Dow Goes Below 10,000!

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There have been huge plunges in Asian and European today because the financial crisis has now spread to Europe. The dow is trading below 10,000 at the moment. I is now below the 777 pt plunge that goaded goalmakers to pass the 700B bailout package.

So it seems that with or without bailout, the stockmarkets would tank anyway. Now, are they going to draft a 700 trilllion bailout package?

-Derek
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    This has been coming for quite some time. The focus was on "talking the markets up" and the problems were allowed to escalate to a crisis before the government and economists paid attention to them.

    The bailout was passed - but it won't take effect immediately. In fact, there seems to be some confusion on exactly how to implement it now that it's available. We've thrown money at a problem - but we haven't any real idea of how large the problem is.

    The biggest crisis in the US is the tanking job market and a frozen credit market. The unemployment numbers are worsening at a record pace.

    As it looks likely the US will be electing a President who is set on adding more social programs at large costs - I don't see where improvement is possible. Obama's tax reduction plan includes sending tax rebate checks to people who don't pay taxes and he insists this plan must go forward. At some point the bill must be paid and we are digging the debt hole deeper each day.

    Wall Street analysts on CNBC sound like they are in a panic - that's never a good sign.

    kay
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      This plunge should have been no surprise. Investors are holding back to see how the credit markets respond to the 700B bailout package. Get ready for a wild ride, though, as there is also expected to be quite a bit of volatility over the coming weeks.

      Personally, I'm building up for a major infusion for our investment group into stocks after the elections. There could be $1.5 TRILLION or even much more from other investors on the sidelines right now waiting for a favorable turnout in Congress and the Whitehouse.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Wright
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        This plunge should have been no surprise. Investors are holding back to see how the credit markets respond to the 700B bailout package. Get ready for a wild ride, though, as there is also expected to be quite a bit of volatility over the coming weeks.

        Personally, I'm building up for a major infusion for our investment group into stocks after the elections. There could be $1.5 TRILLION or even much more from other investors on the sidelines right now waiting for a favorable turnout in Congress and the Whitehouse.
        While the *real economy* notably voters, consumers, employees and
        retail sectors continue to tank, that would seem to be extraordinarily
        optimistic. There are few outside the US who even believe that the
        "bail-out" will have more than a small transient positive effect.

        The whole extreme free market capitalism model has broken. It will
        take far far more than a new US President to fix it. The only positive
        result is that the global prudence Tsunamii is driving down prices
        of commodities such as oil. This is slowing the rate of inflation.

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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by Mike Wright View Post

          ....
          The whole extreme free market capitalism model has broken. It will
          take far far more than a new US President to fix it. The only positive
          result is that the global prudence Tsunamii is driving down prices
          of commodities such as oil. This is slowing the rate of inflation.

          Wrong. This is a credit crisis only. The industrial fundamentals are strong. We have seen Warren Buffet invest $3billion in GE, for example. The stocks went down even for him, but he is in it for the long term. When people feel more confident in spending money, expect an upturn. Inflation is low and GDP is 2.8%. The dollar is up. Self-funded companies actually are doing very well.

          There are some bargains right now in the stock market in historically high companies, and most are still paying very good dividends. Fear and uncertainty is what is driving the markets. Those who understand this will make fortunes.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Actually what is driving the US markets right now is illegal and unconstitutional actions of the American Government - well, the despots that have taken it over anyway. There is no way to compare what happened the other day to any of our other economic swings - not even close. You aren't even going to see the real effects until the next despot has been seated.

            We still have hope though - the FBI is investigating the "yes" voters and the supreme court has charges to investigate right now over the bail out, too. If it is nullified, things will go back to better than normal - if it rides....you aren't going to believe the outcome. LOL.
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            • Profile picture of the author ctutt
              We still have hope though - the FBI is investigating the "yes" voters and the supreme court has charges to investigate right now over the bail out, too. If it is nullified, things will go back to better than normal - if it rides....you aren't going to believe the outcome. LOL.[/QUOTE]

              I hope you're right Sal.

              I've been wondering if there's any correlation to markets plunging further and faster as the probability of Obama's election continues to rise. Does anyone have a comment on that question?
              Charles
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Charles - it doesn't matter if Obama or McCain wins - outcome the same - sure a few minor differences, but both are going to sell us into forms of socialism that will be pretty oppressive. Just look at the bills they vote for and initiate if you don't believe it.

