Quit your job and DON'T go to college..eh the brainwashing be real

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Baxter

Or they state the fact that you're making somebody else rich if you have one..

I've never understood why this is even an argument.

What's wrong with enriching someone else?

Isn't that what all affiliate marketers do? (the product owners make money)

Isn't that what all Kindle publishers do? (Amazon makes money)

Isn't that what marketers in general do when they pay for tools to build their businesses?

Also, you can tell these people aren't running a big business otherwise they wouldn't be bashing jobs as they would have needed their own employees, or at the very least, long-term freelancers / virtual assistants.

Regards,
Daniel

[ 2 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695286].message }}

agmccall

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Baxter

For some strange reason many people in the 'home based business' arena seem to bash the idea of having a job or going to college..

I have never seen that, could you give us an example or two

thanks

al

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695607].message }}

danieldesai 8 years ago

Originally Posted by agmccall

I have never seen that, could you give us an example or two

thanks

al

While I don't have any links to share right now, al, I can confirm that I personally know people in the "home based business" arena who bash those who are "a slave to a boss" and "wasting time pursuing a useless degree".

Most of these people are in direct sales / MLM companies, though.

It's quite amusing, actually - especially since those same people still work a job (nothing wrong with a job, it's just the irony that gets me).

Daniel
- [ 1 ] Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695684].message }}

kilgore

8 years ago

Originally Posted by agmccall

I have never seen that, could you give us an example or two

Maybe you missed this thread:

https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...marketing.html

Some quotes:

Originally Posted by writeaway

When it comes to certain sub-niches of affiliate marketing and online entrepreneurship, it appears the LESS FORMAL EDUCATION you have, the RICHER you become.

Originally Posted by ANDREIS

We will all say that it's important to go to college and all of that...but it seems going to college for 80% of people is unfortunately a waste of time.

Originally Posted by Billy The Kid

The internet contains more information than any college or university

Originally Posted by ShawnLim

"Formal education will make you a living; self-education will make you a fortune." - Jim Rohn

Originally Posted by RefuseToLose

You do not need a degree and I would actually advise getting a degree to do online marketing.

Most teaching tends to restrict your out of the box thinking.

Originally Posted by JuliaStein

Reality proves that the best education is self-education

[ 2 ] Thanks

Signature

<< This is not a sales pitch >>

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10696221].message }}

Devilfish168

8 years ago

actually I quit my 15 years job and into Full time marketing.

i only start like 2 or 3 years back , test , trial and error and still testing.

No doubt I do earn some money ..but not more than my full time job ( thus I also using my past 15 years saving for daily need also do some investment ). In fact now I cut down a lot leisure with friends. Weekends I even busy with marketing etc learning ..and doing but I like

perhaps I study IT last time , thus don't find it boring whole day sit in front my computer. I like exercise thus every day spend some time exercise at least keep myself fit and destress.

than continue my IM research etc.

I still learning . In IM I feel the most important still Traffic , target Real buyers. even you get them , use follow up email ...with good email follow up..

hard to say buyer will buy.

I just hope global economics improve and hope oil price up boast the economics etc

when people able to earn a lot .....on the same they also willing to spend a lot.

if the economic is bad , be prepare very hard to get buyers.

well this is my thoughts.

Thanks

Signature

Find The Job That Fits Your Life

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695727].message }}

discrat

8 years ago

Having my degree did enable me to get my foot in several lines of employment that I wouldn't have gotten without it. Plus, it is something that no one can ever take away from me

- Robert Andrew

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695731].message }}

Steve B

8 years ago

Good thread.

We often lose sight of all the benefits of having a well-rounded education besides those benefits that help to land employment.

Knowing how to write intelligently and professionally will help anyone in their online business.

Knowing how to do research (that you learn in college) is a plus for entrepreneurs.

Understanding simple mathematics can help you in your own business.

Gaining discipline and learning how to work hard to complete projects are two of the most important things I learned in college.

Certainly college isn't for everyone . . . but for those who can go or are already in college . . . I say "stick it out" and get your degree even if you plan to go into IM as a career.

Steve

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
SteveBrowneDirect

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695748].message }}

Devilfish168

8 years ago

Actually education is a must which link to economics.

just like internet marketing too.

Thanks

Signature

Find The Job That Fits Your Life

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695751].message }}

DABK

8 years ago

Applied knowledge is power. If you have not acquired knowledge, what do you apply?

College is a good way to get a lot of knowledge.

