al gore may want to find somewhere to hide!

20092009

14 years ago

weather channel founder wants to sue al gore for global warming fraud:

Weather Channel Founder Wants To Sue Al Gore For Global Warming Fraud

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Patrician

14 years ago

I agree with your observations.

Along with the Internet, Al Gore also invented Global Warming.

Not to say it is not happening - saying he has sensationalized and exploited it for his own financial gain.

... and come on what was he going to do for an encore.

Just say no.

Pat,

Freezing in Northern California where we don't have seasons much to speak of.

It is COLD!

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

Al Gore is a great American!
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- HeySal 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  Al Gore is a great American!
  
  Um....that was tongue in cheek I presume?
  
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CDarklock

14 years ago

The global warming apologists will say that global "warming" is a misnomer, and it's actually global climate change - which involves greater extremes of temperature in both directions. So your freeze in Florida is, indeed, PROOF that this is really happening!

It's also abnormal changes in weather of any sort. So when there are MORE hurricanes and tornadoes than usual, that's proof! And when there are FEWER than usual... why, that's proof, too!

Always be suspicious of anything that claims evidence in both directions supports their cause.

Also, look for people who have materially changed their behaviour as a result of the findings. When an institution comes out and says "we find that this is true," ask yourself what that means to them. If the findings mean their institution gets more money or can sell more product or otherwise has something to gain, that doesn't make them wrong... but honestly, what else would they say?

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Kay King

14 years ago

It's winter - it's cold - there's snow and ice....and that's news?

The beauty of the argument about global warming is that by the time the truth is revealed, we'll be dead. So both side can argue and fuss and post one link after another to prove they are "right" - and it means very little to anyone else.

You are on one side of the issue - or the other side - or you have better things to worry about.

And I'll give you odds that the same members who posted their stance in the previous dozen threads on the topic....will still feel the same way.

kay

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Patrician

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's winter - it's cold - there's snow and ice....and that's news?

kay

No, Kay. The issue is it is colder, more snow, more rain and oh by the way in places where it almost never snows/freezes. EXTREMES. I hate to see the hot part.

I haven't had my heat on in 10 years and it is on now.

So just maybe we are having a colder than usual winter - and YES IT IS NEWS.

Glad you are experiencing nothing but the same old same old.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

No, Kay. The issue is it is colder, more snow, more rain and oh by the way in places where it almost never snows/freezes. EXTREMES. I hate to see the hot part.

I haven't had my heat on in 10 years and it is on now.

So just maybe we are having a colder than usual winter - and YES IT IS NEWS.

Glad you are experiencing nothing but the same old same old.

I lived in California for over 30 years. I was BORN there. I only moved about 11 years ago. It was HOT in summer and sometimes was COLD in winter.(I am talking about from the ocean to some distance past sherman way from sandiego to thousand oaks) Sometimes cold enough to SNOW! I heard it once snowed for about 10 minutes in VAN NUYS!!!!!!! It didn't stick though. When it was cold enough to snow, it didn't rain. SOMETIMES, there WAS frost. HECK, it snows in PALM SPRINGS, in the arial tramway, even while the other area is like DESERT, complete with joshua trees! Joshua Tree National Park - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it DOES snow regularly in SOME parts of california(big bear, mammoth, etc...). I mentioned the area I referred to because that climate usually IS somewhat stable and not known for snow.

So who knows WHAT the situation is?

Steve

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Patrician

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I lived in California for over 30 years. I was BORN there. I only moved about 11 years ago. It was HOT in summer and sometimes was COLD in winter.(I am talking about from the ocean to some distance past sherman way from sandiego to thousand oaks) Sometimes cold enough to SNOW! I heard it once snowed for about 10 minutes in VAN NUYS!!!!!!! It didn't stick though. When it was cold enough to snow, it didn't rain. SOMETIMES, there WAS frost. HECK, it snows in PALM SPRINGS, in the arial tramway, even while the other area is like DESERT, complete with joshua trees! Joshua Tree National Park - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it DOES snow regularly in SOME parts of california(big bear, mammoth, etc...). I mentioned the area I referred to because that climate usually IS somewhat stable and not known for snow.

So who knows WHAT the situation is?

Steve

All true Steve - However, I live in Northern California 30 miles northeast of San Francisco - I am not in Southern california and not in the mountains. I am at sea level - it is not normal to be this cold.

I am aware it gets very hot in some places and very cold in others. It is not normal for here. "the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco' - now that may be true.

I am freezing. and it's not summer.

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HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

All true Steve - However, I live in Northern California 30 miles northeast of San Francisco - I am not in Southern california and not in the mountains. I am at sea level - it is not normal to be this cold.

I am aware it gets very hot in some places and very cold in others. It is not normal for here. "the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco' - now that may be true.

I am freezing. and it's not summer.

Pat, my sister is right across the windmill field from you in Stockton - and she's from Michigan. She said last year after a cold day there that it had been like that twice since she moved to CA (about 30 yrs ago) - well that was a month ago she said that. Yesterday in an email to me her words were more like #(#&@ @(&)@!%** F*** @*#$^! !*^$(#

LOL - I guess you might figure from it is that even someone who came from MI cold wasn't ready for what is going on in your part of the world right now.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

All true Steve - However, I live in Northern California 30 miles northeast of San Francisco - I am not in Southern california and not in the mountains. I am at sea level - it is not normal to be this cold.

I am aware it gets very hot in some places and very cold in others. It is not normal for here. "the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco' - now that may be true.

I am freezing. and it's not summer.

Ask anyone here. They will tell you that the areas I mentioned are just NOT known for snow. The area I spent most of my life, in fact, is known as the san fernando VALLEY! The mountains are WAY off into the distance.

Steve

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

The global warming apologists will say that global "warming" is a misnomer, and it's actually global climate change - which involves greater extremes of temperature in both directions. So your freeze in Florida is, indeed, PROOF that this is really happening!

