Germany. We're making money until boomville. Many regards to post WWI Germany farmers.
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Indiana

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Mal Keenan

16 years ago

So, in the type of crash you are envisaging, where does the wealth lie, if anywhere? Is everyone effected, from the dirt poor up to the obscenely wealthy - wealthy by todays standards?

Originally Posted by Indiana

Money????....You mean "paper" or... "Virtual"... Property = dimminshing returns...WAmu has no cash left...ATM machines "NO cash"....Paychecks...Wait three days for funds....Boomville...Myob...Indy

PS...GOT EGGS MYOB...-O)

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myob

16 years ago

Foreign investment in the United States is increasing at a dramatic rate. As the amount of foreign investment in the country has grown, requests for information about foreign investment have also escalated. Recently, the Department of Commerce has received a flurry of requests on the subject.

Most questions concern the extent of foreign investment in the United States, U.S. laws regarding foreign investment, reporting requirements, and publications dealing with current and historical issues concerning foreign investment in the United States.

These requests are coming from from China, India, Japan, France, UK, Saudi Arabia, Canada, Germany, Italy, Ireland. What do they know? Are they getting it cheap because Americans are too afraid to invest? What or who is causing this fear among Americans to invest in their own economy? Does Casper the Friendly Ghost know the answer? Does anyone care to "speculate"?

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HeySal

16 years ago

MYOB - most Americans are living hand to mouth and barely able to cover their bills right now - how can a person invest when it means taking food off of the table? I am glad for you that you are able to take advantage of the current economy -how do you think you are able to do that? - Most of your fellow country folk are losing those houses you are investing in right now is how. Hundreds and thousands of jobs are being lost right now. People by the thousands just got wiped out in Hurricanes. It is hard for a person with no income to plan for the future. Being able to get through the day is what most families call success at this moment. And it isn't going to get better for them any time soon.

You might be enjoying the whole kabootle, but it sounds very insensitive to the people who are hungry and awaiting aid for disaster intervention to hear you bragging about how much money you are racking up right now. Perhaps you would like to brag about how much you just donated to the Red Cross to help those who just watched their homes and businesses being blown away by Ike instead of how you are lining your pocket on the misfortune of the rest?

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I am glad for you that you are able to take advantage of the current economy -how do you think you are able to do that? - Most of your fellow country folk are losing those houses you are investing in right now is how.

You might be enjoying the whole kabootle, but it sounds very insensitive to the people who are hungry and awaiting aid for disaster intervention to hear you bragging about how much money you are racking up right now. Perhaps you would like to brag about how much you just donated to the Red Cross to help those who just watched their homes and businesses being blown away by Ike instead of how you are lining your pocket on the misfortune of the rest?

Why are people losing there houses?

Maybe becuase many people (and banks) made bad decisions on loans. People got into homes they COULD NOT afford and thought they would be able to refinance or sell the home.

By investing in foreclosures- we are actually HELPING the banks get rid of liabilities. These bank foreclosures that are on the market NEED to be sold. A house is a liablitly to a bank. We are actually HELPING the banks, by buying up the property at disconunted rates. Does that make sense?

For the people and banks who made these bad decisions, I have no sympathy for them. Sure, some people got into illegal loans, but a lot were just bad decisions.

I don't think anyone needs to feel bad for making money during bad times, because if you were smart, you would be too. Even during good times in the US- should we feel bad about making money when the rest of the world can't feed themselves or doesn't even have a dollar to their name?

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ThomM

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer

Why are people losing there houses?

Maybe becuase many people (and banks) made bad decisions on loans. People got into homes they COULD NOT afford and thought they would be able to refinance or sell the home.

By investing in foreclosures- we are actually HELPING the banks get rid of liabilities. These bank foreclosures that are on the market NEED to be sold. A house is a liablitly to a bank. We are actually HELPING the banks, by buying up the property at disconunted rates. Does that make sense?

For the people and banks who made these bad decisions, I have no sympathy for them. Sure, some people got into illegal loans, but a lot were just bad decisions.

