Mentoring for the

15 years ago

REALLY interesting concept, Tiffany!

Thanks

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Lou Diamond

15 years ago

Hello,
I understand the concept for the flat broke theory.
This is what it comes down to,if you do not pay you will
not use it.
I had a family member that I made pay for one of my ebooks.
If I gave it to him for free he would not have given it a second glance.
Later on he he thanked me that I made him pay for it.

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TedMarlett 15 years ago

Hi Tiffany,

Nice concept. Colleges do this all the time. They require internships in order to get the degree.

The only problem I see is giving the person you don't know the information about your processes, such as log-in information. How do you "know" you can trust the person.

Most places that require an internship have the people submit a regular application with a resume and there is a follow-up on the process for hiring into the internship. On line this information can be made up and you may never really know the person who is doing the work. I suppose that requiring address and phone number would be a particular requirement.

Sure, the people do work for free, but the person giving them the work must be able to trust them in what they want them to do.

Great idea!! I can see some very useful work going on this way and people picking up what they need to know.
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MeCanX

15 years ago

This is a concept I deal with...and honestly I think that people if they want to learn bad enough will find a way to pay for it...

I've had people ask me for access to my site for free because of their situation but I honestly don't feel that they will take it seriously...

The other thing is with your idea...
I think it's a really good one...

But it's a matter of this is the internet...
People say one thing and do the other...

So let's say I give them access in trade for their services...

1. I have to train them on what i need done.
2. They get all the access to my site and training.
3. They milk all your "mentoring" for all it's worth...
4. What if...They bail (because what do they have to lose?)

So they take all my time and effort and leave smarter...with me having the possibility of not getting the promised work from them.

I just recently, here in the forums, helped someone like that...they kept asking questions even though they knew that I taught everything on my training site...

They even asked why I was helping and I told them because I like to help people...but to not take advantage of my niceness...

Finally, I told them that if they wanted me to teach them more they needed to sign up for my training...to which they said they would...but have they?

Nope...

Not saying that everyone is like that...

And my intentions were truly to help them...but when someone starts milking it...that's when I refer them to my site for more training...

It's a matter of finding that fine line between being helpful and being taken advantage of.

Just had to many bad experience with people saying they would do stuff for me...and never seeing any results even though I came through on my part of the deal...

Originally Posted by Lou Diamond

Hello,
I understand the concept for the flat broke theory.
This is what it comes down to,if you do not pay you will
not use it.
I had a family member that I made pay for one of my ebooks.
If I gave it to him for free he would not have given it a second glance.
Later on he he thanked me that I made him pay for it.

Thanks

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Ross Bowring

15 years ago

I think that's a great idea. Applying ideas from the brick 'n' mortar business world into IM can be very smart. People are already used to desiring internships.... and they know they can lead to big things. Simon Cowell started off as a tea-boy intern, for example.

Looking forward to seeing it in action.

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Kelly Verge 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ross Bowring

Simon Cowell started off as a tea-boy intern, for example.

You just had to bring up HIM.
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Roger Mayne

15 years ago

Tiffany

This is something I raised a while ago. I didn't want to come across as a freeloader, but I wanted to learn some solid strategies. Like you say, once you know how to do thes tactics, you can apply them to any site.

I would be more than happy trading my time in return for knowledge.

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Zeus66

15 years ago

Me likey! It's a neat twist on the 'barter' method. You're exchanging your knowledge for some needed "grunt" work. No money changes hands, but BOTH of you stand to earn more from the exchange.

Another Tiffany™ breakthrough! LOL

John

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robgaz2009

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Zeus66

Me likey! It's a neat twist on the 'barter' method. You're exchanging your knowledge for some needed "grunt" work. No money changes hands, but BOTH of you stand to earn more from the exchange.

Another Tiffany™ breakthrough! LOL

John

I'm Zeuss66 on this. Bartering is an excellent idea!

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Kurt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

Hey Warriors!

I was talking to a friend the other day who mentors people and he noticed many people come to him for mentoring even though they have no money. Now of course, this being part of his business, it's not feasible to mentor everyone for free. But I had a thought - let me know what yours are - pros, cons, etc. I'm trying to brainstorm a way for newbies to get help even when they're in a desperate situation.

WHAT IF....

Flat broke newbies went to a more seasoned marketer and worked as an INTERN - getting taught the lessons they need for FREE in exchange for doing the work FOR the marketer teaching them.

Let me explain...

Let's say Sally May wants me to teach her how to set up a squeeze page and link it to an autoresponder, etc. I could teach her how to do this BUT the example she'd be building would be on MY domain. She would have to upload the squeeze page, connect it to my autoresponder, add email messages in there, etc.

When we were done with the lesson, I would have another page out there as a net capturing leads and she'd have the knowledge she needs to do her OWN work in HER niche.

Or for instance, let's say they wanted to learn how to do keyword research. We teach them and have THEM replicate the process in one of our own niche markets, giving US the keyword list when they were finished - all cleaned up and ready to use, etc.

What am I missing? I feel like there's this big "BUT" that I can't see.

Tiff

Hi Tiff,

I was going to make a post about this exact subject, but never got around to it.

To be honest, I'm kind of tired of all the "I want a mentor" threads. Instead of asking, these folks need to first GIVE something. Plus, they should prove they are actually willing to do the dirty work needed before expecting help from people whose knowledge is valuable.

If they want a mentor, let them do their internships and apprenticeships first. I'm not being harsh, I'm being fair.

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Jason Moffatt 15 years ago

I've done this with people who want to learn to write copy. I basically teach them, and they write salesletters for me as they learn. It's a pretty good gig for both sides.
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TimCastleman 15 years ago

I like the idea. I wouldn't mentor anyone for free or cheap though. I find that people's commitment to something is related to the fee they pay for it.

My mom has tired every diet known to man but is having good results with the latest one. Thing is she had to pay $400 to sign up and $200 a month to be on the program.

Just yesterday I hired a personal trainer. He offered to train me for free but free has no value to me so I knew I had to pay him. Plus it keep us both committed to the process.

Maybe a half pay/half play idea might work here for you.

Oh and for people who are "broke" ... a lot of my friends are broke but they have new cars, HDTV's, gym memberships, etc. They choose to spend their money elsewhere, their loss.
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- probizzone 15 years ago
  
  Well, I think the concept is great. If an exchange/barter program is made, it should work, providing the person is morally decent. Also, if this person learns from you, you can bet they would buy any product from you down the road and give you great testimonials. I am a newbie to all of this and only my second post to the forum. Plus I am broke and morally very decent. I volunteer off the bat because I really need to make some money as quickly as possible and learn true and tried methods to make it happen.
  
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Lance K

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

I feel like there's this big "BUT" that I can't see.

Tiff, I'm pretty sure I found it...

RIGHT HERE

And I must say, you may need to get your eyes checked!

sum timez i dont spell gude.

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Valorie 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Tiff, I'm pretty sure I found it...

RIGHT HERE

And I must say, you may need to get your eyes checked!

sum timez i dont spell gude.

It took me a minute, yes, I'd say that is a big "butt".

:p

Seriously, though, I LOVE this idea. That's why when a warrior I really respect contacted me about writing, I jumped up and down and ran to my husband all excited. I wasn't all worked up for writing a penny per word, necessarily, even though money coming in is always a good thing. I was hoping I would be able to figure out what he was doing with his business by doing his writing. Frankly, I never thought about asking about an internship. That would be fall-over awesome.

Tiffany,
If you seriously decide to offer this, I'm up to send a resume. I think this is way different than giving stuff away. This would be my time, and my effort in exchange for knowledge. I think it would weed out the people who aren't willing to put in the time pretty quickly.

This is a really exciting idea.

-Valorie

P.S. I do like to think of myself as a "Writer" and I could keep a nice journal about my progress, etc. If in fact someone might like to turn the whole experiment into a product of some kind.

Just thinking out loud, here...
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thenextlevel

15 years ago

I think this would be a great thing for this flat broke newb. I want a mentor, but am very prepared to do my share!

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EndGame

15 years ago

I love this idea and think it has a lot of mileage in it.

The problem is, a lot of the people who seem to want mentoring want to earn money in the next month and don't want to do something as tiresome, boring and un-needed as working or learning for it.

I think the success of this offer/process will all come down to the person involved. You will have to find yourself carefully screening applicants and it may take some time to actually find some one motivated and determined enough to work on this basis.

Just my 2 cents but I love the concept, and the thinking, and I am sure you will do great with it. If you decide to pursue this, then let us all know how the results went.

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TiffanyLambert

15 years ago

I sure will let you know how it goes IF I do it - thanks for the input so far!

You all raised some good points - making sure I screen properly and can trust them, picking someone who isn't afraid to work, etc.

Thanks

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sahi

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

Hey Warriors!

I was talking to a friend the other day who mentors people and he noticed many people come to him for mentoring even though they have no money. Now of course, this being part of his business, it's not feasible to mentor everyone for free. But I had a thought - let me know what yours are - pros, cons, etc. I'm trying to brainstorm a way for newbies to get help even when they're in a desperate situation.

WHAT IF....

Flat broke newbies went to a more seasoned marketer and worked as an INTERN - getting taught the lessons they need for FREE in exchange for doing the work FOR the marketer teaching them.

Let me explain...

Let's say Sally May wants me to teach her how to set up a squeeze page and link it to an autoresponder, etc. I could teach her how to do this BUT the example she'd be building would be on MY domain. She would have to upload the squeeze page, connect it to my autoresponder, add email messages in there, etc.

When we were done with the lesson, I would have another page out there as a net capturing leads and she'd have the knowledge she needs to do her OWN work in HER niche.

Or for instance, let's say they wanted to learn how to do keyword research. We teach them and have THEM replicate the process in one of our own niche markets, giving US the keyword list when they were finished - all cleaned up and ready to use, etc.

What am I missing? I feel like there's this big "BUT" that I can't see.

Tiff

Well, I'm already doing it along with one of my friends in my city for the past seven months.
In the beginning we started by giving an ad in the local newspaper, and got a massive response from people who wanted to learn IM, and make some decent money online and had been scammed by some people offering to make them millionaires by teaching them adsense.:rolleyes:

We teach people on our own projects just like you have mentioned in your post, and it's mutually beneficial for both parties.

So far we have taught more than 200 people, and success rate of learning
has been 65%. Although the learning process has been slow so far but we are glad that many of them are now making some decent money online, they know the value of list building, can make minisites, squeeze pages, install scripts, and 70% of them are proficient with joomla, front page, and wordpress.

In the past 7 months, each student completed one project for us and by doing it he learned valuable skills and gained knowledge dong it.

Well all that is my personal experience, and any body can do it in his own local city, town etc.

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

This is one of the methods I have used extensively in my coaching. In theory, it sounds great; in practice, here are a few observations:

1. When the person doing the "work" doesn't see the immediate benefit, they tend to lose interest VERY quickly.

2. Some newer people feel like you are enslaving them to do your dirty work. I believe this comes from ignorance or a lack of trust in IM.

3. They have a sense of entitlement.

4. They just want the instant gratification, and once work of any type enters the picture, they mysteriously disappear.

5. Some start off very well, make bold claims of being willing to do "whatever it takes", etc. But once reality hits, they make excuses about why certain assignments weren't done.

So, there are a few big "BUTS".

That being said, I have had a few clients who continue through the process and have done oustanding work - the kind that has made THEM a lot of money.

Side note: I don't ask them to perform any tasks I can't (or won't) do myself. Nothing complicated. In fact, I usually ask for nothing more than a few articles to be writtne in exchange for continued coaching.

All the best,
Michael

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Kurt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

This is one of the methods I have used extensively in my coaching. In theory, it sounds great; in practice, here are a few observations:

1. When the person doing the "work" doesn't see the immediate benefit, they tend to lose interest VERY quickly.

2. Some newer people feel like you are enslaving them to do your dirty work. I believe this comes from ignorance or a lack of trust in IM.

3. They have a sense of entitlement.

4. They just want the instant gratification, and once work of any type enters the picture, they mysteriously disappear.

5. Some start off very well, make bold claims of being willing to do "whatever it takes", etc. But once reality hits, they make excuses about why certain assignments weren't done.

