Buying gold

16 years ago

Buying bullion is a very good idea!

You could try these forums:

Gold & Silver Forum

USA Gold Discussion Forum - gold blog

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Paul1234

16 years ago

Here's another one.

Buy Gold Bullion Today ▷ Buy Gold Online At Live Spot Gold Prices - BullionVault.com

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zenmn

16 years ago

If you follow gold you need to be reading the Jim Sinclair site. He has some tips too for how to spread out your investments including gold. I understand that you can take delivery anytime on the ETFs... symbol GLD I believe. I have traded it myself---done more of the silver SLV though. Kitco is a very reputable place to buy and also research/ask questions. Hope that helps.
-zenmn

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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

I wouldn't want an ETF. The point is to have the physical gold if times get bad, not trade one paper for another.

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zenmn 16 years ago

"Taking delivery" is physical possesion. Stay away from bars and stick to more portable and known like kruggerands. Thats my 2 cents. Good luck!
-zenmn
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Wakunahum

16 years ago

You know you can spread around your money so it's all insured.

Talk to someone at the bank to get more info on this but certain types of accounts can be $100,000 insured per person on the account. Plus you can just open accounts at another bank as well.

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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Wakunahum

You know you can spread around your money so it's all insured.

Talk to someone at the bank to get more info on this but certain types of accounts can be $100,000 insured per person on the account. Plus you can just open accounts at another bank as well.

Yeah, but it'll still be worthless if the value of the dollar is debased to fund a mortgage debt trust, or the economy gets worse. I want at least some of my savings to be in something physical to hold that value I've earned.

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myob

16 years ago

Gold is near its all-time high right now ($871.80) Sure way of losing money. You can spread your risk by opening another account at your bank. The $100,000 insured is per account not per customer.

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KimW

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

Gold is near its all-time high right now ($871.80) Sure way of losing money. You can spread your risk by opening another account at your bank. The $100,000 insured is per account not per customer.

This is true.It is too late to make it worthwhile to buy gold.

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myob 16 years ago

I'm betting as soon as the bailout bill passes, the price of gold will drop sharply. Shorting sales in gold mining stocks.
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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

Part of the reason the gold rises in USD is that the dollar is worth less. This isn't an investment, it's a hedge against the US dollar falling. Spreading US dollars around different banks won't help if the purchasing power of that money falls.

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myob 16 years ago

My view of the economy was a little misplaced in your question it seems. I do a lot of investing, not hedging, in the stock markets. Many of the stocks with historically high prices are undervalued bargains right now, as is real estate. I just don't believe gold is a good hedge, because the price has already been driven so high by other hedgers.
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Kenster

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Grossman

Part of the reason the gold rises in USD is that the dollar is worth less. This isn't an investment, it's a hedge against the US dollar falling. Spreading US dollars around different banks won't help if the purchasing power of that money falls.

Gold is great hedge and is used frequently as such, but it can also be an investment. I come from the hedge fund world and you wouldnt believe the amount of trading gold their is both both bulls and bears.

Think for a moment about the deficit our country is in and knowing this, it continues to get worse. How are we ever going to pay back the trillions we owe to ourselves and more importantly other countries...artificially hyper-inflate our currency, pay back our debt, return back to normal.

May be simplified picture but the idea is that our country has no choice but to hyperinflate, which is where your gold becomes an investment, not just a hedge.

not necessarily my opinion though

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Dan Grossman 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kenster

May be simplified picture but the idea is that our country has no choice but to hyperinflate, which is where your gold becomes an investment, not just a hedge.

If the only reason gold has gone up in value is because of inflation, then it's not an investment, it's still just a hedge. The gold would buy you the same quantity of bread, the same size house, as everything else would have increased in cost as well. You'd only have maintained your buying power (whereas those with only cash lost buying power because their cash buys less now), not increased it.
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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

Is there somewhere better to put the money? Other than stocks and real estate... I still have a few long term stock investments I will hold during this instability, but I'm not looking to make any new bets on anything domestic going up in value right now...

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Zach Booker

16 years ago

Buy silver, it will double in the next 2 years if not more.
90% of the worlds silver is used and only 10% left.
Where as 95% of the worlds gold is still here and only 5% used

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Wendy Woudstra 16 years ago

I have been trying to buy up some silver recently because the price has been so enticing.

Interesting thing, while silver prices have been nice and low it's been nearly impossible to get silver coins from the usual places. Kitco isn't even listing silver eagles or silver maples on their site right now because they can't get them from the mints that supply them.