                MYOB - $1000 for serving for 5 days? That's a great deal and I would jump on it ....except that I would have to go to LA and anyone wandering into a major city right now is crazy. We are at about 3 minutes to martial law. The smaller the area you live in right now, the safer it is to be there.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Wright
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            Wrong. This is a credit crisis only. The industrial fundamentals are strong. We have seen Warren Buffet invest $3billion in GE, for example. The stocks went down even for him, but he is in it for the long term. When people feel more confident in spending money, expect an upturn. Inflation is low and GDP is 2.8%. The dollar is up. Self-funded companies actually are doing very well.

            There are some bargains right now in the stock market in historically high companies, and most are still paying very good dividends. Fear and uncertainty is what is driving the markets. Those who understand this will make fortunes.
            The Wall Street mantra seems incredibly divorced from reality. Industry,
            manufacturing, retail and service sectors are tanking big time globally.
            Consumers have gone on strike and are in survival mode. Taxpayers
            and voters are turning into a vast furious lynch mob demanding
            retribution against those who caused this global economic debacle.

            A large economy and GDP based on worthless hideously over-leveraged
            financial instruments and securities is insanely weak and vulnerable,
            just like any business or corporation operating in the same manner.
            Equally, stock values based on that fiction are themselves arbitrary.

            As banks now seem entirely focussed on self preservation of themselves
            and their shareholders. at the expense of everyone else including
            business, industry, retail and retail depositors/savers, and yet still
            seem to be collapsing to the point of government rescue around
            the globe ....greed still remains the last resort before taxpayers
            bail-outs.

            It will take some undoubtedly fiercely resisted draconian regulation
            of the banks, markets and financial sectors to return some semblance
            of CREDIBILITY to national and global economies.

            Maybe not the greatest time to be a predatory speculator or
            investor for all kinds of reasons
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            • Profile picture of the author Indiana
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Wright
                Originally Posted by Indiana View Post

                LooKing ahead...Here we go Myob...Start planning -O)

                *********

                "I'd never heard of David Tice, so I looked him up.

                "His firm publishes investment research "sell" recommendations to more than 200 money managers who collectively manage more than $2 trillion. Searching for overvalued common stocks, David W. Tice & Associates,' eleven full-time analysts serve as a "truth squad" to keep Wall Street honest."

                **********************************
                Huge Stock Decline Ahead
                (snip)


                "Policymakers and central bankers have perpetuated a bubble like we've never seen before, with mortgage financing that has put government sponsored enterprises (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) in trouble," he says.

                "The whole structure of the financing mechanism, where foreigners bought all these [mortgage] securities, has broken down. Institutions and foreigners no long trust our structure, insurance, ratings, etc."

                As a result, Tice says, "We're in big trouble."


                Post from another forum...Indy
                I would certainly agree with that from my own perspective Indy
                The fat lady now seems to be homeless and jobless!
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  The fat lady now seems to be homeless and jobless!
                  Pretty hard to sing under a gag order I would suppose.
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                  Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    I hope it is near capitulation, London is now down 7.85%. t has been highly disturbing for anybody with stocks and mutual funds these past few weeks. But it just seems that Europeans have cooler heads than Americans, they may not draw up a bailout plan even if their stockmarkets collapes.

    The atmosphere is just really scary right now in Hong Kong. You got Lehman investors protesting everyday. Attendance at high-end restaurants have collapsed by 20-30%. Sales of luxury and other cars have plummetted. Property prices have started crashing as well, it seems by as much as 10% within a month!

    I think it probably feels just as bad around the world.

    -Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Unfortunately, a financial crisis often eads to an economic crisis followed by a political crisis. This is what happend in a lot of countries in 1997-1998.

    It is worth noting that even your Nasdaq is less than half its all-time high achieved several years ago. God knows when it will return to its all time high.

    At least tomorrow is a holiday here. If the markets recover in the US and Europe, we may be spared a lashing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Indiana
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Dow Closes Just Under 10,000 after a nearly 800 point drop! SOMEBODY made some big bucks. Let's generate some more FEAR.
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      • Profile picture of the author gareth
        BAD BAD BAD Omen !!!

        Bad shit is going down.
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        Auckland, New Zealand

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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Thank you, Gareth! You and Indy make a great team! Just spread the word, and we can all make a killing in the global markets!
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      • Profile picture of the author bendiggs
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        Dow Closes Just Under 10,000 after a nearly 800 point drop! SOMEBODY made some big bucks. Let's generate some more FEAR.
        Yes the Dow plummeted 800 points today, but then rebounded about 450 points to close at a loss of about 370 points. However the 800 point drop is the largest single day point drop in the history of the stock market. It is terrifying to watch my portfolio.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Sal is right. Nothing will suffice except for severe punitive action and seizure of the ill-gotten gains. Maybe we could redistribute that to people who lost their homes, jobs, etc. due to the policies inflicted on us by our so-called government.

