Prepunk punk music

[KimW]

Some think punk was invented in the late 70s early 80s.
I think the roots of punk came from some backs in the 60s.
An example;

YouTube - Talk Talk - The Music Machine - 1966

[kevinpotts]

what can I say.

ACcording to some VH1 program I once watch, hte beginning is often debated because of the name, the whereabouts and a huge ETC.

In the 60's it was called punk rock to that music that was from a garage and most of the time had no lyrics (not always thought) you can check out an example in youtube, search for THE SONICS (some say it's pure loud my friend Jocy says it's just a matter of who listens to it... she thinks it's cool... a rebel sound).

After that you'll find good music from the UK, DETROIT US and such.

Nice Thread by the way.

K.

[Michael Oksa]

Hi Kim,

I agree. Protopunk can be traced to bands of the 60s, and in some cases, even the 50s.

Garage bands were a big influence on the ethos of punk. The two had the do-it-yourself-who-cares-if-you-can-really-play attitude.

The Music Machine, Standells, Seeds, ? and the Mysterians, were some of the bigger names, but then there are tons of obscure bands (as evidenced in another thread) who would qualify.

Though they didn't have a punk sound, the Velvet Underground's subject matter was gritty and real, covering the social underbelly - another hallmark of punk music.

Moving ahead a little bit you could add the MC5 and the Stooges to early punk.

After that, glam rock had an influence as well, though some punks were loathe to admit it. David Bowie, T Rex, and the New York Dolls left their imprint on the genre before it broke big.

----

Skip ahead to the Ramones, Sex Pistols, Black Flag, Fear, and so on. To me, they define punk.

Then we get to postpunk. In my opinion, WAY too many bands today are labeled as punk. Blink 182 comes to mind. They have more of a power pop sound to my ears, but not punk.

Punk isn't slick, punk isn't how you look - punk is an attitude that can't be faked.

Sidenote: One of the original songs I wrote for the punk band I was in was called Music Machine.

Rock on!
Michael

Another take on it from ALice Cooper, 1980...

YouTube - Alice Cooper-1980 El Paso-Talk Talk

[Michael Oksa]

Here you go, boys and girls.

Unca Mike's got a few songs for you to hear.

Groovy gimmicky garage group...

YouTube - Garage Rock: The Neanderthals...

On this one you can here how garage rock was branching off into punk or psychedelic rock.

YouTube - The Misunderstood - Children of the Sun

Rock on!
Michael

[Steven Wagenheim]

Michael, your first post in this thread couldn't have been said any better.

That pretty much explains what punk is and isn't.

Though I know a lot of people who won't agree.

[John Rogers]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Moving ahead a little bit you could add the MC5 and the Stooges to early punk.

Those are two of my faves. One of my all time favorite concerts was Iggy Pop at a small club in Germany.

John

[Patrician]

I don't think people get it - they don't get punk and they don't even know what it is.

Maybe if you had been in the Haight Ashbury and seen the 'Death of the Hippy' you would understand.

As soon as something gets polluted with wannabes and posers, the movement is essentially exactly the opposite of what was originally intended. It is ruined by tour buses and narcs - and masses of freeloaders.

Real Punk Rockers refused to be commercial or to compromise their art to please some shallow record producer - they would sooner go out of business and die than play what they call crap.

They don't care if people like them - again to the point of saying themselves that they are dead. Like - I am dead, now go away and leave me alone. Yes, now that is a refreshing marketing ploy - like a 'kick me' sign.

So just because you have a few posers who IMITATE PUNK, doesn't mean they are punks - maybe alternative - but even that has been ruined by posers.

Alternative used to be hip - now it is shallow and pop rockish commercial pap.

