Spanking children - yes or no?

[tryinhere]

Originally Posted by HeySal

TRYINGHERE - PETE - If you find your own kids acting uncontrollably, I hope for both of your sakes you seek a good counselor to help with discipline decisions. Don't let your own trauma endanger your children. Don't let having to deal with discipline traumatize you either. .

I appreciate your concern, both of my girls are young adults now and only know love.

thanks and wish you well.

Guys honestly i am not here to worry about this here, if people wish to have differing views then i respect your views, You know where my views are at, i just want to get back to building online business here. I just tend to get fired up when i see stories of children being hit or hurt, i should learn just to walk on by.

cheers

[ThomM]

Currently i am organising buying some toys here for Christmas presents for kids / families that are down on their luck this year that will be part of a car club Santa run where the toys will be given to a local charity organisation for distribution on Christmas day.

Cool Pete.
We just had the Toys for Tots Bike run here last Sunday.
To ride in the run you had to bring a new present which where all given to the US Marines for their Toy's for Tots program.
Over 2,000 local bikers showed up including Hells Angels, Booze Fighters, and at least 4 other local M.C. clubs, plus local R.C. clubs and other citizens who ride. It's one of two times each year that all local bikers, 1%er's and citizens get together for a common cause. The other is the bike blessing every spring that the H.A. hosts.

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by tryinhere

I appreciate your concern, both of my girls are young adults now and only know love.

thanks and wish you well.

Guys honestly i am not here to worry about this here, if people wish to have differing views then i respect your views, You know where my views are at, i just want to get back to building online business here. I just tend to get fired up when i see stories of children being hit or hurt, i should learn just to walk on by.

cheers

All is good. If your children are happy and well adjusted, isn't that what matters in the long run? I think everyone here loves their kids even with different views on parenting.

I was spanked a few times and never once felt unloved - some kids never were spanked but don't feel all that loved. The only thing that matters is that a kid is truly cared for - safe, happy, and learns to deal realistically with the world around them.

Knowing that your own experience was unusual and criminal should help you understand that when people here say spanking, they don't mean torture and that should help relieve some of your emotions about the subject.

[successfulmom]

Let me ask you this...
Is it alright for you to hit you wife,
or husband,
co-worker or,
friend or a stranger for that matter???

Then its not alright to hit your children.

[Karen Connell]

I brought up my 5 sons alone.

I like to think I was firm but fair. I taught them respect from a very early age, no cheek, no arguing etc with their elders. Yes, they did get a smack if I thought it was necessary.

We had a system where I said to them, "I'll count to 3 and if you haven't stopped beating your brother with that sledgehammer (or whatever the bad behavior was), I will smack you". I very rarely had to administer the said punishment but only because they all knew that I always meant what I said. I never dealt in empty threats.

One of my sons who is now 27 year old told me a few years ago that the worst thing I ever did to him when he was growing up was to say "I am really disappointed that you ...". It is a bit of a joke now that he is very much a man's man and has served for 8 years in the Royal Navy. Obviously the smacks did not register as abuse in our house but disapproval did!

So, in my opinion, a smack (I don't mean a beating...) did not do my boys any harm at all and, if you were to ask them, they would agree (at least they had better agree...lol). I also used other tactics such as removing the TV and games console from their room, no spending money etc.

My sister and her husband, on the other hand, never smacked her kids and both boys ran rings round their parents. One ended up in trouble with the police.

A bit of well judged discipline never did any harm.

Opinions on discipline have changed these days though - my oldest son is 38 and my youngest is 26 - in my day, a smack (or swat) on the butt was not frowned on as it is these days.

Karen

[Tina Golden]

Opinions on discipline have changed these days though - my oldest son is 38 and my youngest is 26 - in my day, a smack (or swat) on the butt was not frowned on as it is these days.

Of course, in those days we also did not see Columbine's, did we?

Tina

[valerieSONORA]

Why do ppl without kids even care about parents views on spanking? Seems like this was created for controversy.

[chippy69]

I couldn't agree more. I have kids 9, 4 and one due in May (no I'm not a glutton for punishment) and a strategically placed and well timed spanking is indeed a deterent! Once the precedent has been set, the perceived danger of a "potential" spanking is usually enough after that.
On the other hand, I have to agree with TMG in saying that toddlers are a completely different ballgame and one must do what one must do (just to keep your sanity).

