OMG - another disaster? Enough already! | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

14 years ago

Hey Kay,

A long time ago I used to work on sea-going tug boats in the Gulf...We towed a lot of oil rigs, and "ran anchors and pipes"....

Yes, we towed rigs, huge rigs across the Gulf of Mexico...Each is like a huge building/tower...

People don't understand that those rigs are only tied down with anchors, two on each corner. When an oil field dries up, they are towed to a new location. Then, the tug boats take the rig's anchors and runs them out about a mile, then drops them.

They are far from permanent and if those anchors drag or a line snaps, there's nothing protecting the drill shaft, no foundation, etc.

The "drill baby drill" boneheads that say off-shore drilling is safe for the environment are so !%$#$$ of @#$$#. Let them come clean up this mess. I'll donate $2 for a bottle of Dawn.

Can't we just do the solar/wind/wave/natural gas thing already?

Thanks

Signature

Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2036836].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

I was going to say something about dawn myself, but you beat me to that. That is a BEAUTIFUL commercial. Like you though, I would rather wildlife didn't get hurt, and that the commercial was simply a parody or something.

BTW just so you know, TANKERS get hurt ALSO, and can lead to the same disaster.

And, since the 70s, I HAVE said we should go solar, or something similar. We had the technology in 1970 and NOW, we have BETTER batteries, BETTER motors, BETTER designs, and BETTER solar cells. Sadly, though, at the rate we are going, it may be another 30 years before we realize the dream I once had, of the US using practically NO gas. I'll probably be near death by then. 8-( At least it is better than when I was a kid. THEN, I couldn't be NEAR buses in closed areas. I am hypersensitive to the exhaust. NOW, they are FAR better. NOW, if only they got rid of that stupid noise they often make after they stop. I am hypersensitive to THAT also!

And Kurt is right, the floating rig concept is STUPID! It limits the ability to have more stable construction from the base of the ocean to the rig, and is more likely to fail. WHO thinks that stuff up? SURE it is cheaper and easier, but the lack of safety isn't worth it.

Steve

Thanks
3 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2037018].message }}

Kay King

14 years ago

We have the technology for berm housing, solar, wind power - the goal should be to cut down on oil use drastically.

I didn't know those platforms weren't "built" - but I do know the experts are very surprised it sunk. Is the only thing holding those platforms in place just some anchors and pipe?

I also thought since the Valdez disaster there had been great strides in prevent or stopping spills but apparently that's not the case when the well is still spewing oil 24/7.

The idea that we are planning to put these monstrosities all up and down the east coast and more of them in the Gulf is nuts.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

One secret to happiness is to let every situation be

what it is instead of what you think it should be.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2037041].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

We have the technology for berm housing, solar, wind power - the goal should be to cut down on oil use drastically.

I didn't know those platforms weren't "built" - but I do know the experts are very surprised it sunk. Is the only thing holding those platforms in place just some anchors and pipe?

I also thought since the Valdez disaster there had been great strides in prevent or stopping spills but apparently that's not the case when the well is still spewing oil 24/7.

The idea that we are planning to put these monstrosities all up and down the east coast and more of them in the Gulf is nuts.

Well, a fixed rig wouldn't have sunk. actually, I think two hulls is about the max.

When I spoke of solar, I meant for things like cars. Of course, homes have MORE options. HECK, you could EVEN, conceivably, have some organic waste in a compost with a thermolectric generator(I forget the actual name, but it is OLD technology) and use a heat exchanger(even OLDER technology) and not only HEAT a home, but provide some power. It would ALSO provide some clean fertilizer and/or topsoil! Just one MINOR example of the use of basically three VERY old technologies. One is perhaps thousands of years old, another hundreds, and another several decades, to solve a few problems. A car probabloy couldn't hold enough waste to get enough power to make it viable. 8-(

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2037127].message }}

ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Well, a fixed rig wouldn't have sunk. actually, I think two hulls is about the max.

When I spoke of solar, I meant for things like cars. Of course, homes have MORE options. HECK, you could EVEN, conceivably, have some organic waste in a compost with a thermolectric generator(I forget the actual name, but it is OLD technology) and use a heat exchanger(even OLDER technology) and not only HEAT a home, but provide some power. It would ALSO provide some clean fertilizer and/or topsoil! Just one MINOR example of the use of basically three VERY old technologies. One is perhaps thousands of years old, another hundreds, and another several decades, to solve a few problems. A car probabloy couldn't hold enough waste to get enough power to make it viable. 8-(

Steve

Naturally I studied decomposition in my three soils classes in college.
It could be possible but you would have to have a constant supply of compost material as it takes a day or so for the process to start and is limited in time of heating by the amount and type of material.
The pile heats to 190 F. by the way.

I went to answers to see what they had to say and found these little gems, good for a laugh.

Does hyena speed up decomposition?
You could say that, if you consider eating dead animals to be speeding up decomposition.

Is decomposition possible without heat?
Heat is a relative term. Hot, as in cooking or a very warm day, or room temperature. Freezing can be 32 to -32. Decomposition usually describes something being eaten by microbes that turn the large...