I know people who diss college... in my case, on religious grounds: time's best spent in church, they say; college don't do nothing for your eternal life.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695767].message }}

Kay King

8 years ago

college don't do nothing for your eternal life.

I don't buy into that one - and you shouldn't either. By pursuing higher education you are USING the potential you were "given".

The increased problem solving and income potential of a good education allows you to help others less fortunate.

Hard to argue with that reasoning, isn't it?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

Live life like someone left the gate open

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695821].message }}

DABK 8 years ago

Well, I know a bunch of Pentecostals and Baptists who'll gladly apply themselves for days on end. You want their phone number?

PS If they're not enough, I have a few other religions represented... But the Baptists and Pentecostals are related to me. I can vouch for their willingness to ignore logic.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Hard to argue with that reasoning, isn't it?
- [ 1 ] Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695984].message }}

HilleyConsolidated

8 years ago

Unfortunately, now a days you do pay for the degree. A lot of what they teach you in college can be learned on your own in the library if you have the self discipline. The problem then becomes how do you prove to potential employers or clients that you do actually know that information.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695983].message }}

DABK

8 years ago

You can, indeed, learn a lot from a library. You can, indeed, find what a particular college requires for a degree, locate the course descriptions, get your hands on the same books.

What you don't get that way is the part you learn from interacting with peers. I've learned a lot of the stuff I know better/differently from explaining it to/arguing about it with classmates.

Of course, if you can't afford it, get the part you get from books and try to find people to talk your newly acquired knowledge to death.

Originally Posted by HilleyConsolidated

Unfortunately, now a days you do pay for the degree. A lot of what they teach you in college can be learned on your own in the library if you have the self discipline. The problem then becomes how do you prove to potential employers or clients that you do actually know that information.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10695991].message }}

gregdavidson727

8 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

You can, indeed, learn a lot from a library. You can, indeed, find what a particular college requires for a degree, locate the course descriptions, get your hands on the same books.

What you don't get that way is the part you learn from interacting with peers. I've learned a lot of the stuff I know better/differently from explaining it to/arguing about it with classmates.

Of course, if you can't afford it, get the part you get from books and try to find people to talk your newly acquired knowledge to death.

You can also purchase older textbooks on Amazon for about $4 a piece.

Thanks

Signature

>>> CLICK HERE <<< ====> 2,000 NICHE E-BOOKS WITH MRR & PLR RIGHTS! JUST $2.99! <====

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10696048].message }}

gotthrowaway 8 years ago

Originally Posted by HilleyConsolidated

The problem then becomes how do you prove to potential employers or clients that you do actually know that information.

Blog it, perhaps? An idea I'm playing with: write on what I learn in my classes. Use those posts to build credibility, then go after tutoring clients on Wyzant. It's good money; but not for everyone.

Outside of freelancing/Internet Marketing: Writing on your studies might force you to gain an understanding of a topic you wouldn't have learned otherwise (the idea that you understand something once you can explain it to a 5 year old). To a potential employer, it can show a commitment to the subject matter.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10727845].message }}

gregdavidson727

8 years ago

It doesn't make much sense to go to college unless you plan on using your education. You have to be certain about what your intentions are before you even get started. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time and money. My sister went to college and I believe she has a bachelor's degree. The last time I spoke to her on the phone she told me has she has no intention of completing her studies anytime soon because she's satisfied with her current job which doesn't require an education.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

>>> CLICK HERE <<< ====> 2,000 NICHE E-BOOKS WITH MRR & PLR RIGHTS! JUST $2.99! <====

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10696045].message }}

michaelkoehler92

8 years ago

Security is always very important, so in a way I agree but also I think that if you're making good money online and see it as secure income it's ok to take the risk

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

-->Wolfgrowth.com - #1 Instagram Mass Story Viewer/Liker<--

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10696052].message }}

Andrew Fox

8 years ago

I agree, we need more 9-5ers.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

I love getting in trance just by hearing you talk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10696173].message }}

Jeff Baxter 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Fox

I agree, we need more 9-5ers.

No, the World needs more entrepreneurs because entrepreneurs create JOBS. What we don't need though is a bunch of people who can't pay rent or put food on the table for their kids because they were taught that having a job was bad and to chase the internet dream with no real success..
- Thanks
Signature

Consulting Masterclass | My Youtube Channel
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10696255].message }}

GetPLRhere

8 years ago

Good point, what's more significant is that silicon billionaires like the Google guys, Brin and Page, Facebook guys Zuckerberg and Saverin, and Yahoo founders Yang and Filos, all met in the college dorm rooms.