It's also abnormal changes in weather of any sort. So when there are MORE hurricanes and tornadoes than usual, that's proof! And when there are FEWER than usual... why, that's proof, too!

Always be suspicious of anything that claims evidence in both directions supports their cause.

Also, look for people who have materially changed their behaviour as a result of the findings. When an institution comes out and says "we find that this is true," ask yourself what that means to them. If the findings mean their institution gets more money or can sell more product or otherwise has something to gain, that doesn't make them wrong... but honestly, what else would they say?

You're right about that. Many say we created MANY MAJOR ice ages. The last one supposedly as recently as 12,800 years ago! Big freeze plunged Europe into ice age in months

And with all this ICE, there won't be any glacial areas for the polarbears! Can you imagine? They may disintigrate! After all, you KNOW polar bears can't survive without intense heat, and they like the glaciers that must require some volcanic action. Oh well, at least the volcanos in Hawaii will survive. It is getting too hot there for them to survive, and the intense cold should help them.

Maybe the whites will all die out because we all need INTENSE heat. I can't stand it myself, but since so many feel I am SO wrong, I must see the world kind of backwards. HEY, maybe I'm BLACK! THAT would explain why I like the cold!

As you can see, I have decided to go along with everyone. Hot means cold, cold means hot, volcano means glacier, glacier means volcano, etc.... Global warming means global cooling, etc... And BECAUSE we had global cool..(er, global warming) before, it must have been OUT fault. I thought the first caucasian homosapien was about 14,000 old. At least that is before the 12,800, even though it is AFTER the 20,000 of the previous ice age.

Maybe cavemen use too much wood for fires or something. I don't think THEY were considered white though.

Steve

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

That goes for both sides in this issue. Look at who is to gain from the deniers side. Look at one of the sources of the OP, Alex Jones. He makes a great living from ridiculous conspiracy theories. Once I see someone quote him I can't really take much of anything from that person seriously.

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Also, look for people who have materially changed their behaviour as a result of the findings. When an institution comes out and says "we find that this is true," ask yourself what that means to them. If the findings mean their institution gets more money or can sell more product or otherwise has something to gain, that doesn't make them wrong... but honestly, what else would they say?

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Killer Joe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

That goes for both sides in this issue. Look at who is to gain from the deniers side. Look at one of the sources of the OP, Alex Jones. He makes a great living from ridiculous conspiracy theories. Once I see someone quote him I can't really take much of anything from that person seriously.

Tim,

If you are trying to say that Al Gore could be trusted more than Alex Jones then I want you to share whatever it is you're smoking with the rest us.

We're going to need to level the playing field here...

KJ

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Alex Jones is an opportunist. Lets put it this way instead: who do I trust more when it comes to science? NASA or Alex Jones. Hmmm. NASA or Alex Jones? Wow, that's a hard one.

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Tim,

If you are trying to say that Al Gore could be trusted more than Alex Jones then I want you to share whatever it is you're smoking with the rest us.

We're going to need to level the playing field here...

KJ

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Killer Joe

14 years ago

Tim,

They're all opportunists. Trying to make the point that one side is the correct one is like trying to say that a given issue is all blck and white.

There is no such animal.

NASA does what it does in order to keep its' funding in place. If they have to fudge things, they fudge it without any thought as to what the truth is. That's the way the world works in those circles.

They have constraints that dictate not to bite the hand that feeds them. They're realists in that sense, even if they have to be or act unreal to accomplish a given goal.

Now, Santa Claus on the other hand...

KJ

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Bill,

NASA is willing to make up facts to get funding? I don't think so. People don't go to NASA to be opportunists. I do agree there are opportunists on both sides, but that doesn't mean all are.

Tim

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Tim,

They're all opportunists. Trying to make the point that one side is the correct one is like trying to say that a given issue is all blck and white.

There is no such animal.

NASA does what it does in order to keep its' funding in place. If they have to fudge things, they fudge it without any thought as to what the truth is. That's the way the world works in those circles.

They have constraints that dictate not to bite the hand that feeds them. They're realists in that sense, even if they have to be or act unreal to accomplish a given goal.

Now, Santa Claus on the other hand...

KJ

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Kay King

14 years ago

Record lows everywhere

Actually, that isn't true. For example, the temperature in Anchorage this morning was reported to be higher than in Atlanta...not normal.

Global "warming" is a misnomer - supposedly that is the end result but in the years leading to it are extremes of weather unusual for the location or time of year in that location. That may be hot or cold, stronger storms, or wet/dry conditions that are at extreme levels.

The argument seems to come down to whether man is contributing to a change in the atmosphere. It gets argued to death - but looking at poisoned streams and smoggy cities, seems like a "duh" question.

What I want to know is why the argument? You have no way to prove your point of view is right - and others can't prove it wrong. Is it just argument in an attempt to be "right"? Really, what's the point of trying to prove anything? You believe the theory or you don't. You'll be right or you'll be wrong...but probably won't still be around to know which it is.

I think it's smart to look at reducing the consumption of the earth's resources, preserving natural forests and wildlife, etc. If global warming is a reality that might add some years to the planet.

If global warming is a farce - we end up with a cleaner, healthier world.
No downside to that.

kay

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

Perhaps Kay, but many seem to be feeling the effects right now. It's worth arguing about if you care about the world you leave your kids and grand kids.

Originally Posted by Kay King

You'll be right or you'll be wrong...but probably won't still be around to know which it is.

kay
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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Actually, that isn't true. For example, the temperature in Anchorage this morning was reported to be higher than in Atlanta...not normal.

Global "warming" is a misnomer - supposedly that is the end result but in the years leading to it are extremes of weather unusual for the location or time of year in that location. That may be hot or cold, stronger storms, or wet/dry conditions that are at extreme levels.

Well, things can get hot or cold, but things HAVE been hotter AND colder in MY lifetime or even earlier!

