Nononsense thread..Non political...Non religious one!!!

[myob]

Originally Posted by seasoned

They pay what amounts to a handling fee! they DON'T pay spot, or anywhere near it. Right now, they pay less than 4% of spot!!!!!!!!!

Steve

So don't sell to the government. Selling in the commodities markets is the way to go these days!

[Indiana]

"ENTER THE DRAGON"
...Disclaimer...What is posted below is for financial information only it
is a "report" not a statement by me.

Get ready for the tsusami Paul -O)...Indy

"never mind tires" here is the dragon's response...
************************************************** *******************************
World faces hi-tech crunch as China eyes ban on rare metal exports

Beijing is drawing up plans to prohibit or restrict exports of rare earth metals that are produced only in China and play a vital role in cutting edge technology, from hybrid cars and catalytic converters, to superconductors, and precision-guided weapons.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Published: 5:58PM BST 24 Aug 2009



China mines over 95pc of the world?s rare earth minerals and is looking to hoard its resources.

A draft report by China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology has called for a total ban on foreign shipments of terbium, dysprosium, yttrium, thulium, and lutetium. Other metals such as neodymium, europium, cerium, and lanthanum will be restricted to a combined export quota of 35,000 tonnes a year, far below global needs…

World faces hi-tech crunch as China eyes ban on rare metal exports - Telegraph
************************************************** *****************************************
This weekend the BIS, Central Bank to the Central Bankers, says the Dirivatives should be moved to the books of the Clearing Houses with the Central Banks providing the capital (out of thin air) to backstop the clearing houses in the event of more "systemic risk", another slight of hand financial scam to make the banks appear solvent.

Meanwhile China, apparently bored with the paper shuffling, subterfuge and bogus accounting B.S. of the Investment Banks which magically became Commercial Banks with a wave of the puppet hand of Congress, has said "No Mas", take your various frauds and shove them. Do you blame them? No new money for Geithner/Obama and the corrupt Wall Street Houses get stiffed.

Meanwhile reports say Netanyahu flies secretly to Moscow in a private plane and engages in a shouting match with Putin. Got to have a WAR ready and on stand by don't you see?

Also, outfits like Goldman which have manipulated the metals markets for years on behalf of the Fiat Bankers are massively short metals. The inevitable outcome of the silent war between Fiat and Asset backed banking leaves all those mentioned above and the metal shorts up the creek with no paddle and facing collapse.

The one month delay Intel contained in the Poof update tonight originates in Europe. The decisions are made East of there. WE can and WE will check it out.

casper 9-13-09
************************************************** ***********************************

The fed is going down, there isn't any doubt about that along with the us dollar. The process is what the pain in the butt is. No, it couldn't just take a swan dive and peacefully go away and be replaced by what is already there, the constitutional treasury. We'll go thru the agonizing demise, piece by piece, as the chunks fall away so, the public can get the full impact and never again think the us runs the world. Many years ago, I was told to look at the fall of soviet union, as a model of what would happen in the us. The only difference is, the russian people were already dealing with a rough life so were conditioned to go thru the change. I just hope those who crossed over here haven't forgotten, what change looks like. Britain has been tied to our hip so, look out britainia, you're getting an attitude adjustment also. Humble pie don't taste too hot.

The intel that has come in here, in the last number of hours says, unless some miracle happens we are all looking at another month before this business is finally concluded. Yea, we'll finally get our money, that's a foregone conclusion, however, many of our brothers and sisters in america, will be experiencing 1929 on steriods. Those who have profited off the backs of the american people had to be addresed. Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, etc, are the one's who made the fed appear viable and had to get busted down to their shoetops in order to end this crap. The dragon is in the process of castrating them. Country after country have called for their gold to be returned, from london and ny, where they have been keeping some of their bullion for business. The word is, if you don't have gold and silver, you ain't doing business anymore, in the big world. This means, you can try to avoid basel 2/3 compliancy all you want but you'll end up sucking wind. There is no requirement to keep debt based societies going and that's all fiat systems. Old man bush...there ya go

People, check eastern news, while you can. Japan is readdressing all the post war contracts with the us since the new gov went into power. They aren't interested so much in all this globalism, nor are they down with all this nuclear stuff and they are calling into question having all of our nuke ships docking in their harbors, kind of like New Zealand did, years ago. Mankind has not yet found a peaceful and non polluting method of using that energy, not that it's unavailable. Too many neanderthals running around still trying to make a weapon out of anything...maybe I go too far, those folks were just trying to survive a hostile environment. This group is worse because they don't care.

Every president for years has been 'chosen' since the us corp took control in 1871. Now, all you smarties that think you know everything, who chose this president...especially under the present situation? This country was taken with a coup in 2000, it has been 'recouped', who did it and why? Old man bush is running(crawling more like it) and cheney got kicked under the bus, who did it? Junior had another gallon of bad milk to drink last week, who served it up?? In a few words, the same folks who are taking this country down and bringing it back up from the bottom.

Each and everyone of us have work to do, so take a deep breath, we got a little more time before this is done, and frankly many will need it, to be ready to fasten their heads on their shoulders because, this has never happened before. Not in the history of modern banking. I just have to say one more thing because I just can help it...the dragon clan has all modern bankers by the cajones, name who ever you want and that includes anybody in isreal. If you don't know that, you're about to find out, as the pm just learned when he went to moscow, trying to get a pass on blowing up iran.

POOF Report: September 13, 2009
************************************************** *************

But I Thought It Was Just A "Panic"?
Sunday, September 13. 2009

Posted by Karl Denninger in Macro Economics at 16:35

Or so we were told...

Remember, the values at which subprime mortgage bonds were trading at reflected "irrational fear" and "unreasonable expectations of default."

Really?

As of last week, the ABX index of sub-prime mortgage debt showed that AAA-rated securities from early 2007 were trading at 28 cents on the dollar – AA was at 4 cents, near all-time lows. No one can say that $2 trillion (£1.2 trillion) of sub-prime and Alt-A debt is still trading at panic levels, exaggerating losses. The dust has settled. What we can see is that creditors will never recoup their money.

More than a year later, it is clear: There was no panic; this was a JUSTIFIED level of trading and reflects the ugly reality - the investors in those bonds will NEVER get their money back.

They were swindled, to be blunt. "AA" bonds trading at 4 cents and "AAA" at 28? Remember folks, "AAA" credits are supposed to have a probability of default roughly equivalent to that of the Sun colliding with the earth.

There is not now and never was a "liquidity" problem. The problem is, has been, and continues to be a bankruptcy problem. Individuals, corporations and even governments are in fact insolvent. Most banks are and were insolvent….

The Market Ticker
************************************************** ******************************

ROFL! China Tells IBs: Stuff It!
Monday, August 31. 2009

Posted by Karl Denninger in Editorial at 20:45

This is hilarious!

The State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, the regulator and nominal shareholder for state-owned enterprises (SOEs), told six foreign banks that SOEs reserved the right to default on contracts, Caijing magazine quoted an unnamed industry source as saying in an article published on Saturday.

See what lawless behavior gets you folks?

You start this crap - selling worthless paper, intentionally turning a blind eye to fraud, profiting from fraud, screwing consumers and foreigners alike and guess what?

BINGO! A foreign government that runs a command economy says "Ok, you think that was cute? Try this!"

For banks that are hoping to sell more derivatives hedges in China, the world's fastest-expanding major economy and top commodities consumer, the danger goes beyond the immediate risk to existing contracts to the longer-term precedent that suggests Chinese companies can simply renege on deals when they like.

Oh, so our wonderful banks have been over there peddling their junk in Beijing too eh? Derivatives you say?...

The Market Ticker
************************************************** *************************

[myob]

Indy,

You should do some research before you copy and paste things you know little about. China is using more and more of the rare earth metals internally for their own products that they export. They just happen to be using this announcement as a tit-for-tat response in retaliation for our recent tariffs on Chinas' tires and other imports. The fact is, many US companies that manufacture using such raw materials are moving to China.

