Can someone show me the exact steps to delete a thread on WF?...

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Can someone show me the exact steps to delete a thread on WF?...

I want to be able to post a thread to get some sensible advice from GENUINELY HELPFUL warriors -- but then, when the (descriptive words deleted due to decorum) people jump on to ruin the thread with their predictable, arrogant, WISE-ASSERY, I can just delete the entire thread.

Just need to know the steps to delete an entire thread (that I have started).

Thanks.

-- TW
  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    You can't. A Mod might.
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  • Profile picture of the author irawr
    Banned
    Wow that thread got out of control. Did you report it? I would just hit report and say that you were requesting a deletion of the thread because of what happened.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
      Originally Posted by irawr View Post

      Wow that thread got out of control. Did you report it? I would just hit report and say that you were requesting a deletion of the thread because of what happened.
      The exact same 2 or 3 people jump on to these threads and post their self-important arrogant wise-guy non-helpful comments -- and rather than ignore them, I'd like to be able to just REMOVE the entire thread so their jibberish will be unseen by others.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
        I'm pretty sure only mods can delete a thread.

        Unfortunately, you can't control the responses you get - all you can do is report them if they are violating forum rules.

        Edited to add: Just looked at the thread. Timothy, no one in that thread has violated forum rules. Quite frankly, your reactions in the thread aren't helping your reputation. You got some very good advice, even if you didn't want to hear most of it.

        It's silly to expect the mods to delete a thread you start just because you don't like some of the responses you get.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

          I'm pretty sure only mods can delete a thread.

          Unfortunately, you can't control the responses you get - all you can do is report them if they are violating forum rules.

          Edited to add: Just looked at the thread. Timothy, no one in that thread has violated forum rules. Quite frankly, your reactions in the thread aren't helping your reputation. You got some very good advice, even if you didn't want to hear most of it.

          It's silly to expect the mods to delete a thread you start just because you don't like some of the responses you get.
          I invite you to read that thread again. There are a few people who have made it their business to become "the face" of this forum. Take a close look at the tone and content of the posts by these people. It's a snark fest. An arrogant snark fest. THAT is hurting the forum, imo.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

            I invite you to read that thread again. There are a few people who have made it their business to become "the face" of this forum. Take a close look at the tone and content of the posts by these people. It's a snark fest. An arrogant snark fest. THAT is hurting the forum, imo.
            Actually, Timothy, you lost interest in that thread when people advised you to refund that customer's money ($60) when after 7 days, you had done nothing to deserve a red cent of it. Logo job was supposed to be complete in 10 days, she gave a deposit, and on day 7, all you've done is "thought about it." Right.
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    Just read the entire thread, minus some of your deleted posts...
    I don't see a thread "getting out of control" i don't see people being overly abrasive or rude, all i saw was differing opinions, some of which you didn't like...

    A thread shouldn't be deleted just because it didn't go the way you wanted, it's a forum, you post and people reply....

    And that's all i'm gonna say about that...


    Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

    I invite you to read that thread again. There are a few people who have made it their business to become "the face" of this forum.
    Don't know what that's supposed to mean..



    Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

    Take a close look at the tone and content of the posts by these people. It's a snark fest. An arrogant snark fest. THAT is hurting the forum, imo.
    Sorry but you either have a thin skin or just took it the wrong way.... "Arrogant snark fest" is not what i saw....
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      If you don't want opinions - you shouldn't start a thread.

      You asked a question that most experienced freelancers would have covered either upfront (non-refundable deposit) or decided on their own if they had the problem.

      You could have thanked people for their opinions and done what you pleased - but you didn't. You argued with opinions - after asking for opinions.

      The worst part of the thread is not the responses. It's the impression you give of your personality when you edit a title and remove all your comments from a thread you started. That's petty - doesn't say anything good about how you do business.

      One insightful comment from the thread you are complaining about:

      I think the fact that you have thanked only those that are telling you what you want to hear says a lot, but I'm not here to judge.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    You can't. You're stuck with the thread you started unless a mod deletes it. Too bad about all that advice that you don't want to hear about that logo job.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Why do you even care what random people think when it comes to your money? Personally I could care less what anyone else thinks, it's none of their business.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Why do you even care what random people think when it comes to your money? Personally I could care less what anyone else thinks, it's none of their business.
      It's none of their business until you start a thread and ask everyone's opinions about it and then get all bent when you don't like the opinions. lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author alistair
        I have to say, I do think the 7-10 days thing might be a bit harsh. He might have had other projects to get finished first before starting on the new one.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
          Originally Posted by alistair View Post

          I have to say, I do think the 7-10 days thing might be a bit harsh. He might have had other projects to get finished first before starting on the new one.
          Yes, of course -- and this is obvious.

          ... and ignored by those who make it their hobby to do "drive by" responses that are more about taking a s--t on the OP -- then inwardly snickering about it, than about thoughtful, helpful responses. If I want to be the subject of a roast, I'll call the Friar's Club. -- Like I said, it's the usual suspects who are all about the arrogant shi--ing upon people that ruins many threads.

          If you look, you'll see at least one post that is ALL about going OFF TOPIC, and criticizing the OP's work ethic, and creative abilities, etc. -- with the FOCUS not being on addressing the topic of the OP, but ALL ABOUT cruising by and taking a little s--t upon the person -- EVEN WHEN THE CONTENT (upon scrutiny) of the comment, makes absolutely no sense, and is not reality-based). Then, I'm quite sure that commenter cruised on to the next post, to take a little sh-t on THAT person, etc, etc.

          My OP was asking about something in particular. It had NOTHING to do with my work ethic or the quality of my work or how I set up my work flow, etc. But that didn't stop the usual suspects from weighing in on THOSE aspects, WITHOUT any knowledge about me, or how I work, AND in such a way that is EASILY rebutted with just a MOMENT'S THOUGHT. But these usual suspects DON'T WANT to take that moment's thought. They would MUCH RATHER be able to continue flitting about from post to post, taking their little s--ts upon whomever they please. One can only conclude, it's their HOBBY.

          Look for yourselves -- and if you're being honest with yourselves, you'll be able to pick out EXACTLY what I'm talking about -- without me needing to get more specific here.

          If this keeps being allowed to happen, then those usual suspects, and how they conduct themselves, becomes THE FACE of this forum.

          PS: You don't even have to go to other thread to see what I'm talking about. Same s-itt--g upon syndrome has happened on THIS thread. Again, not reality-based commentary - only purpose is to take a little sh-t upon people - A MOMENT'S thought would show that to be the case - it's just a mindless hobby, it seems. The sad part is, when you have a bull in a china shop, sooner or later, there's no more china.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

            If you look, you'll see at least one post that is ALL about going OFF TOPIC, and criticizing the OP's work ethic, and creative abilities, etc.
            Expecting that some work would be done already after you have accepted a project and a deposit by the time 7 days out of a 10 day completion date have transpired is not in the least bit Off Topic, as you say.

            I would have checked in with you to inquire how it was coming along and if you told me that after 7 days, all you'd done was spend an hour thinking about it, I would have requested my money back as well and moved on.

            The problem is that neither of you put your expectations in writing. I would have put your milestones in writing and you would have gotten zilch until a milestone was reached. Once a milestone was reached satisfactorily, I would have released a milestone payment from escrow.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              I'm not one who questioned your work ethic - but I do question your attitude.

              You want the answers you want and your response to answers you don't like is to take your words and go home.

              Keep the money - don't keep the money. It's your business and your reputation - no one else's.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Just rename the title, "Please delete this thread" and ask a mod to delete your thread. Delete this one too, as it is just an extension of the first one.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post


                PS: You don't even have to go to other thread to see what I'm talking about. Same s-itt--g upon syndrome has happened on THIS thread. Again, not reality-based commentary - only purpose is to take a little sh-t upon people - A MOMENT'S thought would show that to be the case - it's just a mindless hobby, it seems. The sad part is, when you have a bull in a china shop, sooner or later, there's no more china.
                Wow. LOL.

                Yes, welcome to the snark section. You are in OT land now.

                But I'm going to be non snarky and straight up with you here for a second.

                There were no responses in there (maybe a bad word name calling by someone) that were completely out of line IMO. There were some "personalities" for sure, but no one seemed like they were out to get you and you alone.

                I was happy someone had quoted your original post just so I could evaluate better for myself what you might have thought was happening.

                You were given some great advice actually by some you were too good for to thank.

                It's not what someone else says that will affect you. It's how you respond to it that tells us quite a bit about you.

                We're all different.

                I actually respect someone willing to slap me around and give me some tough love once in a while when something doesn't seem to be working for me.

                [end nice girl type]

                As to your offer, I have someone here on this forum that does FREE mockups before even requesting any money. And I insisted on paying them more money than they asked for because that is in my mind freaking outstanding customer service.

                Just something to think about.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
          Originally Posted by alistair View Post

          I have to say, I do think the 7-10 days thing might be a bit harsh. He might have had other projects to get finished first before starting on the new one.
          Utter and complete rubbish. If you have no time to do a unit of work, don't solicit it, and certainly don't accept it.

          Personally, when I outsource, I state right up front that daily communication is strongly expected, and silence for 72 hours at any point voids the contract.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

            ... Personally, when I outsource, I state right up front that daily communication is strongly expected, and silence for 72 hours at any point voids the contract.


            No offense but I'd refuse that type of client instantly just so the nagging would go away. It's like a 9-5 job with a boss micromanaging. No thanks.
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            • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
              Originally Posted by alistair View Post

              So you're saying people should only advertise for work when they haven't got any?
              The marketplaces with which I work have ways of indicating how much available time a given person has. If someone is so swamped that they know they can't even start for over a week, no, they shouldn't be advertising for even more work.

              Originally Posted by alistair View Post

              For all we know, Timothy might have been recommended to his customer and even if he wasn't if they were happy to wait 7 - 10 days as quoted then where's the issue? They could have just as easily said no.
              Except that they weren't happy with such a long delay, or else they wouldn't've asked for their money back.

              Originally Posted by alistair View Post

              Good for you, but I'm not sure what relevancy this has.
              As a buyer, I make it clear that I expect regular communication. Over the years, I've found that too many sellers just wander away, and the relevancy here is that, by putting consequences in writing, up front, both parties understand the expectations in advance.

              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              No offense but I'd refuse that type of client instantly just so the nagging would go away. It's like a 9-5 job with a boss micromanaging. No thanks.
              That's perfectly fine; no offense taken! The people who have worked for me under such arrangements have been very satisfied with the relationships, and have even stated the benefits of having very clear expectations and directions when they review me as a client. But I do respect your concern that it isn't for everyone.
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            • Profile picture of the author irawr
              Banned
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              No offense but I'd refuse that type of client instantly just so the nagging would go away. It's like a 9-5 job with a boss micromanaging. No thanks.
              You take clients? I gave up on that crap. It makes sense for some people depending on how they run their business.

              I was considering doing coaching but all I did was learn by observing multi million dollar companies. I couldn't imagine taking a call and having somebody ask me a basic question about a strategy I suggested. I would probably blow up and say something a long the lines of: "Look we need sit down and have a heart to heart discussion about this, it's not working for you because you suck at it. Stop trying to emulate what the guy making 20k a month is doing, there's companies making 1000 times that and their campaigns and strategies are just as visible on the internet. You can't really hide internet marketing." That might work for them but then there's no reason to continue the coaching.

              Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

              The post that stuck in my craw the most was the one that FLIPPANTLY questioned my work flow and design methods with a) No rational basis in fact, and b) in a way that had NOTHING to do with the OP.

              If someone is told the job will be completed is 7 to 10 days, how long does it take to actually PERFORM/DO the job? Answer: THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO WAY OF KNOWING.
              Does the client think I'm getting paid $100 for every 10 days of work I do? Does the client think that when I say it will be completed in 10 days, that it will take 10 x 8 hours of WORK for me to make their logo? -- Of course not.

              So there's no way to spit upon someone when they say they've "only" done X amount of work during X number of days. That has NOTHING to do with the OP. And it's OBVIOUS that it has nothing to do with the OP.

              Then, in the SAME post, the fact that I have searched for appropriate images and that somehow calls imto question my ABILITIES, ALSO a) has nothing to do with the OP, and b) is not a reality based criticism! -- as anyone who has designed a logo knows -- but again, this is OBVIOUS (with a moment's thought) -- but that moment's thought was never taken... in favor of doing yet another arrogant, drive-by sh*t-upon.

              Again, if I wanna be the subject of a roast, I'll call the friar's club.
              Man the logo business is rough. I don't usually recommend drugs or alcohol but I think you need to realize that most of the people on these forums don't make any money. Also, if this kind of stuff is a big problem for you, absolutely do not start an Ebay or Amazon business. Holy sh!t some of those people are complete jerks. I am not Mcdonalds, you are not always right and no you can't have it your way. It's a standardized system that's pretty straight forward, you want it, you pay, I ship it, you get it.

              "No I won't give you free shipping if you buy two, it weights 50 pounds... It wasn't what you expected? It's a consumer product sold all over the place, how the f!@# do you not know what you're buying and how is that somehow my problem? Awesome bad feedback aaaaand they want to return, great."

              "I didn't buy this, my cat must have hit the 1 click buy button somehow." Riiight..... Does your cat mind paying for the return shipping?... Awesome, your cat is broke, got it.

              As a buyer on Ebay (won auction very cheap): "Oh sorry, I sold the product to somebody else and didn't realize I had an auction up." You can't be serious... What did the auction make itself? The camera took the pictures on it's own? Wow.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        It's none of their business until you start a thread and ask everyone's opinions about it and then get all bent when you don't like the opinions. lol.

        That was my point, there's no reason asking others opinions about his money when he's just going to do whatever he wants regardless. If he's on the fence about keeping the money I doubt he's doing any refunds & that's his choice, has nothing to do with anyone else.

        I've never had anyone walk up to me on the street asking If they should keep money.

        The internet has no shame, lol.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          I've never had anyone walk up to me on the street asking If they should keep money.

          The internet has no shame, lol.
          Quite true. The only real question I would have to honestly answer myself is, did I do $60 worth of work on this project and if so, I would keep the deposit. If I had nothing to show the customers ... not a single concept, I would return the money.
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  • Profile picture of the author alistair
    Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

    Utter and complete rubbish. If you have no time to do a unit of work, don't solicit it, and certainly don't accept it.
    So you're saying people should only advertise for work when they haven't got any?

    For all we know, Timothy might have been recommended to his customer and even if he wasn't if they were happy to wait 7 - 10 days as quoted then where's the issue? They could have just as easily said no.

    Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

    Personally, when I outsource, I state right up front that daily communication is strongly expected, and silence for 72 hours at any point voids the contract.
    Good for you, but I'm not sure what relevancy this has.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    The post that stuck in my craw the most was the one that FLIPPANTLY questioned my work flow and design methods with a) No rational basis in fact, and b) in a way that had NOTHING to do with the OP.

    If someone is told the job will be completed is 7 to 10 days, how long does it take to actually PERFORM/DO the job? Answer: THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO WAY OF KNOWING.
    Does the client think I'm getting paid $100 for every 10 days of work I do? Does the client think that when I say it will be completed in 10 days, that it will take 10 x 8 hours of WORK for me to make their logo? -- Of course not.

    So there's no way to spit upon someone when they say they've "only" done X amount of work during X number of days. That has NOTHING to do with the OP. And it's OBVIOUS that it has nothing to do with the OP.

    Then, in the SAME post, the fact that I have searched for appropriate images and that somehow calls imto question my ABILITIES, ALSO a) has nothing to do with the OP, and b) is not a reality based criticism! -- as anyone who has designed a logo knows -- but again, this is OBVIOUS (with a moment's thought) -- but that moment's thought was never taken... in favor of doing yet another arrogant, drive-by sh*t-upon.

    Again, if I wanna be the subject of a roast, I'll call the friar's club.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

      The post that stuck in my craw the most was the one that FLIPPANTLY questioned my work flow and design methods with a) No rational basis in fact, and b) in a way that had NOTHING to do with the OP.

      If someone is told the job will be completed is 7 to 10 days, how long does it take to actually PERFORM/DO the job? Answer: THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO WAY OF KNOWING.
      Does the client think I'm getting paid $100 for every 10 days of work I do? Does the client think that when I say it will be completed in 10 days, that it will take 10 x 8 hours of WORK for me to make their logo? -- Of course not.

      So there's no way to spit upon someone when they say they've "only" done X amount of work during X number of days. That has NOTHING to do with the OP. And it's OBVIOUS that it has nothing to do with the OP.

      Then, in the SAME post, the fact that I have searched for appropriate images and that somehow calls imto question my ABILITIES, ALSO a) has nothing to do with the OP, and b) is not a reality based criticism! -- as anyone who has designed a logo knows -- but again, this is OBVIOUS (with a moment's thought) -- but that moment's thought was never taken... in favor of doing yet another arrogant, drive-by sh*t-upon.

      Again, if I wanna be the subject of a roast, I'll call the friar's club.
      Tough beanos ... don't start threads then if you don't like the answers. At 7 days you hadn't even started this man's project. And I do call in your search for images. Didn't the client hire you for original art?

      As for knowledge about graphic design, I was one of Elance's top designers for many years. I charged $350 for logos. I know how long they took and I know how to create original artwork for the brands I worked for. I know that when you finally get around to submitting concepts, the client usually picks their favorite concept(s) and asks for changes. If at 7 days, you still haven't got a clue what you are going to do for this client, you probably aren't going to give them what they want by the 10 day limit that you promised him.

      PS: Why don't you start a third thread about a thread that you want to delete? See if it turns out any differently for you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Does the client think..
        Clearly the client believed 7-10 days gave them time to reconsider who they hired for the job.

        If it were me I'd be thinking about my time frame and whether it was losing clients....I'd be changing the wording to indicate 'non-refundable' after a certrain point, etc.

        You choose to blast anything who didn't respond in the way you wanted - and to argue after the fact with your non-existent client.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Clearly the client believed 7-10 days gave them time to reconsider who they hired for the job.
          It's all about creating that demand when you are scheduling out.

          If make an appointment for a good hair cutting place, I'm going to not expect to pay until I get there but also expect if I cancel out too many times I may not get the offer to schedule any more.

          A better example, my friend bought us 2 spa reservations, and we had up till a day before to cancel or lose the deposit. Reasons for that deposit are valid in that the girls need to know they are getting something for their effort of driving in for the day, and others would schedule in that time if we didn't take it.

          If you have to schedule out, there really should be a "you can change your mind by this time" set in place IMO.
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      • Profile picture of the author irawr
        Banned
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Tough beanos ... don't start threads then if you don't like the answers.
        Yeah. Uh, that statement doesn't make any sense.

        How would he know what kind of answers he was going to get before he started the thread?

        That comment is also pretty rude. Why are you kicking a guy who's having a problem?

        Were you the client? Did he screw you over or something?

        I think it's hard for good people to foresee the bad things that other people will do. That's pretty obvious right? He got screwed on a job and now he's been attacked by a pack of hyenas twice now over a question on these forums.

        To TimothyW: I highly you suggest you just consider not coming to these forums. After having some issues with the mods yesterday and observing the stuff going on here, I think I might take that advice myself. I've been considering changing my password to random characters for awhile now. These forums are really give and take, sometimes there's intelligent discussion and other times it's a bunch of vile people acting like children.

        I also think that at some point, some of the regulars get so used to posting, that they stop thinking about what they're posting and don't consider if they should.
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        • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
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          Originally Posted by irawr View Post

          Yeah. Uh, that statement doesn't make any sense.

          How would he know what kind of answers he was going to get before he started the thread?

          That comment is also pretty rude. Why are you kicking a guy who's having a problem?

          Were you the client? Did he screw you over or something?

          I think it's hard for good people to foresee the bad things that other people will do. That's pretty obvious right? He got screwed on a job and now he's been attacked by a pack of hyenas twice now over a question on these forums.

          To TimothyW: I highly you suggest you just consider not coming to these forums. After having some issues with the mods yesterday and observing the stuff going on here, I think I might take that advice myself. I've been considering changing my password to random characters for awhile now. These forums are really give and take, sometimes there's intelligent discussion and other times it's a bunch of vile people acting like children.

          I also think that at some point, some of the regulars get so used to posting, that they stop thinking about what they're posting and don't consider if they should.
          Well said that man. Please don't leave, this place needs all the decent folk it can get.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by irawr View Post

          I think it's hard for good people to foresee the bad things that other people will do. That's pretty obvious right? He got screwed on a job and now he's been attacked by a pack of hyenas twice now over a question on these forums.
          Who got screwed on a job... Him? lol. He's trying to get and keep $60 for not doing a fricking thing. I call that screwing the client over and then coming here and get everyone to bolster up his position with yeah ... bro. You deserve that $60. You thought about stuff for an hour.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            You deserve that $60. You thought about stuff for an hour.
            Well darn it, I've been going about this whole business all wrong!

            I can get money just for thinking about things? Where's the WSO.....

            On the flip side, let me be "helpful" to the others who don't like some attitudes.

            There is this handy little "ignore" feature that lets you block out all replies from people who are on your ignore list.

            I'll leave it up to you to go find it - but it exists.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Amazing how people turn the story around when they decide to fight about it, isn't it?

            When you tell a customer "give me money now but I can't get to this for 7-10 days" - that (new) customer may feel they have 7-10 days to think about it.

            Of course it's disappointing but if YOU didn't provide details of "non refundable deposit" - it can happen. The customer had time to find a cheaper option - or a faster option....or a freelancer recommended by a friend....

            That's what happened here - the customer changed her mind within the "not doing anything yet" time frame.


            We can learn from this -

            Define terms clearly
            Be specific about payment and refunds or lack thereof
            Do not procrastinate on the work
            Take only work you have time for


            ...or we can sit around bashing a customer who clearly was willing and able to pay. People rethink their decisions all the time - we know that happens. As a freelancer, you have to plan for that and cover yourself against that possibility.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


              We can learn from this -

              Define terms clearly
              Be specific about payment and refunds or lack thereof
              Do not procrastinate on the work
              Take only work you have time for

              .
              Absolutely brilliant advice. It's even more amazing, considering that it's coming from a woman.

              (Not in the face! Not in the face!)
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            You deserve that $60. You thought about stuff for an hour.
            Years ago, I had a client that paid me a huge fee for designing a sales program.

            At the end of the first week, he called and I told him that I had been thinking about him for an hour. He asked, "What were you thinking about?"

            I said, "The fact that you paid me up front before I did any work".

            He said, "I don't mind paying for thinking about the project. Was it a good idea you came up with?"

            I said, "No. It was actually a series of bad ideas, that would never work"

            He said, "You want me to pay you for ideas that don't work?"

            I said, "No. You're paying me for not telling you about them, wasting your time".

            He said, "Are you just making this story up to be funny?"

            I said, "Yes. I'm just wasting time, until I have my next customer walk in, so I wrote this dumb post because I thought it was funny"

            He said, "Are you saying I'm just an imaginary customer, and this whole discussion is just a joke?"

            I said, "Yes. I made the whole thing up, including you".

            He said, "Then I want a refund".
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          • Profile picture of the author irawr
            Banned
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Who got screwed on a job... Him? lol. He's trying to get and keep $60 for not doing a fricking thing. I call that screwing the client over and then coming here and get everyone to bolster up his position with yeah ... bro. You deserve that $60. You thought about stuff for an hour.
            That's not how I see it. He lost $40 at the very least.

            My advice was to return the $60. The post is still there. The problem here is that this could snowball easily (it might be already.)

            Edit: Apparently I'm also reading his posts differently. I'm interpreting what he's asking as "I know I don't have to give a refund, but should I do it anyways?" and other people were turning this around and think he's asking "It's okay to keep this right?" Kind of hard to tell since he removed most of his posts but I know when I responded, it seemed pretty clear to me what he was asking. The thread almost immediately turned into an analysis of whether or not he could, I'm pretty sure he was asking what he should do.

            Lets be realistic about this, if his intent was to screw the client over, why did he need to ask here? "OK WF, so I'm about to screw this client over, I got all my T's crossed and my I's dotted right?"

            Seems kinda pointless to me?

            I think he was put into a difficult situation by the client he did not anticipate.

            That's kind of tough don't you think? On one hand you're allowing yourself to be trampled on, on the other, it could hurt you more in the long run.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by irawr View Post

              That's not how I see it. He lost $40 at the very least.

              My advice was to return the $60. The post is still there. The problem here is that this could snowball easily (it might be already.)

              Edit: Apparently I'm also reading his posts differently. I'm interpreting what he's asking as "I know I don't have to give a refund, but should I do it anyways?" and other people were turning this around and think he's asking "It's okay to keep this right?" Kind of hard to tell since he removed most of his posts but I know when I responded, it seemed pretty clear to me what he was asking. The thread almost immediately turned into an analysis of whether or not he could, I'm pretty sure he was asking what he should do.

              Lets be realistic about this, if his intent was to screw the client over, why did he need to ask here? "OK WF, so I'm about to screw this client over, I got all my T's crossed and my I's dotted right?"

              Seems kinda pointless to me?

              I think he was put into a difficult situation by the client he did not anticipate.