Here is how I see punk -

#1 - the singers are ALWAYS OFF-KEY
#2 - the beat is usually TWICE AS FAST as 'normal'
#3 - the beat is often backwards (counter point) as would be the movements

I do personally acknowledge Dead Kennedys, Sex Pistols, Iggy Pop, Richard Hell, New York Dolls, Ramones, Suicidal Tendencies, Black Flag, and a few others I can't think of at the moment as being Punks, I am sure as soon as I post this I will think of a bunch more. (Pearl Jam and Nirvana)

I also do acknowledge that the same punks who say 'F off' we want to be original, defiinitely were influenced by somebody else originally.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Patrician

I don't think people get it - they don't get punk and they don't even know what it is.

Maybe if you had been in the Haight Ashbury and seen the 'Death of the Hippy' you would understand.

As soon as something gets polluted with wannabes and posers, the movement is essentially exactly the opposite of what was originally intended. It is ruined by tour buses and narcs - and masses of freeloaders.

Real Punk Rockers refused to be commercial or to compromise their art to please some shallow record producer - they would sooner go out of business and die than play what they call crap.

They don't care if people like them - again to the point of saying themselves that they are dead. Like - I am dead, now go away and leave me alone. Yes, now that is a refreshing marketing ploy - like a 'kick me' sign.

So just because you have a few posers who IMITATE PUNK, doesn't mean they are punks - maybe alternative - but even that has been ruined by posers.

Alternative used to be hip - now it is shallow and pop rockish commercial pap.

Here is how I see punk -

#1 - the singers are ALWAYS OFF-KEY
#2 - the beat is usually TWICE AS FAST as 'normal'
#3 - the beat is often backwards (counter point) as would be the movements

I do personally acknowledge Dead Kennedys, Sex Pistols, Iggy Pop, Richard Hell, New York Dolls, Ramones, Suicidal Tendencies, Black Flag, and a few others I can't think of at the moment as being Punks, I am sure as soon as I post this I will think of a bunch more. (Pearl Jam and Nirvana)

I also do acknowledge that the same punks who say 'F off' we want to be original, defiinitely were influenced by somebody else originally.

Pat, the problem with Punk or with any with any "pure" genre of music is
that once it becomes "popular" it is a self fulfilling prophecy to distortion
of the core.

Even the true punk bands, the pioneers, to a degree, sold out if for no
other reason than they DID become popular, DID allow the record
companies to profit from their music, DID perform in concerts where people
DID have to pay to see them and ultimately become part of the
establishment that they supposedly were against.

I don't see Iggy Pop giving back all the money he made.

Point is, while punk rock was a lyrical statement first, as opposed to a
musical sound, that statement ultimately became hypocritical to the
actual popularity that some of these punk rock bands achieved.

I know many people won't see it that way, but if we're all really honest
with ourselves, the above commentary is pretty dead accurate.

And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against these people for making
money. I never believed that Punk Rock had to be played by starving
bands in order to be authentic.

But the message is very hypocritical when you think about the kind of
bucks that some of these people were raking in.

As for the posers, well, you have to look at the music on a technical
level, whether their hearts are truly into what they're saying or not (who
really knows for sure?)

If it sounds like punk, it's punk.

Whatever their motives.

At least that's the way I see it.

[Patrician]

It's not about the money Steven - it is about compromising artistic aesthetics. (ha ha used in the same sentence with punk, misthetics).

Nothing wrong with filthy lucre - maybe you are confused with my death of the hippy analogy - (they did think money sucked)

It is not the money - it is having some suit tell you 'oh you can't say that' or 'oh you are too loud' or 'oh could you make it danceable' (lol - could you sing on key? NO!)

There are a few movies that were on IFC about the Fall of Western Civilization and some other Punk chronicles - and man, these guys are ugly - they really would rather be hated than loved.

People loved to hate them too.

I don't think imitations are real - no matter how hard you try -

Same token - just loud and horrible doesn't make punk - although it may be to some people - being horrible is an art. LOL.

Like I said somewhere before the epitomy of the punk spirit is when in 'Sid and Nancy', Gary Oldman (playing Sid Viscious) eats pizza and gets up and knocks the table over and leaves.

that's punk.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Patrician

It's not about the money Steven - it is about compromising artistic aesthetics. (ha ha used in the same sentence with punk, misthetics).