We have been buying these metals from China for only one reason - it is extremely damaging to the environment to extract, and we would naturally much prefer for the Chinese to pollute their own country rather than using these dangerous processes in other countries where these rare earth metals are also available such as Australia, Canada, Eastern Europe, and California and Alaska.

And why is it that since the Fed is going down, gold coins are still being hawked all over the internet and in newspapers, magazines, radio and on TV? They gladly accept worthless US currency in exchange for gold coins. Hmmmm.... are they really that stupid? Don't they know these dollars are worthless compared to the "real" value of gold?

[Indiana]

Level 2 info...Indy

Solar Physicist Predicts Ice Age. What happened to global warming?

Timo Niroma, a physicist from Finland, publishes a Solar Report each month. He has given his permission to use it and distribute it to all.




THE CYCLE GOES AT THE MOMENT BELOW DALTON LEVEL


In the following Timo discusses the sunspot activity of the new, as yet not begun, cycle #24:
"So the activity of the cycle 24 has still been greatest in October-November 2008
by length (2 times 8 days). Also by size of the together 4 of size 80, 3
appeared in November 2008, and now one in June 2009.
Altogether there were six sunspot groups in June, but the five after the decent
spot in the beginning of June lasted from 1 to 3 days. The sunspot number of May
was 2.6.
From July 2008 to June 2009 the sunspot number has varied from 0.5 (July and
August 2008) to 4.1 (November 2008). December 2008 and March 2009 were also very
quiet (0.8 and 0.7). Besides in November the sunspot number was higher than in
June 2009 in October 2008 (2.9) and in May 2009 (2.9). So the 12 month activity
can be described as: ---++-----+. No trend so far."
The upshot of this is that there has no indication that the new cycle is about to start. One needs to know that as solar cycles drag on, the likelyhood becomes greater that the next cycle will be weaker. That translates to a cooler climate.

The following is interesting, as Timo says, because the previous cycle although not extraordinary had a much stronger build up than the new cycle #24. Here he describes the differences.
"It is interesting to note that during the previous cycle change 22/23 in 1996
there were only two months with SSN below 3 (September and October 1996). During
the on-going minimum there has been already 17 months below 3, 3 in 2007, 8 in
2008 and all 6 thus far in 2009 (i.e. all 2009 numbers up (until) today)."
What is being discussed next is the magnetic flux or intensity which is a strong indicator of climate. The 11 years is significant in that it is the mean of the solar cycle length. A curious point here is that few cycles are ever 11 years long but are either longer or shorter. Not sure why that is but it is curious. What he is saying is that during the previous cycle's minimum in 1995 and 1996, the magnetic flux was the same as the value 11 years later , at a time when the new cycle should be thinking of getting underway. However, at that point the divergence between the two cycles became evident. Cycle #24 is coming in like a lamb.
"The 10.7 cm fluxes of the sunspots were nearly equal at a distance of 11 years
in 1995-1996 versus 2006-2007:
1995 77 / 2006 80
1996 72 / 2007 73 (1996 was minimum between cycles 22/23)
And so began a dramatic separation in the solar magnetic flux. The cycle 23
began with vengeance in 1997, but the cycle 24 did not in 2008. In fact the
first and almost only decent spots in October-November 2008 did not affect the
flux, which in fact made its all-time (since late 1940's when first measured)
low in November-December 2008".
The number list that follows shows that 1997 and 2008 show a significantly lower intensity for the current minimum. Around 30% lower.
Here we find that we have to go back to some pretty cold times to find a similar solar pattern. The calculation of length of the current cycle #23 comes from the fact that you can only tell when a cycle is over, when the spots associated with the new cycle overpower the spots with the old cycle. Old cycle sunspots are observed near the solar equator whereas the new cycle sunspots are in the mid to high latitude areas (like Montreal on Earth) and are of opposite polarity magnetically.

"The yearly spot value of 2007 was already only 7.6 which is below the previous
minimum in 1996 (with 8.6). The value dropped to 2.6 in 2008 and the smoothed
value at the moment is 1.7 (December 2008). (In December 2007 it was 5.0 .) We
must go to the year 1913 to find a lower smoothed value (1.5). The November 2008
value means that the cycle 23 has at least a length of 12.6 years.
There has been only 2 cycles since 1749 longer than the cycle 23, the cycle 4
(1784-1798) just before the Dalton minimum and the cycle 6 (1810-1823 or the
second of the Dalton cycles). The cycle 9 (1843-1856) had about the same length
as we have now achieved (12.5 years). It began the series of 5 Jovian (Jupiter) cycles and
a cool climate in 1856-1913 (the Damon minimum)".

I won't go into all the details here, but the IPCC looks at solar irradiance as the only factor that determines the Sun's ability to warm the Earth's climate. If you count them up here, there are many other factors to be considered and they are all at an extreme low compared to our recent past. "Recent" is a relative term not indicating the past 10 or 20 years.
"Now what do we have:

1. Livingston-Penn observations that the magnetic strength
of the sunspots irrespective of their amount has linearly declined since at
least 1990 leading the spots vanishing in 2014 or 2015 if the trend continues.

2. A 50-year low in solar wind pressure: Measurements by the Ulysses spacecraft
reveal a 20% drop in solar wind pressure since the mid-1990's.

3. A 12 year low
in solar irradiance: the sun's brightness has dropped a whopping 6% at extreme
UV wavelengths since the solar minimum of 1996.

4. A 55-year low in solar radio
wavelengths. The lessening of radio emissions seems to be an indication of
weakness in the sun's global magnetic field.

5. The all-time low (since Maunder
minimum) of Gleissberg cycle in 2005 (72 years).

6. Ap Index very low.

7. TSI
(Total Solar Irradiance) at its lowest since satellite observations began in
1979 (1365 Watts)".

So here we start to get to the meat of the report. If you look at the data, there appears to be a cycle of 210 years at work here. This, by the way, is an often repeated cycle length for the Sun which has many cycles of various lengths.

"Autocorrelation of the sunspots since 1760 gives the highest correlation as 210
years.

The Dalton minimum began in 1798".
Remember Dalton means, "Coooooold, Brrrr! Then we have this:
"The yearly sunspot numbers of 1795-1798 were 21, 16, 6.4 and 4.1,


corresponding values for 2005-2008 were 30, 15, 7.6 and 2.8.

The first full
Dalton year or 1799, had a SSN value of 6.8.

The SSN of the first 6 months of
2009 is 1.7".

The progressions illustrate that there is a similarity between the years prior to the Dalton, and the minimum leading up to the cycle #24 but lower than those leading up to the Dalton.
Next is an interesting list of Climatic periods in our past on Earth, all of which correlate with solar parameters at the time. Folks back then recorded a tremendous amount of information about the Sun and there were also proxy measurements available.

"Well, there was the 300-year Roman Optimum in 100 BC to AD 200, the 200-year
oscillation 200-900 (200 cold, 300 warm, 400 cold, 600-900 cold), the 300-year
Medieval Optimum 900-1200 (with some colder spells plus warm aftermaths), the
300-year Little Ice Age 1400-1700, the 300-year "Global Warming" 1700-2005 (with
some drawbacks especially in the 1800's). A NEW LIA WITH SPÖRER AND MAUNDER IN
2005-2300???"
That's 300 years of cold, in case you missed it! The Maunder minimum was the bottom of the Little Ice Age from which all IPCC temperature charts begin. That is because it was coldest then and makes the warming look worse. Had they started their charts during the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) we would be wondering why it is still so cool. Like when are we going to get to the good stuff.
And then we get the punch line:

"THE CYCLE 24 HAS NOW GONE CLEARLY BELOW DALTON LEVEL."

