I am absofrigginlutely friggin sick and friggin tired of free stuff!

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by artwebster

I hate that familiar email subject line - "Thank you Arthur - here's your free download"

Agreed.

When you thank me for my purchase, and I didn't make a purchase, your email does indeed get opened... so I can find out who is buying things with my account!

And yes, I'm relieved to find you're just handing me a pitch. But that's rapidly replaced with "you bastard." It's the email equivalent of yelling "fire!" to make people leave the room; you yelled "fraud!" to make me open your email. You suck and I hate you.

[Gary Mitchell]

Some very emotional responses here. I have to agree to some degree, this free crap is getting out of hand-it's reminds me of graffiti -visual pollution.

We could just hit the spam/phishing button like someone else said or as Ramone Johnny (my favorite comment)

"Let's Blow Something Up!"

perhaps not, but that sums it up.

[Paul Myers]

How many people are using email marketing and not using their subscribers first name? I havn't run into any...

[raises hand]

[MikeAmbrosio]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

[raises hand]

Hmmm - I guess he needs to get on your list then.

He don't know what he's missing!

[Killer Joe]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

[raises hand]

Son of a gun...he's right

Hey Artie, Pauly doesn't use first names...

Dude, you need to get on his list...

KJ

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

[raises hand]

That's good enough for me.

[KimW]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

[raises hand]

I can vouch for that. I'm on Paul's list and never have any emails started with my first name.

[MichaelHiles]

Hey Art, I'd like to invite you to my FREE online class I'm presenting.

It's regularly $15,151,234.26 but I will let you sit in for free. Just click on the link in my sig and opt-in.



Oh, I never use people's first name on my opt-in list either.

I usually just write "Hey everybody" because everybody knows that I am addressing "everybody" because it's a freakin' opt-in list.

[Online Bliss]

Thanks Jeremy,
I almost thought I was on the wrong forum.
The number 1 reason why I come here is to learn.

[artwebster]

Jeremy and Steven

Even the American corruption of the English language has yet to make it possible for anybody to make a negative statement.

I despair of all the rubbish I read about being 'positive' all the time.

It is the fact that I am so positive that enables me to write what I write. I have opinions. Those opinions are not some wishy washy précis of some punked up book designed to make the re-writer wealthy.

I have not survived a life time of cancer by being negative. I do not struggle with my rapidly fading sight by being negative.

I am probably the most positive person you will ever encounter when it comes to attitude. When it comes to the written word I am no more positive or negative than the next person.

The English language does not permit negative statements.

Like so many other xxxxxisms that have been created by this crazy world of 'political correctness' (the ultimate oxymoron), negativism exists only in the mind of the reader. Look to yourselves and wonder why my positive dislikes and positive statements have your knickers in such a twist.

Could it be that, deep down, as marketers, you agree with what I say but feel constrained by the need to abide by the rules of that latest of all religious manifestations, crapology?

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by artwebster

Could it be that, deep down, as marketers, you agree with what I say but feel constrained by the need to abide by the rules of that latest of all religious manifestations, crapology?

lol... I had to laugh at this...



Peace

Jay

[Paul McQuillan]

Originally Posted by artwebster

I am probably the most positive person you will ever encounter when it comes to attitude.

I hope not

Could it be that, deep down, as marketers, you agree with what I say but feel constrained by the need to abide by the rules of that latest of all religious manifestations, crapology?

er sorry Mr Webster, I don't agree. I have none of the issues you have.
I get email from those who's list I join. As soon as it goes down hill I opt
out. No big deal

I usually get addressed by the name I give them. I actually never give a
last name. I leave it as "M"

It would be fun to see "Mr M, you're not going to believe this!"

[MikeAmbrosio]

Originally Posted by artwebster

Could it be that, deep down, as marketers, you agree with what I say but feel constrained by the need to abide by the rules of that latest of all religious manifestations, crapology?

Not even for a second.