    I have had the first backlash on my credit. Amex trying to mitigate their exposure.

    I have a perfect record with them - never late, etc. Now they have reduced my credit line to what I owe because I have 'too many obligations'.

    Mind you I don't have a single new card since I opened theirs a year ago and have not made any major purchases on any other card, pay all my bills on time, etc.

    I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop now. I'll tell you it makes me want to go and take care of car maintenance, etc that I could put off longer - just in case I end up with no credit line.

    When banks change the annual percentage rate they usually give you the option of not using the card anymore if you want to keep the existing rate. That works for me. No telling how dirty they are going to deal in this crisis - I wonder if they can demand you pay your whole bill right now or anything like that...

    Yes it's true all the fear mongering is one thing that drives the market down even on a good day. We all know we are in a precarious situation, and sliding down the slippery slope, so we need to chill and not dig the fricking knife deeper.

    This is a global crisis obviously - we all got in the mess together and hopefully we will all get out of it together.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Patricia,

      We WILL get through this. We have been through much worse and have been made stronger than before as a result. American history of full of overcoming hardships and prevailing. That is what has made us and other like-minded nations great, and I believe a people who can overcome hardships will prosper and achieve magnificence. It is in all of us, and the world will be better for it.

      I consider it an obligation to alleviate as much of the suffering of those around me as much as possible, because I have been so blessed in many ways. Hardship has built my faith.

      When you are able to stand, and help others where you can, inner strength will rise to the surface and proclaim "This too shall pass".
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      • Profile picture of the author Patrician
        Write on Paul -

        Please send me $100k so I can pay off my bills. LOLOLOLOL

        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        Patricia,

        I consider it an obligation to alleviate as much of the suffering of those around me as much as possible, because I have been so blessed in many ways. Hardship has built my faith.

        When you are able to stand, and help others where you can, inner strength will rise to the surface and proclaim "This too shall pass".
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

          Write on Paul -

          Please send me $100k so I can pay off my bills. LOLOLOLOL
          Are you in SFI? So is my wife, and we have a group of 11-15 year old school kids in our Young Executive Institute, where we train them entrepreneurial skills. Many of them are making more than their parents selling SFI and other affiliate products offline. Their savings account (yes in a solvent bank) would boggle your mind. There really is gold in SFI - great products - especially the cleaners.

          There are people looking for home businesses especially right now. I just don't understand why folks here don't really seem to be into internet marketing to make money. You have to make money to invest, and Warriors Forum is the best forum I know of to learn how. There are lots of opportunities out there, and we have a lot of people to help us. Check out the Internet Marketing and WSO forums. After all, this is called the Warriors for a reason, and not the Whiners. We all joined to learn how to make money, right?

          Investing should be part of a plan to wealth. If you need $100k just to pay off bills, you have a big problem that is not going away even if do you get the money. You can't run your household like the government does. We've already been through that.
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          • Profile picture of the author Patrician
            I don't have time for IM - it is just a hobby - my main business is virtual assistant and I work 12 hour days 6 days a week. 3 years without a vacation. The OT is my only fun! I am an operations person. I also do a lot of free mentoring and coaching.

            I love the industry and work with some biggies, but I just have never had much passion for marketing or sales. I just have fun with my sites sometimes.

            I remember being in Junior Achievement when I was a kid. That was a great thing - sounds like what you are doing with the kids. Good experience for them.

            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            If you need $100k just to pay off bills, you have a big problem that is not going away even if do you get the money. You can't run your household like the government does. We've already been through that.
            Well I threw in a several extra thousand dollars there (rounding inflation style - poetic license & KIDDING) but yeh I am in deep alright. Believe me I am not frivolous. Credit is a trap but necessary.
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        • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
          Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

          Write on Paul -

          Please send me $100k so I can pay off my bills. LOLOLOLOL
          He doesn't send anything, you have to travel to cali with a beggin' bowl. Where are you, you can hitch a ride with me. I've wanted to travel to sunny south cali and catch some waves in the pacific ocean

          10 hours a day 6 days a week, no vacation? It's time for a vacation, tsk tsk tsk. Grab a surfboard and ride some waves it's fun.
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          • Profile picture of the author Patrician
            I'm in Northern Cali - about 8 hours from Southern Cali. I am not begging with no bowl, girl; but the surf is always up - if you make it out here to the left coast, let me know. kowabunga! i even have a cute son you might like - so you will leave the surfer dudes to me. lol

            Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

            He doesn't send anything, you have to travel to cali with a beggin' bowl. Where are you, you can hitch a ride with me. I've wanted to travel to sunny south cali and catch some waves in the pacific ocean

