Non-Rock/Obscure = Different/World Music

[KenThompson]

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Glad you liked that Ken. Here's another lesson from a well known jazz guitarist and in a much slower explanation that Pat Martino:

Here's another performance by John Scofield with the late great bass player Jaco Pastorius:

Here's a jazz guitarist more obscure but definitely one of my favorites of all time. Maybe only Pat has ever heard of him here on the Warrior forum, but he was doing stuff on guitar 40 something years ago that nobody, I mean nobody, else was.

Tim, this is all fabulous stuff. I've created a jazz guitar bookmark and saving it. When
I get a guitar I'll have plenty of material to learn and practice. It'll be great learning
this stuff so I can have something cool to play.

When I was younger I had terrible stage fright and basically could not play in front of
people. But I used to jam with guys I knew and trusted. They understood and were
cool about it.

I was acquainted with a guy, in the 80's, who was probably in his 60's and he was a
jazz bassist. He had white hair and only played the stand-up bass. This guy was from
another planet. But he was cool, and he always wanted me to jam with him and his
jazz buddies at local clubs. I was mortified at the prospect of doing that. I always
told him I didn't know anything about jazz. I never understood why, but he would
always say it didn't matter. They would teach me while we played. I was a dumbass
for not doing it. One of those life regret things.

Thanks for the cool stuff, Tim.

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Okay, I just went to YouTube and typed in Disturbed and picked out a
song at random...Indestructible.

This isn't even close to what I call noise. I can even sing this back after
a few listens. In fact, this song kicks ass. I'm going to go listen to some
more of their stuff.

But no, this isn't noise. I wish I could find an example of what I'm talking
about but I don't know any of the groups WSOU plays that sound like that.

But this song...wow...really good.

Steve -- exactly.
This is the band that brought me out of the old rock into the new and they did it real strong and real hard. That guy is a fantasy walking - his voice has raw feral power, but he also has enough melody to be hypnontic - they know music, know how to play and their music has depth, variation. These guys knocked me for a loop.

After I found them I started to love ragey headbanging rock and roll - and most people won't listen long enough to find out how deep it can go and how good it can be. That's why I said what I did -- I just really needed someone to really listen to it - and you "got it". Kudos. Maybe I picked the wrong song, but it's one of my favorites. It's hard to love a type of music and watch people turn away or even insult it without really ever exploring it.

Some of this stuff can go overboard but there's hacks and geniuses in all fields - trouble with this field is it can get real hard-core and some people just can't listen to it. If someone is screaming rage the whole song and never drops into melody, it's hard to take - even for me. I just seems to kill the effect to over-do it. I know what ones you mean though.

Me - I can handle anything as long as they hit some melody between the rage. I love a drum and base that I can feel vibrate my whole body. I love lyrics that go deeper than "I wanna hold your hand". I guess Disturbed is my 2000's version of Spirit. But they aren't the only ones - Rob Zombie is awesome, Megadeth, Il Ninio, Drowning Pool.


Wanna hear another guy with incredible vocals?
This song was Munchie's favorite - had to play CD's in the MT's where you can't get radio - every time I played it he'd paw the dashboard when it was over until I played it again - and again. I'd finally have to tell him no more and play something else. It's by TOOL - and if you like something a little bit on the metal side without a lot of rage, these are some of the guys that will do it for ya.

YouTube - Tool - The Pot

I'm glad you listened Steve. I am glad you can understand and appreciate why I am so captivated, even if it never becomes your favorite variety of rock.

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by Patrician

Sal, I am the one that hates it.

Don't get defensive.

I'm sorry, hearing the 2nd one, I still say it sounds horrible.

We can disagree -

Please don't try to imply it means anything about Hendrix or our parents or anything else.

