Here we go: Any minute Lose Another $150,000,000,000?

16 years ago

Anarchy sounds fun. I'll go with ya.

Well, do 3 elite, powerful bankers have more influence than a million "commoners"? Is there still power in numbers? Guess we'll find out. I hope the country can be the free democracy it was meant to be.

Or I've always wanted to live in costa rica.

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John M Kane

16 years ago

Ah...Costa Rica sounds like a plan cuz the Ponderosa is scrivlin up like a past due prune.
Stick a fork in it, it's done.

Were these criminals from the pit of hell EVER trustworthy?!
Only reason nothin has been done from the people is due to the happy sauce that we drink and bath in daily.
I know these things because my Aluminum helmet blocks out their signals

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valerieSONORA

16 years ago

Wow the bill is now 450 pages. Glad I don't have to read that. That reading might be right up Indy's alley though.

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Phnx 16 years ago

Originally Posted by annoyedgirl

Wow the bill is now 450 pages. Glad I don't have to read that. That reading might be right up Indy's alley though.

Heh I just posted your vid again. I'll bet anything they don't actually read all those pages. They'll 'skim' and miss the important small print. When our politicians signed the Maastrict Treaty (effectively selling us down the river and eroding sovereignty of nations) few of them actually read it before they signed it. Unbelievable.

I hope there are enough of your guys who read every single word and clause, to understand exactly what they are signing.
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Phnx

16 years ago

Have you seen this vid Pat? annoyedgirl posted it on another thread, but I don't think it's getting the attention it deserves. 58min documentary from Britain but it applies to you guys especially. It shows how these greedy *******s turned the banks into hedgefunds and how they used the subprimes to make profits. If anyone deserves to go down it's these guys, and they are frantic now it's collapsing on them.

Dear god, the unadulterated greed has to be seen to be believed. And now Paulson is asking for $850 billion?

Super Rich: The Greed Game

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Patrician

16 years ago

I am glad you think it's so funny (the guy with the aluminum, lol).

The truth is the one man who was in charge of this, caused this problem by what could be ineptness, but is far more likely to be purposely for his own gain, and that is ****head Paulson.

Now he is the one who is going to control the 'solution'??? What is the saying? Let the Fox control the hen house?

There needs to be criminal prosecution and he needs to be removed from power immediately.

That is the main problem with this beyond the money. Has been for me since day one when he tried to pull off giving himself full control.

He is the one who has profited from everyone's misery and fine if they think this 'bail out' will help people - but he needs to be out of this, either way.

He is the cause and he should not be given anymore confidence.

I would throw his ass in jail face first and take every fricking penny he has.

I will watch the video Lee, as soon as I can see something besides red - it looks like it is going to pass in the senate.

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Patrician

16 years ago

JUST PASSED THE SENATE.

GOING TO THE HOUSE (THEY SAVED US YESTERDAY)

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Patrician

16 years ago

Again, I see this can be acceptable (the 'bailout') because we have no other choice now, if we don't want to totally implode.

However, again, it is all about getting rid of the cause and that is Paulson and his ilk that are allowed to manipulate the market while benefitting from it.

Makes absolutely no sense except in a dictatorship.

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valerieSONORA

16 years ago

We should form a coup and take over.

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Steven Wagenheim 16 years ago

I understand all the problems with this bailout, but at this point, it is either
this or we all go under.

I prefer to live to fight another day...no matter how much this stinks.
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- myob 16 years ago
  
  We should buy stocks now. This is the greatest opportunity for investors since 1929.
  
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  HeySal 16 years ago
  
  Just saw on Wired that the WH email button is getting slammed so hard that the website might crash. It's getting millions of clicks. We need to get even louder than we were in the first place -- we need to demand prosecutions and we need to do it quick.
  
  When you call or email - or any way you contact them -- yell "Prosecute".
  
  What is being done to us is purposefully designed - this is no cyclical crash - economists, look at it again - and read your history. This is not economics as normal -- we need prosecutions.
  
  Gulag time in the US.
  
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  Dean Shainin 16 years ago
  
  I feel you Patricia.
  
  Does anyone remember Abraham Lincoln Gettysburg address line?
  
  "government of the people, by the people, for the people"
  
  We are now finally free of the quotation and that notion.
  
  We now have a government of the banks,by the banks and for the banks.
  
  Congratulations America, we are now owned and are really going to pay the price like nothing you can even imagine in your wildest dreams down the road when this new bill gets passed.
  
  Short term gain for really longgggggggggg term pain.
  