Nothing wrong with filthy lucre - maybe you are confused with my death of the hippy analogy - (they did think money sucked)

It is not the money - it is having some suit tell you 'oh you can't say that' or 'oh you are too loud' or 'oh could you make it danceable' (lol - could you sing on key? NO!)

There are a few movies that were on IFC about the Fall of Western Civilization and some other Punk chronicles - and man, these guys are ugly - they really would rather be hated than loved.

People loved to hate them too.

I don't think imitations are real - no matter how hard you try -

Same token - just loud and horrible doesn't make punk - although it may be to some people - being horrible is an art. LOL.

Like I said somewhere before the epitomy of the punk spirit is when in 'Sid and Nancy', Gary Oldman (playing Sid Viscious) eats pizza and gets up and knocks the table over and leaves.

that's punk.

Sid Viscious was who he was. He would have been that whether it was
punk or kiddie tunes.

I'm not 100% sure that every punk artist was pure, even the ones that
we would "qualify" was being punk.

As far as attitude, everybody has one. How true it is? That's between
them and whatever deity they believe in. We can only guess.

Which is why I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to bands that
label themselves as punk, as if anybody really does that.

The early punkers just played their music. It was the fans that gave
the titles, unless I'm missing a vital piece of history where somebody got
up and said, "I'm a punk rocker." If so, please show me the reference
because I'd love to read it.

As for the suits, I will agree with you there. But that's music today. So
in that respect, no matter how "authentic" the music is, I guess you can't
really say anything today is punk, and I just can't take it that far because
there is some stuff that I would classify as punk.

And no, being bad doesn't make you punk by definition. But it doesn't
make you NOT punk just because we don't feel the band is being true
to the genre, which is subjective anyway.

I know some people who thought the Sex Pistols sucked.

Me?

I can listen to this one every single day.

YouTube - Sex Pistols - God Save The Queen

[Patrician]

Well we can agree on that. I love the song above.

... and by the way the word "punk" does have a negative connotation and that is probably why punks chose it.

punk - according to the Doubleday Dictionary:

1. noun - slang - Rubbish; nonsense; anything WORTHLESS.
2. a petty hoodlum.
3. An inexperienced youth, esp a young man. usually CONTEMPTUOUS
- adjective - WORTHLESS, USELESS.

It just says a lot - like I said - if you saw those live documentaries - that they would rather say punk is dead and get a day job than to compromise on their art.

- and of course money would be the reason most musicians do cop out - we all have to eat, even musical geniuses...


That is another thing I love about it - it is brutally real - even to the death.
Kinda like 'I'D RATHER BE DEAD THAN RED'.

DISCORD.

[Patrician]

YouTube - The Ramones: Sheena Is A Punk Rocker

[Patrician]

YouTube - Misfits 1997 - Death Comes Ripping -...

[Michael Oksa]

Getting a recording contract doesn't mean you HAVE to sell out just to suit the suits.

In fact, you don't have to get a record contract to sell out.

On the other hand, doing what you want sometimes means exploring new sounds, such as the Clash. Did they explore those sounds because the "suits" told them to, or because they wanted to?

The Decline of western Civilization, Part 1 is way cool. Part 2 covered the hard rock/new metal scene.

The singing isn't always off-key. I say that because sometimes the music doesn't have a key for the singer to be off from. However, the singing is aggressive. I would pretty much shout when I sang for the band, and I was probably off key. Our beat was quite fast and we did accentuate the off beat a lot.

The big punk movement was about rebellion, but then the poseurs thought rebellion alone made them punk. Not true.

Some punk bands are quite technical in their ability, that doesn't make them less punk.

I don't remember where, but I once heard some of the individual, unmixed tracks for Nevermind The Bullocks, and I was surprised to hear just how prodiced and layered a lot of that album was - BUT it sounded punk.

