Thoughts on Interconnected, Autonomous Vehicles: Part 5 - "Is it true?"

25 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
Princess Balestra made an interesting point in the other thread that got me to thinking...

Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

For Joe's kinda system to work, everyone gotta be in on the deal.
"Is it true?" is a question I often ask myself when I want to give a topic some thought.

So, could Interconnected, Autonomous Vehicles, (IAV's?) evolve over time into the current transportation system?

I think so.


Would every vehicle 'have' to be autonomous?

No. In fact I think that autonomous vehicles may lag behind the development of interconnected vehicles. Your car won't have to be self-driving in order to hook up to Skynet.

Would all or most vehicles 'have' to be interconnected for the transportation system to work effectively?

Again, I don't think so.

Even with a small percentage of interconnected vehicles, benefits to the overall transportation system will be huge. HUGE! As more people and governments recognize the benefits, adoption of Skynet will move forward at a rapid pace.

Will people 'have' to participate in Skynet?

No... not initially.


More thoughts later.


The other thread, http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...rts-least.html.

Joe Mobley
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    You might as well be riding on a bus.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10489812].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Joe, if you ever went to London, UK you would see cheap, mass public transportation on an unprecedented scale, buses every few minutes, cab's, underground and overground trains. I never bothered learning to drive until I came over to TX, it was easy to get around.

      In the US I accept distances are greater but having the interconnectivity with cheap, efficient, mass, public transportation is something that has been shunned in favour of mass car ownership and so profiting from it. If everywhere adopted communal, mass transportation, pollution and congestion would be greatly reduced.

      Due to the obsession with car ownership instilled though and the resultant pleasure of driving them also becoming a status thing, auto running cars exclusively used will probably never happen unless enforced.

      In the current developmental stages and for quite some time ahead, they would have to have their own lanes. Driving alongside erratic humans would demand a great leap in the technology. Yet to come.

      However, I am suggesting that we lose our obsession with individual transportation units and build an infrastructure of fast, efficient, public access movement transporters that is frequent, comfortable, accessible and can take you anywhere, often at high speed.

      Think of the environmental benefits, it could eliminate roads, some of it could be underground. For humans and freight alike.

      And before you say, who's going to pay for it, we all need it, so we all pay for it as a basic infrastructure utility, via our taxes, of course tiered, based on our earnings and ability to pay. And of course, we won't have to pay for cars and their upkeep.
      Signature

      Feel The Power Of The Mark Side

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10489841].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        My comments are in blue.

        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Joe, if you ever went to London, UK you would see cheap, mass public transportation on an unprecedented scale, buses every few minutes, cab's, underground and overground trains. I never bothered learning to drive until I came over to TX, it was easy to get around.
        I agree with your insights here. To some degree this happens in some of the U.S.'es(?) larger cities. It is probably foolishness to own a car in many parts of New York City.

        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        In the US I accept distances are greater but having the interconnectivity with cheap, efficient, mass, public transportation is something that has been shunned in favour of mass car ownership and so profiting from it. If everywhere adopted communal, mass transportation, pollution and congestion would be greatly reduced.
        I'm not sure "everywhere" will, or has to adopt the mass transportation model but I do expect that model will increase in numbers.

        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Due to the obsession with car ownership instilled though and the resultant pleasure of driving them also becoming a status thing, auto running cars exclusively used will probably never happen unless enforced.
        I think that obsession is slowly changing.

        And, I think you are right in that, in certain circumstances there will legislation to that end.



        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        In the current developmental stages and for quite some time ahead, they would have to have their own lanes. Driving alongside erratic humans would demand a great leap in the technology. Yet to come.

        Agreed. I do think that interconnectivity will be a faster moving technology for the immediate future.



        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        However, I am suggesting that we lose our obsession with individual transportation units and build an infrastructure of fast, efficient, public access movement transporters that is frequent, comfortable, accessible and can take you anywhere, often at high speed.

        Think of the environmental benefits, it could eliminate roads, some of it could be underground. For humans and freight alike.

        These benefits and many more.



        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        And before you say, who's going to pay for it, we all need it, so we all pay for it as a basic infrastructure utility, via our taxes, of course tiered, based on our earnings and ability to pay. And of course, we won't have to pay for cars and their upkeep.

        Perhaps another discussion.

        Thanks for the input.


        Joe Mobley
        Signature

        .

        Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10489877].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        However, I am suggesting that we lose our obsession with individual transportation units and build an infrastructure of fast, efficient, public access movement transporters that is frequent, comfortable, accessible and can take you anywhere, often at high speed.
        Well, that works for city slickers, and by the way, not all of us live in cities where mass transportation is available. We use firewood to heat our home in the winter. We go out with a chainsaw, cut it down, cut it up, haul it in and split it. Can't do that with mass transportation. We haul our supplies in via truck on a rural, gravel road. Can't do that on mass transportation. When I had chickens, we hauled in feed and hauled out chickens for sale. Can't do that on mass transportation.

        So ... no. Mass transportation can't "take you anywhere."

        Skynet .... phffffft. We can't even get high speed cable here.

        For where I live and how I want to live, this is a necessity.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10490134].message }}
        • You highlight a very real problem here with any 'plan' like what we're discussin'.

          Water, gas pipes, broadband, rail — it's gotta be cost effective to run this out to the extremities.

          Talkin' of which, that is an extremeticiously neato truck, Suzanne.
          Signature

          Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10490143].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            I don't know why we keep resurrecting this one, maybe the other ones, got deleted?

            But anyway, here is a good update!

            6 things I learned from riding in a Google Self-Driving Car - The Oatmeal

            Yes, they look cute, but have serious issues, apart from being it might be a good 10 years til, we see them on the roads?

            I agree with point 4. that it spotted a jaywalker before we did, but, imagine this thing in a crowded city. Probably wouldn't move at a crowded intersection.

            Skynet, l thought that someone used that as a gag name for the GPS or something, but they have actually used this, (l doubt that smart cars will become self aware and start flipping cars, but scary name).

            And as said before, top speed is 25 kmph, so road rage is a given, (40 km zones in Au, isn't going down well).

            So l suppose that we can forget about the argument of falling asleep and letting this thing take over on a freeway, (which is good, because it is a scary thought).

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10490302].message }}
            • Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

              I don't know why we keep resurrecting this one, maybe the other ones, got deleted?
              Hey, f*ck -- the future is done for.

              Mebbe we should move on to downloadable virtual clothing.

              Cos now we are gamifyin' our behaviors, I figure I earned extra points this week for applyin' stitches to a wound gonna weep.

              +25 Skirtvirts nabs me a kilt, visibly swishy swooshy in most places, an' replaced by a modest work skirt whenever cops or potential assailants (or mebbe Bruce Willis) happen to be in the vicinity.

              Course, my kilt, bein' virtual, does nonea the stuff a kilt oughta -- like prevent my fanjo from squeezin' tight if a chill wind whaps up between my legs -- which is why I gotta Warmth Veneer slung on under the virtual so I can regulate how warm I wanna be.

              Warmth Veneer is sleek as stockings, an' it is all over, an' the coolest thing of all is how I can randomly switch tartan on my kilt, mix an' match the criss cross to the sweep of my cape, an' strobe the gloves I am wearin' -- sidewalk by effortless sidewalk.

              I am wondrin' now, in my whimsy, what a pulse of feelin' this would offer people -- to shift as symbiotic chameleons in a mutual exchange of visible emotional flush.

              But hey, we got that already.

              I was in the mall today an' it throbbed with curiously contained evident life.

              Gotta figure we are always a spark away from sumthin'.
              Signature

              Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10490757].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

                Hey, f*ck -- the future is done for.

                Mebbe we should move on to downloadable virtual clothing.

                Cos now we are gamifyin' our behaviors, I figure I earned extra points this week for applyin' stitches to a wound gonna weep.

                +25 Skirtvirts nabs me a kilt, visibly swishy swooshy in most places, an' replaced by a modest work skirt whenever cops or potential assailants (or mebbe Bruce Willis) happen to be in the vicinity.

                Course, my kilt, bein' virtual, does nonea the stuff a kilt oughta -- like prevent my fanjo from squeezin' tight if a chill wind whaps up between my legs -- which is why I gotta Warmth Veneer slung on under the virtual so I can regulate how warm I wanna be.

                Warmth Veneer is sleek as stockings, an' it is all over, an' the coolest thing of all is how I can randomly switch tartan on my kilt, mix an' match the criss cross to the sweep of my cape, an' strobe the gloves I am wearin' -- sidewalk by effortless sidewalk.

