Advice needed on upgrading my laptop's RAM!

[jchengery]

Hello everyone,

I've never upgraded my laptop's RAM before, so I'm not even sure if I am looking at the right module. Therefore, any advice on how to determine the correct RAM module and installing it would be greatly appreciated - thanks!

I have a Toshiba A75-S213 laptop - you can see the specifics here:
Toshiba Satellite A75-S213 (Mobile Pentium 4 548 3.33 GHz, 1 GB RAM, 100 GB HDD) specs and Laptop specifications - CNET Reviews

What I'm wondering is, is the following the correct RAM module to get to boost the laptop from 1GB to 1.5GB?
Newegg.com - Crucial 1GB 200-Pin DDR SO-DIMM DDR 333 (PC 2700) Laptop Memory Model CT12864X335 - Laptop Memory
(Crucial 1GB 200-Pin DDR SO-DIMM DDR 333 (PC 2700) Laptop Memory Model CT12864X335 - Retail)

I've heard Crucial Memory is a good memory provider (is this correct or not?) and their memory selector tool at Newegg.com came up with the RAM module above. I'm just curious to know if there's a way to make sure that it is the correct RAM module before I purchase it?

This is the Crucial Memory selector tool at Newegg.com:
Newegg.com

I'm not familiar with terms like "unbuffered" and "CL = 2.5" - how do I know if that will work in my laptop or not? That's probably why I never bothered to upgrade my laptop's RAM before, but being that the price is very reasonable, I am reconsidering it, especially since my next laptop may have 4-6GB RAM and will likely be upgradable to at least 8GB RAM, which could come in handy down the road, so I'd like to learn exactly how to determine what RAM modules my laptop needs to be up to maximum efficiency and performance.

Are the results from memory selector tools, like the Crucial one above, accurate to safely rely on when choosing to upgrade one's laptop RAM? As mentioned above, I'm not familiar with terms like "unbuffered," "CL = 2.5," "200 pins," "SODIMM," etc. - are all memory modules supposed to have that and a specific number of pins or can "buffered" memory modules also be used to upgrade one's laptop? How do you know which to use or which is best for your laptop?

Also, when removing one RAM module and replacing it with another one, will the files and software programs on my laptop still be there after it recognizes the new memory? I take it and will back up my programs before installing the new RAM, but I want to make sure - the laptop doesn't erase any programs or the hard drive when you install new memory into it, does it?

Finally, if for some reason the RAM module doesn't work or isn't recognized, will my laptop still work if I insert the old RAM module back into the laptop? I certainly don't want my laptop to stop working if this RAM module doesn't work as it should.

My laptop is almost 4 years old, and I plan on purchasing a new laptop in the near future (I'm looking especially at the A505 Toshiba series, especially the A505-S6960, A505-S6965, and A505-S6975, though I'd consider the A505-S6967 and A505-S6969 as well, as well as other Toshiba models, such as the P505 series). As mentioned though, since the price is reasonable for upgrading my current laptop's RAM, I was thinking it might be a good purchase because I can maximize my current laptop's performance (would that make it run cooler as well?) during the rest of its life.

I'd appreciate any and all advice you can provide - thank you.

Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

Sincerely,

Joe Chengery III

[seasoned]

Jchengery,

Laptop memory never TRULY got a real standard. ALSO, they no longer really make MEMORY to be sold to the mass market. They are memory MODULES. They have ALL SORTS. The BASE technology is likely pretty much IDENTICAL, like almost all diskdrives today are likely RLL. Still, like those disk drives, you can't order the base stuff anymore and, if you could, the systems aren't made to work with it. Just TRY to get an RLL drive! They may ALL be RLL but today they ALL have HBAs and it is like are they SSA, EIDE, USB, FIREWIRE, SCSI, etc...

The Moral? DON'T expect ANY memory purchased for your current laptop to be compatible with the new one. ALSO, DON'T expect the installation to be all that similar(except MAYBE the very last step).

Crucial memory IS good.

Basically, there is no set STANDARD as to what differences can be tolerated, so I wouldn't try. When memory was sold to the general public, there was access time and type and type would work as long as it fit and all multiplexed pins were handled, and faster access times would always work. TODAY, things are just more complicated.