Could it be that deep down inside that you agree you come across on this forum as very negative even though you side-step it with sentences like "The English language does not permit negative statements."?

Like it or not, most people will read this as a negative statment:

I am absofrigginlutely friggin sick and friggin tired of free stuff!

[Steven Wagenheim]

You know, there are things I don't like either but I don't come here and
bitch about them, and things a lot more serious than just getting some emails
you don't like.

I'm talking about digital theft, hacking, libel, payment processors that can
shut you down at the blink of an eye for literally no reason at all other than
they think you're a bad risk, and on and on.

But I deal with it. I do what I can to protect myself and I don't spend tons
of negative energy complaining about it, which is what you seem to do
constantly.

Here is the way I look at it Art, and you can take this from somebody who
used to bitch about everything.

You can keep on complaining or you can sit down and think about what
you can do to rectify the problem.

If it can't be rectified, in other words it's something that's literally beyond
your control, then learn to live with it.

You'll live a lot longer if you do.

I can't even begin to tell you how calm and relaxed I finally am these days.
I let NOTHING get to me anymore. If I have a problem, I deal with it. If I
can't fix it, I find a way to make the best out of it.

I have found very few problems that can't be fixed. But the ones that
can't, I just find a way to cope.

Like I said, you'll live a lot longer if you can adopt this philosophy in your
life.

Wishing you nothing but the best.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by HeySal

Actually, it is not an attempt at being too familiar which causes the use of the first name - it is custom. Here in US we don't run via class system at all - yes there are classes, but it is extremely rude over here to notice the difference in class other than in a few settings, such as an elderly person being addressed as Mr. or Mrs. or in business settings. For conversational level social intercourse, first names are the norm, and it is a norm that is rapidly permeating the business world as well. You in countries used to more formal discourse will soon find that first names are becoming norm over there, too - and can look to the Internet and multi-cultural exposure for the cause/blame.

Name has NOTHING to do with class, except in RARE circumstances in foreing countries, and even THAT is nearly GONE! And certain "titles" like mr, ms, mrs, etc... have NOTHING to do with class.

First names ARE the norm for coworkers, friends, relatives, clients, but otherwise, FORGET IT! If a stranger comes up and calls me steve, I start to wonder if they are scamming, etc... I can certainly see arts point. And I DID sign up for lists that were later SOLD, and I get called by some SCAMMER trying to make me believe he is an old friend, etc.... When THEY fail, their EMPLOYEES do it. UNREAL!

And other countries ARE getting less formal, but still, there is a modicum of respect to the way I spoke of here.

Steve

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by seasoned

Name has NOTHING to do with class, except in RARE circumstances in foreing countries, and even THAT is nearly GONE! And certain "titles" like mr, ms, mrs, etc... have NOTHING to do with class.

First names ARE the norm for coworkers, friends, relatives, clients, but otherwise, FORGET IT! If a stranger comes up and calls me steve, I start to wonder if they are scamming, etc... I can certainly see arts point. And I DID sign up for lists that were later SOLD, and I get called by some SCAMMER trying to make me believe he is an old friend, etc.... When THEY fail, their EMPLOYEES do it. UNREAL!

And other countries ARE getting less formal, but still, there is a modicum of respect to the way I spoke of here. In America usage of titles is more a matter of familiar/unfamiliar or polite/familiar.

Steve

Being called by a title in most countries is a matter of socio-economic class - in America the class system isn't the same as most places, Steve -- I thought I pointed that out. Still, children are taught to address adults as Mr., Mrs. etc -- and that is socio-class.

Class is nothing but a categorical division - and we have fewer than many cultures.

[HeySal]

Even the American corruption of the English language has yet to make it possible for anybody to make a negative statement.

You know what I am absofrigginlutely sick of? It's people that keep bashing American English as being a bastardization of a language while it is merely a natural evolution of a demographic split from the mother-tongue users. Take a look at your own language - what would people 300 years ago think of your speech? I can tell you that people in the UK aren't speaking their native tongue either - check out old and middle English and you might have to actually take a course to be able to read it. Languages are not bastardized......they are not static, they are instinctual and the evolution shows the change in the cultures which use them if you care to study it. If you don't you might as well just start harping on the change in culture in general...because one doesn't change without the other - it's not a separate entity.

