Airport Scanners

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Did anyone else watch the show last night about the airport scanners? I dont fly all that much, but I can't say that I'm all that excited to basically be strip seached on vid, personally I think these things go a little too far.

Anyone else have a problem with pretty much being nude for the viewing pleasure of tsa agents?

Well, I had an argument with some IDIOT at a hospital(He was supposedly their one and only EXPERT. He was a foreigner, spoke english poorly, and his accent was PAINFUL!). He said CT scanners couldn't be miscalibrated and were ALWAYS safe. This was like 1 week AFTER another hospital found that THEIR CT scanners were misscalibrated and caused IRREPARABLE harm to MANY patients! Some lost their KIDNEYS! It was in the NEWS! A month later, my mother calls and is SCARED because she is STILL hearing about this on the news, and knows I get CT scans every year.

THAT is what I have the BIGGEST problem with. And I get scanned at least once a year. It is SUPPOSED to be ONCE, but this year they scanned me THREE times(and wanted me to pay almost $2000 for the pleasure(sarc)), and then I had an accident so they scanned me AGAIN! Are the machines calibrated right!?!? WHO KNOWS! If they want me to pay the $1800+ dollars, they may end up on the news! Maybe the reporters(It's news worthy), Attorneys general(It is a scam and malpractice), FDA(Regards a medical device and misuse), FTC(scam/fraud), etc... can find out.

One more thing, this would have to be a CT scanner. MRI is too sensitive to metal, and would probably self destruct. So THAT is why I mention this stuff HERE.

ALSO, I have some artificial parts, and wire ties on my rib cage. I think THAT means I can't get an MRI, and if their machine is thorough enough, what will they do with THAT?

Steve

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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Did anyone else watch the show last night about the airport scanners? I dont fly all that much, but I can't say that I'm all that excited to basically be strip seached on vid, personally I think these things go a little too far.

Anyone else have a problem with pretty much being nude for the viewing pleasure of tsa agents?

I think the phrase "viewing pleasure" doesn't apply to most of the people they'll be screening.

Also, I heard any passengers can opt to be patted down instead of scanned.

Anyway, people can always take the bus.

~Michael

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I don't think the phrase "viewing pleasure" doesn't apply to most of the people they'll be screening.

Also, I heard any passengers can opt to be patted down instead of scanned.

Anyway, people can always take the bus.

~Michael

People dont always have the option of taking the bus.

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Forest_Parks

14 years ago

I'm actually a bit shocked about a few comments on this thread....

I don't really care too much about being scanned, clothes are a human construct anyway and they don't make us anymore civilised than apes. That does not mean that I like being naked but if that's how they want to try and make the masses feel more secure, i'll deal with it.

Ok now onto the comments I don't much like.... First off let me state that I am not aligned with any religion or country and I see good and bad in each and every one of these.

Firstly Seasoned said "(He was supposedly their one and only EXPERT. He was a foreigner, spoke english poorly, and his accent was PAINFUL!)"

Being a foreigner and him being a bad expert should not be in the same sentence. Maybe he did have poor English and maybe he is a bad expert but they are very unrelated things..... Just pointing that out that it didn't really need to be brought up about his ethnicity.....

Now the thing that really got me..... Andie said something I think is completly misguided and racist....

"I say, et's move on from strip searching costs, etc etc and just schedule 'muslim only' plane rides; then if they want to jones for blowing people up it is only ones who share their beliefs instead of the innocent folks"

Well.... you obviously don't have a very good grasp on the religion of Islam here.... I won't assume you are Christian but I will assume you are aware of Christianity. Well the Ku Klux Klan claimed to be doing the work of God and the Bible but no one ever decided that a war on Christianity was inline to get rid of the lynching B**stards.

The majority of Muslims do not share the belief of the few terrorists that are carrying out these horrible acts and if you ever get time to read the Koran you will realise it's an extremely peaceful book.

I currently live in Cairo by the way and most people here are very upset with the way many American's denounce them as terrorists or believing in terrorist views without knowing anything about the situation.

I suggest you do some research before making such absurd "racist" comments.

