Mentoring for the “Flat Broke”

[jhongren]

Hi Tiffany,

The "BUT" comes in the form of emotional aspect.

The fear, the procrastination, the not-knowing how to do,
the "i feel i am not good enough"....

It is easy to present everything, even on a silver platter...
and showing in points form, step-by-step process...

"BUT" the thing is....the motivation of the "person"
to do it and to break through walls of fears, procrastination....

John

[aquablue]

[QUOTE=Michael Oksa;1124418]This is one of the methods I have used extensively in my coaching. In theory, it sounds great; in practice, here are a few observations:

1. When the person doing the "work" doesn't see the immediate benefit, they tend to lose interest VERY quickly.

2. Some newer people feel like you are enslaving them to do your dirty work. I believe this comes from ignorance or a lack of trust in IM.

3. They have a sense of entitlement.

4. They just want the instant gratification, and once work of any type enters the picture, they mysteriously disappear.

5. Some start off very well, make bold claims of being willing to do "whatever it takes", etc. But once reality hits, they make excuses about why certain assignments weren't done.

So, there are a few big "BUTS".

Perhaps some of the above qualities could be weeded out by a very specific screening process? A potential "mentee" might be asked to prove him/herself by submissions of written work, or answering a questionaire, etc.

I think it's a great idea, Tiffany. There are people worth their salt who would truly appreciate an opportunity such as this, and work hard to achieve success, and "pay their way".

[TiffanyDow]

Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy

I've tried this many times. I'm not saying it can't be done,
I've yet to find a way to make it work and not sure I want to at
this point.

Too much therapy, cohersing, convincing, etc... A whole lot of time
is wasted just dealing with their head issues while what really needs
to be done is not getting done.

Too many of the people came back with,
My dog got sick, can't do this.
Oh this is sooo boring.
Sorry, not into submitting articles, etc...

Where's the leverage to get the commitment needed from them
to succeed?

Make they pay? But if it's with their labor, it's too easy to give up.

Working with people that are hard up, dead broke, no business sense,
holds the entitlement believe, victim mentality, etc...
depresses me to the point of wanting to take meds.

Now not ALL people new to IM are like this. I understand that and also
know I'm stylizing, but for the most part, this is my personal experience.

Interestingly, I found a new distinction that motivates the crap out of
clients.

Project completion date is xxx. If you do not meet that date because of
a story (Excuse) the 200 dollars in escrow goes to a golf
party I'll have and you're not welcome to join. This WORKS!!!! So good
I'm sharing it here.

Getting myself or others to take action is all about leverage.

Where's the leverage for the intern?

I'm sure there are people here that can add to this thread and you
may come up with a real good model as a result to test but...

I don't know Tiff, I've not been very successful at it... Besides helping you
but you were not Flat broke and you work like a farm horse (At least at
the time :P)


Craig

LOL I was about to say, "What made you take a chance on ME, Craig?" Seriously - think back. You didn't know me. I will forever be indebted to you because there's no way I would have asked anyone to mentor me.

You just saw something in me and approached me. Maybe that's the way to go - maybe I'll see something in someone. I would have given up had you not reached out and because you did that - it makes me want to pay it forward so someone else can experience what I did with you. It was literally life changing.

And I am LOLing at the golf party - I hope I'm invited - I'll outdrive you even with your shiny new set of Taylor Mades!
tiff

[Lance K]

For someone that's flat broke, your first several mentoring contacts would likely need to be spent hammering home the importance of mindset and working on a paradigm shift.

But I'm sure it could work if you have a well structured system, communicate well, and have checks and balances in place to review the arrangement at specific intervals.

[Kevin Regier]

I think it is a very good idea and would be very interested in being Mentored. I am not flat broke but do not have money for a mentor, but do have enough money to afford some IM basics.

Please PM me I am very interested.

[GainRealWealth]

I think it's a good idea but would not allow them access to sensitive areas

[Aljiro]

I wholeheartedly agree with the concepts sent out by Tiffany Dow

This would be real good for everyone as long as no foul play is involved.

[Kevin Regier]

Originally Posted by GainRealWealth.com

I think it's a good idea but would not allow them access to sensitive areas

What do you mean sensitive areas??? If it is too sensitive for public ears you can PM me.

[Jeannie Crabtree]

Tiffany, I have exchanged consulting of a different kind in the past for some work done and it never came out well for me that I can remember. Here are a couple thoughts.

1. Money value needs to be assigned on both the consulting and how much the work of person you are teaching is worth. Otherwise, you will likely come out on the short end of the stick. (Sure, some of that could actually be paid out to the person if they wanted, but then you can't count what you paid out as part of the exchange.) What is the mentoring worth? What is their time worth.


2. Many who say yes, simply decide there is not enough in it for them when they look at how much work is involved. They are not willing to put in the time and effort, as they want to see some near immediate results for themselves. Internship takes commitment.

If you give out too much on your end, which has more value, before you get an exchange of work equaling that, you will come out on the short end. It is nice to do for a few friends and family, but it can leave you weary after a few people.

It takes time to train people and get them up to speed, as well.

It may sound harsh but again, that has been my experience.

Jeannie

[John Taylor]

Tiff,

I applaud your initiative and I think more
established and successful internet
marketers should consider taking on an
apprentice or an intern.

However, it's not without it's risks. As
Andy said in a previous post, we've been
there done that and ended up with an
unfinished Tee-Shirt or two.

From the marketers perspective...

You must be willing to set aside the time
it takes to recruit someone with the right
mindset and with the intelligence and
aptitude to do the job.

You must be willing to invest the time it
takes to properly brief, train and monitor
your intern on an ongoing basis.