I don't think anyone needs to feel bad for making money during bad times, because if you were smart, you would be too. Even during good times in the US- should we feel bad about making money when the rest of the world can't feed themselves or doesn't even have a dollar to their name?

You're only hearing about those on the news.
What about those who have fixed rate mortgages who lost their jobs?
Unemployment is on the rise and many people are now losing their houses and being thrown our of their apartments because of it.
Not to mention the raising costs of, well, everything.
If you're taking home 1,200 a week and get let go, on unemployment you may get 600 max. If you where earning 600 then it's 300. Could you survive on half of what you earned when gas, food, etc. has gone up.

It is not my nature to brag about all the charities my company participates in as a result of our good fortune.

But it is your nature to brag about all the money you're making at the misfortune of others, man you're a piece of work.

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

You're only hearing about those on the news.
What about those who have fixed rate mortgages who lost their jobs?
Unemployment is on the rise and many people are now losing their houses and being thrown our of their apartments because of it.
Not to mention the raising costs of, well, everything.
If you're taking home 1,200 a week and get let go, on unemployment you may get 600 max. If you where earning 600 then it's 300. Could you survive on half of what you earned when gas, food, etc. has gone up.

What about those who lost there jobs?

Thats what happens when you use a credit system and destroy it, people will lose. Its also what happens when you allow yourself to depend on Corporate America.

People have gotten by in life with out Corporate America and with out a credit system.

What about those millions and millions of starving children across the world? What about those that don't have a dollar in there pocket? What about those that don't even know what unemployment is, because there no such thing as employment? What about those who never even had a chance to make a real living.

We f*cked our own system up. Now we are dealing with it. The fact is (no surprise) rich will get richer and poor will get poorer. The gap will widen- which side do you want to be on?

"But it is your nature to brag about all the money you're making at the misfortune of others, man you're a piece of work."

No one is bragging. Sorry if it makes you feel bad that BILLIONAIRES AND MILLIONAIRES will be made because of a down economy. Its simple actually. Down economy= low prices= high profits.

I give much credit to ANYONE actually using this as an advantage to make money- its smart.

Whos fault is it that we are in this mess?

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MaskedMarketer 16 years ago

Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer

The fact is (no surprise) rich will get richer and poor will get poorer.

To see how the rich still keep there bank accounts in tact- Trump just sold a residential property (highest investment home sold to date) for close to 100 million this past July during the economic downturn.

Also, luxury home spending is still having small increases despite economic downturn. At least a company I used to work for (selling luxury home stuff) is still increasing its profits month after month. From Sept.1-20 they brought in over 4 million and its increasing.

People need to realize we are in a global economy now.

Corporate America is crumbling.
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derekwong28

16 years ago

Exactly as Sal said, MYOB. Why is the only thing you are interested in this situation is unbridled personal greed? There are millions of people in the US and other countries affected of this. Some losing their homes, their jobs and also their savings. Many will become destitute and a few will commit suicide.

Why is it that you are so happy at the prospect of making a lot of money on top of mountain of misery?

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myob

16 years ago

It is not my nature to brag about all the charities my company participates in as a result of our good fortune. I am living the American dream now, but I have known poverty very well while growing up. My heart aches when foreigners gloat about our economic woes and say America is headed towards financial ruin - "boomville" Why there is so much effort and energy expended in spreading this message of doom and gloom makes the motive of messenger suspect.

As an investor, I know fear is often the only reason markets crash, despite other technical indicators to the contrary. Purposely spreading fear in the marketplace is a technique to drive prices down, which is becoming apparent in this and other threads.

There are others besides me who are profiting from this economic crisis. Yes, it is a crisis, but it's not the end of the world. Foreign investors are hovering for market stability, and I expect a "boom" in the financial markets, not "boomville" for the US.

There should be no apologies required for making money, as it can be of benefit to other people and help alleviate the mountain of suffering. What is despicable is those who gloat about this suffering and try to instill fear of a future without hope. This is afterall, the Warrior Forum, where we show others the way to prosperity. Is that so far wrong?

