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Song Contest Part 2 - Heart On My Sleeve

by Steven Wagenheim
21 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
I don't usually open up like this on a public forum but after 25 years you kind
of get to the point where you don't really care if people see that you're a
little bit vulnerable.

As most of you probably know, back in October, I entered a song contest
that's going to be judged in March of next year. I posted the songs I was
going to be sending.

You can see that thread here.

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...submitted.html

I have decided to enter 5 more songs, 3 of which you have already heard.
They are on that thread.

Hang On Irene
Rise Of Nations
There Goes Another One

The other 2, I will post here shortly. Any comments are welcome but not
required.

Here comes the hard part.

As an Internet marketer, I have more than learned about rejection.

2% conversion on sales pages (98 out of 100 people think you suck)
Refunds
Nasty emails telling me that I'm a hack

You name it. I've seen it all.

Over the almost 7 years that I have been marketing online, I have
toughened up quite a bit. Most of this stuff doesn't even phase me
anymore.

The emails I delete.
The refunds I take care of in 60 seconds
The 2% conversion (I'm grateful for that much)

It's a business and quite honestly, one that I now do with very little
emotion. I still take pride in my work and try to put out the best product
I can, but I don't get myself in knots over it anymore.

But my music...well...25 years is a long time to have nothing to show for
more blood, sweat and tears than I have ever put into an IM product.
Maybe that's why IM is so easy for me. I don't know.

But music...it's like trying to get Tyra Banks to fall in love with you when
you're 5 ft 2, have a wart in the middle of your forehead, and walk like
Quasi Moto.

During the time that I have studied, written songs, submitted to song
contests and publishers, I have had more rejection than a leper at a
beach resort.

Even personal friends in the business couldn't, or wouldn't help me.

I'm still not sure which one it was.

I've had people tell me that it doesn't matter how good you are. If you
don't have the right contacts and don't rub elbows with the right people
you won't make it.

The Peter Pan in me wants to believe that's not true.

But I'm starting to wonder.

And yet...here I am, 25 years later...entering yet another songwriting
contest.

And when the new Songwriter's Digest comes out, I am going to start
sending out songs...yet again.

At what point am I just going to break down and cry in my cornflakes?

See, music has always beens something that I've tucked away under the
bed. I didn't dare REALLY let anybody know how much it meant to me to
just have one song recorded.

I'm not even talking about having a hit record. I'm talking about just
getting one recording artist or band to record one of my songs...even if
it only sells ONE COPY.

This from a guy who has had more IM success than he ever thought he'd
have...especially since, until 2003, IM wasn't even a twinkle in my eye.

And for almost 7 years it has been enough to keep me from reliving my
sadness, day and night, over never getting anywhere with my music.

But even IM couldn't stop the inevitable.

Today, I would give up every dime I have ever made from IM to have
just one song recorded.

I'm 52 years old, and while that isn't old by today's standards, nobody
knows about the future. I don't want to go to my grave having nothing
to show for all those years of toil without giving this at least one more
really serious shot.

So 2010 is going to be the year I devote to my music.

Ironically, I said that I was coming out of retirement, (this past year
was all about the music) but it looks like that's not happening.

If I'm going to die a miserable failure in the music biz then I'm going to
do it going down swinging.

I've got the money now. I'm going to spare no expense to get this done.

I don't know why I'm telling you all this. I don't think anybody here can
possibly imagine how much this means to me. And yeah, I know...I may
just not be talented enough to make it (a reason why some people will
never succeed in IM, but that's another story) but if I'm not, at least I'm
not going to quit.

I'd ask you to say some prayers for me and wish me luck, but the truth is,
none of that matters. This is a miserable, competitive business. I have
no illusions about it one bit. I grew up in an entertainment family. My
great uncle Charlie Wagenheim was a character actor in many shows,
including Gunsmoke and Baretta. My mother was a concert pianist and
an opera singer.

And me...Well, somewhere in the gene pool I got cheated out of their
talent...but got saddled with this great love for music.

Some would say that's about as cruel as it gets.

This is the first time I have really poured my heart out about this
in a very long time. My wife got tired of hearing it (who can blame
her?) and my friends...well...they told me 25 years ago that I
was wasting my time.

Maybe I should have listened to them.

(Of course back then, I REALLY sucked)

Anyway, I'll stop here before I get too depressed.

Here are the 2 additional songs I'm entering besides the ones I've
mentioned above. The lyrics are posted at YouTube if you want to
follow along.


  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    You are a great person and your open heart is the most unique of the skills you have that I know of. Honesty is so hard for most people and I commend you for being genuine. In public yet.