So, there are a few big "BUTS".

That being said, I have had a few clients who continue through the process and have done oustanding work - the kind that has made THEM a lot of money.

Side note: I don't ask them to perform any tasks I can't (or won't) do myself. Nothing complicated. In fact, I usually ask for nothing more than a few articles to be writtne in exchange for continued coaching.

All the best,
Michael

And this is the point of my first post: If they aren't willing to do the grunt work, they don't deserve a mentor.

One year of HS basketball, we had 45 kids try out for the team that would only have 13 players. Our coach hated cutting kids...So the first two practices, all we did was run. Those that quit running, "cut" themselves, leaving less than half of the original 45. Instead of cutting 30+ kids, he only had to cut about 10. The others cut themselves.

If someone is broke and wants private coaching, I say make them "run" and see who cuts themselves, as long as what they are doing is part of the profit-making process. Those that last will be strong players.

If you aren't willing to trade unskilled hours for skilled training, you don't deserve a mentor.

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Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago

Michael beat me to it. Great post.

Not only that, but many people who pay for mentoring don't follow through.

My last mentoring class (and the last one I'll ever do) of 20 people...only 2
people actually finished the course.

TWO.

And they paid for it.

Most people hate, and I do mean hate to do any work whatsoever.

This has been my experience for years now, which is why there is such a
high failure rate in this business.

And no, even those that say that they will do the work, many do not.

Why?

Because they find out 2 things once starting.

1. The work is hard.

or

2. The work is boring.

You can take that to the bank.
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Justin Jordan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

One year of HS basketball, we had 45 kids try out for the team that would only have 13 players. Our coach hated cutting kids...So the first two practices, all we did was run. Those that quit running, "cut" themselves, leaving less than half of the original 45. Instead of cutting 30+ kids, he only had to cut about 10. The others cut themselves.

My track coach did something similar - the first day we ran windsprints with him screaming at us UNTIL the number was whittled down to what he wanted. Which, now that you mention it, has probably influenced how I go about training people.

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Teresa Coppes 15 years ago

Michael brought up some great "but" to the scenario and I'd like to add one more as well.

When someone is flat broke and is truly wanting a mentor to guide them, willing to put in the time and effort to make it work, to learn new things under an internship - it still means they're flat broke though.

For example:

I have no money. You're willing to teach me and guide me in learning how to setup a squeeze page, a followup email list, etc. I learn a multitude of things that I otherwise didn't know and now have the tools and knowledge to go forth and put my own plan into action.

But wait, I'm still broke. I can't even afford a domain or hosting let alone the cost of aweber or getresponse for a list and let's not even go into any money to promote via PPC.

While I think it's a wonderful idea and really do hope that you go forward, chances are there will be people who won't be able to get past the "no money in their pocket" blinders. Through this forum alone there have been post after post of how to get started for free, even free responder programs, free hosting, etc - but reading through the previous posts you can see that the majority feel if they pay they'll take it more seriously. It's a bit of a catch 22.

I'll be watching your videos and posts here on WF to see where you go with this.

All the best -
Teresa
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aquablue 15 years ago

[QUOTE=Michael Oksa;1124418]This is one of the methods I have used extensively in my coaching. In theory, it sounds great; in practice, here are a few observations:

1. When the person doing the "work" doesn't see the immediate benefit, they tend to lose interest VERY quickly.

2. Some newer people feel like you are enslaving them to do your dirty work. I believe this comes from ignorance or a lack of trust in IM.

3. They have a sense of entitlement.

4. They just want the instant gratification, and once work of any type enters the picture, they mysteriously disappear.

5. Some start off very well, make bold claims of being willing to do "whatever it takes", etc. But once reality hits, they make excuses about why certain assignments weren't done.

So, there are a few big "BUTS".

Perhaps some of the above qualities could be weeded out by a very specific screening process? A potential "mentee" might be asked to prove him/herself by submissions of written work, or answering a questionaire, etc.

I think it's a great idea, Tiffany. There are people worth their salt who would truly appreciate an opportunity such as this, and work hard to achieve success, and "pay their way".
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Pipinscott

15 years ago

To all that blanket state that "free breeds apathy", sometimes you may be right. But thank God for people like Tiffany. I promise not to get on my soap box and start preaching, but it is refreshing to see someone who really wants to offer a "fishing" lesson to someone who really needs it.

Did I say someone and really enough?

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TiffanyLambert

15 years ago

Scott, you must have heard me before

Yeah I know there must be people out there who have the freebie mindset people gripe about because so many people grip about them. But the salt of the earth people I'm hearing from, I believe want to roll up their sleeves and work - just feel lost and broke (like no money for mortgage broke, not "I want a new TV" broke LOL).

My husband sometimes says, "Ignorance is bliss," and if I'm ignorant and have a rose colored glasses mentality of my customers, so be it. It keeps ME happy with humanity - it may keep me from making bigger profits but when my hand weighs more money and faith in people, there's no comparison

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Debbie Songster

15 years ago

Michael said it all
I've experienced his points even with people who have paid.

I'm now doing profit sharing - building something together where we both benefit.
Keeps the other person motivated to contribute and they learn the other skills in the process.

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Vikuna2009+ 15 years ago

Tiffany,

is this what they call "social internet entrepreneuring"? It is wonderful to read that you are actually considering this, kudos to ya' . If that is the case, I do drive a 1996 Volvo station wagon, have not had a vacation the last 5 years, do not own any expensive toys (or in-expensive) and I do not expect miracles.

Piece feed me, let me do the work, evaluate me after each assignment and I'll be a happy learner, no doubt about it :p.

PM for my first assignment, strongly looking forward to it (you mentioned squeeze page, right ).

tiffbroke.com is AVAILABLE, lol.
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Kelly Verge

15 years ago

Tiffany,

This is a great idea and really has me thinking.

I've been toying with the idea of trying to hire local college kids for content-writers. Using this model, it might be possible to have them write content as an intern (ideally in a ready-to-spin {sentence1|sentence2|sentence3} format) in exchange for instruction on what to do with this content.

Hmm...

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Darrel Hawes

15 years ago

Terry Dean has a "free intern" program:

Interns : Internet Business Coaching by Terry Dean

I'm not sure how much feedback you get, but you do learn how to do actual tasks that he uses to promote his business. Presumably, you could then take what you've learned and apply it to your own business.

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Andyhenry

15 years ago

Hi Tiff,

John Taylor and I have been around this concept a few times.

I've even tested it a couple in the past and I'm sorry to say that Michael's comments are bang-on the money.

IM is an easy business to make money in and 'most' simple strategies work with only a little common sense and a lot of action.

Most people struggle with the action part - that's why they go looking for a 'mentor'.

Now, I'm not suggesting that there are zero people who follow through, but in my experience - most of the people that say they will do anything - are looking for an easy solution to having to do any thinking or action.

They say they will do anything and perhaps they even start out well, but pretty soon - the excuses start. They get bored, or they're wondering why you won't share your best niche or website with them yet and they start questioning things and wanting to do them differently - or not at all.

It's easy for someone to promise to work 10 hours a week, but when it comes to actually doing it, the same things that stopped them doing it alone are the same things that stop them doing it with or for you.

Now, this isn't just in this context - I've been let down by more programmers than have ever actually seen projects through fully.

With a person with no money looking at starting in IM - their whole mindset is about the lack of money they perceive. That's the main thing they're focused on and once they start 'learning' from you, they quickly start wanting money to be coming in - they're not willing to finish the learning before they expect a full-time income.

In theory - it's a great idea and I have made it work a couple of times, but for 'most' people - they think their lack of money is due to outside factors and the reason they think they even need a mentor is because they haven't taken responsibility for their own results.

They're hoping they can tap into your contacts, tools, ideas, experience and not do the job properly themselves. They want money and they want it now. They're not in a position to take advice without trying to jump ahead a few steps - and that's why they're struggling to begin with.

In reality - you don't need money to make money online, so not having money is not an excuse for lack of success.

I love that you're also considering this and depending on how much time and emotion you've got to give it, you may be able to help a few people, but don't blindly expect that people will actually do what they say because it's often just not the case.

Andy

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Rueann42

15 years ago

I have to say something about this. Many "newbies" have been bombarded by advertising that leads them to believe they can get a lot of money really fast. All you have to do is sign up for ........ and pay your money. The hype is loud, convincing, etc., and the results are, well, often pathetic. One advertising I read stated in a matter of days, it was easy, no computer experience necessary, etc. It wasn't until I had committed to over $3000 for a course that I realized there was a disconnect between the advertising and the ultimate, inevitable reality check. I felt I had been misled, but they are not the only organization to do this. Isn't there something about "Truth in Advertising?" Anyway this is to defend newbies who have had it pounded at them about "quick riches." You have them here in the Warrior Forum also. I wonder if there is a way to clean this up.

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casestudykev

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Rueann42

I have to say something about this. Many "newbies" have been bombarded by advertising that leads them to believe they can get a lot of money really fast. All you have to do is sign up for ........ and pay your money. The hype is loud, convincing, etc., and the results are, well, often pathetic. One advertising I read stated in a matter of days, it was easy, no computer experience necessary, etc. It wasn't until I had committed to over $3000 for a course that I realized there was a disconnect between the advertising and the ultimate, inevitable reality check. I felt I had been misled, but they are not the only organization to do this. Isn't there something about "Truth in Advertising?" Anyway this is to defend newbies who have had it pounded at them about "quick riches." You have them here in the Warrior Forum also. I wonder if there is a way to clean this up.

Yes there is a way to clean it up.

The real question is will the system allow it.

One simple but effective technique is to actually implement a specific product, record the process and share the results.

If there is interest I will do this.

Thanks

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Bev Clement

15 years ago

We have a couple of interns for writing now. They learn and they get paid a % of anything they have written which has been sold.

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Vikuna2009+

15 years ago

If someone is broke and wants private coaching, I say make them "run" and see who cuts themselves, as long as what they are doing is part of the profit-making process. Those that last will be strong players.

If you aren't willing to trade unskilled hours for skilled training, you don't deserve a mentor.

I am, Tiffany, still waiting for your PM, lol

... running though might be a little hard since I had knee surgery a few years back. I can walk for hours though, just point me in the right direction

.

Take care, Eva

Thanks
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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Teresa_C

Michael brought up some great "but" to the scenario and I'd like to add one more as well.

When someone is flat broke and is truly wanting a mentor to guide them, willing to put in the time and effort to make it work, to learn new things under an internship - it still means they're flat broke though.

For example:

I have no money. You're willing to teach me and guide me in learning how to setup a squeeze page, a followup email list, etc. I learn a multitude of things that I otherwise didn't know and now have the tools and knowledge to go forth and put my own plan into action.

But wait, I'm still broke. I can't even afford a domain or hosting let alone the cost of aweber or getresponse for a list and let's not even go into any money to promote via PPC.

While I think it's a wonderful idea and really do hope that you go forward, chances are there will be people who won't be able to get past the "no money in their pocket" blinders. Through this forum alone there have been post after post of how to get started for free, even free responder programs, free hosting, etc - but reading through the previous posts you can see that the majority feel if they pay they'll take it more seriously. It's a bit of a catch 22.

I'll be watching your videos and posts here on WF to see where you go with this.

All the best -
Teresa

Domains: 99 cents for a .info, under $10 for .com. And thats for a year.

Hosting: what, $5 for a month? and that's hosting for unlimited domains.

$6 and you're in business.

Thanks
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Kurt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Domains: 99 cents for a .info, under $10 for .com. And thats for a year.

Hosting: what, $5 for a month? and that's hosting for unlimited domains.

$6 and you're in business.

Yep, and Blogger, Hubpages, Squidoo are free.

And after an intern proves themselves, pay them an apprentice/journeymen wage and give them some free hosting.

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Teresa Coppes

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Domains: 99 cents for a .info, under $10 for .com. And thats for a year.

Hosting: what, $5 for a month? and that's hosting for unlimited domains.

$6 and you're in business.

For someone that is flat broke $6 could mean getting a gallon of milk and bread for their kids or hoping that they can make money online.