This is pretty strong evidence. Had you been reading these reports for a few years you would have seen that Timo has been very conservative in his predictions. His earlier predictions were much less severe but trust me, you would be a lot happier with global warming than you will be with a Maunder type solar event.

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by myob

Indy,

You should do some research before you copy and paste things you know little about. China is using more and more of the rare earth metals internally for their own products that they export. They just happen to be using this announcement as a tit-for-tat response in retaliation for our recent tariffs on Chinas' tires and other imports. The fact is, many US companies that manufacture using such raw materials are moving to China.

We have been buying these metals from China for only one reason - it is extremely damaging to the environment to extract, and we would naturally much prefer for the Chinese to pollute their own country rather than using these dangerous processes in other countries where these rare earth metals are also available such as Australia, Canada, Eastern Europe, and California and Alaska.

And why is it that since the Fed is going down, gold coins are still being hawked all over the internet and in newspapers, magazines, radio and on TV? They gladly accept worthless US currency in exchange for gold coins. Hmmmm.... are they really that stupid? Don't they know these dollars are worthless compared to the "real" value of gold?

yeah but that doesnt sounds as dark and sinister now does it

[Indiana]

"They just happen to be using this announcement as a tit-for-tat response in retaliation for our recent tariffs on Chinas' tires and other imports."

Well of course they are Paul...Thats a given...The name of game is "mexican standoff"

"China is using more and more of the rare earth metals internally for their own products that they export."

Export???...In what????




The biggest and most secretive gathering of ships in maritime history lies at anchor east of Singapore. Never before photographed, it is bigger than the U.S. and British navies combined but has no crew, no cargo and no destination – and is why your Christmas stocking may be on the light side this year.

>

Fascinating article by Simon Parry in the Daily Mail this evening on the Ghost Fleet of Singapore — 100s of empty container ships sidelined by the recession.

Excerpt:

Here, on a sleepy stretch of shoreline at the far end of Asia, is surely the biggest and most secretive gathering of ships in maritime history. Their numbers are equivalent to the entire British and American navies combined; their tonnage is far greater. Container ships, bulk carriers, oil tankers – all should be steaming fully laden between China, Britain, Europe and the US, stocking camera shops, PC Worlds and Argos depots ahead of the retail pandemonium of 2009. But their water has been stolen.

They are a powerful and tangible representation of the hurricanes that have been wrought by the global economic crisis; an iron curtain drawn along the coastline of the southern edge of Malaysia’s rural Johor state, 50 miles east of Singapore harbour . . .

It is so far off the beaten track that nobody ever really comes close, which is why these ships are here. The world’s ship owners and government economists would prefer you not to see this symbol of the depths of the plague still crippling the world’s economies.

So they have been quietly retired to this equatorial backwater, to be maintained only by a handful of bored sailors. The skeleton crews are left alone to fend off the ever-present threats of piracy and collisions in the congested waters as the hulls gather rust and seaweed at what should be their busiest time of year.

>
The ‘ghost fleet’ near Singapore.

1212013-06435781000005DC-710_634x403
World shipping is tracked by satellite service Vesseltracker

1212013-06440266000005DC-60_634x417

>

Source:
Revealed: The ghost fleet of the recession
SIMON PARRY
The Mail, 13th September 2009
Revealed: The ghost fleet of the recession | Mail Online

[myob]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Level 2 info...Indy

Solar Physicist Predicts Ice Age. What happened to global warming?

Timo Niroma, a physicist from Finland, publishes a Solar Report each month. He has given his permission to use it and distribute it to all.




THE CYCLE GOES AT THE MOMENT BELOW DALTON LEVEL


In the following Timo discusses the sunspot activity of the new, as yet not begun, cycle #24: blah blah blah .....

Wow, Indy you are always such a ray of sunshine! The fact is, sunspot activiity has not been proven to be connected with climate change on earth. It does not scientifically explain the recent warming trend over the last century. Climatology is still little understood, as there are many many other factors affecting it besides sunspots.

However, there will be a satellite scheduled to be launched next month to study this sunspot/climate correlation and to make more precise measurements.

Solar Activity And Climate Change: New Sun-Watching Satellite To Monitor Sunlight Fluctuations

As always, though, I enjoy your gloom and doom outlook on science, finance, the cosmos, aliens, prophecy and other topics from your esoteric sources.

(The blah blah blah was added by me as a full summary of the quote)

[Indiana]

"The fact is, sunspot activiity has not been proven to be connected with climate change on earth. "

Rubbish Paul ...What are you reading?...Try Wine...The grand cru...Best wine correspond
with the sunspot actvity...Believe me here in france they know their sunspots...Now I can see the sun as a concious living sentient being like you and me...Given the increase in matter in the solar system...What would you do? "Bring it on" or regulate the influx in order to preservse the life...Or be an inanimete engine that is without thought nor care

and given the info..Thats not whats going down here...The sun has regulated the influx of matter to prevent hyperburn just a theory an observation...In the suns we remember in the planet we forget...Indy

[myob]

Originally Posted by Indiana

"They just happen to be using this announcement as a tit-for-tat response in retaliation for our recent tariffs on Chinas' tires and other imports."

Well of course they are Paul...Thats a given...The name of game is "mexican standoff"

"China is using more and more of the rare earth metals internally for their own products that they export."

Export???...In what????

This game between China and the US is called a "Mexican Standoff"? LOL!

China is manufacturing for example high-performance electric motors for use in everything from industry, wind turbines, to hybrid automobiles using rare earth elements. The biggest growth industry is in the alternative energy production such as solar cells and wind turbines. Magnets made from rare earth metals are some of the most powerful and are being used in [our military; rockests and missiles], high tech devices, hand tools, and power generators. Some very specific examples that I am very familiar with is the electric motor used in the Prius hybrid car, and Chevrolet Volt, which requires 2 to 4 pounds of neodymium.

This has all been anticipated by industry analysts, and within 3 years China will have a comparatively minor role in supplying rare earth metals to critical industries and the US military.

[myob]

Originally Posted by Indiana

"The fact is, sunspot activiity has not been proven to be connected with climate change on earth. "

Rubbish Paul ...What are you reading?...

Just the facts. Climate is a very complex phenomena, and if you try to tell scientists that climate change can be predicted by counting the sunspots, and that the sun is a conscious living sentient being like you and me, I suspect they might think you're on some of that "grand cru" of yours.

[Indiana]

"Climate is a very complex phenomena,"

Correct Paul...

As for the sun...Here is a message...No link yet I have put it online...-O)...WARNING LEVEL 1..."May interfere with your space time continium" be warned!!!!

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by myob

So don't sell to the government. Selling in the commodities markets is the way to go these days!

Maybe you should read up! There was *******NO******* market! It was a FELONY to own/sell/buy gold!

Got that!?

You sell at a HUGE loss to the government, or run the risks of fines and being THROWN IN JAIL!!!!

Steve

[myob]

Originally Posted by Indiana

"Climate is a very complex phenomena,"

Correct Paul...

As for the sun...Here is a message...No link yet I have put it online...-O)...WARNING LEVEL 1..."May interfere with your space time continium" be warned!!!!

Oh, my! That does seem to explain why suddenly my quaternion coordinates are getting bent all out of shape, my tachyons are shaking, my (G?) strings are vibrating, and there is some dark matter escaping out of my relatively black hole. Could this just be a quark?

[myob]

Originally Posted by seasoned

Maybe you should read up! There was *******NO******* market! It was a FELONY to own/sell/buy gold!

Got that!?

You sell at a HUGE loss to the government, or run the risks of fines and being THROWN IN JAIL!!!!

Steve

Partially true. It was a FELONY to own/sell/buy gold, but no one was ever punished for owning gold. In fact, savy investors and speculators did quite well in the London gold market, until legal ownership was "officially" reinstated in 1975.