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HeySal

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

It is not my nature to brag about all the charities my company participates in as a result of our good fortune. I am living the American dream now, but I have known poverty very well while growing up. My heart aches when foreigners gloat about our economic woes and say America is headed towards financial ruin - "boomville" Why there is so much effort and energy expended in spreading this message of doom and gloom makes the motive of messenger suspect.

As an investor, I know fear is often the only reason markets crash, despite other technical indicators to the contrary. Purposely spreading fear in the marketplace is a technique to drive prices down, which is becoming apparent in this and other threads.

There are others besides me who are profiting from this economic crisis. Yes, it is a crisis, but it's not the end of the world. Foreign investors are hovering for market stability, and I expect a "boom" in the financial markets, not "boomville" for the US.

There should be no apologies required for making money, as it can be of benefit to other people and help alleviate the mountain of suffering. What is despicable is those who gloat about this suffering and try to instill fear of a future without hope. This is afterall, the Warrior Forum, where we show others the way to prosperity. Is that so far wrong?

No MYOB there are no apologies necessary for making money during a depression - my grandfather got rich during the Great Depression of 1929. It was your tone in wondering why Americans weren't grabbing the gold ring that tweaked me. It just sounded damned arrogant and cold. I would be investing my face off right now if I had the opportunity to do so, but am still recovering from being leveled out myself - and that was not the fault of stupid investing, it was because my brain cells went right through my intestines in my last relationship. Suddenly, the market is ripe and I am still in the seed sprouting stage. Sigh.
If I can catch back up with it all soon, I will be investing, too - and I foresee that now as very possible very shortly. Thank God for small favors.

I am glad to hear that there are humanitarian spendings from your profits - even if they are only tax breaks, some good is coming for others in our nation via your company and right now, that is important. Enjoy your fortune. You are entitled.

If you lost everything you have and had no means of getting it back, could you survive? I know I could.

Been there - done that. Here I am. Still fighting to get it back together, but not dying, either. Even have some good times in the mix. Will I get back in the saddle? Rockefeller was out on the streets at one time and look where he ended up. Sure - I'll get it back to the point of my satisfaction. I'm not the most materialistic person on earth so it won't be a big deal, and probably not the fortune necessary to make others happy. But I don't care what others need to be happy. Gucci isn't my thing.

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Exactly as Sal said, MYOB. Why is the only thing you are interested in this situation is unbridled personal greed? There are millions of people in the US and other countries affected of this. Some losing their homes, their jobs and also their savings. Many will become destitute and a few will commit suicide.

Why is it that you are so happy at the prospect of making a lot of money on top of mountain of misery?

Umm.. How is making money personal greed now? Stop twisting this to make it seem like he is robbing people to get ahead. He's a smart investor playing the situation like many others are.

People are just naturally jealous. Its understandable. If you were smart, you would take myob advice, and invest as well.

Its not his fault or our fault that this situation arised. Blame someone else.

ANY GOOD INVESTOR knows how to profit in GOOD TIMES and BAD TIMES.

People don't get mad when Investors make money in GOOD TIMES, but when someone else is making money during BAD TIMES, everyone gets upset, emotional, and jealous. Its sad actually.

Don't sit there and watch the gap widen, DO SOMETHING and get on the other side. Don't say you weren't warned.

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derekwong28

16 years ago

I am not against wealth creation per se but this is not wealth creation. The wealth is already there, it is just that individuals may be forced to sell these at distressed prices, some of them through no fault of their own.

During the 1997 emerging crisis, the hedge funds came to Asia to engineer financial crashes by speculating against our currencies and stock markets. A lot of people lost their jobs, homes and committed suicides through no fault of their own.

If god forbid, one day you are begging on the streets and Myob comes up in his Rolls-Royce and spit into your begging bowl, you will undertand what I mean.

Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer

Umm.. How is making money personal greed now? Stop twisting this to make it seem like he is robbing people to get ahead. He's a smart investor playing the situation like many others are.

People are just naturally jealous. Its understandable. If you were smart, you would take myob advice, and invest as well.

Its not his fault or our fault that this situation arised. Blame someone else.

ANY GOOD INVESTOR knows how to profit in GOOD TIMES and BAD TIMES.

People don't get mad when Investors make money in GOOD TIMES, but when someone else is making money during BAD TIMES, everyone gets upset, emotional, and jealous. Its sad actually.

Don't sit there and watch the gap widen, DO SOMETHING and get on the other side. Don't say you weren't warned.

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Are you one of those people that think "Money is the root of all evil?"

Listen, if you bought a home with credit, and now can't afford it...Guess what, that's what happens when you use credit! That's why credit is not good if you can't manage it correctly.

Do you know how much consumer debt there is? People obviously can't manage money correctly!

Originally Posted by derekwong28

I am not against wealth creation per se but this is not wealth creation. The wealth is already there, it is just that individuals may be forced to sell these at distressed prices, some of them through no fault of their own.

I would never resort to begging on the streets.

I've already been down in the gutters before. I know how it feels not to have a home to live in. Having to live at friends houses because theres no place to go. Having to sleep in a car because thats all I had. Do you know how it feels?

Since then, I've evolved, but still know how it feels to be in the gutter. Sometimes- unless you've been in the gutter, you don't appreciate life and other tihngs you have in life. Sometimes, in order to get to the top, you have to feel how the bottom is. It can make you stronger. I see failure as a test, but thats me. Normally, you can't be a success if you don't fail.

If there was no other option, I would be smart enough to take my money and live like a KING in another country.

Originally Posted by derekwong28

If god forbid, one day you are begging on the streets and Myob comes up in his Rolls-Royce and spit into your begging bowl, you will undertand what I mean.

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ThomM

16 years ago

Yep it's good the rich like to pass the money back and forth between themselves and screw the little guys who made their wealth possible.
Who do you think built Trumps house, he sure didn't.
He may of supplied the capital but it was the little guys who built it, and I wonder how fast he paid his bills to those guys.

I work for a landscape company and used to own one, in fact I have been in the business for 20 years.
Without fail it has always been the little guy who pays on time and the corporations and rich who don't. Same holds true in other service industries.
They figure it's no big deal cause they have plenty of money, but the reality is it makes it hard on the businesses that they are screwing. Your attitude and MYOB's remind me of them, screw the little guy I got mine.

I hope you guys continue making the big bucks at the expense of others, hell why be part of the solution when you can be part of the problem right?
Just remember Karma and what goes around comes around.

Let me ask you this.
If you lost everything you have and had no means of getting it back, could you survive? I know I could.
The workers of America are the backbone of this country, the rich are located a little farther down.

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Trump doesn't build houses because there is more money in developing. Do you think Construction companies don't bank money? LOL.

Yes, Corporations have conditioned the masses to make them rich, I agree with that. Your also making assumptions saying the rich don't pay there bills on time. Maybe in your situation, but that doesn't hold weight at all.

When did I say screw the little guy? Because someone KNOWS HOW to profit during a bad economy, thats screwing the little guy? Are you serious about that?

I'm not even making the big bucks (at all) and this is the way I view it. And I AM part of the solution- our plan is to help banks liquidate there properties. Yup, win/win situation. Can't that be possible?

Do you think by helping banks I'm not helping the situation? Because I am.

Sorry you can't see that.

If you lost everything, how do you know you could survive? Have you done it already like I have? Stop assuming stuff.

My personal opinion is, becoming an entrepreneur is one of the safest bets now. Your Corporate America is falling apart and if you still want to be a part of it, then do so at your own risk. You can be gone at any moment.

Originally Posted by ThomM

Yep it's good the rich like to pass the money back and forth between themselves and screw the little guys who made their wealth possible.
Who do you think built Trumps house, he sure didn't.
He may of supplied the capital but it was the little guys who built it, and I wonder how fast he paid his bills to those guys.