                I am wondrin' now, in my whimsy, what a pulse of feelin' this would offer people -- to shift as symbiotic chameleons in a mutual exchange of visible emotional flush.

                But hey, we got that already.

                I was in the mall today an' it throbbed with curiously contained evident life.

                Gotta figure we are always a spark away from sumthin'.
                Throbbed? Must be one hell of a shopping centre, and l thought that my Cloud city one was cool!

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10491055].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10490052].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      You might as well be riding on a bus.


      Relax, self driving cars will only take over on highways....much too dangerous to do on city streets.


      You will still be able to drive.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10502046].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

        Relax, self driving cars will only take over on highways....much too dangerous to do on city streets.


        You will still be able to drive.
        If you consider being stuck in city traffic, driving. :-(

        Cheers. - Frank
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10502433].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

        Relax, self driving cars will only take over on highways....much too dangerous to do on city streets.


        You will still be able to drive.


        I don't want to drive. I want to go to sleep & have the car wake me up when I get there.








        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10502845].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          I don't want to drive. I want to go to sleep & have the car wake me up when I get there.
          I think that's closer than you think, even if you have to drive part of the way.

          For example, I live in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, if I want to go to Jacksonville Florida, (a 4'ish hour drive) I just "shoot up 95" (Interstate 95). I can see where I might have to drive to the I95 exit/entry ramps and Skynet take over the drive on the Interstate. I would be notified as the vehicle approached the exits to take over driving.

          Of course, there will be many missteps along the way.



          "Exit to Jacksonville in 30 minutes."





          Joe Mobley
          Signature

          .

          Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10504527].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

            I think that's closer than you think, even if you have to drive part of the way.

            For example, I live in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, if I want to go to Jacksonville Florida, (a 4'ish hour drive) I just "shoot up 95" (Interstate 95). I can see where I might have to drive to the I95 exit/entry ramps and Skynet take over the drive on the Interstate. I would be notified as the vehicle approached the exits to take over driving.

            Of course, there will be many missteps along the way.



            "Exit to Jacksonville in 30 minutes."





            Joe Mobley











            You'll run out of gas before you reach Tennessee.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10504659].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          I don't want to drive. I want to go to sleep & have the car wake me up when I get there.








          You Have Reached your Destination - YouTube
          It will wake you up when it drives into the lake!

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10504566].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

            It will wake you up when it drives into the lake!
            Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

            Cheers. - Frank
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10504570].message }}
  • Hmm, jus' gonna try an' clarify a point I forgot I made.

    Thinka the internet.

    Traffic whips an' zips, an' we are all in a loop, all connected.

    But there are plenty still offline, with no email or even YouTube.

    But their outtaloopness don't interfere with the rest of us, an' if we need 'em, or need to show 'em stuff, the arcane machinations of pre-internet discourse an' tech prevail.

    Problem with an in-the-loop network of vehicles is, the people outta the loop have more impact on the the loop than the offliners have on those online.

    Cos the loop is the roads an the rails.

    That was kinda all I was sayin'.

    But all is not lost.

    Thing about offliners is, we got no idea of who is outside the loop.

    Mebbe there is some guy downstairs who eschews the internet cos he is a guru beatnik (an' I think I know who he is).

    He is not connected, it does not matter to the rest of us that he is not connected, an' we have no way of knowin' that he is not connected.

    Suzanne's big ole truck screamin' down the highway (an' I figure she is worth a kickass road movie if you're lissnin', Tarantino) is diffrent.

    She is not connected to the loop but she is usin' its infrastructure an' is visible to the system

    So we can account for her movements as she burns along, swingin' her elephant gun.

    Up ahead, we see the guy from the previous thread who crashed or is hurt (I don't remember), an' his vehicle is alertin' Skynet to his predicament.

    Suzanne is best placed to help here, but Skynet can't reach her, even though it sees she is there, so the alert passes to the next available vehicle: the curvaceous pink orb glidin' along in Suzannne's slipstream.

    This vehicle has Claude in it, enjoyin' a sandwich as he takes in the view, an' he follows the alert, neatly shimmies round Suzanne, an' fixes up Problem Guy.

    Fearo's points are all good ones. Gonna be interestin' to see how an interconnected network is viewed — a summation of MINEs or a unity of OURs.

    I am gonna grab a glassa water now.

    It is my water, in my glass, gonna sploosh into my stomach.

    But also, it kinda ain't.

