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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 10:40 AM   #1
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Default Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

When the New England Patriots were destroying most everyone a couple seasons ago, there was a lot of talk about running up scores.

Then there was the girls basketball game in which someone beat someone else something like 100 something to 8.

Have mercy rules for little league etc.

But...

I say on the pro, college and high school level - show no mercy.

If you can't compete, get off the field.


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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 10:52 AM   #2
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

It depends...

If a team keeps in their starters and runs up the score, that's poor sportsmanship.

However, if a team puts in 2nd and 3rd stringers and is still scoring, I think that's fair. It may be that 3rd stringer's only opportunity to score a TD or basket in their lifetime, so I think this balances the "running up the score". The losers aren't the only ones to think about...

There are exceptions, like this one:
Covenant School to forfeit 100-0 win over Dallas Academy | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News

It appears that Covenant was "pressing" (full-court high intensity defense) the entire game and never let up. Dallas Academy it seems only has 20 girls total enrolled in their school, and 8 of those are on the varsity basketball team. And these girls all have some type of disability.

This is a case of horrible sportsmanship, with the coach primarily to blame.

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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 10:58 AM   #3
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt View Post
It depends...

If a team keeps in their starters and runs up the score, that's poor sportsmanship.

However, if a team puts in 2nd and 3rd stringers and is still scoring, I think that's fair. It may be that 3rd stringer's only opportunity to score a TD or basket in their lifetime, so I think this balances the "running up the score". The losers aren't the only ones to think about...

There are exceptions, like this one:
Covenant School to forfeit 100-0 win over Dallas Academy | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News

It appears that Covenant was "pressing" (full-court high intensity defense) the entire game and never let up. Dallas Academy it seems only has 20 girls total enrolled in their school, and 8 of those are on the varsity basketball team. And these girls all have some type of disability.

This is a case of horrible sportsmanship, with the coach primarily to blame.
That's the game I was talking about.

OK, OK, give them a break.

Was that a middle school or a high school game?

If the team was full of people with disabilities, then play other teams with disabilities.

If it was high school then show no mercy because Covenant needs the practice.

OK, maybe get a comfortable lead and then take it easy on them.

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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 11:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

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Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post
That's the game I was talking about.

OK, OK, give them a break.

Was that a middle school or a high school game?

If the team was full of people with disabilities, then play other teams with disabilities.

If it was high school then show no mercy because Covenant needs the practice.

OK, maybe get a comfortable lead and then take it easy on them.

TL
The girls at Dallas Academy don't schedule the games. Why should they be humilated at the expense of another team's coach's ego?

You can't back out of the press when it's 50-0?

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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 11:05 AM   #5
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

I want my favourite teams to keep the throttle on high at all times. I mean playing kids with disabilities is a different matter. But in any really competitive league I say go for it.

If I was on an opposing team that let up on me - I would find that far more offensive than if they continued to play hard.

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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 11:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

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Originally Posted by Kurt View Post
The girls at Dallas Academy don't schedule the games. Why should they be humilated at the expense of another team's coach's ego?

You can't back out of the press when it's 50-0?
why should you have to.

it is a competition. If they didnt have enough players or good enough players, thats their problem, not their opponents.

Should a boxer not knock out his opponent if he's an overmatch? Mike tyson wouldnt have liked that

should a race car driver slow down if he's got a superior car and skill so as to not make the other driver's feel bad? Yeah that will happen

should a track runner slow down if the rest of the field is slower?

competition is about winning, not winning only if nobody else gets their feelings hurt.
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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 12:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

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Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post
why should you have to.

it is a competition. If they didnt have enough players or good enough players, thats their problem, not their opponents.

Should a boxer not knock out his opponent if he's an overmatch? Mike tyson wouldnt have liked that

should a race car driver slow down if he's got a superior car and skill so as to not make the other driver's feel bad? Yeah that will happen

should a track runner slow down if the rest of the field is slower?

competition is about winning, not winning only if nobody else gets their feelings hurt.
It's called "sportsmanship", look it up some time.

Competition isn't only about winning, and it's obvious by your posts on the matter you missed out on a few lessons in life.

And those examples you gave have NOTHING to do with the example I gave. Again for those slow of reading, the GIRLS didn't make the schedule.

You couldn't get a fight sanctioned with you and Mike Tyson, even at his age now. The regulating bodies will protect you from getting your head knocked off.

A better example than you gave, would be Ali vs. Floyd Patterson, when Ali wouldn't let Patterson fall and kept beating him, yelling "What's my name?!" This was BS.

Or later when Larry Holmes was beating Ali mercilessly, while pleading with the ref to stop the fight. This was sportsmanship.