And what the hell is the crap that we can make no negative statements in English?
How bout this one for a damned good example:
That's the biggest bunch of ****ing Bull Sh** I have ever heard.

I would suggest you enroll in some linguistic classes and learn exactly what language is before weilding pompous attutudes which are totally ungrounded by reality at a people who speak that language. I'm getting tired of Anti-American attitudes being proliferated by a finger pointed at the evolution of a language. Pick a different point for bigotry. That one doesn't hold water.

[Paul Myers]

except in RARE circumstances in foreign countries

Ummm... Steve? To 95% of the world, America is a foreign country.


Paul

[Paul Myers]

Sal,

Art knows exactly what he's saying when he claims it's impossible to make a negative statement in English. It's actually not possible in any spoken language, using the meaning he's using for the word 'negative.'

Unless someone has developed conversational mathematics, that is.

He's distorting the contextual meaning to enable himself to say what he thinks sounds good, which isn't the most useful approach to communication. Nasty semantic process, at best. Disingenuous at worst.


Paul

[Killer Joe]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Ummm... Steve? To 95% of the world, America is a foreign country.

Paul

Hmmm, reminds me of when I lived in Osaka...the imported beers were Budwiser and Coors among others.

Einstein was onto something with that relativity theory of his.

KJ

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by HeySal

You know what I am absofrigginlutely sick of? It's people that keep bashing American English as being a bastardization of a language while it is merely a natural evolution of a demographic split from the mother-tongue users. Take a look at your own language - what would people 300 years ago think of your speech? I can tell you that people in the UK aren't speaking their native tongue either - check out old and middle English and you might have to actually take a course to be able to read it. Languages are not bastardized......they are not static, they are instinctual and the evolution shows the change in the cultures which use them if you care to study it. If you don't you might as well just start harping on the change in culture in general...because one doesn't change without the other - it's not a separate entity.

I've been watching more reality TV from the UK lately, and in some areas I defy someone from elsewhere to identify the language spoken as English. It seems like the accents and idiom change from county to county. Then you do the same with Ireland, Scotland and Wales. In a geographic area smaller than Texas, you'll easily find English speakers who can't even understand each other.

I imagine you could find the same effect if you took a native Texan, someone from Brooklyn, and an inner-city 'gangsta', and asked them to have a conversation.

Which only supports your point...

Sidenote: Anyone who doesn't believe that two positives can ever make a negative has never offered an idea and had the other person roll their eyes and answer, "yeah, right."

[iliveonarainbow]

Ugh, I get so much junky stuff in my email all the time, It's really annoying when I'm just wanting to find something important in my email.

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Sal,

Art knows exactly what he's saying when he claims it's impossible to make a negative statement in English. It's actually not possible in any spoken language, using the meaning he's using for the word 'negative.'

Unless someone has developed conversational mathematics, that is.

He's distorting the contextual meaning to enable himself to say what he thinks sounds good, which isn't the most useful approach to communication. Nasty semantic process, at best. Disingenuous at worst.


Paul

Paul - faulty logical analogy doesn't make a statement correct. Language is an instinctual form of communications. If the semantic import of a statement is negative, the statement is negatively charged. In English, as well as other languages there are even absolute negations which will negatively charge any statement they are used within. Equation of language and mathematics is a logical falacy not much unlike the falacy of equivocation in which one word is taken to have two meanings and the outstanding, or secondary meaning is used to anchor the premise.

Being sinuous and verbose does not make one right.

John - all languages have dialects. That's why a standard for each nation is usually taught in schools. These standards are more descriptive than prescriptive, but they do solve the problem of languages evolving so rapidly that it loses all structure - which it often did before the printing press helped to stabilize things.