    It is jus' a gloop of stuff I siphon from a network connected to loadsa people.

    It is a finite amount, it passes throuh me an' out, an' back into the system.

    Figure I am never gonna get the same glassa water back, but such is the fickle nature of fluid.

    But you gotta figure we could tap vehicles in a similar way if we had an OURs model.

    People still gonna be free to stock up their refrigerators with bottled water, if you follow the analogy — which I don't, because my refrigerator is fulla beer an' weirdo cheese right now.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10490011].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    When I lived in San Diego in the early 1990s, California was already testing "networked" cars. There were 5 or 6 cars very closely "packed" driving down a lane of there own. The cars had drivers in case they were needed, but when self-driving. At that time, there we no accidents, maybe there were later.


    They were so tight they are drafting like race cars, which allowed them to go faster using less gas. Since networked cars will allow people to travel faster because they have "computer reaction speed", and knowing a bit of human nature, I'll bet many people will want to go faster with a networked car than a slow poke human driven car.


    As it is now, it takes about a second per car for every car at a stop light to simply begin to simply stop. Connected cars can all start immediately at the same time. This means if there's 12 rows of cars it will be the same as having the same effect as having 12 extra seconds of the traffic light being green, without the extra time.


    It also means cars can travel on the highways, taking turns being the "lead" car, being the "trail blazer", letting the cars behind use much less gas/electricity while maintaining speed.


    Here's an example of the power of drafting and why drivers draft in auto races:






    Also consider how self driving cars can benefit:
    Blind people
    People in wheel chairs
    Old folks
    Young folks
    People that drink/smoke


    Also, I can't remember the exact numbers, but I recently came across something interesting. People without a Driver License are now something like 63%. In the 1980s it was something like 85%. The biggest reason given is people don't want to be in debt as well as driving services like Uber and Lyft.


    As an ex cab driver, I know about 60% of the total cost of your ride goes to driver in the form of the fare and tips. Uber is spending a lot of money on research of self driving cars. If Uber can cut costs by 50% by not having to pay drivers, as well as getting better mileage by being able to safely draft, either using gas or electricity, it could become very expensive to own a car.
    Signature
    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10506196].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    The latest cars, stuffed with technology that collects driving data and makes keys obsolete, are far “smarter” than older vehicles. However, all those features come at a cost when it comes to how easily hackers can infiltrate car computer systems.

    Security researchers from the University of Washington and the University of California, San Diego took to the stage at a conference on Tuesday to describe how they were able to remotely break into vehicle electronics through an array of security holes. Speaking at the Enigma Security Conference in San Francisco, they discussed how cars have evolved over the years into computers on wheels that crafty hackers can penetrate under the right circumstances.

    One particularly sensitive entry point for hacking is the legally required OBD II port, which is basically “the Ethernet jack for your car,” said Stefan Savage, a University of California, San Diego professor of computer science and engineering. It is typically located below the dashboard on the driver’s side.

    This port acts as the car’s command center that connects to all of the different computers systems, said Savage. Mechanics often plug directly into this port to retrieve diagnostics for the car’s emissions, mileage, and engine errors.

    However, hackers who directly connect their laptops to the port through an intermediary device can basically plug into car’s control system and “have access to everything,” said Savage. “Once you get inside this network, all bets are off,” he said.

    In 2010, Savage and his and his research team demonstrated how they were able to wirelessly hack into the command centers of a 2009 Chevy Impala through the OBD-II port. They were able to manipulate the car’s braking system so that the vehicle suddenly stopped or failed to function at all.


    Security Experts Say That Hacking Cars Is Easy
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10508261].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      "Once you get inside this network, all bets are off," he said.
      C'mon, Suzanne. Please don't become a technological-advancement denier. You can't truly believe that these obstacles won't be overcome in the future. Seriously!

      We've put men on the moon and returned them safely to Earth. We'll figure out how to make autonomous cars, hack-proof. You can't stop progress.

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10508509].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        C'mon, Suzanne. Please don't become a technological-advancement denier. You can't truly believe that these obstacles won't be overcome in the future. Seriously!

        We've put men on the moon and returned them safely to Earth. We'll figure out how to make autonomous cars, hack-proof. You can't stop progress.

        Cheers. - Frank
        I'm just reporting an article that was on the front page of Google News today. I have no skin in the game, as I wouldn't buy a smart car for any reason. Just don't want one. I don't buy technology just to buy technology. I have to really want it and it has to do something that I want it to do.

