Sleep

Kay King

8 years ago

I just try to read up on this forum and watch youtube and the day goes by like a cheetah after a gazelle.

Instead of cutting back on sleep - limit your time on forums and Youtube...how many funny videos do you need to watch?

It doesn't matter if you stay awake 24 hrs a day if you don't use the time productively.

[ 6 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10661613].message }}

mwallat 8 years ago

Youtube videos of cold-calling,SEO, sales, Grant Cardone not funny videos. Yes productivity matters and can be increased by reducing sleep slightly and safely. I can do more with my 18 hours than you can with your 16 and over time this can add up to a lot of money.If I work 7 days, I'm up 14 more hours than you are. 728 more hours a year.
- [ 2 ] Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10661796].message }}

Jestated

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Instead of cutting back on sleep - limit your time on forums and Youtube...how many funny videos do you need to watch?

It doesn't matter if you stay awake 24 hrs a day if you don't use the time productively.

I agree with Kay, I sleep 10 hours a day... I think my body needs that much sleep because if I sleep less then 10 hours then my day will be $%$^ up but it varies from person to person so If 4 hour is good for you then you must try it.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10663401].message }}

yukon

Banned 8 years ago

Lol, he times his sleep down to the minute?

I just sleep until I wake up.

[ 6 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10661727].message }}

FemaleAddadotcom 8 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Lol, he times his sleep down to the minute?

I just sleep until I wake up.

when i am in between jobs.. this is exactly what i do.. not when i am working though.. i dont feel like waking up before 11 am..
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10662480].message }}

ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Hello,

I operated on 4 hours of sleep a night (or less) for many, many years including during my time with the U.S. Navy and later during my years in consumer electronics retail management. Not everyone can do it and perform well, and most of those that do it will suffer some adverse affects from not getting "enough" sleep, eventually.

If you are one of the lucky ones with the so-called "sleep" gene (genetic mutation of the DEC2 gene), you may only need between 4-6 hours of sleep for a full night's rest. The Thatcher gene, otherwise known as p. Tyr362HIS is a variant of the BHLHE41 gene. Yes, the variant is named after Margaret Thatcher... Unfortunately, only a relative few of us have been blessed with this genetic advantage. Nope, I don't know whether I have the mutation or not.

Cheers

-don

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10662780].message }}

mwallat

8 years ago

That's interesting, I didn't know there was a gene that enables you to sleep less. It's usually person to person, I naturally sleep right at about 7 on the dot but I don't use alarms. Starting my own business I can see that everything needs to be monitored so you can make the work flow more efficient. I feel that diet has a lot to do with it and I eat a lot of whole foods which is the only reason I would try this in the first place. I just think it's a new time, the 7 or 8 hours they told us growing up can be reduced now. With proper exercise and diet you can potentially live a longer (conscious) life and make more money.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10663124].message }}

BIG Mike

Banned 8 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664398].message }}

mwallat

8 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

You're clearly confusing business workflow with personal habits - that's ridiculous. Your sleeping habits have nothing to do at all with your business...sheesh!

I'm not confusing anything I'm trying safely and effectively utilize more time while I am here on earth. Did you not see the potential of 728 more hours from sleeping 6 hours instead of 8. Do you know what I can do with 728 hours? I think you're confused about my passion to be awake and conscious for this short life we have. It's all person to person, if you need twelve you need twelve. personally I can see only needing 6 and I may try 5 and 3 quarters.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664588].message }}

irawr

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Hello,

I operated on 4 hours of sleep a night (or less) for many, many years including during my time with the U.S. Navy and later during my years in consumer electronics retail management. Not everyone can do it and perform well, and most of those that do it will suffer some adverse affects from not getting "enough" sleep, eventually.

If you are one of the lucky ones with the so-called "sleep" gene (genetic mutation of the DEC2 gene), you may only need between 4-6 hours of sleep for a full night's rest. The Thatcher gene, otherwise known as p. Tyr362HIS is a variant of the BHLHE41 gene. Yes, the variant is named after Margaret Thatcher... Unfortunately, only a relative few of us have been blessed with this genetic advantage. Nope, I don't know whether I have the mutation or not.

Cheers

-don

I just got up from sleeping about 9.5 hours.

You know that micro sleeping crap shrinks your brain right? No thanks.

At about 3pm EST I'm going to write two 2k-2.5k word pillar articles for two different sites, I should be done by 7. Everything else I do today will be things like email, social media, outsourcing. I'll eventually edit those articles a bit, add media, then publish them some time today. I'll be doing that stuff casually until about 1am EST.