              That's kind of tough don't you think? On one hand you're allowing yourself to be trampled on, on the other, it could hurt you more in the long run.

              I look at it from the client's point of view, which is how I built up an excellent reputation on Elance. I took a 50% deposit also, but I would never procrastinate and have nothing to show the customer by Day 7 of a 10-Day project. By Day 7, I would have at least 3 well developed concepts for the client to look at. In fact, they were so well developed, that the client often chose one without alterations. I would then get a glowing feedback from the client that not only did I hit it spot on first time around, but completed the project under the timeframe. They would then order the additional stationery packages and brochures from me because of the work I had completed and my complete attention to their project.

              Let's say this client of his shot him an email on Day 7 and inquired about the progress and found out there was no progress. Customer is now very nervous that they chose the wrong designer because they've paid a deposit and don't even have a concept to look over. Customer decides to bail on the project and not receiving even one concept, requests his money back. I think that's a reasonable request. Client gets nothing. Designer gets nothing and both go on to do what they do.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                Really? You deduce that my calling for people not to be mean spirited and to stop attacking others as trolling? You can't help yourself can you. So again, if you've got nothing nice to say.
                I deduce that you and I have 2 completely different definitions of "mean spirited" and "attacking."

                Who are you to determine that I can only say what you want to qualify as "nice"?

                I've looked at some other business forums, and it's their lack of debates and perhaps some of the trying to be too nice that turns me off from joining them.

                I want real people to talk to that aren't afraid to tell me straight out how they feel - and if they entertain me in some way too with their answer that isn't all about fluffy bunnies and rainbows with unicorns and sunshine then even better.

                Now if this forum is a bit too colorful for you, then you have 2 options. 1. Find that ignore feature I mentioned previously, or 2. go find a nice fluffy cloud forum where you can all drink the same koolaid and enjoy.

                All I can say is I've been here a tad bit longer than you, and don't plan to leave - unless they force that feed thing on me again, lol.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
                  Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                  I deduce that you and I have 2 completely different definitions of "mean spirited" and "attacking."

                  Who are you to determine that I can only say what you want to qualify as "nice"?
                  I already posted exactly what I meant, in detail.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                    Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

                    I already posted exactly what I meant, in detail.
                    Um, my reply was not to you (didn't quote you) - but whatever.

                    Look, if you are looking for canned straight forward answers on a subject with people who have no personality what so ever then perhaps posting your questions on a forum that is for the most part free to anyone one the web is not your best resource.

                    Just sayin'
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Banned
    Have you ever heard of the Barbra streisand effect Tim? Just let it go man.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    We choose how we internalize what other people say. You chose to be offended. You might want to ask yourself why.
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  • Profile picture of the author alistair
    Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

    The marketplaces with which I work have ways of indicating how much available time a given person has. If someone is so swamped that they know they can't even start for over a week, no, they shouldn't be advertising for even more work.
    He gave the lady a time frame which she was happy to accept.

    My best writer used to work on Freelancer. If I'd offer her a project she'd tell me how long it would take, and because she's a good writer she normally had a lot of work on. If I was happy to wait then I'd award her the project, if not I'd move along.

    Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

    Except that they weren't happy with such a long delay, or else they wouldn't've asked for their money back.
    That's just an assumption and probably wrong.

    Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

    As a buyer, I make it clear that I expect regular communication. Over the years, I've found that too many sellers just wander away, and the relevancy here is that, by putting consequences in writing, up front, both parties understand the expectations in advance.
    I'd agree with that. That's why some people were saying it should be a lesson learned.
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  • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
    Banned
    Not the most positive discussion. Can we start being nice please. Lets curb the nastiness and help the OP. Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      Not the most positive discussion. Can we start being nice please. Lets curb the nastiness and help the OP. Thanks.
      The OP asked for opinions, received them, then complained about them. This is a historical cycle with the OP. You'll realize this yourself if you hang around long enough.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        help the OP
        No one is stopping you. Go for it.
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        • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          No one is stopping you. Go for it.
          I think you must have missed your mother's memo.

          If you've got nothing nice to say,

          well, you know the rest.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

            I think you must have missed your mother's memo.

            If you've got nothing nice to say,

            well, you know the rest.

            You mean, "If you have nothing nice to say, at least say something constructive"?

            Life isn't all roses and cocktail weenies. Sometimes it's a slap in the face and a kick in the pants.
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            • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              You mean, "If you have nothing nice to say, at least say something constructive"?
              I think you know exactly what I meant. If you can't help the op, don't add to his problem.

              Thank you.
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            • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              Life isn't all roses and cocktail weenies. Sometimes it's a slap in the face and a kick in the pants.
              The real Sebastian Bach would have realized that by this stage in life.
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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              You mean, "If you have nothing nice to say, at least say something constructive"?

              Life isn't all roses and cocktail weenies. Sometimes it's a slap in the face and a kick in the pants.
              It's a nice thought and all, but it came from a cartoon character rabbit in a Disney movie.

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              • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                It's a nice thought and all, but it came from a cartoon character rabbit in a Disney movie.

                Thumper - If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all - YouTube
                Wait. Thumper is actually telling us to say something, so if you can't say something nice, say something.
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                • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                  Wait. Thumper is actually telling us tot say something, so if you can't say something nice, say something.
                  I just find it funny that a lot of people, as "Sebastian" is doing, use that quote as if it is something that was written in stone.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                    Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                    I just find it funny that a lot of people, as "Sebastian" is doing, use that quote as if it is something that was written in stone.
                    That's because their grandmothers used to say that to them right before giving them a butterscotch. It's nothing more than a Pavlovian response.
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                    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                      That's because their grandmothers used to say that to them right before giving them a butterscotch. It's nothing more than a Pavlovian response.
                      My Grandma (Dad's side) would give us three Oreo cookies instead of just two like Mom. LOL

                      Thumper's adage has probably done about as much harm to the human condition as "Love means never having to say your sorry", from "Love Story".
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      Not the most positive discussion. Can we start being nice please. Lets curb the nastiness and help the OP. Thanks.
      He wanted to know how to delete a thread. He was told he can't, only a moderator can. That is correct, once someone has replied in a thread you've started, you can't delete it.

      So he was helped. Then the conversation went in other directions. That's the nature of a forum. Conversation. You don't get to choose how other people answer. If a person can't handle that, perhaps they shouldn't participate.
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      • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        If a person can't handle that, perhaps they shouldn't participate.
        mean spirited people are the cancer of most forums. if you don't cut it out, the forum dies.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

          mean spirited people are the cancer of most forums. if you don't cut it out, the forum dies.
          If you want to be dramatic, it could be said that people who try to control the behavior of others are a real-world cancer.

          There have been hundreds of threads that have been much "meaner" in tone than this one or the OP's other thread, and this forum has survived. As the saying goes, "you ain't seen nothin' yet."

          Having said that, I'm in favor of being nice and being helpful, and I think those here who know me would tell you I am, however, I'm not the morality police here and, Mr. New Member, neither are you. It takes an impressive amount of arrogance to think you can join a forum and immediately start telling long-time members how they should participate.
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          • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            There have been hundreds of threads that have been much "meaner" in tone than this one
            That's nothing to be proud of.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

              That's nothing to be proud of.
              Apples and oranges. No one claimed it was. Focus.
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          • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            It takes an impressive amount of arrogance to think you can join a forum and immediately start telling long-time members how they should participate.
            or it takes a certain amount of courage to lead those on the wrong path to change direction.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

              or it takes a certain amount of courage to lead those on the wrong path to change direction.
              Courage? You're hiding behind a fake name in a digital world. Tell us again how "brave" you are.

              And while you're at it, tell us who asked you to be the leader here. Leadership is earned, not self-appointed.
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              • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                Courage? You're hiding behind a fake name in a digital world. Tell us again how "brave" you are.

                And while you're at it, tell us who asked you to be the leader here. Leadership is earned, not self-appointed.
                Hiding? as you will notice, most people don't use their real names on this forum, and most other forums for that matter. Are you new to the internet? Probably less than 20% use their real names. Is everyone hiding Dennis? I don't think so.

                Oh you need leading alright, from the darkness toward the light. such mean spirited people here.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                  Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                  Hiding? as you will notice, most people don't use their real names on this forum, and most other forums for that matter. Are you new to the internet? Probably less than 20% use their real names. Is everyone hiding Dennis? I don't think so.

                  Oh you need leading alright, from the darkness toward the light. such mean spirited people here.
                  If you're not using your real name, you're hiding behind a fake name. It doesn't matter how many others do it. The consequences of your behavior don't come back to YOU, they come back to your fake name.

                  Again, I encourage you to focus. You inferred that you were being courageous. It takes no courage to hide behind a fake name in a digital world. If that's what you call courage, you have lived a very sheltered life.

                  How old are you, 15?

                  Edited to add: If everyone had to use their REAL name online, there would be a lot less "mean-ness" directed at others because the consequences of everyone's behavior would come back to them personally, not to a fake identity. People do and say things online under fake names that they'd never have the courage to do or say in real life. You want to be a leader here, start posting with your real name. Show your courage.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                    If you're not using your real name, you're hiding behind a fake name.
                    You might want to have a think about that. it's a pretty dumb statement.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                      You might want to have a think about that. it's a pretty dumb statement.
                      You might want to think about it, it's a pretty simply concept you're not comprehending.

                      You also might have missed this:
                      If everyone had to use their REAL name online, there would be a lot less "mean-ness" directed at others because the consequences of everyone's behavior would come back to them personally, not to a fake identity. People do and say things online under fake names that they'd never have the courage to do or say in real life. You want to be a leader here, start posting with your real name. Show your courage.
                      And by the way, because you probably haven't figured this out yet either, I'm not defending people who are "being mean" - I don't care for "mean" either. I'm defending their right to participate as they choose, as long as it's within the rules. I don't make the rules, and neither do you. If you think someone has broken the rules, report the post and let the moderators deal with it. That's their job, and the extent of your ability to dictate how people behave here. That will go a lot farther toward keeping the forum user-friendly than what you're doing.


                      Edited to add: Look, you're probably a pretty good kid. That would be my guess. But you're going about things all wrong here. Try getting to know people before you try telling them what to do. You might find some of the people you thought were being mean, were just being honest. Sometimes honesty can sting a little, but it can also open a person's eyes and mind and make them a smarter and/or better person in the long run. I'd also guess some of what you interpret as mean is really just the person's style of communicating. That's something long-time members will see and recognize, and new members will misinterpret.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                        Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                        mean spirited people are the cancer of most forums. if you don't cut it out, the forum dies.
                        I see the majority of people here not as mean spirited at all, just very confident in their thoughts on things.


                        Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                        or it takes a certain amount of courage to lead those on the wrong path to change direction.
                        Wrong path? I see different paths, but not really a lot of wrong paths.

                        Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                        You might want to have a think about that. it's a pretty dumb statement.
                        Wish I had my time machine now and could see if there would be any difference to your reactions in this thread in 5 years from now.

                        BTW, Dennis would probably get my vote for the nicest person in here as far as how he is always very composed in his replies.

                        I personally don't try to offend others - it just comes out naturally these days. lol
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      What are you - 12? I'm chuckling at your comments. If you want to be "helpful" - then do it. You don't seem to have much to offer except naive advice and snarky comments.

                      Offer some wisdom of your own. No one is stopping you.

                      Yes, we're playing with you a bit....it's so tempting
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                  • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                    Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                    How old are you, 15?
                    18 and life to go.
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  • This is just the most bizarre thing.

    Way I see it, lotta constructive help arrived over in the original post, an' I get that it is only hooman sometimes to sit uneasily with this kinda thing, cos we all kinda wanna be right.

    What I do not get is the OP's insistence on erasin' his own contributions to the original thread.

    That is onea the things I figure has got people riled.

    Why ask for help only to erase your own dissin' of it?

    No we got some frickin' stoopid decomposer tryin' to rot an already whiffo corpse by stealth.

    Simplest way to slay both threads is to check with the Mods — or behave in a resurrectional manner by reclaimin' your own words.

    I had a coupla threads a while back bummed out on typos made me look like I couldn't spell propper, an' when I saw I couldn't delete 'em, I mutated 'em into less leguminous homunculi.

    However, I figure the diminished, misshapen vegetable deal ain't for everyone.

    Gotta say also that it is in the nature of forums to offer open, public spaces for debate, jus' like the Romans did when they weren't brutally slayin' people with whom they disagreed.
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  • "If you are gonna say sumthin' constructive, make sure you drop it in Comment #51."
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  • Ach.

    Too late.

    Gonna go shave my legs with the sharpened scapula of some murdered prehistoric tiger...
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  • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
    Banned
    It is clear for all to see who are the kind, helpful and decent folk of this forum, just as it is clear who are the mean spirited know it alls who actually know very little apart from attacking others.

    When you let the animals run wild in the zoo, visitors stop coming and the zoo closes.

    Wise words to ponder.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      It is clear for all to see who are the kind, helpful and decent folk of this forum, just as it is clear who are the mean spirited know it alls who actually know very little apart from attacking others.

      When you let the animals run wild in the zoo, visitors stop coming and the zoo closes.
      You come here and start judging, condescending, preaching, and bossing people around, and accusing many of being mean spirited instead of "kind, decent, and helpful".....

      You haven't taken your own advice about "if you have nothing nice to say..."

      Rather hypocritical, don't you think?

      You can ponder that for a bit.


      Now, here's the deal. This OP, as Dan pointed out, has a long history of the type of petty, childish behavior he's shown in this and the thread he wants to delete.

      He asked for advice in the first thread. He got a LOT of excellent advice. He didn't like it because it wasn't what he wanted to hear. He thanked only the posts of those who told him he should keep the woman's money, which is clearly all he wanted to hear.

      Those who gave him what most would consider intelligent business advice, like make your terms very clear in the future, etc., he argued with or ignored.

      Then he starts this thread, which didn't accomplish what he'd hoped and so he starts arguing and acting childish. Again. (Some people never learn...)

      He's not a "victim" of "mean-spirited" individuals. He brought this on himself. When you act petty and childish, it's not going to get you what you want in life.

      Acting self-righteous and condescending - especially the very first day you join a forum - isn't going to elicit "kind" responses either.

      Welcome to the WF.
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      • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

        Welcome to the WF.
        Fixed that for you.

        That's much better. Thanks for the welcome. Hello to you too.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      It is clear for all to see who are the kind, helpful and decent folk of this forum, just as it is clear who are the mean spirited know it alls who actually know very little apart from attacking others.

      When you let the animals run wild in the zoo, visitors stop coming and the zoo closes.

      Wise words to ponder.
      Yes -- anyone with their head screwed on straight can see quite clearly what is happening here (and there).
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

        Yes -- anyone with their head screwed on straight can see quite clearly what is happening here (and there).
        You got that right.
        Signature

        "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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      • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

        Yes -- anyone with their head screwed on straight can see quite clearly what is happening here.
        Indeed they can.

        This happens all the time in the work place too. Do you know what successful entrepreneurs do when they have cancer eroding their businesses from within? They cut it out. When cancer is left to thrive, it kills. This is happening here.

        You'd think the powers that be wouldn't allow a few toxic negative individuals to destroy their business. Make no mistake, with every negative attack, less people want to post, fewer members join, new visitors lurk, never join or post, no growth, just decline.

        In the end they are the only ones left and their nature is hatred so they turn on themselves. It is a guaranteed certainty this will happen here unless a change is made.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

          Indeed they can.

          This happens all the time in the work place too. Do you know what successful entrepreneurs do when they have cancer eroding their businesses from within? They cut it out. When cancer is left to thrive, it kills. This is happening here.

          You'd think the powers that be wouldn't allow a few toxic negative individuals to destroy their business. Make no mistake, with every negative attack, less people want to post, fewer members join, new visitors lurk, never join or post, no growth, just decline.

          In the end they are the only ones left and their nature is hatred so they turn on themselves. It is a guaranteed certainty this will happen here unless a change is made.
          How nice of you to compare people who do not agree with you to "cancer" and "wild animals".
          It's very refreshing to have someone taking such a high road in every post.
          Signature

          "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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          • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
            Banned
            Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

            How nice of you to compare people who do not agree with you to "cancer" and "wild animals".
            It's very refreshing to have someone taking such a high road in every post.
            Your belief I'm taking the high road speaks volumes. It's not the high road Sir, it's standard common decency. Maybe this is where you've been going wrong, that goes for the rest of you. I accept the truth may hurt, but it's not too late to make a change. Do you want to be part of the reason this great place dies? it's going to happen, it's a guaranteed certainty, with every action there is a reaction, you are bringing this on yourselves. Have the brains to see it. It's quite obvious.

            The world can be such a toxic place, lets work together to make it a better place, for you and for me.

            There's A Place In Your Heart
            And I Know That It Is Love
            And This Place Could Be Much Brighter Than Tomorrow
            And If You Really Try
            You'll Find There's No Need To Cry
            In This Place You'll Feel
            There's No Hurt Or Sorrow

            There Are Ways To Get There
            If You Care Enough For The Living
            Make A Little Space
            Make A Better Place...

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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

              Your belief I'm taking the high road speaks volumes. It's not the high road Sir, it's standard common decency. Maybe this is where you've been going wrong, that goes for the rest of you. I accept the truth may hurt, but it's not too late to make a change. Do you want to be part of the reason this great place dies? it's going to happen, it's a guaranteed certainty, with every action there is a reaction, you are bringing this on yourselves. Have the brains to see it. It's quite obvious.
              Very sad you did not get the sarcasm. I do not think you take the high road at all.
              I think you are very contradictory. Calling for the high road and peace and then being
              insulting, condescending and disrespectful. You are being far from an example of what
              you preach. Far from being a leader. And, yes, you could use better examples than
              Michael Jackson. I hope this makes things very clear for you.
              Signature

              "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

            I wanted to fall this way Dennis, but now I'm beginning to see a bunch of other one liner posts and wondering if this person is of any relation to cartmanbrah.

            I think I'm seeing something very new. How some possibly well intention people can actually be simple forum trolls with or without realizing it.
            Post #68 is all it took.

            Anxious to see what April fools is going to bring, or even Halloween this year!
            Signature

            "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

              Post #68 is all it took.

              Anxious to see what April fools is going to bring, or even Halloween this year!
              It's a party all year long with him. I might even miss him if he went away for good. lol.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                EDIT: I see you thanked the troll also. You do know that he is cartmanbrah, cartmanbrahs, keyboardwordrria, lloydchristmas, winnertakesitall, theequalizer PeNnYwIsEr, LaNCeARmsROnG all banned within the last several weeks and now sebastianbach. He takes on a new persona every time one is banned. He was "The Coon" the Savior of the Warrior Forum little over a week ago. lol.

                I don't recognize any of those names. I've probably posted more in the last 2-3 days than I did in all of November and December combined. I just finished building a local charity site and I'm goofing off for a few days before diving into my next project, which is a big one.

                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                You are on the way to true enlightenment. The next steps in your journey is realizing others are given to that proclivity more than others and it affects what you consider abrasive. After all does anyone think their passionate defenders are abrasive? Nope. its entirely subjective.
                I like to think we're all on the way to enlightenment. Some of us just take a more circuitous route than others.
                Signature

                Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                  I don't recognize any of those names. I've probably posted more in the last 2-3 days than I did in all of November and December combined. I just finished building a local charity site and I'm goofing off for a few days before diving into my next project, which is a big one.
                  cartmanbrah was the first and it was a pretty hilarious character in a really demeaning way. He was not the God of love and peace in that character. At all.

                  Good luck with the next project.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    cartmanbrah was the first and it was a pretty hilarious character in a really demeaning way. He was not the God of love and peace in that character. At all.

                    Good luck with the next project.
                    So you admit that sebastianbach, the god of love and peace is NOTHING like this other person. Could it be that they are two completely different people? This is what I'm talking about, you're incapable of even basic logic. Let me tell you directly, if this carries on I will be reporting you, but not to the forum, to my lawyer for libel! Be careful or my lawyer will put you on the news! Do you think I've never put people on the news before?

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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                      So you admit that sebastianbach, the god of love and peace is NOTHING like this other person. Could it be that they are two completely different people? This is what I'm talking about, you're incapable of even basic logic. Let me tell you directly, if this carries on I will be reporting you, but not to the forum, to my lawyer for libel! Be careful or my lawyer will put you on the news! Do you think I've never put people on the news before?
                      lol. Go ahead. Sue me. Put me on the news. It's pretty slow around here on the farm.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                      So you admit that sebastianbach, the god of love and peace is NOTHING like this other person.
                      Oh no, there are definitely things that gave you up.

                      And I could detail them, but I want to see you really work for it when you have to come on with another identity.
                      Signature

                      "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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                    • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                      So you admit that sebastianbach, the god of love and peace is NOTHING like this other person. Could it be that they are two completely different people? This is what I'm talking about, you're incapable of even basic logic. Let me tell you directly, if this carries on I will be reporting you, but not to the forum, to my lawyer for libel! Be careful or my lawyer will put you on the news! Do you think I've never put people on the news before?
                      ROFL

                      I've been away on a sabbatical - a month this time. I kinda forgot the reasons I keep having these holidays, but then reading what people like you keep posting brings it all back to me. There was a time back in the good old days when trolls were given marching orders waaaay before a thread reached this crazy level of posts.

                      But hey dude, don't sweat the small stuff. You just won the competition anyway . . . .

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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                        ROFL

                        I've been away on a sabbatical - a month this time.
                        Welcome back. Good to see you.
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                        • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          Welcome back. Good to see you.
                          Thanks Suzanne. Good to see you in fine fettle on this thread. You've got to tread carefully though as calling out a liar who posts crap that is a total contradiction to their sig link, or a waste of space member who posts nothing but an endless stream of infantile questions for months on end, will both get you a holiday for "breaking the rules". At least you knew where you stood with Paul and the old mods.
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                          • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                            Here's a snap from my latest holiday . . .


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                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                              Again, IMO I think a pretty good reason exists on why the posts don't count down here, and if the posts don't count, then neither should the thanks.
                              I agree with the idea of not counting thanks down here. Btw, the reason posts don't count in the off topic is because I mentioned, in a thread Allen started years ago, how it was being abused down here in the off topic forum. People were intentionally building up thousands of posts in a matter of weeks so they would look like experienced marketers. The next day the posts stopped counting.
                              Signature
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                              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                I agree with the idea of not counting thanks down here. Btw, the reason posts don't count in the off topic is because I mentioned, in a thread Allen started years ago, how it was being abused down here in the off topic forum. People were intentionally building up thousands of posts in a matter of weeks so they would look like experienced marketers. The next day the posts stopped counting.

                                Well young man, I think it is high time we go ahead and do it and do away with the Thanks down here( as it applies to total count).

                                But I also agree we should be able to give each other high fives and thanks down here much like the Post count. I don't think I could stand myself not being able to give Mike and Claude a big slap on the shoulder for a job well done every now and then lol

                                But like you ,Dennis, and Don said it just won't go towards the Total Thank count.


                                It seems like if we do this it will make everyone happy..i.e the ones who think it gives an inflated and unfair vote of confidence to a few undeserving Marketers thus potentially misleading newbs and also it will appease the ones who enjoy each other down here and love to say Thanks for whatever reason whether it be for social recognition or just for a smart informative Off Topic discussion.


                                Everybody in favor say "aye" ( EDITED)
                                Signature

                                Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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                                • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post


                                  Everybody in favor say "I"

                                  'A'

                                  (Sorry, I have a touch of dysleserxia)



                                  Old McDonald had a farm, o, i, e, a, u
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                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                  Everybody in favor say "aye" ( EDITED)

                                  Oppose. And for the record, it's not a democracy here. Freelancer calls the shots.
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                      • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                        ROFL

                        I've been away on a sabbatical - a month this time. I kinda forgot the reasons I keep having these holidays, but then reading what people like you keep posting brings it all back to me. There was a time back in the good old days when trolls were given marching orders waaaay before a thread reached this crazy level of posts.

                        But hey dude, don't sweat the small stuff. You just won the competition anyway . . . .

                        I've tried to be nice, I've tried to be kind but the only thing you people understand is hate and force. So I will tell you this Sir,

                        I will put you on the news too. There is no limit to the amount of people I will put on the news! Did you not watch that video, people are getting put on the news! You will be held accountable!
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                    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                      So you admit that sebastianbach, the god of love and peace is NOTHING like this other person. Could it be that they are two completely different people? This is what I'm talking about, you're incapable of even basic logic. Let me tell you directly, if this carries on I will be reporting you, but not to the forum, to my lawyer for libel! Be careful or my lawyer will put you on the news! Do you think I've never put people on the news before?
                      Dude, and yes, I called you dude. While I agree with some of what you have said here, I think you are basically wearing out your welcome even from those that have semi-welcomed you.

                      I would not dare give you forum advice...but if it were me, I would chill just a bit and go with the flow, or let it drop. Please believe me on this, I am one that enjoys a little unchill against the flow activity.

                      Now if you are an impostor that has been banned several times then you need to be banned again and banned pronto. I have not payed any attention to that line of banter...but I must say your latest post has perked my attention...yup, I am really, really bored today.

