There Is No Spoon ... Or Plane!!

[YiKeS]

Pentagon ... September 11 ... 9/11 ... certainly a tragedy, IMHO also
a certain coverup. I do believe a plane hit, I do NOT however believe
the "official story" that has been presented to the world ... more holes
than swiss cheese.

The FACT they do not show clear evidence of what really happened is
much more than worrying ... it shows they`re hiding something ... BIG!

Want to see the "plane" hit the Pentagon? Well so do I ... so here it is

but it IS a photoshopped image ... compare with the "official images"
and you`ll see why so many question this bull**** ... doesn`t add up at
all.

================
What You`d Expect To See ...

===========================

OFFICIAL IMAGES RELEASED BY PENTAGON
Plane Hits Pentagon

===========================

Honestly ... you simply couldn`t miss a damn plane that size if it truly
was there ... in those frames ... so what was it? Until the TRUTH does
come out and evidence is presented actually showing this plane, I think
the "official images" show a missile ... a few frames further on would show
the plane hitting AFTER the initial blast ... meaning the plane wasn`t the
cause of this ... and those blamed are simply pawns in the deceptive
chessgame being played out before our eyes.

Don`t think your brainwashed from media? NAME the terrorist then at
the head of this so called terrorist organization being blamed ...

(No it isn`t Osama) (or G Dubya either)

Christopher J.

P.S. Some food for thought ... as I think Sal says ...
quite an unbelieveable military coffee break at one of
the most well defended bits of dirt on the planet ...

The Attack On The Pentagon

P.P.S. I`ve turned the Fan on!

[Kyle Tully]

The Pod People And The Plane That Crashed Into the Pentagon

[Kyle Tully]

Originally Posted by espacecadet

And here's something else to ponder: how many times a second does that security camera click? How fast was the 'plane' going when it 'hit' the Pentagon? The security camera caught a 'plane' going around 400 or 500 miles per hour, and it caught it, what? Three times? Four times?

That must be one fast camera they have watching the entrance to a parking lot!

Did you actually read the post and look at the videos?

The video in this thread is a PHOTOSHOPPED one.

The video in the link is the official one that shows the plane in only 1 frame.

Read the link I posted then take off your tin foil hat.

[Kyle Tully]

Originally Posted by espacecadet

You claim that the video that only shows the 'plane' in one frame is the official version. Well, yeah, and it's the second 'official' version.

Apologies, I didn't realize the first video was an official one. I thought it was something pulled from the net that some random person had photoshopped.

The reason I didn't pull anything else out of the post was that everything is answered in the link I posted.

It's very obvious that a plane hit.

[HeySal]

Pictures can be faked -witnesses bought or brainwashed (see US Gov Registered Mind Control Patents - especially cell phone capabilities). For every "eyewitness" that saw or heard something, there is another who saw or heard something entirely different. For every explanation the government has, there are experts that disagree with the physical possibilities of that explanation.

I don't care what did or didn't hit the Pentagon any more. What I want to know is whether anyone in our Gov was behind it in any way shape or form - and that includes just knowing that an attack was planned and ignoring it.

For the last time - - where the hell was our Air Force? Even after two planes hit the towers the air force wasn't concerned about a plane entering Pentagon air space even after two towers were hit? Where were the guys in the flight control towers? They didn't notice a diverted flight pattern? This wasn't some backwater coastal building on the edge of nowhere of interest- it was the PENTAGON and the towers had already been hit. No Air Force. Sure. That makes SO MUCH sense. You try to get a plane into the Pentagon airspace without notice. I don't think so.

That one just will never add up for me no matter who says they saw what or who releases what videos. Hollywood does incredible things with videos.

This whole event just stinks to high hell no matter whether it was a plane, a torpedo, nothing that hit the Pentagon - and so does the refusal of an independent investigation.

[Kyle Tully]

So the eye witness reports, plane wreckage, 5 light posts knocked down (at least 20ft apart), missing plane etc count for nothing?

Hey, I'm all open to conspiracy theories. They're great fun and make for interesting entertainment, but this one just doesn't add up.

And you still haven't answered any of the proof offered in the link I posted that discredits much of what has been said in this thread.

[YiKeS]

lol ... it IS a photoshopped IMAGE (animated) above and not a video
above and I ask ... where the *&*&*^ is the plane in the official
images?

That is the point ... the animated image is what you SHOULD see in the
official images, yet you cannot see the plane the size of a 757 there ...
and I made it PERFECTLY clear I believe a plane did hit the Pentagon,
only I believe it hit AFTER whatever it is making the dust trail in the
"official pics".