    Remember I am on your side and would never want to hurt your feelings or discourage you (or make you hate me) and so I preface my statements with these comments as I do not want you to misconstrue what I am saying.

    You must want honest feedback, if not I will send you Hallmark.

    I don't see why you don't promote your music to businesses who do commercials - your sound is very commercial, very mainstream and formulaic. (at least these 2 songs)

    While these things could be said and taken in the negative, when we are talking about getting down and being enthralled with our all time favorite songs for infinity, if you look at it from a money/business standpoint none of this is a bad thing.

    When trying to sell something you want to be commercial. You want mainstream. You want bubble gum in Las Vegas.

    Hence, if you go that way, I believe you are on the right path.

    (Let's face it all the punks and anti-establishment geniuses are either broke or dead)

    Sincerely,

    Your friend,

    PaX
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      You are a great person and your open heart is the most unique of the skills you have that I know of. Honesty is so hard for most people and I commend you for being genuine. In public yet.

      Remember I am on your side and would never want to hurt your feelings or discourage you (or make you hate me) and so I preface my statements with these comments as I do not want you to misconstrue what I am saying.

      You must want honest feedback, if not I will send you Hallmark.

      I don't see why you don't promote your music to businesses who do commercials - your sound is very commercial, very mainstream and formulaic. (at least these 2 songs)

      While these things could be said and taken in the negative, when we are talking about getting down and being enthralled with our all time favorite songs for infinity, if you look at it from a money/business standpoint none of this is a bad thing.

      When trying to sell something you want to be commercial. You want mainstream. You want bubble gum in Las Vegas.

      Hence, if you go that way, I believe you are on the right path.

      (Let's face it all the punks and anti-establishment geniuses are either broke or dead)

      Sincerely,

      Your friend,

      PaX
      Thanks for the suggestions. The problem with that part of the business
      is I know nothing about it. There is a whole other way to approach it
      and I don't have the first clue, whereas I do know how to approach
      music publishers for your traditional "slap me on an album" stuff.

      So I'd have to learn a whole new business model.

      After failing at the one I do know for 25 years, that may not be the best
      idea.

      I do have a friend who has a friend who does write music for commercials.
      He's very good at it and really knows the business.

      Anyway, I really appreciate the feedback. Yeah, I know all about the
      broke punkers and everybody else.

      The world is full of broke musicians.
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      • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
        Hey Steve,

        I'm just curious...Are your goals to have a successful song with YOU being the star (for lack of a better word ), or the song being the star.

        In other words, if a different artist than yourself had commercial success with your tune would that still fulfill your goals?

        KJ
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Killer Joe View Post

          Hey Steve,

          I'm just curious...Are your goals to have a successful song with YOU being the star (for lack of a better word ), or the song being the star.

          In other words, if a different artist than yourself had commercial success with your tune would that still fulfill your goals?

          KJ
          OMG, I'm no performer...I'm a songwriter. I send my stuff to publishers
          hoping that they can hook the song up with an established artist.

          One song I wrote back in 1990 was submitted to Crystal Gale. I really
          had my hopes up on that one but no dice.

          Another song I wrote many years later was considered for that group
          that did "Shine" I forget their name off the top of my head. It was either
          Collective Soul or Soul Asylum or something like that.

          That's the closest I've come in 25 years.

          And the 2 songs couldn't be any further apart as far as sound.
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          • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
            OK, so let me axt youse anudder quextion...:p

            If you could pick one or two or more artists to sing your tunes who would they be...?

            KJ
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Killer Joe View Post

              OK, so let me axt youse anudder quextion...:p

              If you could pick one or two or more artists to sing your tunes who would they be...?

              KJ
              That's a hard question to answer.

              See, you need to find an artist that fits the kind of music you write. And
              most people tell me my stuff is very retro...60s and 70s.

              Most of those bands are dead.

              New acts?

              I honestly don't know all of them and there aren't any that I can think of
              off the top of my head who sound like they'd perform my stuff.

              Plus, most rock bands write their own tunes. And very few singers do
              the kind of music that I write.

              That may very well be my biggest problem...matching song to artist.

              And studying current artists is a full time job...something I just don't
              have the time to do AND run a business AND write songs, assuming I
              have nothing currently that anybody today would do.

              I'm waiting for the next edition of the Songwriters Market to come out to
              see what publishers are looking for what type of music.

              In the past, regardless of what I'd send, I'd get the usual "Not what
              we're looking for" back as a reply. Most of these people are too busy to
              send back anything more than a form letter.

              And heaven knows how bad the business is today with the miserable
              economy and labels, more than ever, in no position to take a chance on
              an unknown...artist OR writer.

