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Non-Rock/Obscure = Different/World Music

by Patrician
145 replies
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It really was not the same as, nor was it to compete with Stephen's Musical Obscurity thread, which was songs that are obscure because they bombed or never were very POPULAR - obscure = defunct.

Mine was music that is DIFFERENT kinds of music - not really rock and roll that are obscure because they are different.

It was here when I logged off at midnight

Does anybody know why it was deleted?

Did someone feel threatened by it in some way?

If there was a bad post added it could have been removed and shouldn't have meant the thread got deleted.
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

    It really was not the same as, nor was it to compete with Stephen's Musical Obscurity thread, which was songs that are obscure because they bombed or never were very POPULAR - obscure = defunct.

    Mine was music that is DIFFERENT kinds of music - not really rock and roll that are obscure because they are different.

    It was here when I logged off at midnight

    Does anybody know why it was deleted?

    Did someone feel threatened by it in some way?

    If there was a bad post added it shouldn't have mean the thread got deleted.

    Pat, I didn't even notice it was gone. If it was deleted I can't imagine
    any reason why. There was certainly nothing offensive about it. It wasn't
    political or religious so I don't get it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Thanks Stephen.

    It was bad enough it was being ignored mostly.

    Now this!?!
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    It was here last time I looked , I saw nothing offensive about it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
      Pat,

      I never looked at the thread, so my appologies for ignoring it

      But the thread ranks #2 on G for 'Obscure Different Music' and might have attracted some unsavory trolls (just guessing).

      You know how weird those music people are...:p

      KJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        For what it's worth, the only reason I didn't contribute to the thread was
        because all my obscure music knowledge is of bands 30 plus years old. I
        don't know anything about modern day obscure music. Heck, I hardly know
        what's popular let alone obscure.

        But I am sorry it got zapped. Even if some of the videos posted were
        "objectionable" (whatever that means) it shouldn't have killed a whole
        thread.

        Pat, why not just start another one and hope nobody posts any
        headbangers.

        (Only kidding Sal)
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Pat - I posted a few more obscure headbanger bands that I really love.......maybe someone is against modern headbanging? I can't imagine why anyone would delete a whole thread over a few songs though. If they didn't delete the thread over the post that others were calling crap, I can't see them deleting over the choices I made. Even if they decided to censor taste in music, it should have just been my post and frankly, I chose songs from the bands that would be the most palatable generally, LOL - if people that don't listen to modern hard rock can consider any of it palatable, that is.

    Anyhow - if you got deleted over my post, I feel that was very wrongfully done. I don't think that is the case though.........I'm thinking it's most likely a glitch.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Thank you all for responding - whatever the reason, I feel better -

    I guess I will just hang in the 'popular' music threads when I feel the inclination.

    I don't think anybody likes them better than I do, but after several pages they get a little tedious for me since I try not to miss a single video - long about the time I have to start writing down 'go back to page 5, post x - then I know I don't need another responsibility! LOL.

    Having said that I can't remember ever having more fun online than the music threads we have had here!
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Yeh see, even you, a wordsmith do not get the difference, Stephen! hehehe

    It had nothing to do with 'Now' - It was a differnet connotation to the word 'obscure'.

    Again - your obscure meant never popular, - music you probably never heard of unless you have a hobby/profession where you keep track of music popularity/ratings = obscure.

    Mine had to do with being DIFFERENT - Not exactly in any category or genre - like an obscure sense of humor - nobody really gets it - off the wall = obscure.

    hmmmm as I am trying and trying to define the difference the edges are getting more and more gray.

    I can see where it may have been seen as a duplicate topic....

    Maybe by the groups mentioned you will see what I mean by a little different.

    Included in there were groups like

    Enigma
    Trans Siberian Orchestra
    Angelo Badalamenti
    Wild Celtic (pipes/fiddle)
    Finlay MacDonald (pipes)
    Lunasa (Uillean pipes/flutes)

    Not exactly Led Zeppelin or AC/DC right? Not exactly some DoWop-HardRock-BSide from the MothBall Fleet.

    OH WELL. I am officially pissed.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Yeh see, even you, a wordsmith do not get it, Stephen! hehehe

      It had nothing to do with 'Now' - It was a differnet connotation to the word obscure.

      Again - your obscure meant never popular, - music you probably never heard of unless you have a hobby/profession where you keep track of music popularity/ratings = obscure.

      Mine had to be with being DIFFERENT - Not exactly in any category or genre - like an obscure sense of humor - nobody really gets it - off the wall = obscure.

      hmmmm as I am trying and trying to define the difference the edges are getting more and more gray.

      I can see where it may have been seen as a duplicate topic....

      Maybe by the groups mentioned you will see what I mean by a little different.

      Included in there were groups like

      Enigma
      Trans Siberian Orchestra
      Angelo Badalamenti
      Wild Celtic (pipes/fiddle)
      Finlay MacDonald (pipes)
      Lunasa (ulilian pipes/flutes)

      Not exactly Led Zeppelin or AC/DC right? Not exactly some DoWop-HardRock-

      OH WELL.