Wendy
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BizWebMan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Zach Booker

Buy silver, it will double in the next 2 years if not more.
90% of the worlds silver is used and only 10% left.
Where as 95% of the worlds gold is still here and only 5% used

Zachs comments are spot on. Silver has a long way to go and so often overlooked. It is worth checking out what the Chinese are suggesting to their citizens? invest in gold and silver. Who are the next big users of electrical commodities? China and India and all those motors, electrical parts etc all need silver to help manufacture.

It makes you wonder if the world resources will keep up.

The only way I see silver heading is up. Oh and a very canny investor friend of mine told me to own what I buy i.e have the physical stock in your possession not on paper.

Grahame

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Dan Grossman

15 years ago

Originally Posted by gonzo

It makes you wonder if the world resources will keep up.

The only way I see silver heading is up.

Basic economic history says this is the wrong analysis.

Originally Posted by Chris Anderson in "Free"

In September 1980, Paul Ehrlich, a population biologist, and Julian Simon, an economist, made a wager, publicly recorded in the pages of Social Science Quarterly, over the future price of some core commodities.

Simon made a public offer to stake $10,000 on his belief that the cost of non-government controlled raw materials (including grain and oil) will not rise in the long run. Ehrlich took the bet, and they designated September 29, 1990, ten years hence, as the payoff date. If the inflation adjusted prices of various metals rose over that period, Simon would pay Ehrlich the combined difference; if the prices fell, Ehrlich would pay Simon.

Ehrlich chose five metals: copper, chrome, nickel, tin, and tungsten.

Wired's Ed Regis reported on the results: Between 1980 and 1990, the world's population grew by more than 800 million, the largest increase in one decade in all of history. But by September 1990, without a single exception, the price of each of Ehrlich's selected metals had fallen, and in some cases had dropped through the floor. Chrome, which had sold for $3.90 a pound in 1980, was down to $3.70 in 1990. Tin, which was $8.72 a pound in 1980, was down to $3.88 a decade later.

Why did Simon win the bet? Partly because he was a good economist and understood the substitution effect: If a resource becomes too scarce and expensive, it provides an incentive to look for an abundant replacement, which shifts demand away from the scarce resource (witness the current race to find replacements for oil). Simon believed--rightly so--that human ingenuity and the learning curve of science and technology would tend to create new resources faster than we used them.

The only major exception to the rule is gold, because people still give special value to it similar to currency, rather than treat it as solely a commodity for industry.

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Ephrils

16 years ago

I wish I had some money to put into gold. I'm not near as fortunate as the OP, but if you can. Do it.

Gold is backed by... gold. And yeah, having it in hand is better than digitally stored somewhere.

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HeySal 16 years ago

Why would anyone pay for gold when it is lying around the mountains and streams for the taking - just the price of a few pieces of equipment to get it.
Tsk. I must be excessively old fashioned.
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Sal
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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

That's a silly response. Why would anyone pay for food when it's just lying around in fields for the taking? We don't all have time to be farmers, let alone fly up to a remote stream in Alaska to spend the days panning for tiny pieces of gold.

Precious metals have been stores of value for thousands of years. This is about hedging against US currency inflation for a couple years, not swimming in a sea of gold coins because I dream of being Scrooge McDuck.

And to the guy who said gold was too high... if the US dollar loses 50% of its buying power because the economy collapses, that gold will still be worth way more than the dollar when the gold is sold again. And if you adjust the value of gold now for inflation, it's not very high at all. The buying power of an ounce of gold is less now than it was in 1980... the US dollar has lost buying power far faster than gold has risen in US dollar price.

This clearly wasn't the right forum to ask for financial advice.

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myob 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Grossman

This clearly wasn't the right forum to ask for financial advice.

It never has been, and it never will be.
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HeySal

16 years ago

LOL -- It was meant to be silly! Just having some fun. This is the OT forum, isn't it? And I do prospect in a hobby capacity. Chill out.