                      Cheers
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                        I would not dare give you forum advice...but if it were me I would chill just a bit and go with the flow or let it drop. Please believe me on this, I am one that enjoys a little unchill against the flow activity.

                        Now if you are an impostor that has been banned several times then you need to be banned again and banned pronto. I have not payed any attention to that line of banter...but I must say your latest post has perked my attention...yup, I am really, really bored today.

                        Cheers
                        Lol ... Don, he can't. It's too bad you missed the others, especially cartmanbrah. He is in character ALL the time. Just a different character each time he comes back and he always comes back. Sometimes within minutes.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          Lol ... Don, he can't. It's too bad you missed the others, especially cartmanbrah. He is in character ALL the time. Just a different character each time he comes back and he always comes back. Sometimes within minutes.
                          It shouldn't be allowed that a new member can be accused and branded as something he is not. So to prove I am my own man, I will leave this thread now, I've said what I wanted to say and feel the point was well made by myself and others. Having also been accused of adding nothing I will now be posting a new thread to help fellow entrepreneurs in the main forum, where no doubt I will be thoroughly welcomed. I hope you are able to amend the errors of your ways. Peace and love to all.
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                          • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                            Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

                            I will now be posting a new thread to help fellow entrepreneurs in the main forum, where no doubt I will be thoroughly welcomed.
                            That's a mighty lot of faith there. Considered being a preacher?
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                        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          Lol ... Don, he can't. It's too bad you missed the others, especially cartmanbrah. He is in character ALL the time. Just a different character each time he comes back and he always comes back. Sometimes within minutes.
                          LoL...that's funny stuff. I can remember a few who did this back in the day at the largest photography forum on the net. It was fairly comical stuff...I mean, it would have sucked if peeps were doing it in my forums!

                          One of my favorites was when a valuable and very active member of the community was going along great until he posted a negative review and samples from a new release. Brand fanboys eventually harassed him hard enough that I guess he decided to take them on full-time so to speak. Of course that turned rather ugly very quickly and the dude was banned. Shortly thereafter a movie character member name arrived on the forum knowing a lot and giving a few tells...a few wise friendly ol' members spotted him...but so did the fanboys and he was quicky banned.

                          What happened next was great...when banned, the guy instantly would be back as another character in the same movie until he ran out of characters. It drove the idiot masses mad!

                          LMFAO...it was great because the movie guy was the one posting the honest review and samples.

                          Cheers

                          -don
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                            One of my favorites was when a valuable and very active member of the community was going along great until he posted a negative review and samples from a new release. Brand fanboys eventually harassed him hard enough that I guess he decided to take them on full-time so to speak. Of course that turned rather ugly very quickly and the dude was banned. Shortly thereafter a movie character member name arrived on the forum knowing a lot and giving a few tells...a few wise friendly ol' members spotted him...but so did the fanboys and he was quicky banned.

                            Cheers

                            -don
                            Check him out here where he's giving up the peace and love stuff and giving advice to members on Valentine's Day. A bit closer to the Cartmanbrah character that he started with.

                            http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...l#post10536420
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

          Make no mistake, with every negative attack, less people want to post, fewer members join, new visitors lurk, never join or post, no growth, just decline.
          Do you have any idea how silly that sounds? The forum as been around close to 20 years and has over a million members. Your personal feelings and opinions are not indicative of any more than your personal feelings and opinions. Because you think it, don't make it so.
          Signature

          Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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          • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            Do you have any idea how silly that sounds? The forum as been around close to 20 years and has over a million members. Your personal feelings and opinions are not indicative of any more than that.
            You should probably listen to this one as well Dennis.

            I'm gonna make a change
            For once in my life
            It's gonna feel real good
            Gonna make a difference
            Gonna make it right

            I'm starting with the man in the mirror
            I'm asking him to change his ways
            And no message could have been any clearer
            If you want to make the world a better place
            Take a look at yourself, and then make a change

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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

          You'd think the powers that be wouldn't allow a few toxic negative individuals to destroy their business. Make no mistake, with every negative attack, less people want to post, fewer members join, new visitors lurk, never join or post, no growth, just decline.
          Here's one for ya.

          If you aren't part of the solution, you are the problem.

          So perhaps you might consider going up into the main forum and giving some helpful advice instead of here in the OT where "anything goes."

          I highly doubt any small group of us have the power to destroy this forum/business.

          I actually think the mods do a great job editing for the most part. They've even done it here already.

          If you don't like something posted, do what the rest of us do and report a thread/post.

          Stepping down here and calling some a "cancer" just because you don't agree with what they are saying or how they say it isn't really doing you any favors.

          Again, I'm not seeing personal attacks going on here. Just a difference of opinions and how things should be handled.

          If you want to be judge and jury as to what is right or wrong, then go start your own forum.

          I follow the rules here. I don't complain if my posts get nixed. Heck, I'm not even selling anything in my sig at the moment and have not for some time.

          You seem to give people a lot more credit than I see if you think a handful of people are going to take down this giant forum.

          And if you are thinking that is the intention of the posters you are finding offensive, I have to tell you it is far from the truth IMO.
          Signature

          "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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          • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

            Stepping down here and calling some a "cancer"
            Because they need to realize what they're doing. We can beat cancer, but we must fight it. You understand?

            You seem to give people a lot more credit than I see if you think a handful of people are going to take down this giant forum.
            Thomas Andrews: From this moment, no matter what we do, Titanic will founder.
            Ismay: But this ship can't sink!
            Thomas Andrews: She's made of iron, sir! I assure you, she can... and she will. It is a mathematical certainty.
            Smith: How much time?
            Thomas Andrews: An hour... two at most.
            Smith: And how many aboard, Mr. Murdoch?
            1st Officer William Murdoch: 2,200 souls on board, sir.
            Smith: I believe you may get your headlines, Mr. Ismay

            And if you are thinking that is the intention of the posters you are finding offensive, I have to tell you it is far from the truth IMO.
            Then it is said that they know not what they do, so now they have been informed, lets see what they do with this new-found knowledge.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
          Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

          Indeed they can.

          This happens all the time in the work place too. Do you know what successful entrepreneurs do when they have cancer eroding their businesses from within? They cut it out. When cancer is left to thrive, it kills. This is happening here.

          You'd think the powers that be wouldn't allow a few toxic negative individuals to destroy their business. Make no mistake, with every negative attack, less people want to post, fewer members join, new visitors lurk, never join or post, no growth, just decline.

          In the end they are the only ones left and their nature is hatred so they turn on themselves. It is a guaranteed certainty this will happen here unless a change is made.
          This is clearly the truth. And... It's no mystery who's who -- it's the same predictable, usual suspects. It's their hobby (apparently), so one keeps seeing their drive-by style posts. Self-appointed bullies.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Claude, your case is easy. Give your imaginary client an imaginary refund and you will have an imaginary friend for life. Imaginary friends are more important than imaginary clients because you don't have to come up with imaginary products and service to give them...I imagine.
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Claude, your case is easy. Give your imaginary client an imaginary refund and you will have an imaginary friend for life. Imaginary friends are more important than imaginary clients because you don't have to come up with imaginary products and service to give them...I imagine.
      I think you're just imagining things.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Edited to add: Look, you're probably a pretty good kid. That would be my guess. But you're going about things all wrong here.
        I wanted to fall this way Dennis, but now I'm beginning to see a bunch of other one liner posts and wondering if this person is of any relation to cartmanbrah.

        I think I'm seeing something very new. How some possibly well intention people can actually be simple forum trolls with or without realizing it.
        Signature

        "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Absolutely brilliant advice. It's even more amazing, considering that it's coming from a woman.
          LOL, looks like someone slipped some raisins in your Wheaties this morning.
          Signature

          "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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        • Profile picture of the author irawr
          Banned
          Derailed thread is off topic in off topic.

          +1 Vote for thread of the year.
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        • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

          How some possibly well intention people can actually be simple forum trolls with or without realizing it.
          Really? You deduce that my calling for people not to be mean spirited and to stop attacking others as trolling? You can't help yourself can you. So again, if you've got nothing nice to say.
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          • Profile picture of the author irawr
            Banned
            Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

            Really? You deduce that my calling for people not to be mean spirited and to stop attacking others as trolling? You can't help yourself can you. So again, if you've got nothing nice to say.
            Sorry, but that's not how the world works.

            I'm not defending anybody here. I'm just saying it.

            Edit: The sooner you learn the concept that "You don't have to do anything" the better.

            You're expecting something of them and they don't owe you anything.
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  • Profile picture of the author alistair
    Am I the only person in the world that hates the word client? I don't know why but I've always felt like it's some made up poncey term that only wankers use. A bit like my brother in law who used to say he was a chemical engineer when all he did was spray woodworm treatment. I know it's not really, but I really do hate the word.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by alistair View Post

      Am I the only person in the world that hates the word client? I don't know why but I've always felt like it's some made up poncey term that only wankers use. A bit like my brother in law who used to say he was a chemical engineer when all he did was spray woodworm treatment. I know it's not really, but I really do hate the word.
      Love or hate the word is irrelevant. They are clients if they're paying you to do something for them.

      cli·ent
      ˈklīənt/
      noun
      noun: client; plural noun: clients
      1.
      a person or organization using the services of a lawyer or other professional person or company.
      "insurance tailor-made to a client's specific requirements"
      synonyms:customer, buyer, purchaser, shopper, consumer, user; More
      client

      play

      noun cli·ent ˈklī-ənt
      Definition of client



      1. : a person who uses the professional advice or services of another

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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Mean spirited + off topic + not reality-based is what it is, and the "seniority" of the person doing it has nothing to do with it. Flitting from thread to thread, arrogantly pooping upon people -- apparently as one's hobby -- should somehow be eliminated. But that's ok, if it doesn't get eliminated, I can just make it my policy to just-plain ignore the posts of the usual-suspects, Jeff Ross wanna-be's. That's the best path. I have the power to pay no attention to these silly bullies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

      Mean spirited + off topic + not reality-based is what it is, and the "seniority" of the person doing it has nothing to do with it. Flitting from thread to thread, arrogantly pooping upon people -- apparently as one's hobby -- should somehow be eliminated. But that's ok, if it doesn't get eliminated, I can just make it my policy to just-plain ignore the posts of the usual-suspects, Jeff Ross wanna-be's. That's the best path. I have the power to pay no attention to these silly bullies.
      Actually, the best path is to change the title of this post to, "Please Delete This Thread". Then report the thread to the Mods. That would solve the problem quickly.

      I've done it a few time, and the thread is gone very quickly.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

      Mean spirited + off topic + not reality-based is what it is, and the "seniority" of the person doing it has nothing to do with it. Flitting from thread to thread, arrogantly pooping upon people -- apparently as one's hobby -- should somehow be eliminated. But that's ok, if it doesn't get eliminated, I can just make it my policy to just-plain ignore the posts of the usual-suspects, Jeff Ross wanna-be's. That's the best path. I have the power to pay no attention to these silly bullies.
      Obviously, the truth hurts, as you continually delete your own posts and want to delete the threads with opinions you don't like. Go ahead and ignore, but I'm sure there are prospective clients that will put you on ignore as well, after these threads.
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  • Profile picture of the author alistair
    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

    Love or hate the word is irrelevant. They are clients if they're paying you to do something for them.
    I know what the word means, just saying I've never liked it. Just a quirk of mine I suppose.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by alistair View Post

      I know what the word means, just saying I've never liked it. Just a quirk of mine I suppose.
      I'm not sure why, but I also never liked the word Client. To me, they are customers. I get the differences, and the reasons that people say "Client". But to me, if they are giving me money, they are customers.

      Maybe because Customer is less personal. Not sure.

      To me, that's the relationship. To me, it's all transactional. The word Client shows a more personal caring service.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I'm not sure why, but I also never liked the word Client. To me, they are customers. I get the differences, and the reasons that people say "Client". But to me, if they are giving me money, they are customers.

        Maybe because Customer is less personal. Not sure.

        To me, that's the relationship. To me, it's all transactional. The word Client shows a more personal caring service.
        When someone clicks on a link and buys what I have in my signature, they are a customer. They bought a product and that's that. When people bought my graphic design services, they were clients. It's a lot more personal.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          When someone clicks on a link and buys what I have in my signature, they are a customer. They bought a product and that's that. When people bought my graphic design services, they were clients. It's a lot more personal.
          I get that completely. And that's the usage I'm used to.

          I say Client. I call them Clients. But I just mean Customer. It's one reason I don't go after high end continuity consulting clients. I don't want the relationship, and perceived friendship.....because it isn't something I will really deliver.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I get that completely. And that's the usage I'm used to.

            I say Client. I call them Clients. But I just mean Customer. It's one reason I don't go after high end continuity consulting clients. I don't want the relationship, and perceived friendship.....because it isn't something I will really deliver.
            That's me too. In semi-retirement, I don't want to "work for" clients. I don't want long term relationships and long term projects. I did that for years and it was a good living while doing it, but often exhausting. I'd rather put together a product and sell it passively and let the customer do what they will or won't do with it now.
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            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              That's me too. In semi-retirement, I don't want to "work for" clients. I don't want long term relationships and long term projects. I did that for years and it was a good living while doing it, but often exhausting. I'd rather put together a product and sell it passively and let the customer do what they will or won't do with it now.
              I have to learn how to do that. There is nothing passive about anything I do, ever.
              Man, that really needs to change. Especially now that I'm a single father.
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  • This is the stoopidest thread evah.

    "The zit that keeps on poppin'."
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    If there are/were attacks (name calling, threats, blatant lies, etc.) the established procedure is to report the offense to the mods via the little red triangle.

    Differences in opinion are normal parts of any discussion. Some thought you should return the money and some thought you should keep it. A normal person who is really looking for answers or opinions about a situation prepares themself for ALL opinions and then makes their own decision.

    Many times people share more than just their opinions - they share why they have that opinion. Red is the best color and here are 7 reasons why. Sometimes the reasons why slip into preaching or teaching and while that is normal, it's not always wanted.

    What isn't normal is to want to delete a thread where the great majority of posts are on topic and not attacking anyone. Even less normal is deleting all our own posts in said thread just to make some kind of point. The one looking bad is normally the one that is trying to delete things instead of the "attackers".

    I try to stick to the established procedures for handling problem users, try to be grateful to all that try to help even when I don't agree with their opinion, and try to give more than I take. This has worked fairly well for me here and elsewhere. Maybe you can give another way of forum interaction a shot.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
    Banned
    I'm singing it right now in my house, I feel so happy, sing with me guys you'll feel so much better and want to spread love.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      I'm singing it right now in my house, I feel so happy, sing with me guys you'll feel so much better and want to spread love.
      Like the way this guy did?
      Michael Jackson 'spent $35 million to silence at least two dozen boys he abused' | Daily Mail Online
      Michael Jackson paid £23MILLION buying silence of at least TWO DOZEN young boys he abused over 15 years
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        LOL, I still do really love MJ's songs.

        But yes, there were some problems there in his personal life.
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        "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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        • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

          LOL, I still do really love MJ's songs.

          But yes, there were some problems there in his personal life.
          Do you see what you do Jill, you can't help but be toxic. You need to make a change. I hope you will consider this. Try love, not hate.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

            Do you see what you do Jill, you can't help but be toxic. You need to make a change. I hope you will consider this. Try love, not hate.
            Tell em Sebastian....Be a lover not a fighter.

            Mind you I am not all for all the sugary stuff but you sure are being bullied for it and if Your name began with T and ended with an a you'd be getting the thanks (provided you were giving the same message to the right people) - so you are just being bullied for not being in a certain crowd. Keep your chin up.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              but you sure are being bullied for it
              Being bullied? Is this not a discussion forum? LOL, I'll go one further - is this not the OFF TOPIC in a discussion forum?

              bul·ly1
              ˈbo͝olē/
              verb
              gerund or present participle: bullying

              use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.
              "a local man was bullied into helping them"
              synonyms: persecute, oppress, tyrannize, browbeat, harass, torment, intimidate, strong-arm, dominate; More
              informalpush around, bullyrag
              "the others bully him"
              coerce, pressure, pressurize, press, push;
              force, compel;
              badger, goad, prod, browbeat, intimidate, dragoon, strong-arm;
              informalbulldoze, railroad, lean on
              "she was bullied into helping"

              Origin
              mid 16th century: probably from Middle Dutch boele 'lover.' The original usage was as a term of endearment applied to either sex; later becoming a familiar form of address to a male friend. The current sense dates from the late 17th century.
              Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything here.

              Suggestions, yes. Bullying is a pretty harsh assessment.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

          I'm singing it right now in my house, I feel so happy, sing with me guys you'll feel so much better and want to spread love.
          Yes, running off now to shave my head, put on a Toga, and will follow up by banging my head against that brick wall until the blood starts spewing out of my ears.
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      • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
        Banned
        Again, try not to spread hate. You're all so quick to hate, to spread negativity. What you give out to the world you get back.

        That sort of money was peanuts to MJ, he just figured he'd help those families, give them something so everyone could get on with their lives and move on. Everyone just wanted to take from him. He was probably very sad when those who he'd showed great kindness tried to attack him so awfully. Greed is a sad part of human nature.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
          [DELETED]
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          • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
            Banned
            [DELETED]
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Listen, I know I have always been rooting for the underdog my whole Life.

              And yes there are plenty of bullies parading around here at WF.

              That being said a few of you guys are being a little thinned skin here.

              And putting up silly musical videos to drive home a point...well it really weakens your Point, To be honest.

              Timothy, I feel you Brother.
              I can't stand 'piling' on other individuals and making them feel lowly and dejected.

              Hate it with a Passion because I know how it feels to be the recepient.

              But to be honest, this is a Forum. And when you Post something like this you are going to have people answer directly what you are asking and some will also add their personality to it and express things in that manner

              it's just the nature of a Public Forum. If you put your 'foot' out there , there will be no question that some may disagree with you and do it with some flair

              You have been here long enough to understand that and should be prepared for that

              Iam not really sure that you can say it is the same useless Members doing their Drive By Sh!tting on you.

              I think that is a bit unfair with this characterization.

              I know a few that this could be applied here at WF but everyone so far on this Thread I would not say this is accurate at all !

              Anyway, fwiw in a few days you will forget about this and most everyone will forget about it and move forward.

              It will be a distant memory so don't sweat it and just let it just go

              EDIT : Okay I checked out the Thread in question. Timothy, I truly think that there wasn't much going on to get so heated up over. Just some people offering some opinions on what should be done. And some personal flair which as I said earlier you should be used to by now .But some very helpful advice, imho ! The "not applicable part" ? Man, you need to go back and take that out. That is just NOT good for business. At all !! I have to concur with some of the others it was somewhat petty
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              • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                Listen, I know I have always been rooting for the underdog my whole Life.

                And yes there are plenty of bullies parading around here at WF.

                That being said a few of you guys are being a little thinned skin here.

                And putting up silly musical videos to drive home a point...well it really weakens your Point, To be honest.

                Timothy, I feel you Brother.
                I can't stand 'piling' on other individuals and making them feel lowly and dejected.

                Hate it with a Passion because I know how it feels to be the recepient.

                But to be honest, this is a Forum. And when you Post something like this you are going to have people answer directly what you are asking and some will also add their personality to it and express things in that manner

                it's just the nature of a Public Forum. If you put your 'foot' out there , there will be no question that some may disagree with you and do it with some flair

                You have been here long enough to understand that and should be prepared for that

                Iam not really sure that you can say it is the same useless Members doing their Drive By Sh!tting on you.

                I think that is a bit unfair with this characterization.

                I know a few that this could be applied here at WF but everyone so far on this Thread I would not say this is accurate at all !

                Anyway, fwiw in a few days you will forget about this and most everyone will forget about it and move forward.

                It will be a distant memory so don't sweat it and just let it just go

                EDIT : Okay I checked out the Thread in question. Timothy, I truly think that there wasn't much going on to get so heated up over. Just some people offering some opinions on what should be done. And some personal flair which as I said earlier you should be used to by now .But some very helpful advice, imho ! The "not applicable part" ? Man, you need to go back and take that out. That is just NOT good for business. At all !! I have to concur with some of the others it was somewhat petty
                I have no problem with personalities. I think personalities are great. The weirder, the better. There's a big difference between helpful, caring, thoughtful advice/criticism, and thoughtLESS, drive-by style bullying. There was at least one post (as I recall, more) that definitely fell under that category. THAT'S what I didn't "sign up for." Like I said, if I wanted to be the subject of a roast, I would've called the Friar's Club.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

                  THAT'S what I didn't "sign up for." Like I said, if I wanted to be the subject of a roast, I would've called the Friar's Club.
                  Instead you solicited opinions from the Warrior Forum, but only those opinions that you agree with. Everyone else is a big ole meany making your cry. Boo hoo.

                  Then you started another thread and thought it would be different.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

                  I have no problem with personalities. I think personalities are great. The weirder, the better. There's a big difference between helpful, caring, thoughtful advice/criticism, and thoughtLESS, drive-by style bullying. There was at least one post (as I recall, more) that definitely fell under that category. THAT'S what I didn't "sign up for." .
                  I'd say be a big boy and take it normally but what you are really seeing is what i have pointed out over the years - entitlement. I wasn't surprised by the names involved. They are all for strong opinions and telling you like it is UNTIL its someone else telling them like it is - THEN there are calls for kindness and complaints of being rude.

                  The really strange argument I found in his thread was that someone supposedly experienced in the creative process actually argued that thinking about a design job was not working on it. Every creative professional I know includes thinking about it as part of that process. Some creatives I know wouldn't put a thing on paper until days 8-10 but thats the end result of where creativity takes place - in the mind. the putting it down is just the end game.

                  LIke it or not thinking about a logo job for an hour is an hour of logo work.

                  I think the disconnect happened because you were looking for opinions on one particular thing but some took it to mean that you wanted a total evaluation of what you do and who you are. Something they would not take kindly to if the roles were reversed and whine at high pitch when they are on the receiving end.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    The really strange argument I found in his thread was that someone supposedly experienced in the creative process actually argued that thinking about a design job was not working on it. Every creative professional I know includes thinking about it as part of that process. Some creatives I know wouldn't put a thing on paper until days 8-10 but thats the end result of where creativity takes place - in the mind. the putting it down is just the end game.

                    LIke it or not thinking about a logo job for an hour is an hour of logo work.
                    When a client puts down their hard earned money for a project, they want results ... not deep thoughts, unless they are hiring you to be a consultant. You can't prove that you thought about something for an hour, especially if you don't convey those thoughts to the client in the form of a concept for the project. A logo is a visual. If he thought about it, the client owns that thought, if paid for. Where's the proof such thought exists, if not in a visual concept?

                    But nice try ... who wouldn't want to make $60 for a thought and get away with it, when the client is clearly expecting that thought to be realized on paper or as a digital image. But it would make a great WSO ... how to make $60 for a thought.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      But it would make a great WSO ... how to make $60 for a thought.
                      Yes!

                      While an idea is just in ones head it is up for grabs for anyone and for use of anything.

                      It does the client absolutely no good while it is solely in the creators head.

                      If the creator/artist dies during the sales process, that idea dies with them, and the client would be SOL. The client at that point would have full rights to sue for their money back. They never received anything for money.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        I didn't get the memo that new people were not entitled to give their opinion
                        When the opinion is that everyone else is wrong and bad and rude - and when it comes from someone who appears to be brand new ("appears to be" may be the keyword there)....shouldn't be surprising when people strike back. It's a great example of how NOT to become part of a group online or offline.

                        That "new" person has yet to offer one scintilla of advice or share one bit of knowledge of his own. His only contributions have been to talk down to others here and not much of a stretch to guess which 2-3 members would jump to his defense.

                        I doubt he's of age - and I don't think it's his first time here, either.
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                        ***
                        One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                          Do you realize what you are doing?
                          Sure he does...he's posting in a way to make people angry and make them react.

                          I'm putting him on "ignore" with a few others who reside there - no sense wasting time on people with no knowledge/experience/substance/interest.
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                          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
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                          One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
                          what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                        It does the client absolutely no good while it is solely in the creators head.

                        If the creator/artist dies during the sales process, that idea dies with them, and the client would be SOL.

                        News Flash Jill!! The OP is alive, The agreed time was never extended and the process was halted by the client without the OP having been late on anything much less dead with the thought only stuck in his head. You and Suzanne are just creating strawmen after strawmen. What could have happened makes no argument against what did happen.

                        Try telling a lawyer he has no right to compensation after thinking of a strategy for a case for an hour that you decided to drop afterwards. See how that goes over.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                          But he's not a lawyer - he's a freelancer. He's competing with other freelancers out there who will cut him out in a heartbeat if they can. If he were a lawyer - he would have had a better contract to begin with.

                          I'm not sure what you are arguing. Do you think he should keep the money? He can do that if he wants. Might do more than $60 worth of damage to his reputation if that customer knows others who need work done.

                          The opinions here - and this situation - could HELP the OP if he weren't so thin skinned. It's a lesson in setting expectations (refunds) at the beginning - a caution to get something done quickly (a mockup) to start the work - and about scheduling work.
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                          One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
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                          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                            But he's not a lawyer - he's a freelancer. He's competing with other freelancers out there who will cut him out in a heartbeat if they can. If he were a lawyer - he would have had a better contract to begin with.