I got news for you...Half of the teams win, half lose. It's a zero sum game. So if you're "theory" on winning is correct, it is only accurate half the time.

To answer the rest of your questions: No, no, no, no.

However, YES the girls BB team should have pulled out of their press. Accordingly to you, it's about winning, which they already did, not about embarrassing others. Only people with weak egos need to be built up by tearing others down.

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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 12:26 PM   #8
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

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Originally Posted by Kurt View Post
It's called "sportsmanship", look it up some time.
the mantra of a loser
Quote:
Competition isn't only about winning, and it's obvious by your posts on the matter you missed out on a few lessons in life.
competition is ALL about winning. Anyone who tells you anything else knows they are going to lose
Quote:
And those examples you gave have NOTHING to do with the example I gave. Again for those slow of reading, the GIRLS didn't make the schedule.
nope, but their coaches should have known they were out manned and outclassed.
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You couldn't get a fight sanctioned with you and Mike Tyson, even at his age now. The regulating bodies will protect you from getting your head knocked off.

A better example than you gave, would be Ali vs. Floyd Patterson, when Ali wouldn't let Patterson fall and kept beating him, yelling "What's my name?!" This was BS.

Or later when Larry Holmes was beating Ali mercilessly, while pleading with the ref to stop the fight. This was sportsmanship.
he kept beating him...and you think its sportsmanship?

as for tyson, tell that to the kid tyson fought for his comeback, hurricane mcneely. clocked twice within the first 2 minutes of the first round, his corner had to throw in the towel. so obviously outmatched it wasnt funny, but they still let him step in the ring with someone that would no doubt decimate him, and did.
Quote:
I got news for you...Half of the teams win, half lose. It's a zero sum game. So if you're "theory" on winning is correct, it is only accurate half the time.

To answer the rest of your questions: No, no, no, no.

However, YES the girls BB team should have pulled out of their press. Accordingly to you, it's about winning, which they already did, not about embarrassing others. Only people with weak egos need to be built up by tearing others down.
its about winning, if the other team got embarrassed, it wasnt the fault of the victors, it was the fault of their coaches for bringing a team that was woefully unprepared and undermanned.
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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 02:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

Michael Motley,

Maybe I am too naive here, but are you a plant or something? I mean you really just CAN'T be real.

Seriously! If you challenge me to a foot race, and I shoot you in the kneecap, or you challenge me to a car race, and I put sugar in your tank, have I REALLY won? In both cases I might get the trophy. YOU are saying it is OK! Now that I have made it so clear, do you STILL believe it is OK? You sound like another tonya harding! Remember HER? SHE was WIN AT ALL COSTS also! She is EVEN world famous!

Tonya Harding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OH, and anticipating your response, let's say we are playing against one another in baseball, and I use the bat to shatter your kneecap?

Some here seem to believe saying anything in an ad is fair game, and that a charge should mean that the seller has FULL control over the funds. That sounds like the kind of reaction YOU would have. That is ALSO not right, as some here found.

And boxing IS a bit different. The POINT is to knock them out. Still, you ARE supposed to let the guy drop, and stop until told to fight.

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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 03:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

In the case of amateur sports, I thinkrunning up the score IS poor sportsmanship. But I'm talking about really running it up, rubbing it in their faces, the coach needs an ego massage kind of running it up. Other than that, there is nothing wrong with a high school football team beating another team (in the same class/division) 57-6, or a baseball team winning 16-2.

BUT!

When it comes to pro ball, there is NO such thing as running up the score - ever.

Play like a pro, or go home.

Sportsmanship isn't about keeping the score "fair enough". It's about HOW you are doing it. In fact, I would say if the team that's far ahead starts easing up, then THAT isn't being sporty - it adds insult to injury.

Is it okay to put in 2nd and 3rd stringers? Of course, as long as THEY are playing to the best of their ability. From a coaching standpoint it makes sense to give people deeper in your roster a chance to play in real games; you never know when a starter will get hurt.

However, it is not bad sportsmanship to keep your startes on the field for all four innings. THAT'S HOW LONG A GAME IS!

Sportsmanship has nothing to do with the score. There are sore losers, and there are obnoxious winners.

All the best,
Michael

p.s. I really thought the Hall of Fame game was pretty good this year. And it was cool to see the Oilers uniforms again.


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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 03:38 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

Quote:
Originally Posted by seasoned View Post
Michael Motley,

Maybe I am too naive here, but are you a plant or something? I mean you really just CAN'T be real.

Seriously! If you challenge me to a foot race, and I shoot you in the kneecap,
not the same thing. If i challenge you to a footrace and you are just plain faster than me, should you slow up so as to not make me feel bad in the name of sportsmanship?