Details are usually specified in the owners manual for your laptop.

The memory modules you are dealing with are RAM! As long as you do it RIGHT, NOTHING will be hurt or lost. Everything will look pretty much as it does NOW!

If the memory is not properly recognized, but doesn't short out your system, it may degrade, or only partiall improve performance, or may cause it to fail to boot. In such a case, simply try to set it up as it was and HOPEFULLY it will boot.

The laptop MIGHT run cooler *****IF***** you have VERY inefficient programs that cause the harddrive to swap a LOT and this makes it so it doesn't. It may also make it run HOTTER because the airflow isn't as great and/or there is more memory to draw power.

MY advice? Get another computer. Computers today are FAR faster, and can have more memory. They also weigh less. And 512MB doesn't buy you much these days.

Steve

[jchengery]

Hello Steve,

Thank you for your advice - greatly appreciated!

Thinking about it more (before and after your reply), I'm leaning toward leaving my current laptop alone and letting it "live out its life" with it's pre-installed 1GB RAM - it's been pretty good with it, and I'd hate to potentially ruin it just to gain another 512MB RAM.

If I may ask, if I did get another computer (and as mentioned, I am thinking about another Toshiba Satellite, especially in the A505 series), would you still advise being leery of upgrading the RAM on it as well, or did you advise that mostly because my current laptop is nearly 4 years old? In other words, is upgrading the newer laptops of today from 4 or 6GB RAM to 8GB RAM worth it or not really?

I am considering getting a new laptop also because of the free (or nearly free if I have to pay for shipping) upgrade to Windows 7, but I'm curious to know whether 4GB RAM is enough to run Windows 7 well? I've heard and read that it should (just as Windows Vista reportedly will work well with 4GB RAM), but am curious if anyone who already has it (I've heard some have received early access to it, mostly in IT, I think) knows whether Windows 7 works well with 4GB RAM.

Again, I appreciate the info. you provided and any additional info. you and anyone else provides - thank you.

Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

Sincerely,

Joe Chengery III

[njguy55]

Hi Joe C III, Me I like IBM, I buy my laptops on eBay and I only use XP, The one I like the must is the T60 or T60p, Now the Toshiba a good laptop but it has a heat Ishue so I stay away, And I use crucial ram for years never had a one go bad.

Well Good Luck

[KimW]

They both are right about Crucial RAM, rarely will it go bad on you.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by jchengery

Hello Steve,

Thank you for your advice - greatly appreciated!

Thinking about it more (before and after your reply), I'm leaning toward leaving my current laptop alone and letting it "live out its life" with it's pre-installed 1GB RAM - it's been pretty good with it, and I'd hate to potentially ruin it just to gain another 512MB RAM.

If I may ask, if I did get another computer (and as mentioned, I am thinking about another Toshiba Satellite, especially in the A505 series), would you still advise being leery of upgrading the RAM on it as well, or did you advise that mostly because my current laptop is nearly 4 years old? In other words, is upgrading the newer laptops of today from 4 or 6GB RAM to 8GB RAM worth it or not really?

Upgrading memory often IS worth it. It is simply that that other computer is SO old and SO slow and it is such a MEAGER upgrade. Heck, I got a netbook, for a number of reasons. It WAS a step down in features, size, and expandability, but it IS smaller, has more battery life, and is lighter. Anyway, I upgraded it to it's maximum which was just 2GB, from the 1GB. And the days are gone when memory you purchase today is likely to be usable in your next system.

ALSO, you spoke of thinking about getting a new system.

Originally Posted by jchengery

I am considering getting a new laptop also because of the free (or nearly free if I have to pay for shipping) upgrade to Windows 7, but I'm curious to know whether 4GB RAM is enough to run Windows 7 well? I've heard and read that it should (just as Windows Vista reportedly will work well with 4GB RAM), but am curious if anyone who already has it (I've heard some have received early access to it, mostly in IT, I think) knows whether Windows 7 works well with 4GB RAM.

