Boy gets mauled to death 6 days before his 6th birthday

9 years ago

It's interesting how everyone who I've seen mention this event add the "6 days from sixth birthday" just to add the extra emotion even though it has nothing to do with what happened with the dogs.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by dmaster555

It's interesting how everyone who I've seen mention this event add the "6 days from sixth birthday" just to add the extra emotion even though it has nothing to do with what happened with the dogs.

Well, maybe because it is extremely emotional and maybe hitting a birthday is a HUGE deal for children at this age.And maybe its a glorious time in their Lives and it consumes every aspect of their Lives particularly just days before this special day comes!

Did you ever consider that as a reason?

My children are 5 and 6.
And 2 months ago I started hearing from my 5 year old everyday, "daddy, how many more days till I turn 6 "

My reply "Well, honey only 173 days to go" ( feb 13th lol)

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

If you have a Pit Bull and you mistreat it to a degree that it viciously kills an innocent child

Do I hear the stirring of a pot??

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Do I hear the stirring of a pot??

Actually for once I was being a "softie" on the PETA people here tonight and rightfully deferring the punishment to the humans/owners who make the dogs act this way

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Actually for once I was being a "softie" on the PETA people here tonight and rightfully deferring the punishment to the humans/owners who make the dogs act this way

So in other words - Yes.However since I don't give a rip about the PETA people I will assist. We have had a strict policy about Pit Bulls and a few other breeds around our children and consider anyone that has young children and doesn't to be silly.

A) they are not the most pleasant to look at animals anyway
b) any debate at all of a species compared to the life of our children is not worth even debating over. dog be gone. Say whatever you wish but if theres even a .05 % chance its a 100% get outta town to even be bothered with the debate.

Dog < children
Ugly dog <<< children

No matter what the lonely say. The end.

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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

5-Year-Old Boy Days Away From Sixth Birthday Mauled to Death By Two Dogs While at Friend's House

Owner came home and put down the Pit Bulls
But I think we should start putting down the Owners of these Pit Bulls.

If you have a Pit Bull and you mistreat it to a degree that it viciously kills an innocent child you should spend Life in jail. PERIOD!

Totally serious about this. You imagine how this would deter people/owners from mistreating these dogs.

Totally agree. Pits are one of the friendliest breeds out there when raised properly. My youngest has one as a service dog for her autistic son. A friend of hers has 3 pits who love to play with her two kids. A friend of mines son has a pit and a new baby and the dog looks at the baby as hos best friend and will stand guard by the baby around strangers.
My brother in law who trains dogs for rescue work actually recommended the pit to my youngest for the service dog and had a hand in training it.

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ThomM 9 years ago

Just came across this article about another pit bull.
Police: Mom Says She Was High On Meth When She Left Toddler Alone In Woods
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Ingrid du Preez 9 years ago

Yes. They are excellent guard dogs. They were the preferred guard dogs for children in the 50's. I say, Dogs' personalities are either built up, or ruined, by their human owners. End of story
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Synnuh

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/5-old-boy-days-away-172740628.html]
If you have a Pit Bull and you mistreat it to a degree that it viciously kills an innocent child you should spend Life in jail. PERIOD!

As a pitbull owner, it actually shocked me to see someone finally add in that line, and not bunch us all up together. A+

Sad for the family, sad for the dog, and the owner.

Not all pits are aggressive. As soon as mine wrinkles her forehead, or perks her ears, she's called down. She's never been given a chance to even see aggression as being accepted -- she's a confused pitbull lol

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discrat 9 years ago

Just do not see how this guy could escape at least getting a couple of years of hard time.
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- Mike Anthony 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Just do not see how this guy could escape at least getting a couple of years of hard time.
  
  ??? Haven't followed the story that closely. Has there actually been verification that this owner abused his dog?
  
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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Totally agree. Pits are one of the friendliest breeds out there when raised properly.

ROFL........Yes of course over poodles, daschunds, Saint Bernards. Collie's, Corgies. Beagles, Golden and Labrador retrievers - thats some serious spin you got going there Thom.

My youngest has one as a service dog for her autistic son. A friend of hers has 3 pits who love to play with her two kids. A friend of mines son has a pit and a new baby and the dog looks at the baby as hos best friend and will stand guard by the baby around strangers..

This is precisely the anecdotal thinking that has gotten children killed. No one claims every Pit bull is going to attack a child but the breed undeniably has a history of issues so why in the world would any good parent bother with such a dog? wheres the reward to risk? and a new baby? Call 911. Your friend needs help. There a whole bunch of dogs that don't need to be near new babies.

Every time I see a child attacked I shake my head at the parent - for a dog and the sake of thinking you were right you risked your child?