[valerieSONORA]

I think TMG is one of the most level headed people here, lol

[Tina Golden]

Valerie, I need to print that out and show people for them to believe it...lol.

Tina

[Karen Connell]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Of course, in those days we also did not see Columbine's, did we?

Tina

Hi Tina,

I had to 'google' that to see what it was - and no, I can't remember anything like that in my day!

As has been said before; if you start early, simply the thought of a punishment is usually enough to stop them in their tracks.

I don't remember having to smack (swat) my kids after they got the idea that I always meant what I said - usually by around 4 or 5 years old.

Karen

[powderme]

spanking children?for me it's ok if it they will learn from it but make sure it will not create any serious injuries and make sure to explain why.

[lcombs]

Spank the kids.

[gothic love]

spanking is not helpful there for no one should use it.

[Michael Motley]

Study: Spanked Children May Grow Up to Be Happier, More Successful - Children's Health - FOXNews.com

Young children spanked by their parents may grow up to be happier and more successful than those who have never been hit, a study has found.
According to the research, children spanked up to the age of 6 were likely as teenagers to perform better at school and were more likely to carry out volunteer work and to want to go to college than their peers who had never been physically disciplined.
But children who continued to be spanked into adolescence showed clear behavioral problems.
Children’s groups and lawmakers in the UK have tried several times to have physical chastisement by parents outlawed, the Times of London reported. They claim it is a form of abuse that causes long-term harm to children and say banning it would send a clear signal that violence is unacceptable.
However, Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of psychology at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, said her study showed there was insufficient evidence to deny parents the freedom to choose how they discipline their children.
“The claims made for not spanking children fail to hold up. They are not consistent with the data,” said Gunnoe. “I think of spanking as a dangerous tool, but there are times when there is a job big enough for a dangerous tool. You just don’t use it for all your jobs.”
Research into the effects of spanking was previously hampered by the inability to find enough children who had never been spanked, given its past cultural acceptability.
But Gunnoe’s work drew on a study of 2,600 people, about a quarter of whom had never been physically chastised.

Spank your kids often.

[Michael Motley]

children are not protected from spankings, they are protected from beatings...there is a difference.

[Michael Mayo]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

children are not protected from spankings, they are protected from beatings...there is a difference.

Depends on if it leaves a mark/physical damage.

It only requires a child to say that they were beaten for the authorities to
get involved which could really mess up someones day.

In the case of my son and the neighbor it was a case of assault on a minor.
The parent should have called me instead of taking actions into his own
hands.

He didn't press charges on me and I returned the favor.

Live and learn!

~*MM*~
PS, My son and the neighbors son did end up painting the shed the right
way as a result.

[Michael Motley]

Yeah i probably would have lit the neighbor up for smacking my child as well. But junor would have been painting that shed with a sore a$$

[Suthan M]

I came from a ASian family..

That said, I get beaten from one county to another like all the time..

Hey, i turned out fine*

Disclaimers: *I hope so !

[chuckster43]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Im involved in a discussion here at work about spanking children. Some say that its just unheard of to spank a child and should never be done. I am on the other side of the fence and think that spanking is not beating its a form of discipline and there's nothing wrong with a little swat on the butt to get reinforce a point.

I'd like to hear from some parents on this.

Mike, I could write on this one all day long and would love to get into a "round table discussion" with anyone on it. It is a touchy subject and you will always get a bunch of people weighing in on it.

I was disciplined as a child, and then I thought it was rough. But now, 60 + years later, I look back on my father with love and affection. Children are after all children. They are going to try every ounce of patience you have, and then some.

But as you, and they, go through the phases of life that parents and their children do, there must be a teacher and disciplinarian, and a student and child. We all have a really nice area that can take a lot of rough treatment hanging right there behind us. It does no harm and gets lots of attention when you warm up that area for something that needs to be seriously pointed out to the child.

You cannot let them get away with anything without them thinking that they are "getting away with something". I am not advocating coporal punishment. BUT, I am advocating punishment for all. That's part of what is wrong with America today. There are not enough serious consequences for things that are being done.

Chuck

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Of course, in those days we also did not see Columbine's, did we?

Assuming you're serious, this is a ridiculously large leap of logic, IMHO.