It may not be a lot of money but I'm trying to play devils advocate here and give an explanation as to my post. Unfortunately I have seen a great number of many posts on other forums or gotten emails from people who wonder how they're going to put food on the table, keep a roof over their heads or keep the electric/water on.

Maybe as someone else mentioned, offer the mentoring but also a small percentage of pay as well. If you'd normally pay an outsource company/person $100 to write 25 articles offer $25 or something.

Just throwing out an alternative "but" to Tiffs original question.

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sebber

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Teresa_C

For someone that is flat broke $6 could mean getting a gallon of milk and bread for their kids or hoping that they can make money online.

It may not be a lot of money but I'm trying to play devils advocate here and give an explanation as to my post. Unfortunately I have seen a great number of many posts on other forums or gotten emails from people who wonder how they're going to put food on the table, keep a roof over their heads or keep the electric/water on.

Maybe as someone else mentioned, offer the mentoring but also a small percentage of pay as well. If you'd normally pay an outsource company/person $100 to write 25 articles offer $25 or something.

Just throwing out an alternative "but" to Tiffs original question.

Well, I'll start the ball rolling...

I'd be happy to register a domain, help you set up a site and Host it for you FREE of charge...

No catch...other than maybe we could learn something in the process or share it here.

I do this for a few of my friends. It would be nice to make a difference...

Thanks
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Teresa Coppes

15 years ago

Originally Posted by sebber

Well, I'll start the ball rolling...

I'd be happy to register a domain, help you set up a site and Host it for you FREE of charge...

No catch...other than maybe we could learn something in the process or share it here.

I do this for a few of my friends. It would be nice to make a difference...

I'm sorry I should've been a bit more general in my original post instead of using myself as an example. I meant "I" in a general way as to the mentality of some people, not myself personally, that $6 could be a lot of money when they're flat broke. Thank you for your offer though.

Jason - here's another for you, $6

Thanks
1 reply

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sebber

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Teresa_C

I'm sorry I should've been a bit more general in my original post instead of using myself as an example. I meant "I" in a general way as to the mentality of some people, not myself personally, that $6 could be a lot of money when they're flat broke. Thank you for your offer though.

Jason - here's another for you, $6

Oops, sorry!

I TOTALLY got the wrong end of the stick :-)

Thanks

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WritingMadwoman 15 years ago

Teresa, I hear you, for some people $6 may as well be a million!

But when you think about it, you don't even HAVE to spend any money to get started making money online. If you teach them how to get: a list of profitable keywords, a squidoo lens or hub or even a free blogger blog, and a few good clickbank or paydotcom products that go along with the keyword list, and give them an assignment to write 5 or 10 articles a week and submit them to every free directory they can find - they could be making sales quickly.

That depends on many factors of course, but hopefully the mentor would be able to guide them on writing good content, other avenues to market and drive traffic, etc.

Then when the person does start receiving payments or clickbank checks, they could invest some of their money into better tools, software, autoresponder, etc.

Just pointing out that even if they don't have a dime to their name, they can still find plenty of ways to at least get the ball rolling!

I do like your idea of paying the intern a small fee though! I think that would probably motivate many of them more because they would see an immediate benefit to doing the work, plus give them some money to invest in domains, AR, hosting and the like.

Wendy

Originally Posted by Teresa_C

For someone that is flat broke $6 could mean getting a gallon of milk and bread for their kids or hoping that they can make money online.
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Crew Chief

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Teresa_C

For someone that is flat broke $6 could mean getting a gallon of milk and bread for their kids or hoping that they can make money online.

It may not be a lot of money but I'm trying to play devils advocate here and give an explanation as to my post. Unfortunately I have seen a great number of many posts on other forums or gotten emails from people who wonder how they're going to put food on the table, keep a roof over their heads or keep the electric/water on.

Maybe as someone else mentioned, offer the mentoring but also a small percentage of pay as well. If you'd normally pay an outsource company/person $100 to write 25 articles offer $25 or something.

Just throwing out an alternative "but" to Tiffs original question.

In the words of Napoleon Hill...
There is one quality that one must possess to win, and that is definiteness of purpose, the knowledge of what one wants and a burning desire to possess it.

If a person is dead broke but has a BURNING DESIRE to succeed at Internet Marketing, being broke WILL NOT STOP them...

Not having a MENTOR won't stop them either!

Having to decide to buy milk versus a domain name, WILL NOT stop them!

Having NO knowledge about the IM business WILL NOT stop them!

Not be able to afford a $3.95 p/m hosting account WILL NOT stop them!

Not being able to afford a .99 dot info domain name WILL NOT stop them!

A wise man once said, "Where there's a WILL, THERE is a WAY!

If a person really and I mean R-E-A-L-L-Y wants to succeed in this business or any other business for that matter, they WILL NOT allow their present circumstances (no matter how dire) dictate their tomorrow!

It boils down to this: No Excuses!

The person who really wants to do something finds a way; the other person finds an excuse. ~Author Unknown

Success is a tale of obstacles overcome, and for every obstacle overcome, an excuse not used. ~Robert Brault

@ Tiffany, you have a big heart - my only caveat would be to learn about human nature. Prior to getting into IM full time, I trained thousands in the IT field over the past 18 years and was always amazed at the excuses I heard.

Your going to either laugh or cry about this incident...

I had a young man assigned to me to train him on how to analyze DSL, T1s, T3s, and how to perform head to head testing with engineers. The man was married with kids, had a mortgage and a car note. Walking in the door, he was paid $27.50 p/h. Overtime was time and a half the first five hours. Double time - hours six through ten and every hour after the eleventh hour was double time and a half.

The company gave all employees: stocks, stock options, full medical and dental, sick days, comp days, and personal days. Plus they paid for ANY IT certifications and outside education from established .edu institutions.

At least twice a week they bought employees catered lunch. This man looked me in the eyes right after he started and said, "This is the best job I've ever had."

He hadn't worked a full week on the job before showing up late for work!

In a two week span, he showed up for work late three times.

By the time we rolled into the end of week three, I had seen enough! Late five times, surfing the Internet when he should have been completing training modules, etc., etc.

He made it clear to me and the company that HE DIDN"T see the value of what he had. People are going to be the same with you it's just a fact of life. Let them go and move on!

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Crew Chief

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+

If someone is broke and wants private coaching, I say make them "run" and see who cuts themselves, as long as what they are doing is part of the profit-making process. Those that last will be strong players.

If you aren't willing to trade unskilled hours for skilled training, you don't deserve a mentor.

This statement sums up mentoring a broke person in a nutshell. I've seen people walk away from some sweet mentoring scenarios all because they felt like they were being taken advantage of; they didn't comprehend the trade off!

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sebber

15 years ago

I really like your idea, TiffanyDow and thanks for opening up this discussion...

I don't quite fall into the "flat broke" category, but I'm a chronic overspender. I have spent a fortune on my education (academic and personbal development)...

I have never been a freeloader, but I could do with someone showing me the way...

There are SO MANY products out there. So many concepts, gimmicks, products, launches can lead to jadedness...

I don't know where to start, to be honest!

My dream would be for one of the gurus to take me by the hand (metaphorically!) and show me EXACTLY how they make their fortunes, setting some dependable income streams up for me in the long run...

I think money makes money and all I would need would be that little start...

I'd also be willing to give residuals and such...I don't believe in taking without giving something back in return...

I think an *awesome* product would be a guru/IMer doing this (or setting up a product like this), literally taking someone from broke to millionaire. It could be "real-time". It would be like Mr Miyagi and Daniel San!

Seriously, imagine the tremendous PR in a marketer doing that very thing (initially) for free, and later getting 25% of the protege's future incomes...

Talk about Paying It Forward!

Or am I just off my head?!

Thanks

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Daniel Molano

15 years ago

Hey Tiffany,

I've been doing this for about 8 months now.

My first intern, who had no idea about anything Internet Marketing related, is now an SEO Expert and my Executive Vice President.

But he did work really hard for it.

The bad part is that since I do high ticket coaching/mentoring now a days, and we're fully sold out for the rest of this year, we just don't have the time to handle more interns (or clients for that matter).

But it's a brilliant win-win concept and it works extremely well with certain people.

Sometimes leverage or other types of non-monetary input can be far more valuable than cash.

- Dan Molano

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David Mcalorum

15 years ago

Oh wow, it's a very interesting theory. Obviously, as with any new innovative ideas there will be some flaws. (A couple for me would be giving a stranger in need of money access to your website, having people flake out on you, having them duplicate anythign they make and completely upstage you) But I think it may be extremely worth it to those trustworthy people that would honestly learn from you and give you the work you deserve as payment.

I'd love to help you get the idea rolling if you ever need anything!

~Grae

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TheDebtEliminator

15 years ago

Hello Tiff,

Yours is a very good idea

I would add to the student's requirement to Google things that you need information about and make up a report in Word for you to read or turn in to a eBook.

They could write articles, one for you and one for them or use 2 and 1 for the split
Using the internet to research each assigned topic

If you are teaching something else, then the articles could be bartered for your time spent with them?

All the Best

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Peggy Baron

15 years ago

Hi Tiff,
I think it's a great idea and I know you have a lot of people who have expressed interest. Give it a shot and tweak it after the first one or two.

Lee McIntylre has done this so you could talk to him. Or if you'd like to talk to one of his interns I know a couple of them.

Peggy

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Teresa_C

For someone that is flat broke $6 could mean getting a gallon of milk and bread for their kids or hoping that they can make money online.

It may not be a lot of money but I'm trying to play devils advocate here and give an explanation as to my post. Unfortunately I have seen a great number of many posts on other forums or gotten emails from people who wonder how they're going to put food on the table, keep a roof over their heads or keep the electric/water on.

Maybe as someone else mentioned, offer the mentoring but also a small percentage of pay as well. If you'd normally pay an outsource company/person $100 to write 25 articles offer $25 or something.

Just throwing out an alternative "but" to Tiffs original question.

We're talking $6. Wash the neighbors car.. or rake somebodies yard. One person could skip dinner and save $6. If they're eating on the cheap, skip 2 during the month. Or write an article for someone on the WF. Assuming you've had some training via the internship, I bet one could find a buyer if they were to charge $6 to build a website

Seriously - if someone can not scrape together $6, then maybe they shouldn't be trying to start a business yet. I just don't believe anyone who's serious about starting an online business can not come up with $6 if they really wanted to (outside of 3rd world countries).

This is just my opinion, but someone who can't come up with $6 isn't going to be an 'action taker', since a little action-taking could generate that $6.

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Marya_Miller

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonl70

We're talking $6. Wash the neighbors car.. or rake somebodies yard. One person could skip dinner and save $6. If they're eating on the cheap, skip 2 during the month. Or write an article for someone on the WF. Assuming you've had some training via the internship, I bet one could find a buyer if they were to charge $6 to build a website

Seriously - if someone can not scrape together $6, then maybe they shouldn't be trying to start a business yet. I just don't believe anyone who's serious about starting an online business can not come up with $6 if they really wanted to (outside of 3rd world countries).

This is just my opinion, but someone who can't come up with $6 isn't going to be an 'action taker', since a little action-taking could generate that $6.

Generally, yes, but I think it's dangerous to assume and generalize - in fact, it reminds me of an infamous Canadian politician - actually the minister in charge of Social Assistance - who wrote a "shopping list" for people on Social Assistance during the recession of 1992, to "prove" they could live comfortably on a few hundred a month; and that they were just a bunch of "whiners". Unfortunately, he forgot a lot of things like laundry soap, toilet paper, toothpaste etc., and in doing so unwittingly demonstrated contempt for those in unfortunate circumstances.

This happens when people are well-fed and comfortable, and assume everyone else really is. They far away from knowing what it's like to live in circumstances that really are third-world dire, from no fault of their own.

Yes, Teresa is right: there are people to whom $6 does mean milk and bread -and that might be 80% of their food for the week. There are people who try internet marketing out of desperation. Case in point: disabled people who have no means of leaving their house and no other way of supporting themselves other than freelance work.

But yes, I also believe 100% in the principle of reciprocity: if you get something for free, you need to expect to "pay it forward" - or pay it back, immediately, the moment you are able. It's so true that often things that are free are not valued.

