Mentoring for the “Flat Broke”

[Steven W Johnson]

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

Steven Johnson - you just gave me an idea. Maybe I'll have them build pages using their affiliate ID so we BOTH share in the profits of our joint efforts.

Good idea, Tiffany. You could also set up a simple rotater script that bounced back and forth between your two affiliate IDs (if they are promoting other than your own content)

[TiffanyDow]

Originally Posted by Steven W Johnson

Good idea, Tiffany. You could also set up a simple rotater script that bounced back and forth between your two affiliate IDs (if they are promoting other than your own content)

WOOSH!

That was the sound of that technical advice flying right over my head. LOL
tiff

[Steven W Johnson]

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

That was the sound of that technical advice flying right over my head. LOL
tiff

hahaha - have a peek at this search listing for some inspiration:

Search Listings | Hot Scripts

If you don't have a "script kiddie" (often under age 18, so seek parental approval in writing) in your org, time to get one! LOL

[Achilles1963]

Wow, that would be great. I would be an intern for you Tiffany (you really are one of my heros)

[rimam1]

Did you ever watch the old "Kung Fu" series? How about Kill Bill Vol. 2?

In the old days you didn't pay some "guru" to learn their secrets. They would hand pick you, and if you're worthy, they'd give you the opportunity to learn by their masterful hands. You had to bust your chops and sacrifice everything, but at the end of your training, you are a ninja.

So this theory will work, provided it's viewed as an apprenticeship. I think it keeps the student motivated because they learn by doing for free, and the master gets the work done by the student/intern.

It's a great concept, but the mentors need to be extremely selective to make sure the student really appreciates the value of what they're getting.

[Rueann42]

I have to say something about this. Many "newbies" have been bombarded by advertising that leads them to believe they can get a lot of money really fast. All you have to do is sign up for ........ and pay your money. The hype is loud, convincing, etc., and the results are, well, often pathetic. One advertising I read stated in a matter of days, it was easy, no computer experience necessary, etc. It wasn't until I had committed to over $3000 for a course that I realized there was a disconnect between the advertising and the ultimate, inevitable reality check. I felt I had been misled, but they are not the only organization to do this. Isn't there something about "Truth in Advertising?" Anyway this is to defend newbies who have had it pounded at them about "quick riches." You have them here in the Warrior Forum also. I wonder if there is a way to clean this up.

[casestudykev]

Originally Posted by Rueann42

I have to say something about this. Many "newbies" have been bombarded by advertising that leads them to believe they can get a lot of money really fast. All you have to do is sign up for ........ and pay your money. The hype is loud, convincing, etc., and the results are, well, often pathetic. One advertising I read stated in a matter of days, it was easy, no computer experience necessary, etc. It wasn't until I had committed to over $3000 for a course that I realized there was a disconnect between the advertising and the ultimate, inevitable reality check. I felt I had been misled, but they are not the only organization to do this. Isn't there something about "Truth in Advertising?" Anyway this is to defend newbies who have had it pounded at them about "quick riches." You have them here in the Warrior Forum also. I wonder if there is a way to clean this up.

Yes there is a way to clean it up.

The real question is will the system allow it.

One simple but effective technique is to actually implement a specific product, record the process and share the results.

If there is interest I will do this.

[kfilliez]

As a 'newbie' to internet marketing, it's expensive to get in the door...i know you got to spend to make money but there is also a point to where some of the quick answer stuff would be nice to trade 'jobs' or repay in referrals verses forking over another $xx.xx to get simple but unknown tasks completed...Good idea! I don't know enough yet to utilize but down the road maybe i'll understand enough to know what questions/tasks to 'trade' or 'intern' for!

[Alice Seba]

Kelly Mccausey does a similar idea and has created an internship program for mommy bloggers. The idea is to show them about profitable blogging, but Kelly benefits from the traffic created by the interns efforts. She's been doing it for a while and it seems to be working well for her.