It`s clear a plane hit from evidence of the poles being down on the
freeway ... the width is over 100 feet ... windspan of 757 is 125 feet
... fact remains tho the "official images" do NOT show that plane at all
... rather, something much smaller. The blown up images provided at the
site you linked with Kyle are in no way to scale ... if it was really a 757
you`d bloody well know it ... would be much larger than what you see.

In regards to "you wouldn`t catch it on camera" ... you would, only it
would be that fricken big you could NEVER mistake it for anything but a
plane ... not the blurry little flash that zooms in from the right in one
frame of the "official images".

The link you provide Kyle doesn`t begin to explain things mate
... I suggest you read the information I provided with this link.

The Attack On The Pentagon

Much more detail ... and the Govt HAS admitted there was another plane
in the area at the time ... a military one to boot ... read it all, twice if you
have to ... put`s much more of the jigsaw together in great detail.

C`mon ... name that bloody terrorist to!!

Christopher J.

P.S. Kyle ... just exactly WHAT are you trying to discredit?? ... lol ...

[TimPhelan]

Originally Posted by Kyle Tully

So the eye witness reports, plane wreckage, 5 light posts knocked down (at least 20ft apart), missing plane etc count for nothing?

Hey, I'm all open to conspiracy theories. They're great fun and make for interesting entertainment, but this one just doesn't add up.

And you still haven't answered any of the proof offered in the link I posted that discredits much of what has been said in this thread.

It doesn't matter Kyle. You probably won't change anyone's mind. Heck they even found the dna at the seen of everyone of the passengers except for one baby. Of course, that is part of their conspiracy also.

By the way, that first photoshopped video was never shown over and over in the first days after 9-11. Show it to me in a news braodcast.

[YiKeS]

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It doesn't matter Kyle. You probably won't
change anyone's mind. Heck they even found the dna at the seen of
everyone of the passengers except for one baby. Of course, that is
part of their conspiracy also.

By the way, that first photoshopped video was never shown over and
over in the first days after 9-11. Show it to me in a news braodcast.

Just exactly what, in MY mind, am I supposed to change Tim?

The official story simply doesn`t add up ... yes a plane hit the
Pentagon ... but so did something else beforehand ... and to even
consider a plane of this size could get within site of the Pentagon
let alone run into the fricken thing on ANY day is beyond belief ...
even more so on THAT particular day ... do you not think the US
Govt. had anything to do with this at all?

From another thread ... your quote Tim ...

One of the best arguements against 9-11 being an inside job for me has always been the common sense one, that these guys in charge, Bushco, are too incompetent and dumb to ever pull it off.

Commen sense!?? .. lol ... you KNOW Bushco needs to be impeached yet
it`s impossible for him/them not to be involved in it? (You`d be surprised
just how little NEED to be involved to ... certainly not a huge number you
seem to think) You totally ignore the question I ask ....... where in the
official image/s is this plane?

Well they`re competent and smart enough to make you believe they
aren`t involved in this coverup ... you want to believe the eyewitnesses
to the Pentagon crash which is "correct" yet you dismiss evidence from
hundreds of EXPERTS saying the Govt. IS involved ... BTW ... you should
do more research on your "credible witnesses" to ... lol.

Tim ... name that terrorist ...

Oh, wait, I think Christopher did that in the OP, didn't he?

Spacecadet ... forget about pods ... ... and NO, that photoshopped
image wasn`t done by the Govt, was never shown straight after 911 and
was created VERY roughly to show what SHOULD be in the official images
provided by the Govt ... whew ... go check the link I gave and you`ll see.

Christopher J.

[TimPhelan]

Originally Posted by Christopher J.

yes a plane hit the
Pentagon ... but so did something else beforehand .

LOL. That's a good one. These theories just get more crazy as time goes by. Wow!

[YiKeS]

Originally Posted by espacecadet

Christopher, that video wasn't Photoshopped by the government, then who did it? Got any names?

Was done very roughly to show what SHOULD be in the official images provided by the government? You mean like G.W. saying he seen video of the FIRST plane hitting the World Trade Center tower when such video did not exist? (In his mind he did, because he had already watched mock-up videos that were Photoshopped to show what it would look like.)

Where do you get your info?

I know what I seen and I seen the video you posted in the OP when they showed it on tv shortly after 9/11. Guess I should've recorded it from the Nightly News with Tom Brokaw to show to you, too.