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Sal
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myob

16 years ago

A guy walks into a bar, asks for advice on gold futures ...
Don't be so silly. Can't you see the guy is dead serious? Here is some financial advice on gold:
Gold Coins

Or go here to hunt for it:
Gold Fever Prospecting - Mining Equipment, Gold Panning Paydirt & Nuggets

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HeySal

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

A guy walks into a bar, asks for advice on gold futures ...
Don't be so silly. Can't you see the guy is dead serious? Here is some financial advice on gold:
Gold Coins

Or go here to hunt for it:
Gold Fever Prospecting - Mining Equipment, Gold Panning Paydirt & Nuggets

HEY! If you are going to send people to buy gold prospecting equipment - keep it in the family and send them to MY SITE. Geesh. Thanks a lot Warrior

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Sal
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myob 16 years ago

Oops! Sorry. Doesn't look like you had a prospect anyway. The lazy bum just wanted American Gold Eagles and Canadian Silver Maple Leafs ready made.
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- Dean Shainin 16 years ago
  
  This fella has lots of info in regards to gold and silver and keeps his site updated often.
  
  He writes in an interesting and some times funny way to convey what's going on at times.
  Silver and Gold Prices: The Silver Price has Turned Back Up, and Must be Bought - It Rose 7.8% Today
  
  If the dollar can stay above 76.00 we should be alright for a while as far as the dollar goes but it sure is getting close today at 76.29. If it goes under 76.00 for more than a couple days it might get interesting. This in NOT a good time for the dollar to tank from my point of view. Time will only tell what's going to happen now. Trying to think positive with all the changes going on with Wall Street and the good ol $700 Billion bail out plan.. Getting tougher by the day to think positive as far as the all the changes going on...
  
  Cheers,
  Dean
  
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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

Bought a couple American Gold Eagles and Canadian Silver Maple Leafs to start.

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HeySal

16 years ago

Dean - in my sig click "get a life" - go to main menu - click "GOLD" - (or "shopping" if you are ready to buy equipment)- we have an info directory - daily price index, and lots o' equipment and maps. Did you think I was kidding when I said I like to hunt it myself? The metals you bring home from the wilds is the most profitable by far. Ya Just have to learn how to get it -- and I have a series going on that one. Wanna know about gold pans? Comin' up in a day or two.

As far as buying it - pick a place. NOTE- it ain't legal to own bars of the stuff - but high assay ore can still be traded in or stockpiled. Coins are also legal - if you have the right metal detector you can make a high% on anything you find, but the gov or an Ed Institution will take it - they will give you high dollar for the find, though. If it's older than 50 years either it's your grandfather's or you found it on your own property, plain and simple.

See - even metals aren't completely safe when you are in physical ownership because all you have to do is get into a small tussle with the police (argue a traffic ticket with the cops lately?) and they will confiscate it - and most times you don't get it back once proved innocent. So if you get that ticket and get tased and they say you came after them, pray someone had a camera or your gold stash is history. Serious here - not kidding around this time. 200 laws on the books now that allow TPTB to confiscate everything you own - crime committed or not. 500 to 1000 years from now people are going to be finding our stashes with their tri-corders.

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Sal
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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

Originally Posted by heysal

NOTE- it ain't legal to own bars of the stuff

I bought two books on buying gold and silver, and both said buying bullion, including bar form, was perfectly legal... and all the U.S.-based bullion suppliers online have both bars and coins.

Gold bars are the perfect purchase for gifts or personal investment portfolios.

http://www.apmex.com/Category/9/Gold...gm___kilo.aspx
http://www.bulliondirect.com/catalog...(1.00_oz).html

Even Goldline, the company that runs those late night infomercials on cable TV where they offer to send you a gold investing kit, sells bars.

In total I ordered 3 gold coins, 25 silver coins, and a bar of silver. I'll be selling off some of my stocks as soon as there's a day of upturn, if that ever happens again, and moving that money to physical commodities as well.

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HeySal

16 years ago

FDR made it illegal for a person in the US to own more than 100 USD worth of gold in 1933 (Executive order 6012). People had to turn in their gold and accept paper money for it. This was done because of all the people who were not trusting the economy and turning their paper money in for gold (sound familiar here yet?). Gerald Ford lifted the ban in 1974 - 41 years later so, yes, we can now own gold, buy it, trade it, etc. However - understand that the Gold Clause Resolution is still around - and all it would take is reactivation of an existing resolution to put it back into effect. While metals are the best investment - would Bushco decide to reactivate the Gold Clause Resolution if there is a run on gold again? Can we feel safe about our gold while Bush and Paulson are foaming at the mouth to take all we have to bail their Corporate pals out for getting greedy and messing up? Do not mistake that it is legal now for them to raid and search your home with no warrant. Where will your gold be found?