I apologise if it was just sarcasm!!

On a side note the security measures may be a bit far fetched: The True Odds of Airborne Terror Chart - Odds of Airborne Attacks - Gizmodo

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Forest_Parks

Well.... you obviously don't have a very good grasp on the religion of Islam here.... I won't assume you are Christian but I will assume you are aware of Christianity. Well the Ku Klux Klan claimed to be doing the work of God and the Bible but no one ever decided that a war on Christianity was inline to get rid of the lynching B**stards.

The majority of Muslims do not share the belief of the few terrorists that are carrying out these horrible acts and if you ever get time to read the Koran you will realise it's an extremely peaceful book.

When we start having planes taken over by klansmen and flown into buildings, or klansmen start strapping bombs to their crotches and bringing down planes, or klansmen in the officer ranks of the military start turning weapons on their own troops, then what you're saying may be valid.

But at this point in time..its not klansmen its Muslims.

And while all muslims are not terrorists, at this point, all the terrorists are muslims and until you start passing out the special glasses that make it possible to tell the extremist muslims from the 'we all just want to get along' muslims on sight, the safest option is to err on the side of caution.

Right now the only way you can tell the extremist muslim from the non-extremist is one of them explodes, the other doesnt and by that time, its too late.

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Forest_Parks 14 years ago

I have a longer answer for this to come later, but just a quick question? How can you tell a Muslim on sight?
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- Andie 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Forest_Parks
  
  I have a longer answer for this to come later, but just a quick question? How can you tell a Muslim on sight?
  
  You cannot..neither can I...and you are right, I put that very badly. Nobody looking at Tim McVeigh would have thought anything but pure American.
  As he was --when he blew up the OKC bldg.
  
  There are far-gone folks everywhere and I guess that is why the :masses: of people have to jump through excessive loops to think we are protecting ourselves from them.
  
  Andie
  
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Kay King

14 years ago

Can we please avoid arguing about religion? It's not allowed here for good reason.

What I see on the news is a knee jerk reaction similar to other knee jerk reactions ad stupid procedures implemented in the past few years.

Every terrorist attempt results in new equipment being suggested, billions more spent. Currently the big push is for "full body scans" - and no one mentions that men are given a shield to insert before the scan -and that shield would have hidden this last idiot's "stuff".

Maybe what we need is a "fly list" instead of a "no fly" list?? That was sort of implemented a while back but have heard nothing more about it. We end up with some really stupid things - like the Joan Rivers incident where people were ignorant of what "a/k/a" refers to.

The problem with the information age we're in is that info is only as good as the people who interpret and link it. It's so easy to go back and say we should have known this and this because the data was there. Not so easy to link data from multiple sources before an event.

Great weakness in linking info - and that won't be solved with more equipment that slows down travelers. All the focus is on airport security - but where is the outcry about a system that doesn't even cancel open visas of those on the lists of "people to watch"?

kay

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Andie

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Can we please avoid arguing about religion? It's not allowed here for good reason.

What I see on the news is a knee jerk reaction similar to other knee jerk reactions ad stupid procedures implemented in the past few years.

Every terrorist attempt results in new equipment being suggested, billions more spent. Currently the big push is for "full body scans" - and no one mentions that men are given a shield to insert before the scan -and that shield would have hidden this last idiot's "stuff".

Maybe what we need is a "fly list" instead of a "no fly" list?? That was sort of implemented a while back but have heard nothing more about it. We end up with some really stupid things - like the Joan Rivers incident where people were ignorant of what "a/k/a" refers to.

The problem with the information age we're in is that info is only as good as the people who interpret and link it. It's so easy to go back and say we should have known this and this because the data was there. Not so easy to link data from multiple sources before an event.

Great weakness in linking info - and that won't be solved with more equipment that slows down travelers. All the focus is on airport security - but where is the outcry about a system that doesn't even cancel open visas of those on the lists of "people to watch"?

kay

Exactly Kay...which is why I say we are all jumping through hoops based on nobody being able to say, hey here is a guy with no passport at all so he is NOT going on a plane without facing some backlash of (whatever type) of profiling wrongfully...or offending some group.