And yes, I looked at the link. Again.

G`day mate,

meh, maybe I haven`t made it clear enough which link to use ... the
photoshopped image I am talking about is in my opening post ... it is
NOT a video ... it is an animated .gif image ... the link to follow is ...

The Attack On The Pentagon

... answers to all the questions you just asked are there to ... and
MUCH more ... no spoon tho!!

Christopher J.

P.S. Why can noone name that terrorist!??

[YiKeS]

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

LOL. That's a good one. These theories just get more crazy as time goes by. Wow!

Well come on bigshot ... show me the fricken plane! You laugh yet offer nothing of proof yourself ... ... put up or shutup mate.

[TimPhelan]

You already say you believe there was a plane that hit the Pentagon and there is plenty of hard evidence of the 757 hitting the pentagon.

What I don't get is if you believe the plane hit the building, why do you need to believe something else hit it? You don't think a 757 was enough to do any damage? I suppose the something else hit it a split second beforehand? This is ridiculous.

[YiKeS]

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You already say you believe there was a plane that hit the Pentagon and there is plenty of hard evidence of the 757 hitting the pentagon.

What I don't get is if you believe the plane hit the building, why do you need to believe something else hit it? You don't think a 757 was enough to do any damage? I suppose the something else hit it a split second beforehand? This is ridiculous.

Why? Because the official images of this so called plane are NOT the
plane at all ... why aren`t you prepared to even consider your Govt.
would be capable of this coverup? They`re to dumb?? ... LOL

And why do you continually ignore my direct questions to you? sheeesh

Christopher J.

[Kay King]

The fact that you believe the conspiracy theorists doesn't mean anything except it's your opinion. Why is is hard to believe that not everyone sees a plot?

This has been argued ad nauseum. Some people see conspiracies in everything that happens - others don't.

Argument and insults don't change anyone's opinion and are totally useless.

kay

[TimPhelan]

Originally Posted by Christopher J.

Because the official images of this so called plane are NOT the plane at all ...

That's your opinion. You already said a plane hit the Pentagon. The passengers DNA was found there. Eyewitnesses saw a AA 757.

Take a look at this video again: Look at the frames from 2:20 on. Looks like it can be the AA 757 that was hijacked, that people saw hit the Pentagon, whose passenger's DNA was found at the crash site....

YouTube - 9/11 Debunked: Pentagon Flight 77 Video...

It's not that I think the Gov isn't capable of a coverup, it's just that in this case it was Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Why can't YOU accept that?

[TimPhelan]

Originally Posted by espacecadet

Or maybe it was one of those Stealth planes that nobody can see that fired the missile in front of the 757.

Yeh, you're right. I just found the video that explains it all!

YouTube - 9/11 CONSPIRACY PROOF! FIRST REAL...

[Mal Keenan]

That's part of the problem too, Kay. If one doubts the official version - as I most certainly do, having looked at the evidence - you are branded a conspiracy theorist, which translates to 'nutjob'.

I personally don't go looking for 'things' wrong with the world, or conspiracies - as I'm sure is the case with many others.

I also don't believe everything I read here or any other sites concerning planes or lack of planes. There have been some weird conspiracies surfacing on the side of those who doubt the official story too.

Even without the argument of whether any plane hit the pentagon or any of the other anomalies in this event. The fact that a plane got anywhere near the pentagon - without triggering any defensive actions - is more than enough evidence for me that something isn't right.

Come on! Arguably the most heavily guarded building in the world and a plane - or something - crashes into the side of it without a shot or missile fired in defence. Does this seem possible?

The fact that it happened four times in one day over the space of an hour or two without any planes intercepting makes it all the more unbelievable. Yes, I've read the offical explanations. I dont buy it! Neither does Michael Meacher - an ex cabinet minister in the British government - story here

The most unbelievable conspiracy of the lot is that 19 arabs - some of whom later turned up alive - took over four planes, crashed them all in the U.S, hitting three of their targets. ALL planned and orchestrated by a guy with a beard - from a cave in Afghanistan - and America didn't put up any defense at all.

You expect me to believe that?

No one should believe anything they read here. Go do your own research and make up your own mind.

There are numerous, pilots, engineers, architects, ex government officials, and people from all walks of life doubting the official conspiracy theory - that's all it is - being put forth by the government.

No one is a 'nut' for doubting what they've been told - quite the opposite - especially if those telling you have since been proven to have told lies after lies and have been responsible for the horrific deaths of countless innocent people with no plans to stop. Not to mention 1000s of U.S soldiers.