You need to set SMART objectives for all
tasks so that the intern knows exactly
what is expected of them.

You need patience and understanding in
bucket loads. Remember, the intern is way
back where you were when you started
out and they need to learn the basics and
the terminology.

It's not just about doling out task after task.
You have to explain the big picture, the process
and the why.. especially the reason why they
are doing something.

You have to be willing to accept the fact that
they will screw up. Failure and mistakes are an
important part of the learning process. How you
handle failure and mistakes is probably the most
important element in managing an intern.

Motivation is also critically important.. your intern
needs feedback, they need the reassurance that
will build their confidence. Be sure to reward the
behaviour you want.

From the interns perspective..

Your "Boss" is busy, they can't offer you full time
supervision.

If you have a question, invest some time in finding
an answer for yourself before you ask the boss
to confirm what you find out.

If you don't understand something that your boss
has told you or asked you to do, seek clarification.
Don't go blindly charging off without making sure
you understand what's required.

Your time is not as valuable as your boss' time. Don't
expect a fair exchange in hours. Consider how much
business your boss could be losing while they are
helping you.

Keep your promises, don't promise what you can't
deliver and be honest. Your boss has probably heard
more lame excuses than you could even dream up.

Show some initiative and make suggestions, but be
aware that there is often a very good reason for your
boss to do it "their" way.


The internship can be very rewarding for both parties.
However, it requires a willingness to commit from both
sides and, as in any transaction, the terms of the
relationship need to be clearly established and agreed.
And, that aggreement should include what happens at
the conclusion of the relationship.

John

[Caragui]

Apprenticeship is the right word for this concept.....

Got a thread I posted offering just my skills and services for someone to "mentor" me. Like I said in the beginning of my thread, I don't have the money to pay for the mentorship but would exchange my skills and services. I didn't mention it but by doing things for my "mentor", I'd also be learning new things I can do for my business.

Before formal schooling, apprenticship was the only way to learn skills to make a living.

[scrofford]

Hi Tiffany. I am a newbie also and I think that it would be a great way to learn! I think that those that are serious (like me) would really benefit from this and go a long way. The others that are all full of talk and fluff would just fall by the wayside. Please PM me and tell me when I can start!

[Katie Rich]

Some of the posts here made me really angry!

So, because they are flat broke, they are therefore lazy and won't work. Utter rubbish!! Sometimes it is circumstances that cause the problems, not laziness, uselessness or lack of interest.

I just lost a £22,000 a year job. NOT because I was lazy, NOT because I wouldn't work, but because the firm I worked for was hit by the recession. I may not be able to market online, but I can organise an office. I can work all day and then still have the enthusiasm to continue trying to learn SEO.

What I can't do is trust some "I make a million a month, give me $10,000 and I will show you how to do the same" faceless, nameless so called guru who uses a bunch of his IM friends to give testimonials. Why shoud I trust them???

Stop being so negative, some people really do want to remove the mental block and would be more than willing to trade time, effort and energy to learn how, rather than going into debt to pay for an online course from someone who they don't know.

[John Taylor]

Katie,

Originally Posted by Katie Rich

What I can't do is trust some "I make a million a month, give me $10,000 and I will show you how to do the same" faceless, nameless so called guru who uses a bunch of his IM friends to give testimonials. Why shoud I trust them???

Stop being so negative

Take a step back, and look at that last line
in the context of the previous paragraph. ;-)

some people really do want to remove the mental block and would be more than willing to trade time, effort and energy to learn how, rather than going into debt to pay for an online course from someone who they don't know.

Yes, I agree some people really are willing
to do the work.

I'd hope you'd be willing to accept that there
are also those that aren't.

When someone takes on an intern they are
taking on an unknown quantity.

It's crucial that there's a proper selection
process to filter out the time wasters and,
yes, to filter out the lazy people. Those filters
mean that the really deserving people get the
opportunity to grow and develop under the
supervision of an "expert".


John

[wisecrone333]

I think a barter type situation is a good idea - I would use it - but I thought interns had to have a certain skill level to be chosen in the first place - for example I would use writing skills that I have in a JV is I could find someone to promote a product of mine to their list - but if I was a lousy writer then my "mentor" wouldn't actually get anything out of it.

A lot of people want to "make it" online and I am one of them - but I think any trade, whether it be for money or services needs to be a fair one on both sides to be of value for the people involved.

My 2c
Lisa

[Katie Rich]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Katie,


Take a step back, and look at that last line
in the context of the previous paragraph. ;-)

Yes, I agree some people really are willing
to do the work.

I'd hope you'd be willing to accept that there
are also those that aren't.


John

Erm, Ok, I see what you mean!

I had a paddy, sorry!!

I do accept the fact that some won't work John. But many more will. And yes, a system to weed out the useless from the useful is necessary, but on BOTH sides of the coin!

It is all down to knowing the person involved. For instance, I have followed Tiff for a long time, I know what she sends is useful, helpful and interesting. The giver needs to get to know something about the receiver and I don't really think it would take long to know if the receiver was just messing around. The first couple of assignments should prove their worth.

[tryinhere]

Originally Posted by Katie Rich

Some of the posts here made me really angry!

So, because they are flat broke, they are therefore lazy and won't work. Utter rubbish!! Sometimes it is circumstances that cause the problems, not laziness, uselessness or lack of interest. .

yes Katie been there and wish you the best working through it, this whole topic is interesting. In many cases when starting out people think they can save the world by helping to teach others and they will all be grateful.

the brutal truth after 20 years of teaching people (offline) is 99.9% of people are in the position they are in, is because of their own actions.