What is the speed of heat?
You are soooooooo! thick it travels at 132.703 KPH by the way I'M ONLY EIGHT

Does salt speed up corrosion?
Yes. Just ask my poor fishing rod.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2037366].message }}

Kay King 14 years ago

Latest local report (and you better believe we are paying attention here):

Oil is leaking at 42,000 barrels a day - the oil slick is now 18000 sq miles - it has tripled in size in the past 24-30 hours.

Worse, it is now 21 miles southwest of Chandeleur Islands (easternmost part of Louisiana) - and Chandeleur Islands is 24 miles south of the Gulf Coast National Seashore....where I live...and the wind is blowing it to the northeast. This is not good at all.

The big problem is one leaders need to give thought to. This well is a mile below sea level - and the experts have no idea how to cap a well that deep. However, that is the depth which is being proposed for a lot of new rigs in the planning stages.

Currently they are talking about burning off the oil if they can - but if they don't do it soon it threatens two of the most precarious wetlands areas on the Gulf Coast - Chandeleur and the GC National Seashore - which are only now recovering from Katrina devastation.

Fishing is a big industry here and this is oyster spawning season in the gulf We will soon be in shrimp season here - may have some oily tasting seafood this year. All along the coast the fishermen are really worried and upset about this.

I sure hope all those high paid experts come up with something - fast.

kay
- Thanks
Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
what it is instead of what you think it should be.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2037424].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

You can't use a fixed platform at the depths they were drilling. The platform that exploded was meant for depths of up to 10,000 feet.

Originally Posted by seasoned

And Kurt is right, the floating rig concept is STUPID! It limits the ability to have more stable construction from the base of the ocean to the rig, and is more likely to fail. WHO thinks that stuff up? SURE it is cheaper and easier, but the lack of safety isn't worth it.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2037279].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You can't use a fixed platform at the depths they were drilling. The platform that exploded was meant for depths of up to 10,000 feet.

WELL, Considering that eveery foot of depth increases the risk, that is another reason not to drill there.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038054].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

I agree with you!!!

Originally Posted by seasoned

WELL, Considering that eveery foot of depth increases the risk, that is another reason not to drill there.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038391].message }}

ThomM

14 years ago

Kay I'm not really up on this kind of stuff so can you explain this to me.
How is starting this crude on fire a good idea when they can't stop the supply of crude from continuing to feed the fire?

Thanks
3 replies

Signature

Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038484].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Kay I'm not really up on this kind of stuff so can you explain this to me.
How is starting this crude on fire a good idea when they can't stop the supply of crude from continuing to feed the fire?

Some people are just IDIOTS! It is WELL KNOWN that burning gas creates polution! But we aren't talking about merely gas! Burning OIL creates pollution! But we aren't REALLY talking about oil! KEROSENE creates pollution, but we aren't talking about that! TAR creates pollution, but we aren;t talking about THAT! WHAT are we talking about? *****CRUDE***** oil! It has ALL of the above in it and THEN some! So even if things were plugged up, burning it off would be bad, and that is just considering POLLUTION, and not the heat, fire, sediment, etc....

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038523].message }}

ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Some people are just IDIOTS! It is WELL KNOWN that burning gas creates polution! But we aren't talking about merely gas! Burning OIL creates pollution! But we aren't REALLY talking about oil! KEROSENE creates pollution, but we aren't talking about that! TAR creates pollution, but we aren;t talking about THAT! WHAT are we talking about? *****CRUDE***** oil! It has ALL of the above in it and THEN some! So even if things were plugged up, burning it off would be bad, and that is just considering POLLUTION, and not the heat, fire, sediment, etc....

Steve

It was the pollution I was thinking about.
Now the oil in the water is nothing you want to reach a shore line, I understand all that.
But won't burning it release pollutants and toxins that could cover even larger areas and further inland?
Or are they hoping the wind will blow them some where else?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038682].message }}

Kay King 14 years ago

They pull portions of the oil slick away with booms and burn small areas. Now they say they will try it tomorrow - maybe - but some of the oil has congealed into sludge and they can't burn that.

There are hundreds of boats now trying to contain the spill and pick up the sludge - but a third leak was found today so that's not good.

Currently the only answer they have to stopping the 42,000+ gallons pouring into the water every day is to drill another well (not sure how that works). But they say say though the plan to begin to drill this week it will take months to do it.

Months of 42,000 gallons of oil leaking into the gulf every day? The small sub couldn't cap the well - and the method that was supposed to be a failsafe to cap it failed.

A shrimper (he owns four large shrimp boats) was telling me today how worried he is - he still has debt he's paying off for replacing boats after Katrina.

There is very little expert advice being provided to the leaders of the coastal counties. That may be because there's nothing we can do except wait and see - and be ready to capture and try to save wildlife wherever the oil comes ashore.

kay
- Thanks
Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
what it is instead of what you think it should be.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038857].message }}

Kurt

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Kay I'm not really up on this kind of stuff so can you explain this to me.
How is starting this crude on fire a good idea when they can't stop the supply of crude from continuing to feed the fire?

It will keep burning until the well runs dry. Setting an oil slick on fire is a last-ditch act of desperation...