Very touchy situation we have going here, folks.

Just something to think about.

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Sal
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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

I heard only 30% of gold held privately in 1933 was actually turned in; most of the other 70% turned up slowly after the ban was lifted 40 years later. Forget where I read that though.

Buy Gold Bullion Today ▷ Buy Gold Online At Live Spot Gold Prices - BullionVault.com

They'll store the gold in a vault of your choice at 3 countries.

I'll just be hiding mine. Only so much ya can do.

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HeySal 16 years ago

Of course people didn't turn it all in, Dan, LOL - they didn't have the means to find gold you chose to stash back then - now they have atomic signaturing - and I know about that because I know the guy that invented it. LOL.

There were a lot of nice juicy items that people kept stashed in private collections - some of which you can purchase today - spendy though - like $20 gold pieces of nice vintage dates and of rarities which make them worth more than the gold itself.

Got to remember, too, that a lot of people buried stashes back then (my grandfather did). And some of those people ended up dying before anyone found out about those stashes. You don't have to go after sunken boats full of coinage to find some pretty impressive stashes. I'm betting that there are quite a few homes dating from the 30's that still have coinage in the house or yard hidden somewhere. People find these things pretty frequently thanks to modern equipment.

Now - lets take a flight of fancy and imagine that it has become illegal to own Gold again. Paulson has gotten his way and bailed out foreign banks so they now have to turn over gold in exchange for the Central Bank monopoly money so your gold just isn't safe in the vaults even at the corners of the earth any more. The militia police are searching homes with atomic signaturing machines so that people can't just not turn their stashes in this time around. They can't hide them in their homes or bury them in their yards. Most people have GPS on them at all times - in cars, cell phones, IPODS, etc so their movements can be traced without a sweat.

Let's assume you have a decent portion of gold and a decent ability to invest while we are dreaming.

1) Where and how would you hide your gold?
2) What other commodity would you feel safer well invested into - and why?
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Sal
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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

Not that bad. If the dollar drops so far in value that there's a run on banks and gold windows and the government has to outlaw gold again, gold will be worth way more than it is now in dollar terms and the wealth of the nation will already be effectively transferred to those who have gold from those who don't. Unless the entire global economy drops just as badly and just as fast, that's guaranteed.

So like in the 30s, sell it to the government like they require, and immediately spend that money on tangible assets, like loads of real estate, or exchange it for other currency if anyone's taking USD still. Then if things ever get better, you'll have the assets to sell for money or local currency, whichever it is at that point.

You don't need to hide it from the government, other than the scary police confiscation stuff... they didn't just take everyone's gold and give them nothing when the gold window closed, they forced you to exchange it for dollars.

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HeySal 16 years ago

You are completely right - but not very imaginative.

I was looking for something a bit more fun - and with some imagination involved such as.............

I would invest in land and turn it into a graveyard - charge people for burying their dead (which, of course, will be a practiced continued for a time yet until we are genetically altered and don't die). The gold could be hidden in fake graves - or just above vaults. Still detectable - but who'd think to look?
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Sal
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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

Soooo... yesterday the US Mint ran out of and stopped selling its 24-karat gold buffalo coins.

APMEX is out of 32 of its top 40 products... APMEX Top 40.

WAMU collapsed in a blink, not because of its bad assets, but because its account holders withdrew $16 billion in just 10 days.

Looks like a run on the banks and the gold suppliers to me...

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VegasVince 16 years ago

I personally deal with one ounce rounds like the Canadian Maple Leaf....or American Eagles...and gold is golden...because it's always liquid on a global level. I also invest heavily in junk silver coins......and am one of the few people who love Palladium......once it gets down to this price level...because I've never failed not to turn a profit with the metal no one seems to ever talk about or understand.

One of the best little known ways to make easy cash....and I've been doing it for the past 5 years...is the buying and selling of scrap gold. I like working the small towns....with classifed ads and then word of mouth.

The key is dealing with the right refiner.....who buys your scrap for more then what you paid....who locks in your price....and gives you a fair price per gram quote.

Once you punch in the spot price of gold....the kt of gold you have..and the gram weight....you can easily figure out what to purchase scrap for..and if you pay a buck or two more then the TV companies and local pawnshops...you have plenty of business.

And to be honest, there's no way you can lose money....unless you buy bogus gold....fools gold..in which case you'se a fool to begin with.