Not discussing any religion anymore.

Even my kids know what aka means........and we just keep stretching and spending on a security net whose last line of defense has no common sense.
system is very broken in many ways....

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whateverpedia

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

And while all muslims are not terrorists, at this point, all the terrorists are muslims

Really?

So the IRA, Basque separatists, Timothy McVeigh and the wallies blowing up abortion clinics are all muslims?

BTW The most violent war-mongering book I've ever read is the Old Testament (King Kames edition).

For the most balanced look at terrorism watch these BBC docos.

"The Power Of Nightmares"

Part 1: "Baby, It's Cold Outside" - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2798679275960015727&hl=en&emb=1#

Part 2: "The Phantom Victory" - http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9506084&hl=en#

Part 3: "The Shadows In The Cave" - http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...2&hl=en&emb=1#

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Really?

So the IRA, Basque separatists, Timothy McVeigh and the wallies blowing up abortion clinics are all muslims?

BTW I am fully aware that the Qu'ran states that non-believers should be converted or executed.

Then again so does the Old Testament.

Just saying.

And again, when the IRA, basque separatists and whiteboys from the midwest start flying planes into buildings, wearing bombs in their underwear with the intent to bring down planes full of americans and declare religion fueled war on the U.S. on almost a weekly basis..you will have a point. Until then....

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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

Hi Forest Parks,

You said it much better than I could have.

You're 100% right, some of the comments are completely out of line. IT reminds me of people who say we should just nuke the entire Middle East and turn the desert to glass. It makes my skin crawl when people spout such sewage.

Anyway, thank you for telling it like it is.

All the best,
Michael

Originally Posted by Forest_Parks

I'm actually a bit shocked about a few comments on this thread....

I don't really care too much about being scanned, clothes are a human construct anyway and they don't make us anymore civilised than apes. That does not mean that I like being naked but if that's how they want to try and make the masses feel more secure, i'll deal with it.

Ok now onto the comments I don't much like.... First off let me state that I am not aligned with any religion or country and I see good and bad in each and every one of these.

Firstly Seasoned said "(He was supposedly their one and only EXPERT. He was a foreigner, spoke english poorly, and his accent was PAINFUL!)"

Being a foreigner and him being a bad expert should not be in the same sentence. Maybe he did have poor English and maybe he is a bad expert but they are very unrelated things..... Just pointing that out that it didn't really need to be brought up about his ethnicity.....

Now the thing that really got me..... Andie said something I think is completly misguided and racist....

"I say, et's move on from strip searching costs, etc etc and just schedule 'muslim only' plane rides; then if they want to jones for blowing people up it is only ones who share their beliefs instead of the innocent folks"

Well.... you obviously don't have a very good grasp on the religion of Islam here.... I won't assume you are Christian but I will assume you are aware of Christianity. Well the Ku Klux Klan claimed to be doing the work of God and the Bible but no one ever decided that a war on Christianity was inline to get rid of the lynching B**stards.

The majority of Muslims do not share the belief of the few terrorists that are carrying out these horrible acts and if you ever get time to read the Koran you will realise it's an extremely peaceful book.

I currently live in Cairo by the way and most people here are very upset with the way many American's denounce them as terrorists or believing in terrorist views without knowing anything about the situation.

I suggest you do some research before making such absurd "racist" comments.

I apologise if it was just sarcasm!!

On a side note the security measures may be a bit far fetched: The True Odds of Airborne Terror Chart - Odds of Airborne Attacks - Gizmodo

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Andie

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Forest_Parks

I'm actually a bit shocked about a few comments on this thread....

I don't really care too much about being scanned, clothes are a human construct anyway and they don't make us anymore civilised than apes. That does not mean that I like being naked but if that's how they want to try and make the masses feel more secure, i'll deal with it.

Ok now onto the comments I don't much like.... First off let me state that I am not aligned with any religion or country and I see good and bad in each and every one of these.

Firstly Seasoned said "(He was supposedly their one and only EXPERT. He was a foreigner, spoke english poorly, and his accent was PAINFUL!)"