Originally Posted by Kay King

The argument seems to come down to whether man is contributing to a change in the atmosphere. It gets argued to death - but looking at poisoned streams and smoggy cities, seems like a "duh" question.

I have been arguing that since I was a LITTLE kid! They HAVE gotten MUCH better. But india and china are WORSE than we EVER were! A city in China recently got named the most polluted city in the WORLD!

Originally Posted by Kay King

What I want to know is why the argument? You have no way to prove your point of view is right - and others can't prove it wrong. Is it just argument in an attempt to be "right"? Really, what's the point of trying to prove anything? You believe the theory or you don't. You'll be right or you'll be wrong...but probably won't still be around to know which it is.

I think it's smart to look at reducing the consumption of the earth's resources, preserving natural forests and wildlife, etc. If global warming is a reality that might add some years to the planet.

If global warming is a farce - we end up with a cleaner, healthier world.
No downside to that.

kay

Well, the requirements for the U.S. won't help the world that much, but they WILL hurt the U.S. and hurt it in relation to the rest of the world. Is it TOO much to ask to do stuff that could make the U.S. a LITTLE better with NO cost, and get the REST of the world to meet us in the middle and help the world a LOT!?!? BESIDES, NOW is the time we need to do BETTER financially and technically.

We CAN'T afford to do otherwise. I have said tthis for over 15 years, and nobody listened. WHERE did it get us? TWO major crashes and a WORLD DEPRESSION! I think I mentioned it HERE a bit over a decade ago. I spoke of glass steagle, the G7, greenspan, etc.... I SAID it would lower the dollar! I SAID it could cause a DEPRESSION! I SAID the fed lost its power to control things.

Some may say WELL, greenspan isn't there anymore. BULL!!!!!! The memory REMAINS! That is like in 1999 where the raising of rates BANKRUPTED so many companies, and people mussed that LOWERING the rates didn't bring them back, so raising didn't cause the problem. Well, once the company went bankrupt, it was DEAD! It isn't like you can stab a person, wait until they bleed to death, and are shocked that pulling the knife out doesn't resurrect them. Greenspan lowered rates SO much that it wasn't possible to do anything. Raising rates would hurt credit and could cause MORE bankruptcies. Lowering them wouldn't have helped and now that can't even be tried anyway. So that avenue just isn't available.

Steve

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Killer Joe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Bill,

NASA is willing to make up facts to get funding? I don't think so. People don't go to NASA to be opportunists. I do agree there are opportunists on both sides, but that doesn't mean all are.

Tim

Tim,

I think you need to keep in mind that there are a myriad of levels to any organization the size of NASA.

At the very top of the pyramid are folks charged with keeping the engines stoked. That takes money, and since their funding is subjected to competition from other programs they have almost no choice given the arena they play in but to do everything they need to do to keep the dollars flowing.

This game isn't being played where the rules require them to play 'nice' or 'fair' or any of the other terms we associate with being good honest citizens. They play nasty because their opponants do. If that means using contrived means to accomplish the goals then that's what they'll do. Given the environment they compete in they have no other choice.

Now, if you are thinking the engineers, and the technicians, and the many people that most individuals associate as being NASA when they think of NASA are hard working dedicated honest folks you would be right.

I've worked along side of many people in those trades and professions and I have the highest respect for them. I have also been privy to a few instances where the frustration level for those folks goes through the roof due to political constraints.

I don't harbor any fantasies that only good things happen because the PR people make it look that way.

And this is true of almost any large organization, I'm not making this political, politics happens on all levels of society.

KJ

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Bill,

I am talking about the engineers, technicians, and scientists of NASA. I know for a fact that many of these people can make much more in the private sector.

I know scientists have political and financial pressures because my brother is a scientist who faces these. He told me a long time ago though that he didn't choose his profession because of the chance to make tons of money. Most scientists are the same IMO.

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Now, if you are thinking the engineers, and the technicians, and the many people that most individuals associate as being NASA when they think of NASA are hard working dedicated honest folks you would be right.

I've worked along side of many people in those trades and professions and I have the highest respect for them. I have also been privy to a few instances where the frustration level for those folks goes through the roof due to political constraints.

KJ

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seasoned

14 years ago

And people say "I am political"!? I would like to know even ONE decent thing he truly did. Even people in his own party called him boring and kind of laughed. On second thought, save your breath, especially since HE says it is toxic!

Still, I hope this C&T is KILLED! The US has done enough short term. Heck, I ALREADY have a car that will cost almost as much to replace the A/C as the car is worth. And I put out less freon than my mother did before she was even HALF my age! In a DECADE I drive my car less than many do in a couple years. NO THANKS! Let china and india do what the US has done ALREADY, and THEN we can talk.

Do you know I might even get HURT this year because this city apparently has a NO SALT law! WHY? Because it can hurt the environment. OK, I can live with THAT! A reasonable reason. STILL, I hope they start using more SAND! ALSO, they can start curtailing development, and PLANTING trees!

Let's be an oasis and an example rather than paying other countries to be worse, and going bankrupt. BESIDES, we are one of the biggest consumers in the world. WHY hurt our ability so we NEED imports, and pay others to pollute more to get rich filling those needs! If we make things better HERE, our costs will drop! THEY won't be enticed to send stuff around the world, and they will have less money to pollute!

Steve

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HeySal

14 years ago

JC Steve - WTH are you smoking now? (post 9)

Actually - weather in many places right now is reverted back to the 1972 records. We are getting cold because the sun isn't putting out the radiation expected. Global warming proponents were all expecting their spendy programs to get a boost because this sun cycle was expected to be a record for activity.........and it is.....but it's record in the LACK of activity...and they didn't foresee that comin' .

Oh well - it's a good thing we didn't get all of those major taxes that they wanted to slap on us all because in this kind of cold we need our money for heat. People are dying from this cold as of mid December and that isn't usually the case until close to about right now. This cold could get real nasty very quickly, as if it isn't already.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

JC Steve - WTH are you smoking now?