[Sylvia Meier]

As a child I was hit once, I hit my mother back with all my might, got car keys thrown at me and I walked out the door. She never raised her hand to me prior to that. But like someone else in the thread, by 13 I had lost my virginity, by 15 I was smoking pot full time and was an alchoholic. She never spanked me.

On the other hand was my little sister who was disobidient from the moment she was born. The ONLY way to get her attention or get her to stop ANY misbehaviour was a swift smack on the backside. By 13 she was turned over to the state because my mother couldn't handle her.

We both came from the same family, we were both raised in the same home. She was spanked, I wasn't. We both went wayward as teens. To the point I became a teen mom. It all changed at that moment for me. But it had nothing to do with whether or not I was spanked, or whether or not my sister was spanked. We were different personalities and different punishements worked on each of us.

Now I have 5 children. My eldest I REFUSED to spank. I saw it as child abuse, and I fought with her from the day she was born to keep her disciplined. At around age 4 I gave in and she started getting spankings. Guess what? Other than her preteen angst, she is a prety good kid most of the time.

My youngest daughter (turning 4) is terrified of spankings, you even mentioned it as an idle threat and her behaviour turns around. Rarely if ever does she get a spanking. She would rather behave on the threat than having it carried through.

My eldest son, we had involvement from certain agencies and child psych's etc and we're taught methods of restraint. The number of hours I held him in those stupid holds I cannot count. They did not work. He behaviour was NOT changing as a result. Spankings occured and he now behaves fine and its once in a blue moon he ever needs one. Time outs and the regualr punishments work for him.

My younger two sons, have no concept of pain. Spanking does not work. Timeouts do not work. Restraining results in injury to usually the adult. The only method that works is leaving them alone in their rooms to work out their issues and let them regain themselves and rejoin everyone else.

My point? EVERY CHILD IS DIFFERENT. For some spankings work. Others the child psych stuff works, others yet timeouts etc. But every child is different and it is up to the parent and child to figure out what works best as a term of punishment. Otherwise, you end up with the children of this generation.

People are amazed how well behaved my children are, and when they ask how I maintain them that way with so many, I honestly cannot answer, because it is not a simple answer but a complicated one like I just gave. Each child is different and so too should their punishements and consequences be.

Just my 2 cents.
Sylvia

[bizz1man]

A little spank on the butt if a child is out of control is a good wake up call for them. It must not hurt them just grab there attention. If you think about it years ago parents used to spank there kids and kids back then did not seem to get in much trouble. Now they are not afraid of authority and commit more violent crimes at much younger ages. This may be a broad view but just a thought.

[Karen Blundell]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Spanking your child is not illegal. At least not in any state near me. Abuse is illegal, naturally. There is a difference to any reasonable person.

Some of the people here that are so very dead set against the idea also talk about abuse they received as a child. Those horrible experiences have colored your outlook and that's understandable. That does not invalidate any other person's point of view, however.

I was one that went through every form of abuse imaginable as a child. I still don't have a problem with giving my children a swat on the butt when necessary. Not as a standard form of discipline but for the rare occasion when it's the only thing that will work.

I don't care who you are - you cannot reason with a toddler. They don't have that ability yet. When they pull away from you in a parking lot and dart out in front of a car, a swat on their rumps gets their attention in a hurry.

What some people don't seem to realize is that spanking is not about giving pain to the child. Frankly, if you're causing pain, you've gone too far. It's about getting their attention and letting them realize immediately that what they did was not acceptable.

Spanking is only effective before the child has that reasoning ability. Once they've hit school age, there are far too many alternatives to have spanking remain useful or effective.

Two responses to posts above:
Before spanking, wouldn't it be far more effective and to the point to TAKE AWAY THE CRAYONS? LOL.
I am not normally a very angry person, but if anyone tried to interfere with how I parent/discipline my child, I'd be furious. It's none of your business unless the child is being injured. Do you also go interfere because you don't like the way someone is talking to their child? I love it when people try to tell other people how to raise their children. There is no one way that works for everyone.

Tina

well said, Tina! There is indeed a difference between a swat on the bum of a tantrum-pulling toddler, and abuse!

I'm sorry Mark, Pete, and others who have been abused. I was another abused child: physically, emotionally, verbally. My mother was an alcoholic. At sixteen I ended up in a foster home because the judge would not send me home for my own safety. Enough said.

