How To Live In Japan?

15 years ago

I don't know the answer to your question but I'm sure it will be forthcoming as there are a number of non-Japanese Warriors living in Japan.

I'm only butting in because I wanted to say something about this:

Originally Posted by Steven Heron

Re: How To Live In Japan?

I can't be the only one who immediately thought (before reading the actualy post) this sounded like something a person who hasn't fully grasped the English language would say to subtly threaten Kevin Riley?

Can I?

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Thomas

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas

I can't be the only one who immediately thought (before reading the actualy post) this sounded like something a person who hasn't fully grasped the English language would say to subtly threaten Kevin Riley?

Can I?

On second thoughts, it's not all that threatening.

Better to say: "How Long To Live In Japan?"

or:

"How Long Kevin Will Live In Japan?"

or:

"When is Kevin going to get whacked by the Hamster Godfathers?"

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Killer Joe

15 years ago

Hi Steven,

Don't know about the Visa, but have your Passport in order.

Get used to going everywhere via mass transit. They have a great system over there that makes driving/having a car redundent and overly costly.

Can you imaging stopping at a store to buy a six-pack of beer and having to pay a dollar a minute to park your car?

Just be sure you have all your papers ready as to where you are going to be staying. They will want to see that information before they let you out of the airport. At least they did with me years ago...

Be prepared to make as much noise when you eat as you can possibly can. If you eat quietly as in the western style, you will be sending a message to the chef/cook that the food sucks. Learn to slurp...And start practicing using chop sticks before you go. Once you master the art of using chopsticks a fork will seem like the stupidest invention ever devised.

Take a nice pair of open toed sandles to wear indoors like in restaurants, etc. You can't wear street shoes indoors. And don't wear your sandles outside.

If you've never seen/used a Japanese toilet you're in for a special surprise. Trust me...

Don't ever pour your own drink if you are out with Japanese friends. If your glass is empty, fill theirs first and wait for them to fill yours.

But most of all, enjoy your trip. See if you can look up Kevin Riley. I understand he's a real hoot

And one more thing...if anybody asks you if you eat Japanese food tell them no. I was given this advice before I went and ignored it. Until day #3...

KJ

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Steven Heron

15 years ago

Hi KJ,

I gathered that travelling by car, especially in the major cities, is a no no, but $1 a minute for parking? Woah! I wasn't expecting that.

And the slurping whilst eating does sound like quite a cultural contrast! I better start practicing as you say.

Seems I have a lot of cultural awareness to get through. Thanks for the tips!

And what's wrong with saying you like Japanese food? Is it different to my local sushi bar?

Looks like this gaijin will be in for a few surprises.

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Killer Joe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Heron

And what's wrong with saying you like Japanese food? Is it different to my local sushi bar?

Steven,

Trust me, you've never eaten real Japanese food. That sushi bar comment is a common theme and a good tip off that I'm correct.

Now this is certainly not a comment that is meant to put any negative spin on Japanese food, just an observation by a westerner...

It seems that anything that is organic, ie it used to be alive will be on the menu. Those fine folks either have the most refined tastebuds in the world, or they have no tastebuds at all

They can either find appetizing tastes in foods that we find awful, or they can't taste what they are eating.

So try to work your way into liking the food over time.

There are a lot of western style restaurants in the big cities, but when I was there the average cost of a western style meal was 10X what a traditional meal would cost.

Be sure to seek out other fellow countrymen/woman that have been over there for a while once you get there. They should be able to show you where the really good places to eat are. Sometimes those are just little places that seat 10 - 12 people, but the food and the atmosphere is unbeatable.

KJ

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Steven Heron

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Steven,

Trust me, you've never eaten real Japanese food. That sushi bar comment is a common theme and a good tip off that I'm correct.

Now this is certainly not a comment that is meant to put any negative spin on Japanese food, just an observation by a westerner...

It seems that anything that is organic, ie it used to be alive will be on the menu. Those fine folks either have the most refined tastebuds in the world, or they have no tastebuds at all

They can either find appetizing tastes in foods that we find awful, or they can't taste what they are eating.

So try to work your way into liking the food over time.

There are a lot of western style restaurants in the big cities, but when I was there the average cost of a western style meal was 10X what a traditional meal would cost.