Got that!?

[HeySal]

Paul - natural elements don't always just turn up somewhere because you feel it would be better to mine your own. They don't understand the stock market - they are found in the abundance and in the locations that they occur naturally and you can't just open mines that produce adequate amounts just because of trade difficulties. Much of what has been listed here are rare earth elements - they aren't like gold which is about anywhere you decide to hunt and invest.

Here' my take on that issue.

Lanthanite/carbonate of cerium/Neodymite - are the same thing as Carbonate of Lanthanum Cripes - I hope China isn't hinging it's trade sanctions on that crap! It may sound like a good game, but that stuff isn't that hard to dig up.

But then you get to Lutetium - that is about the spendiest of any mineral going. It's radioactive, too. That is probably why we haven't processed much -- too expensive to extract as long as we have a supply coming. There are other countries you can get it from - some from the US, but it's about the rarest of the minerals so I don't think that we could separate enough out on our own - maybe if Brazil, India, and Australia were to concentrate on production if China halted it's export we could still produce enough
but if not, certain industries would be severely limited. Period.

Europium - is used in Nuclear fission. Any doubts that anyone producing massive amounts of that has a bit of power? Fortunately, there's enough in California to supply at least the US with their needs, and it's an American company with the mine, so all China will do if they want to get jiggy with that is...uh...lose import money.

Yttrium - Yttrite/Yttrita/ Gadolinite Is common but needs processing as well. If China has processors we probably just didn't bother as long as we had a supply. We can process that stuff - same with terbium, which is about the same in occurrence - also needs to be processed. But building processors will take time. It would mean jobs and
some funds for some American mining concerns so all that will do is temporarily put a crimp on the markets that use that mineral and will raise the price substantially - unfortunately, that means technology will suffer, so it's not a good thing.

Thulium - this is another that is rare and needs processing to obtain in pure form. China is the main producer of this one, but it can be processed from deposits in the US and Scandinavia, and probably elsewhere. Having China stop export would do nothing but drive up the prices, and render a huge profit potential to US producers.
There's no guarantee that we could actually produce enough either - but if we could, we wouldn't be exporting either.

So all in all, what I am saying is China can cause some damage by restricting export - even if only temporarily. Once other nations kick in processing, they can probably manufacture enough pure mineral to suffice, at least until sources start to dry up - which they can also do in China if they continue production at present rates anyway.
You don't have unlimited supplies of rare earth minerals.

Being that a lot of those minerals are only trace minerals in the first place, the smart country that is dependent on them at all would be to start investigating alternative sources or alternative technologies that will take them out of international independence.

I think any country that has dependencies on any other country right now needs to sit down and get real about what they can do to become independent. Right now we are only discussing minerals that allow for weapons and advanced technologies. What about countries that can't even feed their own populations? It seems time they better figure that one out real fast because their populations are already over carrying capacity and increasing at a time that there may be global shut downs of exports. Rice was already effected. What happens if a cold streak kills crops in groves enough that countries refuse to meet export demands? What happens in countries like Haiti where their population has already stripped their rainforests for fuel during the last fuel hike? They don't just need fuel for heat - their native grains have to be cooked to be rendered edible. Any country that is Haiti's resource for fuel this winter can
actually kill off much of that population by either cranking prices up beyond what the people can deal with or by refusing shipment. They don't have enough forestry left to furnish fuel for their whole population if fuel trades are shut down. The survivors would strip the last of what forestry there is in one season - and that can throw the entire earth eco-system into a tailspin as well by further changing climate patterns.

There is no viable trade off any more and I think we are going to see some just shocking economic actions ever witnessed evolve in the near future. There isn't a country on the map that doesn't know what country they can slam a trade embargo against and not reap some real sweet havoc for it. I think we are going to see an economic war that is going to literally dwarf any other war we have ever seen. I think that everyone is about to learn what the true power of money is all about.

China is just putting the hammer on technology and nuclear power with their move. While we can recover - it's going to definitely be a huge blast to our economy. All of those new industries that are predicted to be opening jobs are going to be put on a temporary limbo and with the rate of unemployment on the rise, the domino effect can be catastrophic.

[myob]

Originally Posted by HeySal

Paul - natural elements don't always just turn up somewhere because you feel it would be better to mine your own. They don't understand the stock market - they are found in the abundance and in the locations that they occur naturally and you can't just open mines that produce adequate amounts just because of trade difficulties. Much of what has been listed here are rare earth elements - they aren't like gold which is about anywhere you decide to hunt and invest.

I did not mean just "natural elements" at all. What I was describing was strategic rare earth elements, of which China is not the only source. But because of their cheap labor and seemingly unbounded willingness to pollute their own country to extract these elements, why should we go anywhere else? Australia, Eastern Europe and even parts of the US can take up the slack for sourcing if necessary. There are also technically feasible, albeit more expensive, alternatives.

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by myob

Partially true. It was a FELONY to own/sell/buy gold, but no one was ever punished for owning gold. In fact, savy investors and speculators did quite in the London gold market, until legal ownership was "officially" reinstated in 1975.

Got that!?

That law (in the US) is still a law and on the books - it's just not active at the moment. It was never repealed. It was Temporarily suspended.

And no - I don't remember hearing anything about sanctions - but they did actually go home to home in some places (quite a few of them) and collect the gold. That's why treasure hunters today find so many old gold coins and artifacts from that era - people were hiding it from the collectors. Unfortunately - they can't do that today as they have equipment that will allow them to just point and locate. I know the guy that made that and sold it to the military. IF they decide they want your gold - all they have to do is activate the law, point, locate, and grab. There won't be any hiding it this time around.

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by myob

I did not mean just "natural elements" at all. What I was describing was strategic rare earth elements, of which China is not the only source. But because of their cheap labor and seemingly unbounded willingness to pollute their own country to extract these elements, why should we go anywhere else? Australia, Eastern Europe and even parts of the US can take up the slack for sourcing if necessary. There are also technically feasible, albeit more expensive, alternatives.

China is the source of many that occur in abundance enough to mine them.
You have to be able to account for the cost of mining and if it's costing twice to mine them than they can get for them, the mine isn't happening. We don't not mine them because of the environmental damage - we don't mine them because there isn't enough mineral we can isolate to offset costs. That is why China was producing - they have the concentrations of the elements in the necessary amount needed. We don't have the occurrence necessary to push several of those already listed - and those listed ARE strategic.

Also - many of these earth elements are associated - that is occur in tandem with other elements - the mines from which we can draw these elements are already working. No extra damage necessary. They are just pulling other minerals from them at the time. Many of the occur with Uranium, some more likely with platinum group (which is rare enough on its own). If push came to shove we could start extracting any of these materials from any mine already being worked - IF that mineral occurs there at all. Just because a mineral occurs with another at one location, it's no guarantee you will find them every time. At this point we are right back to cost efficiency.

It doesn't matter how you want to run the terminology, natural or strategic - unless those elements can be manufactured artificially, they are in limited supply in a limited amount of areas. We just don't HAVE enough of a few of them that are extremely "strategic". That's all - we just don't have enough.

Thulium, for example, is so extremely rare it's ridiculous to even think about any source other than China. It doesn't matter what damage you will or will not do if you try to mine it from any other sources -- there just isn't another source. You'd have to rip up the whole freakin' earth and not replace what China has ...it's THAT rare. Unfortunately - we built technology that works on THAT mineral. Okay - so now if we don't have that mineral, we have to either find another one that will work (which many researchers are doing at this minute) or stop producing anything that requires the element to produce. Mines or no mines -- you don't have Thulium unless you have trade with China - -and every semantic argument, every hope, prayer, or justification for the locations of the mines will not change that fact.

[Patrician]

Hey I am proud of the tariff and it is NOT TIT FOR TAT.

