by The Copy Nazi Banned
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What a weekend.

Last week I get approached by a guy do his copy. I spend some time with him going over his site and suggesting things. But from the questions and answers I'm getting I could tell he wasn't going to be a good client. So I tell him so. Tell him if he can't afford me he's better off doing it himself or going eleswhere. I actually said to him words along the lines of "I don't think we're a good fit. I'm afraid you're going to be what I call "a high-maintenance client" and frankly at the moment I don't need that." So then I find he's contacted at least one colleague over the same gig and to the guy's credit he said "Go with Malkie - he'll do a good job for you".

So then the guy comes back to me with "Have a look at my site. Seeing as though I've done some of the changes already would you consider working for half your fee". I look at his site. See he's taken what I've told him and made a few changes. Not correctly but its better than what he had before. So I email back "Dude it still sounds like you can't afford me. Saw you applied some of my suggestions. No I won't work for half my fee. Nice try".

He writes back "I don't have enough money in my PayPal right now. Will you accept $XXX and the rest on completion of the job?"

I reply "No...my terms and conditions are blah blah blah". (I've been caught before so I always ask for payment up front these days. Tends to sort the sheep from the goats.)

Long story short, I discount my fee by $300 because I fall for his sob story and cut him some slack. Write him what is possibly some of the best copy I've ever written and...you know what's coming next don't you?...he rejects it. Even though I've gone to the trouble to warn him that its a bold concept and he mightn't understand it blah blah blah.

But I also say "Look there's no worries if you hate this. I know for a fact I can sell this to an existing client for book rate. And then I'll just write you something else". So I do. Sell it, I mean. In two seconds flat. The guy loves it. Says "I-want-that-copy...do not let that other guy have it" and pays me toot sweet. Book rate.

Then first matey changes his mind. Re-reads the copy and say its a Frank Kern-like masterpiece (actually uses those words) and he wants it. "Too late" I say. Sold. No can do. The horse has bolted.

He begs. I tell him again its too late. "You sure?" he says. Again and again. In different begging emails and Skype messages. Then it starts to get irritating so I just tell him to keep some of the copy I've written for him and I refund his money. He sends it back. I refund it again. Then he PayPals what I originally quoted. He stills wants the copy. I tell him for like the Millionth time "I can't give it to you...you rejected it...I've sold the concept to another client and we'll modify the copy for his product. I offer to write him a similar piece of copy. With a similar concept. He agrees.

[you still here? It gets better, I promise]

So away I go again. Deliver the copy. He throws it up. Ignores my formatting so obviously it doesn't look too hot. I contact him with changes I want made. He does some of them. Even ignores some of my copy and drops in his crappy sub-par English (he's from the sub-continent). I tell him it won't do. Its important stuff. Every little thing is important. He's leaving in BS like ("Only 2 copies left") - its been there for weeks even though, judging from the comments, he's made more than 2 sales. I tell him its "misrepresentation" and the FTC could do him over it. Also tell him to add a earnings disclaimer to his site.

Today's Sunday. Supposedly the day of rest. Matey has been Skyping and emailing me all day. Driving me crazy. Asking advice and then ignoring it. Doesn't do what I tell him to do with the page formatting and the copy. Then he wants to "split-test" it. Wants to run my copy for an hour and then his to see which makes more sales. Some split-test eh?

This has gone on all day. I turn off Skype. He switches to email. I get one saying he's put his old copy back up, made two sales and therefore he feels my copy isn't working - "sorry it didn't work out, I've lost confidence in you, please refund my money".

You can imagine my reaction. "Yeah that's alright pal..you've just picked my brains for a week...applied some of my advice...mucked me around...wasted days of my valuable time - yeah that must qualify for a full refund. Tell you what...why don't I throw in a trip to Disneyland while I'm at it?" (I actually said none of this. What I did say to him is unprintable)

And this is a bit weird - I got contacted on Skype by some guy pointing me to his site. Came from here on the Forum. Seems he wants to go to college and needs to raise $2k to do it. Has bad credit so can't get a loan. Has the idea of sleeping in his car to save money on rent - while he works two jobs and blogs about it. Hopefully sending it viral. One problem - he doesn't have a car. Needs to raise $2k to buy one. But says "not trying to sell you anything or hustle you lol ...its all honest, I promise". Sure. He just wants to borrow $500 for six months.

There's an idea there somewhere. Says he was coding software apps in middle school and reading 1000 page books on software design. And is taking the GED test next week.

Funny thing is when I asked him if he wanted to build a website for me and I'd pay him, he says he doesn't do websites for other people. Then after some more banter says "Well I have to go search for partners".

Is this the latest scam? Seen this before? Maybe he's legit but he sure as hell is pitching it the wrong way.
#bad things come in threes #happen
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    lol ... all I can say is I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend, what little there is left.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sara Young
      Clients...

      This is exactly why I stopped working for clients.
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Sara Young View Post

        Clients...