Thanks

Signature

Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038533].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

It seems they have two options to try to stop the leak: 1. cap the well using a blowout preventer. They are now trying this using robots. This is the quickest solution if it works. 2. Drilling new wells to extract the oil. This can take months.

Originally Posted by ThomM

Kay I'm not really up on this kind of stuff so can you explain this to me.
How is starting this crude on fire a good idea when they can't stop the supply of crude from continuing to feed the fire?

Thanks

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038589].message }}

Kurt

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

And Kurt is right, the floating rig concept is STUPID! It limits the ability to have more stable construction from the base of the ocean to the rig, and is more likely to fail. WHO thinks that stuff up? SURE it is cheaper and easier, but the lack of safety isn't worth it.

Steve

I never said it was stupid. Actually, I think they are engineering marvels. My point was that they are vulnerable, as is everything that was built by man and fights nature.

The floating rig does have some safety benefits...If a hurricane is forecast to be heading that way, the rig caps the well and is towed to a safe location until the storm passes.

But it just isn't worth it...The US has HUGE supplies of natural gas. Natural gas is cheaper and it's 2/3rds cleaner. And it's pretty easy to convert a car's engine to burn natural gas.

I've driven cabs that were powered by natural gas...A little "pingy" but no big deal at all. We could start converting cars to natural gas tomorrow while we work on getting the grid to support wind/solar for electricity.

I understand that big oil wants to make their money, but I don't understand why they can't start making money by producing natural gas.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038560].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I never said it was stupid. Actually, I think they are engineering marvels. My point was that they are vulnerable, as is everything that was built by man and fights nature.

The floating rig does have some safety benefits...If a hurricane is forecast to be heading that way, the rig caps the well and is towed to a safe location until the storm passes.

But it just isn't worth it...The US has HUGE supplies of natural gas. Natural gas is cheaper and it's 2/3rds cleaner. And it's pretty easy to convert a car's engine to burn natural gas.

I've driven cabs that were powered by natural gas...A little "pingy" but no big deal at all. We could start converting cars to natural gas tomorrow while we work on getting the grid to support wind/solar for electricity.

I understand that big oil wants to make their money, but I don't understand why they can't
start making money by producing natural gas.

Yeah, there are a number of vehicles powered by CNG. In logan airport, I know that most of those buses are.

And YEAH, everything that deals with rough terrain or environment can be risky, etc... By stupid I simply meant that the risk just wasn't worth it, as you said. Like a stupid investment. Even most of the WORST investments can make yo a lot of money. People may call someone investing in them stupid just because the risk is too great, etc....

Heck, my artificial aorta has the same sort of problem. It is hard to get to, service, or replace, and so much could go wrong. I have CT scans every year just to see if it is OK. I certainly wouldn't have gotten it to prevent further damage. But it was the best option to keep living, once I had the dissection. In the US, we use FAR more gas than we should. There are certainly other choices.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038623].message }}

HeySal

14 years ago

Well gee Kay. They HAVE to drill on that coast. How the hell else do they get to Mexico's oil supply and start a war with them? Gesh. Like environment matters or something. You'll never make a politician.

BTW.........God Speed saving those creatures if it hits and thank you for joining that effort. Were there a way I could be there to rescue, I would be. Trust me on that one.

Thanks

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2037601].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

What ever happened to all the biological things they were talking about when this happened before? And with all the machines they have they have no ability to have some device pick up some of the oilspill? Heck, I'm surprised they didn't have some kind of disconnect in case excess pressure was put on the line.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038572].message }}

designfuschion

14 years ago

Yep it is ridiculous.(The whole oil spill thing)
A few weeks back,here in the land downunder, a chinese tanker took a shortcut through the great barrier reef. It crashed and spilled oil. Did the government go in and start cleaning it up?-No. Did the chinese captain care?- No.

Sad thing is,i'm sure back in late 90's, technology was developed to clean up oil spills pretty quickly. They discovered that human hair in stocking like material soaks up oil better than anything else.

My question is-Why didn't the stupid qld premier Anna Bligh go in and start cleaning it up? (she isn't liked either by alot of people). Now there will be a dead patch in the beautiful great barrier reef.
As if the reef hasn't got enough problems with global warming/coral bleaching to deal with.
If i remember the news correctly,the chinese captain has basically been slapped on the hand,gets to walk away and pay something like $20,000. (Or some fraction to the real cost).

I'm going to stop before i start getting angry and regret saying something.

Thanks

Signature

Wordpress Install service. PM me for rates and packages or what you need and we can work something out.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038635].message }}