Chill out Pat - all good. If you don't like it fine - but it's not awful. Those guys have talent, you just don't like them and there's a difference between don't like and awful --- it was Steve's comment that set me off - beat too fast, lyrics that type of thing. I knew he'd at least find them interesting if he gave them a shot, but picked the wrong song. Anyhow, like I said, I'm glad I made the "turned into our parents" comment, because a lot of people do just turn off when they hear "heavy metal" "rage rock" anything like that and they never hear the REALLY GOOD ones. The comment was made to make people stop if they didn't really listen before saying "yuck" and at least listen.

Some are just geniuses..........but they have a hard core very driving sound and if you don't like it there isn't anything that's going to make you like it.

I introduced my Favorite guys to someone who has enjoyed exploring them and that makes it all good with me whether I bump into him at the next concert or not, ya know?

[KimW]

Unfortunately this is the best version of this song I could find on youtube:
King Missle, Detachable Penis

YouTube - Detachable Penis King Missile

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

1. Loud and extremely fast drumming. Almost inhumanly fast.
2. Loud distorted guitars to the point where you can't make out any chords.
3. Lead singer screaming at the top of his lungs. No distinguishable lyrics.

Oh yeah, you mean the stuff I listen to!

YouTube - Behemoth-Evangelion 1. Daimonos

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

What I dislike is noise.

And I guess "noise" is a very subjective thing as each person is going to
have their own definition.

Noise is sound in which you can detect no recognisable pattern.

The human brain is a pattern-matching machine. Give it something new, and it looks for patterns... and if it doesn't find any, it pulls the "noise" cord and stops looking.

Once you've seen the pattern in a particular variety of music, you can't un-see it. There's a point where your brain "clicks" with it, and it becomes a recogniseable and predictable form, but until then it's just noise.

It took a lot of black and death metal before my brain went "oh yeah, there it is!" and I started to actually enjoy it. You need to reach a point where all that growling and screaming starts to sound like intelligible speech.

I think what happens with most people is they stop listening to new music after a certain age, the music evolves, and they aren't listening... so there's this big quantum leap in musical thought, and they didn't follow along. If you back up and start moving forward one or two years at a time, the pattern doesn't change so much, and you can develop an appreciation for things that seem like noise today.

[KimW]

And sometimes noise is just noise.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Sal, for what it's worth, I am extremely open minded when it comes to
music. As a musician, if you're a true musician, you can't be any other way.

But CD hit the nail on the head.

When confronted with things we don't recognize, we look for anything with
which we can grab onto and identify with. If we can't, we can then do two
things.

1. Continue to listen until we find something.
2. Chalk it up as noise.

I try to do 1 most of the time, but occasionally, I will hear something that
is so far removed from what I can identify with that it's just not worth
the effort.

But it really doesn't have anything to do with age, at least not for me.

When I was about 21 and heard my first death metal, I turned off the
station within 5 seconds. There was no way I was going to listen that
noise coming out of the speakers.

Actually, as I have gotten older, I have become more open minded having
gotten more into writing and music appreciation. But there is still stuff that
you couldn't convince me had any musical value if you put a gun to my
head.

One day, I will find one of the tunes that WSOU regularly plays on their
station, hopefully find it on YouTube, and post it here and you'll hear
what I'm talking about.

What boggles my mind is how anybody can scream like that for 4 minutes
without destroying their vocal cords unless it's all just effects.

[Patrician]

All I can say is 'To Each His Own' - 'Judge not Lest Ye Be Judged'

It is just ironic because I am sure people cannot fathom how someone my age likes loud angry hard core punk - and now I can't understand louder and angrier to the point of feeling I am being assaulted from within my inner ear! LOLOLOLOL To each his own.

Back to 'OBSCURITY IN NOT BEING MAINSTREAM' I would like to submit this meditation for this beautiful Sunday morning -

Have a lovely, blessed day, Wonderful Warriors.

I HAVE GOT TO GET TO WORK - TODAY IS GHOSTWRITER DAY - MUWAHAHAHA.

YouTube - Chant to the sun

YouTube - Yeha Noha - Sacred Spirit - Wishes of...