If you just have 3-6 hours a day where you go full hustle mode and 100% focus on what needs to be done, I'm sure you could sleep as much as you wanted and still get more done. Reducing the amount of time you are unconscious does not increase total productivity.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664214].message }}

ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by irawr

I just got up from sleeping about 9.5 hours.

Good for you, I can't sleep that long --> unless I stay up for days and nights straight and then go to sleep.

You know that micro sleeping crap shrinks your brain right? No thanks.

No microsleeping here, no head nobs either....fresh fresh fresh.

Quality > Quantity. At about 3pm EST I'm going to write two 2k-2.5k word pillar articles for two different sites, I should be done by 7.

Cool beans for you. Sometimes when I am in a groove I will work on images and artwork until the sun comes up. I do some of my best work very late in the evenings, so it's not unusual that I will start working on photos and images in the morning, and then work through the entire day and night. I do like to hit the rack before the sun makes it too high up over the horizon though. I crash for a few hours then I am back at my desk between 7:30 and 9:00AM...put in another full day, possibly well into the night, and that's how my regular routine is if I have a nice project going. I can go like this for months and months on end...

I used to do 20 hour days...day after day after day in the Navy. I had a top secret clearance and worked on the most sophisticated gear on the ship....not a problem.

When I was in Nuclear Power School we did 12 hours days, six days a week...and on top I was putting in a mandatory extra 35 hours a week of supervised study. Yeah, that's 107 hours of intense math, physics, chemistry, thermodynamics etc. study every week. 4 minute breaks on the hour with a 30 minute break for lunch....and I had a wife and son at the time. Sleep? What sleep?

When I was managing large consumer electronic stores across Iowa and Illinois I averaged 90 hours a week...every week...for years. I was the troubleshooter, the guy that was brought in to turn around stores that were underperforming.

Everything else I do today will be things like email, social media, outsourcing. I'll eventually edit those articles a bit, add media, then publish them some time today. I'll be doing that stuff casually until about 1am EST.

I have a library of nearly one million of my own images and have a ton of long term projects going that are related....I have enough work in there to last me two lifetimes. I am working on several coffee table books, a great many domains - dozens of which I have owned for more than a decade, and a long term archival project to make sure my imagery survives well past my lifetime.

This includes a searchable digital catalog of almost my entire image library, as well as a printed record of each of my best images...the "photo album" total somewhere between 25,000 and 50,000 4x6 printed images.

Yes, I have more than 100,000 sheets of Canon photo paper and a nice wide format printer on hand....in-fact a project that had me working late hours was a a massive print project I did for our house....

I made a purchase of 200 gallery format picture frames...most all of them 13x19's, 12x18's, 11x17's, 9x12's, 8.5x11's, and 8x10's and then proceeded to turn a few rooms of my house into a live-in art and photo gallery. Eventually, the entire house. That's a ton of work...from image capture to the finished printed image arrays on the walls...all done by me.

Anyway, when I am not working on long term projects, client projects, etc. etc I am out shooting new images somewhere, if possible...concerts, festivals, sports, events, parks etc. etc.

I recently knocked down several dozen of my old sites to rebuild...and that's another large project that takes a ton of time to do what I want to do with the rebuilds.

I also have a few new launches in the works...with the imagery about 50% complete at this point.

If you just have 3-6 hours a day where you go full hustle mode and 100% focus on what needs to be done, I'm sure you could sleep as much as you wanted and still get more done.

Not a chance in hell! Full hustle mode? Full hustle mode? Good grief....I have worked jobs that full hustle jobs were mandatory or many folks were in a world of hurt.

Obviously you don't know how long it takes to deal with a large volume of professional imagery, especially since you don't know what I am doing with basically what is my life's work. At this point in my life --> I am almost old (lol), I don't have another 80 years left - so to accomplish what I want to accomplish, it may take 10-12 hours a day for then next 4 or 5 years. Creating something that will last, and be relevant for generations, often times takes more than 3 to 6 hours a day of work.

Secondarily, I worked over 6 years of my life where we were understaffed intentionally...we did this for a few reasons

#1 We were a few of the best employees in the company and we could handle it.

#2 Higher potential for commissions and more commissions operating with fewer cohorts.

#3 We made great money and provided great customer service, among the best in the company at the time, which was 150+ nationwide retail stores.

#4 Two of us worked 90-105 hour weeks, the others about 65 or 70.

#5 We did this for the reward...a big fat paycheck for us at the end of the month, and the nice high profit margins that corporate wanted to see.

In the military (and some other jobs) sometimes you have no choice...short staffed departments, mandatory 4 hour watches daily, duty days, and lots of gear that needs maintenance means that sometimes you will be working 36 or 48 hours straight... Usually, only the strong survive. By the time I was 22 years old, 4 hours a night sleep for me was dreamy!