Actually - weather in many places right now is reverted back to the 1972 records. We are getting cold because the sun isn't putting out the radiation expected. Global warming proponents were all expecting their spendy programs to get a boost because this sun cycle was expected to be a record for activity.........and it is.....but it's record in the LACK of activity...and they didn't foresee that comin' .

Oh well - it's a good thing we didn't get all of those major taxes that they wanted to slap on us all because in this kind of cold we need our money for heat. People are dying from this cold as of mid December and that isn't usually the case until close to about right now. This cold could get real nasty very quickly, as if it isn't already.

Like I said:

"As you can see, I have decided to go along with everyone. Hot means cold, cold means hot, volcano means glacier, glacier means volcano, etc.... Global warming means global cooling, etc... And BECAUSE we had global cool..(er, global warming) before, it must have been OUR fault. "

HEY, if you can beat em, join em, even if it IS INSANE! Think about it, what I said about the polar bears, as I said it, is the only thing that fits their claims!

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Patrician

14 years ago

Yep. That's right Sal.

Stockton is a good area weather-wise. They are inland from us and the weather is hotter and colder. I can actually tolerate their heat because they have some elevation and it is not sticky hot but more of a drier heat than like San Diego for example.

Here on the water we have a lot of fog and wind - love both - i don't feel it when it gets hot because of the water (the town itself gets filthy hot) but then what I call hot is 80 degrees lol. Anything above that I am in agony.

Well at least it was nice to be cold on Christmas! I will never get over this lady in another forum that was in North Dakota. She was trying to acclimate to life in San Diego with her boyfriend.

She said 'There is just something so wrong with Santa Claus in shorts - it's just wrong' - lol. She is having a blast in Minnesota now - they have had some severe weather so her Santa image should be pleased.

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Profit-smart

14 years ago

Part of me wonders if the scientists on board with the threat of Global Warming arent simply pushing it because they know fear is the only way to get the general public rallied behind more environmentally friendly business practices.

I'm all for protecting our planet; its a great gift. On the same token, I'm totally uncertain about the reality of the global warming threat.

The folks like Al Gore cram doom and gloom down our throats; you know "The end is nigh!" type of thing.

From what I understand, we ARE on the path to turning out planet into the next Venus; but were nine or ten thousand years away from that.

The real danger, and what nobody talks about is what I like to call "The Resource Wars"

As peak oil bottoms out, the real danger isnt energy production for transportation and electricity. Its crops; without cheap oil we cant produce the pesticides and fertilizers we use to grow such massive food crops now.

Were also running out of clean drinking water, though I'm uncertain of the cause of this. Record droughts world wide I think.

The immediate danger looming ahead isnt the greenhouse effect; its the hellish wars that will breakout when we start fighting over arable land and drinking water.

the planets climate is prone to change; we have heating and warming periods recorded all through our history. It *does* change things, and people do die. The problem I believe, is that we now have 6 billion people; and with those numbers the die off couldnt even be compared to whats happened in that past.

As a species though, we will survive. What that society looks like though, is questionable. I have pretty good feeling were going to get sent backwards a few thousand years in technological progress.

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Patrician

14 years ago

Hey, Gag Me With a Spoon!

Steve Seasoned is a Valley Guy!?!

Who woulda thunk.

Well. I guess we are agreeing to agree - sorry I got defensive there (imagine that) and didn't read your post right.

Bottomline - it is still cold - I have on leggings, long skirt, velour shirt, socks and slippers. Just traded my blazer for a fake fur full-length coat. I look something like a black bear. This is in the house with the heat on.

It is hard to fathom global warming at this juncture.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

Hey, Gag Me With a Spoon!

Steve Seasoned is a Valley Guy!?!

Who woulda thunk.

Well. I guess we are agreeing to agree - sorry I got defensive there (imagine that) and didn't read your post right.

Bottomline - it is still cold - I have on leggings, long skirt, velour shirt, socks and slippers. Just traded my blazer for a fake fur full-length coat. I look something like a black bear. This is in the house with the heat on.

It is hard to fathom global warming at this juncture.

Well, I MIGHT say like a LITTLE to much, but I am NO moon zappa. I have a better voice and try to be more proper.

Hey, a LOT of girls wore leggings when I was there and much younger. For some reason, I liked the way they looked. SKIRT? Can't be TOO cold! 8-)

Steve

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20092009

14 years ago

The bottom line is this...

Naturally the earth has warm seasons and cold seasons, im not talking about summer and winter, im talking about large periods of off time where the temperature is up or down, that is very normal.

In fact, it is fact, and agreed on that the icy caps on earth grow and shrink with the icy caps on the earths. right now the ice caps on MARS are also smaller then normal ( or what we call normal ). what does that mean? That means other planets are having the same amount of warming that we are having, hint: warming is controled by the sun, NOT co2.

ALSO, did you know there are MORE scientist ( real ones ) that believe agents global warming ( caused by co2 and things like that ) then there are scientist that believe in global warming?

Now I have wrote nothing but facts... Those facts happen to show global warming to be a joke.

Here are a few more things for you guys to read up on about this subject.

Al Gore Admits CO2 Does Not Cause Majority Of Global Warming

Science According to Al Gore: Earth Interior “Millions of Degrees”

Al Gore Set To Become First “Carbon Billionaire”

Weather Channel Founder to Sue Al Gore

Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

I have a TON more articals .... Ill post them later.. to the GYM!

PLEASE REMEMBER TO NOT INVOLVE POLITICS IN THIS THREAD! Thanks

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

The bottom line is you buy anything Alex Jones says hook, line and sinker.

Originally Posted by 20092009

The bottom line is this...

I have a TON more articals ....

I'm sure you do.

PLEASE REMEMBER TO NOT INVOLVE POLITICS IN THIS THREAD! Thanks

Sure, it's not political. That's why I can say that Sarah Palin is a fraud since she agrees with you.
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HeySal

14 years ago

Tim - the money Gore stands to make off warming and you don't see him as an opportunist?