If any warriors want the name of the two refiners I've used over the years who pay well for scrap gold....pm me. They are honest, legit, and have been around forever. And they pay a hell of a lot more money then those cable tv companies advertising to the suckers.

xxx Vegas Vince
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myob

16 years ago

I much prefer gold mining stocks, rather than shlepping all that weight around. Most gold mining companies will be doing very well as gold prices keep hitting new highs. My favorite is Newmont Mining, a global mining company since 1921. The stock price is relatively stable and pays good dividends. Trading symbol is NEM.

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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

I much prefer gold mining stocks, rather than shlepping all that weight around. Most gold mining companies will be doing very well as gold prices keep hitting new highs. My favorite is Newmont Mining, a global mining company since 1921. The stock price is relatively stable and pays good dividends. Trading symbol is NEM.

What do you do with stocks when the exchanges close down (like after 9/11)? You can't buy food with a screenshot of an ownership share of some company. You can schlep your gold with ya into a more stable country. A pound or two of gold with ya and you can go without a job for a year at least.

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myob 16 years ago

The stocks soared during the years following 9/11, and many people made fortunes in the stock market including myself. My bets are for a bright future, and right now I am buying as many stocks and as much real estate as I can afford. My credit union is isolated from the banking crisis because they are very selective about giving loans, and has a capitalization of $3.1billion.

I just hate to have to carry around gold. That is so ... middle ages.
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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

Someone shared this with me today on another forum... shows exactly what happened after the US dollar was decoupled from the gold standard in 71... hidden taxation through inflation.

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myob 16 years ago

The stock market has risen by 100 times its 1945 value in current dollars. And it doesn't weigh as much. Don't be so medieval.
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- Dean Shainin 16 years ago
  
  I'm starting to listen to this Peter dude for at least the next few months just in case... He's been spot on for a couple years now even though not many want to listen...
  
  YouTube - Peter Schiff - Bloomberg 9/22/2008
  
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  HeySal 16 years ago
  
  and am one of the few people who love Palladium.
  
  Gold isn't the only metal of value. MollyB is used in solar energy - and that market is going to swing pretty soon. Lithium, I think, will be climbing soon, too.
  
  I dunno though Vince -there's no substitute for platinum in my book - but I'm a female and you know how we feel about metal.
  
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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

I've read his book, Crash Proof, and recommend it if you want some more history to the current economic situation. Just like he says, his book is over a year old but accurately predicts exactly what's going on now.

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Henry Artz

16 years ago

Gold is the best place when the economy is uncertain. It does more liquid too you can sell and buy it easier compared to other precious metals. Buying gold bars or coins is better than buying it in the form of jewellery because it's cheaper and easier to sell. When you buy them you should ask for the certificates.

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djarchi

16 years ago

You can also try this forum USA Gold Discussion Forum - gold blog

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Dan Grossman

16 years ago

Gold was higher two months ago than it is today, it's not been driven up due to what's going on now.

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myob 16 years ago

If you compare historical price charts with the price of gold and most other precious commodities, you will find an almost immediate reaction to major events. That's just how I bet in the stock market every day. Been beating the odds for over 17 years, and got caught only twice off guard - 9/11/2001 and 9/29/2008.
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BenjaminGates

15 years ago

It is a really good idea to buy gold during bad economic times. Especially with dollar declining, gold is the only safe haven. Of course even silver too. You can try your hand with silver as well.
Best place to buy gold is from Banks. You can safely return later.

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zankee

15 years ago

Hi

I am an accountant a certified financial planner (non practicing, cos of all the bs in the industry) I started punting gold over 3 years ago to all my clients,this was about the time of the upturn of the market and all the rage was aggressive buying of shares. Gold has an inverse reaction to the market, in a downturn gold rises and visa versa. I would suggest the gold price is too high at the moment. I would look more for value in other areas. You may think i'm nuts but property is the place to go looking now you'll pick up some amazing bargains if you know where to look and how to measure your IRR. If you know how to measure your IRR (internal rate of return) send me a mail if you want a good resource on this

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Mike Wright

15 years ago

Originally Posted by zankee

Hi

I am an accountant a certified financial planner (non practicing, cos of all the bs in the industry) I started punting gold over 3 years ago to all my clients,this was about the time of the upturn of the market and all the rage was aggressive buying of shares. Gold has an inverse reaction to the market, in a downturn gold rises and visa versa. I would suggest the gold price is too high at the moment. I would look more for value in other areas. You may think i'm nuts but property is the place to go looking now you'll pick up some amazing bargains if you know where to look and how to measure your IRR. If you know how to measure your IRR (internal rate of return) send me a mail if you want a good resource on this

Well in the UK, cash buyers can pickup some great property bargains
at low prices in auctions. Maybe also some green/alternative energy
stocks. With a move to nuclear energy, maybe uranium and other
strategic commodities and metals like titanium, palladium and neodymium?