Reducing the amount of time you are unconscious does not increase total productivity.

Without proper qualifiers, that statement is total unadulterated hogwash. Some people don't need a lot of sleep, and if those people apply themselves they can often accomplish twice as much, or more, by working twice as long.

Hello man, I have hobbies that can take 4-6 hours a day. I also like to cook all the meals and spend time with my wife, pets, hit the concerts, golf course, lake, park etc. etc. On top of that I am a news and politics junky....sheet, man...gotta find time for my daily fill!

When I was a kid I used to like sleeping in....the older I grow, the less I like to sleep in.

Recently I started using a sleep monitor and I do actually track my the amount of unbroken deep sleep that I get each night. The great majority of the time, I get the longest stretches of deep sleep when I get between 3:45 hours to 4:30 hours of total sleep for the night. If I go to bed too early, almost always I end up getting many small stretches of interrupted deep sleep, instead of 1 or 2 nice long stretches. That's my personal sleep cycle, of-course many others will be quite different.

I think I may have myself figured out (at least a bit) in this regard. I believe what is happening is this--> when I am more physically and/or mentally exhausted my brain "goes to sleep" much quicker than it does if I go to bed a couple of hours earlier.

If I try to hit the rack at, say 12AM, my brain is still flooded with different project stuff. I know it is because every night when I go to sleep my brain runs through the days business and what I have coming up next....it's been that way since I was in intense electronics theory training on the late night eve and mid shifts over 30 years ago. I did so much studying back then my wife would tell that I was constantly talking electronics and formulas for long periods during my sleep.

Simply put....3-6 hours a day is not enough time to complete what I want to get done before I leave this earth. Sure, I work some late nights...but if at any time I feel I am getting a bit tired, stressed, or overworked --> I take a day or a half-day off.

Cheers

-don

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664408].message }}

irawr

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

I used to do 20 hour days...day after day after day in the Navy. I had a top secret clearance and worked on the most sophisticated gear on the ship....not a problem.

When I was in Nuclear Power School we did 12 hours days, six days a week...and on top I was putting in a mandatory extra 35 hours a week of supervised study. Yeah, that's 107 hours of intense math, physics, chemistry, thermodynamics etc. study every week. 4 minute breaks on the hour with a 30 minute break for lunch....and I had a wife and son at the time. Sleep? What sleep?

Sounds Insane.

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

When I was managing large consumer electronic stores across Iowa and Illinois I averaged 90 hours a week...every week...for years. I was the troubleshooter, the guy that was brought in to turn around stores that were underperforming.

I hope that was worth it.

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Not a chance in hell! Full hustle mode? Full hustle mode? Good grief....I have worked jobs that full hustle jobs were mandatory or many folks were in a world of hurt.

Obviously you don't know how long it takes to deal with a large volume of professional imagery, especially since you don't know what I am doing with basically what is my life's work. At this point in my life --> I am almost old (lol), I don't have another 80 years left - so to accomplish what I want to accomplish, it may take 10-12 hours a day for then next 4 or 5 years. Creating something that will last, and be relevant for generations, often times takes more than 3 to 6 hours a day of work.

Right, obviously I don't know about what you do. That's kind of a redundant statement.

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Secondarily, I worked over 6 years of my life where we were understaffed intentionally...we did this for a few reasons

#1 We were a few of the best employees in the company and we could handle it.

#2 Higher potential for commissions and more commissions operating with fewer cohorts.

#3 We made great money and provided great customer service, among the best in the company at the time, which was 150+ nationwide retail stores.

#4 Two of us worked 90-105 hour weeks, the others about 65 or 70.

#5 We did this for the reward...a big fat paycheck for us at the end of the month, and the nice high profit margins that corporate wanted to see.

Again, I think you think that was worth it but I don't think working for anybody is worth it.

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

In the military (and some other jobs) sometimes you have no choice...short staffed departments, mandatory 4 hour watches daily, duty days, and lots of gear that needs maintenance means that sometimes you will be working 36 or 48 hours straight... Usually, only the strong survive. By the time I was 22 years old, 4 hours a night sleep for me was dreamy!

Well, you had a choice at one point or another.

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Without proper qualifiers, that statement is total unadulterated hogwash. Some people don't need a lot of sleep, and if those people apply themselves they can often accomplish twice as much, or more, by working twice as long.

Hello man, I have hobbies that can take 4-6 hours a day. I also like to cook all the meals and spend time with my wife, pets, hit the concerts, golf course, lake, park etc. etc. On top of that I am a news and politics junky....sheet, man...gotta find time for my daily fill!

Oh no, to me, it sounds like you definitely need to slow way down and put much more thought into how you utilize your time.