Quote:
or you challenge me to a car race, and I put sugar in your tank, have I REALLY won?
Not the same thing, If i challenge you to a race and you just have a faster car than I do, should you drive slower in the name of sportsmanship?

Quote:
In both cases I might get the trophy. YOU are saying it is OK! Now that I have made it so clear, do you STILL believe it is OK? You sound like another tonya harding! Remember HER? SHE was WIN AT ALL COSTS also! She is EVEN world famous!
This isnt a case of win at all costs.

Quote:
Tonya Harding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OH, and anticipating your response, let's say we are playing against one another in baseball, and I use the bat to shatter your kneecap?
If you are just plain better at baseball than me, because you have more inate skill or have practiced more, should you then purposely create errors, drop the ball, swing at bad pitches in the name of sportsmanship?

Quote:
Some here seem to believe saying anything in an ad is fair game, and that a charge should mean that the seller has FULL control over the funds. That sounds like the kind of reaction YOU would have. That is ALSO not right, as some here found.
not the same thing as the example. you're making up an example to try to be correct, but your example isnt the same thing is the op's example, the same example i'm commenting on.
Quote:
And boxing IS a bit different. The POINT is to knock them out. Still, you ARE supposed to let the guy drop, and stop until told to fight.

steve
But when you ARE told to fight, you dont fight to your opponents skill level, you fight to yours. You dont have to handicap yourself because your opponent isnt up to par with your skills.
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Unread 11th Aug 2009, 05:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

Quote:
p.s. I really thought the Hall of Fame game was pretty good this year. And it was cool to see the Oilers uniforms again.
Confused the crap out of me when I came on the game flicking through the channels
It was cool though.

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Unread 12th Aug 2009, 01:32 AM   #13
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

The following applies mostly to college and high school football (American football) as they play the fewest games in a single season.

A lot of college football players are vying for a high draft pick for the NFL. If their team has 2 or 3 games where they are laying it on their opponent by half-time and the good players are removed so as to ease up, then the good players could wind up missing what would be equivalent to 1 1/2 - 2 games over the course of a season. These guys need as many snaps as possible to impress the pro scouts. Missing this much playing time could equal a drop in the draft by 2 or 3 rounds which could mean losing hundreds of thousands of dollars or more. College coaches understand this and understand that they are messing with a man's future livelihood by sitting him on the bench just because his team is stomping the opponent.

Same situation at the high school level except college scholarships are on the line instead of an NFL draft pick.

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Unread 12th Aug 2009, 07:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

Great point

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Unread 12th Aug 2009, 09:36 AM   #15
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

I'm a big Met fan.

There was a game, many years ago, when the Mets were playing against
the Braves, a team that beat them constantly, and were down like 8 to 1.
It was pretty much a done game.

The Met's scored something like 8 or 9 runs in the bottom of the 8th or
9th inning. I don't remember the exact details as it was so long ago, but
it was the greatest comeback in franchise history.

Here's my point. In professional sports, you can NEVER have a big enough
lead. Things happen. I've seen it.

Now, having said that, here is what I believe to be the difference between
playing the game and poor sportsmanship.

Playing The Game

Batter is up with a 10 run lead. It's a 3 and 2 count. The pitcher throws
a fastball right down the middle of the plate. If the batter doesn't at
least swing at it, he knows he's striking out. To me, that ruins the
integrity of the game. So the batter swings and hits the ball over the
fence for a home run. He runs around the bases, head down, doesn't
make a big deal about it and then professionally goes into the dugout.

Poor Sportsmanship

Same situation except after hitting the home run, batter runs around the
bases high fiving his coaches, waving his arms all around, greeting his
teammates at home plate with some kind of Jose Reyes chicken dance
and high fives everybody in the dugout, does another dance and then
takes a curtain call waving to all the fans.

That to me is the difference between the two.

I don't expect everybody to agree with this but there has to be a point
where the integrity of the game comes first. If somebody throws cheese
right down the middle of the plate, or misses a block giving your running
back a clear path to the end zone, even if you're at your own 5 yard line,
what are you supposed to do...not swing at the pitch and not run the ball?

If you want to say that you should take out your starters, fine. But what
if you don't have enough second string players (injured) to put in? What
do you do, stop playing the game?

There has to be a balance and I believe that balance lies within the
example I gave above between playing the game and poor sportsmanship.

But again, it's only my opinion.

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Unread 12th Aug 2009, 10:26 PM   #16
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Default Re: Is Running Up The Score Poor Sportsmanship???

Well for it depend on how the players played the game, and of course also on the strategy of the coach.
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