Being a foreigner and him being a bad expert should not be in the same sentence. Maybe he did have poor English and maybe he is a bad expert but they are very unrelated things..... Just pointing that out that it didn't really need to be brought up about his ethnicity.....

Now the thing that really got me..... Andie said something I think is completly misguided and racist....

"I say, et's move on from strip searching costs, etc etc and just schedule 'muslim only' plane rides; then if they want to jones for blowing people up it is only ones who share their beliefs instead of the innocent folks"

Well.... you obviously don't have a very good grasp on the religion of Islam here.... I won't assume you are Christian but I will assume you are aware of Christianity. Well the Ku Klux Klan claimed to be doing the work of God and the Bible but no one ever decided that a war on Christianity was inline to get rid of the lynching B**stards.

The majority of Muslims do not share the belief of the few terrorists that are carrying out these horrible acts and if you ever get time to read the Koran you will realise it's an extremely peaceful book.

I currently live in Cairo by the way and most people here are very upset with the way many American's denounce them as terrorists or believing in terrorist views without knowing anything about the situation.

I suggest you do some research before making such absurd "racist" comments.

I apologise if it was just sarcasm!!

On a side note the security measures may be a bit far fetched: The True Odds of Airborne Terror Chart - Odds of Airborne Attacks - Gizmodo

I am an equal opportunity peace monger, Forest!
Perhaps I should have said all "extremists" on their own plane

-- cannot say it matters to me which or what they want to believe that involves killing folks that are doing nothing but going about their own biz peacefully.

Unfortunately - due to 9-11 and these other terrorist incidents that are brought about by some Muslims have tarnished many of us very undeservedly, along with other Muslims. I do know it is not the teachings that the Islam faith intends. Our country has become one of fear and paranoia because of these things and it is a sad state in general these days IMO

I sincerely apologize if my remarks offended you or anyone else -- just sort of think the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket with a ribbon tied on top these days...

*sigh*
Andie

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Forest_Parks

I'm actually a bit shocked about a few comments on this thread....

I don't really care too much about being scanned, clothes are a human construct anyway and they don't make us anymore civilised than apes. That does not mean that I like being naked but if that's how they want to try and make the masses feel more secure, i'll deal with it.

But that is NOT the only issue! ***I*** am shocked how some pick ONE issue and say it should be ok because that issue doesn't apply!

Originally Posted by Forest_Parks

Firstly Seasoned said "(He was supposedly their one and only EXPERT. He was a foreigner, spoke english poorly, and his accent was PAINFUL!)"

Being a foreigner and him being a bad expert should not be in the same sentence. Maybe he did have poor English and maybe he is a bad expert but they are very unrelated things..... Just pointing that out that it didn't really need to be brought up about his ethnicity.....

Would it HELP if I say he was probably NOT moslem? And yeah, they ARE related! A foreigner talking as he does should NOT be there! Suppose there is a problem or concern? SECONDS could mean life or death, and I am sure we are sometimes talking WEEKS, or LONGER! As I recall, he DID take 2 weeks to call me. I would rather DRAG THEIR NAME THROUGH THE MUD, and sue the hospital, than go deaf trying to talk to that idiot. He LITERALLY said he could do NO wrong!

Originally Posted by Forest_Parks

Now the thing that really got me..... Andie said something I think is completly misguided and racist....

"I say, et's move on from strip searching costs, etc etc and just schedule 'muslim only' plane rides; then if they want to jones for blowing people up it is only ones who share their beliefs instead of the innocent folks"

Well.... you obviously don't have a very good grasp on the religion of Islam here.... I won't assume you are Christian but I will assume you are aware of Christianity. Well the Ku Klux Klan claimed to be doing the work of God and the Bible but no one ever decided that a war on Christianity was inline to get rid of the lynching B**stards.

The majority of Muslims do not share the belief of the few terrorists that are carrying out these horrible acts and if you ever get time to read the Koran you will realise it's an extremely peaceful book.