[Michael Ellis]

Damn, just when I was getting ready to post some KISS disco videos...

[Patrician]

Coffee Break.

Wow Tatanka seems to be a little rock and rolly. very infectuous.

YouTube - tatanka-manantial

YouTube - Group Indian Spirits - Tatanka

[Patrician]

Andes (Peru)

YouTube - Quichua Mashis nw folklife music from...

Andina (Equador, Bolivia, Peru)

YouTube - musica andina (peru Bolivia Ecuador)

Bolivia

YouTube - Cholita Marina "Bolivian...

[ThomM]

Here ya go Pat.
I was turned on to Youssou after hearing him preform with Peter Gabriel.

YouTube - Youssou N'Dour performs My Daughter

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

Damn, just when I was getting ready to post some KISS disco videos...

Like this one?

YouTube - Kiss - I was made for loving you

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

When I was about 21 and heard my first death metal, I turned off the station within 5 seconds. There was no way I was going to listen that noise coming out of the speakers.

Believe it or not, I felt much the same way at first.

What boggles my mind is how anybody can scream like that for 4 minutes without destroying their vocal cords unless it's all just effects.

There are vocal coaches who specialise in the specific techniques of death and black metal - Melissa Cross is the 800-pound gorilla in this space. Don't know if you have any in Jersey, though.

[Patrician]

YouTube - Blind Lemon Jefferson - See that my...

[Patrician]

YouTube - blind lemon jefferson he arose from the...

[Patrician]

YouTube - Bluegrass Gospel: I Saw The Light-I"ll...

[Patrician]

YouTube - Sunny Side - bluegrass weekend

[HeySal]

Steve - LMAO, my comment wasn't about age - it was about attitudes, which I see by the fact that you actually went to find out about Disturbed, that I was wrong about - you have to admit though, the comment was a pretty pat answer to rock and roll in the 60's. Ah...BTW.........I believe I am a bit older than you are. I was just pointing out that people heard that same thing about rock when rock first came in - noise.
As the song says "Rock and roll ain't noise pollution................

Anyhow - I just got my own education.

CD - thank you for that enlightening explanation. I always thought people were just being facetious and musically bigoted when they called my favorite stuff - noise, trash, etc. But what you said makes so much sense.

My main education was linguistics. Well, you know how people make jokes about the Japanese and their confusion of R and L - such the joke goes - what is a woman who has one leg shorter than the other called in the US?; ILENE - what is she called in Japan?; IRENE.
The fact is that in the Japanese language there is no differentiation between the liquitives R and L -- and they can't HEAR the difference until they are actually TAUGHT to hear it. Once they are taught to hear it, they can hear it even in their own language and it can cause a tad bit of confusion in their first language for them until they get re-used to their own sound.

So what you said makes so much sense to me. I expect that I will have a bit more patience with those who can't see what I really rock out to as anything other than "noise", too. It always blew me away to hear some band with just incredible genius getting called trash. I always thought of it as a social thing.

BTW - I liked your Youtube - I could understand a lot of the lyrics, I do prefer more of a mix between melody and rage - but it fit pretty well with the mode of the song so it didn't bug me.

[Patrician]

Man, why can't someone just not like something? Why does there have to be all this justification or rationalization making someone wrong or less aware than you, if they don't like something that you like?

Can't people just have an opinion that is just as valid to them as it is to you seeing it the other way around? It really has absolutely nothing to do with the 60's or anything else about not checking it out or giving it a chance.

I don't see anything at all new and different about this group - if you are trying to say someone is just old fashioned or can't/won't hear something new. I don't think heavy metal, speed metal, death metal or devil metal is new or in the least innovative. It is just irritating TO ME.

In any case it is not obscure in the sense of the topic of this thread - meaning different. I think it is real close to mainstream - popular and commercial probably.