For years now China has had 'preferred nation status' - (they do not pay the same duty we have to pay for our stuff) -

China has flooded this country with crap products, while our industries have been shut down and Americans disenfranchised. Then they come in and undersell whatever we have left.

Ever see the programs about the huge shipping container cities we have by the airports and shipyards? Forever they come over here with China's goods and go back with our goods. Well guess what? They don't go back anymore - they just come in.

They have literally miles of these containers - the only thing to do with them is make homeless shelters for all the unemployed Americans.

period.

[myob]

Originally Posted by HeySal

That law (in the US) is still a law and on the books - it's just not active at the moment. It was never repealed. It was Temporarily suspended.

And no - I don't remember hearing anything about sanctions - but they did actually go home to home in some places (quite a few of them) and collect the gold. That's why treasure hunters today find so many old gold coins and artifacts from that era - people were hiding it from the collectors. Unfortunately - they can't do that today as they have equipment that will allow them to just point and locate. I know the guy that made that and sold it to the military. IF they decide they want your gold - all they have to do is activate the law, point, locate, and grab. There won't be any hiding it this time around.

Excuse me? The law did not say you could not own any gold at all. Private citizens were actually allowed to own up to 5 troy oz; more than that was considered "hoarding" and punishable by up to $10,000 (about $170,000 in today's dollars) and/or 10 years in prison. Despite all the rumors, I have never heard confirmed incidents where citizens were hunted down and their gold confiscated.

The government did not go around siezing gold, it was a "voluntary" turnover (admittedly under the threat of punishment), for which citizens were paid. Much of the gold was actually recovered by Treasury agents from all the failed banks were people had placed their gold in safe deposit boxes. There were no prosecutions or sentencing.

And that laughable anecdote of some kind of gold detection equipment that was developed by an aquaintance of yours, then sold to the military for a hypothetical future enactment and enforcement of this law says more about your unfounded, chronic paranoia rather than any of the real facts.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Patrician

Hey I am proud of the tariff and it is NOT TIT FOR TAT.

For years now China has had 'preferred nation status' - (they do not pay the same duty we have to pay for our stuff) -

China has flooded this country with crap products, while our industries have been shut down and Americans disenfranchised. Then they come in and undersell whatever we have left.

Ever see the programs about the huge shipping container cities we have by the airports and shipyards? Forever they come over here with China's goods and go back with our goods. Well guess what? They don't go back anymore - they just come in.

They have literally miles of these containers - the only thing to do with them is make homeless shelters for all the unemployed Americans.

period.

Yeah, people speak of corporate welfare, and the rescinding of duties is the ULTIMATE!

I have ALWAYS hated NAFTA, GATT, and similar things. I don't know what shocked me MORE about NAFTA! That *I* agreed with the unions and the democrats, or that one democrat president, ONCE AGAIN, failed to do what I thought was right even though so many in his party DID want to do it. Even a stopped analog clock can be right twice a day.

And giving an ENEMY that is trying to POISON our pets, children, and even ADULTS preferential treatment? COME ON! If I had a child, I would HAPPILY pay a higher price to avoid the lead and arsnic in toys! I would GLADLY pay more to avoid the poisons in pet food. I wonder what stuff we DIDN'T catch!

And the mexicans backhaul stuff(like ship pesticides to mexico, and food here in the SAME trucks without cleaning!)! NAFTA says that is OK, and we do NO inspections, etc...

Steve

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by myob

And that laughable anecdote of some kind of gold detection equipment that was developed by an aquaintance of yours, then sold to the military for a hypothetical future enactment and enforcement of this law says more about your unfounded, chronic paranoia rather than any of the real facts.

I DID hear of fines imposed, banks checked, etc...

As for heysals anecdote, I never saw such a thing. The ability to detect gold, and discern that it could be gold, has been in the public domain for at least decades though. It is limited to a few yards though, and works best if there is a fair amount, etc...

Obviously, it was used in "metal detectors" for private hunters.

Who knows though? The USNavy sold a LOUSY translation program to france for $10,000! The US government paid over 100 million dollars to a few coastal states to replace beach sand! I forget how many MILLIONS they paid to research WOOD!!!!! WHY do they want to research WOOD!?!? HECK, *I* could probably tell them a lot for a FRACTION of that!

Steve

[myob]

Originally Posted by seasoned

... As for heysals anecdote, I never saw such a thing. The ability to detect gold, and discern that it could be gold, has been in the public domain for at least decades though. It is limited to a few yards though, and works best if there is a fair amount, etc...

Obviously, it was used in "metal detectors" for private hunters. ...

You and Sal always crack me up. The cops in my neighborhood can't even catch the illegal drug smugglers. So when gold becomes illegal, and then someone ever shows up here in the 'hood with that kind of equipment strapped on, all the gold for miles around would suddenly vanish. LOL!

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by myob

You and Sal always crack me up. The cops in my neighborhood can't even catch the illegal drug smugglers. So when gold becomes illegal, and then someone ever shows up here in the 'hood with that kind of equipment strapped on, all the gold for miles around would suddenly vanish. LOL!

She said it would actually TRANSFER the gold!?!?!? What I said was fact, but it merely DETECTS the gold(over MAYBE a few yards(1 yard is approx 1 meter)), and tells you if it MIGHT be gold. you STILL have to pin it down, and get the gold YOURSELF!

BESIDES, even if they COULD transport gold, it would be DANGEROUS! Who knows WHERE gold, or a similar material is?

Steve

[Dave Patterson]

Originally Posted by myob

The cops in my neighborhood can't even catch the illegal drug smugglers.

There's several reasons drug smugglers aren't "caught" and not being "able to" isn't one of them...

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by seasoned

I DID hear of fines imposed, banks checked, etc...

As for heysals anecdote, I never saw such a thing. The ability to detect gold, and discern that it could be gold, has been in the public domain for at least decades though. It is limited to a few yards though, and works best if there is a fair amount, etc...

Obviously, it was used in "metal detectors" for private hunters.

Who knows though? The USNavy sold a LOUSY translation program to france for $10,000! The US government paid over 100 million dollars to a few coastal states to replace beach sand! I forget how many MILLIONS they paid to research WOOD!!!!! WHY do they want to research WOOD!?!? HECK, *I* could probably tell them a lot for a FRACTION of that!

Steve

Steve - a physicist pal of mine, and real funny guy, btw, had this life long voova over the tri-corder on star trek so he invented it. He recently sold one beaucoup number of them to the mililitary and is enjoying incredible windfalls of wealth from this gadget.

There is no, "might be" to this thing. It works via a process called atomic signaturing. His first applications were to detect oil for a few companies - always successful, and to date the carving on a stone for a archaeologist pal of his. Now these machines are mucho $$ for him to say the least.

If you are using one of these things - the top strength model can detect gold at the depth and circumference of a mile. No questions asked. The lightweight model is only 50 feet. It will also detect other minerals, of course. The military will be using it to detect the rare earth minerals discussed in earlier posts to find nuclear weapons, car bombs, etc. He has won many awards so far, one from the military, and will probably end up winning a Nobel - the tri-corder is going to save a hell of a lot of lives.

And no - it doesn't "transport" the gold, but it will lead to it with no uncertainty. If someone shows up at your home to take your gold and you have any of it anywhere around, there will be no "hiding" it - or any of a number of weapons they might choose to search for either - or anything else that they decide to look for. If martial law were ever instated, you don't own anything they don't want you to own unless you can find someplace out somewhere that they wouldn't go looking for it. Do you know they can even find paper money? That was an ability BEFORE the tri-corder. Fitzgerald's Vectors (the more powerful ones) will do that at up to a mile, too.

The treasure hunting crap you see for the public - even the top brands such as Whites - are nothing but stinking entertainment toys. The big dogs don't need toys.