Some will say they want to succeed, some will want your lifestyle and after 20 years you will find that you have done nothing more than waste your time trying to help these people.

The only people you should be helping and taking on to teach are those who are already out there trying to help themselves.

the common laws of 5% or less will make it are true and the others will just drag you down, you can put the whole plan in front of them you can spell out ABC and 123, you can even wipe their backsides, but as soon as you turn your back or let go of their hand they go back to the same old ways.

There will be rough diamonds, those very people who may have nothing but a burning desire in the pit of their gut, only spend your time with these few, the rest are simply wasting your time.

OT. this forum is about all people need, the secrets are within for those who seek

[Stuart Turnbull]

These points have been raised but mentioning them again won't do any harm.

Nobody in the developed world is 'flat broke' (apart from 'down and outs' obviously) they just choose to spend their money on other things.

Without a financial investment there is no incentive to see the training through, as soon as the going gets tough the majority of people attracted to this idea will be off and doing something else (for free)

If you really want the success then you get the money to pay for the training/mentoring. Without the determination to do this you're unlikely to be successful anyway.

Sorry to be harsh here but I didn't expect anybody to teach me for free, and if I had free coaching I wouldn't have valued it and seen it through, I'd have hopped to the next 'make money online' idea as soon as I got bored or stuck.

[TiffanyDow]

Wow it's really neat to see both perspectives. The seasoned marketer who has been burned and the newbie willing to work who hates being lumped in with lazy get rich quick seekers.

I think this:

1.) IF and when I do this, I will obviously take someone from my own list (be good to your list first is my rule). And it doesn't need to be someone I already know well, but I WILL have a screening process with questions I need to know.

2.) I will not give access to everything but will set up a separate login for a blog, etc. And for instance, if they write autoresponders, I will load them and video me doing it step by step so they learn what happens with the content. That way they don't gain access to my list directly but they see it happen.

3.) It may fail. But I may try again

tiff

[Katie Rich]

Originally Posted by Stuart Turnbull

These points have been raised but mentioning them again won't do any harm.

Nobody in the developed world is 'flat broke' (apart from 'down and outs' obviously) they just choose to spend their money on other things.

Without a financial investment there is no incentive to see the training through, as soon as the going gets tough the majority of people attracted to this idea will be off and doing something else (for free)

If you really want the success then you get the money to pay for the training/mentoring. Without the determination to do this you're unlikely to be successful anyway.

Sorry to be harsh here but I didn't expect anybody to teach me for free, and if I had free coaching I wouldn't have valued it and seen it through, I'd have hopped to the next 'make money online' idea as soon as I got bored or stuck.

I disagree.

Perhaps 'flat broke' is the wrong word to use, but some people just do not have the cash to sling around to pay for the mentoring. There have to be choices and sometimes those choices must reflect the current circumstances. Do I spend $6000 on a course, or pay the mortgage. To me, having a roof over my head has to be a priority at the moment.

Where exactly so you 'get the money' to pay for a course? Credit cards? loans? Not really wise in the current financial climate.

I have never 'expected anyone to teach me for free'. My time, like many others, is valuable. I have a worth. A barter system isn't 'for free' it is trading good or time and effort for information or other goods. I appreciate that some people will think that it is just an easy ride to becoming rich. I am aware that it isn't. Anything worth having takes effort, not just cash.

So I have been around this forum for ages and am still whining? Yes, something, and I have no idea what, is blocking my success. Maybe I am useless at this, maybe my head is filled with so much rubbish that I cant implement what I know. Maybe I need a kick up the a*** !!

Please don't make the mistake of tarring everyone with the same brush.

[bobsstuff]

I have access to the most experienced mentor in IM. Any time of day or night that I have a problem or question, I can get it answered within minutes. I have the Warrior Forum.

The people asking for a mentor can be mentored by the best. They can even be proactive and self mentor by reading older posts. SEARCH is an excellent high quality mentor.

As to an experience marketer, Tiffany or anyone, taking on mentoring newbies or anyone else, the question is what is the ROI? What is the return on investment for the mentor? If you invest time or money you expect some sort of return

Is it to make a mentoring name for yourself so you can later charge for your services?
Is it to fulfill an emotional need?
Is it for the bartered services and are the newbies services an equal trade for your mentoring expertise? Your ROI could be money, product or satisfaction.
Is it worth your time for the reward you will get back?
Do you have time to hand hold a number of people for the return you are planning on?
Time is money and any new project will take time away from other projects, from free time, from family time. Do you have the time?
Is there any reason to start a new business? What are the pros and cons YOU see?
Can you justify the resources required?

ON EDIT: Also along the self mentoring line, check out this WF post:
Need a Mentor? Learn From Billionaire Sir Richard Branson

[TiffanyDow]

Originally Posted by bobsstuff

What is the return on investment for the mentor?

Q: Is it to make a mentoring name for yourself so you can later charge for your services?

A: Not for me personally.

Q: Is it to fulfill an emotional need?

A: Yes this is one. I get very emotional about the people who desperately need my help. And I want to do for someone else what Craig Desorcy did for me.

Q: Is it for the bartered services and are the newbies services an equal trade for your mentoring expertise? Your ROI could be money, product or satisfaction.

A: It wasn't but when I started brainstorming how more seasoned marketers could help more newbies, that's where I got this idea - that the mentor could get something out of it since there was no money changing hands.

Q: Is it worth your time for the reward you will get back?

A: If I helped someone succeed, YES! Because I know how good it feels when a customer who buys one of my eBooks comes to me and says, "Last year I was struggling, etc...and now I'm making $x a month - thank you SO much" etc...