  Now we have a real "wild card" called the 'dollar' at risk like we've never seen before. Maybe they want to kill the 'dollar'? I've never even thought of that before...
  
  But why would they want to do that?
  
  What would be the point?
  
  Hmm...
  
  Makes me wonder.
  
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  TimPhelan 16 years ago
  
  Interesting discussion from the left and right on the Larry King show. Ben Stein and Robert Reich. Both think the "bail out" bill is necessary. Stein really goes off on Paulson here.
  
  YouTube - Ben Stein on McCain economy 1of 2
  
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  Phnx 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dean Shainin
  
  Maybe they want to kill the 'dollar'? I've never even thought of that before...
  
  But why would they want to do that?
  
  What would be the point?
  
  Well they have got the Amero waiting in the wings, to match the Euro. Just another stage in their plans for a One World Government. Treasonous dogs.
  
  Here's a couple of old CNBC clips that mention it. The second clip mocks it but only in the sense "it'll be about 40 years away". That was 2006 though, so things can change.
  
  YouTube - The Amero - North American Currency
  
  YouTube - Amero Debate - CNBC Worldwide 11-28-2006
  
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Patrician

16 years ago

Good videos - thanks Phnx & Tim P

Can you say
CONFLICT OF INTEREST?

Can you say FRAUD?

FIRE
PAULSON
YESTERDAY.

PUT HIM BEHIND BARS.

LET'S FLAME BROIL THE SUCKER FIRST.

COME ON OT WARRIORS, FIRE UP THE BARBIES.

THINK CRISPY, TOASTY, CHARCOAL

BOILED IN OIL WOULD WORK TOO.

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Indiana

Banned 16 years ago

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Mike Wright

16 years ago

I do not understand how they can call this a BILL at all
when its just and ever-changing patchwork of different
bits boiler-plated together just like some shyster attorney
would to justify an impressive client invoice.

I doubt whether anyone has had adequate time to
deliberate the legalities, constitional conformities,
full ramifications or loopholes in the first 3 pager,
let alone any unintended fallout.

Is the US Supreme Court just rubber-stamping all
this feeding-frenzy .... Bush just signing it into Law
is the ultimate absurdity.

What really worries me is that some of the wealthiest and most
powerful Americans seem to be in such a rush to get this
through before their own wealth, power and credibility turns
to dust.

This has echoes of the last days of Thatcher and Blair's tenure,
when all kinds of "unfortunate" crap was rushed through in their
last few weeks in the UK!!!!

There is just too much politics and self-interest involved in
this "bill of goods".

You know what, this alternative makes way more sense
A $85 Billion Dollar Deal

450 pages in a couple of days ...stinks to high heaven

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Indiana

Banned 16 years ago

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Mal Keenan

16 years ago

Therein lies the problem. These people will tell the people anything to get elected and then as soon as they're in the door they do as they please.

It's like a sick joke and it comes round every election time.

AND, it doesn't matter whether you are Republican or Democrat, Labour or Conservative.

George Carlin sums it up:

YouTube - Who owns you Americans?

The good news is I think people are actually, FINALLY, getting wise to the big con.

Originally Posted by Indiana

I understand that this still has to go to the House of Representatives, but I just listen to Dianne Feinstein say that out of 95,000 phone calls and emails her office received, 85,000 were against the bailout, but she said she knew what was best for her constituents and was voting yes for the bill, she did. These morons backdoored the US citizen. They are trying to steam role the House of Representatives who already vote no.

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Kay King 16 years ago

The good news is I think people are actually, FINALLY, getting wise to the big con.

Wish I could believe that but I think once this mess is passed (and I don't mean "past") people will go back to arguing their candidates and will base their opinions on the same shallow "facts" and "appearances" and a lot of misinformation.

I wonder if in the future Pres debates a moderator might actually ask hard questions that require real answers instead of dance steps?

kay
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Patrician

16 years ago

That's why criminal prosecution is the only thing that will make people wake up.

They need to be slapped right across the face with the evidence that criminals have taken over the financial markets and the government itself at the highest levels.

This is obviously not a 'conspiracy theory' because $850,000,000,000 DOESN'T SEEM LIKE MY IMAGINATION? OR DOES IT?

This was no 'accident' or series of 'accidents' folks and it doesn't matter which dweeb you elect anymore.

The only hope we have is that there is somewhere still a law enforcement agency that hasn't been bought and that will prosecute.

Hopefully we will all live long enough to get through all the beauracracy to see the truth revealed.

Let's hope people will wake up before they march us off to the ovens.