It's a dangerous mindset, even when in dire straits, to think of other people as "haves" and yourself as a "have not". It dishonors the hard work put in by the "haves" to get where they did. And the only way you're ever going to get there too is to think of yourself as a "have", while you're eating your piece of toast for supper.

To my way of thinking, it doesn't matter whether you are having trouble coming up with $6 for a dire necessity of life or you are about to vacation in the Bahamas: if you don't understand the principle of reciprocity, you will struggle a lot more for success than those who work hard, reciprocate and are as generous as possible, as soon as they can be. Even if they are flat broke.

If you get an intern like that, and a mentor who really is sharing knowledge, that sounds like a partnership sure to suit both!

Thanks
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JohnMcCabe 15 years ago

Tiffany, I like your idea, and I hope it works out well for you.

I tried something similar in my mlm days. I had a reasonably high profile on a popular mlm forum, so I had a lot of folks with sad stories contact me. The usual offer was "pay my registration fee, and I'll make us both rich."

My standard counter-offer was to have them follow my processes and bring the leads to me. When I signed up enough people to make enough bonus money to cover the registration fee, I would turn that money over to them, no strings attached. They could sign up under me, someone else, or blow it at the track, their choice. Most of the time, that would have meant bringing me one or two new people. I could even move the people they brought me under them once they qualified, so they would benefit twice from the work.

In five years, I never had to pay off on that offer. I did come close once, and turned the bonus over anyway. Mainly, I never heard from them again.

For Teresa and others talking about how hard it is to find $6, I have three words for you - textbrokers dot com. You have Internet access, or you wouldn't be here. Even if you have trouble stringing words together, you can register for textbrokers and, and once approved, make that $6 in an hour or so writing 150 word fluff pieces.

(I do have an author account with them, and occasionally write articles when I'm in that intermediate zone between focused and Computer Solitaire.)
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jasonl70

15 years ago

lol - how many times can I type '$6" in on post!!!

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Jason_V

15 years ago

Tiffany,

This was actually already done by a former adult webmaster turned internet marketer by the name of Woody Maxim:

Why you need my intern program now

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Billee Brady Banned 15 years ago

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- VegasVince 15 years ago
  
  Soliciting the "flat broke" is a recipe for disaster in my opinion....although Tiffany's heart is in the right place along with others I'm sure.
  
  I personally think that the vast majority of people who fit the "flat broke" category....deserve to be there.
  
  There...I said it. I also believe it.
  
  Because in most cases..."flat broke" equates to a mindset that delivers these sheep exactly what they expect out of life....NOTHING. They reap what they sow.
  
  Why would I ever joint venture with "that"?
  
  These "victims" use Warriors with big hearts like vampires..and they use you as a built in excuse to fail...by claiming to "try."
  
  But ultimately they want YOU to do it for them...so when it comes time to go out and do it for themselves...they can have someone to blame..because they have no intention of ever doing anything other then remaining at the bottom of the barrel.
  
  For victims....it's often easier to remain "flat broke" then it is to take the necessary action to break out...and become "free."
  
  I'm not interested in "understanding" these people...I avoid them like the plague..cuz I value my life too much to hang with low energy people.
  
  And yeah....a good majority of the broke suckers in this world...deep down....want to be right where they are..BROKE!
  
  Cuz being broke...gives them the shot of cocaine they need--- in the form of pity from others. I don't participate in that.
  
  For most of the lemmings.... it's easier to remain a victim rather then become a victor.
  
  Much easier to dive off the cliff...then sell the parachute to the losers diving to their deaths.
  
  I personally wouldn't waste one second of time.... or one dime of money on this segment of society....who exist rather then live---playing the role of "victim."
  
  Got no use for 'em. Sure as hell don't trust 'em.
  
  With that said.....there is a small minority of peeps out there right now...... who are getting their asses kicked by life....but these same people keep there chin up...and their focus always moving forward.
  
  These people are hungry!
  
  These people aint got time to bleed or worry about being victims..cuz they are too busy trying to climb out of the hole...cuz they know deep down it aint where they belong.
  
  These type of people I will always help...and I don't need to seek them out...they find me.
  
  That's the difference between a loser....and someone willing to willing change.
  
  A true Warrior goes out and finds a mentor....he doesn't wait for the offer to fall in his broke ass lap!
  
  That's the difference between a genuine player who wants to better his or life.....and a victim....waiting for the next guru to toss a free carat his or her way.
  
  Want an example of a site that is filled with people who keep their chin up even when they happen to live in the wrong zip code?
  
  Want to see examples of people I would help? And do?
  
  Check out the link Allen Says has in his signature some day....cuz the entrepreneurs you find in that joint aint exactly living a picnic...but they have a hell of a lot more balls and ambition then 95% of the victims that show up in this part of the forum all to eager for a free handout.
  
  Kiva - Loans that change lives
  
  I recently did a barter workshop here on the Warrior Forum....Liberation 101.
  
  Rule number one of the workshop?
  
  "No victims in my class". I meant it.
  
  That's one of the nice parts about being Vegas Vince. You don't ever have to worry about being politically correct or pissing off the masses...cuz I don't care...never have.
  
  Those who reach out to me.....will always get help.
  
  Those I have to reach out to.....usually get a slap in the face...and that's as it should be.
  
  Qualify these people....before those of you'se with big hearts...get taken for a ride..by the oldest con job out there....."help me."
  
  xxx Vegas Vince
  
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Achilles1963 15 years ago

Wow, that would be great. I would be an intern for you Tiffany (you really are one of my heros)
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fxmmorale 15 years ago

This seems like a pretty good idea that could definitely work... maybe you could make part of the qualification process reading an internalizing the six figure education on wagenheims' blog?

Then you'll know if they're serious or not.

Just sayin...
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Steve Wells

15 years ago

FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE

***NEWBIE******NEWBIE******NEWBIE******NEWBIE******NEWBIE******NEWBIE***

I think this will work, as long as this is tit for tat, in other words as long as the person training doesn't try and take advantage of the newbie, like me for example.

I am perfectly willing to learn and do work in exchange for training, please PM me anyone interested in trying this out.

I would specifically like to have some kind of layout or direction as to what I am going to learn, such as squeeze page building, sales funnel, ect.... I would love to see what is involved on marketing a product and how to get it off the ground, so again please PM me, I will work for food. LOL!

***NEWBIE******NEWBIE******NEWBIE******NEWBIE******NEWBIE******NEWBIE***

-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-FLATBROKE-

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jhongren

15 years ago

Hi Tiffany,

The "BUT" comes in the form of emotional aspect.

The fear, the procrastination, the not-knowing how to do,
the "i feel i am not good enough"....

It is easy to present everything, even on a silver platter...
and showing in points form, step-by-step process...

"BUT" the thing is....the motivation of the "person"
to do it and to break through walls of fears, procrastination....

John

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TiffanyLambert

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy

I've tried this many times. I'm not saying it can't be done,
I've yet to find a way to make it work and not sure I want to at
this point.

Too much therapy, cohersing, convincing, etc... A whole lot of time
is wasted just dealing with their head issues while what really needs
to be done is not getting done.

Too many of the people came back with,
My dog got sick, can't do this.
Oh this is sooo boring.
Sorry, not into submitting articles, etc...

Where's the leverage to get the commitment needed from them
to succeed?

Make they pay? But if it's with their labor, it's too easy to give up.

Working with people that are hard up, dead broke, no business sense,
holds the entitlement believe, victim mentality, etc...
depresses me to the point of wanting to take meds.

Now not ALL people new to IM are like this. I understand that and also
know I'm stylizing, but for the most part, this is my personal experience.

Interestingly, I found a new distinction that motivates the crap out of
clients.

Project completion date is xxx. If you do not meet that date because of
a story (Excuse) the 200 dollars in escrow goes to a golf
party I'll have and you're not welcome to join. This WORKS!!!! So good
I'm sharing it here.

Getting myself or others to take action is all about leverage.

Where's the leverage for the intern?

I'm sure there are people here that can add to this thread and you
may come up with a real good model as a result to test but...

I don't know Tiff, I've not been very successful at it... Besides helping you
but you were not Flat broke and you work like a farm horse (At least at
the time

)

Craig

LOL I was about to say, "What made you take a chance on ME, Craig?" Seriously - think back. You didn't know me. I will forever be indebted to you because there's no way I would have asked anyone to mentor me.

You just saw something in me and approached me. Maybe that's the way to go - maybe I'll see something in someone. I would have given up had you not reached out and because you did that - it makes me want to pay it forward so someone else can experience what I did with you. It was literally life changing.

And I am LOLing at the golf party - I hope I'm invited - I'll outdrive you even with your shiny new set of Taylor Mades!
tiff

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Lance K 15 years ago

For someone that's flat broke, your first several mentoring contacts would likely need to be spent hammering home the importance of mindset and working on a paradigm shift.

But I'm sure it could work if you have a well structured system, communicate well, and have checks and balances in place to review the arrangement at specific intervals.
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Kevin Regier

15 years ago

I think it is a very good idea and would be very interested in being Mentored. I am not flat broke but do not have money for a mentor, but do have enough money to afford some IM basics.

Please PM me I am very interested.

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GainRealWealth

15 years ago

I think it's a good idea but would not allow them access to sensitive areas

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Kevin Regier 15 years ago

Originally Posted by GainRealWealth.com

I think it's a good idea but would not allow them access to sensitive areas

What do you mean sensitive areas??? If it is too sensitive for public ears you can PM me.
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Aljiro

15 years ago

I wholeheartedly agree with the concepts sent out by Tiffany Dow

This would be real good for everyone as long as no foul play is involved.

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Jeannie Crabtree

15 years ago

Tiffany, I have exchanged consulting of a different kind in the past for some work done and it never came out well for me that I can remember. Here are a couple thoughts.

1. Money value needs to be assigned on both the consulting and how much the work of person you are teaching is worth. Otherwise, you will likely come out on the short end of the stick. (Sure, some of that could actually be paid out to the person if they wanted, but then you can't count what you paid out as part of the exchange.) What is the mentoring worth? What is their time worth.

2. Many who say yes, simply decide there is not enough in it for them when they look at how much work is involved. They are not willing to put in the time and effort, as they want to see some near immediate results for themselves. Internship takes commitment.

If you give out too much on your end, which has more value, before you get an exchange of work equaling that, you will come out on the short end. It is nice to do for a few friends and family, but it can leave you weary after a few people.

It takes time to train people and get them up to speed, as well.

It may sound harsh but again, that has been my experience.

Jeannie

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John Taylor

15 years ago

Tiff,

I applaud your initiative and I think more
established and successful internet
marketers should consider taking on an
apprentice or an intern.

However, it's not without it's risks. As
Andy said in a previous post, we've been
there done that and ended up with an
unfinished Tee-Shirt or two.

From the marketers perspective...

You must be willing to set aside the time
it takes to recruit someone with the right
mindset and with the intelligence and
aptitude to do the job.

You must be willing to invest the time it
takes to properly brief, train and monitor
your intern on an ongoing basis.

You need to set SMART objectives for all
tasks so that the intern knows exactly
what is expected of them.

You need patience and understanding in
bucket loads. Remember, the intern is way
back where you were when you started
out and they need to learn the basics and
the terminology.

It's not just about doling out task after task.
You have to explain the big picture, the process
and the why.. especially the reason why they
are doing something.

You have to be willing to accept the fact that
they will screw up. Failure and mistakes are an
important part of the learning process. How you
handle failure and mistakes is probably the most
important element in managing an intern.

Motivation is also critically important.. your intern
needs feedback, they need the reassurance that
will build their confidence. Be sure to reward the
behaviour you want.

From the interns perspective..

Your "Boss" is busy, they can't offer you full time
supervision.

If you have a question, invest some time in finding
an answer for yourself before you ask the boss
to confirm what you find out.

If you don't understand something that your boss
has told you or asked you to do, seek clarification.
Don't go blindly charging off without making sure
you understand what's required.

Your time is not as valuable as your boss' time. Don't
expect a fair exchange in hours. Consider how much
business your boss could be losing while they are
helping you.