        This is exactly why I stopped working for clients.
        Yes I'm rapidly going that way myself. Working on a product launch at the moment. Funny thing is...this copy is smoking. I hang my Don Draper hat on it. But bozo couldn't see it. And you've got to wonder why he came to me in the first place.
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        • How funny... But I totally understand you. I had a similar encounter, a while ago, with a client who wanted to hire me for some articles. After hours of negotiating back and forth through messenger, and me threatening to close the window and leave, we finally agreed on a price. Three hours later he was asking for the articles even though I told him I would have them for him the next day, because of a project I had due that night. Anyway, once I delivered the articles, can you believe he had the audacity to say that because the sample articles he requested at the end of the negotiation were of slightly less words than what we agreed on, he was going to pay me less. Oh, I was fuming. I told him it was an insult to my professionalism and my talent. Just to get rid of him I agree on the slightly lower rate but told him I would not longer do business with him unless he paid full price. That he was very rude, disrespectful and inconsiderate.

          SO, I feel for you!!!
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          • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
            Banned
            Originally Posted by ContentArticleWriter View Post

            How funny... But I totally understand you. I had a similar encounter, a while ago, with a client who wanted to hire me for some articles. After hours of negotiating back and forth through messenger, and me threatening to close the window and leave, we finally agreed on a price. Three hours later he was asking for the articles even though I told him I would have them for him the next day, because of a project I had due that night. Anyway, once I delivered the articles, can you believe he had the audacity to say that because the sample articles he requested at the end of the negotiation were of slightly less words than what we agreed on, he was going to pay me less. Oh, I was fuming. I told him it was an insult to my professionalism and my talent. Just to get rid of him I agree on the slightly lower rate but told him I would not longer do business with him unless he paid full price. That he was very rude, disrespectful and inconsiderate.

            SO, I feel for you!!!
            I could cut and paste all the emails and Skypes and put them into a book. Call it "Copywriting Confidential - adventures in the internet marketing underbelly". It would make for fascinating reading I'm sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Wow...this almost makes me glad I'm not a great copywriter. I can't imagine the stuff you guys have to go through! Yowza!!

    Well, at least try to enjoy the rest of the weekend...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Don't you get tired of BS stories? That's why I don't design websites for anyone any more unless the person is personally recommended to me by someone I know and trust. Even then I won't automatically take them on, first I pick the prospective client's brain to try and figure out if he or she would be a good client or high maintenance.

    I'm married, that's all the high maintenance I need!
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author moneyblogger1
      hahaha I am married too! I hear ya brother lol!

      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Don't you get tired of BS stories? That's why I don't design websites for anyone any more unless the person is personally recommended to me by someone I know and trust. Even then I won't automatically take them on, first I pick the prospective client's brain to try and figure out if he or she would be a good client or high maintenance.

      I'm married, that's all the high maintenance I need!
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    • Profile picture of the author Maddi
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post


      I'm married, that's all the high maintenance I need!
      Priceless... awesome Dennis.

      @Malcolm: I look forward to reading Copywriting Confidential - adventures in the internet marketing underbelly.

      I am sorry for your loss[of time] mate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sue McDonald
    Had a similar situation but not to that degree. One of the local businesses that I used to frequent wanted me to drive their site up in the Google rankings. They asked how I did it and I actually told them. I was supposed to go there and work and the owner rang and said she was too busy. That was four weeks ago when she said she would ring me back. I gave them a lot of information for free. No more, learnt my lesson. I will only do it now for myself and my business partner. Wasn't even looking for clients at the time and now I am sure I don't want clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary King
    Um,wow.

    Amazing. It's the old "I'm hiring you because you're the expert (by the way can I have a discount) but when you pour your soul into something that has to be done this second (did I mention the discount I wanted) don't worry, I'll tell you that it wasn't fast enough and ignore all your expertise and tell you the way it should be done (and please, don't forget the discount).

    Sorry man... have an awesome week to make up for it! :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Melanie Crouse
    Aww man that really sucks. Sounds like you have way more patience than I do!

    I think you have the makings of The Copywriters' Soap Opera!
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Melanie Crouse View Post

      Aww man that really sucks. Sounds like you have way more patience than I do!

      I think you have the makings of The Copywriters' Soap Opera!
      Hold the front page -

      I.M. Copywriter Loses it - Tracks Down & Kills Client
      ...read all about it!
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  • Profile picture of the author affilorama-portal
    Back in the days when I was still doing websites for clients I had a similar experience. Guy kept calling and emailing and adding all sorts of things to be done that were not included in the original agreement. On calls he would wander to so many different topics instead of sticking to the business on hand, thus taking up much more of my time than what was necessary. And he does not really listen to recommendations that would have made his life easier. So I dropped him. He was becoming too much of a pain in the you know what. Stopped answering his calls and emails. He is still sending emails, by the way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
    Man, I feel for you!

    I had one of the copywriters I use tell me a similar story just after it had happened to him. He said, "You know Roy, this job would be great it it wasn't for the customers!"

    I must say that my mentoring clients know that my weekends are totally sacrosanct. You gotta give yourself some space to refresh.

    Roy
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Roy Carter View Post

      Man, I feel for you!

      I had one of the copywriters I use tell me a similar story just after it had happened to him. He said, "You know Roy, this job would be great it it wasn't for the customers!"

      I must say that my mentoring clients know that my weekends are totally sacrosanct. You gotta give yourself some space to refresh.

      Roy
      Was seriously thinking of not working today but I've got jets lined up on the strip waiting to take off.

      Know what else pees me off about this guy? He's marketing under an assumed name and photo - pretending to be North American when in reality he's from India. Even on this board. So if a false blogger is a flogger, what do you call somebody with a false site? A slogger?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dital
    I would call em a troller
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