Originally Posted by Kay King

This has been argued ad nauseum. Some people see conspiracies in everything that happens - others don't.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Kay King

The fact that you believe the conspiracy theorists doesn't mean anything except it's your opinion. Why is is hard to believe that not everyone sees a plot?

This has been argued ad nauseum. Some people see conspiracies in everything that happens - others don't.

Argument and insults don't change anyone's opinion and are totally useless.

kay

Kay,

When you realize that in 1993 the WTC was hit and that people have come forward to state there was a possible conspiracy back then, what are we to expect when a second bombing happens?

What about the FBI chief that came forward exposing the scams, fraud, and illegal activity that the FBI does (and that they were involved with a conspiracy against the WTC)? I guess no one seems to care about that? Some people don't believe everything the media feeds them, so they have alternative suggestions.

If in 1993 there was a conspiracy... Why would people not think there is a conspiracy the second time? Does anyone see a possible pattern here?

[TimPhelan]

The most unbelievable conspiracy of the lot is that 19 arabs - some of whom later turned up alive - took over four planes, crashed them all in the U.S, hitting three of their targets. ALL planned and orchestrated by a guy with a beard - from a cave in Afghanistan - and America didn't put up any defense at all.

Why is it hard to believe 19 "arabs" can take over 4 planes? Arabs aren't smart enough or something? Plus, they did not later turn up alive. You need to investigate more Mal. That was disproven a long time ago. Also, what's having a "beard" have to do with this? Plus, he wasn't in any cave before this happened. All weak arguements. Keep reading.

[Kay King]

If in 1993 there was a conspiracy... Why would people not think there is a conspiracy the second time? Does anyone see a possible pattern here?

The pattern I see is if you believe in one possible conspiracy, you may believe them all. Is that informed thinking - or just gullible?

If there was not a conspiracy in 1993, does it then follow that there was not a conspiracy on 9/11?

Conspiracy theories give rise to the lowest type of response: fear, anger, distrust, suspicion. They also often are used to justify hatred, racism, bigotry, etc.

kay

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Kay King

The pattern I see is if you believe in one possible conspiracy, you may believe them all. Is that informed thinking - or just gullible?

If there was not a conspiracy in 1993, does it then follow that there was not a conspiracy on 9/11?

Conspiracy theories give rise to the lowest type of response: fear, anger, distrust, suspicion. They also often are used to justify hatred, racism, bigotry, etc.

kay

Yeah Kay, I do believe the potential for people to lie. I don't have a closed mind like others.

Is it the thinking that it is it NOT possible- that is being gullible and naive?

There was a conspiracy in 1993. Thats the point. The FBI was recorded on conversations (proof) that they were involved with the operation. Do you not realize that, or even that there is proof you'll still deny it?

Or maybe the evidence that the CIA was smuggling drugs is not enough for you? CIA drug trafficking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you do some searching you'll find some compelling arguments.

I don't believe every theory out there, but I do believe in possibilites, which I guess you don't?

[Mal Keenan]

Thanks.

Originally Posted by espacecadet

Mal, your post makes more sense than any I have seen anywhere on this forum today. Great post, man. Well said.

Tim,

Maybe the 'alive hijackers' story was mistaken or maybe the newspapers were backtracking. Wouldn't be beyond the realms of possiblility. I'll give you that though. I wasn't aware that there were counter stories.

Do I believe 19 arabs can hijack planes? Yeah I do. Maybe even 4 at the same time successfully, if they are extremely well organized, and determined. I don't believe 19 arabs can dupe a multi-billion dollar defense system, without the help of those in power and certainly not four times on the same day.

Ponder that for a minute or two! What's the probability of them being successful even once never mind 4 times?

What happened to America's defenses? They were just non-existent that day? You think it plausible the Pentagon and the rest of the U.S didn't protect itself? Surely not?

Incompetency? Even with unfathomable human error surely the pentagon has automatic defense systems. Did they fail too? Those lucky, lucky terrorists. They MUST have been doing some praying to Allah that day.

Look at the bigger picture, Tim. Inaction by the U.S defense system is just a small piece. Put it all together and there is no doubt.

[Mal Keenan]

I was trying to convey the ludicrousy of the official story. Not to be taken literally.

And BTW they did try to tell us it was done from a cave. Wow and what a cave it was:
Bin Laden, Tora Bora

I remember seeing this piece with Tim Russert about the caves and actually believing it. I'm sure many still do.