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

When I was a kid I used to like sleeping in....the older I grow, the less I like to sleep in.

Recently I started using a sleep monitor and I do actually track my the amount of unbroken deep sleep that I get each night. The great majority of the time, I get the longest stretches of deep sleep when I get between 3:45 hours to 4:30 hours of total sleep for the night. If I go to bed too early, almost always I end up getting many small stretches of interrupted deep sleep, instead of 1 or 2 nice long stretches. That's my personal sleep cycle, of-course many others will be quite different.

I think I may have myself figured out (at least a bit) in this regard. I believe what is happening is this--> when I am more physically and/or mentally exhausted my brain "goes to sleep" much quicker than it does if I go to bed a couple of hours earlier.

If I try to hit the rack at, say 12AM, my brain is still flooded with different project stuff. I know it is because every night when I go to sleep my brain runs through the days business and what I have coming up next....it's been that way since I was in intense electronics theory training on the late night eve and mid shifts over 30 years ago. I did so much studying back then my wife would tell that I was constantly talking electronics and formulas for long periods during my sleep.

Simply put....3-6 hours a day is not enough time to complete what I want to get done before I leave this earth. Sure, I work some late nights...but if at any time I feel I am getting a bit tired, stressed, or overworked --> I take a day or a half-day off.

Cheers

-don

You know you can hire people to things for you right? I realized pretty early on in the game that I wanted to get 200 hours of work done a week. That's not possible, so I learned how to hire people and manage a small team.

I found some friends who had various skills, an artist and a person who didn't actually want to write, but I convinced them to do it anyways. I paid them $11 an hour and gave them 100% flexibility so they could work when they had time. This was actually dumb and I learned that you need minimums as I ended up putting ads on CL to get more employees and had to replace those two people.

You sound like you're extremely motivated so I hope you take this advice: learn how to not do the work and still accomplish what you want.

You might not make as much but it's way easier.

I truly believe in establishing goals and then taking the path of shortest resistance to get there. I'm not going to jeopardize my health for monopoly money. I don't need to at this point anyways. When I was getting things rolling, I did put crazy hours in (for years.) I'm at a point now where I'll sleep in, lay off the caffeine, and I still get more way more accomplished in a day then any one signal human being possibly could.

And seriously, go read some studies on sleep. It sounds like you're working yourself to death. I'm all for long hours but it has to be balanced out. I busted out a 2.5k word pillar article and came back here. I'm behind my own schedule for today but I'll make up for that later. The rest of today's planned activities are pretty chill.

In terms of value generated, I would expect to pay $100-300 per pillar and I produce two a day, typically 7 days a week. When I do this, I prepare to write the content ahead of time, I allow zero distractions, and I hustle through it as fast as possible. I pretend like, "I have this paper due in 1 hour" and I blast it out as fast as I can. It sounds like you're active much of the day, but can you ever achieve a level of pure focus to do something like that in that time frame?

The value I personally generate doesn't even account for everything else my team does. I wish it made more, but such is life.

I also think that my absolute best ideas came to me when I was doing the least amount of work and the worst ideas always involved the most amount of work.

Note: I usually encounter people with the opposite problem. It also sounds like you've got a lot going on. I don't. I'm single. I work 12 hours a day on my business (see above, most of the day is quite relaxed.) That's about it. I'm working on a specific dollar/month goal (which most people would consider to be high) and when I get that I'll do start doing something else.

Last tip: "On top of that I am a news and politics junky....sheet, man...gotta find time for my daily fill!" me too but I set a pomodoro timer (app not a physical one) to 15 minutes and that's it. Which the timer for this post has gone over. So back to work.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664616].message }}

mwallat

8 years ago

It's not all about business productivity there are a lot of people who only sleep 4 hours a night for a majority of their lives I believe a linebacker for the Giants said he only slept 4 hours and you talking about one of the most physically demanding sports in the world. I personally fight sleep all the time in order to do more think more plan more. Some people are so in love with life they don't want to take a break. To each their own that's all anyone's gonna do anyway.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664648].message }}

rhondaklewis

8 years ago

Originally Posted by mwallat

It's not all about business productivity there are a lot of people who only sleep 4 hours a night for a majority of their lives I believe a linebacker for the Giants said he only slept 4 hours and you talking about one of the most physically demanding sports in the world. I personally fight sleep all the time in order to do more think more plan more. Some people are so in love with life they don't want to take a break. To each their own that's all anyone's gonna do anyway.

Constantly fighting sleep can't be good.Who know you better than your body? You should listen to it.
I hate to see you crash and burn. Maybe while you are doing all this research on sleep you should look up sleep deprivation.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664846].message }}

mwallat

8 years ago

Originally Posted by rhondaklewis

Constantly fighting sleep can't be good.Who know you better than your body? You should listen to it.
I hate to see you crash and burn. Maybe while you are doing all this research on sleep you should look up sleep deprivation.