        Like I was looking at the iPods because I wanted to play my own music in my truck. I was behind on knowledge about music technology. In the end, with research, I discovered that all I really needed was a stereo that had a usb port for my Android phone, and a Spotify account.

        Done. I'm now streaming my own music in my truck and did it by replacing my stereo rather than adding yet another device that is capable of streaming music, when my cellphone already does that.

        I have no intention of filling up my house with smart appliances. I like my life simple and I have found that the more features something has, the more it costs to repair and the more repairs it requires.

        Not all of us are made of money.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10508530].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I'm just reporting an article that was on the front page of Google News today. I have no skin in the game, as I wouldn't buy a smart car for any reason. Just don't want one. I don't buy technology just to buy technology. I have to really want it and it has to do something that I want it to do.
          I thought maybe you were looking for a boyfriend from across the globe. :-)
          Like I was looking at the iPods because I wanted to play my own music in my truck. I was behind on knowledge about music technology. In the end, with research, I discovered that all I really needed was a stereo that had a usb port for my Android phone, and a Spotify account.
          What's a Spotify account?
          Done. I'm now streaming my own music in my truck and did it by replacing my stereo rather than adding yet another device that is capable of streaming music, when my cellphone already does that.
          I never listen to music while I drive. It muffles the throaty purring of my engine. That's music to my ears.
          I have no intention of filling up my house with smart appliances. I like my life simple and I have found that the more features something has, the more it costs to repair and the more repairs it requires.
          I keep my life rather simple. Like I said, "WTH is Spotify???"
          Not all of us are made of money.
          Well, I'll admit that I'm not exactly clipping coupons, but I'm far from made of money. lol

          Cheers. - Frank
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10508549].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

            I thought maybe you were looking for a boyfriend from across the globe. :-)
            What's a Spotify account?
            I never listen to music while I drive. It muffles the throaty purring of my engine. That's music to my ears.
            I keep my life rather simple. Like I said, "WTH is Spotify???"
            Well, I'll admit that I'm not exactly clipping coupons, but I'm far from made of money. lol

            Cheers. - Frank
            I don't clip coupons but I don't spend recklessly either.

            Spotify. It's sort of like iTunes, but much better. For $9.99/mnth, you can earmark all the music you want and choose what you want to play at any time. You can even download for listening offline across multiple gadgets, including your desktop computer, your cell phone, a tablet, etc. I really enjoy it on the new stereo in the truck and listen to in my office from my desktop.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10508566].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
              Banned
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              I don't clip coupons but I don't spend recklessly either.

              Spotify. It's sort of like iTunes, but much better. For $9.99/mnth, you can earmark all the music you want and choose what you want to play at any time. You can even download for listening offline across multiple gadgets, including your desktop computer, your cell phone, a tablet, etc. I really enjoy it on the new stereo in the truck and listen to in my office from my desktop.
              I may have to look into that before I die. That said, I have 3,000 MP3 files of most of the music I care to listen to and I find about only one song per month of new music that I would consider adding to my personal playlist.

              I just cancelled my Sirius XM account which came with the Bimmer. I never listen to music while I'm driving and never while I am at work at the computer. My random thoughts are much more entertaining and valuable than anything I might hear on the radio. :-) I'm the rock star in my world.

              Cheers. - Frank
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10508587].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                I may have to look into that before I die. That said, I have 3,000 MP3 files of most of the music I care to listen to and I find about only one song per month of new music that I would consider adding to my personal playlist.

                I just cancelled my Sirius XM account which came with the Bimmer. I never listen to music while I'm driving and never while I am at work at the computer. My random thoughts are much more entertaining and valuable than anything I might hear on the radio. :-) I'm the rock star in my world.

                Cheers. - Frank
                I thought of the usb/3,000 mp3 file option and just thought that downloading/creating those files, and storing them was too time consuming, plus playing them from a usb, you don't get to pick and choose and see what you want to play first. With spotify, I can choose a song or an album or a playlist and I don't need to store it anywhere ... not even my phone. I just stream it.

                I used to not listen to music in the office, but I'm really enjoying some music breaks now, and I love it in the truck. I listened to the radio before, but there is only one rock and roll station around here and the host is an assmonkey.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10508600].message }}

Trending Topics