YEAH, AND, ironically, they consider abraham and Jesus to be prophets! If EITHER was a prophet, they were POOR, if islam is the way. And those that hurt in the name of islam are a VERY vocal, and apparently large, group. As for the KKK, I am NOT aware of them EVER saying it was for any Christian purpose, or claiming it was in the Bible. Did they SAY they were Christian? SURE, most people said they were. So comparing the two is just silly.

Originally Posted by Forest_Parks

I currently live in Cairo by the way and most people here are very upset with the way many American's denounce them as terrorists or believing in terrorist views without knowing anything about the situation.

I suggest you do some research before making such absurd "racist" comments.

I apologise if it was just sarcasm!!

On a side note the security measures may be a bit far fetched: The True Odds of Airborne Terror Chart - Odds of Airborne Attacks - Gizmodo

HEY, NOBODY is saying all moslems are even bad or unreasonable, let alone terrorists. As for the gizmodo chart, that is MORONIC! They don't know how many attempts were made, NOBODY does! They don't even know how many were successful. I would be willing to bet, if it were even possible to determine, that there may have been 20 times, or MORE, as many attempts. There is too much that could go wrong. did you hear about those people in checkoslovakia that planted a bomb on a traveler as a test and then had to search for her because they lost her?

The fact is that terrorists WANT to succeed. A MINOR change could deter them. What if a flight were cancelled? Maybe the type of plane changed? WHO KNOWS! MAYBE they were stopped at the gate, or decided not to commit suicide. Maybe a planted bag was caught or lost. And some planes go down and are THOUGHT to not be terrorists. Some MIGHT have been. WHO KNOWS? And the terrorists would LIKE you to think 100% are SUCCESSFUL, so they won't speak of failures, unless it suits them.

STILL, NOBODY says it is all that frequent. So would YOU want a bomb on YOUR next flight? It wouldn't change the odds that much!

Steve

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Lawrh

14 years ago

There are currently 1.6 billion people who follow Islam. Suggesting that 24% of the human race are terrorists is absurd.

Consider a western extremist, former presidential candidate Pat Robertson. He publicly advocated the use of nuclear weapons and has also publicly advocated the assassination of the leaders of governments that do not accept US policy.

Side note, the "underwear bomber", the explosives in his shorts equaled about 8 blasting caps. If it went off all that would have happened is the destruction of his reproductive capability. For that millions are being spent on scanners.

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lawrh

There are currently 1.6 billion people who follow Islam. Suggesting that 24% of the human race are terrorists is absurd.

Suggesting that the muslim that lives down the street from you in anytown usa is the same as the muslim born, bred and living in iraq/iran/afghanistan is equall absurd.

Consider a western extremist, former presidential candidate Pat Robertson. He publicly advocated the use of nuclear weapons and has also publicly advocated the assassination of the leaders of governments that do not accept US policy.

pat robertson isn't attacking us right now. We arent at war with the followers of pat robertson.

Side note, the "underwear bomber", the explosives in his shorts equaled about 8 blasting caps. If it went off all that would have happened is the destruction of his reproductive capability. For that millions are being spent on scanners.

He had a 6" tube of PETN in his underwear. PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known. it detonates at over 4000 degrees and is used in things like detcord. Detcord is basically explosive rope that explodes so fast you can't follow which direction the explosion comes from with the naked eye, and is regularly used to fell large trees for quick landing zones and also to disable equipment such as trucks by wrapping d-cord around the engine block to basically cut the engine in half.

6" of PETN would have easily punched a hole in thin aluminum fuselage of the aircraft caused the cabin to decompress and most likely brought it down.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lawrh

There are currently 1.6 billion people who follow Islam. Suggesting that 24% of the human race are terrorists is absurd.

Consider a western extremist, former presidential candidate Pat Robertson. He publicly advocated the use of nuclear weapons and has also publicly advocated the assassination of the leaders of governments that do not accept US policy.

Side note, the "underwear bomber", the explosives in his shorts equaled about 8 blasting caps. If it went off all that would have happened is the destruction of his reproductive capability. For that millions are being spent on scanners.