Alice

[Jaysmyne]

Due to the fact that I'm in school and music is a passion of mine, I've been working in the music industry as an unpaid intern for the last 4years, the information I've learned at these internships has been very valuable.

I would love to do the same with Internet Marketing but, I'm more experienced than a newbie, more intermediate.....

Interships are great to give out especially if the person is willing to learn, reliable and communicates with you.

Quite personally, I believe it is important to keep it professional and that way you don't get any headaches dealing with someone else's head issues or lost job issue.

[Yogini]

I am wondering if individual mentoring is actually necessary for a new person. With the precision of making videos, it seems that a membership site that goes through steps thoroughly and step by step to duplicate the seasoned marketer's success can be a very good learning tool. For instance, Geoff Shaw (opoqo) has a wso that goes step by step via videos on how to use blogger to make money. He has a system that can be laid out in sequential videos and teaches it from keyword research to post writing and generating traffic. I am sure there are other systems that are done via video and in great detail, but this is one I am familiar with and am impressed by.

An inexpensive wso that is step by step can be a good way to give back to others and there can also be the option of personal mentoring via bartering down the road. However, this way the flat broke newbie can be making money more quickly than doing tasks in a mentoring setting where the tasks are done for the marketer initially.

Debbie

[jamesburchill]

Morning Tiffany

My 2 cents worth for you (random-ish thoughts...)

I think it was Freud who was asked, "why do you make your patients pay?" - his reply "Because they don't get better otherwise." Evidently this speaks to the issue of commitment and 'skin in the game' - something vested to lose keeps people focused.

Regarding selection, YUP... this is key. Recruiting is a tough gig because it requires us to 'discriminate' between one person and another. And YES... I mean discriminate on PROPER grounds - nothing dopey like color, age and so forth. The comments about making the candidates deselect themselves is definitely in your best interests otherwise you'll be drowning in the minutia!

I should say I like the idea and have piloted it myself a few times in the past. I typically keep a portion of my time set aside for tithing, and I consider investing in someone who wants my help as tithing too.

I enjoy automating much of what I do and when possible put folks through a system so I can focus on other things and step up to help them when I am needed most - not for every little question. The whole critical inch idea - you know.

Another thought you might like is this, I'm involved in some NON Internet Marketing businesses and while I get a fair amount of folks asking for my help for free, I figured out that I could give them what they wanted in exchange for something that would help me to. Case in point a network marketing program I started working with earlier this year. In exchange for joining my network and working the system, I am giving people access to ALL my Internet Marketing training for free. It helps them and it helps me.

There are a few caveats as you might expect, but these are my first thoughts on the subject. In principal a good idea and one that can reward both parties when trust and fairness are in play.

PS. A long time ago I wrote and marketed one of my first e-products to the 'flat broke' market. It was huge, I built a big list... and SOLD NOTHING - LOL. Doh! I'd forgotten a cardinal rule, finding a market, reaching a market - sure they were key ... but ensuring the market had the means to buy what I was offering was something I missed back then. What a dope!!! Oh well, we learn ;-)

[AyaImmortal]

I think this is a great idea. Actually, I should consider doing this myself lol

[M Thompson]

I've been doing mentoring for about a year now. I've mostly had people who pay me to mentor them but I have mentored two people who emailed me and said they were flat broke and could they pay me when the made money.

I was more than happy to help them out on the understanding that they had no obligation to pay, I didn't want them to feel beholden to me.

Both people gave up after about a week and never got back to me. I was more than happy to give them as much help as i could even going so far as to tell them some of my best niches so they could build up income quickly.

Unfortunatly I do believe that some people just want to be given everything and not have to work at it. The most successful people I have mentored have all seeemd to be the ones that stuggled to find time and money but were prepared to sacrifice things to build for the future.

I think if i was to take on any free clients again I'd give them a blueprint and tell them to go out and make $5 using it. when they could show me they could do that then I'd happily take them to the next level.

I have given up mentoring for the time being as I've lost my enthusiasm for it.I'd rather give free tips and advice on my blog and in my forums.