However, instead of growing up bitter and inflexible, I decided to forgive my parents. Why forgive them when they beat me, berated me, hurt me terribly? Why would anyone forgive that?

The answer is that they are not perfect. Even they did the best that they could do. They are both dead now, and I miss them terribly.

I think as former abused kids, there comes a point in your life when you need to stop blaming your problems and your unhappiness on your parents. At some point you have to stop being the victim. And the only way to do that is by forgiving all those who hurt you, and forgiving yourself for how you've let that bitterness of your past mar your own real happiness.

Now I am a mother to one son who is about to turn 18. I swatted his bum when he was a toddler a couple of times. I did not hurt him. Usually I would just bring out the wooden spoon and hit the table with it to get his attention. Or I used "the look". If I was overwhelmed while he was having a tantrum, I would go in my bedroom for a few minutes, and count to ten. But it was really hard to reason with my son when he was in the "terrible twos" stage.

Still, I feel I broke the cycle of abuse with my son. He and I have a great relationship. But I'm not perfect nor is he.

No one is ever going to be a perfect parent. You do your best. And that's all you can do.

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan

I have an 18 month old and I DO spank him. But I make sure that I do it a certain way.

• I never spank them when I'm angry or visibly frustrated.
• I don't spank them for doing something "wrong", I spank them when they disobey.
• I tell them the reason that I'm spanking them, because they disobeyed, and that I still love them.
• I also spank immediately when they are doing something that is putting them in danger.

Personally, I think like TORTURE, it's all about intent. 2 parents can spank their kids and it can come across in different ways. Everyone has seen parents just flip out on their kids and treat them like trash. That's abusive. But a parent that is controlled in their behavior and explains the reasoning to the child can effectively use spanking.

And the reason I brought torture up is because the same could be said about that. Actually, legally it HAS been said. And that is a specific act is not torture, it's about the intent of the person doing it. Lawyers argued this and used the example of getting waterboarded in training vs. when you're a prisoner. A lot of serviceman get waterboarded in training, does that mean they were tortured?

But let me point out things like 'flipping out and treating like trash' are subjective. What you think is bad treatment isnt necessarily what another parent thinks is bad treatment.

I can remember when i was a child and getting a spanking it was a no holds barred kind of deal. I was never punched, kicked or anything like that, but my butt might get warmed up with switch, hand, paddle, belt, hairbrush, shoe, or a randome piece of hotwheel track. And i STILL dont think that it was anything all that outrageous. But today a light swat with the hand could lead to police being called for child endangerment.

And to me...thats why back in my day, you didnt have parents talking back to their parents, disrespecting them in public or private or any other stuff like we have today. Parents get what they ask for. If you let your child walk all over you when they are younger,do you really think thats going to change as they get older?

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by ThomM

As far as hitting a child to hurt or punish them, I was as a child but choose not to go that route with my kids. As they told me later in life the punishment for them was listening to me explain what they did wrong, which was my plan all along

When I was too young to reason with, my folks set boundaries. If I willfully crossed those boundaries, I was punished. Most of the time it was an open palm on the bottom a few times, where the sound was much worse than the impact. For serious infractions, like willful repeat offenses, my dad had this belt about a half inch wide. The sucker, when doubled over, made a popping sound like a firecracker and stung like the dickens. Stung, not hurt.

The procedure was always the same. First, my brother and/or I was told what the consequences of acting out would be. If we chose to act out anyway, we knew what was promised.

We were never spanked in anger. We were reminded of the sequence of events that led up to the spanking, took our licks, and then came the worst part - The Lecture. We would stand in front of my father while he both lectured us on why the act we committed warranted punishment along with reassurance that the act was being punished, not the child. We were always reassured that our parents loved us, and we believed them.

The spankings stung. They got our attention. But the real punishment was The Lecture.

I do remember getting slapped across the face a couple of times. Both came when I let my Irish temper take over and got incoherent and hysterical - your basic tantrum. I think I was about 7 or 8 at the time. Both times, the slap interrupted the tantrum and made me rational enough to reason with again. There again, it was about the interrupt, not the physical pain. My face stung for a little bit, and was red for a little while, but no damage was done.

Originally Posted by KrazyG

I do not like to spank my kid in the future. If it is for discipline, there's an alternative way to do that. I don't want my kids to grow and hate me because of spanking them.