Neither Gore nor Jones should be our go to guys for SCIENCE. NASA is currently funded by an agenda - but the truth is coming out and even those on the agenda payroll just kinda "slip" and let us know they are being edited now an again. I've seen NASA say things and two days later you can't find it again. Their scientists speak past the edits and you never see them working again in the field unless it's in little out of the way concerns - funded privately.

Ya wanna know what's going on? Go to the SOURCE. The experts who actually climb around on the Himalayas say that the rate of recession is far less - FAR less than the IPCC reports indicate and they aren't one damned bit worried about them. The guys that are out physically monitoring the polar bears say that only 2 packs are having problems and the rest are actually FLORISHING - it's the green charities that get money for areas of concern that seem to support the idea they are in trouble generally. And many - many - many more climatologists will say there is not anything like warming going on than there are that will say it and those that do are connected to the IPCC.

Now THAT is where we should be looking - not at politicians, not at conspiracy theorists -- go to the source.

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When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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HeySal

14 years ago

We CAN'T clean up the planet enough right now because the population is too high - you can't go back to natural and support the needs of almost 7 bil. people - we were warned about this a long time ago and refused to listen.

Also - warming was named because it gave an excuse to get into our wallets even deeper. Now they say that warming produces cold. BS - warming produces warming - cooling produces cold. That's why they changed "warming" to "climate CHANGE". Every symptom going on right now is pointing to cooling. The peak year of warming was 1998. The last century has been a very nice break from the cold other than a few years here and there.

However -- we are doing MAJOR damage to the planet no matter what the damned weather is doing. It should just be prohibited in this day and age to make plastic dishes, bottles, bags, etc. We already KNOW they are toxic - so why are we producing them? Many countries are daming up production of plastic bags - I'm waiting to see a return to glass bottles as well. Toxins need to be taken out of water - instead they are still dumping them in. 40 million people in the US alone are drinking toxic water - way beyond what reports show or chemicals they even test for, but industry is still allowed to dump the crap. IT's even encouraged to dump silica/sodium fluoride in water in one of the biggest health ruses ever. That isn't natural (calcium/magnesium) fluoride your drinking and it's so toxic industry isn't ALLOWED to dump it anywhere - so they make us drink the **** and probably weren't too happy when investigation showed the fluoride tested and the stuff dumped is two different animals.

Look at pharmaceuticals that leech into water - you are drinking other people's meds - at small doses, but what's it doing to your health to ingest them several times daily? Where is the push to clean this crap up? It's killing and mutating fish and rendering them inedible, yet there doesn't seem to be concern about cleaning it up no matter how many damages are caused to the planet or how many people are hospitalized and die each year as a direct result of the pollution. Same thing can be said for the air. We're supposed to believe that C02 is a problem when we're spewing carbon monoxide and other industrial (large molecule) pollutants into the air?

Crap -- it's just like the stinking fall of Rome when all the rich had piped in water --- long before they knew that lead pipes were poisonous, the rulers drank the poison water, went nuts and still were ruling -- and it all fell apart.
And here we are in 2010 drinking, breathing, and eating every poison known to man plus several we've been able to think up all on our own. And our leaders are no longer any saner than to try to hoist C02 hoaxes off on us as a way to achieve globally unioned power and taxes.

Freakin' Timber.

As far as if they were REALLY worried about Warming,

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When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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20092009

14 years ago

Tim. I think you are dealing with other problems or something and felt like being a little ugly...

Those info wars articles... I figured out that's where the "Alex jones" came from... Ya, you can pick that up with a simple Google search... pretty simple.... Here let me show you how: Let me google that for you

Now when you do that you'll also find some other videos, articles, news sources, scientists, just... TOTALLY BOGUS things like that ( bogus, I don't think so )

Now for what ever reason you have something agents this info wars dude, I don't know but its not just that website, its everywhere.

Now stop being a baby and believing everything your told and do some research yourself. If there is one thing this business will teach you, that is one of them.

Kay king... It can be proven, and it is proven. Its just not getting out. And it makes so much seance. did you ever wonder who owned the media networks and controls what you hear and dont hear.... wait wait wait.... have you? have you? Have you wondered who they are or what there agenda is.... If you want PROOF, then look for it, it will not be handed to you. But its there.

Now should we cut down on co2 and stuff like that? WHY NOT! But is it global warming... NO.

Come on people! You guys should be the smart people!

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

Sounds good. Then why the big deal then if you agree to fight CO2. Glad to see you agree.

Originally Posted by 20092009

Now should we cut down on co2 and stuff like that? WHY NOT! But is it global warming... NO.
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- 20092009 14 years ago
  
  Your puting words in my mouth... To clear it up... its almost exactly what HeySal said.
  
  Nothing more.
  
  Also... Do you really think that Al Gore needs clearance from NASA to post pictures and what not?
  
  No way! Its called photo shop... Its called just doing it. Do you think nasa really cares or has the time to try to fight it. They probably think, O, its fine, what harm is it going to make.... Really I bet they have never gotten that far becuase they are not policing him, he was teh VP of the country!
  
  BUT, the main thing that's wrong with your whole nasa idea is this... He does not use nasa very much ( or at all ).. he uses this other place in Europe.
  
  To clear this up... I want the co2 trash to be realized and never have it effect my money becuase its bogus.
  
  ALSO, I dont know if you noticed or not, BUT, those were not just articles that infowars ( this alex jones guy) made up, there were OTHER LINKS in those articles... In case you did not notice.
  
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  TimPhelan 14 years ago
  
  Yeh, that's my point. It isn't just Al Gore against everyone. Somehow he has become that figurehead, but he is only one small part. He didn't invent the internet and he didn't start the research on global warming. It's been going on for decades, including by organizations such as NASA.
  