Just stupidity. with all the lovable breeds out there that have no history and no controversy

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

This is precisely the anecdotal thinking that has gotten children killed. No one claims every Pit bull is going to attack a child but the breed undeniably has a history of issues so why in the world would any good parent bother with such a dog? wheres the reward to risk? and a new baby? Call 911. Your friend needs help. There a whole bunch of dogs that don't need to be near new babies.

Yes and I have always thought the same thing myself. Particularly with the High Risk/Reward. In some ways its NOT prudent at all.

Why take the Risk? There are not other lovable breeds out there ?

MA, of course you do have to realize that for some it is a status thing .i.e put the big iron collar around the Pit and the chain leash and walk down the block with your bad self

I think some of these people are trying to make up for low self esteem lol

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

MA, of course you do have to realize that for some it is a status thing .i.e put the big iron collar around the Pit and the chain leash and walk down the block with your bad self

Yeah I've seen em...in some cases where you can't make up your mind who looks more stupid..

Heres the other thing. You can't just presume the dogs were mistreated by their masters. One of the smartest most well kept dogs we ever had (his demeanor allowed him to be almost part of the family, everyone loved him and treated him like a king) took the habit of yapping at kids. Would not full down bite but the edge of a tooth nicked a niece once when she tried to pet him.

Couldn't understand it....until I was home one weekday and a bunch of kids started kicking the fence and yelling at him. It had been happening for awhile as they walked home from school each day. They took it as sport. he began to see children that age as a treat when they got too close and moved suddenly to pet him.

Kids of a young age are another matter. They love dogs and get some ideas about them.They'll climb on them and yank ears to "ride them". You need your head examined if you don't think an instinct can't overtake the pet's mind when they mistake actions of a child as an attack. Like it or not some breeds will respond much more aggressively than other breeds to such an "attack". Some will defend and move away and some will not stop until they neutralize the threat - I don't need the latter around my children and HECK no around my young children.

IF people think they can control every variable then they are terribly foolish.

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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

ROFL........Yes of course over poodles, daschunds, Saint Bernards. Collie's, Corgies. Beagles, Golden and Labrador retrievers - thats some serious spin you got going there Thom.

This is precisely the anecdotal thinking that has gotten children killed. No one claims every Pit bull is going to attack a child but the breed undeniably has a history of issues so why in the world would any good parent bother with such a dog? wheres the reward to risk? and a new baby? Call 911. Your friend needs help. There a whole bunch of dogs that don't need to be near new babies.

Every time I see a child attacked I shake my head at the parent - for a dog and the sake of thinking you were right you risked your child?

Just stupidity. with all the lovable breeds out there that have no history and no controversy

Going from experience and knowledge of the breed. Sorry I don't buy into the pit bull hysteria like you have. It wasn't until dog fighting made a come back in the 80's that pit bulls got a bad rap.
It all comes down to the owner and breeders as to the temperament of the dog.

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Mike Anthony 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Going from experience and knowledge of the breed. Sorry I don't buy into the pit bull hysteria like you have

Utter rubbish ...you are going from anecdotal evidence - dressing it up as knowledge and experience is just fluffing it up. The breed has potential issues and some studies have found numbers to back it up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

i won't say definitively the issue has been settled because it hasn't been and some studies show otherwise but any parent out there willing to gamble on that is out of his mind.

It all comes down to the owner and breeders as to the temperament of the dog.

Thats just denial. Some animals can have a genetic tendency. you hear that same thinking from people keeping tigers and lions and then one day they are sooooo amazed that the tiger actually acted like one.
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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

ROFL........Yes of course over poodles, daschunds, Saint Bernards. Collie's, Corgies. Beagles, Golden and Labrador retrievers - thats some serious spin you got going there Thom.

This is precisely the anecdotal thinking that has gotten children killed. No one claims every Pit bull is going to attack a child but the breed undeniably has a history of issues so why in the world would any good parent bother with such a dog? wheres the reward to risk? and a new baby? Call 911. Your friend needs help. There a whole bunch of dogs that don't need to be near new babies.

Every time I see a child attacked I shake my head at the parent - for a dog and the sake of thinking you were right you risked your child?

Just stupidity. with all the lovable breeds out there that have no history and no controversy

Are you saying that statistically there have been more attacks by pit bulls than any other type of dog?

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Are you saying that statistically there have been more attacks by pit bulls than any other type of dog?

No TL. Look at that Stats... Poodles have a resounding worse track record than Pities

I wouldn't want my.kids playing with Yorkies either. They have small bodies but incredibly strong jaws. Just a menace to our Society lol

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

No TL. Look at that Stats... Poodles have a resounding worse track record than Pities

I wouldn't want my.kids playing with Yorkies either. They have small bodies but incredibly strong jaws. Just a menace to our Society lol

Here's something I found...