Jamesyfws

14 years ago

The reason the oil companies drill off shore is because the environuts won't let them drill on land. Obama and his thugs have recended all of the lands that Bush opened up for drilling.
They are in the process of declaring 13 million acres of several states as monuments and permanently protected lands.
The U.S. has more known oil and gas reserves in the lower 48 states and Alaska than all the middle east combined.
There is thousands of barrels of oil seeping out of the ocean floor off of California that is creating major oil and tar pollution on the beaches since most of the off shore drilling and pumping was stopped.
There are portions of Long Beach and Los Angeles where oil is seeping out of the ground and causing streets to collapse and pollution problems since the cities forced the oil companies to shut down in those areas.
Anyone that thinks that oil can easily be replaced as an energy source by wind, solar, biomass, etc., needs to really do some research into the pros and cons before jumping to blanket statements.
I am so sick and tired of environuts comming up with pie in the sky ideas that don't work in the real world.
Some of these ideas will work on a small scale, or under specific local conditions. But nothing has been developed that works under all of the conditons and locations as well as oil and natural gas.
And even when an alternate energy solution does work well in a particular area it is often times restricted or opposed by the same environuts that were promoting it a few years earlier.
A case in point, the wind generators in California. Starting back in the 70's and 80's the environuts were pushing hard for wind generators in California. But now they are pushing for them to be removed because they claim they are eyesores, to noisy, kill birds, kill rare insects, cause to much detrimental enviromental impact on the land, use to much land, etc..
And if you don't believe me, do some research on every thing I have said before you challenge my facts.
James

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038903].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

I'll just take one of your "facts" to prove wrong:

Oil reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by natural gas proven reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Jamesyfws

The U.S. has more known oil and gas reserves in the lower 48 states and Alaska than all the middle east combined.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038968].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I'll just take one of your "facts" to prove wrong:

Oil reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by natural gas proven reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't really say, but it doesn't matter. The US has ENOUGH to be reasonable. But ONE word makes your claim MEANINGLESS!!!!!!! ****PROVEN****! You see, for a LOT of reasons, many areas aren't even looked at.

STILL, if there is enough, WHO CARES!?!?!?

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2039928].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

Are you talking about unknown knowns or known unknowns? Or do you know what the hell you are even talking about?

Originally Posted by seasoned

I can't really say, but it doesn't matter. The US has ENOUGH to be reasonable. But ONE word makes your claim MEANINGLESS!!!!!!! ****PROVEN****! You see, for a LOT of reasons, many areas aren't even looked at.

STILL, if there is enough, WHO CARES!?!?!?

Steve

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040542].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Are you talking about unknown knowns or known unknowns? Or do you know what the hell you are even talking about?

If there is enough oil, it dosn't matter who has more. It is almost like who has more nukes. WHO CARES!?

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040632].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

Well, there isn't enough. That was simple.

However, I was arguing with James before you butted in with all your pompous capital letters and exclamation marks. My point was the Middle east obviously has more oil reserves than the US. Do you have information that says otherwise besides that there are a "LOT" of areas that we haven't looked at? Because that answer just doesn't cut it.

Originally Posted by seasoned

If there is enough oil, it dosn't matter who has more. It is almost like who has more nukes. WHO CARES!?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040654].message }}

ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Well, there isn't enough. That was simple.

However, I was arguing with James before you butted in with all your pompous capital letters and exclamation marks. My point was the Middle east obviously has more oil reserves than the US. Do you have information that says otherwise besides that there are a "LOT" of areas that we haven't looked at? Because that answer just doesn't cut it.

Here ya go Tim.
File:World Oil Reserves by Region.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kay I just saw on the news the film of the burn off.
That is some ugly stuff going on.
They did say that the pollution from the burn will be bad, but it's sorta the lesser of two evils.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040733].message }}

TimPhelan 14 years ago

Thanks Thom. Somehow that won't be good enough for James though.

Originally Posted by ThomM

Here ya go Tim.
File:World Oil Reserves by Region.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature
Over 50 Dating
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040774].message }}
- ThomM 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  Thanks Thom. Somehow that won't be good enough for James though.
  
  Doesn't matter
  I was surprised where Canada ranked though, didn't see that coming.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
  Getting old ain't for sissy's
  As you are I was, as I am you will be
  You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040784].message }}

Kay King

14 years ago

To those in this thread who are not here to promote their political views -

Frightening news today - it seems the oil leaking into the Gulf is NOT the 1000 barrels a day (42,000 gallons) as we've been told for days.

It's actually 5000 barrels a day - that's 210,000 gallons a day! BP said this morning they would welcome help from the military - the oil company seems to be running a few days behind what needs to be done. The oil has now moved to 16 miles offshore and is still growing.

It was reported this morning by a drilling specialist that though this platform was advanced in design - "we" are not building platforms with remote control shutoff valves used by other drilling nations.

Why is that, do you think? Because the "expert testimony" about the need for such technology comes from oil companies who don't want to pay for them. How's that working for us now?

The response to this has been underwhelming - misinformation from BP, lack of information to coastal authorities on how to minimize damage - lack of attention in D.C.

kay

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

One secret to happiness is to let every situation be

what it is instead of what you think it should be.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040827].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

Funny, they supposedly had a bowling alley and movie theater on the platform but spending money on safety shutoff valves was too expensive?

Originally Posted by Kay King

It was reported this morning by a drilling specialist that though this platform was advanced in design - "we" are not building platforms with remote control shutoff valves used by other drilling nations.

Thanks

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040977].message }}

ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

To those in this thread who are not here to promote their political views -

Frightening news today - it seems the oil leaking into the Gulf is NOT the 1000 barrels a day (42,000 gallons) as we've been told for days.