Be sure to seek out other fellow countrymen/woman that have been over there for a while once you get there. They should be able to show you where the really good places to eat are. Sometimes those are just little places that seat 10 - 12 people, but the food and the atmosphere is unbeatable.

KJ

Anything organic you say? I just hope there's lots of wasabi to mask the flavour...

And yea, from what I've heard some of those restaurants seem very nice, am really looking forward to it.

Originally Posted by allsmilez

I'm actually interested in moving to Japan as well. My whole family is considering a trip over and I was wondering what we need to actually get into the country?

Coming from the USA (of course) and will be making money via the internet. How does that work and what verifications will they want from us (small kids - toddlers and baby included).

What about the money? Will my visa and mastercard debit cards work over there? How do I maintain my internet?

The language...none of us speak Japanese. Will we face any problems?

How long do you plan on staying for smilez? From what I've gathered you're allowed in for 90 days without a visa, but can't work during that time, although I'd imagine working on the Internet wouldn't really be "work" since you're not making any yen.

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Steven Heron 15 years ago

Hey Thomas,

Now that you mention it, the title does look a little "Engrish", perhaps it's good practice for what lies ahead.

From what I've seen Kevin looks like the one guy who could probably answer my question, so I better be nice.

Who are the Hamster Godfathers Are they an elite Hamster Yakuza gang?
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allsmilez

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by allsmilez

I'm actually interested in moving to Japan as well. My whole family is considering a trip over and I was wondering what we need to actually get into the country?

Coming from the USA (of course) and will be making money via the internet. How does that work and what verifications will they want from us (small kids - toddlers and baby included).

I would say check with THEM!

Originally Posted by allsmilez

What about the money? Will my visa and mastercard debit cards work over there?

They SHOULD, but there may be added fees for currency differences.

Originally Posted by allsmilez

How do I maintain my internet?

It will probably vary, like here. It MAY cost a LOT more though. Try to check it out BEFORE making reservations!

Originally Posted by allsmilez

The language...none of us speak Japanese. Will we face any problems?

I imagine that is likely, ESPECIALLY in smaller areas. Try to learn at least some useful phrases.

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addison2015

15 years ago

Visa is given according to the requirement of the traveller,it is h1 visa or h2 visa or tourist visa.

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Shannon Tani

15 years ago

Why not get married to a Japanese woman? ;-)

I'm married to a Japanese man, which means that we get to go through whichever line is shorter at customs. :-)

Anyway, I think that Japan allows citizens of some countries to go there on a working holiday visa.

Another way to get around it is to take a trip every three months. You won't have an alien card this way, which means that you cannot get a bank account or japanese apartment, but you might be able to find a gaijin house to stay in or something.

I lived in Japan for three years, but had a working visa. We're going back in a month, for a month-long visit with the in-laws. Real Japanese food sucks!

Love,
Shannon

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Steven Heron

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Shannon Tani

Why not get married to a Japanese woman? ;-)

I'm married to a Japanese man, which means that we get to go through whichever line is shorter at customs. :-)

Anyway, I think that Japan allows citizens of some countries to go there on a working holiday visa.

Another way to get around it is to take a trip every three months. You won't have an alien card this way, which means that you cannot get a bank account or japanese apartment, but you might be able to find a gaijin house to stay in or something.

I lived in Japan for three years, but had a working visa. We're going back in a month, for a month-long visit with the in-laws. Real Japanese food sucks!

Love,
Shannon

Hi Shannon,

Marrying a Japanese girl sounds like a great idea, and was one way I was thinking of getting around the issue but didn't want anyone to take it the wrong way (as if a visa was the only thing I was after).

I believe Australia has a working-holiday visa agreement with Japan, but I think it's only for a year.

You lived there for three years you say, must have been exciting. Did you manage to stay the entire three years on the single holiday visa by just renewing it, or did you have to leave the country and come in again on a new visa?

Thanks for the help Shannon I really appreciate it.

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Shannon Tani

15 years ago

I'm from the US and since we don't offer working holiday visas to other countries, they don't offer them to us. So I was on a regular working visa, sponsored by the company that hired me before I went. I actually stayed a bit longer than three years (which is the term of a working visa), and for the last month I was on a spouse visa.