  Originally Posted by 20092009
  
  BUT, the main thing that's wrong with your whole nasa idea is this... He does not use nasa very much ( or at all ).. he uses this other place in Europe.
  
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  TimPhelan 14 years ago
  
  I quoted you. haha. How's that putting words in your mouth?
  
  Originally Posted by 20092009
  
  Your puting words in my mouth...
  
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TimPhelan 14 years ago

Here 200920092009, let me google something for you:

Let me google that for you

Originally Posted by 20092009

. Here let me show you how: Let me google that for you
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Steven Rayne

14 years ago

There is a video on youtube of our options. A 'global warming quadrant'

The choices are.

Do nothing to prevent climate change = The world doesn't end
Do nothing to prevent climate change = The world ends

Do what we can to prevent climate change = We waste billions of $
Do what we can to prevent climate change = We save the world

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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Rayne

There is a video on youtube of our options. A 'global warming quadrant'

The choices are.

Do nothing to prevent climate change = The world doesn't end
Do nothing to prevent climate change = The world ends

Do what we can to prevent climate change = We waste billions of $
Do what we can to prevent climate change = We save the world

BUT, shouldn't the choices really be...

Do nothing to prevent climate change, and climate change is real = The world doesn't end
Do nothing to prevent climate change, and climate change isn't real = The world doesn't end
Do nothing to prevent climate change, and climate change is real = The world ends from climate change
Do nothing to prevent climate change, and climate change isn't real = The world ends from something else besides climate change

Do what we can to prevent climate change, and climate change is real = We invest billions of $
Do what we can to prevent climate change, and climate change isn't real = We waste billions of $
Do what we can to prevent climate change, and climate change is real = We don't save the world because it's such a big problem anyway
Do what we can to prevent climate change, and climate change isn't real = We don't save the world, because it didn't really need saving

Do the wrong things to prevent climate change, and climate change is real = We destroy the planet even sooner with our meddling ways
Do the wrong things to prevent climate change, and climate change isn't real = We may not destroy the planet sooner, but we may make it worse

Now, don't assume you know my stance on the issue based on the above. I'm only pointing out that the section I quoted pre-supposes climate change is real - and maybe it is - but that doesn't prove the other side is wrong. It only proves that there was extreme bias when the author made their presentation.

Also, even giving them the benefit of the doubt, at the very least they have done nothing more than set up a series of false dichotomies.

I will freely admit that I also resorted to false dichotomies, I only used more of them. It's not as black and white as most people think, and whenever either "side" (even that word is suggests a false dichotomy) treats it as an "either/or" proposition, then they lose the ability to get people to listen to what they're trying to say.

All the best,
Michael

p.s. Again, the above is not meant to point out my beliefs on the subject, but rather as a brief exercise in something known as logic.

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Michael Mayo

14 years ago

It's OK for NASA to launch a rocket and spu 2,000,000 pounds of Freon into the air but
I can't have 1 can of R12 to put into my car in order to get the air conditioner to work.

Go figure!

~*MM*~

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Killer Joe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

It's OK for NASA to launch a rocket and spu 2,000,000 pounds of Freon into the air but
I can't have 1 can of R12 to put into my car in order to get the air conditioner to work.

Go figure!

~*MM*~

Michael, they don't use freon anymore now that the cold war is over.

KJ

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Michael Mayo 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Michael, they don't use freon anymore now that the cold war is over.

KJ

Um, That must be the real reason they tore down the wall then?

~*MM*~
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20092009

14 years ago

Great... we are finding some common ground Tim

"global warming deniers debunked"... that was harsh! lol... have you ever investigated that stuff for your self? Your in for a treat! Go ahead... do it!

Aren'tyou starting to see what we are saying here... Warming and cooling is NATURAL and caused by the SUN. Not co2.

Your main guy you have brought up with the "global warming deniers debunked" thing is Sen. James M. Inhofe... Do you know who he is? He is a member of the builder berg group... a private group that is screwed ( An under statement to say the least ) here is proof encase you did not believe me: Global warming conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, you brought up 400 scientists that have said global warming was true... Have you seen my 3100 scientists that say it is false?

Here are some links talking about the 3100 scientists that say its bogus! ( Why have you not heard about this in the news?) Weird!... Here you go ( and these are non alex jones'ee links for you

)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...l-warming.html

ESR | May 26, 2008 | Over 31,000 U.S. scientists deny man-made global warming

.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Press Room :.

Mommy Life: How to Fix Congress - Congressional Reform Act of 2010

Over 31,000 U.S. Scientists Deny Man-Made Global Warming, BY: DENNIS T. AVERY | Center for Global Food Issues

Re: 3100 SCIENTIST SAID THIS WEEK "YOU ARE WRONG" - In The News

<I>Hundreds</i> of scientists reject global warming

Living in Peru Features : Opportunity knocks, again, in the Andes

WattHead - Energy News and Commentary: Global Warming Deniers...Denied.

--> Barnes: "Obama ought to recognize that the science" of climate change "is in dispute" | Media Matters for America

The Epic Case Against Man-Made Global Warming - Vox

The Northwest Passage | MetaFilter

The Great Global warming swindle - INTJ Forum

Aright... that should do it for now... That was just a quick google search....

Let me google that for you and Let me google that for you

I could go on and on.. And seance you don't like the infowars guys, I did not include any of them for you

... Those links are great reads people you should read them.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by 20092009

Your main guy you have brought up with the "global warming deniers debunked" thing is Sen. James M. Inhofe... Do you know who he is? He is a member of the builder berg group... a private group that is screwed ...

OK, now you are really confused. Inhofe is a denier like you. Do you read the links you post?

Now, you brought up 400 scientists that have said global warming was true...

Umm, no I didn't bring that up. I know it's much more than 400 scientists though. Plus the 31,000 scientists crap was brought up here and other places a few years ago. It's BS. It's from 1998 and is bunk. Do a little research and know what you are talking about.

