I Need Some Advice...Seriously (RESOLVED...THANKS FOR YOUR ADVICE)

[Steven Wagenheim]

Here's the situation.

I had a falling out with a fellow warrior because, quite honestly, I acted like
a total horses ass.

I have since learned a lot about humility and forum behavior. Yes, I've
mellowed a lot.

I'd like to contact this person and try to make amends but they have
specifically told me to pretend that they don't even exist anymore.

I don't know what to do. I hate the way things ended. We had, at the
very least, an amiable relationship. Now it's pretty much shot to hell.

I'm afraid that if I contact the person it will only make things worse.

What would you do? I'm really at a loss on this one.

Thanks for your help.

** EDIT **

This has been resolved. Thanks

[TLTheLiberator]

Perhaps a cooling off period may be prudent.

TL

[Crystal_]

Steven,

If I honestly felt my actions caused the falling out, I'd take a serious look at my negative behaviour patterns and make a conscious effort to change my ways.

As for the relationship, I'd respect the other person's wishes and leave them alone for the time being.

Time tends to heal and help us put things in perspective. After apologizing and receiving the request to not contact the person again, I'd definitely wait some time before I'd attempt to re-establish the relationship. Chances are we'll bump into each other again down the road and/or find something else in common to connect us.

In the meantime, I'd simply learn from the experience and let my actions show it.

Crystal

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Perhaps a cooling off period may be prudent.

TL

Um, this happened about 8 months ago.

That's why I am bringing this up now. I felt that enough time has passed
but am still hesitant because of how things ended.

[Kirahster]

If you think that the other warrior had enough time to cool off, then contact them.

I am not sure how you used to be in contact before but if it was email, PM, IM, however it was just send them a message and tell them how sorry you are. Tell them that you miss their friendship and that you will do what you can to try and make it up to them.

Most people are forgiving, especially when they have had a chance to cool off.

Just make sure that you are sincere.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by KimW

Steven,
I will act as an intermediary for you if you like.

Thanks Kim, but I'm not so sure that's a good idea. My gut tells me that
this person would appreciate it more if I was man enough to say, "Hey, I
screwed up...can I have another chance" to their face than having a third
party get involved.

Of course I'm also concerned that doing so could unleash an avalanche of
heaven knows what upon my head.

My gut, right now, tells me to just forget about it because if i do nothing
then nothing bad can happen. On the other hand, I don't like the way things
ended.

Yeah, I know folks...it's my decision and I have to be the one to decide
what to do.

[Kay King]

Steven -

We've all had times when our mouth overrode our common sense and we spoke without a cooling off period. We all have people we lost in our lives because of that - but that's the way it is. You don't win them all - you don't always get another chance....and not everyone will like you.

Let it go. Trying to do the mea culpa is about you and your guilt - and I understand how bad you can feel when something like that happens. It's normal to want to apologize and to make things right - but if someone has said "leave me alone - just stay away" showing respect for them means doing exactly that. If they want to make contact, they will.

Sometimes we miss a chance to make or keep a friend because we act out of anger or self-importance and then regret it - and sometimes what is said needed to be said. Either way, the result can be the same. Lesson learned - just move on and resolve to not let it happen again.

kay

[Kurt]

Steven,

If you are truly bothered by this, give it a shot. Tell the person how you feel and that you will never contact them again if they don't respond.

You feel crappy now, what's the worst that can happen? You apologize for something you think you should have anyway. And you'll feel better knowing you did the best you could AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

They won't go on a tirade...The worsrt that will happen is they will tell you to f-off.

In poker terms, what are your pot odds? Looks like a lot to gain with little to lose to me.

[Michael Motley]

I would say just contact them and apologize. Either they are going to accept your apology or not, but hand wringing over it is a waste of your time and energy.

[seasoned]

OK, everyone here knows I am the LAST one that should give you advice here, but here it goes....

If this is due to a mistake you made, or a general belief you had, and you can illustrate in a general and relevant way that you have changed here, state it PUBLICALLY! DON'T refer to the incident, or person, but ONLY something to show you have changed.

Outside of that, I would say that IF you are not asking anything of the person, and have something that could benefit them, MAYBE approach THEM via PM. Of course, that IS risky. 8-(

Steve

[Kay King]

It's good advice with one codicil - have you apologized previously? Have you contacted them in the past eight months to say "I was wrong"?

If not, it's worth a shot if only to make you feel you've done everything you can to fix the problem.

However, if you have contacted them since that time and had no response...I'd let it go.

kay

[kevinpotts]

What can I say... at least you feel sorry about everything.