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Also, what's having a "beard" have to do with this? Plus, he wasn't in any cave before this happened.

[bendiggs]

Oh my gosh. I can not believe some of you people. So a quick bit of information for all of you. I was actually in the Pentagon the morning it was hit by a plane. I was almost directly opposite of the impact point, and did not see the actual impact, but I certainly felt it. I had just, literally the day before, been hired on as a contractor doing some training software for the DOD, and was getting the tour of the Pentagon when the attack happened. I can't say for certain that there weren't multiple impacts and what have you, but I do know for a fact a big plane plowed into the building. This conspiracy BS has got to stop.

[TimPhelan]

Originally Posted by Mal Keenan

I was trying to convey the ludicrousy of the official story.

Sorry, but you didn't convey that at all. Try again, because the only ludicris stuff I have seen is from the conspiracy theorists. And this comes from an anti Bush, anti neocon lifelong Democrat. However, I know BS when I see it.

Bin Laden was not at Tora Bora when the attacks happened. It doesn't matter what some artist drew. He was cornered at Tora Bora and we probably could have gotten him if we had more than 50 or so US soldiers there. This is Bush's fault. The Army requested more soldiers to get Bin Laden. He ignored them.

Regarding our billion dollar defense system. Just because we spend a lot of money on our defense doesn't mean it can't be taken advantage of:

Claim: No fighter jets were scrambled from any of the 28 Air Force bases within close range of the four hijacked flights. "On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C.," says the Web site emperors-clothes.com. "They failed to do their job." "There is only one explanation for this," writes Mark R. Elsis of StandDown.net. "Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11."

FACT: On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked — the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them.

The truth is Mal, the US is still extremely vulnerable to terrorist attacks. The borders are wide open, the ports are not protected properly and many important targets are not protected. Look at what the 9-11 commission recommended and what has been put into place.

Our air defense systems at the time were set up more to protect from outside attacks. Not from attacks that come from within. You see, Bin Laden and the "arabs" were smarter than you give them credit for.

They probably are happier than hell to see all these people blaim the US. Especially after admitting to the attacks. They are probably laughing their asses off at all of this conspiracy theory stuff.

Or maybe they're pissed off thinking "What the hell? We kill thousands and we don't get credit from some of these people. How can we be terrorists if they blaim their own government?"

Very frustrating for the Jihadists I'm sure.

[HeySal]

Don't know why they'd be frustrated, Tim -- look what has happened to this country since then.

As far as "from caves". I have been to Hitler's Cave in Garmish(Germany). That was one well equiped little hide-out, by all means - and that was the 40's. I can't imagine what a cave could be like now...er...well, of course the one in the US out by Colorado Springs isn't any too shabby. I sure wouldn't want some one operating from there to get a voova for me.

Look - some of us have questions - and there are enough holes in the official report to drain boiled spaghetti. Feeling so superior as to call someone a lunatic or nutcase because they have questions is a pretty precarious position to put yourself into. What did people say last year when the "nutcases" and "lunatic fringe" predicted our present economic crisis? That we were crazy, stupid, lunatic, conspiracy theorists, yadda yadda yadda.

Well you know something - the crisis is here. If you were one of the name callers, you might just want to cough up a kidney and admit that maybe we weren't so freaking stupid or crazy after all.

Now - what happens when we get an independent investigation and it turns up that as well over one third of the population (a.k.a. lunatic fringe) are right in their assumptions that something is rotten in the White House? Are you ready to eat that one, too, if served up raw?

It's one thing to be satisfied with the official story - it's another to be so self sanctifying at this point of the game as to feel entitled to call others insane for having questions. Some humans are capable of horrors beyond the reckoning of normal beings. None of us want to believe that anyone in our leadership might be sick and twisted enough to do this sort of thing - but they are sick and twisted enough to be torturers - and that's not theory that is in the Judiciary at the moment and the proof is there. What kind of a mind does that? The same kind that would be capable of mass murder. And that is what Iraq is - an illegal genocidal war that finished up what Bush's daddy started - and justified by the events of 9/11 even though Iraq had **** from shinola to do with any of it. Now - look back at what Bush's daddy wanted to do about Iran and see where we are with Iran right now.

We don't have to argue about what sick and twisted events have been perpetrated upon the world using this event as the excuse. The only argument is if these F***ers were able to construct the event (money and connections are there) or ignore the knowledge it was about to happen. The question isn't how sane are people with questions about holes in the official report on this event - The question is exactly HOW insane are our criminals in office. I think we have some good clues to those answers.