It's actually 5000 barrels a day - that's 210,000 gallons a day! BP said this morning they would welcome help from the military - the oil company seems to be running a few days behind what needs to be done. The oil has now moved to 16 miles offshore and is still growing.

It was reported this morning by a drilling specialist that though this platform was advanced in design - "we" are not building platforms with remote control shutoff valves used by other drilling nations.

Why is that, do you think? Because the "expert testimony" about the need for such technology comes from oil companies who don't want to pay for them. How's that working for us now?

The response to this has been underwhelming - misinformation from BP, lack of information to coastal authorities on how to minimize damage - lack of attention in D.C.

kay

I mentioned earlier what the news said about it here.
With the exception of saying it's bad timing because the govt. is trying to push more offshore drilling, that is all.
It's like the news up here is telling us enough to be concerned, but holding back so we won't be outraged.
I've also noticed our gas prices have been steadily rising through all this.
I don't know if that is related or not though as the continuous rise seems to be in NY and Mass. with other states showing a slight increase then a slight decrease:confused:

Thanks

Signature

Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2041016].message }}

myob

14 years ago

Actually, there is enough oil. There are huge untapped oil resources in the North Atlantic (although pretty deep), and the Gulf has extensive PROVEN reserves. Unfortunately, oil is still too cheap compared to other energy sources. I know that the major oil companies are now heavily investing in research and production for solar, geothermal, hydrogen fuel cells, biofuels, and other exotic alternative energy sources. They are ready and it is available, but the cost is just too prohibitive compared to oil.

Even natural gas is becoming more available because the oil producers are investing in major pipeline networks. It's now at 23% of worldwide energy consumption, and is expected to increase to more than 50% by 2030.

But until oil becomes economically unattractive, including the production of natural gas as a by-product, we're going to have these kind of disasters and oil spills because the demand for oil just continues to rise.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040685].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

Oil is a limited resource. If your definition of "enough" is for the next few decades then yes we have enough. However, being a limited resource with an unlimited demand says to me we don't have enough. That's one of the reasons why those oil companies are investing in other energy sources.

Originally Posted by myob

Actually, there is enough oil.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040765].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Oil is a limited resource. If your definition of "enough" is for the next few decades then yes we have enough. However, being a limited resource with an unlimited demand says to me we don't have enough. That's one of the reasons why those oil companies are investing in other energy sources.

Well, enough or not, we have to get weaned off of it! And EVERYTHING is limited to some degree. By your definition, there isn't enough oil on the entire planet!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040863].message }}

myob

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Oil is a limited resource. If your definition of "enough" is for the next few decades then yes we have enough. However, being a limited resource with an unlimited demand says to me we don't have enough. That's one of the reasons why those oil companies are investing in other energy sources.

We will never run out of oil - only cheap oil. There will always be oil, but it will become more and more expensive to extract. For example, shale oil is almost as plentiful as coal, but it's too costly for production. And the United States, Canada, and Russia have claimed "territories" under the North Atlantic because of its untapped huge oil reserves. Oil will just get increasingly more expensive to extract until eventually the cost of alternative energy sources becomes more viable - long before we ever "run out". The major oil companies are aware of this and are hedging by investing in other energy sources.

Because of politics and environmentalists, oil companies are prohibited from exploring 85% of territorial waters and inland areas (preserves) in the US where there are estimated to be trillions of barrels of untapped oil. When people complain about high gas prices, they are supporting Big Oil to drill in these environmentally sensitive areas.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2041068].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

We will never run out of oil - only cheap oil. There will always be oil, but it will become more and more expensive to extract. For example, shale oil is almost as plentiful as coal, but it's too costly for production. And the United States, Canada, and Russia have claimed "territories" under the North Atlantic because of its untapped huge oil reserves. Oil will just get increasingly more expensive to extract until eventually the cost of alternative energy sources becomes more viable - long before we ever "run out". The major oil companies are aware of this and are hedging by investing in other energy sources.

Because of politics and environmentalists, oil companies are prohibited from exploring 85% of territorial waters and inland areas (preserves) in the US where there are estimated to be trillions of barrels of untapped oil. When people complain about high gas prices, they are supporting Big Oil to drill in these environmentally sensitive areas.

Don't forget, shale is hard! That NOT ONLY means expensive, difficult, and waste of a product that could be used for other things, it means a loss of structure to the PLANET!

I'm glad I won't be alive then. It will be like the comedies where people burn the furniture, TV, and even the homes STRUCTURE to keep warm. Eventually, it may COLLAPSE! I guess it is good we have such a limited ability to reach 75% of the planet. People worry enough just about the LIQUID!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2041135].message }}

Kurt

14 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

Actually, there is enough oil. There are huge untapped oil resources in the North Atlantic (although pretty deep), and the Gulf has extensive PROVEN reserves. Unfortunately, oil is still too cheap compared to other energy sources. I know that the major oil companies are now heavily investing in research and production for solar, geothermal, hydrogen fuel cells, biofuels, and other exotic alternative energy sources. They are ready and it is available, but the cost is just too prohibitive compared to oil.

Even natural gas is becoming more available because the oil producers are investing in major pipeline networks. It's now at 23% of worldwide energy consumption, and is expected to increase to more than 50% by 2030.