The best you can do, if you honestly feel you're guilty, is send them an e-mail to apologize. Being honest it's a good point to start, tell that person how you've been felling on how things ended and how you will be willing to do everything in your hands to try to repair the damage. ...

Hope it helps.

K.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by seasoned

OK, everyone here knows I am the LAST one that should give you advice here, but here it goes....

If this is due to a mistake you made, or a general belief you had, and you can illustrate in a general and relevant way that you have changed here, state it PUBLICALLY! DON'T refer to the incident, or person, but ONLY something to show you have changed.

Outside of that, I would say that IF you are not asking anything of the person, and have something that could benefit them, MAYBE approach THEM via PM. Of course, that IS risky. 8-(

Steve

You know Steve, first of all...I really admire you. Since I've been reading
your posts here at this forum, you have never been afraid to tell people
exactly what's on your mind.

Your advice, about stating it publicly, is great except for one thing.

Talk is cheap.

I could go on and on about what I did and what I've learned from it and
how I've changed, but it doesn't mean squat. Actions are all that matter.
To that end, I've been trying to be more low key here, maybe not
post as much, and certainly not start very many threads unless they're
in OT, which is pretty much where I hang out now. Occasionally I will go
to the main forum and see where there is a question somebody has that
I can answer. In other words, help out where I can and not make a big
deal about it.

So far, I think it's worked. When was the last time you saw one of my
infamous WF threads turning into an ugly mess? It's been a long time.
Maybe my mother's death had something to do with it. I don't know. All I
know is that these days, trivial matters like a forum thread (the cause
of all my troubles here) just aren't all that important anymore. I pretty
much keep my opinions to myself these days.

I look back at all the problems I caused here and I sometimes wonder
what devil possessed me. The whole thing makes me just want to look
myself in the mirror and give me a smack.

But then, even that I am passed. I've stopped beating myself up over
what I've done because I can't undo it. All I can do is move forward.

The question is, do I just move forward and let the past be what it is or do
I try to mend fences?

Kurt, you make an excellent point. What do I have to lose?

I bet you're a great Texas Hold 'Em player.

Kay, you also made some excellent points. Sometimes what's done is done
and you just have to leave it alone.

I so used to think I had all the answers, and I sure as hell let everybody
here know it.

What I failed to realize was that there were a ton of people in this forum
who had a hell of a lot more smarts than I did.

Yeah, growing up is not always an easy thing.

[Patrician]

Steven - FORGIVE YOURSELF! (for what - nobody is perfect)

As for this situation, I agree with everyone to give it a shot. Do not go in to a diatribe about your 'sins' and do not even mention the issues that involved the fight.

Just apologize and say that you miss his friendship and wish you had another shot. It is a real test of the friendship and if that person chooses to keep his panties in a bunch, then he was never a friend in the first place.

I had a best friend who I would fight with all the time - we were like two goats butting heads on so many issues. Sometimes we would be so angry we wouldn't speak for a year at a time - but we both knew we were still good friends and always would be.

I missed talking to her once I would calm down, and I knew that someday I would pick up the phone and hear 'hey lady' and all would be forgotten and forgiven without saying anything about it.

Unfortunately the last time she went and died in the middle of one of our 'time outs'. I regret that I never got to say goodbye, but know that I was forgiven because she really was my good friend and always will be.

True friendship is like other kinds of love - it's permanent and unconditional. Ever heard 'I don't like you sometimes but I love you'?

A fight is just a test of friendship as far as I am concerned. If I didn't like the person I wouldn't bother fighting it out to get to a resolution or at least to agree to disagree.

Just remember if the person doesn't respond in the way you want, it is not on you, it is on them.

Please let us know what happens though, ok?

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

That's a very good point, Kay. I was going on the assumption there had been no contact but if there has been, I completely agree with you.

Steve, for what it's worth, sure you may have acted like an ass and been a tad over dramatic at times but apparently you were not the only one to get that upset over a forum thread. It does take two to tango, as they say.

Tina

Yeah, can't argue with that. If you looked up "ass" in the dictionary you
would have seen a picture of me next to the definition. But I am starting
to mellow a lot...even outside of the house. I used to be a terror in stores
when I couldn't get what I wanted. Don't ask.

Honestly, outside of my wife and my kid, nothing is that important to me
anymore, not even my business, which is part of the reason I'm semi
retired. I don't need the money as much as I used to, so why knock
myself out? To have more of it when I go to heaven? Please, it's just
not worth it.

Yeah, even old dogs can learn new tricks.

[Fernando Veloso]

Steve, that is a personal decision you have to take.