Oh I have read a bit on sleep. Not sleeping long enough can actually lead to death, and 24 hours with no sleep can have the cognitive effects of being illegally intoxicated. I feel that diet, stress levels, and environment are big factors in sleep. I'm trying to address diet now then environment then stress for a better overall quality of life.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10666112].message }}

ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by irawr

Sounds Insane.

Yeah, it ranks right up with Harvard Law School in difficulty.

I hope that was worth it.

It was... Thanks.

Right, obviously I don't know about what you do. That's kind of a redundant statement.

But yet you are trying to tell me how to utilize my time and how much I should sleep. Go figure.

Again, I think you think that was worth it but I don't think working for anybody is worth it.

Of course not... I guess you would never serve your country then, eh? I learned some of my greatest skills working for companies that I don't own.

Well, you had a choice at one point or another.

The problem is --> you don't get the point, apparently any of them.

Oh no, to me, it sounds like you definitely need to slow way down and put more much more thought into how you utilize your time.

Laughing my a$$ off.... You are a rather pretentious son-of-a-gun, eh?

I enjoy life, time with my family, music, sports, fishing, boating, cooking etc. etc. I also enjoy what I do... That's why I am doing what I love to do...image making and making images. It's sorta like telling an artist to put the brush down and stop painting so many great paintings...or paintings that the artist enjoys.

You know you can hire people to things for you right?

Really? Nah, I didn't know that. I opened the first DISH sales and service location in Northern Illinois back in 1996. Hell, I musta forgot that I hired installers and salesmen.

Shoot, when I ran a half-dozen major consumer electronic stores I completely forgot that I hired managers, assistant managers, salesmen, and technicians. Dang! Thanks for reminding me.

I realized pretty early on in the game that I wanted to get 200 hours of work done a week. That's not possible, so I learned how to hire people and manage a small team.

You are not a photographer, photo artist, or an artist are you? I don't think so...

I found some friends who had various skills, an artist and a person who didn't actually want to write, but I convinced them to do it anyways. I paid them $11 an hour and gave them 100% flexibility so they could work when they had time.

Hiring a decent photographer with proper gear will run me anywhere from $75-500 an hour. Someone coming in here and doing my life project form is not going to happen.

This was actually dumb and I learned that you need minimums as I ended up putting ads on CL to get more employees and had to replace those two people.

You do realize I am a photographer and an image artist right? I do some marketing, but very little. I specialize in fine art and a few other areas. Google did serve me well from 2002 to about 2013....no marketing necessary.

You sound like you're extremely motivated so I hope you take this advice: learn how to not do the work and still accomplish what you want.

I accomplished that a long time ago by taking the valedictorian and head varsity football cheerleader to our senior prom.

That was 33 years ago. I have accomplished a good deal of things already, but I still have a few more to go.

You might not make as much but it's way easier.

I don't chase all the money anymore...I did that until I was about 35...for the last 15 years or so I have been doing what I want to do....which at times, means less money made.

I truly believe in establishing goals and then taking the path of shortest resistance to get there. I'm not going to jeopardize my health for monopoly money.

Agreed. As long as the path is legal and not unethical.

I don't need to at this point anyways. When I was getting things rolling, I did put crazy hours in. I'm at a point now where I'll sleep in, lay off the caffeine, and I still get more way more accomplished in a day then any one signal human being possibly could.

Superman, eh?

And seriously, go read some studies on sleep.

Are you kidding me? I have been informally studying the brain for years, and I have read many sleep studies and articles for gosh sake!

It sounds like you're working yourself to death.

Wrong. I have not been sick or injured where I have had to see a doctor in 25 years. I'm chill while I work...have been that way since I started working for myself in 1996.

I'm all for long hours but it has to be balanced out. I busted out a 2.5k word pillar article and came back here. I'm behind my own schedule for today but I'll make up for that later. The rest of today's planned activities are pretty chill.

I described some of my balance above...I am a fairly well rounded guy.

In terms of value generated, I would expect to pay $100-300 per pillar and I produce two a day, typically 7 days a week. Not to mention everything else my team does. I wish it made more, but such is life.

A different life for me... A good day for me is I get to see a great rock concert, I shoot some great photos, I print some big prints and hang them on the wall, and then I put the shot in an archive that will one day be turned into a rock and roll coffee table book.

Cheers

-don

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664698].message }}

irawr

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Agreed. As long as the path is legal and not unethical.

Yeah uhm... We don't really see eye to eye here at all.

Speeding isn't legal but almost everybody does it. I guess it depends on what were talking about as far as that goes.