      Ah, I get it (I think ) I have heard of Trans Siberian Orchestra. My
      daughter loves them. I guess they could be considered out of the
      mainstream. Is that what you meant by obscure?

      In that case, a lot of the "obscure" stuff I heard from the 60s and 70s
      could have been considered out of the mainstream as well, like Gentle
      Giant.

      See, the problem is, there are two kinds of "obscure" the way I see it.

      1. Big groups that had songs that just didn't get much air play.

      2. Unknown groups.

      And then, you could split this up even more if you want.

      1. Unknown groups that play "traditional" rock and pop.
      2. Unknown groups that play "different" music.

      I guess an example of the latter would be World Inferno that plays a
      kind of music I think they call ska. I don't really understand it but you
      can have a listen here. My daughter really loves them.

      This tune is really catchy.

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      • Profile picture of the author Patrician
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Ah, I get it (I think ) I have heard of Trans Siberian Orchestra. My daughter loves them. I guess they could be considered out of the
        mainstream. Is that what you meant by obscure?

        This tune is really catchy.

        YouTube - World/Inferno Friendship Society - Mayor Of Bridgewater
        Yeh that would have fit - I think I can say this is 'art' type music (i know i know all music is art). Intelligent - actual music with words. Nice - different.

        and Yes - out of the mainstream as far as 'obscure'. You got it, Mr. Wordy.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    LOL Stevie Guitar man..........ripe for the plan.
    So what will we see When Steve pulls out of the blast from the
    past and steps into 2000 with the lyrics of madness and the screaming
    angry guitar... standing on the stage counting fists raised in rage........

    And will they go to their knees when Steve the sweetie turns out
    to be the new revolution?

    LOL - just kiddin' too Steve.

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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      LOL Stevie Guitar man..........ripe for the plan.
      So what will we see When Steve pulls out of the blast from the
      past and steps into 2000 with the lyrics of madness and the screaming
      angry guitar... standing on the stage counting fists raised in rage........

      And will they go to their knees when Steve the sweetie turns out
      to be the new revolution?

      LOL - just kiddin' too Steve.

      YouTube - disturbed prayer
      This is really awful. Gave me a headache - oh is that why they call it head banger? Just horrible.

      Wouldn't have fit obscure=different - may have fit in obscure=losers

      I know for sure now heavy metal is not industrial rock
      Headbanger is not Punk.

      God forbid nothing like it.

      No offense Sal but this is really awful.

      Hey new genre - Electric Chair - meaning they should be executed (joke) for making such horrible noise and trying to pass it off as music.

      However I don't think they would have deleted the thread because of it!

      HAHAHAHA
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Pat - Disturbed is not "obscure". I've heard better accustics for their stuff - this sounds like a poorly taped live - but if you like great lyrics, this one is on the mark in
    my book -- I happen to love this sound, too - but liked the cleaned up version on their disc a lot better myself, you can hear what they are saying and not so much fuzz.
    These guys are actually awesome musicians if you listen to some of their other stuff. They aren't "awful" -- they just don't have the sounds that you like. They are rage
    and they have one HUGE following.

    I posted that particular one because of what I said to Steve in the last post - it fit. Go to Youtube and look up other songs of theirs that aren't live and you'll get more of an idea - you can usually hear the lyrics.

    I know enigma - which is the other side of the new sounds - mellow, calm - More your type of sound Pat.
    Try this one on for size: From the metal Opera AVANTASIA

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Pat, if you want to know what awful is, I can describe it to you. They
      play this stuff at the local college station where my daughter attends.

      The main characteristics are:

      1. Loud and extremely fast drumming. Almost inhumanly fast.
      2. Loud distorted guitars to the point where you can't make out any chords.
      3. Lead singer screaming at the top of his lungs. No distinguishable lyrics.

      I don't know what this type of music is called but it literally sounds like the
      hounds of hell.

      If anybody knows what I'm talking about and can post an example, great.

      I think.
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      • Profile picture of the author Patrician
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Pat, if you want to know what awful is, I can describe it to you. They
        play this stuff at the local college station where my daughter attends.

        The main characteristics are:

        1. Loud and extremely fast drumming. Almost inhumanly fast.
        2. Loud distorted guitars to the point where you can't make out any chords.
        3. Lead singer screaming at the top of his lungs. No distinguishable lyrics.

        I don't know what this type of music is called but it literally sounds like the
        hounds of hell.

        If anybody knows what I'm talking about and can post an example, great.

        I think.
        Yeh I know exactly what you mean Stephen. I think Distrurbed is a good example - horrible.

        Sorry - this will never be PUNK - rather have Punk be DEAD.

        I couldn't care less about lyrics - I am a dancer - I want to hear instrumentation that you can actually dance to. OR EVEN JUST LISTEN TO.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        1. Loud and extremely fast drumming. Almost inhumanly fast.
        2. Loud distorted guitars to the point where you can't make out any chords.
        3. Lead singer screaming at the top of his lungs. No distinguishable lyrics.
        Oh yeah, you mean the stuff I listen to!