[Indiana]

"As for heysals anecdote, I never saw such a thing. The ability to detect gold, and discern that it could be gold, has been in the public domain for at least decades though. It is limited to a few yards though, and works best if there is a fair amount, etc...

Obviously, it was used in "metal detectors" for private hunters."

Steve mon ami
On the subject of gold detection...You are light years in the past...If you are talking classical metal detectors...Here at RHS1 we ***KNOW*** all about Gold detection.
We are the No 1 in the world...Visitors "from 67 countries" ....

"Exclusive features found only on the PDF-1000 allow you to quickly set-up and search an area for up to 10 miles in all directions and 200 feet in depth. If a target is present, you will know immediately."

Metal Detectors, Gold Prospecting, Treasure Hunting

Bob is a member of RHS1...Sally knows him personally...He offered to teach Sally how to use the equipment..More amazing is this...

"Last year I had a question and an Archaeologist I was communicating with put me in touch with Charles (Chuck) L.Christensen of H3Tec. He had some new technology that was absolutely astounding and I was privileged to get updates periodically on his progress in bringing this technology to the public. I actually had to promise Chuck I'd keep quiet about his invention until he was ready to release information about it himself."

RHS1 Global Rock, Gem and Treasure Hunters Community

Check out the links Steve..Myob..Welcome to the 21st century-O)

Indy

[HeySal]

I haven't been able to get with Bob to learn his machines yet because he's been somewhere I can't disclose, working on some really shocking archaeological stuff with some pals of his. He's actually been in danger a few times and won't breath a word of what's up. I'm on pins and needles waiting for the message from him that will unlock
the secret of the hunt.

I was in Utah briefly last year to see Chuck. It had just snowed in the area I wanted to go hunt red beryl and a storm was approaching rapidly so I didn't get to stay long as I had wanted to beat the storm out of there (which I actually managed to do). I had come very close to being caught by one in the Mts of Laramie WY the night before and didn't look forward to getting trapped outside of my destination.

Anyhow. It's just very incredible to me what can be done about finding just about anything that one would want to look for. Just because the stuff really never hits the airwaves to JQP doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If people would get their heads around that damned fact they will start to realize that much of what they consider "conspiracy theory" is just that some people are more privvy to the rules of the game than others are. The minerals game at the levels that JQP never sees makes stocks and commodities yesterdays news no matter what the state of the markets.

[myob]

Originally Posted by Indiana

"As for heysals anecdote, I never saw such a thing. The ability to detect gold, and discern that it could be gold, has been in the public domain for at least decades though. It is limited to a few yards though, and works best if there is a fair amount, etc...

Obviously, it was used in "metal detectors" for private hunters."

Steve mon ami
On the subject of gold detection...You are light years in the past...If you are talking classical metal detectors...Here at RHS1 we ***KNOW*** all about Gold detection.
We are the No 1 in the world...Visitors "from 67 countries" ....

"Exclusive features found only on the PDF-1000 allow you to quickly set-up and search an area for up to 10 miles in all directions and 200 feet in depth. If a target is present, you will know immediately."

Metal Detectors, Gold Prospecting, Treasure Hunting

Bob is a member of RHS1...Sally knows him personally...He offered to teach Sally how to use the equipment..More amazing is this...

"Last year I had a question and an Archaeologist I was communicating with put me in touch with Charles (Chuck) L.Christensen of H3Tec. He had some new technology that was absolutely astounding and I was privileged to get updates periodically on his progress in bringing this technology to the public. I actually had to promise Chuck I'd keep quiet about his invention until he was ready to release information about it himself."

RHS1 Global Rock, Gem and Treasure Hunters Community

Check out the links Steve..Myob..Welcome to the 21st century-O)

Indy

Well, Hot diggedy dawg! Heee Haaaw! I never knowed what such contraptions existed!
ROFLMAO! This is priceless!! HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!! Woohoo!

The Gold Busters are coming to snatch your gold! And there ain't no place to hide!
Say, yous guys wouldn't be the ones sellin' to them revenuer fellers, now, would ya?


Thanks for the heads up
I just love this place!!

[HeySal]

Paul - nobody ever said that they ARE going to take your gold. What is being discussed is their ABILITY to take your gold. Laugh your ass off if you please. But the ability IS THERE. Both technologically and legislatively.

If you think they can't, you are a jackass - Whether you think they will or not, now that's a matter that can be debated and draw jeers, laughter, and scorn til the cows come home...............but don't confuse the two issues. Ability doesn't always lead to action. You and I have the ABILITY to kill many people, it doesn't mean we do so or would even consider doing so.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by HeySal

Steve - a physicist pal of mine, and real funny guy, btw, had this life long voova over the tri-corder on star trek so he invented it. He recently sold one beaucoup number of them to the mililitary and is enjoying incredible windfalls of wealth from this gadget.

There is no, "might be" to this thing. It works via a process called atomic signaturing. His first applications were to detect oil for a few companies - always successful, and to date the carving on a stone for a archaeologist pal of his. Now these machines are mucho $$ for him to say the least.

If you are using one of these things - the top strength model can detect gold at the depth and circumference of a mile. No questions asked. The lightweight model is only 50 feet. It will also detect other minerals, of course. The military will be using it to detect the rare earth minerals discussed in earlier posts to find nuclear weapons, car bombs, etc. He has won many awards so far, one from the military, and will probably end up winning a Nobel - the tri-corder is going to save a hell of a lot of lives.

And no - it doesn't "transport" the gold, but it will lead to it with no uncertainty. If someone shows up at your home to take your gold and you have any of it anywhere around, there will be no "hiding" it - or any of a number of weapons they might choose to search for either - or anything else that they decide to look for. If martial law were ever instated, you don't own anything they don't want you to own unless you can find someplace out somewhere that they wouldn't go looking for it. Do you know they can even find paper money? That was an ability BEFORE the tri-corder. Fitzgerald's Vectors (the more powerful ones) will do that at up to a mile, too.

The treasure hunting crap you see for the public - even the top brands such as Whites - are nothing but stinking entertainment toys. The big dogs don't need toys.

Heysal,

Sometimes I may seem like an idiot, etc... but I can get REALLY cynical. I shutup my mouth for a couple decades PARTIALLY because someone threatened to take me to court, and PARTIALLY because intel basically destroyed it, but I found out about a conspiracy in the computer industry that apparently nobody else did. I even got the company to ADMIT it! I told them the jig was up, I had their schematics, and determned their claims were IMPOSSIBLE! They only THEN admitted it!

NOW, as to your friend, NOBODY really said what a tricorder is. Apparently it can analyze nearly ANYTHING. Your friend did NOT make a tricorder like described on star trek. I doubt VERY much that it can read DNA, compare DNA, etc... That feature was even whown on the FIRST startrek! If it could do even THAT he would get the noble prize, and put entire INDUSTRIES OUT OF WORK!

I don't care WHAT he calls it. I have heard FANCIER names for very simple things. One person called a talk show host to rant about this industrial solvent, "dihydrogen monoxide"! It IS a POWERFUL solvent, and causes maybe TRILLIONS of dollars damage every year! It is used ALL OVER! It kills MANY people every year! We have to PAY people just to protect others from it. It hurts streets, etc.... Sounds fancy, but THINK ABOUT IT!!!!! H2O! Everything she said was right, but it is just WATER! The planet IS 75% water, after all!

And I can detect gold within a few miles ALSO! Who needs a detector? I can tell you there is PLENTY of gold around HERE!

Steve

[myob]

Originally Posted by HeySal

Paul - nobody ever said that they ARE going to take your gold. What is being discussed is their ABILITY to take your gold. Laugh your ass off if you please. But the ability IS THERE. Both technologically and legislatively.

If you think they can't, you are a jackass - Whether you think they will or not, now that's a matter that can be debated and draw jeers, laughter, and scorn til the cows come home...............but don't confuse the two issues. Ability doesn't always lead to action. You and I have the ABILITY to kill many people, it doesn't mean we do so or would even consider doing so.