My husband and I married after knowing each other just 7 months. In a way, it was a green card marriage because we wanted to move to the states and that's what you need. Of course, we love each other and all that, but we got married so quickly because of visa issues. If we had been from the same country, I think we would have waited.

So there is hope that you could get married. ;-)

However, if I were you, I'd just try to come on the working holiday visa. You can only stay a year, but that gives you enough time to make sure you like it. Cuz hey...you could end up hating it! During the year, you can figure out what to do at the end of your term.

I don't want to be the WF pimp, but if you're interested in Osaka (and really, you should be because it's the best city), I still have some single friends there (I think). I'm warning you though...the girls would always ask me if the rumors about Western men are true...

No, not the rumor that you're thinking...

They all want to be sure that it's true that Western men do 50% of the housework. heh heh. No joke.

Perhaps Mr. Riley will have more ideas...or other Japanese warriors. I know there are some out there...

Love,
Shannon

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Steven Heron

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Shannon Tani

I'm from the US and since we don't offer working holiday visas to other countries, they don't offer them to us. So I was on a regular working visa, sponsored by the company that hired me before I went. I actually stayed a bit longer than three years (which is the term of a working visa), and for the last month I was on a spouse visa.

My husband and I married after knowing each other just 7 months. In a way, it was a green card marriage because we wanted to move to the states and that's what you need. Of course, we love each other and all that, but we got married so quickly because of visa issues. If we had been from the same country, I think we would have waited.

So there is hope that you could get married. ;-)

However, if I were you, I'd just try to come on the working holiday visa. You can only stay a year, but that gives you enough time to make sure you like it. Cuz hey...you could end up hating it! During the year, you can figure out what to do at the end of your term.

I don't want to be the WF pimp, but if you're interested in Osaka (and really, you should be because it's the best city), I still have some single friends there (I think). I'm warning you though...the girls would always ask me if the rumors about Western men are true...

No, not the rumor that you're thinking...

They all want to be sure that it's true that Western men do 50% of the housework. heh heh. No joke.

Perhaps Mr. Riley will have more ideas...or other Japanese warriors. I know there are some out there...

Love,
Shannon

Shannon, I'm starting to like your way of thinking =)

Osaka looks awesome. Considering I don't know anyone there, I might just take you up on your offer if I do go over

.... but that's one nasty rumour!

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Killer Joe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Heron

Osaka looks awesome.

Steven,

Osaka is awesome. I stayed in Kyobashi while I was there and worked in Hanaten.

Rode the train to work every day and just loved it. Normal work hours in the USA are 40 hours, typically 8 hours a day for 5 days. In Japan it's 60 hours, or 10 hours a day for 6 days. So if you make frinds there and they have a normal job expect them to be rather busy during the days, except Sunday.

While I was there I ran in to very few Americans, but lots of folks from Europe and Australia. If you visit a few of the dance clubs around town you can find out where they hang out. Just hoping to run into some on the street is hit or miss at best.

Did I mention that Osaka is awesome?

KJ

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Steven Heron

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Steven,

Osaka is awesome. I stayed in Kyobashi while I was there and worked in Hanaten.

Rode the train to work every day and just loved it. Normal work hours in the USA are 40 hours, typically 8 hours a day for 5 days. In Japan it's 60 hours, or 10 hours a day for 6 days. So if you make frinds there and they have a normal job expect them to be rather busy during the days, except Sunday.

While I was there I ran in to very few Americans, but lots of folks from Europe and Australia. If you visit a few of the dance clubs around town you can find out where they hang out. Just hoping to run into some on the street is hit or miss at best.

Did I mention that Osaka is awesome?

KJ

Sounds great, am really looking forward to it. I'll definitely be hitting the clubs when I get over

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Kevin Riley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Steven,

Osaka is awesome. I stayed in Kyobashi while I was there and worked in Hanaten.

Did you ever eat at the Tachigui Kushiage (Stand and Eat Fried Stuff On Stick) place beside JR station? A bunch of old guys run it. Cheap and delicious. You drink until your legs won't hold you and then you toddle off home.