                            I'm not sure what you are arguing. Do you think he should keep the money? He can do that if he wants. Might do more than $60 worth of damage to his reputation if that customer knows others who need work done.

                            The opinions here - and this situation - could HELP the OP if he weren't so thin skinned. It's a lesson in setting expectations (refunds) at the beginning - a caution to get something done quickly (a mockup) to start the work - and about scheduling work.
                            And, that thread could have served as an educational thread for other readers who are starting out as service providers.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                            But he's not a lawyer - he's a freelancer.
                            all the one man attorney offices around the country who are in essence freelancers salute you.

                            If he were a lawyer - he would have had a better contract to begin with
                            Yes of course we all know that all the $60 design jobs on the internet have emailed or faxed copies of contracts signed. Such a silly point. Worse that its on an IM forum where thats almost never done. Millions of dollars move every day on the internet from essentially contracts from written communications not actual contracts.

                            The opinions here - and this situation - could HELP the OP if he weren't so thin skinned.
                            You can always do with intelligent opinions. The problem is there are literally millions of people online who swear their's is intelligent when its nowhere near the fact. Whats my position? Refund or complete the job - not as Suzanne is trying to spin - keep the money for nothing.

                            Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                            No. My only point is Sebastian is being very contradictory.

                            Talk about others using straw man arguments. Sheesh.
                            Sheeesh somebody needs to consult a dictionary. A contradiction would apply if he was maintaining two fundamentally opposed viewpoints at the same time. He didn't. He proposed a more peaceful dialogue then a bunch of you resisted it, chewed it up and spat it out in his direction. He THEN upon your rejection defended himself against the arrogant onslaught that because he was new he could be talked down to
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                            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


                              Sheeesh somebody needs to consult a dictionary. A contradiction would apply if he was maintaining two fundamentally opposed viewpoints at the same time. He didn't. He proposed a more peaceful dialogue then a bunch of you resisted it, chewed it up and spat it out in his direction. He THEN upon your rejection defended himself against the arrogant onslaught that because he was new he could be talked down to
                              No, while preaching the high road he is insulting, condescending and disrespectful.

                              It's very sad that you are an intelligent man, but use convoluted thinking to defend odd positions in some threads and try to get people's goats. Especially being that you are "voluntarily inactive and not here much".
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                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                                No, while preaching the high road he is insulting, condescending and disrespectful.
                                that happens when someone proposes peace and you spit in their face. Its a contradiction only in your dreams. to put it blunt nothing in this thread to him earns his respect and the fact that you been here longer and posted more than him doesn't make you automatically right. US proposed peace to Japan. Japan then bombed pearl harbor. it was not "contradictory" for the US to then respond in kind to Japan. If you think it is then its you own convoluted thinking

                                It's very sad that you are an intelligent man, but use convoluted thinking to defend odd positions in some threads and try to get people's goats.
                                I know. how dare I step in and use logic to defend a newbie that your little group was bullying the life out of. Alas you will be alone in your sadness because I certainly don't recognize your ability to reason well enough to consider what is and what is not convoluted. this is the same kind of nonsense a number of you do over and over again. You attack someone or a viewpoint, someone defends them so a defense of those you attack is "to get people's goat" but your attacks are just fine.


                                Especially being that you are "voluntarily inactive and not here much".
                                I'm not because I disappear for long stretches of time - not that you are even owed an explanation - You will just have to live with it because no matter what my profile says you have no control how much or how little I post.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                  Do tell so you are not trying to tell the OP how to behave eh? Does it hurt the feet doing all that dancing on the top of a pin? I've always wondered
                                  I was trained in Russian classical ballet. I'm used to being on my toes on a small platform, with bleeding blisters to boot.

                                  Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                                  No, while preaching the high road he is insulting, condescending and disrespectful.

                                  It's very sad that you are an intelligent man, but use convoluted thinking to defend odd positions in some threads and try to get people's goats. Especially being that you are "voluntarily inactive and not here much".
                                  I don't mind someone taking the odd/off position in discussion forums. He's just taking one for the team (please let me have this dream).

                                  As for vacuum salesmen, I know that I can only really consider 1% of what they might be talking about to be serious. They are a funny breed.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                    Folks - you are letting Mike and TimothyW and the new kid on the block ...push your buttons.

                                    Mike doesn't care - he's found a new excuse to insult people he doesn't like...which is basically everyone here. The newbie doesn't care - he has no clue to begin with and is only here to argue. TimothyW doesn't care - he's just mad people didn't agree with him to begin with.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                      Mike doesn't care - he's found a new excuse to insult people he doesn't like...which is basically everyone here.
                                      Theres that ever lasting fantasy that our small group "we" in the basement represent all of WF (or even all in the basement these days). Its kind of like group therapy to cope with the real world.

                                      Always good for at least a smirk though

                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      Human beings are animals.
                                      Kinda missed "(and not merely in a biological sense) " part eh? Not surprising
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                        Theres that ever lasting fantasy that our small group "we" in the basement represent all of WF (or even all in the basement these days). Its kind of like group therapy to cope with the real world.
                                        No really, Your insults are actually a popular subject of private messages I get. Two really great members left, and they told me it was because of you. I left for a few months, because of you.

                                        And I consider you as proof that we do not possess free will. I'm not kidding. I honestly don't think anyone would choose to be consistently abrasive and mean spirited.

                                        I think we are just the way we are born. I'm a pretentious bore, and you are aggressively mean spirited. It's like you will attack with the slightest provocation.Your anger completely overpowers any logical argument you may have.

                                        It's not that you are a fool, I've read some truly insightful posts from you. But in most cases, certainly any posts relating to me, you are vicious. I mean your viciousness is stronger than any point you try to make. It clouds your logic. I know you don't see it. But many do. I certainly do.

                                        I believe, based on my experience here, that this is simply the way you are, and not really related to anything I say. But you see me as a threat (believe me, I know your response to this. I would write it out, but I know it would change the result). And your response is always, without exception, to viciously attack.

                                        Have you ever read one of your attack posts after you wrote it? Imagine someone talked to you the way you talk to others here. Can you imagine the conversation?

                                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                        Kinda missed "(and not merely in a biological sense) " part eh? Not surprising

                                        See? Even when I post something harmless....it's met with insults. Not the "Riffle is teasing Claude" insults, I mean one from your heart. One you really mean to injure or anger someone.

                                        OK, here's a gift;

                                        People are animals, and not just in the biological sense. There's your treat for the day.

                                        Added later; If this post gets me banned, I consider it a good value. I enjoyed most of you here.

                                        I miss Big Frank.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                          No really, Your insults are actually a popular subject of private messages I get. Two really great members left, and they told me it was because of you. I left for a few months, because of you.
                                          Newsflash!! (I seem to be using that a lot today ) there are two people just in this thread who may leave because of how your crew has treated them AND I have heard from a lot of people of color that they didn't want to stick around because a few of your friends. So the world as you believe is the case doesn't circulate around you or what you hear. Shocking (to you) but true. there are PMs I get as well.

                                          And I consider you as proof that we do not possess free will.
                                          Yeah I know your standard of proof is always amusing.


                                          I'm not kidding. I honestly don't think anyone would choose to be consistently abrasive and mean spirited.
                                          And yet here I am in this thread being viciously attacked by you for defending a new member. You are proof (see what I did there?) of the bias I was talking about. If its you or yours ripping some new member mums the word and all is fine. If its a racist rant you'll never hear outrage much from you. If its me defending another member against an attack then its abrasive and mean spirited because as always abrasive and disruptive is always code word for disrupting of your sides views.

                                          I'd respond to your attempt at being some expert on psychology (i mean beyond chuckling) or the human condition but its much too inconsequential to be worth the time. This was something amusing though

                                          See? Even when I post something harmless....it's met with insults. Not the "Riffle is teasing Claude" insults, I mean one from your heart. One you really mean to injure or anger someone.
                                          You really need help Claude. Desperately. Your "vicious animal" insult of me last week was "harmless" and not meant to be at attempt at injury or anger and one from the heart? I wonder why no one else in the thread was being compared to animals since we all are? Hypocrisy much? call Cali

                                          So pile on because all you have of me in this thread is me defending a new member from all of your attacks. Its a great expose moment. Last time i heard how awful i was for doing that it was Frank ripping some woman telling her she couldn't get a man and I was all wrong for defending her there too. The beat goes on.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                            If its you or yours ripping some new member mums the word and all is fine. If its a racist rant you'll never hear outrage.
                                            That's simply wrong. I don't know if it's a lie, because I don't know if you believe it...but it's completely wrong.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                              That's simply wrong. I don't know if it's a lie, because I don't know if you believe it...but it's completely wrong.
                                              Oh its right. Truth might not sound good in your ears but doesn't make it untrue. Go ahead lets see the post where you go off on anyone for paragraphs like you just did to me even though there are some who are repeat racists posters in this OT section.

                                              Its completely utterly right. This idea I am angry with everyone is because I just have never had deep respect for people who judge morally based on who their friend is and thats pretty much par for the course down here with some of you. bringing it back on topic - Had the OP been one of your friends this thread would be entirely different.

                                              You collectively almost never judge things based on the logical merits. you judge and react based on who you know and whose your friend. Thom isn't, the new guy isn't so hey its open season on them and its only abrasive when Mike A objects to the open season on the newbie. its all self serving rationality not logical in the least though your do try hard to delude yourself otherwise.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                You collectively almost never judge things based on the logical merits. you judge and react based on who you know and whose your friend. Thom isn't, the new guy.
                                                Ok, why bring up Thom? Who in the world doesn't like Thom? The new guy? When he was Cartmanbrah, I thought he was hilarious.

                                                Timothy? He's pretty tightly wound, but I have nothing against him. I think he and I would get along very well in person.

                                                Honestly, this racism you see is something I just don't see. That doesn't mean it isn't there...but I haven't seen it.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                                                  Honestly, this racism you see is something I just don't see. That doesn't mean it isn't there...but I haven't seen it.
                                                  Which being interpreted means - "nope. I can't point to any evidence whatsoever that what you said is false Mike"

                                                  and please spare me......You just magically missed all the threads where racism was discussed or where your comrades went off on someone? Not even credible.

                                                  P.S. meant Timothy not Thom....wouldn't reference a fraternity member for that
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                    Which being interpreted means - "nope. I can't point to any evidence whatsoever that what you said is false Mike"

                                                    and please spare me......You just magically missed all the threads where racism was discussed or where your comrades went off on someone? Not even credible.

                                                    P.S. meant Timothy not Thom....wouldn't reference a fraternity member for that
                                                    No. It means I haven't seen racism on the Forum. I was even trying to be fair about it.

                                                    Talking about racism isn't racism. But to be clear, your race isn't why I don't like you. I don't like you because you are mean to others.

                                                    I hope you don't treat people in real life the same way. I imagine it wouldn't be a fun way to live.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                      No. It means I haven't seen racism on the Forum. I was even trying to be fair about it.

                                                      Talking about racism isn't racism
                                                      and who said it was but its in those discussion many racist things have been said which almost everyone (but racists) have admitted were that. To say you a longstanding member that have even been in the threads have never seen any is just awfully telling.

                                                      But to be clear, your race isn't why I don't like you
                                                      Just to be clear I don't care and your race isn't why I don't like you

                                                      I don't like you because you are mean to others
                                                      On aboard of tens of thousands I have been so called mean to your friends not all people. I could tell you two reasons I am not one of your fans but i kinda missed where this was a thread about why we are not friends

                                                      I hope you don't treat people in real life the same way. I imagine it wouldn't be a fun way to live.
                                                      I hope you are not as self absorbed in real life although it might be a fun way to live but not for those around you. Your whole spiel is an obvious sham. When the newbie was being attacked in this thread you were as muted as a church mouse with laryngitis. You only stood up to lash out when I defended the newbie from your friends attacks. Kind of an MO with you. When that lady upstairs was being mercilessly attacked by your friend (probably one of the most savage attacks I have ever seen on a woman at WF) you were all commiserating with your pal over his outrage at my objecting.

                                                      So what else is new Claude? Can we get back on the topic now?
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                                      Banned
                                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                      I don't like you because you are mean to others.

                                                      He said the same thing to his teacher in school when it wasn't his turn to be line leader.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                                            there are two people just in this thread who may leave because of how your crew has treated them
                                            He's got a crew?

                                            I don't remember ever getting picked for any team things here.

                                            Hmmmm.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                              Banned
                                              Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                                              He's got a crew?

                                              I don't remember ever getting picked for any team things here.

                                              Hmmmm.
                                              Take a look at whom participates in the mutual thankfest threads that take place here in the basement and you may be able to define the crews!

                                              As you know, posts in the basement don't count towards your total but the thanks do. Go figure. Talk about a goofy policy...some of the peeps with crews build up massive thanks to post ratios in the "no marketing discussion" section, and then they venture upstairs where some ignorant noobs actually think all of the numbers mean something with regards to credibility and helpfulness. Yeah, for some folks, it basically indicates they have a large crew in the basement...team harassment and noobie bashing does seem to help build crews down here. LMFAO...great policy, eh?

                                              You can be on my team if you like.

                                              Cheers

                                              -don
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                                                Take a look at whom participates in the mutual thankfest threads that place here in the basement and you may be able to define the crews!
                                                lol...Yep...sometimes its like they are taking roll call.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                                                Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                                                Take a look at whom participates in the mutual thankfest threads that take place here in the basement and you may be able to define the crews!
                                                Everybody, thank Don.

                                                Welcome newest member Don to the basement crew.

                                                Guilt by association.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                                  Banned
                                                  Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                                                  Everybody, thank Don.

                                                  Welcome newest member Don to the basement crew.

                                                  Guilt by association.
                                                  I don't think that will happen... In-fact a small but relatively noisy anti-Don crew used to exist somewhere down here...fragments of it probably still do exist.

                                                  I have made a fair number of posts in the basement, but for the most part, you were hanging upstairs when I was more "active" down here. Usually I try to stick to music threads down here these days --> unless something having to do with imaging etc. is being discussed, or I am really, really bored.

                                                  Cheers

                                                  -don
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                  Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                                                  Everybody, thank Don.

                                                  Welcome newest member Don to the basement crew.

                                                  Guilt by association.
                                                  It doesn't work like that Jill. You need a quorum. like 7 or eight thanks wide all only from the fraternity members at the bottom of the post. Even better if the post is nothing of substance. Think like when Allen could even announce he came from the bathroom and get 200 thanks - just on a much smaller scale.
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                                    Banned
                                                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                    It doesn't work like that Jill. You need a quorum. like 7 or eight thanks wide all only from the fraternity members at the bottom of the post. Even better if the post is nothing of substance. Think like when Allen could even announce he came from the bathroom and get 200 thanks - just on a much smaller scale.
                                                    Indeed. Quite well stated.

                                                    Cheers

                                                    -don
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                              Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                                              He's got a crew?

                                              I don't remember ever getting picked for any team things here.

                                              Hmmmm.
                                              You just make sure you are there for the Bball game as distraction. Robert and I are depending on you.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author irawr
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                  Originally Posted by irawr View Post

                                                  Mike, just trying to help here:

                                                  The signup form: "Sitepromoone"

                                                  Also, uh, cough, I would suggest you do CRO on that form. Cough.

                                                  And "#showcase" and "#contact" in the main navigation.

                                                  I am legitimately providing feedback, in case this stuff isn't in the todo, don't think too hard about this.
                                                  yep those are in the todo list while we are in beta. Not too worried about links and signup forms. We've been more interested in the app and concept functionality which has gotten good reviews. we'l sweat the small stuff when we have the bigger issues licked.

                                                  Have no idea why thats in this thread though
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author irawr
                                                    Banned
                                                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                    yep those are in the todo list while we are in beta. Not too worried about links and signup forms. We've been more interested in the app and concept functionality which has gotten good reviews. we'l sweat the small stuff when we have the bigger issues licked.

                                                    Have no idea why thats in this thread though
                                                    Deleted it. I don't know, it just seemed like the thread lacked constructive posts.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                      Originally Posted by irawr View Post

                                                      Deleted it. I don't know, it just seemed like the thread lacked constructive posts.
                                                      Lol....okay...that was funny.
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author irawr
                                                        Banned
                                                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                        Lol....okay...that was funny.
                                                        You should save your 10k post for the launch of that. Would be kind of epic.
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                                                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                          Originally Posted by irawr View Post

                                                          You should save your 10k post for the launch of that. Would be kind of epic.
                                                          maybe (though I hardly think it would be epic) but with a phase two coming up next week which is another whole app release tied to this one we will probably be in beta for a couple months more.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                          Added later; If this post gets me banned, I consider it a good value. I enjoyed most of you here.

                                          I miss Big Frank.

                                          No Claude unlike you and many others I almost never hit the report button. Mom and Dad raised a strong man who can take words. even less the case when the person is just so off they shouldn't be humored with that kind of recognition

                                          but what in the world happened to Frank? He's no longer here?
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                                          • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                            No Claude unlike you and many others I almost never hit the report button. Mom and Dad raised a strong man who can take words. even less the case when the person is just so off they shouldn't be humored with that kind of recognition

                                            but what in the world happened to Frank? He's no longer here?
                                            In all honesty, I can tell you I have NEVER hit a report button on anyone, ever except SPAM posts upstairs.

                                            Also ,the Ignore button ? NOPE, never.

                                            I wish I could put the Ignore button on the loud mouth Vice Principle at the school PTAa meetings. But that is just NOT part of reality living in a civilized world !
                                            Unfortunately I have to deal with her
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                                          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                            Banned
                                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                            but what in the world happened to Frank? He's no longer here?
                                            He's here and still posting...

                                            http://www.warriorforum.com/members/bigfrank.html

                                            http://www.warriorforum.com/search.p...rchid=42893573

                                            He made roughly 40 posts on the 7th and 8th...almost all to a single thread.

                                            Cheers

                                            -don
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                            No Claude unlike you and many others I almost never hit the report button. Mom and Dad raised a strong man who can take words. even less the case when the person is just so off they shouldn't be humored with that kind of recognition

                                            but what in the world happened to Frank? He's no longer here?
                                            Actually, I think I've hit the report button once (except for spam) in my entire time here. I don't remember ever hitting it for you.

                                            Again, your anger skews your perceptions.

                                            I want to apologize to you and everyone reading this thread.

                                            Two nights ago, I got no sleep (trying to calm a cat new to my home). So I did something I almost never do, I let my feelings show. I'm not saying i didn't mean what I said to you, I meant every word. But posting it..allowing myself to get angry and let it out....isn't something I normally do.

                                            And I don't know that you deserved the thrashing. Nobody here gets to me like you do. You are the only one here that really pushes my buttons. And so my response was as much about my personal prejudice, than anything you said.

                                            And when I say prejudice, I don't mean race, I mean disposition.

                                            So, Seriously I'm sorry I posted what I did. It really wasn't called for.

                                            And your two responses on the "two black hole" thread were insightful, so I thanked them.

                                            We'll never be friends. But I behaved badly (for me anyway). And it wasn't deserved.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                              Actually, I think I've hit the report button once (except for spam) in my entire time here. I don't remember ever hitting it for you.

                                              Again, your anger skews your perceptions.
                                              Again Claude You are not a mind or emotion reader hooked to a forum. You always over state your case and convince yourself its the proven truth. this is a classic example. I had no anger skewing my position. I saw you in open thread admit to hitting a report button a few months back which was your own admission so it was based entirely on fact and nope Never said you hit one on me.

                                              I let my feelings show. I'm not saying i didn't mean what I said to you, I meant every word.
                                              then its an apology to save face and really a non apology. Its theatrics. It like telling your wife she's a fat slob but you shouldn't have said it out loud. Lol. a few months on the couch and no soup for you (Seinfeld reference). Nothing noble or even apologetic to it. Not that I would seek or expect it from you but I am not engaging in the theatrics of a non-apology apology.

                                              By the way believe it or not .. there no anger...I'm sitting here smiling to myself at the usual self portrait of yourself. You know nothing of me beyond these forums singled me out in a thread as a vicious animal but tried to sell there was nothing to the phrase, against all rationality and credibility claim there has been no racism on this board that you could see (only two rational explanations to that one neither of which fits the image you would like to paint of yourself ) and rise only to the occasion for rebuking straight talk when its directed at you or your friends. Savagery of a woman upstairs was fine by you (yep fact by something you posted at the time not skewing anything)

                                              I actually could see Suzanne and I being friends off line. We'd argue a lot...I mean A LOT but i buy she's real. We would never be friends as you say rightfully because I just don't see that in you.

                                              Now that we have both declared our non friendship at least 4 times in this thread perhaps we can now return to regular programming?

                                              and I know... the narrative might well now be how ungracious I am to respond to your non apology apology with this reply. I know how the game is played. However I'll always value real over duplicity. Not angry in the least. There are billions of people on the planet and hundreds of millions online. You certainly can just not like a stranger without it being anything to get angry about. Happens every day.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                              Banned
                                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                              Actually, I think I've hit the report button once (except for spam) in my entire time here.
                                              That's ok Claude. I, of course, reported sebastianbach, cartmanbrah, cartmanbrahs, keyboardwordrria, lloydchristmas, winnertakesitall, theequalizer PeNnYwIsEr, LaNCeARmsROnG both to the mods, and to Alaister, because I don't believe the mods can really act on that kind of report on their own.

                                              He's a troll. Fun, hilarious, and persistent, but a troll none the less. But don't worry ... he'll be back ... and back .... and back. lol.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                That's ok Claude. I, of course, reported sebastianbach, cartmanbrah, cartmanbrahs, keyboardwordrria, lloydchristmas, winnertakesitall, theequalizer PeNnYwIsEr, LaNCeARmsROnG both to the mods, and to Alaister, because I don't believe the mods can really act on that kind of report on their own.

                                                He's a troll. Fun, hilarious, and persistent, but a troll none the less. But don't worry ... he'll be back ... and back .... and back. lol.
                                                I can hardly wait to see what he tries for Easter.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                  Banned
                                                  Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                                                  I can hardly wait to see what he tries for Easter.
                                                  .. and April's Fool will probably be a doozy.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                    Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                                    I was trained in Russian classical ballet. I'm used to being on my toes on a small platform, with bleeding blisters to boot.
                                    You are too modest. Dancing on a pin as you do is more toenail control than toes

                                    I don't mind someone taking the odd/off position in discussion forums.
                                    LOL....Its not odd. No more than a sane person walking into an asylum is odd. Ot regulars are always so amusing. They swear because they hang out in the basement they represent life on the surface
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                                    • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                      You are too modest. Dancing on a pin as you do is more toenail control than toes



                                      LOL....Its not odd. No more than a sane person walking into an asylum is odd. Ot regulars are always so amusing. They swear because they hang out in the basement they represent life on the surface
                                      Well, I have to admit I think the OP was a little too sensitive to the Thread he started. I think if you are going to start a Thread then you should expect and be prepared for people to give answers and their opinions. Good or bad , learn to accept that.

                                      That being said, I know sometimes I fail miserably

                                      BUT

                                      I make an attempt to behave in here like I do when I'm at a PTA meeting, Neighborhood Association, Sunday School, Grocery Store etc..etc..

                                      in other wards if I can't say it directly to your face then I will not say it anywhere including on an Internet Forum.

                                      Like I said I have failed miserably at this. But I am truly trying to work on that.

                                      Telling people and referring to people as "stupid shit" .. .etc.etc... is just plain laziness because you cannot take the time and diligence to express yourself in a more intelligent way.

                                      And really takes away the credibility of people when they resort to this!
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                                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                        Banned
                                        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                        Telling people and referring to people as "stupid shit" .. .
                                        Says the man who called his wife a dog. lol. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? Go back and read the post again and you will see that I did not refer to a person as stupid shit. I said that the OP has a habit of dropping by OT and ranting on and on and on about stupid shit. Most of the time, it's business related and I just hit the report button and send it off to Main. This has also drifted to business related, but the title is not business related, so I didn't this time.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                          They swear because they hang out in the basement they represent life on the surface
                                          I never swore to that. Quite the contrary.

                                          There was an out numbering of "life on the surface" just roughly 2 months ago which led me to spending more time here.

                                          I still go up and peek in to see where I might be able to help, but when you get a wall of the same question asked over and over again it's time to come back downstairs.

                                          I think there is a group of people who entertain one another, but I wouldn't classify us all as completely like minded or exactly what life on the surface should be in it's entirety.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                          SDo you have a problem with reading comprehension? Go back and read the post again and you will see that I did not refer to a person as stupid shit. I said that the OP has a habit of dropping by OT and ranting on and on and on about stupid shit..
                                          Just semantics. It doesn't mater if you called him " stupid shit" or what he brought up as "stupid shit "

                                          It's still denigrating to someone who in all essence you do not really know at all.


                                          I would venture to guess ( this is just a guess ) that if this was a Warrior Forum mastermind in a City you wouldn't say this to him face to face.( let me reiterate before I get accused of being presumptuous, this is a GUESS)

                                          If you do, well that is your prerogative and this is a Free World and we are free to voice our opinions.
                                          More power to you.