[TimPhelan]

...as to call someone a lunatic or nutcase..

Sal, you'll notice I used the lunatic word because Mal used it to describe the official version. He didn't use it against me I don't think. I used it in response to his words but didn't call him a lunatic.

Now, the reason I am debating this is because as I said before it hurts the cause of people against neocons and the far right. I have been looking at these 9/11 conspiracy theories for years. Remember that thread 3 years ago? In three years I haven't seen one thing that couldn't be easily debunked. Nothing.

You're right about the real issue being the Iraq war and the corruption. That is why I argue. Lets focus on what matters.

[Kay King]

bendiggs -

I've talked to three other people who were in the Pentagon at the time and all report seeing the plane. Yet the "no plane" theory persists.

You might find this site interesting
9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon, page 1

[MaskedMarketer]

Can someone please show me evidence that the 1993 bombing was not a conspiracy that involved the FBI? Can someone disprove the verified phone conversations that the FBI had with the terrorists planning the event? If there is enough real evidence then I'd like to believe either side.

I could accpet that I may have seen a fake video (even though it has been edited) of the pentagon, but if a plane really hit the pentagon how come we don't have the videos of it? Why are they withholding information that should be available to everyone? Thats what raises RED FLAGS everywhere. No one else's BS meter goes off because of that?

Its like someone claiming in this forum that they make 1 mill a year and want to show you how... Obviously that raises red flags to everyone and they would want proof. Real proof. Pictures can be faked and so can testimonials. I need more than just a persons word (means nothing to me). I need to see proof with my own eyes.

I wouldn't hold the government to another standard which is why I want undeniable proof. For that, I need an unedited version of video of what happened that day. Why would they be hiding it from the public?

[askloz]

Anyone see that black area to the top left of the explosion? looks like one of those kite planes, thing is, something like that handle the weight of a huge bomb to do that kind of damage?

[bendiggs]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Er...Bendiggs do you happen to know what part of the army admin was located at the impact point of the Pentagon strike...?...Regards Indy

I don't. As I said I had literally been hired on as a contractor the day before and was just getting the tour of our Pentagon operations. I wasn't even going to end up working there, that just happened to be where the company was headquartered, and one of our on site work spaces. I was there that morning for about an hour, and have never been back after they evacuated the building.

[Indiana]

Merci...Bendiggs...I will find out...Indy

[TimPhelan]

Thanks for that link Kay. That site has the best group of photos of wreckage I have seen. If that doesn't convince people a 757 hit the Pentagon nothing will.

Originally Posted by Kay King

bendiggs -

I've talked to three other people who were in the Pentagon at the time and all report seeing the plane. Yet the "no plane" theory persists.

You might find this site interesting
9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon, page 1

[Phnx]

Here's an interesting cam footage that's just surfaced. If it's genuine, the guy needs to get out of dodge sharpish.

It shows 2 choppers entering the smoke at the top of the first tower...I've only watched the first 5 minutes (it's over an hour of footage), but this is not something I've seen before. You can also hear the choppers faintly.

911 Eyewitness

[TimPhelan]

Uhm. Yeh, there were copters there. They are seen in many other videos. That's the news copters. Geesh. By the way, the smoke at the bottom of the trade center is a car that caught fire from debris hitting it.

Originally Posted by Phnx

Here's an interesting cam footage that's just surfaced. If it's genuine, the guy needs to get out of dodge sharpish.

It shows 2 choppers entering the smoke at the top of the first tower...I've only watched the first 5 minutes (it's over an hour of footage), but this is not something I've seen before. You can also hear the choppers faintly.

911 Eyewitness

[Phnx]

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Uhm. Yeh, there were copters there. They are seen in many other videos. That's the news copters. Geesh. By the way, the smoke at the bottom of the trade center is a car that caught fire from debris hitting it.

Mmm no, these aren't the news copters, they were too high and too close. The police copters weren't allowed to get in that close. Watch the whole thing. I'm 45 minutes in and it's very interesting. The police said they could have rescued a few dozen people, it would have been difficult but possible. So why weren't they allowed to even attempt it, when they'd previously rescued people from the top of the WTC last time there was fire there?

[Phnx]

Watch at about 47 minutes. You'll hear the explosion the eye witnesses spoke of well before each of the towers fell.

[Kay King]

REAL evidence that didn't surface for three years? Uh-huh - guess they didn't realize it might be important.

Can someone please show me evidence that the 1993 bombing was not a conspiracy that involved the FBI?