I like a relationship where they respect me, they're open, share stories, laugh, drink and just love each other.

My folks spanked me when I earned it, and I did respect them, was open, shared stories, had fun, etc. The two had nothing to do with each other.

Originally Posted by valerieSONORA

Why do ppl without kids even care about parents views on spanking? Seems like this was created for controversy.

Because people without kids still have to share the planet with those parents and their offspring.

I've shared charter boats with well-raised kids where I had no concept whether they were spanked or not, but they were a joy to be around. I've shared space with little monsters that should have been caged and sold to the circus.

When my wife and I go to the grocery store, I often elect to wait for her in the car. It's better for both my waistline and our food budget. It also allows me the chance to observe a lot of different people.

Two such incidents come to mind.

In the first, there was a youngish Latina mother with kids probably in the 3-5 range. I say Latina because the whole incident took place in Spanish. The youngest was obviously begging for something, and the mother told the child to be quiet. Just as they were getting to the door, the child decided to try again. That young mother gave that child a glare that made me want to keep my mouth shut. The kid calmed down and shut up, and they went into the store. When they came back out, the kid was still minding his manners.

In the second, the kid was a bit older. Probably 8-10 if I had to guess. She started in on her mother, telling the mother what she was going to buy the kid. From what I heard, the mother's name was "Bitch"... When the mother attempted to assert herself, the kid reared up and said, loud enough for anyone to hear, "You want me to call Child Services again, bitch? Is that what you want?" The mother crumbled. I truly felt sorry for both of them.

Had I tried to pull a stunt like that, I had have had my face smacked and a phone handed to me to make the call...

[zack_ferdinand]

I think it depends on what type of child you have. If your child easily follows orders, then I dont think spanking is needed. In the case that you spoiled your child, it would be hard to teach them how to be a good boy/girl again unless you spank them.

[BricknMortar]

Spanking is ok - - -beating is NOT ok - - everything in moderation

[MamaShell]

I have 3 kids age 11,9, and 1. I have never spanked them. They all are great kids so far. Never really get in any trouble and the older ones are both straight A students. So far so good.

[dwatkins]

I rarely spanked, and never in anger. When my kids were born, I did not believe in spanking and thought that I would never do it. Then my 2nd child was too smart for his own good. He kept running out into the road (we lived in a rural area, but I had taught them that they were NEVER to go in the road). He was about 4 when I caught him in the road AGAIN. So I tried to reason with him, telling him all the reasons he should not go into the road. He replied: "No mom, I've studied it and the cars always stop." The only reason that made any sense to him was that I would spank him if he did it again. Sometimes, ya gotta...

That said, I usually tried to use reason and preventative measures with my kids. If they misbehaved, I immediately removed them from the situation. I spent a night or two sitting in the car with a kid who wouldn't behave in the restaurant, while everyone else enjoyed their dinner. It usually only takes one time. (Sitting in the car with an angry mother is no fun.)

I once had to care for a kid that had a more permissive parent. We went into the grocery store and he went wild, climbing the shelves... I immediately took him and my own kids back to the car and explained how we act in the grocery store. He agreed and we went back in with no problems. USUALLY, once the kids knew what I expected, I had no problems.

So, I guess I would say that I am in favor of spanking only when necessary, but it was never off the table. Once, I threatened a spanking as a consequence if my terms were not met. My oldest son said "If you spank us I'll call Child Services." I handed him the phone.

BTW my four boys are all grown now. Two are in the military, one is an engineer and one is a starving actor/singer/dancer. I think they all turned out well.

[yukon]

Spank them!

I look back at being a kid & now see I needed the spanking (only happend a few times in my life).

Each time kept me straight, for a couple of years.

That's what's wrong with todays kids, they don't have a clue when to straighten up & behave because parents will get locked up for keeping the kids in line.

Then everyone around will complain when the kids go wild.

Spank them when they need it!

[thunderbird]

Originally Posted by successfulmom

Let me ask you this...
Is it alright for you to hit you wife,
or husband,
co-worker or,
friend or a stranger for that matter???

Then its not alright to hit your children.

I completely agree with you.

[KimW]

I love these old threads getting resurrected.

[Dave Patterson]

I think I need a spanking.

[KimW]

Dave, always glad to help out.
I think I have Ken's number here somewhere!