It SUCKED big time when Sirius merged with XM, because the punk station stopped being punk. It was one reason I cancelled the service. But I listened to about 12 different stations regularly.

To me punk is about saying what you want to say in the way you want to say it and nobody is going to make you shut up and if they do there's going to be a problem. (How's that for an intentional run-on sentence?)

Ultimately, WE can define punk for ourselves - that's really the punk thing to do. On the other hand, if you tell me Blink 182 is punk, I just may tell you what I think about that too.

Another thought. I love talking about this music stuff. We are being respectful if we have a differing opinion, and nobody is getting bent out of shape. So, a big thanks to everyone participating.

Rock on!
Michael

p.s The Dead Boys album...Young, Loud, and Snotty is pretty good for US punk.

YouTube - Dead Boys - Sonic Reducer

[Patrician]

Thanks U2 Michael - I do think you get it.

Young, loud and SNOTTY FOREVER!

YouTube - Suicidal Tendencies - War Inside My Head

[Bill Farnham]

I'm not sure whether you guys ever considered Oingo Boingo as punk rock, but my circle did.

They had a 4 tune album out in the late '70s that was very good. The song "Only A Lad" was my favorite off that vinyl.

YouTube - Oingo Boingo - Only A Lad (1979 live)

The bass player for that group from 1984 thru 1995 was a heck of a dart player. I'm a WADA champ myself (1971/72) and he and I teamed up once and never got beat the whole night. (He was a friend of mine's brother in Pasadena)

Danny Elfman from that group really hit it bigtime.

They where quite ahead of the curve there for a while...

KJ

[John Rogers]

I very much liked Oingo Boingo, though I never would have called them punk.

John

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Patrician

YouTube - The Ramones: Sheena Is A Punk Rocker

I remember this one well. It was from their 3rd album Rocket To Russia. The
year was 1977. By that time, the punk "movement" was already in full
swing. This song was the Ramone's "satire" on the whole thing.

What I loved about the Ramones is that they were able to make fun of
the very thing that they were labeled.

Which is my point. The original punkers didn't originate the term. It was
pinned to them and they just said F it...and ran with it.

The Tubes, a group many don't consider punk but I do, did the same thing
with White Punks On Dope. Of course The Tubes were a total laugh
riot to begin with as evidenced by their first hit single "Don't Touch Me
There" which is probably one of the most refreshing musical pieces of
the era and genre. No, that song wasn't punk. For that matter, you
can't put a label on it. "Don't Touch Me There" was one of those lightning
in a bottle tunes that you'll never recreate.

Few people got The Tubes because they were so weird. But there will
never be another group like them. To me, they went beyond punk and
into the absurd...and did it with style.

Yes, we'll all have our own definition of punk. For me, it's about the
rebellion and not so much about the music because a lot of the music
was derivative of stuff that came before it anyway if you listen hard
enough. Some would say early punk really started in the mid 60s. I'd have
to agree after listening to some of the psychedelic stuff from that era
that certainly bordered on the rebellious.

Anyway, two songs that defined a generation of oddballs.

YouTube - The Tubes - Don't Touch me There

YouTube - The Tubes doing White Punks On Dope

[John Rogers]

The inevitable curse of punk is that no matter how punk you are, you eventually grow out of it. Pete Townshend's lyric, "Hope I die before I get old," pretty much wraps that one up in a nutshell. No matter what you once were, if you're forty years old and still trying to be an angry kid, you're a poseur.

The Clash, IMO, didn't sell out. They evolved. Well, they didn't sell out until they were done with each other, and produced an album they were obligated to only to satisfy the contract.

John

[Michael Oksa]

In the late 70s and early 80s there was a tendency to label new-sounding music as punk/new wave; as though they were the same genre.

Sure, some of both types got their start at CBGB, but Talking Heads and Blondie were as punk as the Ramones and Richard Hell were new wave.

Disc jockies and some music critics had no problem using the terms in a willy-nilly fashion. To this day, I think it causes confusion. That may be an irritation when trying to label music.