I have a tech who lives in the Southern states and often have trouble understanding him on the phone. It doesn't mean he isn't speaking English.

[Paul Myers]

Sal,

faulty logical analogy doesn't make a statement correct.

Art's not using an analogy there. He's using a specialized meaning of the word "negative," which is normally not used in casual conversation.

Equation of language and mathematics is a logical falacy

Huh? Where's the fallacy? Math IS a language.

Anyway, the math reference was mine, and intended more as a joke than to be taken seriously. The usage Art chose isn't precisely mathematical. It has a meaning very close to, "Having total meaning of less than nothing."

Note: Not "useful value" or "effective impact." Actual semantic content. Sort of like having a negative absolute temperature. It's not possible in any spoken language with which I'm familiar, and probably not possible for any language usable by human beings.

Clearly not the usage anyone else in the conversation would be likely to intend. That he knew this is clear from his later use of the word "positive" in reference to attitude.

This isn't really a fallacy of equivocation, because each side's comments are internally consistent in their usage of a chosen definition for the term. This is more like a word game on his part. And not one of the polite ones.


Paul

[HeySal]

No, Math is not language. While it possesses language, it is a quite different entity.
Did you know mathemeticians brains are wired in such a way that normal innate constructs of conversation are often unrecognizable in their speech.

I do know what he meant - but as you pointed out, it was a diversionary tactic and diversionary tactics don't usually stand up to logical argumentation constructs.



Actually my degree is in ethno-linguistics and the absolute negation is quite standard in MOST languages if not all. Negation in linguistics is not the same animal as negation in mathematics, no matter how far someone wants to stretch the word "negation". However after having to listened to enough of this, I'm starting to wonder if maybe a mathematical negation might not just apply to this thread.

[Josh Bartlett]

This is quite possibly the most interesting thread I have read in a while lol

Its funny also how a negative mood can rub off isnt it? Lets all just have a fight, brush ourselves off and start again

Only joking, I love everyone.

I guess you can never please anyone all of the time can you.

For example, I dont stick to first name or calling people Mr/Mrs either.

I usually gage the person individually and adapt to suit the social situation.. (Do most people do this, I think they probably do?)

Also, surely the point here is that he doesnt like unsolicited spam? Saying he doesnt like unsolicited spam which also uses his first name is fair enough but its a bit like saying you dont like being hit over the head with a brick isnt it? (Who does?) Makes you wonder if he changed the main point he was making half way through?

Anyway, id have to say, based on the original posters own statement, I dont know why he got defensive or angry at anything anyone said in this thread... (not possible apparently)

Its not possible they could of been saying anything negative so I wonder what it was about what they said that made him look at it in a neg....

Oh forget it

[Killer Joe]

Originally Posted by HeySal

No, Math is not language.

Sal,

I, 4 1, think that 2.

KJ

[Paul Myers]

Sal,

No, Math is not language. While it possesses language, it is a quite different entity.

'Mathematics' can be used to describe both the discipline and the language. I should think my meaning would have been clear when I mentioned the idea of "conversational mathematics."

From M-W.com:

(2) : a systematic means of communicating ideas or feelings by the use of conventionalized signs, sounds, gestures, or marks having understood meaning

(5) : a formal system of signs and symbols (as FORTRAN or a calculus in logic) including rules for the formation and transformation of admissible expression

Actually my degree is in ethno-linguistics and the absolute negation is quite standard in MOST languages if not all.

You've moved to yet a third specialized definition, one which is familiar to linguists of any stripe, but which has little connection to the other uses that have been discussed so far. It certainly has nothing intrinsically to do with the idea of positive or negative tendencies in attitudes.

'Negation' describes an act, and as such conveys meaning. A statement of negation is, therefore, not negative in the sense of having less than zero meaningful content.

If you wish to prove that my contention is incorrect, you can do so with one simple act: Give me any example of a statement which has less than zero meaningful content.