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Kevin Riley, long-time Warrior living in Osaka, Japan

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Killer Joe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Did you ever eat at the Tachigui Kushiage (Stand and Eat Fried Stuff On Stick) place beside JR station? A bunch of old guys run it. Cheap and delicious. You drink until your legs won't hold you and then you toddle off home.

Sounds familiar, especially the drinking part.

I'm a 'count my drinks so I don't end up puking' kinda guy, and that 'bottomless glass' method of pouring your friends drinks so they can pour yours takes a little getting used to. Also, the Sake is twice the alcohol level as I was buying stateside. Talk about a hangover when you mix that with wiskey...

My favorite fried food was the tiny 6" long fish backbones rolled in some kind of batter. They look fairly strange, but oh, what a treat.

Do you ever eat off those little pick up trucks with the big boiling pot of broth that you throw everything into to cook it? I bet that's something very few tourist ever do. Again, quite a treat.

Picture this... I'm 6'6" and everyone thought I was a baseball player. I did engineering work and studies. All the teams were allowed to have two Americans on their roster. Goose Gossage was over there at the time. So were a lot of other guys and they were giants compared to the Japanese players.

I used to draw quite a crowd everywhere I went. They would come up to me and go "Baseball? Baseball? like they were swinging a bat. It was pretty funny...

KJ

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seasoned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Shannon Tani

They all want to be sure that it's true that Western men do 50% of the housework. heh heh. No joke.

WHOA, WHERE did they hear THAT!?!?!? Traditionally, in the US, the man is a handyman, handles some REALLY dirty stuff(outside of the babies though.), protection, SOME "domestic" stuff, such as BBQs, and that is kind of it, with the woman handling most of the "housework". Of course, with DINKs, etc... more and more men are doing more housework, but that isn't traditional.

Steve
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Kevin Riley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Heron

I've been thinking of visiting, and possibly living in Japan for a while if I like it (I haven't been before, but am fascinated with the culture and think I will love it).

I'm just curious how fellow warriors have managed to live in Japan without being employed, considering you may get all your income from your home-based business which you work on online.

From my understanding you're exempt from a visa and can stay for up to 90 days if just visiting, but if you wish to stay longer you have to have a visa of some form, such as a working, student, or business visa etc.

So my two questions are -

1) What sort of visa would be applicable to self-employed IMers running their own online business?

2) Considering I'd have no direct business, work, study, or anything like that in Japan, would renewing the visa be possible? Could I keep renewing it indefinitely, or would I have to eventually leave the country and return again?

Of course these are questions I could ask the consulate, but I just thought I'd get an answer from fellow warriors who may have been in the same boat as me, and have managed to live in Japan for a long period without needing to leave the country.

Any answers or tips would be very much appreciated!

You can thank Shannon Tani for sending me over here. I've been living in Japan for 13 years.

1. To be living here and running your own business, there is only one way I can think of - spousal visa. For a working visa, you'd have to be working for the company and it would have to be something special. I did a year here on an engineering visa a long time ago, only because I am a mechanical engineer and a construction company owner got me the visa to advise on earthquake proofing.

2. I renewed my 90-day visa for a number of times until they pulled me into an interrogation room. They were onto the fact that I was living here, not just a tourist. They then red stamped me - which means you must have a valid visa next time to enter (That's when I got the engineering visa). And, to renew your 90-day, you have to leave the country each 90 days (a bit shorter, as you never, ever want to overstay). I used to take weekend trips to Seoul.

As for living here and liking it, you either love or hate Japan. I love the place, but I've seen others go cuckoo's nest over here.

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Steven Heron

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

You can thank Shannon Tani for sending me over here. I've been living in Japan for 13 years.

1. To be living here and running your own business, there is only one way I can think of - spousal visa. For a working visa, you'd have to be working for the company and it would have to be something special. I did a year here on an engineering visa a long time ago, only because I am a mechanical engineer and a construction company owner got me the visa to advise on earthquake proofing.

2. I renewed my 90-day visa for a number of times until they pulled me into an interrogation room. They were onto the fact that I was living here, not just a tourist. They then red stamped me - which means you must have a valid visa next time to enter (That's when I got the engineering visa). And, to renew your 90-day, you have to leave the country each 90 days (a bit shorter, as you never, ever want to overstay). I used to take weekend trips to Seoul.