Q: Do you have time to hand hold a number of people for the return you are planning on?
Time is money and any new project will take time away from other projects, from free time, from family time. Do you have the time?

A: Well the reason I worded my original post that way was because while I'm training, it WILL be building my business, so it would be working hours toward my own financial goals too.

Q: Is there any reason to start a new business? What are the pros and cons YOU see?
Can you justify the resources required?

A: I don't want to start a whole new mentoring business - just take someone(s) under my wing and once that person leaves the nest, adopt a new one.

Those are MY answers - can't speak for everyone
tiff

[Kurt]

Hey Tiff,

Why not set up some type of "survivor' type competition with 5-10 members of your list?

You give them each the same tasks to perform and elminate one each week, sharing with your list why you felt this person's performance was the weakest.

Each person must be willing to share their real name, so they can be held somewhat accountable.

The winner will win "something". Mentoring, a JV, cash, etc., and will have proven themselves. If they all drop out, you will have proven a point to your list why you don't do mentoring.

It would also be a great opportunity for you to do a little promo, using press releases, etc.

[bobsstuff]

Tiffany,
Rewards are tangible and intangible. Your reason for this is emotional pleasure and that is often a greater reward (and motivator) than money or fame.

Based on answers you have received here and ones you have already researched, what is the best way to proceed?

Again you need to think about your ROI. Your time is valuable, so how can implement this plan and still fulfill your needs? You need to implement a plan where your rewards (pleasure) are equal to the reward of those you help.

From what others have said in this thread, you need to think "outside the box" about mentoring to make this work effectively. Others have tried and given up. How can you be different?

One on one is an answer, but I believe you already do that to some degree. I get the impression you want to help as many people as possible.

[Marya_Miller]

Originally Posted by jasonl70

We're talking $6. Wash the neighbors car.. or rake somebodies yard. One person could skip dinner and save $6. If they're eating on the cheap, skip 2 during the month. Or write an article for someone on the WF. Assuming you've had some training via the internship, I bet one could find a buyer if they were to charge $6 to build a website

Seriously - if someone can not scrape together $6, then maybe they shouldn't be trying to start a business yet. I just don't believe anyone who's serious about starting an online business can not come up with $6 if they really wanted to (outside of 3rd world countries).

This is just my opinion, but someone who can't come up with $6 isn't going to be an 'action taker', since a little action-taking could generate that $6.

Generally, yes, but I think it's dangerous to assume and generalize - in fact, it reminds me of an infamous Canadian politician - actually the minister in charge of Social Assistance - who wrote a "shopping list" for people on Social Assistance during the recession of 1992, to "prove" they could live comfortably on a few hundred a month; and that they were just a bunch of "whiners". Unfortunately, he forgot a lot of things like laundry soap, toilet paper, toothpaste etc., and in doing so unwittingly demonstrated contempt for those in unfortunate circumstances.

This happens when people are well-fed and comfortable, and assume everyone else really is. They far away from knowing what it's like to live in circumstances that really are third-world dire, from no fault of their own.

Yes, Teresa is right: there are people to whom $6 does mean milk and bread -and that might be 80% of their food for the week. There are people who try internet marketing out of desperation. Case in point: disabled people who have no means of leaving their house and no other way of supporting themselves other than freelance work.

But yes, I also believe 100% in the principle of reciprocity: if you get something for free, you need to expect to "pay it forward" - or pay it back, immediately, the moment you are able. It's so true that often things that are free are not valued.

It's a dangerous mindset, even when in dire straits, to think of other people as "haves" and yourself as a "have not". It dishonors the hard work put in by the "haves" to get where they did. And the only way you're ever going to get there too is to think of yourself as a "have", while you're eating your piece of toast for supper.

To my way of thinking, it doesn't matter whether you are having trouble coming up with $6 for a dire necessity of life or you are about to vacation in the Bahamas: if you don't understand the principle of reciprocity, you will struggle a lot more for success than those who work hard, reciprocate and are as generous as possible, as soon as they can be. Even if they are flat broke.

If you get an intern like that, and a mentor who really is sharing knowledge, that sounds like a partnership sure to suit both!

[marlon]

Hi,

I tried this once.

What happened for me was everyone was in it because they wanted free training and at the end of the day not much work got performed.

Terry Dean DOES have a program like this and I think he found a way to make it work.

Marlon

[bobsstuff]

I was just over at cnn.com reading a bit of news and this article caught my eye and made me think of this thread:
Compassion fatigue -- how to protect yourself - CNN.com

It is about "Compassion fatigue" and how caring for others can adversely affect the caregiver. It is about physical health, but I see how it could apply here too.

As I read it, this thread seemed to POP out of that article. Caring for others is important and compassion saves lives, careers and more. However there is a saying in therapy that says, "Rescuers get sh _ _ on". It means that often those who care the most and try to help the most, in the end, lose out and are trampled upon by those they are trying to rescue. Try to rescue a friend in a bad relationship and your advice often causes the loss of a friend.

A mentor is a caregiver. The mentor to the "flat broke" is effectively the same as the caregiver in the article. CARE must be taken to protect yourself from becoming overwhelmed.

[JohnMcCabe]

Tiffany, I like your idea, and I hope it works out well for you.

I tried something similar in my mlm days. I had a reasonably high profile on a popular mlm forum, so I had a lot of folks with sad stories contact me. The usual offer was "pay my registration fee, and I'll make us both rich."

My standard counter-offer was to have them follow my processes and bring the leads to me. When I signed up enough people to make enough bonus money to cover the registration fee, I would turn that money over to them, no strings attached. They could sign up under me, someone else, or blow it at the track, their choice. Most of the time, that would have meant bringing me one or two new people. I could even move the people they brought me under them once they qualified, so they would benefit twice from the work.