I hope this hasn't come across as hard hearted I've just had some disapointing experiences.

[Steven W Johnson]

Originally Posted by jamesburchill

Case in point a network marketing program I started working with earlier this year. In exchange for joining my network and working the system, I am giving people access to ALL my Internet Marketing training for free. It helps them and it helps me.

BINGO James!

It's VASTLY easier to justify giving up your own hard-won expertise when the recipient is part of your MARKETING ORGANIZATION, and you stand to benefit over the long haul from their success than when you are ponying it up to someone off the street, even if they might become a customer. The difference (not just financially) is night and day, because all of a sudden, you are building a long-term strategic alliance that isn't easily severed.

It's actually FUN when you give it away to someone IN A DIFFERENT HEMISPHERE, never having met them in person, and then, sometimes even YEARS later, like some karmic/cosmic event, it all comes roaring back to you.

[Jaysmyne]

I felt compelled to post here after posting my thread here:

Sponsoring a NEWBIE! {Internship Opportunity}

I'm going to be 100% honest in saying, I did contact Tiffany and told her I'd love to intern for her even though I wasn't flat broke....infact I have quite a stable amount of information I wouldn't require much "TEACHING"

THE REASON I contacted Tiffany was because she mentioned some aspects of IM that I want to learn more about and being a firm believer that internships are great to learn with, I sent her the message.

I did receive a reply from Tiffany and after that I decided to focus on my OWN projects and possibly give back to the community I've been involved in for so long due to the fact I felt I too could benefit a newbie...but clearly people are VERY unappreciative, because my post count is low, I am not credible, because I ask questions, I don't know enough to provide a newbie with something valuable. I've been severely attacked and it just leads me to believe that people are rude, obnoxious and that I should not put offers out there because they WILL be attacked.

Unfortunately people are short sighted, especially newbies (look at the "gurus" attacking my thread, they can't really see past their noses) and this experience leads me to believe that offering a virtual internship on the Warrior Forum or any other forum might be a bad idea.

People WILL Take advantage of a kind heart. They WILL rip it apart and they WILL try to destroy.

The only reason I say it might be a bad idea is because regardless of the negative feedback I've received from my offer, is that if one person is genuine and sends me a message, and we build a working relationship.....then it makes it all worth it!

Its just something to think about.

Tiffany wont have an issue with people disputing her experience, because of her high post count, but sometimes seeing past your nose is important, and when you find a majority of people doing that on a particular forum you begin to wonder if mentoring the flat broke is really a good idea.

[debra]

Originally Posted by Jaysmyne

I felt compelled to post here after posting my thread here:

Sponsoring a NEWBIE! {Internship Opportunity}

I'm going to be 100% honest in saying, I did contact Tiffany and told her I'd love to intern for her even though I wasn't flat broke....infact I have quite a stable amount of information I wouldn't require much "TEACHING"

THE REASON I contacted Tiffany was because she mentioned some aspects of IM that I want to learn more about and being a firm believer that internships are great to learn with, I sent her the message.

I did receive a reply from Tiffany and after that I decided to focus on my OWN projects and possibly give back to the community I've been involved in for so long due to the fact I felt I too could benefit a newbie...but clearly people are VERY unappreciative, because my post count is low, I am not credible, because I ask questions, I don't know enough to provide a newbie with something valuable. I've been severely attacked and it just leads me to believe that people are rude, obnoxious and that I should not put offers out there because they WILL be attacked.

Unfortunately people are short sighted, especially newbies (look at the "gurus" attacking my thread, they can't really see past their noses) and this experience leads me to believe that offering a virtual internship on the Warrior Forum or any other forum might be a bad idea.

People WILL Take advantage of a kind heart. They WILL rip it apart and they WILL try to destroy.

The only reason I say it might be a bad idea is because regardless of the negative feedback I've received from my offer, is that if one person is genuine and sends me a message, and we build a working relationship.....then it makes it all worth it!