It turns out that one of the explosives is one of the most powerful. His underwear would have put out 464.8KJ Apparently that is 343 foot pounds. To have all that force happen at once I would think could easily blow him apart(It was in close quarters surounded on three sides.), injure several people, and maybe blow a hole in the aircraft. It looks like it has the explosive power of roughly a sixth of a stick of dynamite. Although the numbers are unclear. In any event, that is a lot of force to release at once, and where he was sitting wasn't a good place to do so. But what do you expect from 80gms? I guess we can be thankful that they weren't too thoughtful. I could probably have smuggled several pounds(1lb is almost 28 times as much) aboard, not that I would.

It's a pity they can't just blow it up to see how it could have been.

BTW NOBODY is suggesting 24% of them are terrorists. Even 2%, by your numbers, would be 32,000,000! So even a SMALL minority is a LOT! THAT is 1/10th of the population of the US, and the US has a pretty large moslem population.

Oh yeah, some airports have moslem services!

Steve

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Andie

14 years ago

Michael
Good icy morning to you - didn't see the show but based on the average body appearance of the world, I doubt it would be alot of 'pleasurable' viewing to suffer through as an 'agent'

As per usual, the majority must suffer as to not 'offend' the few that would cause us all harm. I mean, gee whiz, we even get to pay for the legal representation of ones like the Ft Hood shooter and the latest 'underwear bomber'....
I say, et's move on from strip searching costs, etc etc and just schedule 'extremists only' plane rides; then if they want to jones for blowing people up it is only ones who share their beliefs instead of the innocent folks

Andie

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Andie

I say, et's move on from strip searching costs, etc etc and just schedule 'muslim only' plane rides; then if they want to jones for blowing people up it is only ones who share their beliefs instead of the innocent folks

Andie

Nice thought, except some try to blend in. ALSO, the airline industry is in ENOUGH trouble.
We SHOULD look closer at ALL muslims though! As for calling it "profiling", almost like a CUSS WORD, like that IDIOT "larry king" did on a show recently, let's tell him he has to fly on a special airplane with ferel skunks, lions, etc... with NO cages! If he ****DARES**** to say anything about danger or stench we can say "NOPE, that is PROFILING! WHAT, are you speciest!?!?!?"! Sometimes discrimination(Which means telling the difference, or profiling) is a GOOD thing. HE does it all the time, but DOESN'T CARE!

Steve

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Andie

Michael
Good icy morning to you - didn't see the show but based on the average body appearance of the world, I doubt it would be alot of 'pleasurable' viewing to suffer through as an 'agent'

As per usual, the majority must suffer as to not 'offend' the few that would cause us all harm. I mean, gee whiz, we even get to pay for the legal representation of ones like the Ft Hood shooter and the latest 'underwear bomber'....
I say, et's move on from strip searching costs, etc etc and just schedule 'muslim only' plane rides; then if they want to jones for blowing people up it is only ones who share their beliefs instead of the innocent folks

Andie

I am completely down for the idea of Allah Airlines with remote detonators on the planes. If any of the planes deviate from course or their transponders are turned off...boom.

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danalingga

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Did anyone else watch the show last night about the airport scanners? I dont fly all that much, but I can't say that I'm all that excited to basically be strip seached on vid, personally I think these things go a little too far.

Anyone else have a problem with pretty much being nude for the viewing pleasure of tsa agents?

i think that un-avoidable situation. The most important is safety this time and then privacy.

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

One of the ways the system is broken is people are so worried about being politically correct that its almost crippling.

When tsa people have a choice of a 90 year old white female, a 10 year old black male or a 18-55 year old male of middle-eastern descent and grandma and junior are the ones being searched so that the person in the correct demographic wont be offended, thats pretty stupid.

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Forest_Parks 14 years ago

Thanks Andie,

I too agree that all this is a little far fetched.... I just feel like i'll won't moan about all the security measures as long as it's still possible for me to jump on a plane every now and then.... the body scans really are not going to change anything but they don't bother me them being in place either.

Here are the options. A big greasy grumpy man touching my inner thighs, or a grumpy greasy man seeing an x-ray version of me in my birthday suit!.... The scanners actually kind of seem like a good idea now!

I won't talk about religion or race anymore.... Not the forum for that, I just couldn't help making some response previously.
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