I think Bill Gates met Steve Ballmer at Harvard, while Steve Jobs met Wozniacki during their college days too. maybe.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

CLICK HERE TO GET NEW PLR VIDEOS THAT YOU CAN SELL FOR PROFIT
GetPLRhere.com - The "Go To" Place for New and Unique Private Label Rights Products

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10696230].message }}

TrickyDick 8 years ago

Originally Posted by GetPLRhere

I think Bill Gates met Steve Ballmer at Harvard, while Steve Jobs met Wozniacki during their college days too. maybe.

Incorrect on point two. Jobs met Woz because they lived in the same neighborhood.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10697201].message }}

ChrisBa

8 years ago

At the end of the day you need to do what's best for you. Some people would prefer to do the 9-5 thing and if that's what you chose then do what's best for you.

[ 3 ] Thanks

Signature

$ POPS GUIDE - YOUR FIRST CONVERSION GUARANTEED! $

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10696250].message }}

yukon

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Baxter

For some strange reason many people in the 'home based business' arena seem to bash the idea of having a job or going to college..

For a JOB "Just Over Broke" is what they typically call it..

Or they state the fact that you're making somebody else rich if you have one..

Soo even our doctors, nurses, lawyers, firefighters, teachers etc have all been duped!

Also, with this being graduation season, I've even seen on my timeline where mlmers are convincing their kids that going to college isn't the way to go. I assume that selling detox tea on social media is a better choice of life?

Anyways, I often roll my eyes when I see internet marketers bash having a job or education because it's often someone who has only been brainwashed to repeat what somebody else has said.

I remember there was one guy who followed this type of movement, quit his job with no real success and nearly lost his house. For those of you who might be reading this and have a day job that you're considering quitting in order to pursue your career on the interwebs or for the young bucks who are contemplating finishing or going to college, let me just give you a sincere reality check.

1.) KEEP YOUR DAYJOB!

The more security you have the BETTER and the less stressed you are when it comes to building your empire. I would even go as far as waiting until you've made at least your day job income 6 months in a row just to be completely sure you can quit comfortably..

I can't even imagine trying to build a business while I'm worried about if rent would be paid this month or not. Keep your job, pay your bills and work on your online business at the same time. Besides, you get health insurance!

2.) Go or STAY In College

While I don't have a big fancy degree, I often wish I would've finished for various reasons. Maybe I'll go back one day, who knows, but for the younger bucks on here who are either contemplating going to college or finishing listen up..

I wish I would've stayed mainly to have a better "social foundation". From my regrets, don't rob yourself of this experience! Now, is going to college and getting a degree necessary to become a successful entrepreneur? Absolutely not, but when you see the job and education bashers say things like "Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of college and he's a billionaire" just remember that Zuckerberg dropped out of HARVARD.

I'll rest my case..

You're assuming everyone else on the planet is living your life.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10696365].message }}

agmccall

8 years ago

@kilgore none of the quotes you mention "Bash" or "Put Down" anybody for going to college or getting a job, nor do they discourage it. They are all opinions about formal education or the need for it in internet marketing.

al

Thanks

Signature

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10697175].message }}

SpectateSwamp

8 years ago

Education is overrated. Too many Kids commit suicide because they don't make the grade.

The educated people seem to think the rest of us learn nothing while They are being schooled. How Dumb.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10709779].message }}

Zodiax

8 years ago

You think your job offers more security until you don't have it anymore.

[ 3 ] Thanks

Signature

'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
-Muhammad Ali

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10709818].message }}

socialentry

8 years ago

I think it depends a lot on the major and your abilities.

But yeah, this whole "Don't go to college" schtick is extremely harmful to society as a whole.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10709845].message }}

jv1999

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Baxter

For some strange reason many people in the 'home based business' arena seem to bash the idea of having a job or going to college..

For a JOB "Just Over Broke" is what they typically call it..

Or they state the fact that you're making somebody else rich if you have one..

Soo even our doctors, nurses, lawyers, firefighters, teachers etc have all been duped!

Also, with this being graduation season, I've even seen on my timeline where mlmers are convincing their kids that going to college isn't the way to go. I assume that selling detox tea on social media is a better choice of life?

Anyways, I often roll my eyes when I see internet marketers bash having a job or education because it's often someone who has only been brainwashed to repeat what somebody else has said.