You are asking for the impossible - it's common knowledge that you cannot "prove" a negative.

If something didn't happen, no evidence that it didn't happen exists - because it didn't happen.....

I ran the conspiracy thingie by my visiting son, who was FBI before his current position. He laughed, said it was funny they'd believe FBI is smart enough to hide a huge conspiracy yet dumb enough to keep recorded phone calls about it, too....good point.

[Patrician]

Well with all due respect, then who is the guy on the video that says he is a former FBI supervisor and that he has testimony (albeit from a snitch) that the 1993 WTC 'issue' was definitely created from within.

Was he just an actor from the conspiracy theory playhouse?

[TimPhelan]

Mmm no, these aren't the news copters, they were too high and too close. The police copters weren't allowed to get in that close. Watch the whole thing.

No. I don't think I will. Good luck to you though.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Kay King

You are asking for the impossible - it's common knowledge that you cannot "prove" a negative.

If something didn't happen, no evidence that it didn't happen exists - because it didn't happen.....

LOL, since you can't disprove it you spit jibberish like this?

So the evidence that it did happen doesn't count, correct? The testimonials, the recordings, just don't matter, right? Is that what your saying? Ignore the information thats out there?

Originally Posted by Kay King

I ran the conspiracy thingie by my visiting son, who was FBI before his current position. He laughed, said it was funny they'd believe FBI is smart enough to hide a huge conspiracy yet dumb enough to keep recorded phone calls about it, too....good point.

Kay, your visiting son is 100% correct. Thank you for proving my point.

The FBI isn't smart. Thats right. They didn't and couldn't hide there conspiracy. Thats why its widely known.

Dumb enough to keep recorded phone calls? This just shows your ignorance. The recorded calls that are available were not recorded by the FBI- you don't even know the correct story.

Plus, the Cheif of the FBI is more credible (and has access to more information) than your imaginary "visiting son"....

If you can't bring evidence to disprove the "conspiracy", then I will belive the facts that are out there until someone can prove otherwise.

Bring me some real documented evidence to combat whats out there because you failed to prove anything.

[HeySal]

Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

[MaskedMarketer]

HeySal,

Very interesting. (7 Billion Lawsuit)?- He Must Be Doing It Only For The Money. He Is A Fraud !!!

And of course, anyone that opposes the "official story" as to what happened at 9.11 is a "conspiracy theorist."

Sad really.

A cover up happened 1993 (although many are blind to that) and it happened again (people still blind).

I give the government an 'A' for knowing how to control the population.

They have trained you well.

----------------

"Stanley Hilton was a senior advisor to Sen Bob Dole (R) and has personally known Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz for decades. This courageous man has risked his professional reputation, and possibly his life, to get this information out to people."


“This (9/11) was all planned. This was a government-ordered operation. Bush personally signed the order. He personally authorized the attacks. He is guilty of treason and mass murder.” –Stanley Hilton


"He is former Bob Dole’s chief of staff, very successful counselor, lawyer. He represents hundreds of the victims families of 9/11. He is suing Bush for involvement in 9/11. Now a major Zogby poll out - half of New Yorkers think the government was involved in 9/11."


"Our case is alleging that Bush and his puppets Rice and Cheney and Mueller and Rumsfeld and so forth, Tenet, were all involved not only in aiding and abetting and allowing 9/11 to happen but in actually ordering it to happen. Bush personally ordered it to happen. We have some very incriminating documents as well as eye-witnesses, that Bush personally ordered this event to happen in order to gain political advantage, to pursue a bogus political agenda on behalf of the neocons and their deluded thinking in the Middle East."


"I went to school with some of these neocons. At the University of Chicago, in the late 60s with Wolfowitz and Feith and several of the others and so I know these people personally. And we used to talk about this stuff all of the time. And I did my senior thesis on this very subject - how to turn the U.S. into a presidential dictatorship by manufacturing a bogus Pearl Harbor event. So, technically this has been in the planning at least 35 years."


"Yeah, we are suing Bush, Condoleezza Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Mueller, etc. for complicity in personally not only allowing 9/11 to happen but in ordering it. The hijackers we retained and we had a witness who is married to one of them. The hijackers were U.S. undercover agents. They were double agents, paid by the FBI and the CIA to spy on Arab groups in this country. They were controlled. Their landlord was an FBI informant in San Diego and other places. And this was a direct, covert operation ordered, personally ordered by George W. Bush. Personally ordered. We have incriminating evidence, documents as well as witnesses, to this effect. It’s not just incompetence - in spite of the fact that he is incompetent. The fact is he personally ordered this, knew about it. He, at one point, there were rehearsals of this."