                                          Just do not be surprised if you get a subset of humans ( outside the original targeted person) who react very negatively to what you say.
                                          And end of bringing it to light in an open forum like this.
                                          That is also our own opinions and we are allowed to voice them openly as well
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                                          Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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                                          • Profile picture of the author irawr
                                            Banned
                                            What this thread has taught me about freelancers: do not piss them off.

                                            What this thread has taught me about being a freelancer: it sounds like it sucks.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                            It's still denigrating to someone who in all essence you do not really know at all.
                                            I understand what you are saying.

                                            I also got the impression from Suzanne that she has spotted the behaviors of the OP as reaching a vicious cycle.

                                            Now I don't know personally, as I've not gone through and researched these behaviors myself, but I gots to tell ya, there comes a time sometimes when you see something happen often enough it can fall into that "stupid shit" category.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                            Banned
                                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                            Just semantics. It doesn't mater if you called him " stupid shit" or what he brought up as "stupid shit "
                                            The difference is a great deal more than just semantics and you and a few others frequently spin my posts and others posts to make it look like I said something entirely different from what I said. One is a direct personal attack on the person and the other is not. I did not call him a stupid shit. I did call some of his rant threads stupid shit and this one and the one that spawned it are perfect examples of that.

                                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                            It's still denigrating to someone who in all essence you do not really know at all.
                                            I know the same that anyone here knows him. Discussion forums aren't built only for best buddies. There are hundreds of thousands of people here. That should be obvious that a lot of people who don't know each other are chatting about stuff.

                                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                            I would venture to guess ( this is just a guess ) that if this was a Warrior Forum mastermind in a City you wouldn't say this to him face to face.( let me reiterate before I get accused of being presumptuous, this is a GUESS)

                                            If you do, well that is your prerogative and this is a Free World and we are free to voice our opinions.
                                            More power to you.
                                            First, a Warrior Forum mastermind group is the last place on earth you would ever find me, but if someone tied me up and dragged me there and tied me to a chair, yes, I would say exactly the same thing to him. It's how I feel about the way you treat clients and I have years of experience on the topic. I would never dream of keeping a deposit when I didn't have anything to show the client in return for their money, and I feel strongly about people that do that.

                                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                            Just do not be surprised if you get a subset of humans ( outside the original targeted person) who react very negatively to what you say.
                                            And end of bringing it to light in an open forum like this.
                                            That is also our own opinions and we are allowed to voice them openly as well
                                            Do you actually think I care one whit about what anyone thinks about me. But if I were the OP, I would be worried about the impression that these two threads have given prospective clients, and these two threads have been viewed by quite a few people, some of who may have been in the market for a logo. Bet they'll be looking elsewhere.

                                            You or anyone else doesn't like me because I'm standing up for the client who got nothing, pfffft. I don't care. Sorry, but I just don't think that an hour's thought by the OP is worth $60, especially when the client walks away with zilch and out $60 to boot.

                                            Oh, and by the way, since you seem to like to put words into my mouth that never were there, I did not respond to the "poor little beaten up newb." Never said a word to him. I have a theory about him, but for now, it's private. It's been hit on once in this thread, but not yet known in my view.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                          News Flash Jill!! The OP is alive, The agreed time was never extended and the process was halted by the client without the OP having been late on anything much less dead with the thought only stuck in his head. You and Suzanne are just creating strawmen after strawmen. What could have happened makes no argument against what did happen.

                          Try telling a lawyer he has no right to compensation after thinking of a strategy for a case for an hour that you decided to drop afterwards. See how that goes over.
                          Ok, I know OP is alive. Things went off on a slide for a bit.

                          If you want to get back to the initial argument found on a different thread we can do that.

                          The initial argument I'm guessing was if the client was entitled to pulling out on the project before its completion, no?

                          We are all going to have different ideas about this.

                          First off, if the OP didn't have signed/acknolwedged agreements in place on what that down payment was for then this whole conversation is already in the terlet.

                          So I'll wait for the OP to provide us with links to what the client was promised, as well as their personal disclaimer as to what happens with refunds.

                          Personally I'm thinking the terms of the job were not clear, and I'd take it as a lesson in my own business to make those kinds of terms for that kind of scenario clear as a bell. And because I'm not a mean spiteful person (as some I think are wanting to paint me here) I would refund the money no questions asked.

                          Now if OP can truly admit that there was clarity that this money was not refundable for any reason what so ever then he should keep it.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                          You and Suzanne are just creating strawmen after strawmen. What could have happened makes no argument against what did happen.

                          Try telling a lawyer he has no right to compensation after thinking of a strategy for a case for an hour that you decided to drop afterwards. See how that goes over.
                          A lawyer will likely have a signed, written legal agreement. The OP has nothing of the sort. At Day 7, with nothing to show the client, there is little time left to submit real concepts digitally, have the client look them over and decide what changes they want, make those changes and resubmit. The client, at Day 7, most likely expected to see at least one concept ... some proof that his project was being worked on. He got none of that and lost confidence in the abilities of this designer. Did said designer overbook or procrastinate to point that there is little time left for alterations and final approval? By Day 7 of a 10 Day project, he should be finalizing ... not merely committing one hour of his time to a thought.

                          Obviously, keeping that $60 deposit is really important to him. But it doesn't surprise me on the WF that people do business this way and rally behind someone who wants to keep someone's money without giving them anything tangible in return.
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                        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                          News Flash Jill!! The OP is alive, The agreed time was never extended and the process was halted by the client without the OP having been late on anything much less dead with the thought only stuck in his head. You and Suzanne are just creating strawmen after strawmen. What could have happened makes no argument against what did happen.

                          Try telling a lawyer he has no right to compensation after thinking of a strategy for a case for an hour that you decided to drop afterwards. See how that goes over.
                          How nice of you to say "News Flash Jill"...

                          How do you know OP was not late on providing anything?
                          (I sure would have wanted TANGIBLE examples by seven days.
                          Almost all businesses want stuff done expediently, or by a deadline.)

                          In real estate you deal with earnest money deposits for much higher amounts than $60.
                          It is clearly spelled out if that deposit is refundable or not, and under what circumstances.
                          A standard for any kind of contract or agreement involving deposits.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      When a client puts down their hard earned money for a project, they want results ... not deep thoughts, unless they are hiring you to be a consultant. You can't prove that you thought about something for an hour, especially if you don't convey those thoughts to the client in the form of a concept for the project. .
                      from what i understand those results were agreed to come within ten days not seven so your point is pointless. thought IS part of the design process (especially a logo) and you are just making a fool of yourself denying it

                      But nice try ... who wouldn't want to make $60 for a thought and get away with it, when the client is clearly expecting that thought to be realized on paper or as a digital image. But it would make a great WSO ... how to make $60 for a thought.
                      Ridiculous strawman. It was not day 11 and you have no proof whatsoever tht day 11 would have come and there would be nothing but a thought. I suspect it was your over the top post (What you would call attacking if you got it) that probably most upset the OP. Your claim that thinking about a logo (especially a logo where an idea is to be conveyed) does not constitute as work started and effort expended is just nonsense and then your psychic abilities to claim that there would most likely be nothing by day ten just added to the nonsense.

                      I didn't need a nice try - to any logical person knowing the creative process I just debunked your claim - no rational professional logo designer would deny that thinking about a company and the ideas to be conveyed in a logo is not hourly billable. its just utter nonsense.
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        from what i understand those results were agreed to come within ten days not seven so your point is pointless. thought IS part of the design process (especially a logo) and you are just making a fool of yourself denying it
                        I'm well aware of the process of creating logos as I had a thriving business doing that, plus stationery, brochures, catalogs, business cards, flyers .... you name it. Anything in print. The thought process should have begun and been turned into concepts well before 7 days. The process is ... submit concepts, client picks one or two for further development, Day 10 - submit completed logo as a vector, jpg, png, gif, etc.

                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        Ridiculous strawman. It was not day 11 and you have no proof whatsoever tht day 11 would have come and there would be nothing but a thought.
                        And the "designer" has not one iota of proof that they actually thought about the project because the "designer" did not convey that thought visually as a concept. So, in fact, this client has received nothing for their $60.

                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        I didn't need a nice try - to any logical person knowing the creative process I just debunked your claim - no rational professional logo designer would deny that thinking about a company and the ideas to be conveyed in a logo is not hourly billable. its just utter nonsense.
                        Ok ... where's the Idea that he was thinking about? Show me the money.

                        But he's free to operate his "business" any way he sees fit and if taking someone for $60 and not showing them a thing is his gig, more power to him. He won't be the first that takes down payments and delivers not a single thing. Why, on Day 7 when the client clearly wanted to ditch this designer, did he not convey that deep thought he had about the project? Run it by him/her? No mention of that, although the client has paid for that one meager little thought.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          The thought process should have begun and been turned into concepts well before 7 days. The process is ... submit concepts, client picks one or two for further development, Day 10 - submit completed logo as a vector, jpg, png, gif, etc.
                          LOL...what utter rubbish. You don't get to set any time table terms for anyone. I think this is what got the ball rolling. You went into that thread sticking your own chest out trying to tell others how it ought to be done. There are PLENTY of design agencies that will not give you a seven day turn around - especially the busy ones - so to claim there is some universal time table for all logo designers is just more nonsense. Maybe you were just not busy enough.

                          And the "designer" has not one iota of proof that they actually thought about the project because the "designer" did not convey that thought visually as a concept. So, in fact, this client has received nothing for their $60.
                          forever and ever a weak argument because the client was the one that stopped the process from going forward. So the whole class can see how foolish this argument is - so you come up with a design idea that rocks, you see it in your minds eyes, take up the pencil and start to put it down on paper and the phone rings cancelling the order - so that means no work was done. Alrightee then

                          See the issue isn't even the refund. It s your implication the OP was negligent or unprofessional because he doesn't meet your idea (or even the clients necessarily) all because you think you get to tell everyone else what their workflow must be. Artists works differently. My cousin is an excellent artist and often has people rip off his work. He will do literally hundreds of versions of a design . His sister almost as good but better in being more emotive won't. She will think about it for days until the concepts have been visualized fully in her mind and put it down in one day when she has it. According to you she has done no billable work until it goes down on paper or digitized which is just nonsense. If she died or by her own fault and deadline doesn't deliver that idea then you would have a point but that's not what happened here so your point still remains straw



                          Ok ... where's the Idea that he was thinking about? Show me the money.
                          I don't do mind reading over the internet . Thats more your thing. It would be for him to tell you

                          Run it by him/her? No mention of that, although the client has paid for that one meager little thought.
                          See why I have never thought much about your claims of others being arrogant? You can' get much more arrogant than thinking someone else's thought which you don't have a clue about was either little or meager. The arrogant tone the Op was talking about is on full display.
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                            LOL...what utter rubbish. You don't get to set any time table terms for anyone.
                            Nope, I don't. That was my timetable. It kept my clients happy. His timetable didn't keep his client happy, apparently.

                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                            forever and ever a weak argument because the client was the one that stopped the process from going forward. So the whole class can see how foolish this argument is - so you come up with a design idea that rocks, you see it in your minds eyes, take up the pencil and start to put it down on paper and the phone rings cancelling the order - so that means no work was done. Alrightee then
                            Yeah ... some early communication with the client and a simple concept would have alleviated that. But too late for that. Client fired him, and he'll undoubtedly keep the money. Money for nothing and chicks for free.

                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                            See the issue isn't even the refund. It s your implication the OP was negligent or unprofessional
                            Yep, absolutely right. I think the OP is negligent and unprofessional. I didn't really say that in those words, but those are my thoughts exactly, and likely the thoughts of the client, and likely the thoughts of some design prospects reading the thread.

                            And I don't care if that opinion gets his panties in even more of a bunch than they already are. He routinely drops by OT and rants on and on about stupid shit.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    I'd say be a big boy and take it normally but what you are really seeing is what i have pointed out over the years - entitlement. I wasn't surprised by the names involved. They are all for strong opinions and telling you like it is UNTIL its someone else telling them like it is - THEN there are calls for kindness and complaints of being rude.

                    The really strange argument I found in his thread was that someone supposedly experienced in the creative process actually argued that thinking about a design job was not working on it. Every creative professional I know includes thinking about it as part of that process. Some creatives I know wouldn't put a thing on paper until days 8-10 but thats the end result of where creativity takes place - in the mind. the putting it down is just the end game.

                    LIke it or not thinking about a logo job for an hour is an hour of logo work.

                    I think the disconnect happened because you were looking for opinions on one particular thing but some took it to mean that you wanted a total evaluation of what you do and who you are. Something they would not take kindly to if the roles were reversed and whine at high pitch when they are on the receiving end.
                    EXACTLY!!!
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by discrat View Post


                And putting up silly musical videos to drive home a point...well it really weakens your Point, To be honest.
                Boooo! Mj was easily the best part of this thread

                Plus I can't really see any point being weakened in this thread by anything
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      • Profile picture of the author irawr
        Banned
        Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

        That sort of money was peanuts to MJ, he just figured he'd help those families, give them something so everyone could get on with their lives and move on. Everyone just wanted to take from him. He was probably very sad when those who he'd showed great kindness tried to attack him so awfully. Greed is a sad part of human nature.
        Oh come on now, you don't believe the media nonsense do you really? The FBI, audio tapes, evidence, pfft... Sure, whatever.

        It takes the US government at least 2 entire years to find some emails... Let's be serious about this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
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    Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Have reached my "this is tedious now" point, and back to watching "Lizzy Borden" on Netflix now.

      You crack me up Dan. lol
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  • Booby dooby dooby.

    We got cartoon animals now, so I guess evrythin' is mended.
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Lol, this thread is 3 pages long...
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Lol, this thread is 3 pages long...
      Pretty ironic, isn't it? lol
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

        Because they need to realize what they're doing.
        Do you realize what you are doing?

        You come onto an Internet Marketing Forum , have absolutely not one bit of helpful information to share in regards to Internet Marketing (doesn't take much to read those only 5 posts that count as something which isn't much), decide to come into the OFF TOPIC and try giving us your opinion on how we all need to be Emily Post like while singing kumbya.

        None of us will ever take you seriously.
        I can confidently say you have ZERO chance of "converting" anyone down here.

        And so at this point if you are on a mission of some kind to just keep spewing your love fest message, then yes, you have reached TROLL status in my book.

        Good morning all!
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

          Do you realize what you are doing?

          It's Sebastian Bach, he's got bigger problems (18 and life).





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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

          Do you realize what you are doing?

          You come onto an Internet Marketing Forum , have absolutely not one bit of helpful information to share in regards to Internet Marketing (doesn't take much to read those only 5 posts that count as something which isn't much), decide to come into the OFF TOPIC and try giving us your opinion
          Woah! I didn't get the memo that new people were not entitled to give their opinion in the OT and that was only for the chosen few. Thats some fine form post count bullying there -

          on how we all need to be Emily Post like while singing kumbya.
          LOL.....ain't life grand? How dare you tell us to be courteous and peaceful. Copied and ready to be pasted for future objections to straight tell it like it is posts in 2016

          None of us will ever take you seriously.

          Raises hand to show you are wrong

          And so at this point if you are on a mission of some kind to just keep spewing your love fest message, then yes, you have reached TROLL status in my book.
          Its gotten that ridiculous eh? the guy calling for peace is a troll.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post



            Raises hand to show you are wrong

            You don't count. I don't believe you were "converted."

            I'm not seeing it from the way of them posting of them just giving an opinion. Timothy wants to actually DELETE things and EDIT what was said. That is somewhat wanting to CONTROL what is seen by everyone else - not just himself.

            you have reached TROLL status in my book.
            Let's analyze this shall we? 'In my book' means the same to me as "in my opinion." This is just an opinion held by me. It is quite possible that no one else shares this view with me. I'm not forcing anyone to share it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

              Let's analyze this shall we? 'In my book' means the same to me as "in my opinion." This is just an opinion held by me.
              So you mean Like Sebastian has an opinion? but umm his is trolling right? lol
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              • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                So you mean Like Sebastian has an opinion? but umm his is trolling right? lol
                He has more than just an opinion. He is actually telling us how he thinks we need to behave and he is the one trying to convert us. He has taken it a step further to assume that a small lot of us will all be responsible for the downfall of this forum.

                I on the other hand am not telling him not to be nice. I will even defend that he is entitled to that opinion.

                It's when you start thinking you are my superior and you are going to tell me how to act and behave, then I've got a bone to pick. Comments like, "you can't help yourself" come across as very judgemental.

                There is no rule on this forum that one can not elaborate on a subject and give their opinion on how they'd do things or what works for them.

                And I didn't start with the "cancer" references as to describe his behavior.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                  He has more than just an opinion. He is actually telling us how he thinks we need to behave
                  Do tell so you are not trying to tell the OP how to behave eh? Does it hurt the feet doing all that dancing on the top of a pin? I've always wondered
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post



            Its gotten that ridiculous eh? the guy calling for peace is a troll.
            The guy calling for "peace" compares people to cancer and wild animals.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

              The guy calling for "peace" compares people to cancer and wild animals.

              and of course in the history of the forum no one has ever done that right? Shucks just last week a certain Vacuum cleaner fellow did so and got thanked for it but then ahem....he has more than five posts so thats okay right?
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              • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                and of course in the history of the forum no one has ever done that right? Shucks just last week a certain Vacuum cleaner fellow did so and got thanked for it but then ahem....he has more than five posts so thats okay right?
                I can't really respond because I don't know of a post by a certain vacuum cleaner salesman where he called for peace and then offered insults and disrespect.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                  I can't really respond because I don't know of a post by a certain vacuum cleaner salesman where he called for peace and then offered insults and disrespect.
                  He compared human beings to animals (and not merely in a biological sense) which was your previous point. How much did you pay the shippers for moving the goal posts that far?

                  so sebastian just got the context wrong eh? Perfectly acceptable to compare people to animals as a pejorative under the vacuum cleaner salesman instance?
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                  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    He compared human beings to animals (and not merely in a biological sense) which was your previous point. How much did you pay the shippers for moving the goal posts that far?

                    so sebastian just got the context wrong eh? Perfectly acceptable to compare people to animals as a pejorative under the vacuum cleaner salesman instance?
                    No. My only point is Sebastian is being very contradictory.

                    Talk about others using straw man arguments. Sheesh.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    He compared human beings to animals (and not merely in a biological sense) which was your previous point. How much did you pay the shippers for moving the goal posts that far?

                    so sebastian just got the context wrong eh? Perfectly acceptable to compare people to animals as a pejorative under the vacuum cleaner salesman instance?
                    Human beings are animals.
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                    What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
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  • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
    Banned
    You're a true gentleman Mr Anthony. Thank you for bringing class and decency to this rather sordid affair. Tip of the cap to you Sir. You see how they crumble under your scrutiny. Well done, pleasure to observe you give them the dressing down they need.
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    If nothing else, Timothy will be happy when this thread gets shut down.
    3...2...
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    Wwwwwllleeeaaaarrrgggggghhh!

    Mmmwwwwwlllllgggghhhhh!


    bbbbllllbbbbbllllllllbbbbbbllllllll!


    (Ooops, sorry guys — that last one was dippin' your head in jelly.)

    Mmmmmmleeeaaaaaarrrrrrggghhhhhh!

    Wwwwwwhhhlllllggggggg!

    Rrrrrrllllllllffff-ffftttsssssh-ffffpaaaaah-fffpaaaaaah!


    And now — back to the show...
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Princess B

    Clean up on post 175. Not hitting the report button but one word there is a bit much for these forums
    Signature

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    • Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Princess B

      Clean up on post 175. Not hitting the report button but one word there is a bit much for these forums
      Yeah -- too much exuberance for the protuberance.

      Thanks, Mikey.

      You saved me there from appearin' to be a foul-mouthed sucker.
      Signature

      Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I have a theory
        LOL. yeppers
        Signature

        "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

          LOL. yeppers
          There are a couple of dead giveaways actually. I've pm'd Alaister about it. It's in his hands now. We'll see what we see. Then we get to be surprised all over again by someone new. lol.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by irawr View Post

          What this thread has taught me about freelancers: do not piss them off.

          What this thread has taught me about being a freelancer: it sounds like it sucks.
          I can see why you'd say that, but there's another side to it. Being a freelancer can be lucrative and rewarding, you just need a clear and fair agreement in place before you start any work.

          Here's an example: I used to ghostwrite a newsletter that that paid me $75 an issue. On average, it took me about 45 minutes to write it. That's $300 a month for one issue per week, and about 3 hours of work. Getting paid $100 an hour for doing something you enjoy is good money in my book. That was a good gig for several years. I wrote it in my spare time and it pretty much paid for my new car.

          The point is, if you were or are thinking of freelancing, don't let this thread dissuade you from trying it. Of course, as with anything, it's not for everyone.

          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          You collectively almost never judge things based on the logical merits. you judge and react based on who you know and whose your friend.
          There's some truth to that. And probably everyone is guilty of that to one degree or another, myself included. It's a proclivity of human nature, I would guess. Once again you've made me stop and think. That's why I like reading your posts, and thanked that one...abrasiveness notwithstanding.

          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          Take a look at whom participates in the mutual thankfest threads that take place here in the basement and you may be able to define the crews!
          Is it that simple? I thank people for a lot of different reasons, and that includes a few people I don't particularly care for. And sometimes I don't thank people who may have said something I wanted to thank, but they also said something I disagree with, and I don't want my thanks to be taken as an endorsement of the entire post.
          Signature

          Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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          • Profile picture of the author irawr
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            I can see why you'd say that, but there's another side to it. Being a freelancer can be lucrative and rewarding, you just need a clear and fair agreement in place before you start any work.

            Here's an example: I used to ghostwrite a newsletter that that paid me $75 an issue. On average, it took me about 45 minutes to write it. That's $300 a month for one issue per week, and about 3 hours of work. Getting paid $100 an hour for doing something you enjoy is good money in my book. That was a good gig for several years. I wrote it in my spare time and it pretty much paid for my new car.
            Yeah that's not bad for sure.

            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            The point is, if you were or are thinking of freelancing, don't let this thread dissuade you from trying it. Of course, as with anything, it's not for everyone.
            I'm on the other side of it, I hire freelancers regularly. My skill set leans more towards managing assets. So I build professional sites relatively cheap and use them to generate income. Or I get sites setup for the sole purpose of buying advertising to them. It was extremely hard for me to get a start as a completely legitimate IMer. I had some experiences with blackhat techniques that didn't exactly result in what I was hoping for. The numbers were big but short lived. It was really difficult for me to get started as a whitehat (I think it is for most people) but as soon as I had enough revenue to start sourcing work it wasn't hard for me to learn how to multiply my earnings. The biggest barrier was learning how to be trustworthy, since I transitioned from "beating the system."

            I'm also a little bit of a jack of all trades in regards to websites and IM, it would be difficult for me to consistently deliver quality work as a freelancer, and honestly I doubt it would actually increase my income level.

            I'm getting to the point now where I have to make some hard decisions, for example, do I want to invest in an office and hire offline employees. I keep feeling like I need another big project to really take off before I can do that.
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          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            Is it that simple?
            Exactly why I used the word *may* in that post. Of course not every member participates in the thank-me-back-club, and not every thread reflects the behavior. The fact remains that some members do participate, and some do quite often. It's not that hard to see on countless threads...for those that don't see it I have nothing more to tell you --> you either notice that it occurs with some members or you don't.

            It's as simple as that IMO.

            Cheers

            -don
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

              Exactly why I used the word *may*. Of course not every member participates in the thank me back club, and not every thread reflects the behavior.
              -don
              I wonder why several of you are in the "worried about who thanks who club." I thank who I want to thank when I want to thank them and that's pretty much my business. I just thanked a troll, so not all my thanks go to "buddies." Heck, I've even thanked Mike Anthony a couple of times and I doubt that he considers us buddies.

              EDIT: I see you thanked the troll also. You do know that he is cartmanbrah, cartmanbrahs, keyboardwordrria, lloydchristmas, winnertakesitall, theequalizer PeNnYwIsEr, LaNCeARmsROnG all banned within the last several weeks and now sebastianbach. He takes on a new persona every time one is banned. He was "The Coon" the Savior of the Warrior Forum little over a week ago. lol.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                Mike must be feeling pretty good about the fact that he is so loved by so many.
                I am every day. So much so I find it odd that people need to get it online.

                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                I wonder why several of you are in the "worried about who thanks who club." I thank who I want to thank when I want to thank them and that's pretty much my business.
                I don't know about FG but you are flattering yourself a bit there. I noted it as a way of identification. I'm never worried about what some of you think. Thats why you love me so much (but again don't understand why you give or need such validation online).
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  I am every day. So much so I find it odd that people need to get it online.



                  I don't know about FG but you are flattering yourself a bit there. I noted it as a way of identification. I'm never worried about what some of you think. Thats why you love me so much (but again don't understand why you give or need such validation online).
                  You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you ... don't you. Don't you. Don't you. Actually it was about ForumGuru who just chimed in and Discrat who recently ranted about being able to thank people in OT.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you ... don't you. Don't you. Don't you. Actually it was about ForumGuru who just chimed in and Discrat who recently ranted about being able to thank people in OT.