              The only thing going for me today is the Internet and the number of
              independent publishers and music folk. But again, it's an area I know so
              little about and would have to research it, just like I did when I first
              started IM in 2003.

              Oh what joy THAT was.

              Anyway, I'm going to put everything I have into this next year. I figure
              it will run me a few thousand bucks with all the submissions I'm going to
              be doing between CD costs and postage. But, if even just one lead pans
              out, I'll be happy.

              Yeah, I didn't answer your question...I know.

              Okay, here are a few groups off the top of my head that I love today.

              Jukebox The Ghost
              Weezer
              Muse
              Dave Matthews
              311
              Killers
              Alice In Chains
              Green Day

              All these people write their own songs.

              Good luck getting one of them to look at a tune from Steven Wagenheim
              from New Jersey.

              Hey, at least I still have my sense of humor.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                That's a hard question to answer.

                See, you need to find an artist that fits the kind of music you write.
                Steve.

                I live dead center of a musical mecca in the South....Muscle Shoals, AL.
                The music triangle. Nashville, Memphis, Muscle Shoals.

                We've got musicians, bands, songwriters, etc., coming out the yingyang.

                The songwriters "I" know would've starved years ago if they had been writing for 25 years based on that belief.

                The one thing I know they don't do is try to be all three. (musician, songwriter, band like it appears to me you're doing)

                They grab their guitar (or write it on piano). They write. They throw it to the wind. They keep it SIMPLE.

                Sometimes it flys. Sometimes it don't.

                Here's a guy I've known since elementary school at a songwriters seminar giving his best advice to some aspiring writers. (His parents still wonder when he's going to get a "real" job...lol)

                Scroll down to Walt Aldridge and click play.

                Click play. Songwriting Tips

                Then Google a guy named Mac MacAnally and check out the huge variety of folks who've cut his songs. He's just been nominated for a Grammy for a song he wrote TWENTY YEARS ago.
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by Dave Patterson View Post

                  Steve.

                  I live dead center of a musical mecca in the South....Muscle Shoals, AL.
                  The music triangle. Nashville, Memphis, Muscle Shoals.

                  We've got musicians, bands, songwriters, etc., coming out the yingyang.

                  The songwriters "I" know would've starved years ago if they had been writing for 25 years based on that belief.

                  The one thing I know they don't do is try to be all three. (musician, songwriter, band like it appears to me you're doing)

                  They grab their guitar (or write it on piano). They write. They throw it to the wind. They keep it SIMPLE.

                  Sometimes it flys. Sometimes it don't.

                  Here's a guy I've known since elementary school at a songwriters seminar giving his best advice to some aspiring writers. (His parents still wonder when he's going to get a "real" job...lol)

                  Scroll down to Walt Aldridge and click play.

                  Click play. Songwriting Tips

                  Then Google a guy named Mac MacAnally and check out the huge variety of folks who've cut his songs. He's just been nominated for a Grammy for a song he wrote TWENTY YEARS ago.

                  Dave, thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

                  I hope I haven't given you the wrong idea of how I go about trying to
                  get my stuff recorded.

                  My standard M.O. is to go through the Songwriter's Market and send CDs
                  out to publishers looking for certain kinds of music. The ones that don't
                  accept unsolicited material, I write first.

                  I don't know, nor do I care WHO they submit these songs to for possible
                  inclusion in their catalog. If Tiny Tim (God rest his soul) did one of my
                  songs, I'd be fine with it.

                  What I meant was, trying to target a specific group with a specific song
                  is very hard unless you have a song that absolutely fits their style. And
                  even if you do, most groups only accept submissions through publishers.

                  So I'm back to having to go through channels anyway.

                  In other words, the reason I'm "starving" in the music business is not
                  because I was waiting for just the right person to do my songs.

                  That's just plain stupid.

                  As far as the demos themselves, I have gone from simple piano/voice
                  to full blown productions.

                  Some publishers only accept piano/voice or guitar/voice and others
                  demand full 16 track demos.

                  You do what you're asked to do.

                  Trust me, I am very professional when it comes to this business and give
                  publishers exactly what they want, at least on a technical level.

                  The problem is getting somebody who will give you a real honest evaluation
                  of your work. Most just send back "not what we're looking for."

                  I want to write back and say "Then what the f*** are you looking for"
                  but I don't because I keep it professional.

                  If I lived in Nashville or in New York, I'd have a better chance because
                  I'd be right in the middle of it and would be able to "eyeball" the players.

                  Living in NJ, all I can do is the mail or email thing.

                  And no, I can't travel. My health won't allow it. So I have to do what I
                  can do from my home.

                  And yes, people in the biz have said to me, if you don't get down to
                  Nashville or New York or one of the major cities, you won't make it. There
                  is too much competition.