As for living here and liking it, you either love or hate Japan. I love the place, but I've seen others go cuckoo's nest over here.

Kevin,

Thanks very much for your help, that does clear things up a bit for me. I notice some countries don't need any form of visa when entering for 90 days, do you know if this is a one-off thing or if it would be possible to leave the country and come back again and do as you did?

I think I'll either have to take Shannon's advice when over there or perhaps find a job of some sort, although that may be difficult before I grasp the language.

Thanks once again.

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seasoned

15 years ago

First of all, addison2015 has it BACKWARDS, and I think YOU do ALSO! The "visa" is NOT issued by the US, or under US law. It is issued by the place you are going to. JAPAN in this case.

Last I knew, ALL areas considered safe, and having good diplomatic relations with the US allowed 90 days. That includes much of europe, and japan, australia, etc..... That entitles you to VISIT, and NOTHING ELSE!!!!! I just noticed the OP was from australia. They probably have the SAME 90 day stay allowance, but Japanese laws are the SAME!!!!!

To do what you want, you will need a RESIDENT visa, issued by JAPAN! Check with the japanese government, or american embassy(OK, australian in YOUR case.) in Japan. BTW TECHNICALLY, you probably don't need a WORK visa, but you can't work for a japanese business without one! In the US, for example, a person could come on an H1B, and have the spouse come on an H4B. An H4B does NOT allow you to work, though the H1B does. AGAIN, the H?B is ONLY for foreigners coming TO the US!

allsmilez,

US Passports are issued by SOME post offices, in the US. Check at the main USPO nearest you. THEY probably have a window. Smaller ones CLOSED about 20 years ago. ALSO, last I knew, they could take some time(As I recall, count on about 3 weeks!), so do it IN ADVANCE! But, last I knew, they were only good for about 10 years. The american embassy in Japan SHOULD facilitate renewals.

Steve

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Steven Heron

15 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

First of all, addison2015 has it BACKWARDS, and I think YOU do ALSO! The "visa" is NOT issued by the US, or under US law. It is issued by the place you are going to. JAPAN in this case.

Last I knew, ALL areas considered safe, and having good diplomatic relations with the US allowed 90 days. That includes much of europe, and japan, australia, etc..... That entitles you to VISIT, and NOTHING ELSE!!!!! I just noticed the OP was from australia. They probably have the SAME 90 day stay allowance, but Japanese laws are the SAME!!!!!

To do what you want, you will need a RESIDENT visa, issued by JAPAN! Check with the japanese government, or american embassy(OK, australian in YOUR case.) in Japan. BTW TECHNICALLY, you probably don't need a WORK visa, but you can't work for a japanese business without one! In the US, for example, a person could come on an H1B, and have the spouse come on an H4B. An H4B does NOT allow you to work, though the H1B does. AGAIN, the H?B is ONLY for foreigners coming TO the US!

allsmilez,

US Passports are issued by SOME post offices, in the US. Check at the main USPO nearest you. THEY probably have a window. Smaller ones CLOSED about 20 years ago. ALSO, last I knew, they could take some time(As I recall, count on about 3 weeks!), so do it IN ADVANCE! But, last I knew, they were only good for about 10 years. The american embassy in Japan SHOULD facilitate renewals.

Steve

Thanks for your help Steve. I'm sure 90 days would give me enough time to see how I like it over there, and if need be I'll enquire about a resident visa.

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Dave Patterson

15 years ago

Kind of hard for a big, hairy crazy guy to remain inconspicuous for very long anywhere...

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derekwong28

15 years ago

I hope things are not as expensive as 20 years back when I was invited to visit Disneyland by an uncle. We went for a set Tepanyaki dinner (no alcohol) at a branch of Misono (inventor of Teppanyaki) and it costed over US100 per head. We could easily match that in Hong Kong for one quarter the price.

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

I hope things are not as expensive as 20 years back when I was invited to visit Disneyland by an uncle. We went for a set Tepanyaki dinner (no alcohol) at a branch of Misono (inventor of Teppanyaki) and it costed over US100 per head. We could easily match that in Hong Kong for one quarter the price.