When it comes right down to it, I like new wave and punk to about the same degree. In other words, the only reall labels that matter to me are... Songs I like, songs I don't, indifferent ones and ones I have yet to hear.

Still, I have ambiguous feelings about it. It gets on my nerves when people call stuff something it isn't. Maybe it's because if they label things differently, then we are no longer on common ground - we aren't coming from the same place. And, more than anything, I wish people could enjoy music at such a deep level.

The Warriors in these music threads seem to enjoy it at that level. Most of the people I deal with, do not. They think I'm nuts when it comes to music.

On another tangent...I noticed that when discussing music here, I talk a lot about me and my experiences. I think it's because I have to somehow exorcise all of those thoughts I can't share with anyone else.

Only true music fans will know where I'm coming from.

I'll get off the stage for now. Thank you for rockin' out.

Rock on!
Michael

[John Rogers]

I was one of the rebellious DJs in my high school radio station. The faculty banned White Punks on Dope, but I snuck it in once in awhile anyway.

John

[KimW]

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

I'm not sure whether you guys ever considered Oingo Boingo as punk rock, but my circle did.

They had a 4 tune album out in the late '70s that was very good. The song "Only A Lad" was my favorite off that vinyl.

YouTube - Oingo Boingo - Only A Lad (1979 live)


The bass player for that group from 1984 thru 1995 was a heck of a dart player. I'm a WADA champ myself (1971/72) and he and I teamed up once and never got beat the whole night. (He was a friend of mine's brother in Pasadena)

Danny Elfman from that group really hit it bigtime.

They where quite ahead of the curve there for a while...

KJ

Danny Elfman hit it bigtime is an understatement.He has scored more movies than I can name, but one of the first ones has one of my fave Oingo Boingo songs. My science class was never like this:

YouTube - Oingo Boingo "Weird Science"

Originally Posted by John Rogers

I very much liked Oingo Boingo, though I never would have called them punk.

John

Me either John...

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I remember this one well. It was from their 3rd album Rocket To Russia. The
year was 1977. By that time, the punk "movement" was already in full
swing. This song was the Ramone's "satire" on the whole thing.

What I loved about the Ramones is that they were able to make fun of
the very thing that they were labeled.

Which is my point. The original punkers didn't originate the term. It was
pinned to them and they just said F it...and ran with it.

The Tubes, a group many don't consider punk but I do, did the same thing
with White Punks On Dope. Of course The Tubes were a total laugh
riot to begin with as evidenced by their first hit single "Don't Touch Me
There" which is probably one of the most refreshing musical pieces of
the era and genre. No, that song wasn't punk. For that matter, you
can't put a label on it. "Don't Touch Me There" was one of those lightning
in a bottle tunes that you'll never recreate.

Few people got The Tubes because they were so weird. But there will
never be another group like them. To me, they went beyond punk and
into the absurd...and did it with style.

Yes, we'll all have our own definition of punk. For me, it's about the
rebellion and not so much about the music because a lot of the music
was derivative of stuff that came before it anyway if you listen hard
enough. Some would say early punk really started in the mid 60s. I'd have
to agree after listening to some of the psychedelic stuff from that era
that certainly bordered on the rebellious.

Anyway, two songs that defined a generation of oddballs.

YouTube - The Tubes - Don't Touch me There

YouTube - The Tubes doing White Punks On Dope

Ah Steven you started talking aboiut the Tubes and I thought heres my chance to post Don't Touch Me There,but then you beat me to it too.
That song is definitely a classic.

[Bill Farnham]

Originally Posted by John Rogers

I very much liked Oingo Boingo, though I never would have called them punk.

John

Yea, I think Michael hit the nail on the head with "In the late 70s and early 80s there was a tendency to label new-sounding music as punk/new wave; as though they were the same genre."

I think my crowd was guilty as charged on that front.

KJ

[KimW]

How can you do the ramones without this classic?