I apologize, Sal. It is possible, yes. What I was laughing at was not the technology nor implementation, but rather at all of this kind of totally unfounded fear-mongering that's been going on. You can really stretch hypotheticals to the max to fit your own paranoia.

The cost and logistics of such a gold confiscation sweep seems so prohibitive that I can't imagine any realistic probability of this ever happening, unless gold hits significantly much higher prices. There are far more advanced and less costly methods of seizing assets already in place. The physical confiscation of gold from US citizens seems so unlikely and ludicrous compared to the power, for example, that the IRS and DEA have to transfer far greater assets with the simple push of a button. And since I don't own any physical gold, it would be easy for the Feds to snatch it all electronically from me at any time.

The government indeed has the power and can steal anything it wants at any time from its citizens. But if that ever happens as we witnessed recently on a small scale with the bailout morass, that will be the end of the government. So that begs the question - under what scenario would the US government again go for the gold of its own citizens?

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by myob

So that begs the question - under what scenario would the US government again go for the gold of its own citizens?

You're guess is as good as mine, Paul. Just remember the operative phrase there is "again". In light of what these people have been doing, I'd rather always look at the worst case scenario in any area I'm dabbling in because you can just never tell whose going to get a voova for what and actually manage to pull it off. Look at some of the **** that's already been pulled. The very existence of the FED is a good testimony to what these people will do when motivated - and how easily fooled the masses will be.

They now play with figure of a Trillion dollars. Money is no object any more - need more? Print it or just outright steal it. THey play with millions like we would play 5 cent limits poker - nobody will fold a real shot in the dark hand because the stakes aren't high enough to bother with.

If you want to trust them, go ahead. I have found it safer (and healthier) not to do so. You've made your own moves based on your own judgement of situations and possible outcomes. It's real simple - you are either right and you win - or you will be wrong and will lose. The fact you are putting your money where you do is testimony of your own bet on the outcome.

I'd never be presumptuous enough to laugh at you for where you placed your wager. I can't predict the future, and in certain options of the future your system is a shoe-in for the winning hand. It is actually a damned good system - one that made my grandfather rich in 1929 actually. Will it hold?

In every system you get real solid minds and real distorted twisted wanna-own-the-world types. Look at CODEX - there's hunderds of committees to that treaty. One committee has passed a thumbs up for turmeric. Go figure. Amidst all the hype, good and bad, at least one committee has a finger on sanity and had the power to extract a ruling that made sense. On the other hand - there's a committee that wants to see the banning of garlic. How much power will those nut cases have by the end of it? Toss a coin.

Face it guy - if we could predict everything our leaders, or anyone else would do, history would be one hell of a different read from what it is at present. I'm imagining a king who thought that the patriots were a "conspiracy theory" at one point of the game.

Forgive me if that's what it takes but I must quote from one famous contemporary American:

There's always somethin'
~Guilda Radner~

[myob]

So let me see here if I've got everything that I should be afraid of:

Our government has plans in place to get all our gold.
International corporations are enslaving the masses.
Big Pharm will illegalize natural remedies.
Shadowy organizations are planning massive depopulation using the H1N1 vaccine.
The global economy is on the verge of total collapse.
We are entering into a global ice age, not global warming.
UFOs are abducting earthlings for cross-breeding experimentation.
Aliens from other galaxies that collided with the Milky Way are among us.
The year 2012 will be the end of civilization according to the Mayan calendar.

What is the probability of such risks, and come on - what really is at risk; the one thing we should fear the most?

Here's a hint from another famous American:

You can't depend on your judgment when your imagination is out of focus.
- Mark Twain

[Patrician]

With all these 'heady' topics in this thread, I just have to ask:

When did Paul Uhl and Sally Taylor get married?

They sure do get along just like a married couple.

Let us know when you have kids, that should be interesting.

heheheheheheehehehehehehehe

[OldModelT]

I'm really sorry for changing the subject here but as a total newbie on this forum, I haven't been able to locate a link for starting a new thread. Could someone please enlighten me as to how to start a new thread? Thanks so much!

[Patrician]

If you are logged in you should see a black button thingy at the top left that says 'new thread' - click it and proceed.

Inside this thread you see 'post reply' but just back up to the Off Topic main index.

[HeySal]

Paul - there are evidences for all of those predictions. Just sit back with the rest of us to find out which actually play out and which don't.

To my figuring the one that really concerns me the most is the coming cold. There is much viable evidence that the earth is shifting into another cold age - it's not like it's the first time it's happened. Why anyone would consider changing climates a conspiracy theory is beyond me. Earth climates always fluctuate. I think people that would consider scientists seeing colder climates coming to be a conspiracy theory are really strangely whacked. The last hundred years was actually the climate that is outside the norm. Was it a conspiracy?
I wonder if creatures here during the last cold periods thought it was a conspiracy theory, and then later just that a conspiracy had taken place? LMAO.

Now if someone comes in here and tells us that climate change is caused by someone controlling the weather, you, by all means, can add it to a list of conspiracies.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by myob

So let me see here if I've got everything that I should be afraid of:

Our government has plans in place to get all our gold.

They've done it before.

Originally Posted by myob

International corporations are enslaving the masses.

Yep, EVEN today, THEY'RE DOING IT!

Originally Posted by myob

Big Pharm will illegalize natural remedies.

YEP, they have in practice, and are trying to do it through the courts in all ways!

Originally Posted by myob

Shadowy organizations are planning massive depopulation using the H1N1 vaccine.

Well, I thought it LUDICROUS years ago when WHO was trying to make more contagiouss strains of viruses on the pretense that it will help them protect against natural mutations! So they ARE INTENTIONALLY causing contagion!

Originally Posted by myob

The global economy is on the verge of total collapse.

You don't even believe THAT? The ONLY questions are WHEN, HOW FAR it will be allowed to go, and the method used to "recover"/

Originally Posted by myob

We are entering into a global ice age, not global warming.

Who knows?

Originally Posted by myob

UFOs are abducting earthlings for cross-breeding experimentation.

I doubt it.

Originally Posted by myob

Aliens from other galaxies that collided with the Milky Way are
among us.

Who knows?

Originally Posted by myob

The year 2012 will be the end of civilization according to the Mayan calendar.

At this point, it is interesting. Who knows?

[myob]

Originally Posted by HeySal

Paul - there are evidences for all of those predictions. Just sit back with the rest of us to find out which actually play out and which don't.

To my figuring the one that really concerns me the most is the coming cold. There is much viable evidence that the earth is shifting into another cold age - it's not like it's the first time it's happened. Why anyone would consider changing climates a conspiracy theory is beyond me. Earth climates always fluctuate. I think people that would consider scientists seeing colder climates coming to be a conspiracy theory are really strangely whacked. The last hundred years was actually the climate that is outside the norm. Was it a conspiracy?
I wonder if creatures here during the last cold periods thought it was a conspiracy theory, and then later just that a conspiracy had taken place? LMAO.

Now if someone comes in here and tells us that climate change is caused by someone controlling the weather, you, by all means, can add it to a list of conspiracies.

My greatest fear is that all of these could happen all at once:

Our government has plans in place to get all our gold.
International corporations are enslaving the masses.
Big Pharm will illegalize natural remedies.
Shadowy organizations are planning massive depopulation using the H1N1 vaccine.
The global economy is on the verge of total collapse.
We are entering into a global ice age, not global warming.
UFOs are abducting earthlings for cross-breeding experimentation.
Aliens from other galaxies that collided with the Milky Way are among us.
The year 2012 will be the end of civilization according to the Mayan calendar.