"We have evidence both documentary as well as witness sworn statements from undercover former FBI agents, FBI informants, etc., that other officials in the Pentagon and the military and the Air Force that deal with the fact that there were many drills, many rehearsals for 9/11 before it happened."


"Just like the first World Trade Center [bombing] where they get two retarded men who followed this blind sheik who had a tiny mosque above a pizza parlor. And they set them up as the patsies. Then the FBI cooks the bomb, trains the drivers. This informant goes, “You’re not going to bomb the building? They go “Yeah, we’re letting it go forward.” He tapes them to protect themselves. The two retarded gentlemen, thank God, didn’t park it up against the column, as the FBI instructed them to do, so it didn’t bring down the tower - because you have to be right up against the column."

[HeySal]

Just getting things done in the only way he can, MM. The damn has to be cracked before the leak will start.

I'm not familiar with 1993 political events - I hate politics and never became involved until the 2005 CODEX Initiative - I like my health freedom and have no plans in seeing a doctor to get inefficient doses of Vit C at extortionary prices. How do we save our asses in a Pandemic if we can't have anything proven to kill the viruses? So that one put me in the political playing field.

I know only that the WTC was hit with a few bombs planted in the basement (garage?) or something somewhere around that time.

It's all pieces of the same event we are seeing - 9/11, usurpation of Constitutional rights, bail outs. Just keep quiet and don't spoil the ending for everyone else who hasn't figured out the plot yet. LMFAO.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by HeySal

I'm not familiar with 1993 political events

I know only that the WTC was hit with a few bombs planted in the basement (garage?) or something somewhere around that time.

Yeah the FBI used informant(s) for an undercover operation. They should have really been busting this operation, but instead, they used the "terrorists" as fronts to carry out there operations. It was obviously all pre-planned by the FBI.

The FBI helped build the bomb. They helped carry out the actions and wanted it to happen. The informant didn't realize the FBI wanted it to be carried out, so he recorded the conversations he had with the FBI, so he could prove his innocents.

Anyone with half a brain could see there is a potential cover up going on here...

[djarchi]

9/11 was an act of terrorism and not a conspiracy.

[Kay King]

masked marketer

You seem incapable of discussing anything unless you use personal insults and insist on being right.

Anyone with any education knows the "can't prove a negative" fact - it's widely taught. If you would give some thought to how you would prove a negative, you might figure it out.

My son is not imaginary - and was giving his opinion. I know his ethics and abilities and would trust them over yours any day.

The Government's chief informer in the terrorism trial of Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 10 others admitted yesterday that he had threatened to falsely accuse the F.B.I. of knowing in advance that the World Trade Center would be bombed and of failing to stop it.

But the informer, Emad Salem, denied a defense lawyer's contention that he had made the threat to blackmail the F.B.I. into paying him handsomely to work undercover in the effort to catch the bombers. Mr. Salem had worked as an informer for the F.B.I. earlier, but the agency had dropped him seven months before the Trade Center bombing.

"In February or March, did you threaten the F.B.I. by saying you'd expose their role in the World Trade Center bombing?" one of the lawyers, John H. Jacobs, asked Mr. Salem yesterday, referring to his talks with agents about resuming his undercover role.

"I said it, sir," the witness said.

But he insisted that he had said it not to extort the agency but to protect himself in case "something wrong happened to me." He hewed to this line even after Mr. Jacobs cited a recorded conversation between Mr. Salem and an F.B.I. agent that, the lawyer maintains, shows Mr. Salem saying he would tell the news media he himself had helped build the Trade Center bomb under F.B.I. supervision.

That's just one of the snitches that were so widely quoted. There's a lot of info out there about them. Could find no reference to a retired FBI supervisor so don't know where that one came from. Come to think of it - don't care, either.

Believe what you want - it's nothing to me.

kay

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Could find no reference to a retired FBI supervisor so don't know where that one came from. Come to think of it - don't care, either.

Thats the problem Kay, you just don't care. You can't find the Chief FBI stating the FBI is a fraud because it doesn't fit with your story.

The video is actually posted on this forum.

I apologize if I insulted you. Just don't expect me to believe a "testimonial" that is not documented and that could very well be imaginary.

The FBI Chief that I mention, is actually documented, whether what he is stating is true or not...

I do hope you're right, though.

The problem is theres too many beliefs, and not enough facts/evidence.