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seasoned

15 years ago

The FDIC insurance was increased to $250K, at least until 12/31/2009.

Gold IS at a HIGH now, approx $972 now. It is really NOT an investment, but an inflation hedge. One the US has been trying to GET RID OF!!!!!!

It WAS made illegal in 1933! It wasn't until 1974 that we could own gold again! OBAMA may outlaw gold ownership AGAIN.

Purchases over a certain amount may be TRACKED!

Customs requires a declaration of an amount over a certain amount. I believe that is $3000 now.

If you DO buy gold, buy the physical metal and store it YOURSELF. It should be in coins from a stable government, or HALLMARKED! Hallmarks are NOT certificates! They are literally STAMPED on the bar. It has the weight, purity, metal, and their own hallmark. Johnson Matthey Johnson Matthey Precious Metal Products Division consists of three businesses: Platinum, Colour Technologies and Gold and Silver is one of the best. They WILL charge a BIT over spot, and matthey might be one of the most expensive, and WHY do you do that???? Well, you know how all the cowboy flicks have gold miners having their gold assayed? JM refines, analyzes, certifies, and then hallmarks the gold. So it is an internationally known guarantee that the metal is worth what it is worth.

Steve

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scarcius121 15 years ago

I would be afraid to put that much money into gold and then store it myself. I would be so afraid that something would happen to it. There are better investments and inflation hedges out there besides gold IMO.
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- myob 15 years ago
  
  Many people have it exactly backwards by getting into the gold market at the moment. Savy investors are making big time profits by taking advantage of this very common mistake. Now is actually the absolute worst time to be buying gold. It's at record high prices. I made huge profits in the metals markets over the past 18 months (paper options only; I hate having to physically schlep heavy stuff like that around), and now closing all positions and investing heavily in real estate. Real estate is at record lows and beginning to recover. Buy gold again when the economy recovers (prices will be low), and sell during the next recession. That has worked for me nearly 17 years.
  
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godoveryou 15 years ago

Also if you want to know how to store it, PM me. I will not post these details in public and I do not suggest you do either.

Keeping it in your house is fine, but I know some guys that have had a lot of precious metal stolen and a lot of guys that have had home break-in's and the criminal got away with very very little of the total package. There is something a lot of us pawn brokers do that shouldn't be made avaliable to any criminal in any way.
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Waldo Claassen

15 years ago

I think buying physical gold or even coins like the Kruger Rand isn't a bad idea.
Buying some gold shares is riskier but if gold shoots up they are the first to really start moving upwards.
I would like to buy some more physical gold and gold shares.
I hope that the price of gold goes down so I can buy some more.

Only time will tell
Waldo

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myob

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Waldo Claassen

I hope that the price of gold goes down so I can buy some more.

Only time will tell
Waldo

Time always tells. Look at the historical prices. The time to buy gold was 3+ years ago; now is the time to sell, and invest in stocks and real estate instead.

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john2k

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Grossman

Someone shared this with me today on another forum... shows exactly what happened after the US dollar was decoupled from the gold standard in 71... hidden taxation through inflation.

Hey Dan, that was me who shared that chart with you on SP around a year ago. I joined WarriorForum yesterday and just happened to stumble on to this thread...

Originally Posted by Dan Grossman

I've read his book, Crash Proof, and recommend it if you want some more history to the current economic situation. Just like he says, his book is over a year old but accurately predicts exactly what's going on now.

I never read Crash Proof but I intend to read version 2 of that book (Crash Proof 2.0) which I believe is slated to hit the bookstores this week.

Originally Posted by seasoned

It WAS made illegal in 1933! It wasn't until 1974 that we could own gold again! OBAMA may outlaw gold ownership AGAIN.

The gold confiscation of the 1930s totally boggles my mind and even moreso that we risk something similar happening again. How, in the land of the free, does any level of government make it illegal to own gold? AFAIK, there was zero constitutional authority for the government to do this in the first place, meaning that the only thing illegal was the law to confiscate gold. The fed gov is authorized to coin gold and the States are forbidden, via the Constitution, to make anything but gold or silver a tender in payment of debts.