YouTube - The Ramones - I wanna be sedated

[Patrician]

Originally Posted by John Rogers

if you're forty years old and still trying to be an angry kid, you're a poseur.

John

Oi contraire - i guess you don't believe in the 'wounded inner child' - after all we do not suddenly become a different person when we 'grow old' - we are still that same child just bigger.

however if that comment is directed at me, i will cop to severe mid-life crisis - i could even be called a 'hoochie mama' at times - it's pretty sick really and I am older than 40.

i guess by refusing to grow up i don't have to admit i am growing old.

i have not lost my 'edge' or my 'angst' - it is just deeper now.

i am no poser.

'you are only as old as you feel'

rock out.

[KimW]

I can't speak for John, but I don't think that was directed at you Patrician. That is not the first time or first place I have heard that comment.
And while what you say is true,I also think I understand where John is coming from.
As he said, Townsend had it right when he said "hope I die before I get old"

we still have our inner child but as we age we have the continued conflict with the concept of what we wanted to be and what we actually ended up being.
And thats not posing.

[Patrician]

Originally Posted by KimW

Some think punk was invented in the late 70s early 80s.
I think the roots of punk came from some backs in the 60s.
An example;

YouTube - Talk Talk - The Music Machine - 1966

yup, i hear it kim!

i agree the roots were the 1960's - you can really hear it in the Ramones - that real genuine, original rock and roll beat.

... it's there someplace, honest!

p.s. yeh, what john said townsend said...

(why i said 'directed at me' is when i started out being contrary my little inner voice said you are asking for it = you are judging - you will invite resistance! lol

it was kinda fun since we are all pretty civilized. no offense intended or assumed.

hugs all around...

[Frank Donovan]

I'm really enjoying this conversation; everyone's made some great points. Puts the lie to that famous quote: "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"

From a British perspective, the Punk movement started as a revolt against the corporateness of the record labels and the bloated "concept album" mentality of the established bands at the time, who would often disappear into the studio for months on end and emerge with some highly engineered piece of electronic chicanery that they'd never be able to reproduce on stage.

It was fuelled by an economic climate in which the idea that anyone could just pick up a guitar, learn a chord or two and put out a song was very attractive. And it resulted in hundreds of start-up bands, all putting out self-produced singles on either their own or other small independent labels.

This grew into a "do-it-yourself" culture and was the basis for fashions such as clothing held together with safety pins.

Some bands just formed for a laugh and because they realised they could (e.g. The Damned, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Adverts et al). Others saw it more as a political movement and used the music as a vehicle for their own agenda (like Wire and, of course, The Clash)

But just about everyone believed that the days of the big record companies were numbered.

Within such a context, it was fairly easy to spot which artists were "authentic" and which were faking i.e. just using the Punk wave to get themselves into the bosum of the corporate record business. Not to say that some very talented artists such as The Police and Elvis Costello shouldn't have used this route - but they probably would have been successful in any case, eventually.

Ironically, the Sex Pistols were, in many ways, a throwback to the corporate "manufactured" bands of yore, such as The Monkees. Except that the puppet master was their manager, Malcolm Maclaren and he exploited the record business itself even more than he did the band.

There were also a surprisingly large number of accomplished musicians in punk bands (e.g. The Stranglers) who probably thought it more in tune with the times to effect a "couldn't care less" attitude about their craft but weren't quite able to fully disguise their ability

Several US bands were well thought of within the UK Punk scene - The Ramones (obviously), Johnny Thunders & The Heartbreakers, The Dead Boys, Richard Hell.. And there was also a thriving "Art Punk" crowd who were into bands such as Television, Talking Heads and Patti Smith. Of course, Blondie originally came to the UK styled as a Punk band.

We all know that the whole indie label scene was soon swallowed up into the mainstream, but it was a fun ride. And today, finally, thanks to the advances and low costs of the technology and this thing called the internet, there really are opportunities for new bands to "do it themselves". This time the established record companies have reason to be afraid.