In five years, I never had to pay off on that offer. I did come close once, and turned the bonus over anyway. Mainly, I never heard from them again.

For Teresa and others talking about how hard it is to find $6, I have three words for you - textbrokers dot com. You have Internet access, or you wouldn't be here. Even if you have trouble stringing words together, you can register for textbrokers and, and once approved, make that $6 in an hour or so writing 150 word fluff pieces.

(I do have an author account with them, and occasionally write articles when I'm in that intermediate zone between focused and Computer Solitaire.)

[Shana_Adam]

This is an excellent idea well done!

Pay it forward I say. Also some day these newbies could be your potential promoters.

I wonder if there is a skill swap section?

[dave830]

Tiffany,

You're right on the money. I think it's win-win. One of my heroes online is Terry Dean, and he's been doing this for a while. Interns : Internet Business Coaching by Terry Dean

Seems to have great results.

[robgaz2009]

Originally Posted by Zeus66

Me likey! It's a neat twist on the 'barter' method. You're exchanging your knowledge for some needed "grunt" work. No money changes hands, but BOTH of you stand to earn more from the exchange.

Another Tiffany™ breakthrough! LOL

John

I'm Zeuss66 on this. Bartering is an excellent idea!

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

The idea that everyone who is not "successful" yet is a lost cause is an insult to all those that paved the way for themselves. By your definition, successful people are those that were born into wealth and never made a single mistake to lose what they inherited.

I don't want to speak on anyones behalf - but I don't think that was suggested.

The point being made appears to be that people are ultimately responsible for their own choices, actions and outcomes.

If someone comes to you with a string of failures - of course it doesn't mean they're doomed - but their situation is a results of previous choices and actions, which they are ultimately responsible for.

With IM - if someone came to me and said I've dabbled and not been successful, I'd steer clear.

If they came and said "I've created an extensive membership site based on several months research and I've done a, b, c, d, e and f to get it making money and helping people, and I'm finding myself struggle to make it work - could you please take a look and give me some guidance?" - I would consider that a completely different situation.

People love to help those who help themselves.

Many people looking for 'mentoring' are actually just unmotivated dreamers who want you to give them their success rather than create it for themselves.

It's like people who always want to borrow money from you. You give them some the first few times - but eventually you realize that giving them money doesn't solve their problem - it's just covering up symptoms of a bigger problem and THAT is what needs resolving.

Many people take offense when you ask them to take a look at how accountable they're being for their results. No-one likes to be told their failure is their fault, but ultimately until a person takes ownership of their results and stops looking to others to lay out what they should do - they're often only capable of putting a band-aid on their symptoms and not solving the root cause.

This is one of the reasons I don't post in this forum as often as I used to. I still love helping people - but many people wanting help are like a wolf in sheeps clothing - they're leeches. They just want whatever they can get out of you as quickly as possible. They may even think they're trying to help themselves but if you look at what they do rather than what they say - you can see it for yourself.

How often have you seen a thread here saying "will someone please help me, I'm desperate and in the dog grooming niche", then a month later.... "please help me I'm desperate and in the ferret training niche".... then a few months later something else... They don't follow the advice they're given - no matter how desperate or willing they say they are.

For some people just asking someone to help them makes them feel like the problem is dealt with, it's now someone elses fault if they fail.

It can take a lot out of your trying to help people like this, especially if they turn around and complain or argue.

So, it's not as simple as it might seem - many people who genuinely look for help will not actually let you give them it, and they'll blame you when they don't get the result they wanted.
Andy

[casestudykev]

I've done this before in a similar vein:

Give the newbie a profitable turn key business and coach them on growing it. They are making net cash from day 1(usually about $50 a week). The newbie pays you based on the profit from the business.

You want to structure the deal so that if the person flakes out, you aren't left in the lurch i.e. have the domain in your name. The goal is to help the person learn enough so they can go start their own profitable businesses.

The reality is the person has to have:
>commitment
>money or intelligence or skills
money: outsource
intelligence: figure it out
skills: do it

This leaves about 1 in 10 people capable of making a go of it.

[tryinhere]

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

So yea, am I a failure? Sure. Is it my fault? Sure. Will I stay that way? Hell no! The idea that everyone who is not "successful" yet is a lost cause is an insult to all those that paved the way for themselves. By your definition, successful people are those that were born into wealth and never made a single mistake to lose what they inherited.

Hey champ, as below your post , i may have put the message across wrong, and am sorry for that, I should have said that for many years i have worked with people who "want to earn money", but all they do is talk about it, they will do some work if you hold their hand but as soon as you let go they slide back into the comfort zone and stop the walk and resume the talk.

Based on your story i do not see where your a failure, and again sorry for my poor explanation of my thoughts and experience

Pete

[MeCanX]

This is a concept I deal with...and honestly I think that people if they want to learn bad enough will find a way to pay for it...

I've had people ask me for access to my site for free because of their situation but I honestly don't feel that they will take it seriously...

The other thing is with your idea...
I think it's a really good one...

But it's a matter of this is the internet...
People say one thing and do the other...

So let's say I give them access in trade for their services...

1. I have to train them on what i need done.
2. They get all the access to my site and training.
3. They milk all your "mentoring" for all it's worth...
4. What if...They bail (because what do they have to lose?)

So they take all my time and effort and leave smarter...with me having the possibility of not getting the promised work from them.

I just recently, here in the forums, helped someone like that...they kept asking questions even though they knew that I taught everything on my training site...

They even asked why I was helping and I told them because I like to help people...but to not take advantage of my niceness...