Keep your promises, don't promise what you can't
deliver and be honest. Your boss has probably heard
more lame excuses than you could even dream up.

Show some initiative and make suggestions, but be
aware that there is often a very good reason for your
boss to do it "their" way.

The internship can be very rewarding for both parties.
However, it requires a willingness to commit from both
sides and, as in any transaction, the terms of the
relationship need to be clearly established and agreed.
And, that aggreement should include what happens at
the conclusion of the relationship.

John

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Caragui

15 years ago

Apprenticeship is the right word for this concept.....

Got a thread I posted offering just my skills and services for someone to "mentor" me. Like I said in the beginning of my thread, I don't have the money to pay for the mentorship but would exchange my skills and services. I didn't mention it but by doing things for my "mentor", I'd also be learning new things I can do for my business.

Before formal schooling, apprenticship was the only way to learn skills to make a living.

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scrofford

15 years ago

Hi Tiffany. I am a newbie also and I think that it would be a great way to learn! I think that those that are serious (like me) would really benefit from this and go a long way. The others that are all full of talk and fluff would just fall by the wayside. Please PM me and tell me when I can start!

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Katie Rich

15 years ago

Some of the posts here made me really angry!

So, because they are flat broke, they are therefore lazy and won't work. Utter rubbish!! Sometimes it is circumstances that cause the problems, not laziness, uselessness or lack of interest.

I just lost a £22,000 a year job. NOT because I was lazy, NOT because I wouldn't work, but because the firm I worked for was hit by the recession. I may not be able to market online, but I can organise an office. I can work all day and then still have the enthusiasm to continue trying to learn SEO.

What I can't do is trust some "I make a million a month, give me $10,000 and I will show you how to do the same" faceless, nameless so called guru who uses a bunch of his IM friends to give testimonials. Why shoud I trust them???

Stop being so negative, some people really do want to remove the mental block and would be more than willing to trade time, effort and energy to learn how, rather than going into debt to pay for an online course from someone who they don't know.

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John Taylor

15 years ago

Katie,

Originally Posted by Katie Rich

What I can't do is trust some "I make a million a month, give me $10,000 and I will show you how to do the same" faceless, nameless so called guru who uses a bunch of his IM friends to give testimonials. Why shoud I trust them???

Stop being so negative

Take a step back, and look at that last line
in the context of the previous paragraph. ;-)

some people really do want to remove the mental block and would be more than willing to trade time, effort and energy to learn how, rather than going into debt to pay for an online course from someone who they don't know.

Yes, I agree some people really are willing
to do the work.

I'd hope you'd be willing to accept that there
are also those that aren't.

When someone takes on an intern they are
taking on an unknown quantity.

It's crucial that there's a proper selection
process to filter out the time wasters and,
yes, to filter out the lazy people. Those filters
mean that the really deserving people get the
opportunity to grow and develop under the
supervision of an "expert".

John

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Katie Rich

15 years ago

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Katie,

Take a step back, and look at that last line
in the context of the previous paragraph. ;-)

Yes, I agree some people really are willing
to do the work.

I'd hope you'd be willing to accept that there
are also those that aren't.

John

Erm, Ok, I see what you mean!

I had a paddy, sorry!!

I do accept the fact that some won't work John. But many more will. And yes, a system to weed out the useless from the useful is necessary, but on BOTH sides of the coin!

It is all down to knowing the person involved. For instance, I have followed Tiff for a long time, I know what she sends is useful, helpful and interesting. The giver needs to get to know something about the receiver and I don't really think it would take long to know if the receiver was just messing around. The first couple of assignments should prove their worth.

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tryinhere

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Katie Rich

Some of the posts here made me really angry!

So, because they are flat broke, they are therefore lazy and won't work. Utter rubbish!! Sometimes it is circumstances that cause the problems, not laziness, uselessness or lack of interest. .

yes Katie been there and wish you the best working through it, this whole topic is interesting. In many cases when starting out people think they can save the world by helping to teach others and they will all be grateful.

the brutal truth after 20 years of teaching people (offline) is 99.9% of people are in the position they are in, is because of their own actions.

Some will say they want to succeed, some will want your lifestyle and after 20 years you will find that you have done nothing more than waste your time trying to help these people.

The only people you should be helping and taking on to teach are those who are already out there trying to help themselves.

the common laws of 5% or less will make it are true and the others will just drag you down, you can put the whole plan in front of them you can spell out ABC and 123, you can even wipe their backsides, but as soon as you turn your back or let go of their hand they go back to the same old ways.

There will be rough diamonds, those very people who may have nothing but a burning desire in the pit of their gut, only spend your time with these few, the rest are simply wasting your time.

OT. this forum is about all people need, the secrets are within for those who seek

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Andyhenry

15 years ago

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

The idea that everyone who is not "successful" yet is a lost cause is an insult to all those that paved the way for themselves. By your definition, successful people are those that were born into wealth and never made a single mistake to lose what they inherited.

I don't want to speak on anyones behalf - but I don't think that was suggested.

The point being made appears to be that people are ultimately responsible for their own choices, actions and outcomes.

If someone comes to you with a string of failures - of course it doesn't mean they're doomed - but their situation is a results of previous choices and actions, which they are ultimately responsible for.

With IM - if someone came to me and said I've dabbled and not been successful, I'd steer clear.

If they came and said "I've created an extensive membership site based on several months research and I've done a, b, c, d, e and f to get it making money and helping people, and I'm finding myself struggle to make it work - could you please take a look and give me some guidance?" - I would consider that a completely different situation.

People love to help those who help themselves.

Many people looking for 'mentoring' are actually just unmotivated dreamers who want you to give them their success rather than create it for themselves.

It's like people who always want to borrow money from you. You give them some the first few times - but eventually you realize that giving them money doesn't solve their problem - it's just covering up symptoms of a bigger problem and THAT is what needs resolving.

Many people take offense when you ask them to take a look at how accountable they're being for their results. No-one likes to be told their failure is their fault, but ultimately until a person takes ownership of their results and stops looking to others to lay out what they should do - they're often only capable of putting a band-aid on their symptoms and not solving the root cause.

This is one of the reasons I don't post in this forum as often as I used to. I still love helping people - but many people wanting help are like a wolf in sheeps clothing - they're leeches. They just want whatever they can get out of you as quickly as possible. They may even think they're trying to help themselves but if you look at what they do rather than what they say - you can see it for yourself.

How often have you seen a thread here saying "will someone please help me, I'm desperate and in the dog grooming niche", then a month later.... "please help me I'm desperate and in the ferret training niche".... then a few months later something else... They don't follow the advice they're given - no matter how desperate or willing they say they are.

For some people just asking someone to help them makes them feel like the problem is dealt with, it's now someone elses fault if they fail.

It can take a lot out of your trying to help people like this, especially if they turn around and complain or argue.

So, it's not as simple as it might seem - many people who genuinely look for help will not actually let you give them it, and they'll blame you when they don't get the result they wanted.
Andy

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tryinhere

15 years ago

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

So yea, am I a failure? Sure. Is it my fault? Sure. Will I stay that way? Hell no! The idea that everyone who is not "successful" yet is a lost cause is an insult to all those that paved the way for themselves. By your definition, successful people are those that were born into wealth and never made a single mistake to lose what they inherited.

Hey champ, as below your post , i may have put the message across wrong, and am sorry for that, I should have said that for many years i have worked with people who "want to earn money", but all they do is talk about it, they will do some work if you hold their hand but as soon as you let go they slide back into the comfort zone and stop the walk and resume the talk.

Based on your story i do not see where your a failure, and again sorry for my poor explanation of my thoughts and experience

Pete

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tryinhere 15 years ago

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

.

@ you wont mind if i disagree, you are only a failure when you give up.

the things you talk of are nothing new, many people have been where you are in varying forms, you tell me your a fighter who wants to win, ? then keep training as from what i understand it's not how many times you get knocked down thats counts but how many times you stand up again.
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wisecrone333

15 years ago

I think a barter type situation is a good idea - I would use it - but I thought interns had to have a certain skill level to be chosen in the first place - for example I would use writing skills that I have in a JV is I could find someone to promote a product of mine to their list - but if I was a lousy writer then my "mentor" wouldn't actually get anything out of it.

A lot of people want to "make it" online and I am one of them - but I think any trade, whether it be for money or services needs to be a fair one on both sides to be of value for the people involved.

My 2c
Lisa

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Stuart Turnbull

15 years ago

These points have been raised but mentioning them again won't do any harm.

Nobody in the developed world is 'flat broke' (apart from 'down and outs' obviously) they just choose to spend their money on other things.

Without a financial investment there is no incentive to see the training through, as soon as the going gets tough the majority of people attracted to this idea will be off and doing something else (for free)

If you really want the success then you get the money to pay for the training/mentoring. Without the determination to do this you're unlikely to be successful anyway.

Sorry to be harsh here but I didn't expect anybody to teach me for free, and if I had free coaching I wouldn't have valued it and seen it through, I'd have hopped to the next 'make money online' idea as soon as I got bored or stuck.

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Katie Rich

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Stuart Turnbull

These points have been raised but mentioning them again won't do any harm.

Nobody in the developed world is 'flat broke' (apart from 'down and outs' obviously) they just choose to spend their money on other things.

Without a financial investment there is no incentive to see the training through, as soon as the going gets tough the majority of people attracted to this idea will be off and doing something else (for free)

If you really want the success then you get the money to pay for the training/mentoring. Without the determination to do this you're unlikely to be successful anyway.

Sorry to be harsh here but I didn't expect anybody to teach me for free, and if I had free coaching I wouldn't have valued it and seen it through, I'd have hopped to the next 'make money online' idea as soon as I got bored or stuck.

I disagree.

Perhaps 'flat broke' is the wrong word to use, but some people just do not have the cash to sling around to pay for the mentoring. There have to be choices and sometimes those choices must reflect the current circumstances. Do I spend $6000 on a course, or pay the mortgage. To me, having a roof over my head has to be a priority at the moment.

Where exactly so you 'get the money' to pay for a course? Credit cards? loans? Not really wise in the current financial climate.

I have never 'expected anyone to teach me for free'. My time, like many others, is valuable. I have a worth. A barter system isn't 'for free' it is trading good or time and effort for information or other goods. I appreciate that some people will think that it is just an easy ride to becoming rich. I am aware that it isn't. Anything worth having takes effort, not just cash.

So I have been around this forum for ages and am still whining? Yes, something, and I have no idea what, is blocking my success. Maybe I am useless at this, maybe my head is filled with so much rubbish that I cant implement what I know. Maybe I need a kick up the a*** !!

Please don't make the mistake of tarring everyone with the same brush.

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bobsstuff 15 years ago

I have access to the most experienced mentor in IM. Any time of day or night that I have a problem or question, I can get it answered within minutes. I have the Warrior Forum.

The people asking for a mentor can be mentored by the best. They can even be proactive and self mentor by reading older posts. SEARCH is an excellent high quality mentor.

As to an experience marketer, Tiffany or anyone, taking on mentoring newbies or anyone else, the question is what is the ROI? What is the return on investment for the mentor? If you invest time or money you expect some sort of return

Is it to make a mentoring name for yourself so you can later charge for your services?
Is it to fulfill an emotional need?
Is it for the bartered services and are the newbies services an equal trade for your mentoring expertise? Your ROI could be money, product or satisfaction.
Is it worth your time for the reward you will get back?
Do you have time to hand hold a number of people for the return you are planning on?
Time is money and any new project will take time away from other projects, from free time, from family time. Do you have the time?
Is there any reason to start a new business? What are the pros and cons YOU see?
Can you justify the resources required?

ON EDIT: Also along the self mentoring line, check out this WF post:
http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...d-branson.html
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- TiffanyLambert 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bobsstuff
  
  What is the return on investment for the mentor?
  
  Q: Is it to make a mentoring name for yourself so you can later charge for your services?
  
  A: Not for me personally.
  
  Q: Is it to fulfill an emotional need?
  
  A: Yes this is one. I get very emotional about the people who desperately need my help. And I want to do for someone else what Craig Desorcy did for me.
  