                  And a few have been honest enough to tell me that my writing needs
                  improving, but that was a long time ago and I think I have improved
                  since then.

                  This coming year will tell for certain...I hope.
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Steve,

              I know you didn't want it, or ask for it, but you drew tears and prayers from me!

              I'm sorry, that's just who & how I am!

              My greatest hope is to see you succeed! I'm rooting for you, just call me your personal pep squad!

              As a matter of fact I love the Vegas song, if it were out, I'd buy it!

              Your friend,
              MissTerraK
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                P.S.
                I think "The Fray" would do great with your Vegas song!

                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  P.S.
                  I think "The Fray" would do great with your Vegas song!

                  Terra
                  The Fray. I've heard of them, but I'm not too familiar with their work. I'll
                  have to go look them up.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
                    Steve,

                    Do you have the MPG3 file of that song WHYDFML you can send me?

                    KJ
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by Killer Joe View Post

                      Steve,

                      Do you have the MPG3 file of that song WHYDFML you can send me?

                      KJ
                      I got MP3s of everything I've done.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
                        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                        I got MP3s of everything I've done.
                        I'm glad you said that because I bet my wife if you didn't I'd clean the house for next six months...:p

                        So...

                        D O...Y O U...H A V E...O N E...Y O U...C A N...S E N D...M E ?

                        Trust me, I'll make it worth your while...

                        KJ
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                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                          Originally Posted by Killer Joe View Post

                          I'm glad you said that because I bet my wife if you didn't I'd clean the house for next six months...:p

                          So...

                          D O...Y O U...H A V E...O N E...Y O U...C A N...S E N D...M E ?

                          Trust me, I'll make it worth your while...

                          KJ
                          Sure, just PM me and tell me where to send it to.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
                            PM sent...

                            KJ
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                Steve,

                I know you didn't want it, or ask for it, but you drew tears and prayers from me!

                I'm sorry, that's just who & how I am!

                My greatest hope is to see you succeed! I'm rooting for you, just call me your personal pep squad!

                As a matter of fact I love the Vegas song, if it were out, I'd buy it!

                Your friend,
                MissTerraK
                "Thank you" for such kind words is so inadequate, but it's all I have
                right now.

                Maybe I'll put together a CD for Warriors and sell it as a WSO.

                Maybe I'll get my $20 fee back.
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                • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  "Thank you" for such kind words is so inadequate, but it's all I have
                  right now.

                  Maybe I'll put together a CD for Warriors and sell it as a WSO.

                  Maybe I'll get my $20 fee back.
                  Yes, do it! I'm in!

                  MissTerraK
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                  • Profile picture of the author Bjarne Eldhuset
                    Here is an online database called Second Hand Songs. It covers information on over 100.000 songs that have been covered.

                    You can search it in a load of different ways.

                    Want to see what songs Weezer have covered?
                    Second Hand Songs - Artist: Weezer

                    If I wanted a band to do a cover of my song, which I really believed would fit their style, I might do the following:

                    Write a letter and put no to address on it. Put your cd + info sheet with an url like for example www.i-want-weezer-to-cover-my-song.info" and an e-mail like firstname.lastname@i-want-weezer-to-cover-my-song.info"

                    Try to find the post address for all members of the band.

                    Write a band members name and address as the return address on each envelope.

                    When you post this, if there is no other valid address than the return address, it should be returned to the sender.

                    Should be able to get it in the hands of some band members this way, and hopefully they would think it was cool.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    I don't enter the contest because I never win anything.

    ... but the other side of me knows 'you can't win if you don't play'

    (i can't win either way)

    I firmly believe in the mother's creed" 'do not do what i do, do what i say'.

    Soooo,

    Don't think of reasons to fail.

    "Winners never quit and quitters never win'

    "Just DO IT"

    I know you will be successful at whatever you do - you know there is another trite cliche' something like 'it's not about winning it is about how you play the game'.

    You are in the game - stay in it - never know where it will take you and if no place think of all the fun you have had getting there!!!

    (and thanks for understanding my comments).
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
    Hmmmm....maybe you need Cap'n Salt.

    There's an email link for Johnny Wyker at the bottom of his page. Contact him. Send him some of your stuff. He may be able to help. He believes EVERYBODY needs a break now and then. And he loves indies....

    At the very least you can probably get some airplay on the Mighty Field of Vision Net Radio. Lot of ears listening to see what he comes up with. Lots of folks know JD Wyker and he knows lots of folks...in the music biz, that is.

    Right now it's the Gritz Hour and they're cranking out some Gov't Mule. Gotta get back to that...http://mightyfieldofvision.com/index.html
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