Finally, I told them that if they wanted me to teach them more they needed to sign up for my training...to which they said they would...but have they?

Nope...

Not saying that everyone is like that...

And my intentions were truly to help them...but when someone starts milking it...that's when I refer them to my site for more training...

It's a matter of finding that fine line between being helpful and being taken advantage of.

Just had to many bad experience with people saying they would do stuff for me...and never seeing any results even though I came through on my part of the deal...

Originally Posted by Lou Diamond

Hello,
I understand the concept for the flat broke theory.
This is what it comes down to,if you do not pay you will
not use it.
I had a family member that I made pay for one of my ebooks.
If I gave it to him for free he would not have given it a second glance.
Later on he he thanked me that I made him pay for it.

[tryinhere]

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

.

@ you wont mind if i disagree, you are only a failure when you give up.

the things you talk of are nothing new, many people have been where you are in varying forms, you tell me your a fighter who wants to win, ? then keep training as from what i understand it's not how many times you get knocked down thats counts but how many times you stand up again.

[casestudykev]

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

Depending on the niche, I could definitely provide intelligence.

I'm defining intelligence here as the ability to figure out and solve any problem, its more of a general tool.

for example if I said go buy a domain and host it, an "intelligent" person that has never done this before could figure it out and get it done. Intelligence isn't necessary, but managing the lack of it is.

niche knowledge I classify more in the skill area, if its a good niche, then that information can be invaluable. Its usually pretty fast and easy to find out if a specific niche can easily generate a profit. Look at how much money is moving for that niche in a specific marketing channel.

i.e. if your niche is dog dance training videos, where does it sell and how much does it sell.

send me a PM with your niche and I'll do a quick analysis. BTW the multiple steams of income/multiple niches perspective causes a dissipation of focus. The problem with people that can maintain focus is they are usually barking up the wrong tree: no scalability, no continuity, etc.

[tryinhere]

Originally Posted by casestudykev

I'm defining intelligence here as the ability to figure out and solve any problem, its more of a general tool..

Intelligence is ?

understanding that you do not need to know everything, but to instead surround yourself with those people who do.

[Andyhenry]

Hi again,

Now, the last thing I want to do is tell you how to live your life or how you should do your IM, but here's what comes to my mind from your posts in this thread.

1 - You are focusing on your obstacles rather than opportunities.

You say you're stuck because you're waiting for approval on articles and didn't get accepted for Adsense.

Article marketing takes a LOT of articles to be really effective and profitable without other systems in place (article marketing is not a business, it's designed to support a business)

Adsense is one of the least effective ways to monetise content.

Many people have been turned down / banned by Adsense - and successfully re-applied (Google never tell anyone why they were refused - that's just the way it is) and some people even have multiple accounts.

So, don't sweat the Adsense thing, just create a simple blog with no ads and a few decent articles and try again (just make sure it doesn't have any signs of alternative monetisation).


2 - You have experience, knowledge and interest in areas which you're not doing anything about.

Mixed martial arts is getting more and more popular all the time.

People love videos (I subscribe to several Youtube channels in this niche myself since I used to box and currently do TKD). There's a LOT you could do in that niche.

UFC Tickets sell for up to $2000 - and there are ways to become an affiliate. If you had videos on Youtube getting traffic and a blog that sells them - that's just one way to make nice commissions.

You could use Yahoo Answers to answer martial arts/boxing questions and get valuable links and traffic.

There are bound to be ezines on these topics, those owners would make great affiliates for your products (info, audio, video etc.)

You could do all of this stuff with no Adsense and no articles....

There is NOTHING stopping you from moving forward except your reasons for why not.

3 - You're saying that you stick with things - but you're saying you don't know where to start. When you choose your niche - make it something you're passionate about and don't take no for answer. When something gets in your way - go around it. Adsense won't accept you - don't use Adsense. Your articles aren't accepted - write more, do other things.

Build relationships with people in your niche and find out how others are making money and what is selling and focus on those areas first.

Check Ebay - people are buying.

Check Yahoo Answers - people asking questions are your potential customers.

Use Twitter - your customers are trying to find other people into their hobby.

Find where these people hang out.

The sky is the limit with only your imagination in the way.

You get what you focus on and your focus is on your problems.

Change your mind - start looking at what you CAN do now.

Andy

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

Dog dancing? haha yes I bet that is non-competitive!

Okay I think we are starting to be on the same page. I have never hosted a domain name, but buying one I have. Since I'm the one shelling out the money to buy the domain and host it...I think that being "upselled" requires less intelligence than a ditzy blonde with daddy's credit card. So your definition of intelligence might be a bit beyond that, but I get it. Problem solving I can be very good at, but only when the dizziness of "what is IM" wears off haha!

I have general knowledge on a few topics. American Politics, Fitness, Long distance Running, Weight Lifting, Mixed Martial Arts, and of course Boxing.

At the very core of my queries is my inability to decipher what niche to pursue and what method to capitalize on it.

For instance: I have a passion for all the above topics, but as far as writing goes, politics takes a cake. By all indications, politics is WAY too competitive and ads produce next to nothing because there are little products out there to market to political junkies as a whole.

So I know I could go ahead and produce a blog with adsense, which is why I singed up for adsense, even thought I was declined as mentioned earlier.

(remember the part about taking "action"?)

So I wrote a good article and posted it on ezinearticles on a nice little niche that I was interested in. It will take 7-10 days to get an answer.

(once again, someone told me to write an article and I did just that)

So I thought that maby while those are are the backburner, I'll find ways to generate traffic to those ideas. In the mean time, I'll write another article.