The petition was so misleading that the National Academy issued a news release stating:

"The petition project was a deliberate attempt to mislead scientists and to rally them in an attempt to undermine support for the Kyoto Protocol. The petition was not based on a review of the science of global climate change, nor were its signers experts in the field of climate science."

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20092009

14 years ago

Here you go... this is also a great link... check this one out:

30,000 Scientist Sue Al Gore For Global Fraud: No Global Warming - NASA: Planet Cooling Since 2003 Political Vel Craft

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20092009

14 years ago

Alright guys... I stand corrected.... 3100 is corect... but not totally.... the real number is 30,000 scientist who have SIGNED saying they will be invaulved in a lawsuit agents this stuff... 9,000 of them have phd's.

Also, you know how I said it was natural for there to be warmer and cooler periods of time ( not seasons like summer and winter ) The source of that comes from the seasons on the sun... the SUN has warmer and colder seasons called a solar cycle. That's why mars and other planets ice caps grow and shrink with the earths.

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Michael Ellis

14 years ago

Al Gore is an embarrassment to this country and to himself. He routinely talks about everyone doing what they can to conserve energy and live a "greener" lifestyle yet jets his way around the country collecting HUGE sums of cash spewing 'world doom' BS.

Take a look at his lifestyle and ask yourself just what the hell has he be doing to integrate a more "greener" way of living into his life... well, besides the massive amounts of green money he deposits in his back.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

I just saw an article which shocked me about Al Gore. He is a fraud! He was caught trying to increase global warming .... well here's from the article:

Dozens of eyewitness reports indicated that former vice president Al Gore deliberately attempted to raise the earth's temperature in order to boost box office receipts for An Inconvenient Truth, his documentary film about global warming....

"We have accounts from concerned citizens that Mr. Gore purchased a Cadillac Escalade SUV several months before [his film] opened in theaters," said Kimberly Blume, spokeswoman for the California-based environmental group Friends Of The Earth. "Not only did Mr. Gore use his new gas-guzzler to make short trips to the grocery store, he also left the vehicle running 24 hours a day in the driveway of his Tennessee home with the air-conditioning on full-blast."...

In the weeks following the film's release, witnesses reported additional sightings of Gore engaging in activities such as discharging can after can of 1980s-era, CFC-laden aerosol into the air, and single-handedly clear-cutting over 6,000 acres of Amazon rain forest.

Gore is also rumored to have set a four-acre tire fire outside Akron, OH, and ordered his Secret Service detail to shoot on sight anyone who attempts to put it out....

By year's end, Gore failed to slow his assault on the planet's delicately balanced climate systems. Satellite surveillance revealed what many believe to be a snowshoed Gore jumping up and down on an ice shelf in Greenland, chainsawing glaciers in the Alaskan wild, and urinating in the Gulf Stream waters off the coast of Newfoundland.

Read the rest of the story here:

Al Gore Caught Warming Globe To Increase Box Office Profits | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

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Kay King

14 years ago

20092009 - (do you realize you are now out of date?)

Actually "climate change" is a better term - because the change would not be uniform around the globe. And yes it could be changes in both directions as areas with the most drastic atmospheric conditions at either end of the hot/cold spectrum would show change first.

It can be proven, and it is proven. Its just not getting out. And it makes so much seance. did you ever wonder who owned the media networks and controls what you hear and dont hear.... wait wait wait.... have you? have you? Have you wondered who they are or what there agenda is.... If you want PROOF, then look for it, it will not be handed to you. But its there.

I don't look for proof on blogs and on youtube - and I don't waste time blasting gore. One person isn't going to make a damned bit of difference in this end game.

My opinion is based on reading research info provided by friends of mine - people I used to work with years ago. They are Ph.D.'s who teach environmental studies and scientists who have read - and understand - the studies on both sides of the issue and have worked on some of the studies....from a son who is a meteorologist and ran weather studies in Alaska and Hawaii for 16 years and from a theoretical physicist ex-husband.

I looked into climate change before it became a buzzword and have kept up with most recent research, too. I was interested - still am. And, honestly, anyone who doesn't understand how media works these days is a twit.

Being in the OT doesn't mean people who frequent this section are uninformed or uneducated. There are many brains much more educated than mine who hang out "down here". Being witty is good - but you need practice with that.

And it makes so much seance.

So, it's like, uh...reaching, like, way out?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

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seasoned

14 years ago

Tim,

You know as well as I do that the onion is owned by a huge chinese communist conglomerate! So IT'S A COMMUNIST PLOT to make us look ridiculous, etc...
THEY ADMITTED IT some time last year, and EVEN told the radio media.

Yeah, I KNOW they make fun by twisting the truth, etc... But they DID say that. So I guess you can't believe things there at all.

Steve

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

LOL. Steve, I can't tell if you are serious here. You do realize that was satire also right?

The Onion is great!

Originally Posted by seasoned

Tim,

You know as well as I do that the onion is owned by a huge chinese communist conglomerate! So IT'S A COMMUNIST PLOT to make us look ridiculous, etc...
THEY ADMITTED IT some time last year, and EVEN told the radio media.

Yeah, I KNOW they make fun by twisting the truth, etc... But they DID say that. So I guess you can't believe things there at all.

Steve

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seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

LOL. Steve, I can't tell if you are serious here. You do realize that was satire also right?

The Onion is great!

I said "Yeah, I KNOW they make fun by twisting the truth, etc..."! YEP, I know! Even their statement that they were bought by a major chinese(what was it, a noodle company) was declared to be a joke.

Steve
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Michael Motley

14 years ago

You guys do realize that 'global warming' doesnt mean that the planet just starts getting warmer overnight right? The weather or cycle of weather patterns on the planet doesnt work like that.

People forget the previous years of warm christmas days in the north, unseasonably hot temps, hurricane seasons in the last few years when we had a month a month of hurricanes every single weekend, but the weather doesnt just pick a direction and go, usually its a 'give and take' kind of thing.