Top 10 Most Dangerous Dog Breeds Based On Their Fatalities

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discrat 9 years ago

Here is some interesting commentary on some reputable dog sites like dogbite.com
__________________________________________________ ___________________________
Q: How come pit bull owners say, "My dog might lick you to death."

To understand the experience of owning a negatively perceived dog, Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy did a study on pit bull owners. Researchers found that owners of out-law dog breeds directly feel the stigma targeted at their breed and resort to various tactics to lessen it. One of the tactics included attempts to counterbalance the pit bull's menacing appearance and physical power with overwhelming "affectionate" behavior, such as: "My dog might lick you to death."16

Q: What is the best thing we can do for communities and pit bulls?

The best thing we can do for communities and pit bulls is to regulate pit bull ownership and pit bull breeding. Lowering the pit bull population will reduce the number of serious maulings and the euthanasia of pit bulls. In late 2014, Animals 24-7, a group that tracks shelter killings, estimated that of the 1.3 million shelter dogs projected for euthanasia in 2014, pit bulls accounted for 56%.19 This is true despite the fact that pit bulls only make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.20

Over 700 U.S. cities and nearly all privatized military housing -- the U.S. Army, U.S. Marine Corps and U.S. Air Force -- and many public housing authorities have breed-specific restrictions. Such measures often include: mandatory sterilization, liability insurance and strict containment rules. The most progressive law, a pit bull ban, prohibits new pit bulls and new pit bull breeding. In just a few years, these communities see a significant drop in pit bull bites and euthanasia of pit bulls.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________

Hopefully this breed will become instinct and it looks like we are just starting to put our best foot forward in doing so.
Whether its a bad owner ( which many times it is) or the innate nature of these animals , the best way to counter the vicious maulings every year they bestow on innocent people is to rid our society of them, And the bad Owners as well lol
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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Are you saying that statistically there have been more attacks by pit bulls than any other type of dog?

I've seen enough research that they are represented above what would be expected if they were neutral to other breeds in aggression but its not just Pit bulls. I don't want dobermans around my young children either. Shucks we had a big breed dog as friendly as can be but as stupid as they get. jumps up on anything and anyone to say hello- bye bye

I can't imagine the pain of losing a child but to lose one or have one hurt because of a decision I made to have a DOG? or because i ummm derr err thought they were safe even when they are implicated in many attacks? I'd understand contemplating suicide at that point.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Here's something I found...

Top 10 Most Dangerous Dog Breeds Based On Their Fatalities

Yikes, thats frightening !! I knew Pit Bull violence was worst than any other breeds but did not realize by that significant margin !

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I can't imagine the pain of losing a child but to lose one or have one hurt because of a decision I made to have a DOG? or because i ummm derr err thought they were safe even when they are implicated in many attacks? I'd understand contemplating suicide at that point.

Come on MA, dont be silly. You are in the OT where if the majority of the people here had a choice on saving a strangers innocent baby or their own dog on an oncoming train they would pick their dog without even
thinking. ( remember that Thread lol). Thats some effed up Morals right there

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Come on MA, dont be silly. You are in a place where the majority of the people here would rather save their dog on a train track than rescue a stranger's innocent baby. ( remember that Thread lol)

I missed that gem or don't remember it.

I do know there are some bleeding hearts here but beg as they like Human life trumps canine. I'd kill ten dogs to save one child's life without thinking about it. thankfully since I love dogs (cats suck) its not a choice I have to make

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Dreamer95

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

5-Year-Old Boy Days Away From Sixth Birthday Mauled to Death By Two Dogs While at Friend's House

Owner came home and put down the Pit Bulls
But I think we should start putting down the Owners of these Pit Bulls.

If you have a Pit Bull and you mistreat it to a degree that it viciously kills an innocent child you should spend Life in jail. PERIOD!

Totally serious about this. You imagine how this would deter people/owners from mistreating these dogs.

That is completely insane! I am with you. Pit bulls are not bad animals like everyone wants them to be. It's how the owners raise them. Killing a 6 year old boy is terrible and the owners of the dog deserves to be arrested for the crime they have committed.

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Mike Anthony 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dreamer95

Killing a 6 year old boy is terrible and the owners of the dog deserves to be arrested for the crime they have committed.

Again does anyone have a link where this owner confesses or is charged with this? Or is it just still pit bull lovers making up the conclusion? to say that every pit bull attack that has happened in recent times is automatically jail time for the owners for animal abuse borders on asinine.
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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Meanwhile don't buy the "hysteria" from me. You can get it from Time magazine too

KFC Victoria Wilcher: Why Do So Many Pit Bulls Maul Children?

yeah....uh-huh.....those are numbers and facts that i am glad to see in a breed for my young child.