Unethical... Man, I mean that's just so subjective. I try not to judge people or why people want things myself, I just point them in the right direction.

Isn't it wrong for me to judge somebody who wants to use a hook up dating site or needs a payday loan because they can't manage their money? I mean I wouldn't use a service like the ones I mentioned, but the reality of the matter is they're going to get the service either way and if it's not me getting the commission it's somebody else.

I could market shaving cream, razors, or something fluffy bunny like that (and I do have some very fluffy stuff I market, produced by companies that are just as aggressive as they all are) but that sounds kind of difficult to make real money off of. $50+CPA vs 8% on a few dollars ... And lets be clear about this, there's no shortage of people looking to use those services... I've seen ads for that stuff in newspapers, so ... How is a website any different then that?

Since I do SEO, I have faith that Google will let me know if they don't want me marketing a service, if they can find it through the cloaking...

Edit: Also do you know where you are? This site is basically a massive business opportunity network... You came to Warrior Forums and mentioned ethics ... Riiiiight..... There's entire sections dedicated to selling computer files ... Massive threads about getting into the business of selling computer files and people buy computer files which teach them how to sell computer files.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664801].message }}

ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by irawr

Unethical... Man, I mean that's just so subjective.

Not always.

Edit: Also do you know where you are?

Sure I do, a marketing forum that I have busted a lot of pirates on over the years!

A forum that I used to enjoy picking up unique software and cool wp plugins on - at a good price.

A forum that made me a few grand on my initial foray into the WSO waters...an ethical offer of great value...a ton of my images, at an absurdly great price, with a great license.

A forum that I like to help people on by doing marketing product reviews, giving valuable input and answering questions on almost all things images and copyrights --> and a few other things.

A forum I browse on occasion for the possible spot of trending marketing tips and/or tidbits that I can use.

I used to enjoy venturing into the war room for some decent product downloads and useful internet marketing instruction.

A tiny bit of my internet history. I registered my first domain in the 90's and made my first image sale from the web in 2002 or 2003. By 2005 I was getting 450,000 real page views a day at one of the image sites. Obviously, it went viral. I leased my first fully managed dedicated server in 2005 to serve my own image sites and I am still with that same hosting company after 4 or 5 upgrades and 14 years. I started on a P4 and now I am using a E3-1230 on a fat pipe to serve sites and deliver files. I have owned several hundred domains over the years and I built and developed dozens of those myself....several with thousand of pages of real content, created by hand. I have owned thousands of good and great google keyword and key phrases over the years ---> earned by posting great images and great descriptions since the early 2000's. I have controlled hundreds of relative keywords on single photo sites. I hit 10,000,000 page views on my original social media account back in 2005.

The WF basement (here) is a board I occasionally frequent for a bit of interaction with reasonable folks, on non-marketing topics that I have personal knowledge on/or have an interest in. I participated on this thread because I have a 35 year interest in genetics, the brain, my own sleep habits, the sleep gene etc. If you browse through my posting history....you will see I have thousands of posts in off-topic and you may notice a pattern. Down here, for the past year or two, I have enjoyed mostly music topics, some scientific and engineering discussion, topics on our pets, tribute threads when legends pass away, sports threads, some of the newsy threads, some of the discussion on forum direction, the change of ownership etc. etc. etc.

This site is basically a massive business opportunity network...

No kidding? Thanks for letting me know that. I launched a successful WSO a couple of years ago here....images I shot or created. I have met some great contacts here, and heck, I even and received a great WSO review from one of the all-time great WF legends...one I butted heads with more than too many times over the course of a couple of years here, but a guy that was a great moderator/administrator of this forum, and I was well pleased to have him as a satisfied paying customer.

You came to Warrior Forums and mentioned ethics ... Riiiiight.....

Yeah, I did.

I have saved thousands of people from unknowingly purchasing pirated images, videos, scripts, plugins, programs and ebooks here on WF by getting bogus offers closed and the links removed. I have busted so many image pirates on here it's been acknowledged publicly on the forum a couple of different times. I have nailed many a member that was peddling or giving away pirated warez or images in the war room and elsewhere as well. And yes, I have outed a few shills here too. Shoot, back in the day I would force bogus vendors to remove pirated imagery from their WSO sales pages.

I get your point, I really do...

There's entire sections dedicated to selling computer files ...

Please post a few links to what you are talking about, maybe a half dozen or so would be great.

Massive threads about getting into the business of selling computer files and people buy computer files which teach them how to sell computer files.

Discussion of illegal warez and pure blackhat discussion is not allowed here in that context. If the discussion is about selling legal files, it's allowed. Please throw us up some links so we can get those threads reported, if needed.