Paul

[Josh Bartlett]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Give me any example of a statement which has less than zero meaningful content.Paul

"Politicians tell the truth"

"You can get rich without putting any work in with x system"

How about these? They have less than zero meaningful content

[Paul Myers]

Josh,

"Politicians tell the truth"

"You can get rich without putting any work in with x system"

How about these? They have less than zero meaningful content

They have content that many/most would consider inaccurate, but the content exists and has meaning.

So there!


Paul

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

'Negation' describes an act, and as such conveys meaning. A statement of negation is, therefore, not negative in the sense of having less than zero meaningful content.

If there exists a socially accepted definition of a word that would be contextually correct, it is disingenuous to assert that its use is incorrect simply because you would prefer that it have a different definition.

It is likewise disingenuous to claim that only specific definitions out of a specific dictionary are acceptable. You may think "PPC" means "Pay Per Click," but you won't find that definition in Webster's dictionary, and you're also not going to get much of anywhere telling me that my Battletech 70-ton Warhammer is obviously equipped with dual AdSense blocks - "PPC," in that context, means "Particle Projection Cannon." You're not finding that in Webster's, either. You might not understand it, but that doesn't make it wrong.

[Paul Myers]

CD,

If there exists a socially accepted definition of a word that would be contextually correct, it is disingenuous to assert that its use is incorrect simply because you would prefer that it have a different definition.

The only objection I have to specific usage in this thread is Art's switch from the original to an alternative usage in order to say something that was technically correct, but made no sense in the original context.

I did point out that his statement, while seemingly game-playing, was accurate for one specialized usage of the word. Sal then disagreed with me, based on a different usage, more likely from an understanding learned in her training than from any active motive.

It is likewise disingenuous to claim that only specific definitions out of a specific dictionary are acceptable.

I made no such claim. I merely pointed to 2 alternate entries for the word 'language,' to show that mathematics does, in fact, hold that status by some accepted definitions. There was no exclusion of any kind in that reference.

In fact, I agreed with the validity of every definition of the word "negative" that was used in this thread, and just pointed out that the changes in usage made for challenges based on the changing context.

Continuing to assert that "it's impossible for a statement to have less than zero meaning" is a separate thing from the matter of 'correctness.'


Paul

[Steven Wagenheim]

Okay, many people here are getting into technical semantics of whether or
not there is such a thing as a negative statement.

To me, IMO, this is all a bunch of hogwash.

To the common uneducated layman (at least as far as this malarkey goes)
a negative statement is the following:

McDonald's hamburgers stink
All politicians are crooks
All Internet marketers are liars
I hate getting tons of email
I hate when it rains

I could keep going, but I think you get the point. And without using the
words positive or negative in my layman's definition, here is how I simply
define a negative statement.

"A statement that shows dislike for something or someone."

I think that's how the typical unsophisticated, plain old Joe in the street
defines a negative statement.

In other words, I know it when I hear it.

So you can take all the philosophizing and technicalities and other mumbo
jumbo and toss it in the trash as far as I'm concerned.

If somebody walks up to me and says...

"I think your haircut is ugly as sin"

That is NOT a positive statement.

If, however, they came up to me and said something like...

"You know, I know a way that you can really get your hair to look fantastic"

THAT is a positive statement.

Their meaning may essentially be the same (my haircut sucks) but they've
said it in such a way that it comes out positive and doesn't make me feel
as crappy.

Again, you can use all the definitions you want. But I'm just a plain Joe. I
know a negative statement when I hear it.

And Art's OP was full of 'em.

[artwebster]

Absolutely fascinating.

The ideas that this thread has thrown up are quite striking and it is amusing to see the way the human mind can work to try to support a stance.

I am sick and tired of people who don't know me, who don't have permision to email me, to whose lists I have not subscribed sending me emails implying that I have.

My amusement at the argument about negative statements was so great that I went blind for about two hours and had to come back to it.

It's a bit like a situation where someone walking into an ever deeper layer of quicksand could convince himeself by his 'positive' attitude that the quicksand will become less deep and. as he finally sucumbed to the lack of air as his nostrils went under the surface saying "Well, that's a little more space in the world now that I am no longer in it."