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ThomM

9 years ago

From the American Kennel Club.

As the breed moved to America the names Pitdog and Pitbull Terrier stuck. However, American breeders wanted an animal heavier than the British breed, hence the name American Staffordshire Terrier.

Training &Temperament

The Am Staff is a people-oriented dog that thrives when he is made part of the family and given a job to do. Regular exercise and training are necessary. They are natural clowns, so they tend to make training comical at times; they like to put a little twist on your training program. It's vital to keep it fun and interesting. A stubborn-streak can make them difficult to train at times and will require patience and a firm, but kind, hand.

American Staffordshire Terrier History & Training/Temperament - American Kennel Club

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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Meanwhile don't buy the "hysteria" from me. You can get it from Time magazine too

KFC Victoria Wilcher: Why Do So Many Pit Bulls Maul Children?

yeah....uh-huh.....those are numbers and facts that i am glad to see in a breed for my young child.

Another article from Time. The Problem With People, Not Pit bulls

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ThomM

9 years ago

And the follow up to the Time article you posted. KFC Suggests Story of Scarred Girl Booted From Store Was a Hoax

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

And the follow up to the Time article you posted. KFC Suggests Story of Scarred Girl Booted From Store Was a Hoax

Sigh......The Girl WAS attacked by a pit bull. She lost an eye due to the attack

Whatever happened to Victoria Wilcher, victim of dog attack outfitted with prosthetic eye? - Naples Daily News

The time article was NOT primarily about the KCF incident which had nothing to do with the attack itself but the alleged reaction to her scars AFTERWARDS. IT included data and facts about Pit bull attacks.

Why resort to such desperation for a dog breed that attacks so many children?

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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Sigh......The Girl WAS attacked by a pit bull. She lost an eye due to the attack

Whatever happened to Victoria Wilcher, victim of dog attack outfitted with prosthetic eye? - Naples Daily News

The time article was NOT primarily about the KCF incident which had nothing to do with the attack itself but the alleged reaction to her scars AFTERWARDS

Why resort to such desperation for a dog breed that attacks so many children?

Why not admit it's because of the owners not properly training their dogs that are the problem?
I know you'll say this site is biased because it's against breed specific laws, but look at the links that are from news sites as reputable as any links you've put up.
Pit Bull Heroes Hall of Fame | BSL News
If you bothered reading the info page on the breed at the AKC you'd see they also say it's a friendly breed and good with children.

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discrat 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Why not admit it's because of the owners not properly training their dogs that are the problem?

Quote from that KFC story
“Every kind of dog is neglected and abused,” Clifton agrees. “And not every kind of dog responds to the neglect and abuse by killing and injuring people.”

This is where the words "inherent" and "innate" come into play
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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Why not admit it's because of the owners not properly training their dogs that are the problem?

because no one knows that for a fact and yet every knows the dog s were bred for blood sport

If you bothered reading the info page on the breed at the AKC you'd see they also say it's a friendly breed and good with children.

Kennel Clubs are not int the business of putting down any breed Thom. Good with children my eye. Call me when there s the next out break of poodles maiming children. I have no doubt some are and I am sure that good training helps but it helps with Tigers too

Bottom line is there is more than enough history and different opinions on this dog that a good parent would be foolish to overlook them for the "privilege" of owning what no one can claim is the world's best looking or cuddlesome dog.

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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

because no one knows that for a fact and yet every knows the dog s were bred for blood sport

Kennel Clubs are not int the business of putting down any breed Thom. Good with children my eye. Call me when there s the next out break of poodles maiming children. I have no doubt some are and I am sure that good training helps but it helps with Tigers too

Bottom line is there is more than enough history and different opinions on this dog that a good parent would be foolish to overlook them for the "privilege" of owning what no one can claim is the world's best looking or cuddlesome dog.

Well I'll stick to listening to the authorities on the breed.
No one knows for a fact the owners are responsible?
By the way the AKC is in the business of being honest about dog breeds. They pretty much have to be as people will use them for selecting the perfect dog to have a s a companion, guard dog or working dog, etc. Just because you don't agree with what the experts say, doesn't make the experts wrong.

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Mike Anthony 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Well I'll stick to listening to the authorities on the breed.
No one knows for a fact the owners are responsible?

Yeah and sensible parents will look at the raw data and facts. Besides which where on the page does the AKC itself even say the dog is good with children?

Just because you don't agree with what the experts say, doesn't make the experts wrong.

I don't disagree with experts I just listen to all of them unlike yourself. My Children are too important not to. Theres a debate about this dog even among experts and theres VERY good evidence that that breed gets overly vicious when it is stirred (which need have nothing to do with mistreatment). You can stick your head in the sand all you wish.