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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Pat -

      I know enigma - which is the other side of the new sounds - mellow, calm - More your type of sound Pat.
      Try this one on for size: From the metal Opera AVANTASIA

      YouTube - Avantasia - Farewell (Michael Kiske)

      Thanks Sal I do like that and it would have fit in my version of obscurity - it is not however 'my type of sound' - it would be one type on the favorite side, CELTIC however.

      My type of sound would be punk rock, industrial rock, original rock, psychedelic rock, Celtic, jazz, experimental, Eastern (far and middle) AND OBSCURE - but it has to be M-U-S-I-C
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I think I posted an example when I posted that thread about "can anyone listen to this?" or something similar. Or maybe it was "How can anyine listen to this".

    Anyway, Sal is right, disturbed is well known among the punk crowd.

    The problem is what we call punk and what kids today call punk are totally different things/sounds.

    By the way, that band that I posted, that my future son is law is "singing" in opened for disturbed a few months back.

    The band members thought they were playing with the Gods.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Anyway love you guys -

    we are not going to agree on everything and maybe this is one of them -

    hopefully we can appreciate each other's differences

    even if you are tone deaf LOLOLOL - I know most people hate Punk and I don't know many people other than you guys that share my affection in that regard - at least I think you more than tolerate it!

    Anyway i think we have beat this horse to death. I need to get back to work. and get ready for my working day off work tomorrow! (read work 7 days)

    eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Anyway love you guys -

      we are not going to agree on everything and maybe this is one of them -

      hopefully we can appreciate each other's differences

      even if you are tone deaf LOLOLOL - I know most people hate Punk and I don't know many people other than you guys that share my affection in that regard - at least I think you more than tolerate it!

      Anyway i think we have beat this horse to death. I need to get back to work. and get ready for my working day off work tomorrow! (read work 7 days)

      eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

      Pat, I love punk...but...as with ALL music, at least for me, I can only
      handle small doses. I can't listen to any one kind of music for hours on
      end. Eventually, I get tired of it. Doesn't matter if it's Beatles, R&B, punk,
      AC, country or whatever. That's why I like to hop around YouTube and
      just listen to all sorts of stuff not even related, like ELP one minute and
      Sex Pistols the next and follow that up with Carpenters.

      I think this comes from growing up listening to AM radio where they played
      a variety of music, unlike today where every station is specialized.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    OMIGOD - I HAVE A TAPE like these.

    I CAN'T BELIEVE EVEN THIS IS ON YOUTUBE.

    NOW THIS IS O-B-S-C-U-R-E

    I CAN GET HIGH NOW.

    (this is FAR) aka way







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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    OHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The main characteristics are:

    1. Loud and extremely fast drumming. Almost inhumanly fast.
    2. Loud distorted guitars to the point where you can't make out any chords.
    3. Lead singer screaming at the top of his lungs. No distinguishable lyrics.
    Thanks Steve --
    Now I understand the problem. I heard this conversation 40 years ago.
    It seems that people are becoming their parents.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Thanks Steve --
      Now I understand the problem. I heard this conversation 40 years ago.
      It seems that people are becoming their parents.
      Not true. I love hard rock and listen to many heavy metal bands, but when
      I listen to something and it literally sounds like 100 jackhammers going at it
      on a brick building, that to me is not even close to music.

      I'm not my parents and never will be.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    That's (black flag) is what you equate with Disturbed, Drowning Pool, Tool, Il Ninio, etc? And you tell me I can't hear?

    Steve - Listen to disturbe again and tell me where once you hear a beat half as fast as some of the stuff that you play.
    Melody? That man has one awesome voice even if you don't like his style and he gets ragey once in a while. Listen to some of their other tunes if you can't hear it in the one I posted. Listen to some of the instrumental - runs, chords, timing, and see if you can copy them -not if you want to, but if you can. If you can't HEAR them, then choose a clean version instead of the live versions - just like people need to do with YOUR music.

    I'm sticking to what I said -- You don't like it, it's noise, and it still sounds like what our parents said about Jethro Tull, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      That's (black flag) is what you equate with Disturbed, Drowning Pool, Tool, Il Ninio, etc? And you tell me I can't hear?

      Steve - Listen to disturbe again and tell me where once you hear a beat half as fast as some of the stuff that you play.
      Melody? That man has one awesome voice even if you don't like his style and he gets ragey once in a while. Listen to some of their other tunes if you can't hear it in the one I posted. Listen to some of the instrumental - runs, chords, timing, and see if you can copy them -not if you want to, but if you can. If you can't HEAR them, then choose a clean version instead of the live versions - just like people need to do with YOUR music.

      I'm sticking to what I said -- You don't like it, it's noise, and it still sounds like what our parents said about Jethro Tull, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin etc.

      Okay, I'm not going to argue the point any further. You attribute it to
      age. I don't. I hated stuff when I was 17. I guess that made me my
      parents at 17. Whatever.

      As for what you posted, I didn't listen to it and wasn't speaking about it
      personally. It may very well be music to me. I will go have a listen. I
      was referring to the stuff they play at my daughter's college, at least
      some of it. Some stuff they play, like Dragonforce, I love. But some of it,
      I have no clue what key, what anything they're playing. If that makes me
      my parents, then I was an old man 34 years old while still in high school.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Okay, I just went to YouTube and typed in Disturbed and picked out a
        song at random...Indestructible.