Thanks

-don

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10665065].message }}

irawr

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

I get your point, I really do...

Please post a few links to what you are talking about, maybe a half dozen or so would be great.

Discussion of illegal warez and pure blackhat discussion is not allowed here in that context. If the discussion is about selling legal files, it's allowed. Please throw us up some links so we can get those threads reported, if needed.

You're the one talking about illegal stuff. I'm talking about people buying, republishing, and re-branding the same information over and over again and the ethics of that. I just went to a certain forum, got my calculator out, and totaled up the monthly earnings I could be earning from those products, it came to $79,600 monthly income, WOW. Do I really need to give you a link to that?

You know, some people (myself included) consider IM to be one of the dirtiest niches right? (Whether your aware of it or not, there's little to no chance that the information isn't available somewhere else for free and legally, so IMers sell free information to un-knowledgeable people. That's about as close to scamming as you can get without it just being a scam. I know I've said you can market anything ethically, but I have no idea how product creators in the IM space get away with their complete lack of transparency. Case studies would be an example of something, that I would consider to be an ethical IM product and when I check that forum, I think it's hysterical that none of the those case studies are making any claims at all about monthly income. I also think those people are totally missing the point of the business entirely, the point of the business is to take advantage of un-knowledgable people. I personally market offline BizOps and had to get over that fact myself along time ago, things like "how to open a franchise" to be clear here. Once I stopped lying to myself about what I was doing, my income went up dramatically with those offers specifically.)

We are massively off topic, if you want to discuss the ethics of selling information to people, make a new thread in OT, and I will happily discuss that with you there.

And if you haven't figure out what my opinion on this forum is, PM me. I'll tell you what's going on here. I'm not going to say it in a thread because I don't want to get banned (again.)

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10665985].message }}

socialentry

8 years ago

Originally Posted by irawr

You're the one talking about illegal stuff. I'm talking about people buying, republishing, and re-branding the same information over and over again and the ethics of that. I just went to a certain forum, got my calculator out, and totaled up the monthly earnings I could be earning from those products, it came to $79,600 monthly income, WOW. Do I really need to give you a link to that?

You know, some people (myself included) consider IM to be one of the dirtiest niches right? (Whether your aware of it or not, there's little to no chance that the information isn't available somewhere else for free and legally, so IMers sell free information to un-knowledgeable people. That's about as close to scamming as you can get without it just being a scam. I know I've said you can market anything ethically, but I have no idea how product creators in the IM space get away with their complete lack of transparency. Case studies would be an example of something, that I would consider to be an ethical IM product and when I check that forum, I think it's hysterical that none of the those case studies are making any claims at all about monthly income. I also think those people are totally missing the point of the business entirely, the point of the business is to take advantage of un-knowledgable people. I personally market offline BizOps and had to get over that fact myself along time ago, things like "how to open a franchise" to be clear here. Once I stopped lying to myself about what I was doing, my income went up dramatically with those offers specifically.)

We are massively off topic, if you want to discuss the ethics of selling information to people, make a new thread in OT, and I will happily discuss that with you there.

And if you haven't figure out what my opinion on this forum is, PM me. I'll tell you what's going on here. I'm not going to say it in a thread because I don't want to get banned (again.)

I think anyone with at least one brain cell and more then 2 weeks in IM have
figured it out....

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10669756].message }}

briannaemm

8 years ago

Isn't it unhealthy to take only 6 hours of sleep?

Expert says we should take at least 7 hours of sleep.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10663324].message }}

PaulSch

8 years ago

I saw a guy on YouTube jumping off a building but it didn't encourage me to do the same.
I think you are too easily influenced by external factors.
Instead of worrying about how many extra hours a year "advantage" you will have over "normal" people why not become more efficient in your use of the time available to you.

[ 3 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Get FREE Access To Over 180 Webmaster Training Videos here. Did I mention they are totally free?

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10663514].message }}

mwallat

8 years ago

Originally Posted by PaulSch

I saw a guy on YouTube jumping off a building but it didn't encourage me to do the same.
I think you are too easily influenced by external factors.
Instead of worrying about how many extra hours a year "advantage" you will have over "normal" people why not become more efficient in your use of the time available to you.

Oh but I saw a guy (Grant Cardone) and that DID encourage me to do the same. Who was that guy jumping off the building by the way. I'm still getting 14 more hours out of the week than you and I'm not taking any physical or mental tole, In fact I would rate 30% over you and I sleep about 5 hours a day. Worry about how much money you can get out of the day not me getting more out of life than you. Thanks.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664659].message }}

RobertGetFiFi

8 years ago

Every time I try to control my sleep I'm up all night.. Woke up at 2am. Been up since. No fun.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664529].message }}

socialentry

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Yeah, that's 107 hours of intense math, physics, chemistry, thermodynamics etc. study every week. 4 minute breaks on the hour with a 30 minute break for lunch....and I had a wife and son at the time.