The only reason it concerns me is every now and again your types allow the dogs loose.
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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Another article from Time. The Problem With People, Not Pit bulls

Oh please - a rebuttal piece written by

The president of the American Pit Bull Foundation

Thats like rebutting the Earth is round by referencing an article by the president of the Flat Earth society

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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Oh please - a rebuttal piece written by

The president of the American Pit Bull Foundation

Thats like rebutting the Earth is round by referencing an article by the president of the Flat Earth society

Yeah wouldn't want to believe people that actually know something about the breed. I suppose the link I posted to the AKA info on the breed is biased also right? But your article from Time that is most likely a hoax is valid.

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Yeah wouldn't want to believe people that actually know something about the breed. I suppose the link I posted to the AKA info on the breed is biased also right? But your article from Time that is most likely a hoax is valid.

Pure Crapola and utter nonsense. You should be embarrassed at yourself for trying to insinuate the little girls injury by a Pit Bull was a hoax.. The only ting that is in questions was what happened at KFC waaay AFTER

The AKA page says nothing bad about any breed but if you read it you would see it backs the REALITY of what the breed was bred for - and it isn't to be pet by children

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Thats quite the hoax Thom. So disturbing I will not even post it here

http://mediaassets.naplesnews.com/ph....0_640_480.jpg

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HeySal

9 years ago

I've had the same prejudice launched against my dogs as pits get - I had a rot.

New neighbors in the other side of my duplex in Colorado. We lived on a dirt, dead end road.........not a lot of traffic but still. .....your kids don't belong in the road. Right? So she's not met us yet and she's hanging up clothes. Toddler wanders into the road. She looks up, doesn't see me. Sees Blitz, my 175 lb rottie charging at her kid. She screams, clothes go everywhere............and then Blitz gets to the kid. Grabs it's shirt and walks it gently back into the yard out of the road. Nudges kid gently with nose and knocks it on it's butt, then looks up at me and gives a soft wofffff. She's shaking like a leaf, tears, and can't believe the care she just saw a dog breed she's always been scared crapless of show for her child. I walk over, introduce myself and Blitz and tell her not to worry about her kids around my dog.

Two months later? "Where's Josh, Shella?" "He's around - don't worry, Blitz is with him (from a mom with a toddler that lives about 100 feet from Clear Creek).

Husband from next door. "Ya know, Sal - if that dog ever bites one of my kids, I'm punishing THEM because I can't imagine what it would take to make him bite them."

End of story? No. My last full bred rot was a little more fiesty. He wouldn't hurt anything purposely, but wasn't raised around kids and played too rough. I kept him away unless I had him leashed and a hand on his collar..........because my worst nightmare was that he'd knock a kid down and it would crack it's head open on a rock or pavement and someone would demand him put down. He also started nipping (not gouging lunges, but nips) at things that moved close to him as his eyesight started to get bad in his older age.

It's not the breed, it's individuals needing to be treated as individuals. It's also a little hysteria. People don't understand the difference between a dog playing too hard and a dog attacking. They don't understand the difference between an unmeant nip, a nip to back a kid off that shouldn't be doing what they are doing and a bite in viciousness. We were taught how to act around animals when I was a kid. Now days everything a dog does is drama, vicious, dangerous, and kids can do no wrong.

A dog that is out and out vicious, though...........that's the owner's fault almost all the time. There are dogs that are crazy, just as there are humans that are, but if it comes to a child being ripped apart before the owner knows the dog has a problem -- the owner IS the problem. A normal dog can be trained out of aggression.

Unfortunately, what has happened with pits and rotts alike is the "I have a badass dog" attitude of a lot of the people that get them. They get a powerful dog and think they are "training" it to be protective, when what they are doing is making it aggressive. I have no problem with the idea of making people who want to get powerful dogs - rotts, pitts, mastiffs, etc take classes in aggression mitigation training and general training before they are allowed to own one. You'd not only get more gentle dogs - you'd get better owners, you'd have happier companionships.

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Mike Anthony 8 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

My last full bred rot was a little more fiesty.

AKA overly agressive

because my worst nightmare was that he'd knock a kid down and it would crack it's head open on a rock or pavement and someone would demand him put down.

Egad! the real nightmare there wouldn't be the kid with the cracked skull but a dog being put down.

Now days everything a dog does is drama, vicious, dangerous, and kids can do no wrong.

lol.......Ummm they are not equals. Say after me...Apples and Oranges

A dog that is out and out vicious, though...........that's the owner's fault almost all the time.