        This isn't even close to what I call noise. I can even sing this back after
        a few listens. In fact, this song kicks ass. I'm going to go listen to some
        more of their stuff.

        But no, this isn't noise. I wish I could find an example of what I'm talking
        about but I don't know any of the groups WSOU plays that sound like that.

        Oh, by the way, these guys do remind me a little bit of Dragonforce except
        that they have a harder sound that Dragonforce and Dragonforce is more
        about very fast lead guitar work. Of course this is only one song so I don't
        have a body of work to go on.

        But this song...wow...really good.

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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Okay, here is another one I listened to from Disturbed. I'm now getting a feel
          for what they do. Yeah, they're in the same vein as Dragonforce but just a
          little heavier. I wonder if I look them both up if they'll be classified as the
          same sub genre of metal. I think this is called either speed metal or power
          metal. I'm not an expert on splitting musical genres so don't crucify me if
          I have this wrong. But that's my best guess.

          Anyway, here is another tune I really like by them...Inside The Fire

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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Okay, I just went to YouTube and typed in Disturbed and picked out a
          song at random...Indestructible.

          This isn't even close to what I call noise. I can even sing this back after
          a few listens. In fact, this song kicks ass. I'm going to go listen to some
          more of their stuff.

          But no, this isn't noise. I wish I could find an example of what I'm talking
          about but I don't know any of the groups WSOU plays that sound like that.

          But this song...wow...really good.
          Steve -- exactly.
          This is the band that brought me out of the old rock into the new and they did it real strong and real hard. That guy is a fantasy walking - his voice has raw feral power, but he also has enough melody to be hypnontic - they know music, know how to play and their music has depth, variation. These guys knocked me for a loop.

          After I found them I started to love ragey headbanging rock and roll - and most people won't listen long enough to find out how deep it can go and how good it can be. That's why I said what I did -- I just really needed someone to really listen to it - and you "got it". Kudos. Maybe I picked the wrong song, but it's one of my favorites. It's hard to love a type of music and watch people turn away or even insult it without really ever exploring it.

          Some of this stuff can go overboard but there's hacks and geniuses in all fields - trouble with this field is it can get real hard-core and some people just can't listen to it. If someone is screaming rage the whole song and never drops into melody, it's hard to take - even for me. I just seems to kill the effect to over-do it. I know what ones you mean though.

          Me - I can handle anything as long as they hit some melody between the rage. I love a drum and base that I can feel vibrate my whole body. I love lyrics that go deeper than "I wanna hold your hand". I guess Disturbed is my 2000's version of Spirit. But they aren't the only ones - Rob Zombie is awesome, Megadeth, Il Ninio, Drowning Pool.


          Wanna hear another guy with incredible vocals?
          This song was Munchie's favorite - had to play CD's in the MT's where you can't get radio - every time I played it he'd paw the dashboard when it was over until I played it again - and again. I'd finally have to tell him no more and play something else. It's by TOOL - and if you like something a little bit on the metal side without a lot of rage, these are some of the guys that will do it for ya.



          I'm glad you listened Steve. I am glad you can understand and appreciate why I am so captivated, even if it never becomes your favorite variety of rock.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Sal, I am the one that hates it.

    Don't get defensive.

    I'm sorry, hearing the 2nd one, I still say it sounds horrible.

    We can disagree -

    Please don't try to imply it means anything about Hendrix or our parents or anything else.

    It is a matter of personal taste.

    I love punk rock, I love industrial rock, I love most original and hard rock and roll.

    I hate Distrurbed. It is disturbing.

    I dislike heavy metal and hate headbangers. Always have.

    In my opinion I hate this band. I am entitled.

    It's okay. I am sure you don't like all the bands I like.

    You don't need to insult anybody because they don't like your taste in music.

    I am quite sure most people don't like my taste in music either.

    Nothing you can do to shame anybody into changing their opinion.

    P.S. I guess I should keep my opinion to myself though. Sorry.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Sal, I am the one that hates it.

      Don't get defensive.

      I'm sorry, hearing the 2nd one, I still say it sounds horrible.

      We can disagree -

      Please don't try to imply it means anything about Hendrix or our parents or anything else. It is a matter of personal taste.

      I love punk rock, I love industrial rock, I love most original and hard rock and roll.

      I hate Distrurbed.

      It is disturbing.

      I dislike heavy metal and hate headbangers.

      In my opinion I hate this band.

      It's okay. I am sure you don't like all the bands I like.

      You don't need to insult anybody because they don't like your taste in music.

      I am quite sure most people don't like my taste in music either.

      Nothing you can do to shame anybody into changing their opinion.

      See Pat, I actually do not dislike heavy metal and headbangers.

      What I dislike is noise.

      And I guess "noise" is a very subjective thing as each person is going to
      have their own definition.

      One thing I never do is put somebody down for their taste in music. I may
      say it's not my cup of tea and think it's noise, but I won't tell anybody
      that they're a brain dead zombie for liking it.