For instance, remember when el Nino was all over the news, then the next year it was practically the opposite weather and everyone was like 'oh el nino is such b.s.' and had they actually paid attention to things like farmer's almanacs or even the weather channel, they would see that the flip side of el nino was el nina. It came in cycles. Then the next year, we were under the influence of el nino again

I dont think that global warming is going to kill us tomorrow, but i also dont think that 1 year of snow suddenly means that the previous years of temp change were just flukes and that the temp of this planet isnt changing....and we're helping it along.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

You guys do realize that 'global warming' doesnt mean that the planet just starts getting warmer overnight right? The weather or cycle of weather patterns on the planet doesnt work like that.

People forget the previous years of warm christmas days in the north, unseasonably hot temps, hurricane seasons in the last few years when we had a month a month of hurricanes every single weekend, but the weather doesnt just pick a direction and go, usually its a 'give and take' kind of thing.

For instance, remember when el Nino was all over the news, then the next year it was practically the opposite weather and everyone was like 'oh el nino is such b.s.' and had they actually paid attention to things like farmer's almanacs or even the weather channel, they would see that the flip side of el nino was el nina. It came in cycles. Then the next year, we were under the influence of el nino again

I dont think that global warming is going to kill us tomorrow, but i also dont think that 1 year of snow suddenly means that the previous years of temp change were just flukes and that the temp of this planet isnt changing....and we're helping it along.

Even if my memory were BAD, we have HISTORY! It isn't the most extreme and certainly not the first. EL nina? What does THAT mean? I mean I NOW la nina means the little girl, but EL nina? Forgive the lack of a tilde.

But HEY, you think the US is the sole, or even most major, cause? You're DREAMING!

Steve

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Even if my memory were BAD, we have HISTORY! It isn't the most extreme and certainly not the first. EL nina? What does THAT mean? I mean I NOW la nina means the little girl, but EL nina? Forgive the lack of a tilde.

But HEY, you think the US is the sole, or even most major, cause? You're DREAMING!

Steve

Nobody said the U.S. is the sole cause, your meds are wearing off again.

'global warming' is part of a cycle of the planet, and yeah, its real. Common sense tells you when the ice in your glass is melting that your drink is getting warmer. Well the ice in our glass (the polar caps) is melting and we are helping it along at a more accelerated rate than ever before thanks to industrialization.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Nobody said the U.S. is the sole cause, your meds are wearing off again.

'global warming' is part of a cycle of the planet, and yeah, its real. Common sense tells you when the ice in your glass is melting that your drink is getting warmer. Well the ice in our glass (the polar caps) is melting and we are helping it along at a more accelerated rate than ever before thanks to industrialization.

Most people find that the ice in their glass melts. it doesn't mean the room is getting any warmer! It doesn't even mean the drink is!

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Most people find that the ice in their glass melts. it doesn't mean the room is getting any warmer! It doesn't even mean the drink is!

the only people that come to those types of conclusions are the kind of people that have deep conversations with their socks or spend a good portion of their day contemplating their bellybutton.

meanwhile the rest of the world knows why the ice melts.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

the only people that come to those types of conclusions are the kind of people that have deep conversations with their socks or spend a good portion of their day contemplating their bellybutton.

meanwhile the rest of the world knows why the ice melts.

If you put ice in a drink, the ice starts to melt, faster, and the drink gets COLDER! You could LOWER the temperature of the room maybe 30 degrees and the ice would STILL melt! You could put the drink in a refrigerator, and the ice would STILL melt!

Cold is REALLY an absence of heat. The ice almost tries to absorb the heat around it, making it warmer, and melting, as other things get colder. GRANTED, you can lower the environment to 32f, or 0c, and freeze the ice back BUT, UNTIL YOU DO, everything is trying to reach the same temperature, and the ice will melt.

I REST MY CASE! 8-)

Steve

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Lawrh

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

If you put ice in a drink, the ice starts to melt, faster, and the drink gets COLDER! You could LOWER the temperature of the room maybe 30 degrees and the ice would STILL melt! You could put the drink in a refrigerator, and the ice would STILL melt!

Cold is REALLY an absence of heat. The ice almost tries to absorb the heat around it, making it warmer, and melting, as other things get colder. GRANTED, you can lower the environment to 32f, or 0c, and freeze the ice back BUT, UNTIL YOU DO, everything is trying to reach the same temperature, and the ice will melt.

I REST MY CASE! 8-)

Steve

AKA the Law of Conservation of Mass/Energy

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seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lawrh

AKA the Law of Conservation of Mass/Energy

Well HEY, we keep talking about people breaking laws, who listens to them! 8-)
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Kay King 14 years ago

Because we are limited in our visions (as a society) to what affects us now we propose some rather stupid solutions.

I've seen "mitigation" at work on the coast when it involves wetlands. What happens is this:

Developer wants to destroy an area of wetlands that is teeming with wildlife that provides crucial support of the natural environment. He applies to "mitigate" and pays a fee. Then he is usually allowed to set aside land in another area for replacement of the wetland.

Of course that other land used to "mitigate" may be barren, rocky, dry, inland and have no wildlife population. But the wetland area is still destroyed.

The "carbon" proposals now being thrown out remind me of the protection of the wetlands...

Why don't we promote building earth bermed homes in extreme temperature areas of the country? I toured a bermed hom and was impressed. A huge wall of triple insulated windows faced south - lots of light. No A/C system needed, only a ventilation system. The only heat required is to raise the temperature about 15 degrees even in the coldest part of winter. Cheap property insurance, no exterior maintenance as you just mow your "roof".

We put ugly oil platforms in the Gulf but balk at windmill fields place there. We know solar heat works extremely well in some areas of the country but provide little support to expand the products and reduce the initial cost.

There is an unwillingness to consider any efforts to conserve that don't include the possibility of massive profit to some company or person. We let greed and technology override common sense.

It's what we do.
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al gore may want to find somewhere to hide!

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