But until oil becomes economically unattractive, including the production of natural gas as a by-product, we're going to have these kind of disasters and oil spills because the demand for oil just continues to rise.

But these figures don't include the total costs...How much is the clean up in the Gulf going to cost? How much will be lost in revenue from things like fishing and tourism? We need to add this to the total cost.

How much do we spend on health care due to car emissions?

Or, how much of our military budget is spent protecting our foreign interests concerning oil? It's estimated that half of our military budget is used to protect US business interests over-seas. I wonder how much of that is to protect oil? I'd bet it's in the 100's of billions per year.

I saw an interview with Jimmy Carter...They asked him about nukes and he said he came VERY close to using nukes when the USSR invaded Afghanastan. He said if the Soviets had rolled through Afghanastan and taken control of the Middle East's oil fields he would have used nukes, as we are so dependant on oil, the USSR could have brought the US to its knees.

How much is a sense of security worth, knowing if we aren't dependant on foreign oil we are far less likely to get into a nuke war?

How about terrorism and sabotage? How hard do you think it would be for someone to intentionally blow up oil rigs in the Gulf? Aren't they really a huge security risk to the US? Isn't even the Alaskan pipe line a huge security risk?

When Eisenhower was president, he warned us to end being energy dependant on the Middle East.

Not to mention, the raw numbers don't include things that don't have a price...How much are the animals, plants, water, sand and environment worth that will be damaged by the oil slick? How do you put a number on that?

How much of an impact would it have on our economy if we kept the approx. $500 BILLION we send over seas every year, often to people that don't like us? Like T Boone Pickens says, it's the biggest give away of wealth in history.

Sure, switching to other energy sources will cause inflation...But will it reduce our actual life style? I say we will have a better life style if we switch, including more spending power due to the money being kept in the USA.

Our electrical grid is in seriously bad shape. I just watched a show on Discovery that claims that a solar flare could take down the entire grid. It would take years to rebuild and during that time, society could well colapse as the majority of the country would be starving without electricity.

So if we rebuild, and we really really need to, we should do so using wind and solar. The thing about wind and solar is, the grid becomes like the Internet. A bunch of mini-power plants (wind and solar) all on a grid that can't be taken out as a whole. This is huge for security.

And none of the above even mentions the possiblity of global warming being caused by burning oil. If we imagine that this is correct for a second, the cost of oil just "sky rocketed" to the point of being unaffordable.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040993].message }}

bardman

14 years ago

These things will continue to happen until the powers-that-be finally understand that things have gotten out of hand - the extremity of greed and selfishness means that there is blowback - and it will keep coming - until some significant changes are made.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2055189].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by bardman

These things will continue to happen until the powers-that-be finally understand that things have gotten out of hand - the extremity of greed and selfishness means that there is blowback - and it will keep coming - until some significant changes are made.

They KNOW it is obvious it has gotten out of hand. This stuff USED to be relatively secret. NOW, it is BLATENT! When I was in school, we thought RUSSIA was the only superpower to have domestic propaganda. NOW, we find they AREN'T!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2055260].message }}

Jamesyfws

14 years ago

You can't trust Wikipedia. Do some real research on the USGS sites.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2038974].message }}

TimPhelan 14 years ago

How about you providing a link that shows otherwise? Wikipedia uses gov sources including the CIA World Factbook:

File:Oil Reserves.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Jamesyfws

You can't trust Wikipedia. Do some real research on the USGS sites.
- Thanks
Signature
Over 50 Dating
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2039018].message }}

HeySal

14 years ago

There are a LOT of new oil locations being found in the US and we do have MAJOR amounts of it.....but we don't have a lot of refineries. If you ever smelled one of those things there's no wonder why nobody wants one near them. I couldn't even drive past the area without getting a raging headache.

I wasn't kidding though - offshore drilling was discussed a few years back and there was quite a bit of political fuss about it because they would be tapping into Mexico's oil so there is something very political going on behind this one. I'm thinking the "fail" is not an accident either. Mexico has large amounts of oil that we might just "accidentally" tap into from that area.

Thanks

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2039045].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

One president tried to move us in the direction of a new energy policy - Jimmy Carter and even had solar panels installed on the White House itself.

But when the next president moved in, he promptly removed the solar panels sending a powerful signal.

TL

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040116].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

One president tried to move us in the direction of a new energy policy - Jimmy Carter and even had solar panels installed on the White House itself.

But when the next president moved in, he promptly removed the solar panels sending a powerful signal.

TL

Funny, I NEVER heard of that! In fact, when I told people about ****REAL**** solar panels, aka photovoltaic, created in perhaps the 60s, they kept saying it wasn't practical, and I found they were referring to the OLD ones that heated water, that use technology thousands of years old. GIVE ME A BREAK!

AND, did you know that the PENTAGON, of all places, has a solar powered, photovoltaic cell project, TO THIS DAY!?!?!? Pentagon?s Solar Energy Farm

BTW I JUST checked out your claim!