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myob 16 years ago

Who cares? Just make some money now and worry about the criminals later. It's just about time to buy bank stocks again. Citigroup and JPMorgan Chase are particularly attractive right now once all the bad debt is removed by the bailout. These banks are going to be able to grab market share at arguably bargain prices. More market share means that these surviving firms have stronger growth prospects in the future.
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Patrician

16 years ago

First of all 'who cares' - most people who don't have a cavalier attitude care.

I am real glad that you have money to take advantage of everything that is hurting us common people. Most of the people I know do not.

My investment funds are tied up right now beause they are bank stocks/mutual funds and if I move them I will lose what is left right now, which is about half of the value of 4 years ago.

It's good that you have a positive attitude and it's good that you can benefit from people's misery. You should run for office, you will fit right in.

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myob

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

First of all 'who cares' - most people who don't have a cavalier attitude care.

I am real glad that you have money to take advantage of everything that is hurting us common people. Most of the people I know do not.

My investment funds are tied up right now beause they are bank stocks/mutual funds and if I move them I will lose what is left right now, which is about half of the value of 4 years ago.

It's good that you have a positive attitude and it's good that you can benefit from people's misery. You should run for office, you will fit right in.

Not at all cavalier, Patricia. Nearly half of Americans own stocks, and to those I believe if they can hang on they'll recover. If you have bank stocks, you should be in a very good position in a year or two. History has shown in every downturn, those that have the means to invest at low prices can see many fold returns.

What I meant was you can't do anything right now about the criminals that got us into this mess, but what many of us can do is to is to invest in some of the stocks that are at historically low prices - including banks. They will recover, and if the common people can buy their tickets now, they will have a ride to the top.

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Patrician

16 years ago

I know Paul and I admit if I had money I would do what you are doing. I am just so ticked off I am not thinking clearly. It was just the 'who cares' that 'rubbed me the wrong way'. Thanks actually for being positive.

I guess my frustration is magnified because I know that the 'elitist' white collar criminals don't have the same system of justice we do and that nothing will happen in the way of recovering the money they have taken from us by manipulating the markets, let alone will they ever be prosecuted.

Originally Posted by myob

Not at all cavalier, Patricia. Nearly half of Americans own stocks, and to those I believe if they can hang on they'll recover. If you have bank stocks, you should be in a very good position in a year or two. History has shown in every downturn, those that have the means to invest at low prices can see many fold returns.

What I meant was you can't do anything right now about the criminals that got us into this mess, but what many of us can do is to is to invest in some of the stocks that are at historically low prices - including banks. They will recover, and if the common people can buy their tickets now, they will have a ride to the top.

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bendiggs

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

Any minute now they may pass an even more hideous and insipid bill than even the last one.

Anyone who is on the fence - do you see how the price went up to $850,000,000,000 in only 2 days??? What will it be next time you look?

This is the 'solution' that they propose to fix the other solution which solves JACK ****

...and by the way, the majority of people who are calling/emailing are very opposed to this bill.

If it passes anyway, this is a major clue that everything we have feared about fascism is coming true.

I used to say I am just a little to the right of being an anarchist.

If this bill passes, I totally condone full blown anarchy and that will be the party I support.

We are being 'governed' by complete lunatics and they need to go.

Yay internet revolutionary! So what do you propose the solution is to the current financial crisis. Realize that anarchy and revolution aren't solutions, just paths to more problems, most of which will involve bloodshed. This bailout is the only plan that has been put forth as a viable solution, and it is still better than our past method of just sitting around and ignoring it. When you can come up with a better non-violent solution then you can have the floor to talk and be taken seriously.

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Patrician 16 years ago

I don't recall you having control of the floor, and I would never want you to take me seriously. Go away.

Originally Posted by bendiggs

When you can come up with a better non-violent solution then you can have the floor to talk and be taken seriously.
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valerieSONORA

16 years ago

I think anarchy is a great solution.

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Patrician 16 years ago

I am completely non-violent and a law abiding citizen. I feel that our government has betrayed us while we have been asleep at the wheel. I think it is time to do something about it.

Here is the definition from the dictionary of anarchy and anarchism. I don't see anything about violence.

Anarchy: Absence of government. 2. Lawless confusion and political disorder (that is what we have NOW). 3. General disorder.

Anarchism: The theory that all forms of government are incompatible with individual and social liberty and should be replaced by voluntary cooperation and mutual aid.

Originally Posted by annoyedgirl

I think anarchy is a great solution.
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- myob 16 years ago
  
  We have been through this before. You will never be able to get back at the criminal element, the greedy speculators, the corrupt politicians, or the inept regulators. This happens over and over again, and there is nothing you can do about it but try to understand that we will recover.
  