(so guess what? I did just that)

So now that brings us to where we are today. I have everything waiting on approvals and dealing with rejections. I have no real way to guide myself, other than to keep writing about "something." It gets to the point that I think I would be better off writing for someone else, because at least it benefits SOMEONE.

Does that make any sense? I'm going to work to spin my wheels helping nobody, or I'm going to work (notice that word...indicating a willingness) to help someone else make money and see how I can apply it to myself.

I hope that makes sense. I know I am really long-winded right now but I see the opportunity for myself and others and I just want to push the idea to the point that everyone at least recognizes me for what I am...a hard, relentless worker who will not quit when the going gets rough.

[casestudykev]

Let me throw out a few things

>You will be rewarded based on the problem you solve and who you solve it for.
Got a cancer cure for rich people?


>American Politics, Fitness, Long distance Running, Weight Lifting, Mixed Martial Arts, and of course Boxing.
each of these have problems people are willing to pay to solve, some questions to ask are:
how much will they pay for problem x?
how many will pay?
how competitive is it (in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king)?

>Way over 90% of what people say is either wrong or not applicable to you

>almost everyone misses the significance of this point, it takes about 200 to 1000 hours to be good at one marketing channel; you want to be good at article marketing? The its going to take over 3 months or so doing it every day.

If you know a marketing channel, you will know if product x has a chance to sell in that channel before you do anything else.

[Andy1750]

Hi Tiffany,

It's normally easier and quicker to do something yourself than it is to teach someone else how to do it from scratch (unless of course you are training someone to work for you on a long term basis). Sure, there will be exceptions, but this is the general case and therein lies the problem.

Mentoring for free takes a lot of time and effort and I would personally feel GUILTY devoting so much time helping strangers that generating wealth and security from my family and those closest to me. And if I have anything to spare I would prefer to give it to those that truly need it than those that are struggling to make money online.

I would never personally consider mentoring the flat broke without a return that exceeds that which I could earn from devoting that time to my internet marketing efforts. Why should I PAY people to learn? In fact I think that this applies to most people. I can't recall seeing anything valuable in the internet marketing world that wasn't focussed on making money from others, building a reputation, promoting an affiliate offer, capturing an email address, including a signature link or backlink or hoping to learn something from others in return. And, on top of that, I think that you'll find that the majority of the world's population would probably come under the definition of flat broke. And, if I need to outsource something it would be cheaper to outsource it someone that knows what they are doing than spending my valuable time teaching them how to do it.

Fortunately or unfortunately we live in a capitalist society and very few will do anything that involves operating at a loss or at a reduced return. This is exactly how it is in the wealth generating sector of society.

If you are prepared to operate at a loss to help others (or are able to establish a system that enables mutual benefit) then you have my complete admiration. However, most people's attention will be (rightly in my opinion) focussed on themselves and those closest to them - they will have no interest in strangers unless there is something to gain.

I don't think it will ever be possible to develop a free mentoring program that is mutually profitable. If that were the case I would assume that in the many years since the industrial revolution it would have become common business practice.

Nevertheless, if you think it's possible then go for it! It would be an extraordinary achievement.

Andy

[debra]

I can see where is could work for others that aren't neccessarily noobs and flat broke.

What about the more experienced but flat broke?

For instance, I have Website Content Wizard. I've had it since it first came out. Now I have the latest version too. (oh...joy me)

Now that sounds all great and everything...but I haven't a clue how to set it up right to do me the most good. I've watched the videos, read the instructions but...I open it up to create Blocks and I go into straight brain fart.

I have skills...advanced skills but I can't setup blocks in WCW worth a darn.

So...I think a system like you are commenting about would be great.

And...remember that mentoring doesn't have to be limited to just the processes of a sale.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by debra

I can see where is could work for others that aren't neccessarily noobs and flat broke.

What about the more experienced but flat broke?

For instance, I have Website Content Wizard. I've had it since it first came out. Now I have the latest version too. (oh...joy me)

Now that sounds all great and everything...but I haven't a clue how to set it up right to do me the most good. I've watched the videos, read the instructions but...I open it up to create Blocks and I go into straight brain fart.

I have skills...advanced skills but I can't setup blocks in WCW worth a darn.

So...I think a system like you are commenting about would be great.

And...remember that mentoring doesn't have to be limited to just the processes of a sale.

WCW is just a tool that should be part of an overall strategy. Dave's a great guy and his tools are good, but you need to either - spend the time to learn it (just keep playing and testing until you get it), or do something else.

think of it like your driving test - you need it in order to go places, but you wouldn't dream of giving up just because it's difficult for a while.

[debra]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

WCW is just a tool that should be part of an overall strategy. Dave's a great guy and his tools are good, but you need to either - spend the time to learn it (just keep playing and testing until you get it), or do something else.

think of it like your driving test - you need it in order to go places, but you wouldn't dream of giving up just because it's difficult for a while.

Giving Up? nah...no way. Not in my nature.

I have no doubt that I'll get there...quicker just sounds a whole lot better.

I have plans to create some kick butt link wheels and WCW fits into those plans.

What I need to do is find someone that has mastered the workings of the WCW concept because I'm just having trouble getting my head wrapped around it. For the right person...I wouldn't mind creating demographic link wheels for them too.

[David Hooper]

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

WHAT IF….

Flat broke newbies went to a more seasoned marketer and worked as an INTERN – getting taught the lessons they need for FREE in exchange for doing the work FOR the marketer teaching them.

Too much work. It's easier to hire it out.

The reality of this business is a lot less fun than the fantasy. Most people don't really want to do what it takes to do well.