                    Vanity has nothing to do with it. It was a blanket plural for those referencing thanks which I had done along with FG and Discrat. Now if you wish to exclude just me and confess your unrequited (forever) secret crush how was I to know you recently developed taste? Not that you all don't at some point long for the crystals of brown sugar at some point in your life.
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                    • Profile picture of the author discrat
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      Now if you wish to exclude just me and confess your unrequited (forever) secret crush how was I to know you recently developed taste? Not that you all don't at some point long for the crystals of brown sugar at some point in your life.
                      Oh lawd here we go
                      Signature

                      Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      Not that you all don't at some point long for the crystals of brown sugar at some point in your life.
                      Honestly, at my age, I don't think much about white or brown sugar. lol.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        Honestly, at my age, I don't think much about white or brown sugar. lol.
                        "don't think much" is hardly a strong denial.
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              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                I wonder why several of you are in the "worried about who thanks who club." I thank who I want to thank when I want to thank them and that's pretty much my business. I just thanked a troll, so not all my thanks go to "buddies." Heck, I've even thanked Mike Anthony a couple of times and I doubt that he considers us buddies.
                No worries...I think it is slightly detrimental to the forum though. You have just made my point...most of the thanks down here are quite meaningless in the grand scheme of a major marketing forum...except for the fact that the thanks and post totals are public, and used by many infantile noobs to try to "figure things out".

                I have been participating regularly on major forums and boards for the better part of 21 years, and I believe this is the only forum that I can think of that allows people to collect cred in the only part of the forum that you can't discuss business in. In-fact a little used sub-forum where the posts are not even publicly counted.

                Again, allowing public thanks to count when the posts don't is a major error in judgement I believe. If the posts don't count then neither should the thanks on those posts. Some peeps use this part forum to collect thanks the way noobs (and some bogus lingering sad sack vets) post one line sig spam all over the boards.

                I don't care who you do or don't have beef with, and I don't care who you thank and do not thank. I have had a few knock down drag outs with Mr. Anthony, and the last time we had any sort of lengthy "disagreement", I believe, was on the SI thread that has been long since pulled...and you know what, just like most of the other threads that are posted down here ---> the thanks on that thread should not have been counted either. Even though we usually disagree on topics of all sorts, I did thank him on this thread because some of his forum observations were spot on...it's not a new forum concept by any means.

                (Not) To beat a a dead horse again...

                I am not including members that give thanks during legit discussions or debates as part of the club. The club knows who they are...and I think it's a bit obvious, although since many have left or reduced posting substantially, I must admit the club activity has declined somewhat since not much has improved around here since Freelancer took over. Downtime they fixed, but the forum, I believe, has declined at a fairly rapid rate in many ways...a more rapid rate than it was declining before FL took over.

                I hesitate to spell it out -->but here goes anyway. Below are just a few examples of OT club membership.

                Those who hurl insult post after insult post after insult post thanks to those pounding on peeps either new to this section, or that have posted questions they deem dumb and/or irrelevant.

                Those who type the same lame joke and/or quite similar (not so) funny line for the 25th (or 250th) time.

                Those ecology/economy/etc ideologs that throw each other the thanks love, post after post after post. In-fact a couple of members on here thank each other almost every time they post if they are both active...and often it's some three word post that is nothing more than a link to a "wing" site that is nothing more than a veiled attempt at getting a political discussion going that gets the whole club mustered up.

                Obviously members of the thank-me-back club feel quite differently than I do on this subject, but hat's what is so great about opinions and discussion forums...we all can have them as long as we follow the forum rules.

                Much like Dennis does, I believe that the thanks button should be used with a good bit of discretion, but I also believe that some peeps take advantage of the strange system down here. I think a pretty good reason exists on why the posts don't count down here, and if the posts don't count, then neither should the thanks. The math alone (inflated ratio) is reason enough to crapcan the thanks count down here.

                I used to own an active, knock down, drag out political forum and a photoart forum back in the day and I could not fathom not counting posts in an off-topic section and still allowing the thanks on those posts to tally up. If it was not an oversight in the beginning, I believe it has proved to be a mistake.

                Nope, it makes little difference in the grand scheme of things, but then again neither does incessantly pounding noobs and peeps that are not a part of the club. I am not judging anything, I am speaking purely from an admin/mod viewpoint, with my eyes on a seriously declining forum that once was quite valuable to many of all expertise and experience levels.

                All that said...this is WFOT where supposedly anything goes except politics and religion as long as you don't break the forum rules.

                Cheers

                -don
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                  No worries...I think it is slightly detrimental to the forum though. You have just made my point...most of the thanks down here are quite meaningless in the grand scheme of a major marketing forum...except for the fact that the thanks and post totals are public, and used by many infantile noobs to try to "figure things out".

                  Cheers

                  -don
                  They might be meaningless to you, but I enjoy the conversations down under and think we should have the same "rights" to thank or not thank than any of the other forums.

                  I have only been participating in OT since Freelancer took over and things upstairs changed in a way that I didn't want to participate much there any longer. The bulk of my thanks came before Freelancer, when I was quite active upstairs and they came from helping out newbies. The bulk of my posts are also "upstairs." There aren't that many here that have been purely cavedwellers for their entire membership.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                  Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                  I think a pretty good reason exists on why the posts don't count down here, and if the posts don't count, then neither should the thanks.
                  I could agree with that, for the sake of the newbies. Anyone with much experience here knows not to give too much credence to how many thanks a person has.


                  @Suzanne - Edited to add: I could be wrong, but I don't think Don meant he'd like to see it so you couldn't thank people in the OT, just that they shouldn't count on our thank total.
                  Signature

                  Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                  . I have had a few knock down down drag outs with Mr. Anthony and the last time we had any sort of lengthy "disagreement", I believe, was on the SI thread that has been long since pulled..
                  I was looking out for your future Don. The girl was too skinny. You got to think long term. She looked alright now but they look like skeletons as they age with no substance. Now with some pork chops here and there maybe but she was a model too so that wasn't happening.

                  come down to South beach sit on the sand and look around and you'll be saying "you know what ? Mike was right". Got to think disaster preparedness as well. Skinny models are the first to go in a food shortage. You don't want to be a single dad going through an apocalypse.

                  Still you cannot claim our disagreement was anything compared to the dust up you and Frank had a few weeks later....ROFL... that was epic.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    I was looking out for your future Don. The girl was too skinny. You got to think long term. She looked alright now but they look like skeletons as they age with no substance. Now with some pork chops here and there maybe but she was a model too so that wasn't happening.

                    come down to South beach sit on the sand and look around and you'll be saying "you know what ? Mike was right". Got to think disaster preparedness as well. Skinny models are the first to go in a food shortage.

                    Still you cannot claim our disagreement was anything compared to the dust up you and Frank had a few weeks later....ROFL... that was epic.
                    Lol, some relatively valid beauty points...too bad you did not make them all back then or things could have been different with us. Ol' Franfurter and I did have a bit of a slammer, but I must admit, one of my most enjoyable discussions down here was one that I had with Frank that was filled with catfish and African cichlid breeding discussion (and tons of pics from each of us) that was pretty cool.

                    Frank and I have photography, fish breeding, a love of animals, and military experience in common but not much else, me thinks.

                    Cheers

                    -don
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            There's some truth to that. And probably everyone is guilty of that to one degree or another, myself included. It's a proclivity of human nature, I would guess. Once again you've made me stop and think. That's why I like reading your posts, and thanked that one...abrasiveness notwithstanding.
            You are on the way to true enlightenment. The next steps in your journey is realizing others are given to that proclivity more than others and it affects what you consider abrasive. After all does anyone think their passionate defenders are abrasive? Nope. its entirely subjective.
            Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
    Banned
    This thread should be moved upstairs because I've literally never seen a beat-down of this magnitude on any forum. We didn't want this, we wanted peace and love, we called for compassion, understanding and kindness to others. The bullies spat in our faces, evil and hatred so ingrained into them they simply don't know how not to attack others, only how to spew anger and spread their hatred and negativity. How to gang up with other wrongdoers believing they have safety in numbers just like all bullies do. What they didn't count on was MIKE ANTHONY! When all hope was lost, in charged Mike Anthony, a true fearless warrior. Mike has taken these bullies to task and literally destroyed them single handed, their group attack having no effect on him whatsoever. What a masterclass we have witnessed today! I salute you Mike. You Sir are a legend. As for the OP, he will get his thread deleted, as if the bullies will want this to stay up for all to see. Please show your support for Mike Anthony forum, he has shown us today that good cannot be beaten, and that the bullies crumble into dust under logic and scrutiny. BRAVO Mike. I'm going to read through this again, it's just so satisfying, beatdown after beatdown. Dem bullies got owned yo! While warriors like Mike are present, good, kind, nice genuine new members are safe! What a victory. Let this be a warning to you bullies, it is better to be good and kind, than to not! You just got handed Mike Anthony hardcore style! What a guy!
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    • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      This thread should be moved upstairs because I've literally never seen a beat-down of this magnitude on any forum. We didn't want this, we wanted peace and love, we called for compassion, understanding and kindness to others. The bullies spat in our faces, evil and hatred so ingrained into them they simply don't know how not to attack others, only how to spew anger and spread their hatred and negativity. How to gang up with other wrongdoers believing they have safety in numbers just like all bullies do. What they didn't count on was MIKE ANTHONY! When all hope was lost, in charged Mike Anthony, a true fearless warrior. Mike has taken these bullies to task and literally destroyed them single handed, their group attack having no effect on him whatsoever. What a masterclass we have witnessed today! I salute you Mike. You Sir are a legend. As for the OP, he will get his thread deleted, as if the bullies will want this to stay up for all to see. Please show your support for Mike Anthony forum, he has shown us today that good cannot be beaten, and that the bullies crumble into dust under logic and scrutiny. BRAVO Mike. I'm going to read through this again, it's just so satisfying, beatdown after beatdown. Dem bullies got owned yo! While warriors like Mike are present, good, kind, nice genuine new members are safe! What a victory. Let this be a warning to you bullies, it is better to be good and kind, than to not! You just got handed Mike Anthony hardcore style! What a guy!
      Seriously!?
      Signature
      Put MY voice on YOUR video: AwesomeAmericanAudio.com
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

        Seriously!?
        You got to admit ... it's freaking hilarious!
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          You got to admit ... it's freaking hilarious!
          Haha!

          That it is!


          Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
          Banned
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          You got to admit ... it's freaking hilarious!
          I have no idea what you are talking about. I can only assume you have some twisted angle to harm me or damage my stellar reputation that I'm building here. So now beaten, you call me a troll? What do you hope to gain by this. I have called for peace and love from the start, that is not trolling. Now beaten, you try to become the victim, it is you who is the character and let me tell you, your character is flawed! But I still have hope for all of you bullies, I believe in forgiveness and kindness, I only wish the best for you.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

            I have no idea what you are talking about. I can only assume you have some twisted angle to harm me or damage my stellar reputation that I'm building here.
            You've got a reputation all right.

            But I do want to thank you. I feel like I just played a game of CLUE and found the troll with a wrench in the pantry.

            I feel kinda bad for Mike possibly not realizing how he was being used.
            Signature

            "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

              I feel kinda bad for Mike possibly not realizing how he was being used.
              No need for the hanky poor Jill. dab up the tears. Whoever he is or he is not your posts to him not based on him being a banned user are right there still sitting in this thread. If he is who you think he is now your the ones that were used. Your tirades against him were all based on on the substance of his posts and him being new, You can try and walk that back now but it won't work

              and he's far from the first newbie the fraternity has tried to ride rough shod over.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


                and he's far from the first newbie the fraternity has tried to ride rough shod over.
                His behaviors were far from newbie. And if someone else had come in here with guns blazing the same way, I still would have reacted the same.

                Also, you won't find me asking for my threads to be deleted just because I don't like how someone responds.

                I don't have any issues with newbies.

                You'd like to think that some of us feel a sense of entitlement. Actually, it's the people who show up out of the woodwork who think they're entitled who I have an issue with.
                Signature

                "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                  You'd like to think that some of us feel a sense of entitlement. Actually, it's the people who show up out of the woodwork who think they're entitled who I have an issue with.
                  actually I am willing to admit you are not quite as entitled or invested in the sisterhood of the Ya ya as some of your cronies but I hardly see where his first post in this thread were anything approaching entitlement. Whoever he is he was advocating peace.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

        Seriously!?
        Couldn't be.

        No way, I think he's on stronger meds than I am, lol!


        Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      . Let this be a warning to you bullies, it is better to be good and kind, than to not! You just got handed Mike Anthony hardcore style! What a guy!
      Unfortunately you have just sealed your fate. Suzanne alone has clicked the report button like 15 times. Claude another 20
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Mike must be feeling pretty good about the fact that he is so loved by so many. He's loved by cartmanbrah, cartmanbrahs, keyboardwordrria, lloydchristmas,
    winnertakesitall, theequalizer, PeNnYwIsEr, LaNCeARmsROnG, and now

    sebastianbach!

    what happened to The Coon, Sebastian? lol
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  • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
    Banned
    Please stop with the attacks, lies and accusations. You are not the victim here, you are one of the attackers. Please try to see the wrong in what you do, free the love inside you. TRY, you can do it. Same to the others.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      Please stop with the attacks, lies and accusations. You are not the victim here, you are one of the attackers. Please try to see the wrong in what you do, free the love inside you. TRY, you can do it. Same to the others.
      lol ... you never had me fooled for a minute. I was just watching and waiting. I loved how all these people came swarming to the poor little newbie's defense. Nice move that. You're good.
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  • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
    Banned
    Would it help if I post another Michael Jackson Video?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      Would it help if I post another Michael Jackson Video?
      lol. Never thought I'd see the day I thanked a troll. That was hilarious.
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      • Profile picture of the author sebastianbach
        Banned
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        lol. Never thought I'd see the day I thanked a troll. That was good.
        I have no idea what you are talking about. Just another attack maybe to call doubt on my intention and to damage my sterling reputation. When bullies are beaten they call foul as the victims. You are a bully, as are the others. But today, you were actually the victim, the victim of strength, good and love. Take this as a chance to say sorry and to change your ways. As a good person, I believe in forgiveness. I will forgive you all but you need to change and commit to it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      Would it help if I post another Michael Jackson Video?
      You've got a good sense of humor, I'll give you that.
      Signature

      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        You've got a good sense of humor, I'll give you that.
        Don't worry. We'll give him treats and he'll be back for more. lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

        Please stop with the attacks, lies and accusations. You are not the victim here, you are one of the attackers. Please try to see the wrong in what you do, free the love inside you. TRY, you can do it. Same to the others.
        You just can't help yourself, can you?


        ROFLMAO

        LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOL
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        Signature

        "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

          You just can't help yourself, can you?


          ROFLMAO

          LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOL
          LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOL
          LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOL
          LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOL
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          I just had to quote this to savor it.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by sebastianbach View Post

      Would it help if I post another Michael Jackson Video?

      You tell me.

      Here's one dedicated to you.




      Terra
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  • Ooooooh — is that what is goin' on?

    Man, it is like a snail jus' p*ssed in my brain.

    Plus, I am sooooo slow.

    Gotta figure that is a weird kinda hobby.

    I am shorta time right now, duckin' in here on a procrastinatory ticket as I get my sh*t together, an' what I really wanna do is hang out in a bar or take in some TV or knit stoopid hats for alla the birds in the park, but the sands of time are already spoken for, an' I must watch them slip through my fingers as I steel myself for active duty.

    What I do NOT wanna do is offer myself up as a compulsive irritant.

    It is a weird way for mortals to eke out their coils.

    Disturbin'.

    But hey, on the plus side, when I break for lunch later, I got lettuce.

    yy, I know.

    Frickin' lettuce!

    Gotta figure some noob deity took pity on my ass an' shined down upon me from the heavens.

    "Feel the glory of my verdant wrinklies, baby" typea thing.

    I am so excited, I may jus' cup a coupla leaves in my hands like Joe's chimpanzee brain testicles an' give my cheeks a little natural exfoliatory lovin'.

    scrunchy scrunchy scrunchy

    yeah, I want alla the natural juices up against my skin, cleanin' me out' an' de-toxin' me of my inner urinatin' snail.

    That is my dream for my time today.
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by irawr View Post

      That's not how I see it. He lost $40 at the very least.

      My advice was to return the $60. The post is still there. The problem here is that this could snowball easily (it might be already.)

      Edit: Apparently I'm also reading his posts differently. I'm interpreting what he's asking as "I know I don't have to give a refund, but should I do it anyways?" and other people were turning this around and think he's asking "It's okay to keep this right?" Kind of hard to tell since he removed most of his posts but I know when I responded, it seemed pretty clear to me what he was asking. The thread almost immediately turned into an analysis of whether or not he could, I'm pretty sure he was asking what he should do.

      Lets be realistic about this, if his intent was to screw the client over, why did he need to ask here? "OK WF, so I'm about to screw this client over, I got all my T's crossed and my I's dotted right?"

      Seems kinda pointless to me?

      I think he was put into a difficult situation by the client he did not anticipate.

      That's kind of tough don't you think? On one hand you're allowing yourself to be trampled on, on the other, it could hurt you more in the long run.
      Pretty hard to comment on this, since l haven't seen the original post, but from what others have said, seeking money for a thought or concept, is a bit like hiring a graphic artist, setting a price and then only delivering part of it!

      Maybe in some circumstances that might be ok, but not for others.

      I used to do flyers for customers on Fiverr, and more often than not it would take longer than l though, but we agreed on a price, so l completed the project!

      I can also understand the gulls causing a bloodbath on one thread, and flying over to someone new, but l don't think that the circumstances are the same here, least l hope not!

      But if it goes into mindless raving, just ignore them, there is no law here that says that you need to reply, and in most cases there ranting only attracts critizm from other members!

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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Hmmmm,

        After much reading through this thread after my last post, I think I'd like to offer up a vote too.

        I vote that the powers that be start another sub-forum titled, The Things I Wish I Could Change If I Were Only In Charge.

        Then our threads wouldn't have to be derailed by the Off Topic Thanks Police Department, unofficial as they may be. Hahaha!

        Seriously though, I'm trying to figure out why the thanks in the lounge here offend you so. Personally, I think you should give the newbies more credit. Some have intelligence, some don't. Why not let them figure out who knows what they are talking about by the merit of what is posted. If they can't figure that out, then they were doomed to failure anyway.

        It didn't take me long to understand who those people were when I first started here. Testing is an important part of doing business, and I think the newbies need to be very practiced in testing if they are going to succeed.

        I also ponder why you all feel that the number of thanks is some sort of competition? I haven't found anywhere that states what you can and cannot thank, nor the exact content posted which is allowed to be thanked. Have fun putting all of that together. I predict once you set up the standards of thankable posts thanking will become a tedious chore and every body will stop thanking. Just saying is all.


        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
          Banned
          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

          Hmmmm,

          After much reading through this thread after my last post, I think I'd like to offer up a vote too.

          I vote that the powers that be start another sub-forum titled, The Things I Wish I Could Change If I Were Only In Charge.

          Then our threads wouldn't have to be derailed by the Off Topic Thanks Police Department, unofficial as they may be. Hahaha!

          Seriously though, I'm trying to figure out why the thanks in the lounge here offend you so. Personally, I think you should give the newbies more credit. Some have intelligence, some don't. Why not let them figure out who knows what they are talking about by the merit of what is posted. If they can't figure that out, then they were doomed to failure anyway.

          It didn't take me long to understand who those people were when I first started here. Testing is an important part of doing business, and I think the newbies need to be very practiced in testing if they are going to succeed.

          I also ponder why you all feel that the number of thanks is some sort of competition? I haven't found anywhere that states what you can and cannot thank, nor the exact content posted which is allowed to be thanked. Have fun putting all of that together. I predict once you set up the standards of thankable posts thanking will become a tedious chore and every body will stop thanking. Just saying is all.


          Terra
          Speaking for myself...

          I'm totally not offended by the thanks button and I definitely am not lobbying to have the thanks button removed down here.

          What I have proposed is the off-topic thanks should not count towards a member's public total.

          The posts don't count so neither should the thanks because it artificially inflates the ratio of thanks to posts. In other words...some unhelpful non-marketers can run around the main sections with 12 posts and 432 thanks etc. etc. etc. and they may have never received a thanks in any of the business and marketing sections of Warrior Forum. If they continue to post down here they could run up 2000 thanks on those 12 posts to the marketing sections of the forum. They then decide to run a WSO and boom...instant undeserved monster cred for someone that has never been thanked in the main sections of the forum. Totally bogus for all parties involved except for the off topic junkies. Yes, that is an extreme example, but it applies to all sections of the forum in the same way, however so slight.

          It's a flawed policy and the thanks count should have been disabled down here when the post counts were. Someone that has never helped a single soul in the main section of the forum should not be able to appear publicly to have the same thanks cred as someone that was thanked in the main section of the forum where the posts actually count towards your public total since actual marketing discussion is (supposed to be) taking place.

          If you want noobs to "figure it out for themselves" then we might as well do away with post counts and the thanks button altogether. What's the point if the thanks can be artificially inflated down here where you can make it look like you have dozens of thanks per post or more. I am NOT proposing this, I'm just sayin'.

          Nobody that I know of proposed any content thanking regulations, so nobody is going to have any fun "putting that together". Nobody is talking about putting together standards either so no "tedious chores" will be forced upon you. None. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Zero.

          Lol on your thread derailing comments. I can't believe I heard that from you as I thought you were one of those members that did not mind when a thread was taken over by the one line joke patrol and phony insult crews etc. etc. etc. But to slightly take a thread off-topic to talk about something that should have been fixed with the forum years ago is not copacetic. Go figure....

          To be very clear.

          #1 You would still be able to thank whomever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want.

          #2 The thanks will still appear on the thread.

          #3 The only change that would be made is your thanks total will not increase beneath your avatar when you receive a thanks in the off-topic section just like the post count does not increase.


          The only problem I see with the change is the folks that want to see their thanks total increase when they post down here will be opposed to fixing it. I guess those folks that really need an ego boost seeing that thanks to post ratio being artificially built down here will cry foul. It's a bit amusing since most don't seem to mind the posts not counting down here...except for a few noobs of course.

          Not only do I think this will be beneficial to some of the forum rookies, it may actually help curb a bit of the club activity down here. I ain't holding my breath, but you never know.

          Cheers

          -don
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Honestly - who care about who is thanked - or when - or why??? Seriously - is that something anyone spends time worrying about?

            Already in this thread some of us (and I'm not ruling out myself here) have spent more time arguing the OP's cause than HE did...and more posts in defense of a new and rather rude member than that person has spent here himself.

            Here's what I want to know?

            DID the OP refund the money or keep it? If he kept it did he do ANY work for it or just tell the customer deposits are non-refundable??? Since it's been such a big deal over $60, curious to know what his decision was.

            It's HIS choice - always has been. The facts, however, have been flexed quite a bit since the original posts - and edits - and ....
            Signature
            Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
            ***
            One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
            what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              The only "reputation metric" I pay attention to here is the substance of what someone has to say. It's not hard to tell who knows their stuff and who doesn't - who is IN business and who is posing...not hard at all. Also not hard to see who has a balanced view of life - a sense of humor - etc. Most people can't keep up an act for long.

              There are people here I don't much care for - but would not hesitate to buy from. I may not like their viewpoint or attitude - but feel in business they are honest and ethical marketers. There are others here I like personally - and wouldn't buy from.

              I think people choose "points" to target when they start running out of arguments on one topic or another. Yet another long argument about "thanks" and what the forum "should do" isn't going to raise the IQ of this thread.
              Signature
              Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
              ***
              One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
              what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                The only "reputation metric" I pay attention to here is the substance of what someone has to say. It's not hard to tell who knows their stuff and who doesn't - who is IN business and who is posing...not hard at all. Also not hard to see who has a balanced view of life - a sense of humor - etc. Most people can't keep up an act for long.

                There are people here I don't much care for - but would not hesitate to buy from. I may not like their viewpoint or attitude - but feel in business they are honest and ethical marketers. There are others here I like personally - and wouldn't buy from.

                I think people choose "points" to target when they start running out of arguments on one topic or another. Yet another long argument about "thanks" and what the forum "should do" isn't going to raise the IQ of this thread.
                I have never purchased from a person because of the amount of thanks they had. I've purchased, and trusted some because of what they had to say, and if in a WSO, what others had to say about them... and not the shills on the first couple of pages, but the customers throughout the WSO long after the shills have done their job.

                I read the WSO to the end and see how the seller resolves complaints, fixes problems, responds to customers. All that means a great deal more than how many times someone has been thanked.
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            Speaking for myself...

            I'm totally not offended by the thanks button and I definitely am not lobbying to have the thanks removed down here.

            What I have proposed is the off-topic thanks should not count towards a member's public total.
            Well, the OT isn't a private forum and being a member of one of the private forums here, I can assure you those thanks count in the total tally of thanks as well.

            Perhaps there should be a tally of public thanks and another for private thanks and another for WSO thanks and another for OT thanks?