Sincerely, no one can advice what you should be doing with your life: not because they have bad advices - quite the opposite - but because you're the one who needs to decide what needs to done.

It's your life, it's your call.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

From the perspective of someone who's been wronged (though, I've been on both sides of these things, I'm just speaking from the one side here), sometimes it doesn't matter how much you apologize. The person may have accepted your apology, but still want to keep their distance.

If you've ever had any one go off on you, you may reach a point where you think you are walking on eggshells. And, it's easier to just avoid that situation than to spend time having to worry about whether that person will take something the wrong way or blow up over something inconsequential, or whatever.

Maybe it's not always fair, but sometimes that's just the way it is.

[Bill Farnham]

Steve,

Hard feelings can vanish in a sentence. If your situation is carved from bullheadedness or sins of emotion these are easy to forgive and forget.

If you had burned this other person in a shady business deal, that would be cause for permanent wariness. Doesn't sound like this is the case here.

I'd send the person a PM saying how much you missed your interaction and then let them do the rest. You only get the first move here, anyway.

KJ

P.S.

Try NOT to sell'em sumpin'

[seasoned]

Steven,

I wasn't saying to put something on here publically JUST for them. It would have to be legit, and fit with the forum. Like if someone thought I had something against him because of diabetes, I could maybe post a nice link telling how it has affected MY family, ask other people to donate to JDRF or some such, and maybe work marketing in somehow to make it relevant.

BTW that is just the first thing that came to my mind, I didn't mean anything by it.

But your right. I DO have jewish, black, and asian friends BUT, if someone feels you are racist, you could probably state you have them, and even that you donate, until you are blue in the face. Of course, you wouldn't work so hard to get OTHERS to do it.

Steve

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Try NOT to sell'em sumpin'

Just to let you know, when I said "IF you are not asking anything of the person, and have something that could benefit them, MAYBE approach THEM", I basically meant if you can do something for them WITHOUT any cost. So I was saying don't even ask them for the answer to a problem, let alone try to sell.

Steve

[Bill Farnham]

Originally Posted by seasoned

So I was saying don't even ask them for the answer to a problem, let alone try to sell.

Steve

No worries, Steve. That was an obscure inside joke based off another thread. Google - sell'em sumpin' - the thread ranks #1, so it's easy to find.

I see I mispelled Steve's name in my other post so I have go change that now...

KJ

[Ken]

Steve. Why should you care?

It's ok not to like everyone. You don't have to like everyone. Everyone doesn't have to like you.

We don't click the same with some people as we do with others, and before you can properly handle the situation it is imperative that you realize that it is ok that you don't like them or they don't like you. It does not make you or them a bad person,

Never have the mindset that there's something wrong with you. Plus, it was hard work trying to have everyone like you.
I don't live my life worrying what most other people think about me. The only people that matter to me are my family and my friends. I don't have time to worry about what others think about me. I don't think you should sweat it.

I know there are people I don't like, and sometimes i have no good reason, I just don't like them, and I figure there are people who just don't like me. Thats the way life is. Deal with it and don't disappoint yourself.

When someone dislikes you, or makes enough time to hate on you, they're only wasting their own time and energy.

It’s natural to want to be liked, but at what cost? It’s impossible to please everyone.

A great mind once said, “If you don’t have the balls to be hated, then you don’t deserve to be loved.”

Enough for now,

Ken

[Jeremy Aragon]

I have been offline for some time now and just created a new profile, as soon as I was done filling out info and uploading pics I started looking for Wagenheim threads! Something seemed odd and then I found this post, Steve,you've been one of my internet marketing heroes since day one because of your sharp opinions and brutal honesty combined with great knowledge and advice! Whatever happened between you and the other warrior is water under the bridge buddy, if I can get over and forgive my ex-wife for cheating on me and lying about the other guy without my personality being silenced by the trauma then a little warrior forum drama shouldn't keep you down man.Just my two cents and sorry to hear about your mother, I despise the day that I'll have to face that scenario...

[Jag82]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Here's the situation.

I had a falling out with a fellow warrior because, quite honestly, I acted like
a total horses ass.

I have since learned a lot about humility and forum behavior. Yes, I've
mellowed a lot.

I'd like to contact this person and try to make amends but they have
specifically told me to pretend that they don't even exist anymore.

I don't know what to do. I hate the way things ended.

From the looks of it, Steven, you already have the answer to your question.

You do want to contact him. You know it.

So what do you think? Contact him!

Visualize yourself sending him an email about how you feel.
And then how you press the "sent" button...

And just like that...imagine yourself feeling liberated...

That's what you need to do. The rest is up to the other person.

Just do it!