Jimmy Carter's solar panels help power a Maine college, then star in film - The Green Blog - A Boston Globe blog on living Green in Boston

BULL, ALL HYPE!!!!!!!! It is PROVEN inefficient, and was OLD technology. GREAT for heating water, but HOW does that create electricity efficiently? ALSO, it was OLD technology, EVEN FOR ITS DAY! And he did it in 1979, just before he left office. And why didn't HE fix the roof? THEN, reagan wouldn't have had an excuse!

It was SUCH a joke that EVEN saturday night live made stupid skits about it! They are LIBERAL, and usually take it easy on democrat presidents.

BTW the system carter installed would require MORE than mere panels on the roof. Ideally there should be a heat exchanger AND a storage bed like under the ground, to store the heat. Water will hold heat ONLY so long, ESPECIALLY when exposed to the elements, like via those roof panels. A photovoltaic system, by contrast, only needs an inverter and batteries!

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040169].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Funny, I NEVER heard of that! In fact, when I told people about ****REAL**** solar panels, aka photovoltaic, created in perhaps the 60s, they kept saying it wasn't practical, and I found they were referring to the OLD ones that heated water, that use technology thousands of years old. GIVE ME A BREAK!

AND, did you know that the PENTAGON, of all places, has a solar powered, photovoltaic cell project, TO THIS DAY!?!?!? Pentagon?s Solar Energy Farm

BTW I JUST checked out your claim!

Jimmy Carter's solar panels help power a Maine college, then star in film - The Green Blog - A Boston Globe blog on living Green in Boston

BULL, ALL HYPE!!!!!!!! It is PROVEN inefficient, and was OLD technology. GREAT for heating water, but HOW does that create electricity efficiently? ALSO, it was OLD technology, EVEN FOR ITS DAY! And he did it in 1979, just before he left office. And why didn't HE fix the roof? THEN, reagan wouldn't have had an excuse!

It was SUCH a joke that EVEN saturday night live made stupid skits about it! They are LIBERAL, and usually take it easy on democrat presidents.

BTW the system carter installed would require MORE than mere panels on the roof. Ideally there should be a heat exchanger AND a storage bed like under the ground, to store the heat. Water will hold heat ONLY so long, ESPECIALLY when exposed to the elements, like via those roof panels. A photovoltaic system, by contrast, only needs an inverter and batteries!

Steve

You're a scientific whiz.

I wonder why #40 didn't say, that's a good idea, but the panels are outdated etc. ,

...let's get the best technology up there etc. and at least begin to set a new tone for the nation?

Perhaps you can expound?

Since 1980, when did a president sit the nation down and have a serious talk about our energy policy and the need for a new direction?

Ford did, Carter did. ( Pre 1980 )

If you can find one after 1980 that actually proposed sweeping legislation ( or principles for the legislation )...

.. to "push" this nation towards a new energy policy please let me know.

Over the last 30 years we could have been a long way towards and even had a serious new energy policy by now.

What we've had in the past was only a few lines here and there in state of the union speeches about the need to move forward.

The President sets the tone for the nation.

That is my point if that's OK with you.

TL

Ps. In the last 30 years, SNL has had only 1, that's uno, dem president to make fun of until the one we have now.

Since 1968 SNL has had only 2 dem presidents to make fun of until this one.

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040251].message }}

ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

One president tried to move us in the direction of a new energy policy - Jimmy Carter and even had solar panels installed on the White House itself.

But when the next president moved in, he promptly removed the solar panels sending a powerful signal.

TL

Not bad, it only took you till the 28th. post to turn this into a talk about politics and one post after that to talk about your president.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040384].message }}

Kurt 14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Not bad, it only took you till the 28th. post to turn this into a talk about politics and one post after that to talk about your president.

Yes, but the award for being first should go to that James guy, using insulting language and name calling "environuts" for those that disagree, and then posting pure BS as "facts" and challenging anyone to research the truth.

As requested, data from a US .gov site shows that James' "facts" aren't even close:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/reserves.html

Geez, the entire continent of N. America only has 1/10th the oil of the Middle East, which includes Mexico and Canada. (according to the survey in the first/left column)

James, you're not even close.
- Thanks
Signature

Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040750].message }}
TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Not bad, it only took you till the 28th. post to turn this into a talk about politics and one post after that to talk about your president.

Sorry, but I thought I saw something in this thread about energy policy and nation direction etc.

TL
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040756].message }}
- seasoned 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator
  
  Sorry, but I thought I saw something in this thread about energy policy and nation direction etc.
  
  TL
  
  Those may be hot buttons(energy/environment) for political zealots, but the fact is that they AREN'T political! Political types just want to coopt it. Like I said, ALL TALK! HECK, I really couldn't care less if building/energy companies make a DIME! MY position IS, and ALWAYS HAS BEEN:
  
  1. Sustainability
  2. Comfort
  3. Security
  4. I just LIKE wildlife, etc... I LIKE the idea I have rabbits under my deck, squirrels/geese/ducks/deer wandering around, etc... I EVEN like the chipmunks, even though they kick up my mulch so they can rest there, almost like a hamster would.(The mulch they kick up often ends up on my walkway) Heck, there was once even a frog croaking in a flowerbed!
  
  Why CHEAPEN it all by calling it POLITICAL! As if we should be banned from talking about ANYTHING here simply because a politician mentioned it.
  