  This happened most spectacularly in 1929, 1970, 1987, 2001, 2008. People were just as angry and confused as some are now. But the periods in between showed periods of explosive wealth and prosperity. All I am saying is those that had the means made money when they could invest. On the darker side, there are those who are making money while the economy plunges as well.
  
  Why did Warren Buffett invest $5billion in GE? He has already lost money on this investment, but it shows his confidence that this investment will pay off in the long run, and that the price of GE is undervalued.
  
  The market will go down some more perhaps, but in the long run investors that have the foresight to invest in undervalued stocks will come out way of ahead of those who simply whine and plot revenge. The whiners and avengers of today will be the whiners and complainers of tomorrow because life is not fair when they miss out on the rebound.
  
  The greatest revenge is success, and the taste is much sweeter.
  
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Patrician

16 years ago

I agree, the greatest revenge is success, Paul. As I said, I do like the way you think most of the time.

I guess it does sound like whining, but you just never know where people are coming from unless you 'walk in their shoes' and because some are able to profiteer (and more power to you), as I said the majority are not going to be able to do anything but maybe eat, keep a roof over their head and put gas in their cars to get to work.

I think the kind of thinking that we can't do anything about it and just have to accept it and move on, is what has immobilized us and turned us into an enslaved and disenfranchised people.

I will never accept being a victim. Even if I have to live with it because I am powerless. That's just me.

As I always say, we have been sold down the river a long time ago. You can't just take this one thing that is the crisis at the moment, but all the things that have transpired to get us to this point.

This includes shutting down our industries, sending our jobs overseas, importing products that have 'sweetheart' no duty deals that we can't compete with, flooding us with immigrant workers who work for 1/2 of what we can afford to, allowing 14 million illegal aliens to take jobs, social services, not pay taxes and send their money offshore; spend billions of dollars to fight wars nobody wants, and incarcerate thousands of people for victimless crimes which costs us millions.

Then you add the element of the greed of elitist speculators and white collar criminals who are allowed to run rampant over us, in the name of deregulation and just plain theft by manipulating the markets and oil prices, and fraud; not to mention totally outrageous compensation for those 'at the top', even when they have failed to do a good job for the company, employees or stockholders, etc., and lo and behold, it is no surprise that so many American citizens have lost their homes and everything they have worked for all their lives.

This 'solution' of the bailout is no solution at all - albeit we probably have no choice and it is the lesser of two evils right now - however it is a thin bandaid that is going to make things worse and it is NO GUARANTEE things will get better, except ON PAPER.

Just like two wrongs don't make a right, I don't care if this happened 100 times before. When is it going to stop especially if we are all going to act like moonies and just accept it???

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myob 16 years ago

One of my favorite topics is learning how to make money. That is why I joined the Warrior Forum - now more than 6 years ago. I believe we have some of the greatest money-making geniuses on the planet in this forum, and they give generously of their time and talents for us.

What is surprising is how this is the only part of the forum that spews out despair and hopelessness. Seriously, I am mad as hell too about what is happening to our government and economy, but we as Warriors are behaving as if making money suddenly is the big NO NO. Don't make money, it's a crime to make money when others are suffering. We should stop trying to earn a living because there are goons in our government. I say "Get a life."

Part of being responsible citizens in my opinion is to be prosperous and be wise managers of our resources. Another is to be active participants in local, state, and national government. Work to get good and ethical people with sound judgment elected to public office, get the inept and corrupted removed. This is the process of a sound and prosperous economy. Get out and vote.

I use my resources to support elections, and work in local community groups for disadvantaged kids. One of my favorite sponsorships is, as you might guess, is the Young Executive Institute where we volunteer to teach young people entrepreneurial and business management skills in the inner city schools.

To make a difference, you first have to make money. This is what I admire about Allen, with his generosity and charitable efforts - an example we all should try to emulate. The marketing gurus on this forum have made a big difference for me in my lifestyle.

Pass it on.
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valerieSONORA

16 years ago

Despair and hopelessness have to go somewhere. And Indy's obsession with posting articles about America's economy and the downfall of USA. He's even named after a US state.

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myob 16 years ago

I think Indy is just playing around and having a little fun. Everyone else here seems so depressed though. My little kids in the Young Executive Institute are really cleaning up selling SFI cleaning products and making more money than some of their parents. These kids' ambition and the cleaning products are non-toxic, unlike some assets and attitudes.
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- HeySal 16 years ago
  
  Paul - I don't know how many times I need to say this for people to "get it" but this bill is not about MONEY - it is about FASCISM and the DISSOLUTION of the Constitution and in the willful take over of our people via economical channels.
  