            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            The posts don't count so neither should the thanks because it artificially inflates the ratio of thanks to posts. In other words...some unhelpful non-marketers can run around the main section with 12 posts and 432 thanks etc. etc. etc. and they may have never received a thanks in any of the business and marketing sections of Warrior Forum. If they continue to post down here they could run up 2000 thanks on those 12 posts to the marketing sections of the forum. They then decide to run a WSO and boom...instant undeserved monster cred for someone that has never been thanked in the main sections of the forum. Totally bogus for all parties involved except for the off topic junkies. Yes, that is an extreme example, but it applies to all sections of the forum in the same way, however so slight.

            It's a flawed policy and the thanks count should have been disabled down here when the post counts were. Someone that has never helped a single soul in the main section of the forum should not be able to appear publicly to have the same thanks cred as someone that was thanked in the main section of the forum where the posts actually count towards your public total since actual marketing discussion is (supposed to be) taking place...



            LoL...on your thread derailing comments. I can't believe I heard that from you as I thought you were one of those members that did not mind when a thread was taken over by the one line joke patrol and phony insult crews etc. etc. etc. But to slightly take a thread off-topic to talk about something that should have been fixed with the forum years ago is not copacetic. Go figure....
            Seriously? Well, see what happens when you get to thinking?



            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            ...The only problem I see with the change is the folks that want to see their thanks total increase when they post down here will be opposed to fixing it. I guess those folks that really need an ego boost seeing that thanks to post ratio being artificially built down here will cry foul. It's a bit amusing since most don't seem to mind the posts not counting down here...except for a few noobs of course.

            Not only do I think this will be beneficial to some of the forum rookies, it may actually help curb a bit of the club activity down here. I ain't holding my breath, but you never know.

            Cheers

            -don
            Hahahaha!

            Ok, let's talk science and discover the more probable answer to why some folks may be opposed to the removal of the OT thanks tally.


            The answer is dopamine and the dreadful dopamine loops!

            Psychologists have said that getting likes, thumbs ups, thanks, etc. releases dopamine and opiate levels within us.

            Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that helps control the brain's reward and pleasure centers. Dopamine also helps regulate movement and emotional responses, and it enables us not only to see rewards, but to take action to move toward them.

            Furthermore, Susan Weinschenk Ph.D. explains to us about pleasure vs. seeking.

            You may have heard that dopamine controls the "pleasure" systems of the brain: that dopamine makes you feel enjoyment, pleasure, and therefore motivates you to seek out certain behaviors, such as food, sex, and drugs. Recent research is changing this view. Instead of dopamine causing you to experience pleasure, the latest research shows that dopamine causes seeking behavior. Dopamine causes you to want, desire, seek out, and search. It increases your general level of arousal and your goal-directed behavior. From an evolutionary stand-point this is critical. The dopamine seeking system keeps you motivated to move through your world, learn, and survive. It's not just about physical needs such as food, or sex, but also about abstract concepts. Dopamine makes you curious about ideas and fuels your searching for information. Research shows that it is the opioid system (separate from dopamine) that makes us feel pleasure.
            As well as wanting vs. liking.

            According to researcher Kent Berridge, these two systems, the "wanting" (dopamine) and the "liking" (opioid) are complementary. The wanting system propels you to action and the liking system makes you feel satisfied and therefore pause your seeking. If your seeking isn't turned off at least for a little while, then you start to run in an endless loop. The dopamine system is stronger than the opioid system. You tend to seek more than you are satisfied.
            So you see, if they don't see their thanks tallied, they'll begin seeking more and more thanks for the pleasure it gives them and get caught in that dopamine loop. And if you think this crowd or team or whatever you call it are bad now with their "thanks seeking posts", just wait until the thanks don't count and they can't receive their rush that's the equivalent of having sex. Trust me, you don't want to go there!


            Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post


              just wait until the thanks don't count and they can't receive their rush that's the equivalent of having sex.
              You are doing it wrong!!
              Signature

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            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
              Banned
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              Dopamine
              Good ol' dopamine...

              I have been informally studying the brain (neurotransmitter activity mostly) on and off since about 1978 so I am somewhat familiar with dopamine levels, serotonin, epinephrine, oxytosin, and several other Monoamines, Peptides, hormones, receptors etc.

              In my first life back in the 70-80's I studied electronics and nuclear power so the way electronic circuits connect and fire in the brain is quite amazing and interesting to me.

              Couple that with a desire to understand certain mental illnesses (bioplar, schiz etc.) and I became more than just slightly interested in what is going on in the brain. Everything from baseline levels, legal herbs and medicines that are found around the world, prescription drugs that are usually prescribed, proper and improper diagnoses, to reading Freud's Cocaine Papers at about age 18. Now that guy had some receptors firing! lol

              That said, personally, I received all the online dopamine boost I needed back in 2004 when my first web photo gallery page hit 10 million actual public page views and several thousand comments.

              As far as the private forum goes...as long as the posts count then I don't have an issue with the thanks counting too. I suppose you paid to play in the private forum as well, not that it means much, but it may mean something.

              Again, it's the ratio inflation down here that I would like to see corrected...and yes, I realize the WSO thread thanks count, but the posts do not. IMO that is slightly different because to post on a thread up there you either need to have purchased a WSO, asked a question about a WSO, left a review on a WSO, or sold a WSO.

              Ok, then.

              So what is the top three legal dopamine boosters that you know of? Not counting social media love, artificial post ratio inflation and sex, I mean.

              Cheers

              -don

              Note: Edited my WSO speaks slightly.
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                Good ol' dopamine...

                I have been informally studying the brain (neurotransmitter activity mostly) on and off since about 1978 so I am somewhat familiar with dopamine levels, epinephrine, oxytosin, and several other Monoamines, Peptides, hormones, receptors etc.

                In my first life back in the 70-80's I studied electronics and nuclear power so the way electronic circuits connect and fire in the brain is quite amazing and interesting to me.

                Couple that with a desire to understand certain mental illnesses (bioplar, schiz etc.) and I became more than just slightly interested in what is going on in the brain. Everything from baseline levels, legal herbs and medicines that are found around the world, prescription drugs that are usually prescribed, proper and improper diagnoses, to reading Freud's Cocaine Papers at about age 18. Now that guy had some receptors firing! lol

                That said, personally, I received all the online dopamine boost I needed back in 2001 when my first web photo gallery page hit 10 million actual public page views and several thousand comments.

                As far as the private forum goes...as long as the posts count then I don't have an issue with the thanks counting too. I suppose you paid to play in the private forum as well, not that it means much, but it may mean something.

                Again, it's the ratio inflation down here that I would like to see corrected...and yes, I realize the WSO thread thanks count, but the posts do not. IMO that is slightly different because to receive a thanks there you either need to have purchased a WSO, asked a question about a WSO, left a review on a WSO, or sold a WSO.

                Ok, then.

                So what is the top three legal dopamine booster that you know of? Not counting social media love, artificial post ratio inflation and sex, I mean.
                Cheers

                -don
                For me personally, it's sunbathing, dancing, and total body massage therapy.

                I have all seasons accounted for, lol! In the summer, I sunbathe and in the winter, I get total body massages. The dancing I do all of the time, so every season is covered, haha!

                What about you?


                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  For me personally, it's sunbathing, dancing, and total body massage therapy.

                  I have all seasons accounted for, lol! In the summer, I sunbathe and in the winter, I get total body massages. The dancing I do all of the time, so every season is covered, haha!

                  What about you?
                  For me, it's reading posts like these.

                  (Sorry, I just could not resist!)
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                  Put MY voice on YOUR video: AwesomeAmericanAudio.com
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                • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  For me personally, it's sunbathing, dancing, and total body massage therapy.

                  I have all seasons accounted for, lol! In the summer, I sunbathe and in the winter, I get total body massages. The dancing I do all of the time, so every season is covered, haha!

                  What about you?


                  Terra
                  Cool.

                  For me the top non-herbals would probably include music, making images and art, sports, and certain policy discussions.

                  Cheers

                  -don
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                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                    Cool.

                    For me the top four non-herbals would probably include music, making images and art, sports, and certain policy discussions.

                    Cheers

                    -don
                    Non herbals, lol!

                    Yeah, I love music thus the spontaneous outbreak of dancing.


                    Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Pretty hard to comment on this, since l haven't seen the original post, but from what others have said, seeking money for a thought or concept,
        It wasn't offering money for a thought. The buyer wanted a logo done. The OP isn't a consultant. Consultants get money for thoughts. He said that he "thought" about the project for an hour, so he should keep the deposit. The buyer actually got nothing ... zilch. The thought was never turned into a concept, one that the buyer could see and verify. For all we know, he thought about a porn flick.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

          Here's a snap from my latest holiday . . .


          Going to send you some sunscreen - you're burning just a tad...
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          "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            LOlL Jill!

            He is the devil after all and I think the blazing sun on a tropical beach with the aromatic sea breezes is actually a reprieve from where he normally abodes.


            Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              It wasn't offering money for a thought. The buyer wanted a logo done. The OP isn't a consultant. Consultants get money for thoughts. He said that he "thought" about the project for an hour, so he should keep the deposit. The buyer actually got nothing ... zilch. The thought was never turned into a concept, one that the buyer could see and verify. For all we know, he thought about a porn flick.
              Ok, obviously not ok!

              Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

              Going to send you some sunscreen - you're burning just a tad...
              Yes, Slip, Slop, Slop, Slop, l think!

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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Pretty hard to comment on this, since l haven't seen the original post, but from what others have said, seeking money for a thought or concept, is a bit like hiring a graphic artist, setting a price and then only delivering part of it!
        You've bought into Suzanne's straw. That wasn't the situation. The agreed on time table was within 10 days. The client not the OP cancelled the deliverables within that time. Its like hiring a lawyer and then not needing him/her again. Its really up to the discretion of the lawyer.

        In this case though if the OP wasn't going to give a refund he should have delivered the logo even after the client tried to back out.. the argument that the Op breached any professionalism by not putting anything down on paper yet is just nonsense. that can only be claimed if HE missed the agreed on time table which we will never know because the CLIENT not the OP backed out.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          It wasn't offering money for a thought. The buyer wanted a logo done. The OP isn't a consultant. Consultants get money for thoughts. He said that he "thought" about the project for an hour, so he should keep the deposit. The buyer actually got nothing ... zilch. The thought was never turned into a concept, one that the buyer could see and verify. For all we know, he thought about a porn flick.
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          You've bought into Suzanne's straw. That wasn't the situation. The agreed on time table was within 10 days. The client not the OP cancelled the deliverables within that time. Its like hiring a lawyer and then not needing him/her again. Its really up to the discretion of the lawyer.

          In this case though if the OP wasn't going to give a refund he should have delivered the logo even after the client tried to back out.. the argument that the Op breached any professionalism by not putting anything down on paper yet is just nonsense. that can only be claimed if HE missed the agreed on time table which we will never know because the CLIENT not the OP backed out.

          The agreed upon time frame was 7 to 10 days. Day 7 the client asked for a refund of her $60.00
          deposit for a $100.00 job. Nothing tangible was created, but OP said he had thought about the logo
          for about one hour. That's all OP stated about the situation, and he asked if he should refund or
          keep the $60 deposit.
          Signature

          "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            You've bought into Suzanne's straw. That wasn't the situation. The agreed on time table was within 10 days. The client not the OP cancelled the deliverables within that time. Its like hiring a lawyer and then not needing him/her again. Its really up to the discretion of the lawyer.

            In this case though if the OP wasn't going to give a refund he should have delivered the logo even after the client tried to back out.. the argument that the Op breached any professionalism by not putting anything down on paper yet is just nonsense. that can only be claimed if HE missed the agreed on time table which we will never know because the CLIENT not the OP backed out.
            Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

            The agreed upon time frame was 7 to 10 days. Day 7 the client asked for a refund of her $60.00
            deposit for a $100.00 job. Nothing tangible was created, but OP said he had thought about the logo
            for about one hour. That's all OP stated about the situation, and he asked if he should refund or
            keep the $60 deposit.
            Dammit, maybe we shouldn't abolish all lawyers then?

            And l wasn't saying that anything dishonest was taking place, only that groan,....ok, lawyers, lawyers, (flicking through the yellow pages).

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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          You've bought into Suzanne's straw. That wasn't the situation. The agreed on time table was within 10 days. The client not the OP cancelled the deliverables within that time. Its like hiring a lawyer and then not needing him/her again. Its really up to the discretion of the lawyer.

          In this case though if the OP wasn't going to give a refund he should have delivered the logo even after the client tried to back out.. the argument that the Op breached any professionalism by not putting anything down on paper yet is just nonsense. that can only be claimed if HE missed the agreed on time table which we will never know because the CLIENT not the OP backed out.
          There were no deliverables to cancel. That was obvious to the client on Day 7 so the client fired the OP, and with good reason. The client will be a much smarter client now though and will have a timetable set up for deliverables and no deliverables ... no moola. He won't get conned again. They never do. They get educated by designers like this real quick.

          I'll bet the OP never even contacted the client during those 7 days. After working for clients for years, every single one of my projects would have gone south had I not communicated with the client by 7 days in the project. Just a friendly email to let them know how things are going. This project going bad is entirely the fault of the designer.

          Sure, he probably didn't say I will keep in touch, (I'm sure you'll say), so he didn't have to keep in touch. He didn't say you'll have your concepts by Day 5, so he's not obligated to give this client a thing, because we all absolutely know that the OP had a thought ... and a dang good thought too and he was going to someday take his thumb out of his arse and turn that dang good thought into a concept for this client.

          I'm sorry. Bad business practices all around. I doubt he makes much doing this. He's not going to get a lot of referral business, like I did. That's for sure.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            There were no deliverables to cancel. That was obvious to the client on Day 7 so the client fired the OP, and with good reason.
            Yawn Suzanne. we have been back and forth on this and you resort to mind reading the client's mind constantly.

            Fact (as we have been told them - OP is the only one with direct knowledge): the terms were 7-10 days
            Fact: The time agreement had not been breached on day 7
            Fact: The client was the one that called a halt to future deliverables while still within the agreed period (would is not an argument based on reality)

            You will sing till the cows come home you know what would have been but on logical grounds its all just empty. For all we know day eight could have had a logo the client loved and still within the time given with time for revision

            I'm sorry. Bad business practices all around. I doubt he makes much doing this. He's not going to get a lot of referral business, like I did. That's for sure.
            Yes I know. This all about chest pushing out at who is or was the better creative. Problem is There are top creatives so busy and in demand that they wouldn't deliver a logo in 7 days either..

            Still as I have said and will leave off discussing this further the Op should have just continued in the agreed on time period if he didn't wish to give a refund. If the client refused to continue then its then his fair call to refund or hold for work done (which includes and will forever include mental creative work).
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Yawn Suzanne. we have been back and forth on this and you resort to mind reading the client's mind constantly.
              It's called experience.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                I think he was surprised we caught on so fast this time - when you are posting from the same place as the previous half dozen trolls with the same attitude...some of us notice. He didn't think to use a proxy early on - so easy to track him.

                Guess no matter how big a troll you are - there's always someone to take your side....bless him. I liked cartmanbrah better - he was funnier.
                Signature
                Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
                ***
                One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
                what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  I think he was surprised we caught on so fast this time - when you are posting from the same place as the previous half dozen trolls with the same attitude...some of us notice. He didn't think to use a proxy early on - so easy to track him.

                  Guess no matter how big a troll you are - there's always someone to take your side....bless him. I liked cartmanbrah better - he was funnier.
                  He reverted back to the cartmanbrah character in his Valentine thread. I think that one is his own personal favorite also, but he did have a lot of fun in this thread as the good, loving, peaceloving beaten down newbie. lol.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                It's called experience.
                Nope its called presumption based on arrogance that your experience can instruct you of the details between two human beings you do not know or have any direct knowledge about.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  Nope its called presumption based on arrogance that your experience can instruct you of the details between two human beings you do not know or have any direct knowledge about.
                  Whatever. There's 3,000 views to this thread alone and probably a couple thousand more to the original. The prospective "clients" can make their own decision on whether or not he has sound business practices. I'm done relaying my experience on the matter.
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                • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  Nope its called presumption based on arrogance that your experience can instruct you of the details between two human beings you do not know or have any direct knowledge about.
                  Unless you have more info from OP, you're presuming also. We do not know if OP left out client's demand for drafts, if there was a schedule of deliverables such as three mock ups by 7 days and completion by day 10....
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                  "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                    Unless you have more info from OP, you're presuming also...
                    Yawn....I am "presuming" what was said. If thats presuming to you then you can write the publishing houses of the world's dictionaries and have them change the meaning. talk about convoluted. Here's presumption

                    if there was a schedule of deliverables such as three mock ups by 7 days and completion by day 10....
                    Inventing a whole other deadline setup than anything the OP said. Take a bow. You nailed presumption.
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                    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                      Unless you have more info from OP, you're presuming also. We do not know if OP left out client's demand for drafts, if there was a schedule of deliverables such as three mock ups by 7 days and completion by day 10....
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      Yawn....I am "presuming" what was said. If thats presuming to you then you can write the publishing houses of the world's dictionaries and have them change the meaning. talk about convoluted. Here's presumption



                      Inventing a whole other deadline setup than anything the OP said. Take a bow. You nailed presumption.
                      Cutting out my full quote is not appreciated and does not make you look "right". Yawn.
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                      "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                        Cutting out my full quote is not appreciated and does not make you look "right". Yawn.
                        desperately silly point. What? are we to all do full quotes of posts on the same page with the vacant idea that anyone is coming into this thread not reading even the few the posts before them?

                        full quote changes nothing. Your "logic" was dispensed with and you are just sore.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
                    Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                    Unless you have more info from OP, you're presuming also. We do not know if OP left out client's demand for drafts, if there was a schedule of deliverables such as three mock ups by 7 days and completion by day 10....

                    Thank you Dan!

                    Finally! I read the original thread (when it was sorta new), and I never saw the OP say WHY client wanted a refund. Hell, her cat could have needed to be declaude <-- see what I did there?

                    Anyhow, I have no dog in this fight, but I agree that the OP is one to bring up similar type posts. NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

                    I think I'm confused as well. To my knowledge, Tim posted that she asked for a refund on day 7. No explanation as to why. Then, he asks if she is entitled to one. Again, no mention of refund policy in place, contract terms, or what was supposed to happen on what day and where!

                    Tim, if you're still reading----- good Lord man! Was the $60 dollar principle worth all of this? Handling this, in private, between you and your customer, would have been better. But, it's out here now.

                    I spend a lot of time "thinking" about my clients. Is that billable hours? Perhaps, do I charge them for it? Nope. Do you have a right to? Sure, if you told her that, or had it in writing.

                    I think the decision was yours to own Tim. Own it. But, <-- you knew that was coming, I hope... Don't ask for OPINIONS if you're not able <-- read that word again, to handle them. Opinions Tim. No one here can tell you right from wrong about YOUR business practices. No one.

                    ~ Theresa
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post


                      I spend a lot of time "thinking" about my clients. Is that billable hours? Perhaps, do I charge them for it? Nope.
                      Thing is that doesn't make much sense in the context of the job. doing a logo is 90%+ creative thinking.
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                      • Profile picture of the author irawr
                        Banned
                        Great this thread is still going, I need 9 logos done (all separate brands), anybody got any recommendations?
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by irawr View Post

                          Great this thread is still going, I need 9 logos done (all separate brands), anybody got any recommendations?
                          Yeah. Run like the wind.
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                          • Profile picture of the author irawr
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            Yeah. Run like the wind.
                            Alright, Fiverr it is then.
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                            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                              Originally Posted by irawr View Post

                              Alright, Fiverr it is then.
                              At least you know what to have in the agreements.
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                              "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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                        • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
                          Originally Posted by irawr View Post

                          Great this thread is still going, I need 9 logos done (all separate brands), anybody got any recommendations?
                          If you're serious, here's an artist who did a few for me, around $30 each. I was very happy with her ability to "get inside my head". She'd probably give you a quantity discount. Tell her I sent you:
                          Nisha Bhakare on Upwork
                          Signature
                          Put MY voice on YOUR video: AwesomeAmericanAudio.com
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                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                            Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

                            If you're serious, here's an artist who did a few for me, around $30 each. I was very happy with her ability to "get inside my head". She'd probably give you a quantity discount. Tell her I sent you:
                            Nisha Bhakare on Upwork

                            I don't know if he is but I can think of a least four we are going to need done and will consider her. No discount though. $30 is already waaay low for good work
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                          • Profile picture of the author irawr
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

                            If you're serious, here's an artist who did a few for me, around $30 each. I was very happy with her ability to "get inside my head". She'd probably give you a quantity discount. Tell her I sent you:
                            Nisha Bhakare on Upwork
                            I got my logos done already sorry.

                            Still need about 2400 articles written though.
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                    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                      Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

                      Thank you Dan!

                      Finally! I read the original thread (when it was sorta new), and I never saw the OP say WHY client wanted a refund. Hell, her cat could have needed to be declaude <-- see what I did there?

                      Anyhow, I have no dog in this fight, but I agree that the OP is one to bring up similar type posts. NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

                      I think I'm confused as well. To my knowledge, Tim posted that she asked for a refund on day 7. No explanation as to why. Then, he asks if she is entitled to one. Again, no mention of refund policy in place, contract terms, or what was supposed to happen on what day and where!

                      Tim, if you're still reading----- good Lord man! Was the $60 dollar principle worth all of this? Handling this, in private, between you and your customer, would have been better. But, it's out here now.

                      I spend a lot of time "thinking" about my clients. Is that billable hours? Perhaps, do I charge them for it? Nope. Do you have a right to? Sure, if you told her that, or had it in writing.

                      I think the decision was yours to own Tim. Own it. But, <-- you knew that was coming, I hope... Don't ask for OPINIONS if you're not able <-- read that word again, to handle them. Opinions Tim. No one here can tell you right from wrong about YOUR business practices. No one.

                      ~ Theresa
                      Yep, no explanation as to why she wanted a refund on day 7. Having purchased and sold services,
                      I'm very alarmed when work does not seem to be progressing well, and I get alarmed when pay
                      is not progressing well if I've done the work well.

                      So much can be done by just talking and being reasonable. And being careful who you do business
                      with.

                      I used to administer civil disputes that were resolved through arbitration or mediation rather than litigation. Commercial construction cases were the largest portion of our caseload. Hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in dispute.

                      We had a new arbitrator sit on one case and decide not to do it again. He was a retired general contractor. In over thirty years of building commercial buildings, he never had a dispute he could not resolve by sitting down and talking. He said that the antics of both owners and both side's attorneys made him sick with disgust.

                      As for being careful about who you do business with, we had one case that was in abeyance with us for years while they litigated. I think it was about $7000 in commercial photography and printing work. One side was someone not to business with. He was wealthy and known to sue people dry just because he has the money and a very vindictive personality. This time though, he met his match in someone who had the financial wherewithal to stand up to him. Sad waste.
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                      "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    The thanks issue is pretty obvious to me. Its the only reputation metric this board has. On an internet marketing board people do look to it as an indicator of experience and knowledge in IM not shooting the breeze and telling jokes
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  • It is weird, but I am sure Rihanna sings

    BANANA,
    FORCE THEM IN

    on What's My Name?

    So, yeah, that is my dopesy ticket.
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

    Non herbals, lol!
    Legal...legal, legal...think legal! And no, pot is not legal in my state! lol

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      Legal...legal, legal...think legal! And no, pot is not legal in my state! lol

      -don
      Mine either, haha!

      So eating is also one of yours. For me, eating Dove's chocolate is right up there. But not too much of it. It's not good for the girlie figure.


      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Mine either, haha!

        So eating is also one of yours. For me, eating Dove's chocolate is right up there. But not too much of it. It's not good for the girlie figure.


        Terra
        Oh yeah, good food! That's a given!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    To clarify my earlier info on WSOs, anyone can thank anybody in the WSO section. I know the system has been abused by the WSO cartels that lay down thanks cover to shoddy creators to help increase product sales, service sales, and member cred no matter if they have tried the product or not. It's a you scratch my back, I scratch your back environment up there on many threads.

    I realize the posts are probably not counted because some sellers could rack up hundreds of posts on a thread using just two words, and those two words are --> thank you.

    Nothing much is perfect, we all know that.

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Jeez Luise Mike!

      I had a temporary lapse of judgement and decided to take you off my ignore list and the first post I see of your is telling me "I'm not it doing right."

      So it went back to...




      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Jeez Luise Mike!

        I had a temporary lapse of judgement and decided to take you off my ignore list and the first post I see of your is telling me "I'm not it doing right."

        Hey if you are comparing clicking a thank button on WF to sex then yep you are doing one wrong or the other differently than we all do

        as for your ignore list....lol...I'm always amazed at how some people think that matters to anyone else.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          I'm always amazed at how some people think that matters to anyone else.
          I'm equally amazed that others give a damn about who thanks who and what forums should count or not count.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            I'm equally amazed that others give a damn about who thanks who and what forums should count or not count.
            that makes a lot of sense to protect newbies. The claim you don't go by thanks as a form of reputation in no way shape or form invalidates the fact that many do.