[VegasVince]

Soliciting the "flat broke" is a recipe for disaster in my opinion....although Tiffany's heart is in the right place along with others I'm sure.

I personally think that the vast majority of people who fit the "flat broke" category....deserve to be there.

There...I said it. I also believe it.

Because in most cases..."flat broke" equates to a mindset that delivers these sheep exactly what they expect out of life....NOTHING. They reap what they sow.

Why would I ever joint venture with "that"?

These "victims" use Warriors with big hearts like vampires..and they use you as a built in excuse to fail...by claiming to "try."

But ultimately they want YOU to do it for them...so when it comes time to go out and do it for themselves...they can have someone to blame..because they have no intention of ever doing anything other then remaining at the bottom of the barrel.

For victims....it's often easier to remain "flat broke" then it is to take the necessary action to break out...and become "free."

I'm not interested in "understanding" these people...I avoid them like the plague..cuz I value my life too much to hang with low energy people.

And yeah....a good majority of the broke suckers in this world...deep down....want to be right where they are..BROKE!

Cuz being broke...gives them the shot of cocaine they need--- in the form of pity from others. I don't participate in that.

For most of the lemmings.... it's easier to remain a victim rather then become a victor.

Much easier to dive off the cliff...then sell the parachute to the losers diving to their deaths.

I personally wouldn't waste one second of time.... or one dime of money on this segment of society....who exist rather then live---playing the role of "victim."

Got no use for 'em. Sure as hell don't trust 'em.

With that said.....there is a small minority of peeps out there right now...... who are getting their asses kicked by life....but these same people keep there chin up...and their focus always moving forward.

These people are hungry!

These people aint got time to bleed or worry about being victims..cuz they are too busy trying to climb out of the hole...cuz they know deep down it aint where they belong.

These type of people I will always help...and I don't need to seek them out...they find me.

That's the difference between a loser....and someone willing to willing change.

A true Warrior goes out and finds a mentor....he doesn't wait for the offer to fall in his broke ass lap!

That's the difference between a genuine player who wants to better his or life.....and a victim....waiting for the next guru to toss a free carat his or her way.

Want an example of a site that is filled with people who keep their chin up even when they happen to live in the wrong zip code?

Want to see examples of people I would help? And do?

Check out the link Allen Says has in his signature some day....cuz the entrepreneurs you find in that joint aint exactly living a picnic...but they have a hell of a lot more balls and ambition then 95% of the victims that show up in this part of the forum all to eager for a free handout.

Kiva - Loans that change lives


I recently did a barter workshop here on the Warrior Forum....Liberation 101.

Rule number one of the workshop?

"No victims in my class". I meant it.

That's one of the nice parts about being Vegas Vince. You don't ever have to worry about being politically correct or pissing off the masses...cuz I don't care...never have.

Those who reach out to me.....will always get help.

Those I have to reach out to.....usually get a slap in the face...and that's as it should be.

Qualify these people....before those of you'se with big hearts...get taken for a ride..by the oldest con job out there....."help me."


xxx Vegas Vince

[HeySal]

Tiffany - it's a good idea in principal, but the factor you are missing is time. Someone flat broke is stressing over keeping their electric on long enough to get some funding in, not lounging around deciding to learn a new trick. They aren't going to perceive the value if it's not earning directly for THEM and doing it right away unless they have someone backing their bills for them.

You'd stand a better chance helping them build something that can start earning for THEM right away, with a 50/50 on the project.

If this was already said, then let this serve as a second for the first. LOL - Truth being, it's late and I didn't read the three pages under your post.

[Steven W Johnson]

Ok, it's a cliche, but "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" - never could. never will. Unless you are thinking Kiyosaki's Rich Dad Poor Dad quadrant when considering taking on a student, you are VERY likely to get burned...by an EMPLOYEE mindset - I find the world is 80 to 90 per cent employees, so you're up against it right out of the gate.

I get the best results when I find interns who are ALREADY getting it done. Those who just need a little focus and direction to turn up the heat. So I say "show me the money" - show me the sites, the social media presence, the articles, the blogs, the scripts they've installed, the copy they've written, the stuff they've already accomplished (even forum posts are a good indicator). It's easy - "please send me your online portfolio" or some such. If they don't have one, tell them to get one. Or give them a BIG homework assignment (no, they don't get anything for doing it from you - make them PROVE they are capable first) - if someone steps up to the plate and actually REGISTERS A DOMAIN NAME, I'll toss them some advanced hosting and see what they do with it - doesn't take very long to find out if they are in the E quadrant (employee) or the B quadrant.

I also have a secret weapon. It's called HIGH COMMISSIONS. It's soooo much more fun sharing the wealth when a mentoree is involved in helping you earn a 1 thousand or a 5 thousand dollar paycheck than when they manage to convert a few adsense clicks or a $17 clickbank commission (still awaiting the mentoree who helps earn a 15k commission - that should be a fun one - it's in my biz model)

[grumpyjacksa]

why not have the person work at a reduced rate in turn for mentoring ?

or...

get reseller hosting - and help the person with hosting, and an autoresponder...

after he or she becomes independent, it can be transferred - and the AR list can just be exported

just my 0.02c...

ps. ...i only finally "got it" while i was doing outsourced work for someone working systematically....

[TiffanyDow]

Vince - those are the people I'm talking about - the ones who seek you out. These people come to me willing to give me their firstborn - they want to learn and work. I'm not talking about people who say, "send me a business in a box."

HeySal - I agree - regarding time - I always tell people if the mortgage is due Friday, go get a job. IM isn't for that.

Steven Johnson - you just gave me an idea. Maybe I'll have them build pages using their affiliate ID so we BOTH share in the profits of our joint efforts.