  Q: Is it for the bartered services and are the newbies services an equal trade for your mentoring expertise? Your ROI could be money, product or satisfaction.
  
  A: It wasn't but when I started brainstorming how more seasoned marketers could help more newbies, that's where I got this idea - that the mentor could get something out of it since there was no money changing hands.
  
  Q: Is it worth your time for the reward you will get back?
  
  A: If I helped someone succeed, YES! Because I know how good it feels when a customer who buys one of my eBooks comes to me and says, "Last year I was struggling, etc...and now I'm making $x a month - thank you SO much" etc...
  
  Q: Do you have time to hand hold a number of people for the return you are planning on?
  Time is money and any new project will take time away from other projects, from free time, from family time. Do you have the time?
  
  A: Well the reason I worded my original post that way was because while I'm training, it WILL be building my business, so it would be working hours toward my own financial goals too.
  
  Q: Is there any reason to start a new business? What are the pros and cons YOU see?
  Can you justify the resources required?
  
  A: I don't want to start a whole new mentoring business - just take someone(s) under my wing and once that person leaves the nest, adopt a new one.
  
  Those are MY answers - can't speak for everyone
  tiff
  
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  bobsstuff 15 years ago
  
  Tiffany,
  Rewards are tangible and intangible. Your reason for this is emotional pleasure and that is often a greater reward (and motivator) than money or fame.
  
  Based on answers you have received here and ones you have already researched, what is the best way to proceed?
  
  Again you need to think about your ROI. Your time is valuable, so how can implement this plan and still fulfill your needs? You need to implement a plan where your rewards (pleasure) are equal to the reward of those you help.
  
  From what others have said in this thread, you need to think "outside the box" about mentoring to make this work effectively. Others have tried and given up. How can you be different?
  
  One on one is an answer, but I believe you already do that to some degree. I get the impression you want to help as many people as possible.
  
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TiffanyLambert

15 years ago

Wow it's really neat to see both perspectives. The seasoned marketer who has been burned and the newbie willing to work who hates being lumped in with lazy get rich quick seekers.

I think this:

1.) IF and when I do this, I will obviously take someone from my own list (be good to your list first is my rule). And it doesn't need to be someone I already know well, but I WILL have a screening process with questions I need to know.

2.) I will not give access to everything but will set up a separate login for a blog, etc. And for instance, if they write autoresponders, I will load them and video me doing it step by step so they learn what happens with the content. That way they don't gain access to my list directly but they see it happen.

3.) It may fail. But I may try again

tiff

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Kurt

15 years ago

Hey Tiff,

Why not set up some type of "survivor' type competition with 5-10 members of your list?

You give them each the same tasks to perform and elminate one each week, sharing with your list why you felt this person's performance was the weakest.

Each person must be willing to share their real name, so they can be held somewhat accountable.

The winner will win "something". Mentoring, a JV, cash, etc., and will have proven themselves. If they all drop out, you will have proven a point to your list why you don't do mentoring.

It would also be a great opportunity for you to do a little promo, using press releases, etc.

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marlon

15 years ago

Hi,

I tried this once.

What happened for me was everyone was in it because they wanted free training and at the end of the day not much work got performed.

Terry Dean DOES have a program like this and I think he found a way to make it work.

Marlon

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bobsstuff 15 years ago

I was just over at cnn.com reading a bit of news and this article caught my eye and made me think of this thread:
Compassion fatigue -- how to protect yourself - CNN.com

It is about "Compassion fatigue" and how caring for others can adversely affect the caregiver. It is about physical health, but I see how it could apply here too.

As I read it, this thread seemed to POP out of that article. Caring for others is important and compassion saves lives, careers and more. However there is a saying in therapy that says, "Rescuers get sh _ _ on". It means that often those who care the most and try to help the most, in the end, lose out and are trampled upon by those they are trying to rescue. Try to rescue a friend in a bad relationship and your advice often causes the loss of a friend.

A mentor is a caregiver. The mentor to the "flat broke" is effectively the same as the caregiver in the article. CARE must be taken to protect yourself from becoming overwhelmed.
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Shana_Adam

15 years ago

This is an excellent idea well done!

Pay it forward I say. Also some day these newbies could be your potential promoters.

I wonder if there is a skill swap section?

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dave830

15 years ago

Tiffany,

You're right on the money. I think it's win-win. One of my heroes online is Terry Dean, and he's been doing this for a while. Interns : Internet Business Coaching by Terry Dean

Seems to have great results.

Thanks

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casestudykev

15 years ago

I've done this before in a similar vein:

Give the newbie a profitable turn key business and coach them on growing it. They are making net cash from day 1(usually about $50 a week). The newbie pays you based on the profit from the business.

You want to structure the deal so that if the person flakes out, you aren't left in the lurch i.e. have the domain in your name. The goal is to help the person learn enough so they can go start their own profitable businesses.

The reality is the person has to have:
>commitment
>money or intelligence or skills
money: outsource
intelligence: figure it out
skills: do it

This leaves about 1 in 10 people capable of making a go of it.

Thanks
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casestudykev

15 years ago

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

Depending on the niche, I could definitely provide intelligence.

I'm defining intelligence here as the ability to figure out and solve any problem, its more of a general tool.

for example if I said go buy a domain and host it, an "intelligent" person that has never done this before could figure it out and get it done. Intelligence isn't necessary, but managing the lack of it is.

niche knowledge I classify more in the skill area, if its a good niche, then that information can be invaluable. Its usually pretty fast and easy to find out if a specific niche can easily generate a profit. Look at how much money is moving for that niche in a specific marketing channel.

i.e. if your niche is dog dance training videos, where does it sell and how much does it sell.

send me a PM with your niche and I'll do a quick analysis. BTW the multiple steams of income/multiple niches perspective causes a dissipation of focus. The problem with people that can maintain focus is they are usually barking up the wrong tree: no scalability, no continuity, etc.

Thanks
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tryinhere 15 years ago

Originally Posted by casestudykev

I'm defining intelligence here as the ability to figure out and solve any problem, its more of a general tool..

Intelligence is ?

understanding that you do not need to know everything, but to instead surround yourself with those people who do.
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Andyhenry

15 years ago

Hi again,

Now, the last thing I want to do is tell you how to live your life or how you should do your IM, but here's what comes to my mind from your posts in this thread.

1 - You are focusing on your obstacles rather than opportunities.

You say you're stuck because you're waiting for approval on articles and didn't get accepted for Adsense.

Article marketing takes a LOT of articles to be really effective and profitable without other systems in place (article marketing is not a business, it's designed to support a business)

Adsense is one of the least effective ways to monetise content.

Many people have been turned down / banned by Adsense - and successfully re-applied (Google never tell anyone why they were refused - that's just the way it is) and some people even have multiple accounts.

So, don't sweat the Adsense thing, just create a simple blog with no ads and a few decent articles and try again (just make sure it doesn't have any signs of alternative monetisation).

2 - You have experience, knowledge and interest in areas which you're not doing anything about.

Mixed martial arts is getting more and more popular all the time.

People love videos (I subscribe to several Youtube channels in this niche myself since I used to box and currently do TKD). There's a LOT you could do in that niche.

UFC Tickets sell for up to $2000 - and there are ways to become an affiliate. If you had videos on Youtube getting traffic and a blog that sells them - that's just one way to make nice commissions.

You could use Yahoo Answers to answer martial arts/boxing questions and get valuable links and traffic.

There are bound to be ezines on these topics, those owners would make great affiliates for your products (info, audio, video etc.)

You could do all of this stuff with no Adsense and no articles....

There is NOTHING stopping you from moving forward except your reasons for why not.

3 - You're saying that you stick with things - but you're saying you don't know where to start. When you choose your niche - make it something you're passionate about and don't take no for answer. When something gets in your way - go around it. Adsense won't accept you - don't use Adsense. Your articles aren't accepted - write more, do other things.

Build relationships with people in your niche and find out how others are making money and what is selling and focus on those areas first.

Check Ebay - people are buying.

Check Yahoo Answers - people asking questions are your potential customers.

Use Twitter - your customers are trying to find other people into their hobby.

Find where these people hang out.

The sky is the limit with only your imagination in the way.

You get what you focus on and your focus is on your problems.

Change your mind - start looking at what you CAN do now.

Andy

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

Dog dancing? haha yes I bet that is non-competitive!

Okay I think we are starting to be on the same page. I have never hosted a domain name, but buying one I have. Since I'm the one shelling out the money to buy the domain and host it...I think that being "upselled" requires less intelligence than a ditzy blonde with daddy's credit card. So your definition of intelligence might be a bit beyond that, but I get it. Problem solving I can be very good at, but only when the dizziness of "what is IM" wears off haha!

I have general knowledge on a few topics. American Politics, Fitness, Long distance Running, Weight Lifting, Mixed Martial Arts, and of course Boxing.

At the very core of my queries is my inability to decipher what niche to pursue and what method to capitalize on it.

For instance: I have a passion for all the above topics, but as far as writing goes, politics takes a cake. By all indications, politics is WAY too competitive and ads produce next to nothing because there are little products out there to market to political junkies as a whole.

So I know I could go ahead and produce a blog with adsense, which is why I singed up for adsense, even thought I was declined as mentioned earlier.

(remember the part about taking "action"?)

So I wrote a good article and posted it on ezinearticles on a nice little niche that I was interested in. It will take 7-10 days to get an answer.

(once again, someone told me to write an article and I did just that)

So I thought that maby while those are are the backburner, I'll find ways to generate traffic to those ideas. In the mean time, I'll write another article.

(so guess what? I did just that)

So now that brings us to where we are today. I have everything waiting on approvals and dealing with rejections. I have no real way to guide myself, other than to keep writing about "something." It gets to the point that I think I would be better off writing for someone else, because at least it benefits SOMEONE.

Does that make any sense? I'm going to work to spin my wheels helping nobody, or I'm going to work (notice that word...indicating a willingness) to help someone else make money and see how I can apply it to myself.

I hope that makes sense. I know I am really long-winded right now but I see the opportunity for myself and others and I just want to push the idea to the point that everyone at least recognizes me for what I am...a hard, relentless worker who will not quit when the going gets rough.

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casestudykev

15 years ago

Let me throw out a few things

>You will be rewarded based on the problem you solve and who you solve it for.
Got a cancer cure for rich people?

>American Politics, Fitness, Long distance Running, Weight Lifting, Mixed Martial Arts, and of course Boxing.
each of these have problems people are willing to pay to solve, some questions to ask are:
how much will they pay for problem x?
how many will pay?
how competitive is it (in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king)?

>Way over 90% of what people say is either wrong or not applicable to you

>almost everyone misses the significance of this point, it takes about 200 to 1000 hours to be good at one marketing channel; you want to be good at article marketing? The its going to take over 3 months or so doing it every day.

If you know a marketing channel, you will know if product x has a chance to sell in that channel before you do anything else.

Thanks

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Andy1750

15 years ago

Hi Tiffany,

It's normally easier and quicker to do something yourself than it is to teach someone else how to do it from scratch (unless of course you are training someone to work for you on a long term basis). Sure, there will be exceptions, but this is the general case and therein lies the problem.

Mentoring for free takes a lot of time and effort and I would personally feel GUILTY devoting so much time helping strangers that generating wealth and security from my family and those closest to me. And if I have anything to spare I would prefer to give it to those that truly need it than those that are struggling to make money online.

I would never personally consider mentoring the flat broke without a return that exceeds that which I could earn from devoting that time to my internet marketing efforts. Why should I PAY people to learn? In fact I think that this applies to most people. I can't recall seeing anything valuable in the internet marketing world that wasn't focussed on making money from others, building a reputation, promoting an affiliate offer, capturing an email address, including a signature link or backlink or hoping to learn something from others in return. And, on top of that, I think that you'll find that the majority of the world's population would probably come under the definition of flat broke. And, if I need to outsource something it would be cheaper to outsource it someone that knows what they are doing than spending my valuable time teaching them how to do it.

Fortunately or unfortunately we live in a capitalist society and very few will do anything that involves operating at a loss or at a reduced return. This is exactly how it is in the wealth generating sector of society.