You have no way of knowing that. Its just an empty assertion. Its amusing to see people deny genetics. Animals were BRED not merely trained to be in a blood sport and some of that was for instinctual aggression under the right circumstances. Lets just put this in its non PCcontext

Husband: I am going out to get a dog. I feel like Junior should have a pet around since he's nearly five.
Wife: Thats a great idea. Do you know which dog you are getting for Junior?
Husband: No particular one but i do have a kind in mind
Wife: Really? what kind?
Husband: I was thinking one that was bred to fight and shed the blood of smallish life forms?
Wife: Okay Honey but after you pick up the dog could you do me a favor?
Husband: Sure Babe whats that?
Wife: Don't come back
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discrat

8 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I kept him away unless I had him leashed and a hand on his collar..........because my worst nightmare was that he'd knock a kid down and it would crack it's head open on a rock or pavement and someone would demand him put down. He also started nipping (not gouging lunges, but nips) at things that moved close to him as his eyesight started to get bad in his older age.

Woe to your poor little dog being put down and who cares about little Cindy who has to deal with Convulsions everyday for the rest of her Life because your dog knocked her over and split her head open

Originally Posted by HeySal

. Toddler wanders into the road. She looks up, doesn't see me. Sees Blitz, my 175 lb rottie charging at her kid. She screams, clothes go everywhere............and then Blitz gets to the kid. Grabs it's shirt and walks it gently back into the yard out of the road. Nudges kid gently with nose and knocks it on it's butt, then looks up at me and gives a soft wofffff. She's shaking like a leaf, tears, and can't believe the care she just saw a dog breed she's always been scared crapless of show for her child. I walk over, introduce myself and Blitz and tell her not to worry about her kids around my dog.

It wouldn't have gotten that far, Blitz would have been blown away on site and rightfully so. It isn't society's
responsibility to determine if your dog is violent or not or if he is just playing or not.

In this case you protect the child at all cost. Sorry my kid lives your pet dies !! Every time.I dont care if she grabs his balls and twist them like a tourniquet. The pets going down. No exceptions

If he sprinted after my kid he would be six feet under if I had a gun at that moment. And the Law will side me 100% of the time.

What our parent's supposed to do ? ... i.e " Oh just wait honey to see exactly what this viscous looking dog will do when he reaches our kid"

Like I said a parent has every right to put a bullet in him. It does not matter if kids are supposed to be in the street or not!!

Kids first. Pets second or maybe even third or fourth. End of story

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ThomM

8 years ago

Another concern is that a ban on a specific breed
might cause people who want a dangerous dog to sim-
ply turn to another breed for the same qualities they
sought in the original dog (eg, large size, aggression
easily fostered). Breed-specific legislation does not
address the fact that a dog of any breed can become
dangerous when bred or trained to be aggressive. From
a scientific point of view, we are unaware of any formal
evaluation of the effectiveness of breed-specific legisla-
tion in preventing fatal or nonfatal dog biteshttp://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreation...ogbreeds-a.pdf

Even the CDC basically says it's the owners and suggest targeting them and not the breed.

Generic non-breed-specific, dangerous dog laws
can be enacted that place primary responsibility for a
dog's behavior on the owner, regardless of the dog's
breed.
17
In particular, targeting chronically irresponsi-
ble dog owners may be effective.
18
If dog owners are
required to assume legal liability for the behavior and
actions of their pets, they may be encouraged to seek
professional help in training and socializing their pets.
Other options include enforcing leash laws and laws
against dog fighting.

Besides which where on the page does the AKC itself even say the dog is good with children?

Look under training and temperment. It lists how the breed is with children, other pets, training and time alone. But then that's from responsible dog owners.

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Mike Anthony 8 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Even the CDC basically says it's the owners and suggest targeting them and not the breed.

We could go back and forth forever from different sources. Thats why its debatable - and why no responsible parent should approach it like a settled matter as if they are not potentially endangering their children's lives. The data speaks for itself. Much of it in the time article which you tried to brush aside under a less than fully honest argument

Look under training and temperment. It lists how the breed is with children, other pets, training and time alone. But then that's from responsible dog owners.

Saw that already and thats a site user poll. You can click on it yourself an change the numbers. OF course the breed owners are more likely to look it up and vote affirmatively
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Mike Anthony

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Even the CDC basically says it's the owners and suggest targeting them and not the breed..