I couldn't give an opinion there, but vista is JUNK, as far as I am concerned. A friend of mine DID say windows 7 is a LOT better though. The MAXIMUM limit for 32bit windows 7 is 4GB!!!!! I have strayed from keeping up on such things, so I don't know if they have a driver for memory over 4GB, as they used to. For the most part though, driver or not, 4GB is THE limit! The 64bit version has levels, with the first starting at an 8GB limit.

BTW that does NOT mean your system can't have 16GB+ installed, etc... It will merely use what it is able to use. Last I knew, Intel STILL had this feature I always thought was STUPID, called segments. They USED to be fixed at 64KB, and THAT is why older software had the "memory models", and older systems have different types of memory. NOW, last I knew, they could be expanded to 4GB. That means that, as long as the address range doesn't go over 32bits(4GB on a 32bit data bus), the memory seems FLAT. Like most processors in use at the time. The PROBLEM is that addressing memory outside of that area gets tricky. With OLDER systems, until they switched segment sizes, they did a lot of funny tricks with registers. That was far from perfect, so excess memory was often used for disks and diskcaching. If you play none of those tricks, the memory over 4GB will merely wait until some program some day CAN access it.

Steve

[jchengery]

Hello njguy55, KimW, and Steve,

I appreciate all the great advice - thank you.

Steve - thank you for clarifying regarding the memory - greatly appreciated! I thought I had heard about 32-bit Windows 7 is 4GB (I think I heard Vista 32-bit also only uses 4GB at most, and maybe only 3-3.5GB ; it can't utilize more than that. To utilize more, you have to have 64-bit Vista, so I wondered if Windows 7 worked in the same way).

Chances are, the next laptop I get will probably have 64-bit Vista (or maybe Windows 7, though it might be via the "free" upgrade option), so my next laptop can probably utilize over 4GB RAM.

That reminds me of one other question - I was looking at memory modules (from Crucial, both at their website and at Newegg) and was wondering - they have both an 8GB kit (2 X 4GB) and a 4GB module. Now, I'm not entirely sure, but I think the laptops I'm looking at that have 4GB RAM pre-installed and that can be upgraded to 8GB RAM have one 4GB RAM (specifically, the Toshiba Satellite A505-S6960, A505-S6965, and A505-S6975; essentially any of the A505 series) in them.

Therefore, what would be the best course of action to upgrade it to 8GB RAM (if I choose to do so)?

1. Install just a Crucial 4GB RAM module into the second slot (which would cost approximately $200-$230, cheaper than option #2, but would involve mixing a Crucial memory module with the pre-installed Toshiba memory module).

2. Install an 8GB RAM kit (2 X 4 GB) into both slots (this would cost $400-$450, but I heard that the performance can be better if both modules are the same manufacturer, as some modules from different manufacturers may not "mix" that well. I'd consider this option, though it is more expensive, so if mixing a Crucial memory module with a Toshiba memory module would work well, please feel free to state that).

I know also that memory modules do drop in price over time, but when would be the opportune time to purchase a memory module at the best price and still have it be "worth upgrading"? I know you mentioned that upgrading my A75-S213 would not be worth it because it's too old, but I wonder when a laptop is not so old to consider upgrading it, yet at the same time, still experience a savings on the memory module because it's not "brand new" or "relatively new" as modules that the A505 series use currently are? I hope this question makes sense.

Again, I'd appreciate any and all info. and advice you can provide - thank you.

Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

Sincerely,

Joe Chengery III

[jchengery]

Hello Nathan,

I appreciate the info. regarding your book - thank you. I'll make sure to check out your offer.

Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

Sincerely,

Joe Chengery III

[seasoned]

jchengery.

Decoding circuitry can get VERY expensive, and plans to an upgrade method change. So different systems allow different configurations. With some laptops, for example, a 4GB memory module may only give you 2GB or even 1GB! Let's say it has 4 slots, each slot may only accept 1GB! Your 4GB would still work, but only show up as 1GB.