My technique for studying mathematics is the ZZZzzzZZZ technique.

I read the textbook like a novel. Whenever I encounter a problem, I go go play video games for the remainder of the day then I go to bed , and then tada when I wake up heaven grants me the answer.

I don't understand why people hate math. this is the easiest subject. If only people were using the ZzzzZZZ technique, they would all be good at math.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664642].message }}

celente

8 years ago

as a advanced marketer I have three words for you.

WHAT IS SLEEP!

LOL

most my day is testing, and then refreshing stats..... Bwwhahahahahah!

anyone worth their salt, would know what this is all about. LOL.

Thanks

Signature

Create a $5000 USD a month Business. 1-on-1 Coaching. By 6 figure marketer! - CLICK HERE

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10664827].message }}

HeySal

8 years ago

I hope I can comment without have to do a whole who's who write up on myself.

I used to sleep so little it was ridiculous when I was in college. I used to take up to 28 credits a semester - all heavy research, writing, reading subjects. I slept very little for several years. I was only in my late twenties so it didn't bother me. For two weeks at a time during mid-terms and finals I would sleep for about five or six hours every 48. That would last for 3 weeks, then I'd take a day off and sleep for around 12 and I was good to go again.

Until I was in my mid 40's it didn't bother me to pull an all nighter - a very rare 2 all nighters together. When I started online back in 2004 I could pull an eighteen hour day at the computer - given hourly 10 minute breaks for stretches and food and every 4 hours a half hour walk with the dog. I did that for around 4 years.

The trick in those days was to eat frequently. I have kept my metobolism on "burn" my entire life so I burn everything I eat rather than store it. If I get tired - I just eat more.

Around my late 40's I started to slow down a little bit and got to the point that if I went to bed without an alarm I sleep 7.25 hours when I am feeling normal. If I slept longer than that I'd start prevention for whatever I might be coming down with unless it was on a night that I slept light that week. I've been well, active and not really concerned with sleep at all. Still pulled an occasional all nighter or 4 hour night, but didn't feel as normal the next day anymore.

A couple of months back I had a health crash when every aspect of my life decided to conspire against me all at once (I'm 61) It was a quick crash, a few days in the hospital, and just move to where the environment wasn't going to kill me. I've been recovering for 6 weeks and am at 9 hours a night right now - down from 12. It's frustrating to me to need as much sleep as I suddenly do, but I know it's temporary.

Now what my view of sleep is...........if you don't need it....kewl........but if your aren't functioning after the amount of hours you sleep (or skip) then it's time to get more. Yes, it's really that simple. As long as you are thinking straight and feel good, you are getting enough sleep. If you are getting what should be enough and it isn't being.........check your health.

I don't see any problem with the OP wanting to sleep less as long as he's functional after what he allows himself....and knows enough to add some time if not.

One thing I learned was that if you want to sleep fewer hours is to sleep short amounts of time during the day. If I take an evening nap, I'm up almost all night and fairly productive when I want to be.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10665982].message }}

Zodiax

8 years ago

I like to sleep for 18 hours if I could- but I can't

.

Thanks

Signature

'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
-Muhammad Ali

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10666009].message }}

Kay King

8 years ago

For years, I lived on 4-6 hrs of sleep a night. I got by and I don't think it hurt me - but I was tired a LOT of the time. I didn't have time for more sleep because life was too busy then. Two jobs - two sons and their activities - house to care for - a yard - pets - friends.... There were valid reasons for lack of sleep.

I always knew there would be a time in the future when I could sleep as long as I wanted, etc. That time is now and I go to sleep when I'm sleepy and I wake up when I'm ready. Turns out 7-8 hours is just right for me. Much less or more and I'm a grump when I wake up. (I can hear some saying "how is that different from the rest of your day" but I'm going to ignore that...)

Thanks

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10670399].message }}

Profit Traveler

Banned 8 years ago

I love fitness and the body is working for you in your sleep to regenerate and build those muscles.

Avoiding sleep is like using less oil in your car in my humble opinion.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10670792].message }}

mwallat

8 years ago

Well, sleep got more interesting replies than I thought it would. Sleep is a very important part of life and if you're not getting proper sleep it can really hamper your revenue stream. That being said I'm a grinder that will do everything necessary to be able to sleep less. This means eating right and reducing stress levels and one could always sleep 7-8 hours on weekends. I'm sleeping three to four to seven hours at different times anyway so a specific sleep pattern would only help me if I use it consistently. Time is money. Godspeed.