Really then why does you very own link state

Results—During 1997 and 1998, at least 27 people
died of dog bite attacks (18 in 1997 and 9 in 1998). At
least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in 238
human DBRF during the past 20 years. Pit bull-type
dogs and Rottweilers were involved in more than half of
these deaths. Of 227 reports with relevant data, 55
(24%) human deaths involved unrestrained dogs off
their owners’ property, 133 (58%) involved unrestrained
dogs on their owners’ property, 38 (17%) involved
restrained dogs on their owners’ property, and 1 (< 1%)
involved a restrained dog off its owner’s property.
Conclusions—Although fatal attacks on humans
appear to be a breed-specific problem (pit bull-type
dogs and Rottweilers), other breeds may bite and
cause fatalities at higher rates

and states later

Despite these limitations and concerns, the data
indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs
accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States
between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that
they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the
United States during that same period and, thus, there
appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities

and despite your claims it admits that genetics does play a factor

g bite prevention.
Several interacting factors affect a dog’s propensity
to bite, including heredity, sex, early experience,
socialization and training, health (medical and behavioral),
reproductive status, quality of ownership and
supervision, and victim behavior

So even your own source disputes your position

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ThomM

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Really then why does you very own link state

and states later

and despite your claims it admits that genetics does play a factor

So even your own source disputes your position

So my own source disputes itself? That's rich.

Here quote the whole thing instead of stopping after you think you proved your point.

Results
—During 1997 and 1998, at least 27 people
died of dog bite attacks (18 in 1997 and 9 in 1998). At
least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in 238
human DBRF during the past 20 years. Pit bull-type
dogs and Rottweilers were involved in more than half of
these deaths. Of 227 reports with relevant data, 55
(24%) human deaths involved unrestrained dogs off
their owners’ property, 133 (58%) involved unrestrained
dogs on their owners’ property, 38 (17%) involved
restrained dogs on their owners’ property, and 1 (
<
1%)
involved a restrained dog off its owner’s property.
Conclusions
—Although fatal attacks on humans
appear to be a breed-specific problem (pit bull-type
dogs and Rottweilers), other breeds may bite and
cause fatalities at higher rates. Because of difficulties
inherent in determining a dog’s breed with certainty,
enforcement of breed-specific ordinances raises con-
stitutional and practical issues. Fatal attacks represent
a small proportion of dog bite injuries to humans and,
therefore, should not be the primary factor driving
public policy concerning dangerous dogs. Many practi-
cal alternatives to breed-specific ordinances exist and
hold promise for prevention of dog bites.

82% at least could be contributed to the owner and not the dog breed.
Notice through out they say pit bull type dogs. Many people see a large dog and think it's a pit bull. My old Black and Tan Coonhound was mistaken for a pit bull and doberman many times because of his size, colors, and head size. He was a large, 120 pound dog.
The conclusion even says it may APPEAR to be a breed specific problem but other breeds may bite and cause fatalities at a higher rate because it's difficult to identify a breed with certainty.

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Mike Anthony

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

So my own source disputes itself? That's rich.

Here quote the whole thing instead of stopping after you think you proved your point.

Yawn....It does prove my point no matter how you try and spin other wise . Try reading Thom. From my first posts I indicated it was not just Pit Bulls I had an issue with.So the inclusion of other dogs doesn't phase my point in the least. Are Pit Bulls and Rotts in there? yep. Trying to weave straw from what my position actually is won't work no more than being dishonest about what was allegedly "Fraud" in a time article about a real attack to make it go away didn't work either

The conclusion even says it may APPEAR to be a breed specific problem but other breeds may bite and cause fatalities at a higher rate because it's difficult to identify a breed with certainty.

Do you ever have a point???it cites the numbers of rotts and pits involved as the reason why theres an issue. Its VERY high . and apparently you can't read - "Despite these limitations and concerns, " it still is apparent theres an issue. Thats just one source - YOUR source. there are plenty of other s including the time article you tried and failed begging should be totally disregarded.

Further you citing any percentage below 100% being owner fault TOASTS your point that ownership is alone to blame so yes it is rich - that you ignore your own source to try and prove your point when it doesn't and states plainly there IS a genetic factor.

Look bottom line. You can whine , fabricate,ignore,beg till the cows come home. FACT - Pit Bulls were bred to be aggressive, destructive and violent for the blood sports they were employed in.Trying to claim you know for a fact that none of those genetic factors affect why we find them implicated in so many attacks on children is a failure in logic

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ThomM

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Yawn....It does prove my point no matter how you try and spin other wise . Try reading Thom. From my first posts I indicated it was not just Pit Bulls I had an issue with.So the inclusion of other dogs doesn't phase my point in the least. Are Pit Bulls and Rotts in there? yep. Trying to weave straw from what my position actually is won't work no more than being dishonest about what was allegedly "Fraud" in a time article about a real attack to make it go away didn't work either

Do you ever have a point???it cites the numbers of rotts and pits involved as the reason why theres an issue. Its VERY high . and apparently you can't read - "Despite these limitations and concerns, " it still is apparent theres an issue. Thats just one source - YOUR source. there are plenty of other s including the time article you tried and failed begging should be totally disregarded.