I work for a landscape company and used to own one, in fact I have been in the business for 20 years.
Without fail it has always been the little guy who pays on time and the corporations and rich who don't. Same holds true in other service industries.
They figure it's no big deal cause they have plenty of money, but the reality is it makes it hard on the businesses that they are screwing. Your attitude and MYOB's remind me of them, screw the little guy I got mine.

I hope you guys continue making the big bucks at the expense of others, hell why be part of the solution when you can be part of the problem right?
Just remember Karma and what goes around comes around.

Let me ask you this.
If you lost everything you have and had no means of getting it back, could you survive? I know I could.
The workers of America are the backbone of this country, the rich are located a little farther down.

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ThomM

16 years ago

Yes, Corporations have conditioned the masses to make them rich, I agree with that. Your also making assumptions saying the rich don't pay there bills on time. Maybe in your situation, but that doesn't hold weight at all.

That's not just my situation, but it's the same with many small companies in the service industry. A good friend owns a carpet business and stopped doing business with his biggest clients (corporations and wealthy) because they redused to pay on time and had the attitude of "what are you going to do about it, we'll find someone else to screw, I mean do the work".
Same holds true with every other business owner I know in the service industry.

If you lost everything, how do you know you could survive? Have you done it already like I have? Stop assuming stuff.

If you're going to quote me, don't change my words.
Original quote:

If you lost everything you have and had no means of getting it back, could you survive? I know I could.

I didn't assume anything I asked a simple question.

My personal opinion is, becoming an entrepreneur is one of the safest bets now. Your Corporate America is falling apart and if you still want to be a part of it, then do so at your own risk. You can be gone at any moment.

And where did I say I was a part of Corporate America and/or still want to be a part of it. You really don't know me or anything about me, except what I choose to tell you. So I think you ought to stop assuming.

You can be gone at any moment.

And you think you can't?

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MaskedMarketer 16 years ago

This may or may not be true and since that wasn't the main topic of the discussion, I really don't care if its true. If the businesses can actually afford to pay you, then they should. If they can't for some reason, then thats understandable to. I don't think anyone deserves to get "screwed" though.

By defending the "little guy" who does work for corporate america, I did group you with them. Maybe I could have re-worded that, but you don't think corporate america is falling apart?

By corporate america falling apart, there is opportunity to make money, and you don't seem to agree with that?

"And you think you can't?" - This is assuming I work for corporate america.

If I did work for corporate america, why would I not think I could be gone at any moment? I did make that statement. And I know its true. So should you.
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myob

16 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

If god forbid, one day you are begging on the streets and Myob comes up in his Rolls-Royce and spit into your begging bowl, you will undertand what I mean.

You have missed my intentions, and far more gravely you have missed the intentions of greymatrixx. I do not even have a Rolls-Royce, nor have I seen anyone wandering the streets with a begging bowl. If I did, I would stuff that begging bowl with cash, as I do with my charitable causes. I am very blessed and am well aware that with privilege comes a responsibility to assist others along the way.

My intentions in posting my transactions was not to brag, but to counter the hopelessness of the future postulated by greymatrixx aka Indiana. Read his posts, then read mine again. If a stranger had such an interest in your child wouldn't you be concerned? I would tend to suspect this is a child molester with prurient interests in my child. Why is he trying to continually tell us how bad the economy is?

Let me tell you something about investors, my friends. Some of us make a lot of money just from the fear people have. When people are afraid, they don't buy, they don't invest and prices in stocks and financials spiral down. Precious metals shoot up (like gold now is near an all-time high). There are people making money because you are afraid.

Now, why do you think greymatrixx has such a great interest in the United States? Do you think he really gives a shit if there really is an Economic Abyss in the United States? He is spending a lot of time and effort to generate fear in the economy. Why? To drive down stocks and drive up precious metals. You can bet he and his cronies are making a killing because Americans are afraid to invest in their own economy. I know many wealthy individuals who are holding back only because of their fear and uncertainty.