The federal government receives its authority from The People, via our Constitution. The only way to change the Constitution is to amend it and not for Congress to simply pass a law. Actually, Congress does not have the authority to amend the Constitution as they can only propose amendments but cannot pass them.

How is it that a government with the mandated duty and obligation of protecting our rights/freedoms/liberties end up being a risk to our rights, freedoms & liberties?

Originally Posted by Kenster

Think for a moment about the deficit our country is in and knowing this, it continues to get worse. How are we ever going to pay back the trillions we owe to ourselves and more importantly other countries...artificially hyper-inflate our currency, pay back our debt, return back to normal.

May be simplified picture but the idea is that our country has no choice but to hyperinflate

I tend to agree with this. It almost seems as though the federal government is eroding away the value of the dollar intentionally. The Federal Reserve is probably the easiest example. The Fed's job was to protect the value of the dollar, but since their inception back in 1913 they only succeeded in destroying 96% or so of the dollar's value. The Fed has been an absolute failure in keeping our dollar strong. They know what they are doing, so my guess is that the government intends on paying our debts through gradual inflation that both makes it easier to pay the debt and increases the number of dollars collected at the same time (since there are more of them). My guess is that the government wants to do this slowly and over a long period of time, but there are some factors in play which could cause them to quickly lose control of the monster that they created. Hopefully that does not happen because it would quickly turn into a huge mess.

Originally Posted by HeySal

The 1917 law that states that US citizens can't own gold was never repealed, it was only suspended. They can "un-suspend" that law any damned time they want without any of the problems of writing a new law. That means at the the drop of a hat you might find officials at your door taking the rings right off of your fingers.

Didn't that law cover only investment type gold? I remember reading something about the gov back then not confiscating gold that was either collectible or sentimental. So that would mean basically gold bullion or circulated coins, I think.

Originally Posted by Desmond Ong

From what i learned in my economics class, when gold becomes cheap, oil price will increase. It's kind of an inverse.

Which means:

oil price raises = gold price drops
oil price lowers = gold price increases

Surely your professor was basing that analysis on factors beyond simply the USD increasing or decreasing in value. If that was the only factor then the price of both would increase. This is because purchase transactions are simply a trade in values. When the "value" of the dollar decreases then it takes more of them to purchase the same, regardless of what the other asset is. Was your professor discussing trends in the market? Changes in supply and demand (maybe due to shifts in investment money around the world)?

Originally Posted by Ram

What back's gold? Human belief. Same as what backs the U.S. dollar. Neither has any real value other than what people give them.

The difference between gold and paper money (backed on nothing) is that gold keeps the government honest. Gold is honest money. Fiat currencies enable governments to create more by force or decree, which inflates the money supply, reduces the value of the currency and effectively steals the value of your money right out of your pocket. You can bury your cash in the most secure vault in the world and it still is not safe from the government, because they can still steal away the value via the inflation tax.

Originally Posted by gonzo

Wow some resolution, try doing that in the UK we have nothing like your access to buying guns etc. I reckon we would all be living in our own end of the world type movie if it got that bad.

I read about some guy in the UK who defended himself from two assailants that broke into his home. He shot and killed one assailant and the other was just injured. What happened? The surviving assailant / criminal / thief got 18 months or so in prison. The victim, the guy who simply defended himself, his life and his property, he got 25 years in prison. How can the people in the UK not be absolutely outraged over that? It is a travesty of justice.

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Kenster

15 years ago

I know a good cash for gold company though...hit me up if you want my affiliate link

JUST KIDDING

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HeySal

15 years ago

Right now with massive Government grabs for our money and our very industries, I would think that Gold isn't such a good idea. The 1917 law that states that US citizens can't own gold was never repealed, it was only suspended. They can "un-suspend" that law any damned time they want without any of the problems of writing a new law. That means at the the drop of a hat you might find officials at your door taking the rings right off of your fingers. Of course, there is a provision that forces them to PAY you for that gold...and ya know what they pay you with? All those worthless paper notes that you invested in gold to get away from.

If you want to invest in metal - platinum and the platinum groups of metals (palladium is one) is the way to go. They didn't even really know much about those metals when the gold restriction law was introduced so it's not covered.