Jag

[John M Kane]

Sounds like a bridge was burned and now you want forgiveness in order to help you feel better.
What will happen if they never forgive you?

Just because you say you're sorry does NOT obligate them to forgive you.

Will you continue to beat yourself up over it for ever?

Seems to me you have repented and did enough penance by feeling bad about it.

Repent means to be sorry and NEVER do it again.

So, time to move on.

There is something to be said about making amends which could be done by helping someone else not related to this person.

Should they wish to reconcile it will happen if they read your post.

Maybe there is a lesson to be learned about what you will do/be going forward.
This could make you a better person because of the loss of a friend.

I once tried to help some one here that was having an anger issue and offered them some advice.
They ignored my PM's totally.

My advice was offered as an honest attempt to help.
I was ignored but, they seemed to have made a change for the better soon after.

So even though they will still not speak to me I feel good that I may have been even a small part in helping them to improve.

Total horses ass is my middle name some will say.
I can't even apologize to some as they have since passed away.
My apology can only be done by striving to be a better person going forward to the best of my ability. Will I fail some time? Sure, I'm not a saint. Few are.But I will continue to try to improve.

Nothing wrong with having a conscience Steven.

In fact it looks good on you

My best,

John

[Richard A.Cox]

Do you have this persons address ?

A small gift and a letter would be welcomed I am sure and a great way to re-establish contact.

Failing that, the only best way I can think of you be to PM your apology to them,
noting that it is a one-off message should they choose not to reply.

They have a choice of whether they want to read it or not, and at least you will have taken the step and gotten it off your chest, so to speak, whether they reply or not.

[Bev Clement]

I would suggest you reverse the question ... what would you want to happen if you told a warrior you want nothing more to do with them?

What would you do if someone you told you didn't want anything to do with, sent you a PM, email or physical letter, would you be gracious about it or would you fly into a rage?

If you can't accept an apology or contact from someone you don't want to hear from, then why should another person accept it from you?

Just posing some questions which might help you to make your mind up.

[derekwong28]

I don't think there is any point in direct contact. If he does not respond, it will just make you tell worse.

If you still want to make a try, I would suggest that you ask an intermediary to do it i.e. someone in the WF you know is on good terms with him. As a matter of courtesy, he would have to reply to the intermediary, who could then pass the message to you.

[Steven Wagenheim]

I wanted to update everybody on this.

Through an odd twist of fate (I won't go into the details) we have put
aside the past and have moved on.

In other words, all is cool.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Glad to hear it, Steve. Will you share a bit more details on how it came about? Whether or not you decided to contact him or did he happen to see this thread or something else?

Tina

Tina, I'd rather not go into details for personal reasons.

Suffice it to say, it was just one thing that lead to another and ultimately
ended up in us patching things up.

[john_kennedy]

I forgive you Steve, in fact I can't even remember what you did...;-)

Seriously though. I would just forgive yourself and move on. Clearly, you have realized the problem and have corrected the issue. The offended party asked not to be contacted and I would respect their wishes.

Now, if I had a nickel for everyone I pissed off over the years....

John

[KimW]

Originally Posted by john_kennedy

I.........
Now, if I had a nickel for everyone I pissed off over the years....

John

<Tosses John a nickel>

[jijaybajay]

Just move on, dude...

[Neromancer]

I many not have thousands of posts but I do know something about human nature; at least enough to know that a reputation is like a mirror; it reflects who we are and can take a lifetime to build and a mere moment to shatter . . . It sounds like you are a decent person because only decent people worry about what they have done to to others. Some people will never learn from their mistakes. We are all trying to become something better - so at least in that effort you are successful. We all make mistakes

[ecoverartist]

If the person isn't receptive after you've apologized, and you still can't get it out of your mind - write out everything you want to say to them in an actual letter. Every single thing. Then burn it. It will feel like an amazing weight off your chest.

[KimW]

Originally Posted by ecoverartist

If the person isn't receptive after you've apologized, and you still can't get it out of your mind - write out everything you want to say to them in an actual letter. Every single thing. Then burn it. It will feel like an amazing weight off your chest.

Read post #31.

[Bill Farnham]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I wanted to update everybody on this.

Through an odd twist of fate (I won't go into the details) we have put
aside the past and have moved on.

In other words, all is cool.

Before you post on this thread read what Steve wrote...(Hint, look right above this sentance.)

[steve-wilkins]

I believe everyone deserves a second chance and if you are genuinely remorseful there is no reason why this person shouldn't talk to you again. You say you left it 8 months now unless what you did was absolutely inexplicable I would of thought this is enough time to put it all behind you both and move on.

Just my thoughts!

Regards,