      Musical taste is completely subjective.

      But as much as you dislike Disturbed, this is NOTHING next to what they
      play at my daughter's college. You have to hear that stuff to believe it.

      Or maybe you're better off not.
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      • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
        BUSH...I have this CD and listened to a million times. It's one of my all time favorites.












        I LOVE THIS KIND OF MUSIC!!!!!!

        KJ
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        What I dislike is noise.

        And I guess "noise" is a very subjective thing as each person is going to
        have their own definition.
        Noise is sound in which you can detect no recognisable pattern.

        The human brain is a pattern-matching machine. Give it something new, and it looks for patterns... and if it doesn't find any, it pulls the "noise" cord and stops looking.

        Once you've seen the pattern in a particular variety of music, you can't un-see it. There's a point where your brain "clicks" with it, and it becomes a recogniseable and predictable form, but until then it's just noise.

        It took a lot of black and death metal before my brain went "oh yeah, there it is!" and I started to actually enjoy it. You need to reach a point where all that growling and screaming starts to sound like intelligible speech.

        I think what happens with most people is they stop listening to new music after a certain age, the music evolves, and they aren't listening... so there's this big quantum leap in musical thought, and they didn't follow along. If you back up and start moving forward one or two years at a time, the pattern doesn't change so much, and you can develop an appreciation for things that seem like noise today.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Sal, I am the one that hates it.

      Don't get defensive.

      I'm sorry, hearing the 2nd one, I still say it sounds horrible.

      We can disagree -

      Please don't try to imply it means anything about Hendrix or our parents or anything else.
      Chill out Pat - all good. If you don't like it fine - but it's not awful. Those guys have talent, you just don't like them and there's a difference between don't like and awful --- it was Steve's comment that set me off - beat too fast, lyrics that type of thing. I knew he'd at least find them interesting if he gave them a shot, but picked the wrong song. Anyhow, like I said, I'm glad I made the "turned into our parents" comment, because a lot of people do just turn off when they hear "heavy metal" "rage rock" anything like that and they never hear the REALLY GOOD ones. The comment was made to make people stop if they didn't really listen before saying "yuck" and at least listen.

      Some are just geniuses..........but they have a hard core very driving sound and if you don't like it there isn't anything that's going to make you like it.

      I introduced my Favorite guys to someone who has enjoyed exploring them and that makes it all good with me whether I bump into him at the next concert or not, ya know?
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Patrician, for whatever it's worth I made a post to your thread, then
    I deleted it. Maybe I thought you wanted people to post music videos
    and not so much interested in posts.

    I came from a musical family and played an instrument for a long time. I
    still have one last instrument that I play once in a while. It's a really nice
    native american flute. Playing it relaxes the hell outta me.

    I just love music but do not have the time to keep current. There's so much
    cool music out there and not enough time in the day for it. My musical
    tastes are all over the place.

    I'm basically a r & r guy, but I imagine there are at least some songs in
    any genre that I like. Sometimes I'll like a song just for the guitar, which is
    what I used to play, or maybe just the melody - and everything else kinda
    sucks but the melody is cool.

    I've been thinking lately that I would really love to get another guitar and
    learn how to play jazz guitar. Good jazz guitar is challenging, to say the
    least, but it's something I'd like to do. There's some jazz guitar that just
    sounds so out-there cool to me I can't describe it.

    So I just wanted to post this and let you know I was not ignoring you or
    your post.

    See ya around.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Tim you're killing me, man. Whoa. That guy knows his stuff. Some of
    it reminded me of back in the late 80's when I used to play with a
    local guy who knew some jazz. He was a heavy metal/speed ripping
    guitarist.

    Thanks so much for the heads up about lessons on YT. I was wondering
    about looking for someone local, but now I don't need to do that. There's
    enough to keep me busy, plus I already know a lot of theory. Just need
    to get a guitar, amp, and blow out the cobwebs. lol.

    I'm listening to Sunny right now. That's what's so cool about jazz. Seems
    you can take anything, just about, and go into orbit with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Glad you liked that Ken. Here's another lesson from a well known jazz guitarist and in a much slower explanation that Pat Martino:

      Here's another performance by John Scofield with the late great bass player Jaco Pastorius:


      Here's a jazz guitarist more obscure but definitely one of my favorites of all time. Maybe only Pat has ever heard of him here on the Warrior forum, but he was doing stuff on guitar 40 something years ago that nobody, I mean nobody, else was.


      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      Tim you're killing me, man. Whoa. That guy knows his stuff. Some of
      it reminded me of back in the late 80's when I used to play with a
      local guy who knew some jazz. He was a heavy metal/speed ripping
      guitarist.

      Thanks so much for the heads up about lessons on YT. I was wondering
      about looking for someone local, but now I don't need to do that. There's
      enough to keep me busy, plus I already know a lot of theory. Just need
      to get a guitar, amp, and blow out the cobwebs. lol.