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Beyond the Path

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godoveryou

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Grossman

I'm trying to think of a way to safeguard my savings against the US economy, and the US dollar, becoming any worse. I also have over $100,000 in some accounts, which is over the FDIC insured amount, so I need to spread it around somewhere.

I thought perhaps buying gold bars or coins would be a safe store of value I could convert back to dollars in the future.

Is this a good idea? Any advice on where I can read about risks and regulations involved?

What about trustworthy places to make the purchase? And to store it?

As partner in a pawn shop and owner of Cleveland Gold Parties, I will tell you not to sink your money into gold at this time. Buy gold when it's down to $300-$500 a Troy/Oz. If you invest in gold at this point in time, you will watch your money vanish as soon as our GDP improves.

Take it for what you will.... but I melt over $70,000 of gold a month. You might say I deal with it a lot compared to the average Joe.

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Desmond Ong

15 years ago

From what i learned in my economics class, when gold becomes cheap, oil price will increase. It's kind of an inverse.

Which means:

oil price raises = gold price drops
oil price lowers = gold price increases

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BizWebMan 15 years ago

I stand by the fact that silver will be the better performer and the best any of us can do is carry out our own due diligence. The crystal ball watchers will say that now is a good time to invest back in property (real estate) and they may well be right. Everyone seems to have a different perspective on when will and will not be a good time to invest.

I have been watching gold and silver prices for a while now and they are outperforming many other investments It is hard to base things on supply and demand with government intervention and some price supression in the metals markets. Silver gets used more than gold and some day it may well catch up. Look at the gold to silver ratio as it stands now. It has been getting smaller and smaller over the last few months.

As we all know things could change on the turn of any and many different events or circumstances.

Grahame
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- myob 15 years ago
  
  Buying gold and other precious metals should of course be a part of any portfolio. But focusing on gold is extemely myopic, as it is not an investment - it is a hedge. There are many good investment opportunities right now in real estate, the stock market and financial instruments. These are all at historically low prices and will provide real, compounding wealth.
  
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  Ram 15 years ago
  
  What back's gold? Human belief. Same as what backs the U.S. dollar. Neither has any real value other than what people give them.
  
  If the U.S. economy falls and the dollar becomes worthless -- which I do not believe will happen -- there will be a lot worse problems to worry about. If anyone is really worried, buy guns and ammo. That way if the unthinkable happens and you ever find you do need some gold, you can just take it.
  
  As far as a hedge? Not worried. I can always make more currency. Last thing I need is some metal gathering dust, throwing off no cash, and sinking back in value when the dollar rises again -- as it will.
  
  Juts one more thought -- ever notice how all those "experts" on TV and radio commercials urging you to buy gold are more than willing to trade their gold for your currency? Should to tell you something.
  
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  BizWebMan 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Ram
  
  If anyone is really worried, buy guns and ammo. That way if the unthinkable happens and you ever find you do need some gold, you can just take it.
  
  Wow some resolution, try doing that in the UK we have nothing like your access to buying guns etc. I reckon we would all be living in our own end of the world type movie if it got that bad.
  
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nosweatnobrainer

15 years ago

IMHO, when world's economy falls, only physical gold and silver will be left standing. Paper money and shares can become worth-less if any major global mishaps occurs. Besides, if you really look at paper money and shares, they are just paper. Physical gold and silver, now that's different.

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Dan Grossman

15 years ago

Originally Posted by nosweatnobrainer

IMHO, when world's economy falls, only physical gold and silver will be left standing. Paper money and shares can become worth-less if any major global mishaps occurs. Besides, if you really look at paper money and shares, they are just paper. Physical gold and silver, now that's different.

If the world economy were to "fall", then the relative value of currencies would not have changed and there would be no reason to abandon paper currency. Quality of life would simply drop.

The doomsday scenario in which holding gold preserves buying power is when individual countries' currency fails while other major countries' currency does not fail.

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Ram 15 years ago

If the U.S. economy ever falls and the dollar becomes mere paper, then it is almost certain every other country's economy will fall as well. The U.S. is just "too big to fail" without taking everyone else down as well.

When the U.S.' major trading partners go under, their other partners will as well. It would be like nothing ever imagined.

But I emphasize I do not believe the doomsday scenario will come to pass. I think this is just a bump in the cycle. A big one, but a bump nonetheless.
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jgand

15 years ago

I don't buy actual gold, but I do buy stock in companies that produce gold and they do seem to be doing well. You might want to check out GOLDX. Its doing pretty well.

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