            10 hours a day 6 days a week, no vacation? It's time for a vacation, tsk tsk tsk. Grab a surfboard and ride some waves it's fun.
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

            He doesn't send anything, you have to travel to cali with a beggin' bowl. Where are you, you can hitch a ride with me. I've wanted to travel to sunny south cali and catch some waves in the pacific ocean

            10 hours a day 6 days a week, no vacation? It's time for a vacation, tsk tsk tsk. Grab a surfboard and ride some waves it's fun.
            You know the terms! Come on down. No need for a begging bowl. My little guys - from the Young Executive Institute will give you money and food. They are being taught to donate 10% of their profits to charity. Be warned though - they might put you to work in one of 14 soup kitchens and shelters that I sponsor.

            Beggars are served with dignity and respect, and taught new skills of making and managing money. Kind of like what the Warrior gurus teach here in the upper class forums.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Somebody made big bucks by shorting the market! I bet these are the very same greedy bankers on Wall Street who brought us this crisis in the first place! I say let's shoot the traitors!
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      It seems funny to hear this coming out of such a cute picture. You look too sweet to shoot anybody. LOL

      Anyway, sudden death is too good for them. Much better to disgrace them, ruin their careers, put them in prison and take all the money they stole. Maybe we could pull out one finger nail at a time after that just for fun.:p

      I can see the headlines: 'and the gunman on the grassy knoll wore pink rompers and Luvs diapers'...




      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      Somebody made big bucks by shorting the market! I bet these are the very same greedy bankers on Wall Street who brought us this crisis in the first place! I say let's shoot the traitors!
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Not sure how this one is going to work out unless we prosecute - the free market has never been grabbed by the Gov like it just has been - they've been working this for a lot of years now - continual fed caused booms and busts. This time they allowed every form of financial illegality to go unbridled. Then they seized permission to use OUR money as they please any time they please.
        And people tilt their head because they don't understand the onset of fascism like the Germans do. I just wish I could get time to read that entire bill to find out exactly how bad this is going to get before we can end it. It appears to have included investigations - but we saw how those go in the Judicial hearings on impeachment - (oh yeah, they are lying, murdering, thieving *******s. Yawn. Impeachment? oh now, that would be a hassle").

        And it comes when?.....just when we were about to be freed from the FDR bankruptcy mess through which we've been controlled for decades. Gee - go figure. No, no manipulation here....nothing to see....move along.
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        Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      Somebody made big bucks by shorting the market! I bet these are the very same greedy bankers on Wall Street who brought us this crisis in the first place! I say let's shoot the traitors!
      No, the greedy bankers on Wall Street are waiting for their bail-out checks. I was one that made some bucks today though, among millions of others. Sorry. Actually didn't short the market, got in low, came out high on a few positions as day trading. Could be a great way to pick up extra cash over the next few months or so.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    The Dow is going down again, the shorters are having a great time again!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Wright
      Bernanke is set to cut Fed interest rate.
      I doubt that will persuade the few banks left
      to go on a lending spree ... or consumers on
      a buying spree.

      more relevant stuff at
      Bloomberg.com

      Also, the UK/EU countries finance ministers have all
      been having a crisis and gameplan meeting in Brussels.

      AND, Mr Bloomberg has been in London chatting with
      Gordon Brown and others. Seems a great pal of Paulson.
      Guess he was sounding out the UK/EU intentions in
      resolving the economic devastation.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    It is not only rate cuts they are looking at. They are also looking at bailing out commercial paper as well as unsecuritized debts. The spate of printing money is just so mind-boggling and inflationary.

    If millions of people make millions through day trades at this moment, I say good luck to them. I suppose millions of people got in when the DOW plunged 600 points yesterday and then made tons of moneyas they got out before the DOW closed just down 500 points.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      It is not only rate cuts they are looking at. They are also looking at bailing out commercial paper as well as unsecuritized debts. The spate of printing money is just so mind-boggling and inflationary.

      If millions of people make millions through day trades at this moment, I say good luck to them. I suppose millions of people got in when the DOW plunged 600 points yesterday and then made tons of moneyas they got out before the DOW closed just down 500 points.
      Holding on today, got really wild. Still scooping up bargain stocks, don't want to announce which ones here because it is dicey. But look for stocks that are down 50% or more in energy, technology, even auto industry. Hold for 3-5 years. Worked for me in last big three downturns. This is a long-term opportunity, and don't use money you need for at least the next 3 years. Like a dam, this is building, and I expect a breakout, perhaps going as low as 7500?
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Well I have found a big salad bowl to go beggin with to myob's house lol Of course with gas prices, it will still be a huge loss. I'm too impatient to drive all the way to Cali, I'll have to hop on a plane. Myob better fill it with hundreds or that will be an expensive beggin' bowl, surfin' trip.