The thought of the possiblity of all these predictions coming true at once just sends a shivering cold fear up my spine. I can't think of anything worse than being freezing cold with the flu and no gold in a devastated economy, surrounded by sagitarrian corporate slave masters trying to inject me with artificially manufactured drugs for breeding experimentation on Dec 21, 2012.

[HeySal]

Well Paul -

Our government has plans in place to get all our gold.

Been there done that - would the sequel be any more interesting than the original?
Usually not........but it occasionally happens.

International corporations are enslaving the masses.

Well this one blows chunks on your fears. That happened awhile back. While there are moves in action to stop this action, nobody has succeeded yet. I'm not sure the legislation to make lobbying an illegal activity is enough to turn that around.

Big Pharm will illegalize natural remedies.

They will definitely continue trying. Having a patent on the word "cure" has helped that cause wildly. Commissions to doctors who sell the drugs isn't hurting them, and neither is the privilege of writing the courses for doctor's educations. Legislation which holds them above law for drug complications isn't doing much good at stopping them. If someone can break their monopoly on medicine so that the truth can be spoken about herbals (both good and bad) and other breakthroughs in health, such as the sonar equipment that breaks up tumors can and will be released for public use, we might just see a turn around in that one. Until then JQP will continue to believe it is safe to swallow licorice root every day of their lives and pharms will use that as an example why THEY should be in charge.

Shadowy organizations are planning massive depopulation using the H1N1 vaccine.

Well now that just won't happen, Paul. Only one company owns the patent to that. Once they are done with their lawsuit over the purposeful contamination of the last batch, they may or may not be free to continue with the new serum that has been patent pending for a conspicuous amount of time. We can, of course, imagine that there are unspoken hands in that pot, however.

The global economy is on the verge of total collapse.

Um...well....there's quite a few things on this list that will have to really hurry to catch up with the level of progress which the collapse has already made. However, I'm sure they could keep it teetering for awhile until the climate and a few other things catch up to it.

We are entering into a global ice age, not global warming.

Well this one will really bust through your night sweats, Paul. Just as the current warming trend took over a century to get to the conspiracy level........ice ages don't come on over night. I doubt that you and I will make it to see the real height of the cooling, however, having an extra blanket or two in the house isn't a bad idea - neither is having a greenhouse if you can afford one. With almost 7 bil to feed globally you really don't want people stealing your salads when unexpected freezes or wet weather (most of the ice age was WET, not buried in snow) drowns them. Of course - if the economy does hold out you will be very wealthy so should be able to survive the soaring food prices and shifting export trends - so have a chocolate bar and relax a little bit.

UFOs are abducting earthlings for cross-breeding experimentation.

Oh come on, Paul - we all KNOW that has already happened. Haven't you ever seen
Gene Simmons? No way in hell you can consider that 100% human and expect us to believe you are lucid. And then there is also NYC.....ever been there? No, I'm sorry Paul - you just shouldn't worry about stuff that's already happened.

Aliens from other galaxies that collided with the Milky Way are among us.

Paul - our solar system is a Sagittarian residual of the "collision", at least it fits statistically with that one better than with this one.
The Aliens are actually natural inhabitants of the MY who have come to observer extra-galactic beings. We, apparently, are soooo strange to them that they can't decide whether they actually are ready to bring us our welcome wagon baskets or not.

The year 2012 will be the end of civilization according to the Mayan calendar.

Well, Gee whilikers, after seeing all the other things that civilization is up to on your list of fears, we can only hope so.

[myob]

So you are telling me, of all these predicted catastrophic scenarios, the one that really concerns you the most is that you might get cold?

Originally Posted by HeySal

To my figuring the one that really concerns me the most is the coming cold. There is much viable evidence that the earth is shifting into another cold age - it's not like it's the first time it's happened.

That's not much of an affirmation for the imminence or severity of the 8 other plagues that have been predicted in this thread.

Our government has plans in place to get all our gold.
International corporations are enslaving the masses.
Big Pharm will illegalize natural remedies.
Shadowy organizations are planning massive depopulation using the H1N1 vaccine.
The global economy is on the verge of total collapse.
We are entering into a global ice age, not global warming.
UFOs are abducting earthlings for cross-breeding experimentation.
Aliens from other galaxies that collided with the Milky Way are among us.
The year 2012 will be the end of civilization according to the Mayan calendar.

I was actually beginning to get a little worried there for a bit. Come to think of it, though, there does seem to be a bit of a chill in the air. But, you could just put on an extra blanket or two for now. You still got time to throw some logs into the fire and build up the green house gases to reverse the next ice age.

[JakeDaly]

Got a couple pregnant girlfriends. Advice, anyone?

[HeySal]

Yes Jim - vasectomy, definitely. You just can't hope it will fall off in the next wave of plague.

Paul - the cold will bring it's own special pleasures this time around even though we won't see the height of the "season". Trust me on that one. BTW - greenhouse gases can work to keep warmth out, too. In small doses they will heat things up but when there are enough, the rays can't get to us in the first place. That is why a super-volcano is so deadly in the long run. Oh-- but don't get shook about that now, too.
It seems that the Yellowstone mantle plume may have disconnected from its heat source. It's cooling down so if you had that one on a "sublist" somewhere, you can probably safely erase it. HTH.

[Dave Patterson]

Originally Posted by JakeDaly

Got a couple pregnant girlfriends. Advice, anyone?

Change your screen name.

Use Homer Simpson for your avatar.

If anyone questions you about your past, respond with "Doh"...

That should work for awhile.

[Mike Wright]

Could this all be unanticipated consequences of me composing
symphonies upon my top secret Quantum Superstring Wibbulator
keyboard altering this and other realities

Must admit the price of gold started to rise after I installed
a new subsonic octave of pipes to the much modified Mighty
Wurlitzer in tthe basement

[JakeDaly]

Originally Posted by HeySal

Yes Jim - vasectomy, definitely. You just can't hope it will fall off in the next wave of plague.

Name's Jake. And I already have a couple STDs.. if that's what you're referring too. A mathematician might say I have one STD for each bastard child. Saw a documentary on The Plague a few weeks ago and can assure you my penis will not be coming off due to anything short of a bipolar girlfriend.

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Change your screen name.

Use Homer Simpson for your avatar.

If anyone questions you about your past, respond with "Doh"...

That should work for awhile.

My pen name shall remain in effect until 2012. At that time, my illegitimate children will bask in the glory of my true identity and I will laugh and throw things at those who suggested I avoid the scrutiny of society. I will, though, find a Homer Simpson avatar later on.. that's just solid advice.

Also, what are your guys' stance on marriage? Marry one of the mothers of my children? The other? Pull a Big Love, move to Utah, and marry both(may not be an option unless they both agree)? So many questions and so few avenues a man can really take these days to find solid marriage advice.

[Dave Patterson]

Just buy both of them a house and send cash regularly...save those court costs and lawyer fees.

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by Mike Wright

Could this all be unanticipated consequences of me composing
symphonies upon my top secret Quantum Superstring Wibbulator
keyboard altering this and other realities

Must admit the price of gold started to rise after I installed
a new subsonic octave of pipes to the much modified Mighty
Wurlitzer in tthe basement

Are you saying gold is up in ALL realities? How is that possible unless..........
Do ya think maybe we've mined and processed enough that Marduke is sending troops back to collect it soon? Oh my. We're in more of a bind than I had supposed.

JAKE (um sorry, about that)
If you are even starting to be serious, which I highly doubt -- you have reached your sensible amount of reproduction considering over-carrying capacity populations. Please get a vasectomy. Even if we were not over carrying capacity, and even if you aren't a walking social disease recepticle, it appears if you have to ask questions about taking care of children you produce and women you impregnate, you really should not be reproducing at all.

[R Hagel]

Originally Posted by JakeDaly

Got a couple pregnant girlfriends. Advice, anyone?

Write a testimonial letter to the makers of Viagra. They might even send you a coupon for your next purchase.