Well, I recently watched a show on walmarts expansion into China. They spoke of some VERY expensive things selling over there, like chateau lafite wines for $2000 USD+! BTW food HERE, in the US, ranges from almost nothing to perhaps tens of THOUSANDS of dollars USD! NO KIDDING! EVEN for things that are roughly the same. You may be hard pressed to taste the difference. So one restaurant can't tell you what the area is like.

Steve

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Kevin Riley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Well, I recently watched a show on walmarts expansion into China. They spoke of some VERY expensive things selling over there, like chateau lafite wines for $2000 USD+! BTW food HERE, in the US, ranges from almost nothing to perhaps tens of THOUSANDS of dollars USD! NO KIDDING! EVEN for things that are roughly the same. You may be hard pressed to taste the difference. So one restaurant can't tell you what the area is like.

Steve

Yep. I watch the stupid people lay out $500-1000 for pink champagne at fancy bars, just to impress their friends. I'm sorry, I don't care how much is in my wallet, I just don't do idiotic gestures like that.

We shop at an import store and pick up bottles of Italian wines (my favourite, and I do believe they taste better than French - can't understand the fascination with French, or maybe it's my tastebuds that grew up on Swiss Veltliner) for about $6-8 a bottle.

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HeySal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Yep. I watch the stupid people lay out $500-1000 for pink champagne at fancy bars, just to impress their friends. I'm sorry, I don't care how much is in my wallet, I just don't do idiotic gestures like that.

We shop at an import store and pick up bottles of Italian wines (my favourite, and I do believe they taste better than French - can't understand the fascination with French, or maybe it's my tastebuds that grew up on Swiss Veltliner) for about $6-8 a bottle.

What's Tosti Spumanti sell for over there, Kevin? As far as I am concerned that is the best wine on the planet. I've been with groups that insist on $$$$ Dom P. but I was taught to serve what you think is best - not what you think is impressive, because that is how your associates learn who YOU are. They already know the status quos and aren't with you to learn that one. My mother used to upset guys that would come bearing gifts like bottles of Dom - she'd call them dumb monkeys. I didn't often see Dom bearers more than once. LOL.

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Kevin Riley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

I hope things are not as expensive as 20 years back when I was invited to visit Disneyland by an uncle. We went for a set Tepanyaki dinner (no alcohol) at a branch of Misono (inventor of Teppanyaki) and it costed over US100 per head. We could easily match that in Hong Kong for one quarter the price.

Teppanyaki is one of the most expensive meals out, especially if you go to the Kitashinchi area of Osaka. The other expensive meal is in a hotel restaurant. However, if you eat in regular restaurants - Chinese, Okonomiyaki, Udon, Yakitori, etc - you'll find prices quite reasonable. You can get a good bowl of Ramen for under $5. We eat out at a very nice Korean BBQ place (with melt in your mouth Wagyu and quite a few drinks) for about $40-50 for the two of us.

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derekwong28

15 years ago

Of course, you cannot use just one restaurant for comparison, Teppanyaki is intrinsicaly expensive anyway. There were other restaurants as well and many other things that was extremely mind boggling expensive to us. We also visited a few supermarkets on purpose just to check out the prices.

All those people who like to visit Japan regularly tells me that you have to live like the Japanese and use their eateries. I have lived in UK and Canada and been to the US and many European countries and still I have not ever seen anything as expensive as Tokyo. I went to Vancouver and L.A. the following year and it was as if things were 4 times more expensive in Tokyo.

World's Most Expensive Cities To Live - Forbes.com

I am surprised that Hong Kong is on that list but property costs are incredible. Personally, I found London much more expensive to live in and I thought Singapore is quite expensive as well.

One must also bear in mind that Japan was at the height of its bubble when I was there 20 years ago. Just the land under Imperial Palace costed more than that of the whole of California. Since then, it has had years of deflation so things may have even out quite a bit.

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derekwong28

15 years ago

Yup, it is very sad considering that the majority of people in China are still very poor. It has now overtaken the U.S. as the second largest luxury market after Japan.

China becomes world's 2nd largest luxury market - People's Daily Online

Not only do they order extremely expensive stuff to impress their friends, they over order as much as possible so that the more food they waste, the more face they get.

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