Still, if marketers find that it makes them uncomfortable to have someone around them who is able to see the world as it is and not as they would like it to be they are worthy of my sympathy and deserve all that might transpire as the become tainted with the same reputation so many wannabe marketers are so busily creating for them.

Closing your eyes only stops you seeing - it does not make anything go away.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by artwebster

Absolutely fascinating.

The ideas that this thread has thrown up are quite striking and it is amusing to see the way the human mind can work to try to support a stance.

I am sick and tired of people who don't know me, who don't have permision to email me, to whose lists I have not subscribed sending me emails implying that I have.

My amusement at the argument about negative statements was so great that I went blind for about two hours and had to come back to it.

It's a bit like a situation where someone walking into an ever deeper layer of quicksand could convince himeself by his 'positive' attitude that the quicksand will become less deep and. as he finally sucumbed to the lack of air as his nostrils went under the surface saying "Well, that's a little more space in the world now that I am no longer in it."

Still, if marketers find that it makes them uncomfortable to have someone around them who is able to see the world as it is and not as they would like it to be they are worthy of my sympathy and deserve all that might transpire as the become tainted with the same reputation so many wannabe marketers are so busily creating for them.

Closing your eyes only stops you seeing - it does not make anything go away.

Art, you're missing the whole point and sadly there is nothing I can do
about that.

I am not burying my head in the sand and closing my eyes. I know there
is a ton of crap in the world. I am bombarded with it everyday. I just
choose not to dwell on it. I don't make every thread I start about how
I hate this or hate that, which is what you seem to do more often than
not.

If you think I am wrong, go back and read the majority of the threads
you've started. I don't remember the last time you had anything nice to
say.

I for one don't want to live like that.

If you do, so be it.

I'm obviously never going to change your disposition.

[artwebster]

To the common uneducated layman (at least as far as this malarkey goes)
a negative statement is the following:

McDonald's hamburgers stink
All politicians are crooks
All Internet marketers are liars
I hate getting tons of email
I hate when it rains

How very patronising!
Each of these statements makes a positive point - even if inaccurate in a couple of cases.

I believe that the 'common uneducated layman' is not nearly as stupid as you imply. Does the fact that I love when it rains (all eight or ten days of it) make my love of rain any more positive than the hate that someone else who is exposed to more rain feel? I don't think so.

What is it that makes you so fearful about facing reality? Is it really so psychologically damaging to you if you should over hear some one saying something that you perceive as negative?

There again, we all know the one about the eye of the beholder - maybe it works for the ear as well.

[artwebster]

If you think I am wrong, go back and read the majority of the threads
you've started. I don't remember the last time you had anything nice to
say

Is having something nice to say more important than making a point to highlight a mistake that many new marketers are making?

If the whole world went around feeling that nothing was wrong, nothing would ever be put right:

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by artwebster

If you think I am wrong, go back and read the majority of the threads
you've started. I don't remember the last time you had anything nice to
say

Is having something nice to say more important than making a point to highlight a mistake that many new marketers are making?

If the whole world went around feeling that nothing was wrong, nothing would ever be put right:

Art, I'm going to make this short and to the point.

I am done arguing with you.

And you can take that as positive, negative or any old way you like.

[artwebster]

HeySal
That's the biggest bunch of ****ing Bull Sh** I have ever heard - is about as positive as it comes.

Steven
Arguing? Who's arguing? I'm simply stating my point of view. As with all points of view, it is almost impossible to have people with identical ones. If you find stating and discussing alternative views is an argument I feel sorry for you.

If nobody points out the faults because everybody is so 'positive', how does anything ever get fixed?

As I say, you might not like what I say, but I believe it. My belief will not be changed by recrimination and resignation. A proper, qualified argument might - but they seem to be in short supply. Maybe you and the rest are not quite positive enough to overcome my level of positive charge?