Its just something to think about.

Tiffany wont have an issue with people disputing her experience, because of her high post count, but sometimes seeing past your nose is important, and when you find a majority of people doing that on a particular forum you begin to wonder if mentoring the flat broke is really a good idea.

This is just my opinion and experiences.

Do you know "Why" people react negetivley like they do in a case like this?

Because they are scared to face the reality that they are just as vulnerable as a newbie! I firmly believe that "Gurus" are just as vulnerable as noobs. And, thier egos couldn't handle the shock.

We all have something to learn...me included. It's those that are willing to accept new ideas that will make it further than the other 99% left behind.

I remember when I first came to this forum. I already knew a lot. That's what DeVry was for. But...I was also to intimindated to speak up because I had no post count to determine my reliability "score".

That's a shame because reading through the posts just today...I learned something new and benefitual from someone that had a post of 21. Now, go figure, imagine learning something positive from a noob.

That's what makes this forum WORK and it's GREAT...despite the occassional backlash of negative attitudes.

Now that my rant is over...I'll wait to be bashed too.

[Steven D Smith]

Jasmyne hang in there. A very large part of internet marketing is dealing with negative things. Internet marketing is based on testing and reacting. I actually liie your plan quite a bit.

Don't let the negative response get you down.

Steve

[Jaysmyne]

Thanks Debra,

Its okay to be critical of an offer, but PEOPLE need to do RESEARCH and not assume. I'm a huge supporter of playing devil's advocate and asking questions, but not in ignorance. People need to peel the onion layers and suffer a bit (research) and make an educated assumption based on the factors at hand. Now, with that said someone in that thread went though my posts and degraded me for being happy about $3.50 daily earning on one of my sites, as well as a few other things and told me if I really wanted to help I should stick to teaching only the basics, now I admire this person they took the time to read my threads, but what they did not do was understand the context of them.

Yah I'm excited about a $3.50 daily earning, especailly from adsense alone! That PROVES I know how to get to a good stable earning point, as for teaching the basics, yah I know the basics.

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, I just got so aggravated and thought it might be a word to the wise when hiring on an intern:

MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT TAKEN ADVANTAGE
MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF AN INTERN

[Matt Fulger]

I think you have a great idea Tiffany!

Also, I wanted to second the notion that one of the reasons a LOT of the
newbies tend to be lazy is because of the BS marketing that comes out
of every email they see in their inbox.

Sure, some of them simply have the victim mindset and choose to live
the life of a victim. But the fact is, I see ads on a daily basis talking
about how EASY it is to INSTANTLY make money w/o lifting a finger.

Then the sellers wonder why it is that even their paying clients don't
get off their asses and DO SOMETHING. Why aren't they taking any
ACTION? Hasn't it ever occurred to these people that it may have
something to do with the fact that they TOLD them they wouldn't
have to do anything aside from buy their product?

So I think that some of those complaining about the lazy mindset
should quit promoting the whole idea that you don't have to do
anything in order to be successful.

It seems to me that many of the marketers have NO PROBLEMS lying
to people just to make a sale.

[Ray Erdmann]

Originally Posted by Yogini

I am wondering if individual mentoring is actually necessary for a new person. With the precision of making videos, it seems that a membership site that goes through steps thoroughly and step by step to duplicate the seasoned marketer's success can be a very good learning tool. For instance, Geoff Shaw (opoqo) has a wso that goes step by step via videos on how to use blogger to make money. He has a system that can be laid out in sequential videos and teaches it from keyword research to post writing and generating traffic. I am sure there are other systems that are done via video and in great detail, but this is one I am familiar with and am impressed by.

An inexpensive wso that is step by step can be a good way to give back to others and there can also be the option of personal mentoring via bartering down the road. However, this way the flat broke newbie can be making money more quickly than doing tasks in a mentoring setting where the tasks are done for the marketer initially.