Further you citing any percentage below 100% being owner fault TOASTS your point that ownership is alone to blame so yes it is rich - that you ignore your own source to try and prove your point when it doesn't and states plainly their is a genetic factor.

Look bottom line. You can whine , fabricate,ignore,beg till the cows come home. FACT _ Pit Bulls were bred to be aggressive, destructive and violent for the blood sports they were employed in.Trying to claim you know for a fact that none of those genetic factors affect why we find them implicated in so many attacks on children is a failure in logic

Maybe you should try reading Mark and throw comprehension in there also.
Seeing how the number I mention was 82% of100% of dog attacks was unrestrained dogs and the 100% is of all breeds and not just pit type or rotts then yes it does point to owners. Even that report suggests owner related laws or regulations would be a better way to reduce dog bites then breed specific laws.
Sure the English version of the dog was bred for fighting over a hundred years ago. I've said right along owners and breeders are responsible. Thanks for admitting that at least.
Breeding practices change and the american version was never bred for fighting at least until dog fighting became popular and people like M. Vick got into it among others.
.

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Mike Anthony

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Maybe you should try reading Mark and throw comprehension in there also.

Ummmm......kind of embarrassing on your part to be giving comprehension instructions to a Mark when speaking to a poster with the name Mike right in front of you but its the basement so I guess anything goes

Seeing how the number I mention was 82% of100% of dog attacks was unrestrained dogs and the 100% is of all breeds and not just pit type or rotts then yes it does point to owners.

Yes oh swami and the other 18%? plus its hilarious logic to think that just because a dog gets loose its all the owners fault and has nothing to do with the breed. So we should all be allowed to keep tigers because I bet most of the attacks from pet tigers will be from unrestrained tigers. I don't think I have EVER known a dog owner where the dog NEVER got loose if even for a few seconds.

Even that report suggests owner related laws or regulations would be a better way to reduce dog bites then breed specific laws.

Sure you can argue the best way to solve the issue but that doesn't say that there is no problem with the breed only the best way to address it.

Sure the English version of the dog was bred for fighting over a hundred years ago. I've said right along owners and breeders are responsible. Thanks for admitting that at least.

Now you are just being sillier. Who had to admit that PIT Bulls were bred for aggressiveness? Welcome to the class - we all knew that coming in. I should be thanking you for FINALLY admitting theres an inheritance/genetic issue and in what world does genetic changes disappear in one hundred years? Your logic is so adhoc. Past breeding has no bearing on pet owners being solely responsible for their dog's action today.

Breeding practices change and the american version was never bred for fighting at least until dog fighting became popular and people like M. Vick got into it among others.
.

Don't give a rip about how they came to be dangerous. Go tell the three year old girl still suffering why they came to be violent and see if the eye magically grows back.

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discrat 8 years ago

About a month or so ago here in SA, I was taking my kids to local park. There were a bunch of young kids there.

There was this middle aged woman who was alone with her Pittie on a leash. All the kids ran over when she walked up. Evey time a kid wanted to pet the Pittie she had to hold its snout shut.

Every time.

She kept saying he is a little skittish but you can pet him.

Whenever she went by a group of people in close proximity, she would have to hold the dogs snout shut while still moving.

It was insane.

So goes another Pittie Owner
So goes another person playing an unnecessary
High Risk/Reward game.

Do we really need this in our Society with our kids?
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- Mike Anthony 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Whenever she went by a group of people in close proximity, she would have to hold the dogs snout shut while still moving.
  
  It was insane.
  
  Shucks we can just look in this thread. Sal just admitted she has to hold the leash AND the collar when out in public so as to protect the heads of children getting cracked from her safe breed.
  
  That picture should instill deep confidence in all of us
  
  You know if people want to keep these dogs thats fine and for protection have them in their backyards again fine - but to insist that children are 100% safe with these bred to taste blood creatures or any of these owners have what it takes to train them 100% to never attack - Thats jsut asinine.
  
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np2014

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

5-Year-Old Boy Days Away From Sixth Birthday Mauled to Death By Two Dogs While at Friend's House

Owner came home and put down the Pit Bulls
But I think we should start putting down the Owners of these Pit Bulls.

If you have a Pit Bull and you mistreat it to a degree that it viciously kills an innocent child you should spend Life in jail. PERIOD!

Totally serious about this. You imagine how this would deter people/owners from mistreating these dogs.

Mistreating dogs isn't the reason they attack. They do it as its in their nature. A dog gets angry it will attack - any dog will, but as these are very powerful and dangerous dogs they kill. I think its stupid having them as pets but a dog mistreated or not will still attack if angered either deliberately or unknowingly.

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Boy gets mauled to death 6 days before his 6th birthday

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