Meanwhile, foreign investors are buying up US companies and real estate. Why? Because it is a bargain now and they all know it. There are many vultures waiting in the wings for even lower prices. I am just one of many. My friends, there is hope for the future, and we have come out of other crisis with a robust rebound.

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ThomM

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

You have missed my intentions, and far more gravely you have missed the intentions of greymatrixx. I do not even have a Rolls-Royce, nor have I seen anyone wandering the streets with a begging bowl. If I did, I would stuff that begging bowl with cash, as I do with my charitable causes. I am very blessed and am well aware that with privilege comes a responsibility to assist others along the way.

My intentions in posting my transactions was not to brag, but to counter the hopelessness of the future postulated by greymatrixx aka Indiana. Read his posts, then read mine again. If a stranger had such an interest in your child wouldn't you be concerned? I would tend to suspect this is a child molester with prurient interests in my child. Why is he trying to continually tell us how bad the economy is?

Let me tell you something about investors, my friends. Some of us make a lot of money just from the fear people have. When people are afraid, they don't buy, they don't invest and prices in stocks and financials spiral down. Precious metals shoot up (like gold now is near an all-time high). There are people making money because you are afraid.

Now, why do you think greymatrixx has such a great interest in the United States? Do you think he really gives a shit if there really is an Economic Abyss in the United States? He is spending a lot of time and effort to generate fear in the economy. Why? To drive down stocks and drive up precious metals. You can bet he and his cronies are making a killing because Americans are afraid to invest in their own economy. I know many wealthy individuals who are holding back only because of their fear and uncertainty.

Meanwhile, foreign investors are buying up US companies and real estate. Why? Because it is a bargain now and they all know it. There are many vultures waiting in the wings for even lower prices. I am just one of many. My friends, there is hope for the future, and we have come out of other crisis with a robust rebound.

I agree with the Masked Man that is a good post, sure does clear things up about where you're coming from

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valerieSONORA

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

I do not even have a Rolls-Royce, nor have I seen anyone wandering the streets with a begging bowl. If I did, I would stuff that begging bowl with cash, as I do with my charitable causes. I am very blessed and am well aware that with privilege comes a responsibility to assist others along the way.

LOL I am going to get the biggest bowl I can find and head to Californ-i-a.

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Paul1234 16 years ago

Obama will be there with a bowl as well - he also wants change.
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myob 16 years ago

Originally Posted by annoyedgirl

LOL I am going to get the biggest bowl I can find and head to Californ-i-a.

I'll fill your bowl, but the gas is on you!
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derekwong28

16 years ago

"foreigners gloat about our economic woes and say America is headed towards financial ruin"

For the record, you are completely wrong on this front. Why don't you look at the other stock indexes around the world and see how they have compared to the US. e.g. China down 70% off peak, Hong Kong 40% off peak. You will find the US is well near the top as far as performance is concerned. A number of European countries at now near recession, not the US. The same goes for Japan, Australia, New Zealand and a large no. of emerging economies.

The fact that you are trying to make tons of money off foreclosed property means you really want to profit from untold personal misery. There are quite a few warriors whose houses are in or at risk of foreclosure. Just think how they would feel when they see a thread like this? Just how many people you want to die in order to feed your greed is between you and your god.

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Good post myob.

Fear and uncertainty can drive the market. And lots of people have fear and uncertainty now.

Good luck with your investing myob. Maybe we can be honored enough to learn something from you

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HeySal 16 years ago

MYOB - you are making investments left and right. I have a question about the security of those investments. Are you buying simple surface and water rights with these investments? I think it would be wise to make sure that those are included or your investments. Owning a home doesn't do much good if someone can walk in on top of you and purchase your surface and water rights.
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- MaskedMarketer 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by HeySal
  
  Owning a home doesn't do much good if someone can walk in on top of you and purchase your surface and water rights.
  
  Is that fear and uncertainty speaking?
  
  Whats the percentage that, that can happen to you?
  