      I'm listening to Sunny right now. That's what's so cool about jazz. Seems
      you can take anything, just about, and go into orbit with it.
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      • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Glad you liked that Ken. Here's another lesson from a well known jazz guitarist and in a much slower explanation that Pat Martino:

        Here's another performance by John Scofield with the late great bass player Jaco Pastorius:

        Here's a jazz guitarist more obscure but definitely one of my favorites of all time. Maybe only Pat has ever heard of him here on the Warrior forum, but he was doing stuff on guitar 40 something years ago that nobody, I mean nobody, else was.
        Tim, this is all fabulous stuff. I've created a jazz guitar bookmark and saving it. When
        I get a guitar I'll have plenty of material to learn and practice. It'll be great learning
        this stuff so I can have something cool to play.

        When I was younger I had terrible stage fright and basically could not play in front of
        people. But I used to jam with guys I knew and trusted. They understood and were
        cool about it.

        I was acquainted with a guy, in the 80's, who was probably in his 60's and he was a
        jazz bassist. He had white hair and only played the stand-up bass. This guy was from
        another planet. But he was cool, and he always wanted me to jam with him and his
        jazz buddies at local clubs. I was mortified at the prospect of doing that. I always
        told him I didn't know anything about jazz. I never understood why, but he would
        always say it didn't matter. They would teach me while we played. I was a dumbass
        for not doing it. One of those life regret things.

        Thanks for the cool stuff, Tim.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Here, Patrician and everyone else...

    It's time to relax a bit to some Native American flute music.

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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      Here, Patrician and everyone else...

      It's time to relax a bit to some Native American flute music.

      YouTube - Native American Relaxation ~ Flute ~ Pipes
      Flute is a beautiful instrument - they are of the morning, I think. But...
      if you want me to get all Kokopeli over native music.......it's the drums. Holy cow the Utes out in Colorado could really rip up those skins. When the campfires were blaizin' those drums would start in and the dancing would get so intense that it was almost enchantment....of course, we were at 10,000 feet and there wasn't much oxygen, and there were pipes.....
      Ya know, I can't even remember what all of the other instruments they were playing were. All I remember is those wild raging drums. If you don't think instruments can talk - go listen to those drums sometime - those and one other thing.

      They also had an instrument that was kewl to watch - it was like morraco's, don't remember what they are called right now- some sort of thin skin with quartz crystals inside and they would shake those with the drums and the quartz would let off little zaps like lightning and you could see it through the skins, they sounded neat, but it was more awesome to watch them strobe with the drums. Very intense partying - no other form of music could have substituted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Thanks GT - I sure do like Enigma - Not sure if I had this one in there but here is another one:

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Wow Thanks Ken. Good find. I was just thinking to myself how this last Enigma has Indian rhythms which are just great for dancing.

    One of my fantasies is to go and dance with the POW WOW gatherings all over the US. I know I can keep up with them because it just takes the music and I can go into it. There must be a The Great Universal Spirit of Dance and I can tune in.

    My thanks button is off right now but I will catch you later! Anything else you have Indian wise would be most welcome. This is going straight to Bookmarks - Eclectic

    Peter Buffet did a great album that I bought on CD called 'Spirit Dance' that has many tribal songs, and I have tried to find it on Youtube and can't find much - he gets mixed up with the other Buffets including Warren the Millionaire and then the one that is so popular Jimmy I think.

    These are a few of the songs from the album.


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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Patrician,
    You said:"One of my fantasies is to go and dance with the POW WOW gatherings all over the US. "

    Well, I haven't all over the US, but I have danced AT a pow wow with indians while I was a teenager in Oklahoma. Had knee high mocasins on,which at the time, was my everyday shoes.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Patrician,
      You said:"One of my fantasies is to go and dance with the POW WOW gatherings all over the US. "

      Well, I haven't all over the US, but I have danced AT a pow wow with indians while I was a teenager in Oklahoma. Had knee high mocasins on,which at the time, was my everyday shoes.
      Hey Kim... Yes, I had the mid-calf and ankle moccasins and wore them to dust. Then
      I'd get some more.

      I lived in Oklahoma when I was very young, in extreme southwest Oklahoma. In fact,
      my mother is from Ada, and I have relatives in western Oklahoma.

      Where did you live in OK?

      Patrician... Sure, glad you liked the music. We used to attend pow wow's a lot back in
      the day. I remember a big one in DC/Baltimore area in the early 80's. It was really
      cool and met a lot of indians.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Wow Kim. What an honor.

    Yeh, I remember those knee high moccasins - the hippy guys wore them alot in the 60s - they are cool. I had just the ankle high version.

    Dang these threads are addictive. I can't get any work done without coming back here every 10 minutes! LOL. Not to mention watching all the videos on the Youtube page that are related to the songs.

    Anybody need an online video dejay? I could do this all day! Great fun.

    ...oh wait i DO do this all day long...
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Unfortunately this is the best version of this song I could find on youtube:
    King Missle, Detachable Penis
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    And sometimes noise is just noise.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Sal, for what it's worth, I am extremely open minded when it comes to
      music. As a musician, if you're a true musician, you can't be any other way.

      But CD hit the nail on the head.