            Makes perfect sense on a business forum that rep should be earned by business related help not telling jokes. On the other hand Terra's ignore list? Means nothing to any one but her (so yeah pretty delusional to think it matters to me to tell me about it)
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              that makes a lot of sense to protect newbies. The claim you don't go by thanks as a form of reputation in no way shape or form invalidates the fact that many do.

              Makes perfect sense on a business forum that rep should be earned by business related help not telling jokes.
              Pure BS ... protect newbies from "thanks" lol. That's a good one. As I said, the majority of my thanks were given upstairs, and the same with many off topics participants. We only started living in a cave, with a couple of exceptions, when the upstairs turned to shit.

              We get more and more newbies who come down here now and ask for business advice. Why? Because they get nothing but nonsense from the droves of spammers upstairs.

              But when those same spammers and bullshit artists upstairs get thanks, and they do, that's like totally legit ... right? Sure it is.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                Pure BS ... protect newbies from "thanks" lol. That's a good one. As I said, the majority of my thanks were given upstairs, and the same with many off topics participants. We only started living in a cave, with a couple of exceptions, when the upstairs turned to shit.
                So emotional. Who said anything about you? The subject of thanks is being discussed not you or your thanks in particular. At least we know what is BS to you - whatever you claim and not what you can logically answer. A new person comes to these boards and sees someone talking about marketing. He doesn't know enough to determine whats what so what do some do?....see how long the poster has been here and how many times people have considered his posts valuable enough to post.

                On other forums they actually call that kind of system - Reputation.

                This is pretty obvious stuff. You just make yourself look foolish denying it.

                We get more and more newbies who come down here now and ask for business advice. Why? Because they get nothing but nonsense from the droves of spammers upstairs.
                You are off in lala land. down here has no great business discussions you just want to say it but its not reality. Go upstairs and there are still almost entirely business discussions. Most suck yes but lets face it this kind of IM that WF is into always has sucked. yes its degraded but it never was this great main line business spot to begin with.

                But when those same spammers and bullshit artists upstairs get thanks, and they do, that's like totally legit ... right? Sure it is.
                they get banned and the word Banned overrides everything else. Captain obvious.

                But ahem.....if thanks is so inconsequential then what are you getting so upset over? If theres even one person that might be misled by it and think its a reputation factor and its so unimportant to you then why are you all upset?

                Getting all upset because someone is talking about taking your blankie you say is unimportant to you tells a story different than what you're claiming.
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                • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  But ahem.....if thanks is so inconsequential then what are you getting so upset over?
                  This is what I have been asking myself since last night --> I guess it had to be said and you said it. Bravo.

                  Cheers

                  -don
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  So emotional. Who said anything about you? The subject of thanks is being discussed not you or your thanks in particular. At least we know what is BS to you - whatever you claim and not what you can logically answer. A new person comes to these boards and sees someone talking about marketing. He doesn't know enough to determine whats what so what do some do?....see how long the poster has been here and how many times people have considered his posts valuable enough to post.

                  On other forums they actually call that kind of system - Reputation.

                  This is pretty obvious stuff. You just make yourself look foolish denying it.

                  You are off in lala land. down here has no great business discussions you just want to say it but its not reality. Go upstairs and there are still almost entirely business discussions. Most suck yes but lets face it this kind of IM that WF is into always has sucked. yes its degraded but it never was this great main line business spot to begin with.



                  they get banned and the word Banned overrides everything else. Captain obvious.

                  But ahem.....if thanks is so inconsequential then what are you getting so upset over? If theres even one person that might be misled by it and think its a reputation factor and its so unimportant to you then why are you all upset?

                  Getting all upset because someone is talking about taking your blankie you say is unimportant to you tells a story different than what you're claiming.
                  The issue is whether or not those of us in OT have the same rights as any other forum on this site and it is also ... you are insinuating that the majority of our thanks have been given for jokes, which simply isn't true. The majority of thanks were given upstairs. There aren't many down here who haven't been very active upstairs and quite a few still are. Claude and Jason, both active in Offline. Kay, I see her regularly in Main and other forums. Me ... ecommerce, plus random site flipping posts that catch my attention. Yukon, still active in SEO, as you well know. Bizgrower frequently seen upstairs. Off the top of my head, I can think of two who don't get out of the basement, Hey Sal and Thom, both of which don't even post much at all.

                  Emotional. lol. Not in the least bit. Who knows ... sounds a lot of "thanks envy" to me.

                  Now I'll do a cartmanbrah ....

                  What they didn't count on was MIKE ANTHONY! When all hope was lost, in charged Mike Anthony, a true fearless warrior. What a masterclass we have witnessed today! I salute you Mike. You Sir are a legend. Please show your support for Mike Anthony forum. BRAVO Mike. You just got handed Mike Anthony hardcore style! What a guy!

                  Added: I know it's in you bro. You can do it. Just get out of the basement and soar like the eagle you are and people will see you for the shining star we all admire, and bestow their thanks upon you. You're the man. Don't ever forget it. Now get along and kill em, bro.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    The issue is whether or not those of us in OT have the same rights as any other forum on this site and it is also ... you are insinuating that the majority of our thanks have been given for jokes, which simply isn't true.
                    Go back and read my posts. I have insinuated no such thing. Maybe Don did but i didn't see it. saying thank reputation should be based on marketing advice and not on jokes is not saying that all of anyone thanks were built on jokes alone or jokes themajority. Its saying that thanks for jokes shouldn't be in there at all

                    The majority of thanks were given upstairs . There aren't many down here who haven't been very active upstairs and quite a few still are. Claude and Jason, both active in Offline. Kay, I see her regularly in Main and other forums. Me ... ecommerce, plus random site flipping posts that catch my attention . Yukon, still active in SEO, as you well know.
                    and who pray tell said otherwise? not me. Yep Kay has a ton of thanks upstairs and was very active upstairs in former yeas, You as well, Claude 's built a great rep in the offline section. Are there people In my years here I almost never saw upstairs ...yep. I haven't been following everything you and don have been discussing but you can't get me on claiming all thanks of you or anyone you mentioned was all on jokes because I stated no such thing. To be honest though I rarely saw bizgrower above ground in my years here.

                    Who knows ... sounds a lot of "thanks envy" to me.
                    well if you want to be logical (which I am not sure you wish to be) then you will have to make up your mind as to which you are going to go with because saying you think it is inconsequential and then stating you think it something someone would have reason to envy is irrational. I am fine with my thank count btw . I hardly thing people differentiate once they get int the thousands and considering how much I am loved in the OT its definitely not strongly influenced by activities down under
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      well if you want to be logical (which I am not sure you wish to be) then you will have to make up your mind as to which you are going to go with because saying you think it is inconsequential and then stating you think it something someone would have reason to envy is irrational
                      My point is simple. I don't think you or any other mere member has the power to redefine what thanks should or shouldn't be, and for which forums they should or should not count.

                      It seems from your comments and Don's too, that there is irritation that there is a group or groups of people who seem to like each other and exchange thanks regularly. That was, and is also true upstairs. It isn't exclusive to the OT forum. In fact, it used to be a lot more common upstairs when people actually knew each other.

                      It might be an IM forum (a mere ghost of it's former self), but advice that people value is given in all of the forums, including OT. Each section of this site has it's own particular culture and value.
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                      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        That was, and is also true upstairs. It isn't exclusive to the OT forum. In fact, it used to be a lot more common upstairs when people actually knew each other.
                        The difference is those are marketing discussions, and those posts actually count towards your public tally. We want more the credibility in the thanks system, not less. What we are proposing would do just that...it would help correct the bogus ratios to the benefit of rooks and some others too.

                        It might be an IM forum (a mere ghost of it's former self), but advice that people value is given in all of the forums, including OT. Each section of this site has it's own particular culture and value.
                        Yeah, and the internet marketing value of the basement is almost nill...and your posts down here don't count either.

                        Again, you still be able to thank people and the thanks will be visible on the thread...and....wait for it.... you will still be a forum GODDESS of THANKS!!!

                        Whoo hooo!

                        Thanks

                        -don
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                          Yeah, and the internet marketing value of the basement is almost nill.

                          Thanks
                          -don
                          One could say that the Internet Marketing value of the upstairs is almost nil as well.
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                          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            One could say that the Internet Marketing value of the upstairs is almost nil as well.
                            You won't get much argument form me on that, I guess for some they are learning a lotta crap. Emphasis on crap. All I know is I have quit spending time in the review section because it has declined from being a poor example of a review forum, to a steamy pile.

                            Cheers

                            -don
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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                              You won't get much argument form me on that, I guess for some they are learning a lotta crap. Emphasis on crap. All I know is I have quit spending time in the review section because it has declined from being a poor example of a review forum, to a steamy pile.

                              Cheers

                              -don
                              I did just check out under one avatar and noticed the skewed numbers, which seem to be a direct result of posts not counting down here. Had the posts here been counted, the concentration of thanks wouldn't look so ridiculous.
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                              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                I did just check out under one avatar and noticed the skewed numbers, which seem to be a direct result of posts not counting down here.
                                That's what I have been talking about. They almost always are.

                                People took advantage of OT to rack up their post counts, and that's why posts don't count down here. That's also exactly why the thanks should not count either...on-top that, now we have the fake cred skew created by not removing them from the tally when the posts were removed long ago.

                                Cheers

                                -don
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                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                                  That's what I have been talking about. They almost always are.

                                  People took advantage of OT to rack up their post counts, and that's why posts don't count down here. That's also exactly why the thanks should not count either...on-top that, now we have the fake cred skew created by not removing them from the tally when the posts were removed long ago.

                                  Cheers

                                  -don
                                  Well, that's odd to go to OT to raise post count, as no one but the basement dwellers will see the posts (and your signature if you have one), and you don't build a business reputation hanging out in the basement. And there isn't any real benefit to post count that I know of. You don't get any extra stuff for a large post count.

                                  I imagine whoever removed the post count from OT probably didn't even think about how that would skew the thanks/post ratio.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                    People WERE raising post counts in OT and in WSOs....they were posting one liners over and over and then going "upstairs" to offer something for sale. I remember when we discussed it.

                                    But the "thanks" and all that peripheral stuff is negligible to me. We have bots and people trying to take advantage of others and sigs are almost all either Fiverr ads or mlm signups these days. The proliferation of new members who have a real problem with the language used on this forum is concerning...how can you help someone who can't understand your reply?

                                    FL features the "total numbers" in its ads - and those numbers are growing while the participation numbers continue to decline.

                                    I don't think FL is out to harm the WF but I also don't think the way it's going is an accident or unplanned. I've given my opinion when asked by mods/admins here - some things I suggested were done - most weren't. Again - not my forum.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                    Well, that's odd to go to OT to raise post count
                                    Not at all....some peeps are almost always trying to raise their post count.

                                    as no one but the basement dwellers will see the posts (and your signature if you have one),
                                    and you don't build a business reputation hanging out in the basement. And there isn't any real benefit to post count that I know of.
                                    Seriously? Oh my gosh...then let's reset your numbers to zero and see how you like it. Good grief, post counts on a moderated business forum mean something to a lot of people, especially noobs. Why do you figure post counts exist in the first place?

                                    Wow... I really can't believe you just said that.

                                    You don't get any extra stuff for a large post count.
                                    Yes you do. You get forum cred...especially from noobs. Holy smokes, girl, what are you thinking!?!

                                    I imagine whoever removed the post count from OT probably didn't even think about how that would skew the thanks/post ratio.
                                    Mr. Says did it, and you are probably right, and that's exactly why it needs to be fixed now.

                                    Cheers

                                    -don
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                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                                      Seriously? Oh my gosh...then let's reset your numbers to zero and see how you like it. Good grief, post counts on a moderated business forum mean something to a lot of people, especially noobs. Why do you figure post counts exist in the first place? Wow... I really can't believe you just said that.
                                      What I said was that post counts in OT aren't desirable for building a business reputation or for getting signature exposure to prospects, so I don't understand why they would choose OT to inflate post count.

                                      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                                      Yes you do. You get forum cred...especially from noobs. Holy smokes, girl, what are you thinking!?!
                                      I have seen thousands of upstairs posters doing drive-by one liners constantly. It's an epidemic of short, meaningless posts. I never considered post count to imply credentials. I always considered post content to matter.

                                      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                                      Mr. Says did it, and you are probably right, and that's exactly why it needs to be fixed now.

                                      Cheers

                                      -don
                                      In the long run, it ain't going to fix the forum either way. If they perceive it as a problem, they'll do something about it. If not, they won't.

                                      Given the amount of one liners upstairs, I think Mr. Says over-corrected a problem and just sent the post count hounds upstairs. How did that benefit anything?
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                                      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                        Banned
                                        Again, this ain't about you specifically.

                                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                        What I said was that post counts in OT aren't desirable for building a business reputation or for getting signature exposure to prospects, so I don't understand why they would choose OT to inflate post count.
                                        Because many noobs never click through to see more than 3 or 4 posts, if any. They see the post count, they see the thanks count, and they see some positive reviews...bang, quick sale.

                                        I have seen thousands of upstairs posters doing drive-by one liners constantly. It's an epidemic of short, meaningless posts. I never considered post count to imply credentials. I always considered post content to matter.
                                        Again, you are not an ignorant noob or rook...

                                        In the long run, it ain't going to fix the forum either way. If they perceive it as a problem, they'll do something about it. If not, they won't.
                                        It will not fix the forum, but it will fix some of the skewed fake cred problem.

                                        Given the amount of one liners upstairs, I think Mr. Says over-corrected a problem and just sent the post count hounds upstairs. How did that benefit anything?
                                        You gotta be kidding. Mr. Says corrected the problem at the time...a long time ago...which was peeps building fake rep down here!

                                        The problem upstairs was created by Freelancer many years later when they fired the mods and replaced them with almost 100% hands off, not IM knowledgeable, inexperienced kids.

                                        Please don't try to conflate the two issues...they really are quite different.

                                        Cheers

                                        -don
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                                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                          Banned
                                          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                                          Again, this ain't about you specifically.

                                          Cheers

                                          -don
                                          Yeah ... that's enough for me of this conversation anyway. I have no hopes that this forum is salvageable any longer. It's been discussed over and over and Freelancer has set it's course and is going full speed ahead with their plans, whatever they may be. I don't think that any one of us or group of us could dissuade them on their course. They might consider a suggestion here and there, but the problems here are now pretty big and the forum in steep decline, and I don't see any fixes coming down the pike.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        My point is simple. I don't think you or any other mere member has the power to redefine what thanks should or shouldn't be, and for which forums they should or should not count.
                        By that rational I wont be expecting to see anymore posts from you suggesting improvements to the forum or how FL operates and that you were drunk when doing so previously?

                        It seems from your comments and Don's too, that there is irritation that there is a group or groups of people who seem to like each other and exchange thanks regularly.

                        Hmm I thought someone (you) said If I thought you were thinking of me in that group I would be vain....ooops. Nope - two separate issues. I said if you wanted to see the fraternity you could check thanks at the bottom of posts particularly that had nothing great to say. Whether links should count is a whole other matter Don brought up.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                          By that rational I wont be expecting to see anymore posts from you suggesting improvements to the forum or how FL operates
                          I have not made a single suggestion on how to "improve" the forum. I've submitted some threads in the appropriate suggestion forum when something wasn't working correctly to let them know something wasn't working correctly, or like the other day, when a bunch of us were stuck in "Feed Hell."
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                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            I have not made a single suggestion on how to "improve" the forum.
                            LOL.....Well hey if you can't be right you might as well be historical in denial. I take it you were going for a Clintonesque "depends on what the meaning of is ...is" moment. You succeeded.

                            Of course all the MYRIAD of posts saying what should not be done over the last two years were not suggestions for the improvement of the forum. Of course...whatever you say......lol
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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                              Of course all the MYRIAD of posts saying what should not be done over the last two years were not suggestions for the improvement of the forum. Of course...whatever you say......lol
                              I didn't say I wasn't critical of what has been done to this forum. I am, but much less so now, as it's far too late to care or to fix. But no, as I said, I don't have any handy dandy little suggestions for features and baubles to "improve" the WF. No glitzy little must have design changes.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    The issue is whether or not those of us in OT have the same rights as any other forum on this site and it is also
                    You would still have the right to thank down here just like you can in the other forums.

                    Actually, it's not the same on this sub-forum as it is in the main section and most of the others -- again -- your posts are not added to the tally down here like they are in almost all of the other forums. That was done for good reason.

                    ... you are insinuating that the majority of our thanks have been given for jokes, which simply isn't true.
                    For some members it's true (jokes, insults, goofy BS, etc). We know you and some others participate in other areas outside of OT, I for one, am not specifically addressing you with regards to the topic in general.

                    The majority of thanks were given upstairs.
                    It's very easy to see simply by looking at the ratios (under the avatar) that several members down here have mega thanks to post ratios, and that almost always tells you one thing - the vast majority of those thanks were garnered in the basement. Fact.

                    There aren't many down here who haven't been very active upstairs and quite a few still are.
                    Take a look beneath the avatars of some of the regular members...the thanks to post ratios are a joke...with some members thousands came down here while hundreds or maybe even just tens came from upstairs.

                    Emotional. lol. Not in the least bit. Who knows ... sounds a lot of "thanks envy" to me.
                    Lol --> Seriously. Nobody wants to take anyone's thanks or the ability to thank away! Who is that overly proud of all the thanks they racked up with absurdities, insults, and lame old overused juvenile humor that they don't mind if thanks are not counted in the visible total? Those thanks have almost nothing to do with marketing credibility or helpfulness, and they skew the ratios because the posts are not counted but the thanks are.

                    You are quite worried about about those little numbers under your avatar, aren't you? The thanks under the post itself is not good enough for you down here?

                    Nobody that I know of has advocated for the retroactive removal of your OT thanks from the tally...even if it was possible. Don't worry, you will still be one of the thanks goddesses of the universe, don't fret!! Alexa will still a thanks god and so on and so forth.

                    Your precious OT thanks will still show on the thread to enlighten others as to your basement prowess and your star will continue to shine brightly above us!

                    One last thing... I don't know why you keep insinuating that a proposed helpful fix to the system is all about you... Why? Seriously, I don't believe I have seen such a thing. You keep asking why we care for the noobs and more accurate IM rep tallies --> and all you seem to care about here is the thanks and post numbers underneath your avatar. To each, her own.

                    Anyway, I'm almost done riding this horse again.

                    Cheers

                    -don
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                      One last thing... I don't know why you keep insinuating that a proposed a helpful fix to the system is all about you...

                      Cheers

                      -don
                      It's not all about me. Someone asked for a vote. I voted. But yeah, I'm done with this pony as well. Silly discussion in my view.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post


                      Actually, it's not the same on this sub-forum as it is in the main section and most of the others -- again -- your posts are not added to the tally down here like they are in almost all of the other forums. That was done for good reason.
                      I think the no post counting actually makes the thank issue worse which I think you might have covered. Over the years there has even been thanks to post discussions upstairs. One to one or more makes it look to some like you are dropping nothing but pearls.

                      On a wider not I have long thought a more controlled reputation metric with privileges based on those metrics would solve a lot of issue on here but the idea was scoffed at. One ex mod even went to the lengths of calling it a silly idea. Now that we are building our own socially focused sites I know that characterization was just pure ignorance. Its HIGHLY doable.
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                      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        I think the no post counting actually makes the thank issue worse which I think you might have covered.
                        Yeah, I did and it does, without a doubt. That's why it is so important the tally stops.

                        On a wider not I have long thought a more controlled reputation metric with privileges based on those metrics would solve a lot of issue on here but the idea was scoffed at. One ex mod even went to the lengths of calling it a silly idea. Now that we are building our own socially focused sites I know that characterization was just pure ignorance. Its HIGHLY doable.
                        I have participated in a lengthy discussion or two in the past regarding thanks...and have also participated in some lengthy beefs on the direction of the forum with the powers that be and others. (WSO cleanup being memorable to me.)

                        I agree, to help bring this forum back a few things need to happen.

                        Starting with...

                        #1 The hands off, not knowing anything about forums or marketing, or IM, moderation needs to change. The mods help keep a forum on course...and this forum is woefully off-course. Once FL let the old mods go, not only was the forum heading of course, the whole damn ship started to sink.

                        #2 The thanks/cred system needs to be updated, no doubt about it.

                        #3) Probably the most important of all, or close to it, and you touched on it in your post, this type of forum needs something...great metrics, a good team of mods, or tons and tons of active superstars in the different fields etc. to thrive. That's not happening here and it's killing the forum...in-fact the forum is almost unrecognizable to many from just a few years ago.

                        To the forum owner's detriment, and our's, unfortunately it appears FL wants to handle moderation etc. in an overly clinical fashion...that won't work on most large forums that are business based and are monetized like this one is.

                        On top of that, they don't seen to want to have many knowledgeable member mods that could get intertwined into the fabric of the community, which IMO, is a very big mistake for this forum.

                        I have made suggestions directly to Alaister in the past that have been acted upon, and have been implemented, but like Suzi has said, most of these mods don't have any real powers, and not much that should get kicked upstairs, does get kicked upstairs with proper oommph.

                        So in my experience --> dealing with Alaister directly is almost always the only time something other than spam is addressed, and that's a very big problem.

                        I would be willing to spend time with Alaister, you, and anyone else that wants to discuss these matters to help improve the forum. I really would like to see the forum return to at least a shade of it's glory....heck, I might even post another WSO.

                        That Frank thing was nothing compared to the many knockdown drag outs I had with Paul M, but that guy is a real IM forum pro from a mod/admin standpoint, and I liked him. He usually got shit done when it needed to be done. You hit him with a copyright violation and he was on it. Hit him with a scammer and he was on it. Hit him with banned crook who came back again and he was on it.

                        We need active inergetic, informed mods...and he was one of those. Sure, everyone has faults, and not everyone liked him...but he was way good for the forum compared to the inexperience that lets the forum run wild now.

                        I think a real contemporary discussion needs to take place between new members and old, former mods, peeps with mod and IM experience, and the FL team in a semi-private setting. I think it would be very beneficial to all if of us if it could happen. If they take they suggestions and act the sun start to shine on the WF again

                        I may contact Alaister on a couple points, not holding my breath, but you never know. I figure with the mentions someone will see this thread...they should feel free to reach out and set it up.

                        Cheers

                        -don
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  • This is gettin' like a soap we all love so much we forgot alla the original cast died.
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      This is gettin' like a soap we all love so much we forgot alla the original cast died.
      Yeah we had this frosty the snowman character in vampire garb in December and now we have this monkey character. I'm going to stick with film. TV is on the fritz
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      • Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Yeah we had this frosty the snowman character in vampire garb in December and now we have this monkey character. I'm going to stick with film. TV is on the fritz
        The OP erased himself, an' Cartz is multiproliferously dead.

        Au contrairisti, I got a pulse, an' I got no idea how it is gonna eggnog off come mebbe Easter.

        Such is my *toot* à l'heure.
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  • I figure we need a kudos system based on chasin' nuts.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      I figure we need a kudos system based on chasin' nuts.
      I thought we'd already tried that. At least for me, I know that the admins stomped down hard and crushed my nuts. Oh, well. A squirrel's got to move forward.
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  • Hey, I know we are jus' ****in' around here sumtimes, an' we squirt thanks at kitty pix like the tears of the lost at empty air, but I figure it is cool to evidence a meandatory prowl, irrespective of the prevailin' gongcraft.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

      For me personally, it's sunbathing, dancing, and total body massage therapy.

      I have all seasons accounted for, lol! In the summer, I sunbathe and in the winter, I get total body massages. The dancing I do all of the time, so every season is covered, haha!

      What about you?


      Terra
      Careful Terra, direct sun exposure, can give you brain damage, cancer and dementia,.....

      It can also give you dementia, but l don't believe a word of it!


      But on a more serious note, and to derail this thread completely, l overheard someone talking about the Slip, Slop, Slap thing and she said, screw it!

      This was outside an antique shop, (my Mother) so, apart from some old people, most are ignoring it!

      I also read about someone who hada a vitamin D deficient illness, and the doctor, said, keep Slopping, and take this pill?

      So, yeah, glad to see that a lot of Aussies, have some intelligence!


      And as for this thread, seems like more seagulls and one hot chip? But at least this time some of the gulls have fluorescent paint on them!


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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Careful Terra, direct sun exposure, can give you brain damage, cancer and dementia,.....

        It can also give you dementia, but l don't believe a word of it!


        But on a more serious note, and to derail this thread completely, l overheard someone talking about the Slip, Slop, Slap thing and she said, screw it!

        This was outside an antique shop, (my Mother) so, apart from some old people, most are ignoring it!

        I also read about someone who hada a vitamin D deficient illness, and the doctor, said, keep Slopping, and take this pill?

        So, yeah, glad to see that a lot of Aussies, have some intelligence!


        And as for this thread, seems like more seagulls and one hot chip? But at least this time some of the gulls have fluorescent paint on them!


        Wow! I have a vitamin D deficiency during the winter months and my doctor told me to take Vitamin D3 during those winter months and be a sun worshiper in the summer (using common sense and some coconut oil) but no matter what, stay out of tanning beds!

        I've never even laid eyes on one in my entire life.


        Terra
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