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myob

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer

Good post myob.

Fear and uncertainty can drive the market. And lots of people have fear and uncertainty now.

Good luck with your investing myob. Maybe we can be honored enough to learn something from you

I have already said - invest in the stock market if you can. There some great companies that have had historically high prices, but now are bargains only because of fear.

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Dave Patterson

16 years ago

Indiana - the One-Man US Economy Wrecking Crew.....

LOL!!!!

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Professional Googler

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myob 16 years ago

Mon ami Indy: France is tied with Germany, Japan, and the Netherlands as the second largest investors in the US. I know you're getting some great deals here.
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Indiana

Banned 16 years ago

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myob

16 years ago

US - French commercial transactions total almost $1billion USD per DAY. There are 2,300 French companies in the US and growing. The US is in the top destination of French investments worldwide, and vice versa. So why the fear-mongering? ... God bless us all my friend.

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HeySal

16 years ago

LOL -- God bless us all? WTF - did I just walk into the final curtain of a Christmas Carol?

Masked Marketer - not fear, common sense. If corporations want your land, or they suspect minerals on your land they can, will, and often do buy out the mineral rights - and if you own the simple surface rights, you have the control. If you don't own these rights, you have no control over what happens around your home on what you thought was your own property. Those rights also pay the principle on the Nat'l Debt. Every thing else is just ponzi money toward growing interest.

Laugh - I lived in gold country and know people this happened to. I imagine it happens in oil and uranium territory, too. My aunt had an oil company come in and ask to drill - and she had the control only because she had purchased the surface rights.
Not fear mongering at all - It was a fair question as I have never invested in the real estate market at the stock level. I don't know if they are just flipping houses, etc - or if they actually are investing in real estate (undeveloped as well as developed) with all rights purchased.

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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myob

16 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

LOL -- God bless us all? WTF - did I just walk into the final curtain of a Christmas Carol?

It's God bless us everyone.

All my dreams will come true somehow
even though we have little
God Bless Us Everyone

God Bless Us Everyone
On this Beautiful christmas morning
all my dreams will Be real somewhere
I smile when I think
God Bless Us Everyone

I think Indy has just earned his angel wings! A messenger from heaven to warn us of impending danger. Did you hear that closing bell tinkle? That's when an angel gets his wings!

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HeySal

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

It's God bless us everyone.

All my dreams will come true somehow
even though we have little
God Bless Us Everyone

God Bless Us Everyone
On this Beautiful christmas morning
all my dreams will Be real somewhere
I smile when I think
God Bless Us Everyone

I think Indy has just earned his angel wings! A messenger from heaven to warn us of impending danger. Did you hear that closing bell tinkle? That's when an angel gets his wings!

By damned yes...It's a wonderful Life! The only thing I have seen Indy guilty of is two lights in the tower and we are already here with them...uh....oh crap.

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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Indiana

Banned 16 years ago

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Paul1234 16 years ago

Digg - Taxpayers Mad As Hell, And Not Going to Take This Anymore

We're not gonna take it
We ain't gonna take it
We're not gonna take it anymore
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Paul Turner
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valerieSONORA

16 years ago

I have another solution for the debt problem the government has and this time it's not printing out money. All pedophiles and cold blooded murderers should be executed on the spot. Then billions will be saved a year in housing them, clothing them, transporting, free medical care, court costs. feeding them etc etc.

And I'm transferring all my paper money into nonperishable food and goats

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Indiana

Banned 16 years ago

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myob

16 years ago

Goldman Sachs sells $5 billion shares in addition to Warren Buffett's $5 billion investment.

Did you buy any shares yet?

US taxpayers are funding the world's biggest begger bowl. Buy shares now in prime companies, because the stock market will rise sharply. You can take that to the bank.

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valerieSONORA

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

Goldman Sachs sells $5 billion shares in addition to Warren Buffett's $5 billion investment.

Did you buy any shares yet?