Frank

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Patrician

Oi contraire - i guess you don't believe in the 'wounded inner child' - after all we do not suddenly become a different person when we 'grow old' - we are still that same child just bigger.

however if that comment is directed at me, i will cop to severe mid-life crisis - i could even be called a 'hoochie mama' at times - it's pretty sick really and I am older than 40.

i guess by refusing to grow up i don't have to admit i am growing old.

i have not lost my 'edge' or my 'angst' - it is just deeper now.

i am no poser.

'you are only as old as you feel'

rock out.

All my life, my response to that comment was, "That's something only old people say." Unfortunately, I absentmindedly said it in reference to myself only a few weeks ago.

Now, that either means I am now old, or that the response was wrong. The former is really the only logical explanation.

I still enjoy punk, but through the years I've added many new songs and artists to what I enjoy.

There was a time when I HATED anything by Bob Dylan or Steely Dan. Goes to show that with age comes wisdom. Also, it took a while before I would openly admit to liking artists like Barry Manilow.

Rock on!
Michael

[Patrician]

YouTube - Dead Kennedys - Holiday in Cambodia...

[Patrician]

YouTube - The Stranglers - No More Heroes

[KimW]

OK, Frank, you asked for it!Time for some Television:

YouTube - Torn Curtain by Television

YouTube - Television - Marquee Moon

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by KimW

OK, Frank, you asked for it!Time for some Television:

Fantastic. Thanks, Kim.

I saw Television twice in the 70s. They were headlining both times and their support acts were Blondie and Dire Straits!



Frank

[KimW]

Interesting! Funny though, I can see Television and Blondie on the same bill but Dire Straits with Television sounds kind of surreal...........Sort of like Hendrix and The Monkees.

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by KimW

Interesting! Funny though, I can see Television and Blondie on the same bill but Dire Straits with Television sounds kind of surreal...........Sort of like Hendrix and The Monkees.

Yeah. They didn't quite latch onto the coat tails of Punk, but when Dire Straits were promoting the "Sultans Of Swing" single and few outside London had heard of them, they played a lot of small clubs. And Mark Knopfler had a sort of dishevelled, geeky look that allowed him to fit in with many of the Punkier artists of the time.

Plus, most of the audience were drinking at the bar and hardly noticed the support anyway.


Frank

[John Rogers]

Originally Posted by Patrician

Oi contraire - i guess you don't believe in the 'wounded inner child' - after all we do not suddenly become a different person when we 'grow old' - we are still that same child just bigger.

however if that comment is directed at me, i will cop to severe mid-life crisis - i could even be called a 'hoochie mama' at times - it's pretty sick really and I am older than 40.

i guess by refusing to grow up i don't have to admit i am growing old.

i have not lost my 'edge' or my 'angst' - it is just deeper now.

i am no poser.

'you are only as old as you feel'

rock out.

I was talking about bands. Specifically punk. IMO, you can be old and edgey, or old and angry, but you can't be old and punk.

John

[Patrician]

YouTube - Just for a Night - The Bloody Irish Boys

[Bill Farnham]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

There was a time when I HATED anything by Bob Dylan or Steely Dan. Goes to show that with age comes wisdom.

WHAT?!?!

Hated Steely Dan?!?!

Them's fightin' words

If I had a dollar for every Steely Dan marathon my stereo system has played, I'd make Bill Gates look like...

Ok, bad example


I can listen to those boys all day long and sing that stuff in my dreams until I wake up with a smile on my face.

You know what this means...

That's right...

A Steely Dan thread.

KJ

[Frank Donovan]

Hi John

Originally Posted by John Rogers

I was talking about bands. Specifically punk. IMO, you can be old and edgey, or old and angry, but you can't be old and punk.

I've always considered the late and much lamented Joe Strummer to be eternally punk. I guess it's more of a sensibility than a sound.

Here he is, up to his old punk tricks, at the tender age of 47:

YouTube - Joe Strummer & The Mescaleros - Rock...

Frank

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

WHAT?!?!