It is like a 386 I have. The address bus on the CPU can handle 4GB. The sip forrmat can handle like 16MB. I have 4 SIP slots. You would think 4*16=64MB, RIGHT? Well, it is limited to 4MB. Each sip can only be up to 1MB. ALSO, as I recall, you have to load them in pairs, so 1 1MB sip wouldn't give you 1MB. You would need 2 512K sips for that.

SEE, I told you it can get complicated!

The ONLY way you can really get your question answered is to go to the laptop guide, or something similar.

Steve

[jchengery]

Hello Steve,

I greatly appreciate the additional info. - thank you. Yes, it's very complicated, more so than I originally thought!

Thanks again for the great info. - I'll have to carefully check the laptop specs before proceeding on upgrading my RAM when I get my new laptop, provided I choose to do so right away (maybe I'll give my mind a rest and do some careful research before deciding to take the plunge in upgrading my RAM :-).

Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

Sincerely,

Joe Chengery III

[Mike Wright]

Hi Joe,

go with the crucial memory selection. On the Crucial.com website, the
selector tool should also give a maximum memory size for the laptop.
My gues is that it will state a maximum of 2Gb with a max of 1Gb per
memory slot.

Roughly XP takes about 350 Mb of ram to run .... and Vista about
500Mb.

Depending on what you are doing, maxing the allowable ram can
reduce disk/pagefile accesses which means the HD runs a touch
cooler, quieter and increases its life/reliability... also battery life
is slightly improved.

You can get a touch more speed by changing the standard
4200 rpm drives for a 5400 or even a 7200 rpm 2.5" ide laptop
drive .... but there is no increase to be obtained buying RAM
faster than PC2700/DDR333 at CL2.5 ...thats as fast as the
laptop hardware allows. Good luck

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by jchengery

I think I heard Vista 32-bit also only uses 4GB at most, and maybe only 3-3.5GB ; it can't utilize more than that.

Just to let you know, though Mike did kind of cover it, ALL the O/S use memory, and windows is known for being a real HOG! Not only is there memory required for the kernel, most of the DLLs, some services, maybe servers, etc.... But ALSO for a TON of buffers.

That means that windows vista may not even have 1GB free on a 2GB machine! Of course, Windows DOES have something THEY call VM(Virtual Memory). I think it is very poorly implemented, but at least it is SOMETHING. It allows it to swap IDLE stuff to disk to run more stuff. That is also one of the reasons more memory may mean better performance and less power/heat. The disk drive requires far more power, and generates more heat, and most laptops turn it off after a time(so it won't spin like an hour for nothing, and waste the battery.).

Steve

[jchengery]

Hello Mike and Steve,

Mike - good to talk with you again! Crucial seems like a good company, and presumably, its selector tool should match up the right RAM with the right machine - it seems like that would be the right RAM module. Thank you for the info. - greatly appreciated!

Steve - thank you again for the great info. as well - greatly appreciated! Yes, it seems like Windows is a real "hog" when it comes to resources - at one time, my laptop was pretty speedy, but now it struggles with a number of basic to intermediate functions.

Of course, there are far more files on the laptop than there were a few years ago, the technology has gotten updated (video and audio files, Windows XP SP 2 & 3, etc.) while my laptop has not, and my laptop and battery are older, so a dropoff in performance would be expected.

However, that's partly why I am inquiring about changing the RAM - even if I don't upgrade the RAM in my current laptop, I would likely consider it for my next laptop (and being that Windows 7 will be provided for free or for a relatively low shipping cost, it likely would be sooner rather than later when I would get that new laptop), being that Windows Vista, and especially Windows 7, are more advanced and use more resources than XP.

That's why I wondered if 4GB would be enough to run Windows 7 (or even Vista), or if it would be better to upgrade to 8GB, and if so, if it's better to get 1 4GB module (I think the A505 series that have 4GB pre-installed RAM have 1 4GB module already in them - will have to double-check that to make sure) or if it's better to put an 8GB kit of the same memory manufacturer (Crucial) in it.

The information you, Mike, and everyone else in this thread have provided has been very helpful and is making me carefully consider my next moves in regards to my current laptop and the new laptop I'll likely get in the near future (probably within the next 5 months or so, if not in a matter of weeks) - thank you.

Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

Sincerely,

Joe Chengery III