If you are prepared to operate at a loss to help others (or are able to establish a system that enables mutual benefit) then you have my complete admiration. However, most people's attention will be (rightly in my opinion) focussed on themselves and those closest to them - they will have no interest in strangers unless there is something to gain.

I don't think it will ever be possible to develop a free mentoring program that is mutually profitable. If that were the case I would assume that in the many years since the industrial revolution it would have become common business practice.

Nevertheless, if you think it's possible then go for it! It would be an extraordinary achievement.

Andy

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debra

15 years ago

I can see where is could work for others that aren't neccessarily noobs and flat broke.

What about the more experienced but flat broke?

For instance, I have Website Content Wizard. I've had it since it first came out. Now I have the latest version too. (oh...joy me)

Now that sounds all great and everything...but I haven't a clue how to set it up right to do me the most good. I've watched the videos, read the instructions but...I open it up to create Blocks and I go into straight brain fart.

I have skills...advanced skills but I can't setup blocks in WCW worth a darn.

So...I think a system like you are commenting about would be great.

And...remember that mentoring doesn't have to be limited to just the processes of a sale.

Thanks
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Andyhenry

15 years ago

Originally Posted by debra

I can see where is could work for others that aren't neccessarily noobs and flat broke.

What about the more experienced but flat broke?

For instance, I have Website Content Wizard. I've had it since it first came out. Now I have the latest version too. (oh...joy me)

Now that sounds all great and everything...but I haven't a clue how to set it up right to do me the most good. I've watched the videos, read the instructions but...I open it up to create Blocks and I go into straight brain fart.

I have skills...advanced skills but I can't setup blocks in WCW worth a darn.

So...I think a system like you are commenting about would be great.

And...remember that mentoring doesn't have to be limited to just the processes of a sale.

WCW is just a tool that should be part of an overall strategy. Dave's a great guy and his tools are good, but you need to either - spend the time to learn it (just keep playing and testing until you get it), or do something else.

think of it like your driving test - you need it in order to go places, but you wouldn't dream of giving up just because it's difficult for a while.

Thanks
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debra

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

WCW is just a tool that should be part of an overall strategy. Dave's a great guy and his tools are good, but you need to either - spend the time to learn it (just keep playing and testing until you get it), or do something else.

think of it like your driving test - you need it in order to go places, but you wouldn't dream of giving up just because it's difficult for a while.

Giving Up? nah...no way. Not in my nature.

I have no doubt that I'll get there...quicker just sounds a whole lot better.

I have plans to create some kick butt link wheels and WCW fits into those plans.

What I need to do is find someone that has mastered the workings of the WCW concept because I'm just having trouble getting my head wrapped around it. For the right person...I wouldn't mind creating demographic link wheels for them too.

Thanks

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David Hooper

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

WHAT IF....

Flat broke newbies went to a more seasoned marketer and worked as an INTERN - getting taught the lessons they need for FREE in exchange for doing the work FOR the marketer teaching them.

Too much work. It's easier to hire it out.

The reality of this business is a lot less fun than the fantasy. Most people don't really want to do what it takes to do well.

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HeySal

15 years ago

Tiffany - it's a good idea in principal, but the factor you are missing is time. Someone flat broke is stressing over keeping their electric on long enough to get some funding in, not lounging around deciding to learn a new trick. They aren't going to perceive the value if it's not earning directly for THEM and doing it right away unless they have someone backing their bills for them.

You'd stand a better chance helping them build something that can start earning for THEM right away, with a 50/50 on the project.

If this was already said, then let this serve as a second for the first. LOL - Truth being, it's late and I didn't read the three pages under your post.

Thanks
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grumpyjacksa 15 years ago

why not have the person work at a reduced rate in turn for mentoring ?

or...

get reseller hosting - and help the person with hosting, and an autoresponder...

after he or she becomes independent, it can be transferred - and the AR list can just be exported

just my 0.02c...

ps. ...i only finally "got it" while i was doing outsourced work for someone working systematically....
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Steven W Johnson

15 years ago

Ok, it's a cliche, but "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" - never could. never will. Unless you are thinking Kiyosaki's Rich Dad Poor Dad quadrant when considering taking on a student, you are VERY likely to get burned...by an EMPLOYEE mindset - I find the world is 80 to 90 per cent employees, so you're up against it right out of the gate.

I get the best results when I find interns who are ALREADY getting it done. Those who just need a little focus and direction to turn up the heat. So I say "show me the money" - show me the sites, the social media presence, the articles, the blogs, the scripts they've installed, the copy they've written, the stuff they've already accomplished (even forum posts are a good indicator). It's easy - "please send me your online portfolio" or some such. If they don't have one, tell them to get one. Or give them a BIG homework assignment (no, they don't get anything for doing it from you - make them PROVE they are capable first) - if someone steps up to the plate and actually REGISTERS A DOMAIN NAME, I'll toss them some advanced hosting and see what they do with it - doesn't take very long to find out if they are in the E quadrant (employee) or the B quadrant.

I also have a secret weapon. It's called HIGH COMMISSIONS. It's soooo much more fun sharing the wealth when a mentoree is involved in helping you earn a 1 thousand or a 5 thousand dollar paycheck than when they manage to convert a few adsense clicks or a $17 clickbank commission (still awaiting the mentoree who helps earn a 15k commission - that should be a fun one - it's in my biz model)

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TiffanyLambert

15 years ago

Vince - those are the people I'm talking about - the ones who seek you out. These people come to me willing to give me their firstborn - they want to learn and work. I'm not talking about people who say, "send me a business in a box."

HeySal - I agree - regarding time - I always tell people if the mortgage is due Friday, go get a job. IM isn't for that.

Steven Johnson - you just gave me an idea. Maybe I'll have them build pages using their affiliate ID so we BOTH share in the profits of our joint efforts.

Thanks
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Steven W Johnson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

Steven Johnson - you just gave me an idea. Maybe I'll have them build pages using their affiliate ID so we BOTH share in the profits of our joint efforts.

Good idea, Tiffany. You could also set up a simple rotater script that bounced back and forth between your two affiliate IDs (if they are promoting other than your own content)

Thanks
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TiffanyLambert

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven W Johnson

Good idea, Tiffany. You could also set up a simple rotater script that bounced back and forth between your two affiliate IDs (if they are promoting other than your own content)

WOOSH!

That was the sound of that technical advice flying right over my head. LOL
tiff

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Steven W Johnson 15 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

That was the sound of that technical advice flying right over my head. LOL
tiff

hahaha - have a peek at this search listing for some inspiration:

Search Listings | Hot Scripts

If you don't have a "script kiddie" (often under age 18, so seek parental approval in writing) in your org, time to get one! LOL
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rimam1

15 years ago

Did you ever watch the old "Kung Fu" series? How about Kill Bill Vol. 2?

In the old days you didn't pay some "guru" to learn their secrets. They would hand pick you, and if you're worthy, they'd give you the opportunity to learn by their masterful hands. You had to bust your chops and sacrifice everything, but at the end of your training, you are a ninja.

So this theory will work, provided it's viewed as an apprenticeship. I think it keeps the student motivated because they learn by doing for free, and the master gets the work done by the student/intern.

It's a great concept, but the mentors need to be extremely selective to make sure the student really appreciates the value of what they're getting.

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kfilliez

15 years ago

As a 'newbie' to internet marketing, it's expensive to get in the door...i know you got to spend to make money but there is also a point to where some of the quick answer stuff would be nice to trade 'jobs' or repay in referrals verses forking over another $xx.xx to get simple but unknown tasks completed...Good idea! I don't know enough yet to utilize but down the road maybe i'll understand enough to know what questions/tasks to 'trade' or 'intern' for!

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Alice Seba

15 years ago

Kelly Mccausey does a similar idea and has created an internship program for mommy bloggers. The idea is to show them about profitable blogging, but Kelly benefits from the traffic created by the interns efforts. She's been doing it for a while and it seems to be working well for her.

Alice

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Jaysmyne

15 years ago

Due to the fact that I'm in school and music is a passion of mine, I've been working in the music industry as an unpaid intern for the last 4years, the information I've learned at these internships has been very valuable.

I would love to do the same with Internet Marketing but, I'm more experienced than a newbie, more intermediate.....

Interships are great to give out especially if the person is willing to learn, reliable and communicates with you.

Quite personally, I believe it is important to keep it professional and that way you don't get any headaches dealing with someone else's head issues or lost job issue.

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Yogini

15 years ago

I am wondering if individual mentoring is actually necessary for a new person. With the precision of making videos, it seems that a membership site that goes through steps thoroughly and step by step to duplicate the seasoned marketer's success can be a very good learning tool. For instance, Geoff Shaw (opoqo) has a wso that goes step by step via videos on how to use blogger to make money. He has a system that can be laid out in sequential videos and teaches it from keyword research to post writing and generating traffic. I am sure there are other systems that are done via video and in great detail, but this is one I am familiar with and am impressed by.

An inexpensive wso that is step by step can be a good way to give back to others and there can also be the option of personal mentoring via bartering down the road. However, this way the flat broke newbie can be making money more quickly than doing tasks in a mentoring setting where the tasks are done for the marketer initially.

Debbie

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Ray Erdmann

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Yogini

I am wondering if individual mentoring is actually necessary for a new person. With the precision of making videos, it seems that a membership site that goes through steps thoroughly and step by step to duplicate the seasoned marketer's success can be a very good learning tool. For instance, Geoff Shaw (opoqo) has a wso that goes step by step via videos on how to use blogger to make money. He has a system that can be laid out in sequential videos and teaches it from keyword research to post writing and generating traffic. I am sure there are other systems that are done via video and in great detail, but this is one I am familiar with and am impressed by.

An inexpensive wso that is step by step can be a good way to give back to others and there can also be the option of personal mentoring via bartering down the road. However, this way the flat broke newbie can be making money more quickly than doing tasks in a mentoring setting where the tasks are done for the marketer initially.

Debbie

Debbie,

This is a great post and I would just like to add the following:

1) Find a way to allow the 'flat broke person' to join for FREE

2) Have something like an 'escrow service' setup, which is where all the monies earned are deposited into that the 'newbie' generates by 'duplicating the very steps' the 'tutor' has taught. This money is then shared 50/50 between 'tutor' and 'newbie' for a pre-determined amount of time. Weeks/months...whatever....

Tutor gets repaid for their time/effort and newbie gets paid as well..albeit not the full amount, but what they learn and how they learn it will be something of greater value at a later date/time in their own business.

3) Once 'newbie' has reached a particular dollar figure per month, 'tutor' assigns escrow account over to 'newbie' and the newbie continues to reap the 'teachings' and 'knowledge' as laid out by the 'tutor' for as long as they continue to sustain that particular income stream.

I can't see why no one is going this route. I can see where some posters are stating their previous 'failure rate', but do you really want us to BELIEVE that the reason why so-and-so quit was 100% because of THEM..and not maybe YOUR inability to actually 'teach' someone or properly communicate to them in another tone other then the "hey...I'm a guru, so I know what I'm talking about?"

Pffffftttt..yeah..sure! Sorry, but I don't always believe that a quitter always quits because it was THEIR decision to quit..sometimes, they're induced to quit because of the guidance they're getting from the tutor...if that makes sense?

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jamesburchill

15 years ago

Morning Tiffany

My 2 cents worth for you (random-ish thoughts...)

I think it was Freud who was asked, "why do you make your patients pay?" - his reply "Because they don't get better otherwise." Evidently this speaks to the issue of commitment and 'skin in the game' - something vested to lose keeps people focused.

Regarding selection, YUP... this is key. Recruiting is a tough gig because it requires us to 'discriminate' between one person and another. And YES... I mean discriminate on PROPER grounds - nothing dopey like color, age and so forth. The comments about making the candidates deselect themselves is definitely in your best interests otherwise you'll be drowning in the minutia!

I should say I like the idea and have piloted it myself a few times in the past. I typically keep a portion of my time set aside for tithing, and I consider investing in someone who wants my help as tithing too.

I enjoy automating much of what I do and when possible put folks through a system so I can focus on other things and step up to help them when I am needed most - not for every little question. The whole critical inch idea - you know.