I remember there was one guy who followed this type of movement, quit his job with no real success and nearly lost his house. For those of you who might be reading this and have a day job that you're considering quitting in order to pursue your career on the interwebs or for the young bucks who are contemplating finishing or going to college, let me just give you a sincere reality check.

1.) KEEP YOUR DAYJOB!

The more security you have the BETTER and the less stressed you are when it comes to building your empire. I would even go as far as waiting until you've made at least your day job income 6 months in a row just to be completely sure you can quit comfortably..

I can't even imagine trying to build a business while I'm worried about if rent would be paid this month or not. Keep your job, pay your bills and work on your online business at the same time. Besides, you get health insurance!

2.) Go or STAY In College

While I don't have a big fancy degree, I often wish I would've finished for various reasons. Maybe I'll go back one day, who knows, but for the younger bucks on here who are either contemplating going to college or finishing listen up..

I wish I would've stayed mainly to have a better "social foundation". From my regrets, don't rob yourself of this experience! Now, is going to college and getting a degree necessary to become a successful entrepreneur? Absolutely not, but when you see the job and education bashers say things like "Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of college and he's a billionaire" just remember that Zuckerberg dropped out of HARVARD.

I'll rest my case..

Nah, dude. Don't ever wish you went to college. It's legit a huge scam. I went to grad school, so I know what I'm talking about. Only go to college if you're planning on studying technical/scientific stuff

Otherwise, you can start freelancing when you're 16! (I mean art, digital art, writing, marketing and business too).

Why spend $14k-$30k a year from 18 - 22, when you can start out at 16 making $5k a year, building your resume, then by the time you're 18 (2 years later) you're being paid $1 / word, probably own your own online business, or being paid over $300 for one digital art project?

When it comes to the artsy stuff like writing, they don't care about your degrees -- they care about your work and your "credibility". Health mags would favor a writer who's had editorial experience or been published in national magazines than an MD who doesn't know how to write.

tl;dr don't go to college if you're doing artsy things. Go to college if you want a technical/scientific career, or if you want to go to be a lawyer (because that does require a degree).

[ 2 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10709862].message }}

tagiscom

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

You think your job offers more security until you don't have it anymore.

Yes, l am sure college has its place, but only to a point.

But it is also true that if you get a high paid job, then get retrenched, (like what happened in the AU Ford, car industry recently) then you are up s***creek to put it mildly.

It seems that if you want to work 9-5, then you need to have something else going on the side, so if the primary source of income disappears, you have a backup.

That might be collecting something or going online, but something is better than nothing.

Some guy with a mortgage and family losing his job, in AU, it is fast becoming a cliche.

Then taking on anything since their childrens futures are the most important thing,...employer's must love to hear that.

But unfortunately going online is very labor intensive.

So someone may end up being fired for taking too many sickles, since they are staying up late to get something moving.

You can't create wealth through making someone else wealthy.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Archimedes Forum, Sign up l won't bite

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10710421].message }}

Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Yes, l am sure college has its place, but only to a point.

But it is also true that if you get a high paid job, then get retrenched, (like what happened in the AU Ford, car industry recently) then you are up s***creek to put it mildly.

It seems that if you want to work 9-5, then you need to have something else going on the side, so if the primary source of income disappears, you have a backup.

That might be collecting something or going online, but something is better than nothing.

Some guy with a mortgage and family losing his job, in AU, it is fast becoming a cliche.

Then taking on anything since their childrens futures are the most important thing,...employer's must love to hear that.

But unfortunately going online is very labor intensive.

So someone may end up being fired for taking too many sickles, since they are staying up late to get something moving.

You can't create wealth through making someone else wealthy.

I disagree. The only way to create wealth is by making others rich.

Thanks

Signature

'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
-Muhammad Ali

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10710982].message }}

whateverpedia

8 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

You can't create wealth through making someone else wealthy.

Rubbish.

Back in the day I met a lot of financial advisers who were multi-millionaires. How did they get there? By making their clients multi-millionaires.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?

So that blind people can hate them as well.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10760378].message }}

tagiscom

8 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Rubbish.

Back in the day I met a lot of financial advisers who were multi-millionaires. How did they get there? By making their clients multi-millionaires.

Well, that sounds like commission work, l am talking about paid work with a ceiling.

People working their whole lives for one company, only to have that company go bust, happens quite a lot.

THen having the workers, walk away with little to nothing, whole the creator of the business, walks away with millions, also happens a lot.