[Bev Clement]

So you are positive about everything, postive there is nothing wrong with the positive way you post and positive that the rest of us don't have a clue about anything because we can see the difference between positive and negative.

I'm positive that you are the most negative person around.

So being sick and tired of everything and everybody is the way to be positive.

I wonder if you walk around saying I don't have cancer or am going blind, because I am positive it isn't going to happen.

[JayXtreme]

Art,

You make me laugh...

Thank you.

If I was living close to you, I'd be worried about safety... but you're far enough away for me to enjoy it...

Peace

Jay

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by artwebster

If nobody points out the faults because everybody is so 'positive', how does anything ever get fixed?

If everybody goes around complaining about what's broken, who's going to fix it?

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

If everybody goes around complaining about what's broken, who's going to fix it?

Excellent point CD.

I prefer fixing rather than complaining.

[MikeAmbrosio]

Originally Posted by artwebster

Still, if marketers find that it makes them uncomfortable to have someone around them who is able to see the world as it is and not as they would like it to be they are worthy of my sympathy and deserve all that might transpire as the become tainted with the same reputation so many wannabe marketers are so busily creating for them.

Art,

Sorry, but you don't see the world as it is...

You see it as YOU see it.

I know this is true because I don't agree with all of your sentiments.

To repeat your statement (sort of), you don't know me, therefore you have no clue how I see the world.

Paul, Sal...

Put the darn schoolbooks away! Schools out!

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I prefer fixing rather than complaining.

Sometimes I complain to see whether something is worth fixing.

If you complain about something and people look at you funny, it's probably not worth your time.

But if you complain and a bunch of people go "yeah, WTF is up with that?!" - well, you can probably sell them a solution.

[artwebster]

I prefer fixing rather than complaining.
That is interesting. How do you know it needs fixing? If it is negative to say that something is not right, how much more negative is it to say that something needs your intervention to be put right?

You see it as YOU see it.
This is really stating the bleedin' obvious. How else would I see it?

But if you complain and a bunch of people go "yeah, WTF is up with that?!" - well, you can probably sell them a solution.
You can only do that if they are not so anal as to insist that a comment is 'negative' no matter what the intent.

I wonder if you walk around saying I don't have cancer or am going blind, because I am positive it isn't going to happen.
This comment sums up the rabid and insane (if incoherent) desire to justify an attitude regardless of the degree of contempt that the words convey.

No, Bev, I do not go around saying I don't have cancer - what I do is control by will power the pain that I suffer 24/7/365 so that I do not have to resort to opiates (like an alcoholic, opiate adicts can find that the full rage of adiction can be started again by a single slip). I do not kid myself that some belief in the positive fairy is going to prevent the loss of my sight. I am hopeful that it will not happen but, I suppose, in the parlance of internet marketers, that is being negative.

Thank you, any way, for giving me the one response that, above all others, illustrates the crass nature of the internet marketing mind. Very enlightening.

[ZigZag]

C'mon Art old chap, life's too short to be annoyed by simple things like e-mail messages. Use that passion to do something constructive.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Sometimes I complain to see whether something is worth fixing.

If you complain about something and people look at you funny, it's probably not worth your time.

But if you complain and a bunch of people go "yeah, WTF is up with that?!" - well, you can probably sell them a solution.

Excellent point and very clever.

I guess I should try complaining once in a while.

But what to complain about?

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

But what to complain about?

I'm sure Art can help you out on this one, Steve

He could find something wrong with the beautiful summer sunrise if he felt like it...

Peace

Jay

[artwebster]

Hi, Jay,

He could find something wrong with the beautiful summer sunrise if he felt like it...

You are damned right I could! My facility with the English language and mental agility allow me to argue any point from either side.

It is foolish, though, to think that because I could, I would.

I still get those friggin' emails but I have noticed a distinct drop in the numbers - should I conclude that the ones that have stopped coming were from warriors? Looking at some of the ways conclusions have been drawn in this stream I guess I would be justified.