  That you have money is not a problem - that you enjoy having money is not a problem. That you feel that you are safe in a fascist take over....well, that might create a problem for you. Especially if you do not know how to live without barrels of cash.
  
  In 1917 it was made illegal for Americans to own gold. That law is still on the books - it was just suspended and not completely wiped out. At this point of time, we might see the suspension of the law lifted - and troops raiding homes to take anything and everything gold away from you -stocks would be dishonored - you would be paid back in paper currency, but isn't that exactly what you invested in metal to avoid?
  
  Also - you notice what the target is lately? Mortgages. Do you really think it is fine, dandy, and even that it will continue to be lucrative for the FED to own stock - and even controlling stock at that, in the mortgage companies (i.e. all that property?).
  
  Do you think you will continue to be rich when the government has just set itself up to be able to take any amount from you it wishes, any time it wishes to do so, for any purpose for which it wishes?
  
  You may be smart, Paul - it takes one good strong amount of education and practice to deal in the markets - but I can tell by the way you speak of money that you are not used to being rich - you are not of the elite. What if they decide to knock anyone out of the water who isn't one of them? There you go, pal - right back to square 0 in a quick squiggle of a pen. Your investments are no longer safe if that bail out goes through and I think you should know enough about the higher workings of the market at the Central Bank level to understand that. There are only 6,000 people (families) worldwide that stand to gain from this bail out. Period. The rest of us are sitting ducks no matter what our portfolios. I am glad I had to ditch mine out a few years back - less of a target now. I am also glad I am not on welfare right now -talk about a slaughter coming.
  
  I sure hope the person who handles your portfolio understands more about this mess than you do. I personally doubt that you are actually controlling your own investment strategies from what I have heard from you.
  
  Anyone - even the rich who are not elite rich - should be outraged and doing everything possible to avoid a bailout which puts the control of the money flow into the hands of the Government Admin. The crash was caused by illegal methodology and the only way to actually stabilize the markets and keep the constitution of the country alive is to arrest those involved with the crash. Prosecution (and I'm talking Arrest and dissolution of the FED as well) is the only way those who dabble in markets will have money that is safe from hijacking and outright theft. It is the ONLY way this mess can naturally straighten itself out and secure our lives as free citizens.
  
  Forget reading economics theories books and start reading economic history books - start with 1917 and concentrate on the 30's and 40's - globally. You will not only find it very interesting - it will activate both your elimination and your purge systems very nicely.
  
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  Paul1234 16 years ago
  
  The bill has just passed.
  
  263 Yea, 171 Nay
  
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Patrician

16 years ago

I agree with you Paul and it doesn't fit the IM lifestyle/mindset to be in dispair. Like I tell my 'patients' on the helpdesk, when you feel discouraged, use the same energy to get determined. Try harder.

However, the OT is a place to ACT UP and get it off our chests. I believe it is healthy to express your emotions. As a matter of fact it has been proven that people that stay bottled up are the ones with heart attacks, etc.

I realize what a fool I must sound sometimes, but actually I get over and past things by expressing them. I am upset on many levels - and as I said unless 'you walk in their shoes' you can't understand. Even a PhD would not help you to have empathy.

...and I don't trust 'Polyanna''s. I may envy and respect them for their ability to be 'teflon', but I figure they refuse to see reality. As many decades as I have been one who hid, I can tell you I 'should have known'.

I think it is extremely important, ugly and warts and all that people realize exactly what is happening to them. This is so they can take action if they feel that is appropriate - whether for the greater good or just to protect themselves if they can.

It's funny to me that even though most successful people will tell you they had many failures along the way, they seem to become oblivious to the way it was before they had a lot of money.

It is true 'money doesn't grow on trees' and because fortunately you find yourself in a position to 'make book' out of this (make lemonade with the lemons) that does not mean the majority of others are in the same position.

Real people who have worked very hard all their lives have lost everything. When you are jobless like millions of Americans, and there is nothing you can do except keep trying to survive (and just accept that you lost everything and need to start over), then there is going to be a period where you need to get your bearings, vent, etc.

Celebrate the downturn and buy stocks? hahaha. Wouldn't that be sweet. NOBODY SAID IT IS A CRIME. It is just not possible for most people.

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derekwong28

16 years ago

It is done!

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myob 16 years ago

Sal,

I am well aware of history, thank you for your concern, but my view has always been for the long term. 98% of mortgages in the US are NOT in a crisis situation. Responsible behavior, living within your means, and planning for the future trumps fear of the hypothetical.
- Thanks
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