US taxpayers are funding the world's biggest begger bowl. Buy shares now in prime companies, because the stock market will rise sharply. You can take that to the bank.

Fill up my big beggin bowl and I'll invest properly. However I can't make it to Californ-i-a right now so I'll just mail the beggin bowl.

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myob 16 years ago

Originally Posted by annoyedgirl

Fill up my big beggin bowl and I'll invest properly. However I can't make it to Californ-i-a right now so I'll just mail the beggin bowl.

OK, here's the deal. I made so much money today in the stockmarket, I'm willing to spread the wealth. Anyone who contributes to a charity (in Los Angeles County CA only), my company will match the contribution dollar for dollar for up to $10,000. The only restrictions are it must be an IRS-recognized charity and must be in LA County.

Mail-in begging bowls not accepted.
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Indiana

Banned 16 years ago

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Mike Wright 16 years ago

Does anyone actually know what planet the Shrub inhabits?

Did Bush, his advisors, Bernanke and Paulson actually
believe that a TV speech to America urging more like
a $trillion bailout of Big Money by taxpayers would be
convincing coming from an idiot who caused and/or
allowed this catastophe to happen on his watch....
amongst all the other disasters he has created globally.

Beggars belief .... doh!

Bail-out 'vital to easing crisis'

BBC NEWS | Americas | Bail-out 'vital to easing crisis'
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- Paul1234 16 years ago
  
  I wouldn't be surprised if Bush hasn't already written yet another Executive Order, this time to overrule Congress in the event this $700B doesn't get passed.
  
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  Mike Wright 16 years ago
  
  Washington diary: Campaign in flux
  
  BBC NEWS | Programmes | World News America | Washington diary: Campaign in flux
  
  It all seems to be going "pear-shaped" big time
  
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  Paul1234 16 years ago
  
  Another expenditure (but it's only $612 billion this time):
  
  House clears huge defense bill, sends it to Senate - BostonHerald.com
  
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  Paul Turner
  
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Indiana

Banned 16 years ago

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Patrician

16 years ago

cool and hopefully they will stop selling us all their cheap junk, leaded toys and poisoned milk products. maybe if we could have some of industries back we wouldn't need their loans. splintering toothpicks, anyone?

Originally Posted by Indiana

Damage limitation...
How many other counties will follow suite ???...Indy

China banks told to halt lending to US banks-SCMP
Quote

BEIJING, Sept 25 (Reuters) - Chinese regulators have told domestic banks to stop interbank lending to U.S. financial institutions to prevent possible losses during the financial crisis, the South China Morning Post reported on Thursday.

The Hong Kong newspaper cited unidentified industry sources as saying the instruction from the China Banking Regulatory Commission (CBRC) applied to interbank lending of all currencies to U.S. banks but not to banks from other countries.

"The decree appears to be Beijing's first attempt to erect defences against the deepening U.S. financial meltdown after the mainland's major lenders reported billions of U.S. dollars in exposure to the credit crisis," the SCMP said.

A spokesman for the CBRC had no immediate comment. (Reporting by Alan Wheatley and Langi Chiang; editing by Ken Wills)

© Thomson Reuters 2008 All rights reserved

Fair use rule...Indy

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valerieSONORA

16 years ago

Well I will have to find another use for my big begging bowl. Might use it for salad or something.

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myob 16 years ago

Originally Posted by annoyedgirl

Well I will have to find another use for my big begging bowl. Might use it for salad or something.

Is that the one that derekwong28 had? If it is, don't use it for your salad, because I think that is the one I spit in.
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Indiana

Banned 16 years ago

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Indiana Banned 16 years ago

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- myob 16 years ago
  
  $700 billion is nowhere near enough needed, and will only postpone the inevitable coming depression. We can recover without the "bailout", by just letting marketing forces work. It will be painful for awhile, but there is no need to postpone the inescapable market correction any longer. So, quit your whining and lets just this over with so we can move on.
  
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Indiana

Banned 16 years ago

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Indiana Banned 16 years ago

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Economic Abyss...Wow!

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