TRUTH be told ...

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

I often think that TRUTH is much like gold.

You can crush it, melt it, curse it, question it, investigate it, dig it, bury it, love it or hate it.

In the end, it will still be TRUE.

So I don't get sensitive if anyone mocks, derides or questions what I hold as truth.

Because if it is actually true, it should stand any test. If it fails any test, it wasn't truth,
so I'd thank you for applying the test.

In fact, if what I hold as truth is true, even after I am dead, TRUTH will still live on.

-Ray Edwards

I don't find a word of that to be the least bit true. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

I'm skeptical.

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lanfear63 8 years ago

There is what is in the OT threads and there is the truth. A thread never ends because the undisputed truth has been borne out and accepted by all, It either fizzles out or gets deleted.

And that really is, the truth.
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yukon

Banned 8 years ago

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Frank Donovan

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

So I don't get sensitive if anyone mocks, derides or questions what I hold as truth.
Because if it is actually true, it should stand any test. If it fails any test, it wasn't truth, so I'd thank you for applying the test.

Except that truth, by its definition, isn't yours. If truth means anything as a concept, it cannot belong to any one person. Indeed, to be a truth, it has to be the case regardless of what you or anyone else might believe.
.

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Claude Whitacre

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Except that truth, by its definition, isn't yours. If truth means anything as a concept, it cannot belong to any one person. Indeed, to be a truth, it has to be the case regardless of what you or anyone else might believe.
.

And it has to be true from every angle, it has to pass the most skeptical scrutiny.

Yes, the truth isn't anyone's. It stands by itself.

Maybe the worst trap is defending a "truth". Because then, learning stops.

Frank; I think that math is truth.

But if none of us existed, would math still be there? Did math exist before us? Did someone invent math...or just discover it?

I'm tempted by the notion that we discovered it. That it existed, and we just slowly found it. And are discovering more. No idea if it's true, but it fits my current fantasy.

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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And it has to be true from every angle, it has to pass the most skeptical scrutiny.

Yes, the truth isn't anyone's. It stands by itself.

Maybe the worst trap is defending a "truth". Because then, learning stops.

Frank; I think that math is truth.

But if none of us existed, would math still be there? Did math exist before us? Did someone invent math...or just discover it?

I'm tempted by the notion that we discovered it. That it existed, and we just slowly found it. And are discovering more. No idea if it's true, but it fits my current fantasy.

Math was something waiting to be discovered as it describes, explains and measures for the most part, the construct and workings of everything. It is latent in everything and integral to our understanding of it. Huge gaps remain though, still to be discovered. We have reached the point that we are unable to observe and so just postulate so we are unable to apply math. We can only make educated guesses based on previous data and the math used for that.

Math was always going to be used and incorporated by man ever since sufficient intelligence came about and commerce began. One crystal rock is worth 4 colored stones, demands math. We just expanded our understanding and use of it.

On the truth bit: the sky is blue, but not to someone who see's in black and white. However, simply because everyone else says that, they accept that label we have given to describe it. Inadequate receptors in your eyes should not blinker you to clear sight.

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Frank Donovan

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Frank; I think that math is truth.

But if none of us existed, would math still be there? Did math exist before us? Did someone invent math...or just discover it?

I'm tempted by the notion that we discovered it. That it existed, and we just slowly found it. And are discovering more. No idea if it's true, but it fits my current fantasy.

I favor the argument that math came about from the necessary connections we invented. So we can say, for example, that if 1+1=2 and 1+1+1=3, then the statement 1+2=3 is true because of the necessary connections we created.

In other words, universal physical realities existed before we did, but math is a language we invented to describe them.
.

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Kay King

8 years ago

On the truth bit: the sky is blue, but not to someone who see's in black and white. However, simply because everyone else says that, they accept that label we have given to describe it.

When I was a child I spent a lot of time thinking about things like "colors" - how do you know what someone else is seeing? I used to wonder how I could know if MY 'blue' was the same as what others saw...or not.

I used to have long discussions with my Grandfather about questions like that - and I had a lot of those questions. What a patient man he was!

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David Beroff

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

...But if none of us existed, would math still be there? Did math exist before us? Did someone invent math...or just discover it?

I'm tempted by the notion that we discovered it. That it existed, and we just slowly found it. And are discovering more. No idea if it's true, but it fits my current fantasy.

(Source)

(Also see the last chapter of Contact by Carl Sagan.)

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Raydal

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Except that truth, by its definition, isn't yours. If truth means anything as a concept, it cannot belong to any one person. Indeed, to be a truth, it has to be the case regardless of what you or anyone else might believe.
.

Agreed. That's why I said "what I hold as truth". It's not mine but I accept
it as truth whereas some other person may not.

-Ray Edwards

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Dan Riffle

8 years ago

Dammit, David. Now I'm hungry for pie.

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tagiscom

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

I often think that TRUTH is much like gold.

You can crush it, melt it, curse it, question it, investigate it, dig it, bury it, love it or hate it.

In the end, it will still be TRUE.

So I don't get sensitive if anyone mocks, derides or questions what I hold as truth.

Because if it is actually true, it should stand any test. If it fails any test, it wasn't truth,
so I'd thank you for applying the test.

In fact, if what I hold as truth is true, even after I am dead, TRUTH will still live on.

-Ray Edwards

Yes, truth is true, but if you have concrete proof that something which was previously mocked, is true, and is still denied, (eventhough it can be replicated) then mental illness issues may be involved?

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Math was something waiting to be discovered as it describes, explains and measures for the most part, the construct and workings of everything. It is latent in everything and integral to our understanding of it. Huge gaps remain though, still to be discovered. We have reached the point that we are unable to observe and so just postulate so we are unable to apply math. We can only make educated guesses based on previous data and the math used for that.

Math was always going to be used and incorporated by man ever since sufficient intelligence came about and commerce began. One crystal rock is worth 4 colored stones, demands math. We just expanded our understanding and use of it.

On the truth bit: the sky is blue, but not to someone who see's in black and white. However, simply because everyone else says that, they accept that label we have given to describe it. Inadequate receptors in your eyes should not blinker you to clear sight.

But some will cling on to established laws, eventhough laws can be bent or minilized to a point.

They refuse to consider that something is true, until concrete proof it given.

Which seams reasonable, but it also stops further research that could overturn the idea?

A genius, ignores mass media, and established laws, and goes ahead anyway.

A fool believes in current laws, and mass media, and does nothing!

Then ironically, (the fool) tries to discredit the genius, who is making an effort to find the truth!

And we wonder why this world is so F***up!

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TRUTH be told ...

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