    How old is your son?
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Get to the Sacramento airport and we will roll up to SoCal in style along the coast and hit every beach between here and there.

      My son is over 21. (close as I get, as that already divulges that I have been 29 at least 10 times.)

      Since people are assumed brain-dead after 30, well you know I never get there.


      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      Well I have found a big salad bowl to go beggin with to myob's house lol Of course with gas prices, it will still be a huge loss. I'm too impatient to drive all the way to Cali, I'll have to hop on a plane. Myob better fill it with hundreds or that will be an expensive beggin' bowl, surfin' trip.

      How old is your son?
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

        Get to the Sacramento airport and we will roll up to SoCal in style along the coast and hit every beach between here and there.

        My son is over 21. (close as I get, as that already divulges that I have been 29 at least 10 times.)

        Since people are assumed brain-dead after 30, well you know I never get there.
        If you land at Los Angeles Airport, go right here for all you can eat soup and sandwiches

        Los Angeles Mission
        303 East 5th Street
        Los Angeles, CA 90013

        I will give you $1,000 cash if you work for me just five days at the mission, plus lodging and all you can eat for restoring hope to a hungry and hurting community during this holiday season.
        Donations also accepted (Payable to Los Angeles Mission, a 501c organization)

        Call:
        Paul Uhl
        "The BIG Fat Capitalistic PIG with a Heart"
        (818) 300-5044
        or send a pm
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        • Profile picture of the author Patrician
          We will drive - but that will be great, we could work for a week to pay for the trip! AG can leave her bowl home.

          Very nice of you, Big Fat CPWAH

          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          If you land at Los Angeles Airport, go right here for all you can eat soup and sandwiches

          Los Angeles Mission
          303 East 5th Street
          Los Angeles, CA 90013

          I will give you $1,000 cash if you work for me just five days at the mission, plus lodging and all you can eat for restoring hope to a hungry and hurting community during this holiday season.
          Donations also accepted (Payable to Los Angeles Mission, a 501c organization)

          Call:
          Paul Uhl
          "The BIG Fat Capitalistic PIG with a Heart"
          (818) 300-5044
          or send a pm
          Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Over 21? We all know you had him when you were 12 so you can state his specific age and not be considered old. :p If he's younger than 28, he's too young for me :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      pretty tricky AG, I almost said he .......

      you can trust me... we will all have a great time and age is only important if you are cheese.

      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      Over 21? We all know you had him when you were 12 so you can state his specific age and not be considered old. :p If he's younger than 28, he's too young for me :p
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  • Profile picture of the author bendiggs
    The markets are terrifying right now, but I still hold out hope that things are going to get better there in the long run. I am pretty heavily invested in bonds in my portfolio, but all of my other investments are tanking so badly taht I am still down almost 25%. This is miniscule in comparison to some of my friends who have invested in higher risk portfolios than I have.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    I'm still gonna bring a beggin' bowl, cause airplane flights are expensive. And if nothing gets put in it, I'll just fill it up with soup
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    If it gets to 7500 or below, our economy and business would probably be dead. As far as begging is concerned, you can count me in. But instead of money, gold, diamonds or whatever for my begging bowl, I would like a lorryload of food and clean water instead, as well as guns and amnunition to defend myself!
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      If it gets to 7500 or below, our economy and business would probably be dead. As far as begging is concerned, you can count me in. But instead of money, gold, diamonds or whatever for my begging bowl, I would like a lorryload of food and clean water instead, as well as guns and amnunition to defend myself!
      We don't ship, and you'll have to bring your own container. The generosity of my little tykes knows no bounds, but you will need to pitch in and help these 11 year old entrepreneurs load your stuff. They are only used to handling money, soup, and free complimentary copies of "Atlas Shrugged" for every beggar.
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  • Profile picture of the author Indiana
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Market target price: 7500. Hope you all enjoyed the roller coaster ride today. You should have bought some tickets.
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  • Profile picture of the author bendiggs
    Right now it is pretty near impossible to predicte when the stock market will stop plummeting and bottom out. I am expecting theat somewhere in the mid 7000's is a fairly safe guess, and at this point I am actually hoping that you are right that it only goes that low.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      The lower the better. My investor group is buying up as much stock as possible when it hits new bottoms. Targets are major industrials, energy, technology, banking, and automotive where the fundamentals of the companies are otherwise sound. We could be wrong, but bets are out to 5+ yrs.
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