I happen to be someone that has always loved experimental music - and some of it really is noise - like machines, traffic etc - chaos - love it - cacaphony. love it - discord - love it , and loud love it.

I just don't see how it is 'a social thing' to have an honest opinion or that if you think someone is a genius and I think they are trash that you are somehow necessarily right and I am wrong.

Like I always say, what Bob says 'you are right from your side and I am right from mine'. I am down with that and it ok with me that you like this group that I hate. I don't think there is something wrong with you because of that - and by the same token I know there is nothing wrong with me.

sheesh.

p.s. Munchie had some decent taste in music above - my thank you button never works here.

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by KenThompson

Here, Patrician and everyone else...

It's time to relax a bit to some Native American flute music.

YouTube - Native American Relaxation ~ Flute ~ Pipes

Flute is a beautiful instrument - they are of the morning, I think. But...
if you want me to get all Kokopeli over native music.......it's the drums. Holy cow the Utes out in Colorado could really rip up those skins. When the campfires were blaizin' those drums would start in and the dancing would get so intense that it was almost enchantment....of course, we were at 10,000 feet and there wasn't much oxygen, and there were pipes.....
Ya know, I can't even remember what all of the other instruments they were playing were. All I remember is those wild raging drums. If you don't think instruments can talk - go listen to those drums sometime - those and one other thing.

They also had an instrument that was kewl to watch - it was like morraco's, don't remember what they are called right now- some sort of thin skin with quartz crystals inside and they would shake those with the drums and the quartz would let off little zaps like lightning and you could see it through the skins, they sounded neat, but it was more awesome to watch them strobe with the drums. Very intense partying - no other form of music could have substituted.

[Patrician]

Here would be some innovative, obscure, industrial musicians that probably everybody here hates but me. Doesn't make me like them less - the musicans or the detractors.

Hope it is not too far out for your taste.

YouTube - Einsturzende Neubauten - Headcleaner

[Patrician]

These guys have to invite the Fire Dept to have a concert - at least in San Francisco - you can't really tell how loud they are unless you are there but I will tell you it is ear splitting and harrowing. These are all "home made" robots by Mark Pauline. They build them and wreck them just for the noise and 'effect'. Really exciting and innovative - and truly INDUSTRIAL.

YouTube - Survival Research Labs - U. S.

YouTube - SRL - Six Flags Over Hell

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by Patrician

Here would be some innovative, obscure, industrial musicians that probably everybody here hates but me. Doesn't make me like them less - the musicans or the detractors.

Hope it is not too far out for your taste.

YouTube - Einsturzende Neubauten - Headcleaner

I could sit through a concert - but I wouldn't buy a CD. Been to a lot of smaller concerts with local bands that do this kind of stuff - you are right - hard core industrial stuff.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by HeySal

The fact is that in the Japanese language there is no differentiation between the liquitives R and L -- and they can't HEAR the difference until they are actually TAUGHT to hear it.

You find the same thing in Russian; there's a single letter which is pronounced (roughly) "shch" - and it's very, very difficult to identify and pronounce this sound at first. Once you learn it, the sound becomes obvious, and you start to understand the frustration of people who say their name is "Sashcha" and someone says "Sasha?" - no, SASHCHA, moron. SASHCHA.

I'm an amateur linguist by necessity, having moved around a LOT in my childhood. I can't fluently speak anything other than English, but I have a rudimentary understanding of a dozen or so languages. Probably about enough to speak to a two-year-old.

BTW - I liked your Youtube - I could understand a lot of the lyrics, I do prefer more of a mix between melody and rage - but it fit pretty well with the mode of the song so it didn't bug me.

Personally, I'm a Cradle of Filth fan more than anything...

YouTube - Cradle Of Filth - The Death Of Love

[HeySal]

CD - yeah, Japanese was just the most widely recognized example - each language has some. I used to speak restaurant French and German - but that's not my branch of the field - my branch is where cognitive science (hard-wiring), personality, sociology, structure and semantics, come together and form one entity. The source and beginning of abstract thought.