Another thought you might like is this, I'm involved in some NON Internet Marketing businesses and while I get a fair amount of folks asking for my help for free, I figured out that I could give them what they wanted in exchange for something that would help me to. Case in point a network marketing program I started working with earlier this year. In exchange for joining my network and working the system, I am giving people access to ALL my Internet Marketing training for free. It helps them and it helps me.

There are a few caveats as you might expect, but these are my first thoughts on the subject. In principal a good idea and one that can reward both parties when trust and fairness are in play.

PS. A long time ago I wrote and marketed one of my first e-products to the 'flat broke' market. It was huge, I built a big list... and SOLD NOTHING - LOL. Doh! I'd forgotten a cardinal rule, finding a market, reaching a market - sure they were key ... but ensuring the market had the means to buy what I was offering was something I missed back then. What a dope!!! Oh well, we learn ;-)

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Steven W Johnson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jamesburchill

Case in point a network marketing program I started working with earlier this year. In exchange for joining my network and working the system, I am giving people access to ALL my Internet Marketing training for free. It helps them and it helps me.

BINGO James!

It's VASTLY easier to justify giving up your own hard-won expertise when the recipient is part of your MARKETING ORGANIZATION, and you stand to benefit over the long haul from their success than when you are ponying it up to someone off the street, even if they might become a customer. The difference (not just financially) is night and day, because all of a sudden, you are building a long-term strategic alliance that isn't easily severed.

It's actually FUN when you give it away to someone IN A DIFFERENT HEMISPHERE, never having met them in person, and then, sometimes even YEARS later, like some karmic/cosmic event, it all comes roaring back to you.

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AyaImmortal

15 years ago

I think this is a great idea. Actually, I should consider doing this myself lol

Thanks
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M Thompson 15 years ago

I've been doing mentoring for about a year now. I've mostly had people who pay me to mentor them but I have mentored two people who emailed me and said they were flat broke and could they pay me when the made money.

I was more than happy to help them out on the understanding that they had no obligation to pay, I didn't want them to feel beholden to me.

Both people gave up after about a week and never got back to me. I was more than happy to give them as much help as i could even going so far as to tell them some of my best niches so they could build up income quickly.

Unfortunatly I do believe that some people just want to be given everything and not have to work at it. The most successful people I have mentored have all seeemd to be the ones that stuggled to find time and money but were prepared to sacrifice things to build for the future.

I think if i was to take on any free clients again I'd give them a blueprint and tell them to go out and make $5 using it. when they could show me they could do that then I'd happily take them to the next level.

I have given up mentoring for the time being as I've lost my enthusiasm for it.I'd rather give free tips and advice on my blog and in my forums.

I hope this hasn't come across as hard hearted I've just had some disapointing experiences.
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Jaysmyne

15 years ago

I felt compelled to post here after posting my thread here:

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...portunity.html

I'm going to be 100% honest in saying, I did contact Tiffany and told her I'd love to intern for her even though I wasn't flat broke....infact I have quite a stable amount of information I wouldn't require much "TEACHING"

THE REASON I contacted Tiffany was because she mentioned some aspects of IM that I want to learn more about and being a firm believer that internships are great to learn with, I sent her the message.

I did receive a reply from Tiffany and after that I decided to focus on my OWN projects and possibly give back to the community I've been involved in for so long due to the fact I felt I too could benefit a newbie...but clearly people are VERY unappreciative, because my post count is low, I am not credible, because I ask questions, I don't know enough to provide a newbie with something valuable. I've been severely attacked and it just leads me to believe that people are rude, obnoxious and that I should not put offers out there because they WILL be attacked.

Unfortunately people are short sighted, especially newbies (look at the "gurus" attacking my thread, they can't really see past their noses) and this experience leads me to believe that offering a virtual internship on the Warrior Forum or any other forum might be a bad idea.

People WILL Take advantage of a kind heart. They WILL rip it apart and they WILL try to destroy.

The only reason I say it might be a bad idea is because regardless of the negative feedback I've received from my offer, is that if one person is genuine and sends me a message, and we build a working relationship.....then it makes it all worth it!

Its just something to think about.

Tiffany wont have an issue with people disputing her experience, because of her high post count, but sometimes seeing past your nose is important, and when you find a majority of people doing that on a particular forum you begin to wonder if mentoring the flat broke is really a good idea.

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Xo, Faith and DanielleFaith.me

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debra

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jaysmyne

I felt compelled to post here after posting my thread here:

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...portunity.html

I'm going to be 100% honest in saying, I did contact Tiffany and told her I'd love to intern for her even though I wasn't flat broke....infact I have quite a stable amount of information I wouldn't require much "TEACHING"

THE REASON I contacted Tiffany was because she mentioned some aspects of IM that I want to learn more about and being a firm believer that internships are great to learn with, I sent her the message.

I did receive a reply from Tiffany and after that I decided to focus on my OWN projects and possibly give back to the community I've been involved in for so long due to the fact I felt I too could benefit a newbie...but clearly people are VERY unappreciative, because my post count is low, I am not credible, because I ask questions, I don't know enough to provide a newbie with something valuable. I've been severely attacked and it just leads me to believe that people are rude, obnoxious and that I should not put offers out there because they WILL be attacked.

Unfortunately people are short sighted, especially newbies (look at the "gurus" attacking my thread, they can't really see past their noses) and this experience leads me to believe that offering a virtual internship on the Warrior Forum or any other forum might be a bad idea.

People WILL Take advantage of a kind heart. They WILL rip it apart and they WILL try to destroy.

The only reason I say it might be a bad idea is because regardless of the negative feedback I've received from my offer, is that if one person is genuine and sends me a message, and we build a working relationship.....then it makes it all worth it!

Its just something to think about.

Tiffany wont have an issue with people disputing her experience, because of her high post count, but sometimes seeing past your nose is important, and when you find a majority of people doing that on a particular forum you begin to wonder if mentoring the flat broke is really a good idea.

This is just my opinion and experiences.

Do you know "Why" people react negetivley like they do in a case like this?

Because they are scared to face the reality that they are just as vulnerable as a newbie! I firmly believe that "Gurus" are just as vulnerable as noobs. And, thier egos couldn't handle the shock.

We all have something to learn...me included. It's those that are willing to accept new ideas that will make it further than the other 99% left behind.

I remember when I first came to this forum. I already knew a lot. That's what DeVry was for. But...I was also to intimindated to speak up because I had no post count to determine my reliability "score".

That's a shame because reading through the posts just today...I learned something new and benefitual from someone that had a post of 21. Now, go figure, imagine learning something positive from a noob.

That's what makes this forum WORK and it's GREAT...despite the occassional backlash of negative attitudes.

Now that my rant is over...I'll wait to be bashed too. :rolleyes:

Thanks

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Ray Erdmann 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jaysmyne

I felt compelled to post here after posting my thread here:

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...portunity.html

Thread no longer exists...looks like it got removed for one reason or another...
- Thanks
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"Whether you think you can or not...you'll always be 100% right!" |
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Steven D Smith

15 years ago

Jasmyne hang in there. A very large part of internet marketing is dealing with negative things. Internet marketing is based on testing and reacting. I actually liie your plan quite a bit.

Don't let the negative response get you down.

Steve

Thanks

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Jaysmyne

15 years ago

Thanks Debra,

Its okay to be critical of an offer, but PEOPLE need to do RESEARCH and not assume. I'm a huge supporter of playing devil's advocate and asking questions, but not in ignorance. People need to peel the onion layers and suffer a bit (research) and make an educated assumption based on the factors at hand. Now, with that said someone in that thread went though my posts and degraded me for being happy about $3.50 daily earning on one of my sites, as well as a few other things and told me if I really wanted to help I should stick to teaching only the basics, now I admire this person they took the time to read my threads, but what they did not do was understand the context of them.

Yah I'm excited about a $3.50 daily earning, especailly from adsense alone! That PROVES I know how to get to a good stable earning point, as for teaching the basics, yah I know the basics.

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, I just got so aggravated and thought it might be a word to the wise when hiring on an intern:

MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT TAKEN ADVANTAGE
MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF AN INTERN

Thanks

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Xoxo, Danielle Faith
Xo, Faith and DanielleFaith.me

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Matt Fulger

15 years ago

I think you have a great idea Tiffany!

Also, I wanted to second the notion that one of the reasons a LOT of the
newbies tend to be lazy is because of the BS marketing that comes out
of every email they see in their inbox.

Sure, some of them simply have the victim mindset and choose to live
the life of a victim. But the fact is, I see ads on a daily basis talking
about how EASY it is to INSTANTLY make money w/o lifting a finger.

Then the sellers wonder why it is that even their paying clients don't
get off their asses and DO SOMETHING. Why aren't they taking any
ACTION? Hasn't it ever occurred to these people that it may have
something to do with the fact that they TOLD them they wouldn't
have to do anything aside from buy their product?

So I think that some of those complaining about the lazy mindset
should quit promoting the whole idea that you don't have to do
anything in order to be successful.

It seems to me that many of the marketers have NO PROBLEMS lying
to people just to make a sale.

Thanks

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Taylor French

15 years ago

There was a fairly well-known marketer who did just this. A friend of mine joined his program. He taught everything by having his apprentices do all of the work for him. This was about two years ago. I don't remember the name of that marketer, though.

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l23bc

15 years ago

great words good post!

yes do not go gentle in the night! rage rage in the burning of the light "keats"

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No Link here or Nothing to Promote Just a Old Happy Warrior User reading Topics

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Annie Dennis

15 years ago

I think it's a brilliant idea! If I new anyone in Brisbane, Australia offering this type of mentoring I'd definitely go for it. I learn a lot online, however I don't think anything beats being there and doing it in person with someone who already is where you want to be.

Thanks

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zankee

15 years ago

Sounds good, however when you give something away for "free" its normally seen as garbage, why not offer them a free or $1.00 trial and a fee charged in 30 days.

Russell brunson swears by a system called "free plus shippin" essentially give away some of your best stuff but charge them a small shipping fee.

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VoodooMethods

15 years ago

Mentoring 100 noobs for free can be extremely profitable if done right. Think.. you have a product you want to sell, but don't want to pay to promote it. Teach a bunch of noobs how to promote a product via articles, and tell them you'll pay them for each sale they bring. BAM, you've got 100 noobs giving you backlinks and possibly sales, and they're learning too. Everyone wins.

Oh yeah, you can also sell them the "advanced course" in the end and get more back-end commissions. The trust should and will be there by this stage, cause your list will be.. and they'll have money to spend now

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Marvin Johnston

13 years ago

This looks like a great thread, so just giving it a bump!

Marvin

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jasonmorgan

13 years ago

Flat broke newbies went to a more seasoned marketer and worked as an INTERN – getting taught the lessons they need for FREE in exchange for doing the work FOR the marketer teaching them.

Many times people have come to this forum asking for just that, and what typically happens?

Well, they don't receive positive replies. The responses are often negative, insulting and rude.

Some of the comments in this thread are amusing. Which is it, a good idea or ridicule the poor newbie. Make up your minds. I see a lot of posting for positive public image but lacking any true intent.

Not saying it's a good or bad idea but actions are worth more than words. If you want to help a newbie then do it.

Thanks
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I'm all about that bass.

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Marvin Johnston

13 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Many times people have come to this forum asking for just that, and what typically happens?

Well, they don't receive positive replies. The responses are often negative, insulting and rude.

True enough. And that is one reason the OP appealed to me.

What I've tried to do in the past is to get people together in person, find out if there is a good fit, and go from there. It was successful for the short term, but there were no long term successes. But *I* learned

.

I need to reread some of the posts in this thread as some really good points were made. Including possible trouble areas.

As I get more time, my plan is to post an ad on Craigslist with an appropriate headline to see if anyone who reads Craigslist is interested. If so, we can take it from there.

Another thought is to head over to some of the rescue missions, homeless shelters, drug/alcohol rehabilitation, etc. and find out if there is any interest there in this concept.

I still very much like this idea especially in this economy.

Marvin

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Mentoring for the "Flat Broke"

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