      When confronted with things we don't recognize, we look for anything with
      which we can grab onto and identify with. If we can't, we can then do two
      things.

      1. Continue to listen until we find something.
      2. Chalk it up as noise.

      I try to do 1 most of the time, but occasionally, I will hear something that
      is so far removed from what I can identify with that it's just not worth
      the effort.

      But it really doesn't have anything to do with age, at least not for me.

      When I was about 21 and heard my first death metal, I turned off the
      station within 5 seconds. There was no way I was going to listen that
      noise coming out of the speakers.

      Actually, as I have gotten older, I have become more open minded having
      gotten more into writing and music appreciation. But there is still stuff that
      you couldn't convince me had any musical value if you put a gun to my
      head.

      One day, I will find one of the tunes that WSOU regularly plays on their
      station, hopefully find it on YouTube, and post it here and you'll hear
      what I'm talking about.

      What boggles my mind is how anybody can scream like that for 4 minutes
      without destroying their vocal cords unless it's all just effects.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        When I was about 21 and heard my first death metal, I turned off the station within 5 seconds. There was no way I was going to listen that noise coming out of the speakers.
        Believe it or not, I felt much the same way at first.

        What boggles my mind is how anybody can scream like that for 4 minutes without destroying their vocal cords unless it's all just effects.
        There are vocal coaches who specialise in the specific techniques of death and black metal - Melissa Cross is the 800-pound gorilla in this space. Don't know if you have any in Jersey, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    All I can say is 'To Each His Own' - 'Judge not Lest Ye Be Judged'

    It is just ironic because I am sure people cannot fathom how someone my age likes loud angry hard core punk - and now I can't understand louder and angrier to the point of feeling I am being assaulted from within my inner ear! LOLOLOLOL To each his own.

    Back to 'OBSCURITY IN NOT BEING MAINSTREAM' I would like to submit this meditation for this beautiful Sunday morning -

    Have a lovely, blessed day, Wonderful Warriors.

    I HAVE GOT TO GET TO WORK - TODAY IS GHOSTWRITER DAY - MUWAHAHAHA.


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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
    Damn, just when I was getting ready to post some KISS disco videos...
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

      Damn, just when I was getting ready to post some KISS disco videos...
      Like this one?

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Coffee Break.

    Wow Tatanka seems to be a little rock and rolly. very infectuous.


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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Andes (Peru)


    Andina (Equador, Bolivia, Peru)


    Bolivia

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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Here ya go Pat.
      I was turned on to Youssou after hearing him preform with Peter Gabriel.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Steve - LMAO, my comment wasn't about age - it was about attitudes, which I see by the fact that you actually went to find out about Disturbed, that I was wrong about - you have to admit though, the comment was a pretty pat answer to rock and roll in the 60's. Ah...BTW.........I believe I am a bit older than you are. I was just pointing out that people heard that same thing about rock when rock first came in - noise.
    As the song says "Rock and roll ain't noise pollution................

    Anyhow - I just got my own education.

    CD - thank you for that enlightening explanation. I always thought people were just being facetious and musically bigoted when they called my favorite stuff - noise, trash, etc. But what you said makes so much sense.

    My main education was linguistics. Well, you know how people make jokes about the Japanese and their confusion of R and L - such the joke goes - what is a woman who has one leg shorter than the other called in the US?; ILENE - what is she called in Japan?; IRENE.
    The fact is that in the Japanese language there is no differentiation between the liquitives R and L -- and they can't HEAR the difference until they are actually TAUGHT to hear it. Once they are taught to hear it, they can hear it even in their own language and it can cause a tad bit of confusion in their first language for them until they get re-used to their own sound.

    So what you said makes so much sense to me. I expect that I will have a bit more patience with those who can't see what I really rock out to as anything other than "noise", too. It always blew me away to hear some band with just incredible genius getting called trash. I always thought of it as a social thing.

    BTW - I liked your Youtube - I could understand a lot of the lyrics, I do prefer more of a mix between melody and rage - but it fit pretty well with the mode of the song so it didn't bug me.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      The fact is that in the Japanese language there is no differentiation between the liquitives R and L -- and they can't HEAR the difference until they are actually TAUGHT to hear it.
      You find the same thing in Russian; there's a single letter which is pronounced (roughly) "shch" - and it's very, very difficult to identify and pronounce this sound at first. Once you learn it, the sound becomes obvious, and you start to understand the frustration of people who say their name is "Sashcha" and someone says "Sasha?" - no, SASHCHA, moron. SASHCHA.

      I'm an amateur linguist by necessity, having moved around a LOT in my childhood. I can't fluently speak anything other than English, but I have a rudimentary understanding of a dozen or so languages. Probably about enough to speak to a two-year-old.

      BTW - I liked your Youtube - I could understand a lot of the lyrics, I do prefer more of a mix between melody and rage - but it fit pretty well with the mode of the song so it didn't bug me.
      Personally, I'm a Cradle of Filth fan more than anything...

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Man, why can't someone just not like something? Why does there have to be all this justification or rationalization making someone wrong or less aware than you, if they don't like something that you like?