Hated Steely Dan?!?!

Them's fightin' words

If I had a dollar for every Steely Dan marathon my stereo system has played, I'd make Bill Gates look like...

Ok, bad example


I can listen to those boys all day long and sing that stuff in my dreams until I wake up with a smile on my face.

You know what this means...

That's right...

A Steely Dan thread.

KJ

LOL

Just posted there.

Please notice, I used the past tense form of the verb.

My tastes have grown more eclectic over the years.

In a way it's kind of cool, because I was able to discover and appreciate them as an adult. I think that made a difference. Same with Dylan, and Frank Zappa, among others.

Steely Dan may not be punk, but they rock!

Rock on!
Michael

[TimPhelan]

I saw The Tubes in 1975 or 76. I remember some girl behind me threw up on my back when they were singing White Punks On Dope.

Here's an Irish group I saw last year who are pretty popular among young punk fans, Flogging Molly. I got pushed in the Mosh Pit and had beer thrown on me. Some girl fell down and cracked her head. Another girl punched a girl on the chin right in front of me.

YouTube - Flogging Molly - "What's Left of the...

Jim Carroll died recently. He was an all American high school basketball player from New York in the early 60s. He would have played in college but he was addicted to heroin. He wrote poetry, publishing his first book of poetry at age 17, started working for Andy Warhol and then wrote an autobiography about his teenage years called The Basketball Diaries ( Great book. Highly recommended. Later made into a film staring Leonardo Dicaprio ). In 1980 he created his own new wave/punk type band and was said to be influencial. Here's People Who Died:

YouTube - Jim Carroll Band- People Who Died

[madison_avenue]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

LOL

Just posted there.

Please notice, I used the past tense form of the verb.

My tastes have grown more eclectic over the years.

In a way it's kind of cool, because I was able to discover and appreciate them as an adult. I think that made a difference. Same with Dylan, and Frank Zappa, among others.

Steely Dan may not be punk, but they rock!

Rock on!
Michael

I feel the same way about The Eagles!

[Steven Wagenheim]

Yesterday (Sep 30) was the anniversary of the release of this song.

YouTube - Tom Robinson Band - 2 4 6 8 Motorway -...

[John Rogers]

I spotted something on the way home from the post office this morning I had to share. Then I need to keep my ass out of OT so I can get some work done.

At a stop light I was behind a kid (late teens) who had two stickers on the back glass of his car. One was The Ramones and the other was The Clash. It's good to know that some kids out there still "get it."

John

[madison_avenue]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Yesterday (Sep 30) was the anniversary of the release of this song.

YouTube - Tom Robinson Band - 2 4 6 8 Motorway - Sing-A-Long

The late 1970's were politically a momentous time in Britain, far right political parties were gaining huge amounts of popular support and votes. The winter of 1979 is known in Britain as The winter of discontent. There were even some questionable sentiments expressed at gigs. Tom Robinson was the first musician to stand up against these forces. He founded an organization called Rock against Racism, to confront these attitudes. There were even physical confrontations, he was brave because at the time it was not clear which side would win and he was the first to stand up.

In 1979 Britain on sort of the edge of a precipice, there was mass unemployment and social unrest. Tom Robinson was a very prominent figure in Britain at the time:

YouTube - tom robinson band - winter of 79

He's now got a show on the bbc:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/shows/tom_robinson/

[Patrician]

YouTube - SIOUXSIE AND THE BANSHEES CHRISTINE

[Frank Donovan]

Here's the first ever release by The Police - from their "punk" days.

YouTube - The Police - Fall Out - 1977

Frank

[Patrician]

YouTube - Einsturzende Neubauten - Headcleaner

[Patrician]

YouTube - Nine Inch Nails - Wish

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by John Rogers

No matter what you once were, if you're forty years old and still trying to be an angry kid, you're a poseur.

The operative word there is "trying." If you're honestly angry, well, you should be. If the world around you doesn't piss you off, you cannot possibly be paying attention.