The workers are up s*** creek, (usually too old to get anything else) while the original owner, walks away thinking, gee l might have to sell the holiday house, in Cairns and keep the Gold Coast one.

Not exactly suffering!

Thanks

Signature

Archimedes Forum, Sign up l won't bite

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10760527].message }}

yukon

Banned 8 years ago

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10711187].message }}

George Schwab 8 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon
- [ 1 ] Thanks
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10724113].message }}

AprilCT

8 years ago

Higher ed has its place, especially if the grade and high schools attended weren't top notch in the first place. Lack of education leaves too many people very vulnerable to making huge mistakes because they don't know any better. Those mistakes can be extremely expensive. Community colleges aren't that expensive and a two-year degree is a lot less expensive that the school of hard knocks.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10711434].message }}

tagiscom

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

I disagree. The only way to create wealth is by making others rich.

Yes, and no!

Making someone else rich by working for someone, while you don't, won't work.

Working in Amway, would work, well, probably?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Archimedes Forum, Sign up l won't bite

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10711452].message }}

Zodiax 8 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Yes, and no!

Making someone else rich by working for someone, while you don't, won't work.

Working in Amway, would work, well, probably?

Amway doesn't pay enough.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
Signature

'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
-Muhammad Ali
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10724121].message }}

eric w

8 years ago

I've been successful, despite going to college.

This idea of "you must go to college" is more ludicrous.

Most people go to college to get a job in the future (or a better job), not for education.

Go ahead and ask a college student..."Are you attending college only to educate yourself?"

I think the true brainwashing is telling people that they must go to college to get an education or that going to college is the best way to get educated or if you don't go to college then you aren't smart.

Also, just a note...I believe most of those billionaire names mentioned, like bill gates, were college dropouts..so what does that tell you....

list of billionaire college drop-outs

Ted Turner (Net worth: $2 billion)
Ralph Lauren.
Mark Zuckerberg.
Michael Dell.
Sheldon Adelson.
Larry Ellison.
Bill Gates.
Steve Jobs.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Click Here to Start Your Info Business in 30 min with FREE Tools
Click Here for Bay Strategies that netted me 4 Figures within 24 Hours!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10760332].message }}

DABK

8 years ago

Yet college grads make more money than high school grads, and people with advanced degrees make more than those who only have a college degree. And the difference in earning power seems to be increasing.
).
That's according the a Pew research center study (quotes here: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...l-grads-widens.

Those billionaires, did they drop out of college after 1 day or did they stick around and learn something? Did they drop out after or before they came up with their brilliant whatever they did to get them to be billionaire? Do you know for a fact they did not use anything they learned in college to propel themselves?

I know of family of 5 brothers, 1 year apart. One's got a master's degree, one dropped out of college after 3 years, one after 1 year, the other 2 are high school drop outs.

And the difference is huge, $17,000 a year. You can rent a 3-bedroom house around here from $15000 a year and up. In my neighborhood, they go for $24000. A 3-bedroom apartment goes for $16,800. And I'm in one of the nicer (though far from being Gold Coast) neighborhoods.

The richest is the one with 3 years of college, the 2nd richest the one with master's degree. There's is and always has been a huge difference between the drop outs and the ones with at least 3 years of college. Moral: it's not only about college but college does give you a better shot.

Originally Posted by eric w

I've been successful, despite going to college.

This idea of "you must go to college" is more ludicrous.

Most people go to college to get a job in the future (or a better job), not for education.

Go ahead and ask a college student..."Are you attending college only to educate yourself?"

I think the true brainwashing is telling people that they must go to college to get an education or that going to college is the best way to get educated or if you don't go to college then you aren't smart.

Also, just a note...I believe most of those billionaire names mentioned, like bill gates, were college dropouts..so what does that tell you....

list of billionaire college drop-outs

Ted Turner (Net worth: $2 billion)
Ralph Lauren.
Mark Zuckerberg.
Michael Dell.
Sheldon Adelson.
Larry Ellison.
Bill Gates.
Steve Jobs.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10760423].message }}

Joseph Bales

8 years ago

Look, it's all about planning your time,
You can learn PLENTY If not more than what you will learn in college, Via the internet, but the only issue is that you won't be receiving a degree.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10760961].message }}

Gamedais

8 years ago

School is always important. Yes, we can learn everything even not going to school but i's still different if you finished your course. It's a pride to somehow to be proud of. An achievement that pays off the hardships you went through to finished it finally