    Can't people just have an opinion that is just as valid to them as it is to you seeing it the other way around? It really has absolutely nothing to do with the 60's or anything else about not checking it out or giving it a chance.

    I don't see anything at all new and different about this group - if you are trying to say someone is just old fashioned or can't/won't hear something new. I don't think heavy metal, speed metal, death metal or devil metal is new or in the least innovative. It is just irritating TO ME.

    In any case it is not obscure in the sense of the topic of this thread - meaning different. I think it is real close to mainstream - popular and commercial probably.

    I happen to be someone that has always loved experimental music - and some of it really is noise - like machines, traffic etc - chaos - love it - cacaphony. love it - discord - love it , and loud love it.

    I just don't see how it is 'a social thing' to have an honest opinion or that if you think someone is a genius and I think they are trash that you are somehow necessarily right and I am wrong.

    Like I always say, what Bob says 'you are right from your side and I am right from mine'. I am down with that and it ok with me that you like this group that I hate. I don't think there is something wrong with you because of that - and by the same token I know there is nothing wrong with me.

    sheesh.

    p.s. Munchie had some decent taste in music above - my thank you button never works here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Here would be some innovative, obscure, industrial musicians that probably everybody here hates but me. Doesn't make me like them less - the musicans or the detractors.

    Hope it is not too far out for your taste.

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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Here would be some innovative, obscure, industrial musicians that probably everybody here hates but me. Doesn't make me like them less - the musicans or the detractors.

      Hope it is not too far out for your taste.

      YouTube - Einsturzende Neubauten - Headcleaner
      I could sit through a concert - but I wouldn't buy a CD. Been to a lot of smaller concerts with local bands that do this kind of stuff - you are right - hard core industrial stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    These guys have to invite the Fire Dept to have a concert - at least in San Francisco - you can't really tell how loud they are unless you are there but I will tell you it is ear splitting and harrowing. These are all "home made" robots by Mark Pauline. They build them and wreck them just for the noise and 'effect'. Really exciting and innovative - and truly INDUSTRIAL.


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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    CD - yeah, Japanese was just the most widely recognized example - each language has some. I used to speak restaurant French and German - but that's not my branch of the field - my branch is where cognitive science (hard-wiring), personality, sociology, structure and semantics, come together and form one entity. The source and beginning of abstract thought.

    Craddle of Filth is okay - my style is anything you can really move to. Don't get me wrong - I listen to stuff as mellow as Yanni - but if I am the one playing the music, you can probably bet you'll be dancing around the place at one point or another. I am not a singer, can't play a guitar other than a few scales and chords, and can't cordinate my hands and arms for drums -- I am a dancer and my music is movement.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Santana and everybody else covered Babatunde's song - he was quite the celebrity of the avante garde in California 1960s (RIP)

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    New York 90s (RIP Baba)

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Freakin' Fantastic


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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    More from Freakin' Fantastic! Get up outta yo chair and dance it off!
    When I find something like this it is just such a blessing.

    ...only i will be stuck on this for daze - will lose pounds (it's all good).


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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    This is an ingenius set - some of my top #1 favorite music on the planet. The group is Slainte from the UK but the star is Heath (pipes/fiddle) from Tasmania who is sitting in.


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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    While not abscure, here's a Jeff Beck song with strong middle eastern influences...You don't hear this sound, or beat, very often:


    Another from JB...This one with an eastern european sound:

    Hank Williams song played Zydecho style:

    This song was first recorded in 1930...Before the genre was known as c/w:

    Here's another blue yodel from Jimmy Rodgers:
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    The master musicians next 3 posts

    Ravi Shankar - sitar
    Ali Akbar Khan - sirod
    Ustad Sabri Khan - sarangi


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    Patricia Brucoli
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    African choir:


    Calypso:



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    Patricia Brucoli
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    thanks...

    x.l
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    Patricia Brucoli
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
    Pat...you're on a blues roll this morning...keep'em coming!
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    Patricia Brucoli
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
    One of my favorite Mississippi Hill Country Blues singers..R.L. Burnside...

    And another...Junior Kimbrough.
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    Yeh, Dave - I like Burnside, thanks for the turn on - He rocks - Gotta get some more of that!


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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Here's one of my very favorite songs:



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    Patricia Brucoli
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  • Profile picture of the author sweetfranky
    Probably my favorite band is Massive Attack. Most of you have probably heard them in some movie or another.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Yep - way far, Mark - bookmarked! Thanks for the find!

    PaX
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    In this same vein of innovation and hence unfortunately obscurity:

    The Art of Noise
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    PDQ Bach...Be sure to check out one of the greatest kazoo solos of all time...

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Oh yeh! Got to have more of these guys. Not to be a cynical snot but it is funny thinking of them out in the desert, tents, camels, etc. and AMPS!

    Alright! Music is really the universal language!

    Rock on.

    God Bless Africa!

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    Wow - This guy is fantastic. Hard to follow that act soooo,

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    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    ...and another right turn


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    Patricia Brucoli
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    Looping Back - I just can't get over these guys and discovered another one of their tunes. Just so joyous!

    Nharira-Mbira DzeNharira


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