Debbie

Debbie,

This is a great post and I would just like to add the following:

1) Find a way to allow the 'flat broke person' to join for FREE

2) Have something like an 'escrow service' setup, which is where all the monies earned are deposited into that the 'newbie' generates by 'duplicating the very steps' the 'tutor' has taught. This money is then shared 50/50 between 'tutor' and 'newbie' for a pre-determined amount of time. Weeks/months...whatever....

Tutor gets repaid for their time/effort and newbie gets paid as well..albeit not the full amount, but what they learn and how they learn it will be something of greater value at a later date/time in their own business.

3) Once 'newbie' has reached a particular dollar figure per month, 'tutor' assigns escrow account over to 'newbie' and the newbie continues to reap the 'teachings' and 'knowledge' as laid out by the 'tutor' for as long as they continue to sustain that particular income stream.

I can't see why no one is going this route. I can see where some posters are stating their previous 'failure rate', but do you really want us to BELIEVE that the reason why so-and-so quit was 100% because of THEM..and not maybe YOUR inability to actually 'teach' someone or properly communicate to them in another tone other then the "hey...I'm a guru, so I know what I'm talking about?"

Pffffftttt..yeah..sure! Sorry, but I don't always believe that a quitter always quits because it was THEIR decision to quit..sometimes, they're induced to quit because of the guidance they're getting from the tutor...if that makes sense?

[Ray Erdmann]

Originally Posted by Jaysmyne

I felt compelled to post here after posting my thread here:

Sponsoring a NEWBIE! {Internship Opportunity}

Thread no longer exists...looks like it got removed for one reason or another...

[Justin Jordan]

Originally Posted by Kurt

One year of HS basketball, we had 45 kids try out for the team that would only have 13 players. Our coach hated cutting kids...So the first two practices, all we did was run. Those that quit running, "cut" themselves, leaving less than half of the original 45. Instead of cutting 30+ kids, he only had to cut about 10. The others cut themselves.

My track coach did something similar - the first day we ran windsprints with him screaming at us UNTIL the number was whittled down to what he wanted. Which, now that you mention it, has probably influenced how I go about training people.

[Taylor French]

There was a fairly well-known marketer who did just this. A friend of mine joined his program. He taught everything by having his apprentices do all of the work for him. This was about two years ago. I don't remember the name of that marketer, though.

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by Teresa_C

For someone that is flat broke $6 could mean getting a gallon of milk and bread for their kids or hoping that they can make money online.

It may not be a lot of money but I'm trying to play devils advocate here and give an explanation as to my post. Unfortunately I have seen a great number of many posts on other forums or gotten emails from people who wonder how they're going to put food on the table, keep a roof over their heads or keep the electric/water on.

Maybe as someone else mentioned, offer the mentoring but also a small percentage of pay as well. If you'd normally pay an outsource company/person $100 to write 25 articles offer $25 or something.

Just throwing out an alternative "but" to Tiffs original question.

In the words of Napoleon Hill…
There is one quality that one must possess to win, and that is definiteness of purpose, the knowledge of what one wants and a burning desire to possess it.

If a person is dead broke but has a BURNING DESIRE to succeed at Internet Marketing, being broke WILL NOT STOP them…

Not having a MENTOR won’t stop them either!

Having to decide to buy milk versus a domain name, WILL NOT stop them!

Having NO knowledge about the IM business WILL NOT stop them!

Not be able to afford a $3.95 p/m hosting account WILL NOT stop them!

Not being able to afford a .99 dot info domain name WILL NOT stop them!

A wise man once said, “Where there’s a WILL, THERE is a WAY!

If a person really and I mean R-E-A-L-L-Y wants to succeed in this business or any other business for that matter, they WILL NOT allow their present circumstances (no matter how dire) dictate their tomorrow!

It boils down to this: No Excuses!

The person who really wants to do something finds a way; the other person finds an excuse. ~Author Unknown

Success is a tale of obstacles overcome, and for every obstacle overcome, an excuse not used. ~Robert Brault

@ Tiffany, you have a big heart - my only caveat would be to learn about human nature. Prior to getting into IM full time, I trained thousands in the IT field over the past 18 years and was always amazed at the excuses I heard.