Craddle of Filth is okay - my style is anything you can really move to. Don't get me wrong - I listen to stuff as mellow as Yanni - but if I am the one playing the music, you can probably bet you'll be dancing around the place at one point or another. I am not a singer, can't play a guitar other than a few scales and chords, and can't cordinate my hands and arms for drums -- I am a dancer and my music is movement.

[Patrician]

YouTube - Babatunde Olatunji - Oya (Primitive...

[Patrician]

Santana and everybody else covered Babatunde's song - he was quite the celebrity of the avante garde in California 1960s (RIP)

YouTube - Babatunde Olatunji and Drums of Passion...

[Patrician]

New York 90s (RIP Baba)

YouTube - The Late Baba Olatunji at the...

[Patrician]

YouTube - traditional west african drumming with...

[Patrician]

YouTube - Grupo Afro Koteban - Sorsonet

[Patrician]

Freakin' Fantastic

YouTube - Tozvireva Tingaputike Neshungu-Mbira...

[Patrician]

More from Freakin' Fantastic! Get up outta yo chair and dance it off!
When I find something like this it is just such a blessing.

...only i will be stuck on this for daze - will lose pounds (it's all good).

YouTube - Kumatendera--Mbira DzeNharira

[Patrician]

This is an ingenius set - some of my top #1 favorite music on the planet. The group is Slainte from the UK but the star is Heath (pipes/fiddle) from Tasmania who is sitting in.

YouTube - Wild celtic bagpipe piece

YouTube - Wild celtic fiddle piece

[Frank Donovan]

Wow, Patricia. I leave you for one day and you turn the OT forum into the WOMAD festival

Some great vids to enjoy, thanks. Particularly the Wild Celtic - I only heard of them when you posted in your previous thread.


Frank

[TimPhelan]

Great music Pat. Here's a group from Brazil I love:

YouTube - Zuco 103 - Nunca Mais

YouTube - Zuco 103 - Treasure (2002) ?STEREO?

[Kurt]

While not abscure, here's a Jeff Beck song with strong middle eastern influences...You don't hear this sound, or beat, very often:

YouTube - Jeff Beck - Blast From The East

Another from JB...This one with an eastern european sound:

YouTube - Jeff Beck - Nadia -

Hank Williams song played Zydecho style:

YouTube - Buckwheat Zydeco - Hey Good Lookin'

This song was first recorded in 1930...Before the genre was known as c/w:

YouTube - Blue Yodel #8 Muleskinner Blues

Here's another blue yodel from Jimmy Rodgers:

YouTube - JIMMIE RODGERS -BLUE YODEL # 9

[Patrician]

YouTube - Masters of Persian Music - Saz va Avaz...

YouTube - Persian`s Sufi Music

[Patrician]

YouTube - assyrian music halmon net playing...

[Patrician]

YouTube - KURDISH - ZURNA - DAVUL

[Patrician]

YouTube - Turkish Instrumental Music Rast Ilahi

YouTube - zurnaci Erdogan & Selman ilhan (...

[Patrician]

The master musicians next 3 posts

Ravi Shankar - sitar
Ali Akbar Khan - sirod
Ustad Sabri Khan - sarangi

YouTube - Ravi shankar Ali Akbar Khan and Alla...

[Patrician]

YouTube - Ustad Ail Akbar Khan

[Patrician]

YouTube - Sarangi by Ustad Sabri Khan

[ConcordeWarrior]

YouTube - I Muvrini- O salutaris

[ConcordeWarrior]

YouTube - I Muvrini - Requiem

[TimPhelan]

I've seen this guy a couple times. Puts on a great show. King Sunny Ade.

YouTube - KING SUNNY ADE

[ConcordeWarrior]

YouTube - Constantinople-Barbara Furtuna-...

[ConcordeWarrior]

YouTube - Barbara Furtuna - Miseremini Mei