Your going to either laugh or cry about this incident...

I had a young man assigned to me to train him on how to analyze DSL, T1s, T3s, and how to perform head to head testing with engineers. The man was married with kids, had a mortgage and a car note. Walking in the door, he was paid $27.50 p/h. Overtime was time and a half the first five hours. Double time - hours six through ten and every hour after the eleventh hour was double time and a half.

The company gave all employees: stocks, stock options, full medical and dental, sick days, comp days, and personal days. Plus they paid for ANY IT certifications and outside education from established .edu institutions.

At least twice a week they bought employees catered lunch. This man looked me in the eyes right after he started and said, "This is the best job I've ever had."

He hadn't worked a full week on the job before showing up late for work!

In a two week span, he showed up for work late three times.

By the time we rolled into the end of week three, I had seen enough! Late five times, surfing the Internet when he should have been completing training modules, etc., etc.

He made it clear to me and the company that HE DIDN"T see the value of what he had. People are going to be the same with you it's just a fact of life. Let them go and move on!

[l23bc]

great words good post!

yes do not go gentle in the night! rage rage in the burning of the light "keats"

[fxmmorale]

This seems like a pretty good idea that could definitely work... maybe you could make part of the qualification process reading an internalizing the six figure education on wagenheims' blog?

Then you'll know if they're serious or not.

Just sayin...

[Ana Marie Daniels]

I think it's a brilliant idea! If I new anyone in Brisbane, Australia offering this type of mentoring I'd definitely go for it. I learn a lot online, however I don't think anything beats being there and doing it in person with someone who already is where you want to be.

[zankee]

Sounds good, however when you give something away for "free" its normally seen as garbage, why not offer them a free or $1.00 trial and a fee charged in 30 days.

Russell brunson swears by a system called "free plus shippin" essentially give away some of your best stuff but charge them a small shipping fee.

[VoodooMethods]

Mentoring 100 noobs for free can be extremely profitable if done right. Think.. you have a product you want to sell, but don't want to pay to promote it. Teach a bunch of noobs how to promote a product via articles, and tell them you'll pay them for each sale they bring. BAM, you've got 100 noobs giving you backlinks and possibly sales, and they're learning too. Everyone wins.

Oh yeah, you can also sell them the "advanced course" in the end and get more back-end commissions. The trust should and will be there by this stage, cause your list will be.. and they'll have money to spend now

[Marvin Johnston]

This looks like a great thread, so just giving it a bump!

Marvin

[jasonmorgan]

Flat broke newbies went to a more seasoned marketer and worked as an INTERN – getting taught the lessons they need for FREE in exchange for doing the work FOR the marketer teaching them.

Many times people have come to this forum asking for just that, and what typically happens?

Well, they don't receive positive replies. The responses are often negative, insulting and rude.

Some of the comments in this thread are amusing. Which is it, a good idea or ridicule the poor newbie. Make up your minds. I see a lot of posting for positive public image but lacking any true intent.

Not saying it's a good or bad idea but actions are worth more than words. If you want to help a newbie then do it.

[Marvin Johnston]

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Many times people have come to this forum asking for just that, and what typically happens?

Well, they don't receive positive replies. The responses are often negative, insulting and rude.

True enough. And that is one reason the OP appealed to me.

What I've tried to do in the past is to get people together in person, find out if there is a good fit, and go from there. It was successful for the short term, but there were no long term successes. But *I* learned .

I need to reread some of the posts in this thread as some really good points were made. Including possible trouble areas.

As I get more time, my plan is to post an ad on Craigslist with an appropriate headline to see if anyone who reads Craigslist is interested. If so, we can take it from there.

Another thought is to head over to some of the rescue missions, homeless shelters, drug/alcohol rehabilitation, etc. and find out if there is any interest there in this concept.

I still very much like this idea especially in this economy.

Marvin