  Steve
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040849].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

TL,

They make fun of POTENTIAL presidents ALSO! And don't forget OTHERS, like sara palin!

Actually, CONGRESS creates the laws. You DO know that, right? Apparently, BOTH parties tried to nudge us to a better direction there. WHO CARES about talk? If talk were REALLY as good as you claim, this place would be a utopia, we would pay less than 5% tax(TOTAL), ALL would have healthcare, aids would be history, israel and the palestinians would be at peace(No fewer than THREE presidents(ALL DEMOCRAT) claimed to have created peace, or fought for it, there)! Interestingly, NIXON(so hated) was probably one of the biggest allies israel ever had! Without him, israel probably wouldn't even exist today!

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040390].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

TL,

They make fun of POTENTIAL presidents ALSO! And don't forget OTHERS, like sara palin!

Actually, CONGRESS creates the laws. You DO know that, right? Apparently, BOTH parties tried to nudge us to a better direction there. WHO CARES about talk? If talk were REALLY as good as you claim, this place would be a utopia, we would pay less than 5% tax(TOTAL), ALL would have healthcare, aids would be history, israel and the palestinians would be at peace(No fewer than THREE presidents(ALL DEMOCRAT) claimed to have created peace, or fought for it, there)! Interestingly, NIXON(so hated) was probably one of the biggest allies israel ever had! Without him, israel probably wouldn't even exist today!

Steve

Sure...

And presidents propose laws and set the tone for the nation.

You DO know that, right?

I can't bother to respond to that other stuff you mentioned.

TL

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040778].message }}

sarahberra

14 years ago

Yikes! Another disaster. We are seeing more of this than ever before. The earthquakes and volcanic eruptions are happening more frequently. The earth is upset.

Thanks

Signature

Affordable Health Insurance

Click here for a: Fast Cure for Any Type of Flu Virus!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040911].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Well, volcanos, earthquakes, and waves, are RELATED. So it is understandable that all happens as it has. In the US, many laugh at others for their apparent risks, but all have similar risks. PICK ONE! 8-(

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2040946].message }}

Jo W

14 years ago

Wherever there's a dollar to be made, there's someone willing to throw responsibility out the window. It's scary. On a slightly different note, Australia just had a major scare when a foreign oil carrier tried to "sneak" through The Great Barrier Reef and ran aground, leaking. It is infuriating that this precious natural wonder was put at serious risk because of expediency and the almighty buck!

Thanks

Signature

joy toys

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2042303].message }}

whateverpedia

14 years ago

I'd like someone in the media to ask Sarah P "How's that "Drill Baby, Drill" thingy going for ya now?"

I won't hold my breath.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?

So that blind people can hate them as well.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2042900].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

LOL. Yes, that would be interesting but of course she never gets questions from the media. I still can't imagine her in front of a real news conference.

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

I'd like someone in the media to ask Sarah P "How's that "Drill Baby, Drill" thingy going for ya now?"

I won't hold my breath.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2043171].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

The oil is already reaching land now. Plus, they say in 15 days this will be larger than the Exxon Valdez spill!

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2043257].message }}

Kay King

14 years ago

I took Gracie for a walk on the beach tonight - tomorrow morning may be our last pleasant walk there and the oil is supposed to reach our beaches on Saturday. Watching the large white herons and the seagulls broke my heart as I know many of them will die.

It looks like hurricane season - shrimpers are trying to get their boats as far inland as they can - command centers are set up and people are standing on the beach staring out over the water.

Booms have been put out but high winds and high seas are likely to just wash the oil right over the booms. Burns won't work for the next few days due to the winds and high seas.

Dolphins and sea turtles are already affected. They come up for air and instead are coated with black sludge. This couldn't happen at a worse time of year here - and fisherman are already filing suit as they know their livelihood is gone...not hurt, but gone.

The federal response has been about what it was after katrina - slow, lots of talk, but instead of sending troops to help with immediate cleanup as the oil comes in, D.C. sent three administrators to "oversee the cleanup".

This will affect the coasts of four states - damage tourism - kill the fishing industry - and all because the lobbyists in washington were able to prevent the requirement of an expensive safety switch.

Signup starts tomorrow for rush classes on how to clean wildlife and wildlife rehab people from California are here to help.

The best pictures I've found of this are on

What You Need To Know About The Gulf Oil Spill

I didn't realize before this how deep these rigs were going.

Able to operate in up to 8,000 feet of water, it recently broke a world record in drill depth, punching 32,000 feet into the earth's crust...
We're drilling deeper and deeper in Gulf of Mexico waters, ...

Maybe before we drill deeper - we need to get smarter?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

One secret to happiness is to let every situation be

what it is instead of what you think it should be.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2043668].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I took Gracie for a walk on the beach tonight - tomorrow morning may be our last pleasant walk there and the oil is supposed to reach our beaches on Saturday. Watching the large white herons and the seagulls broke my heart as I know many of them will die.

It looks like hurricane season - shrimpers are trying to get their boats as far inland as they can - command centers are set up and people are standing on the beach staring out over the water.

Booms have been put out but high winds and high seas are likely to just wash the oil right over the booms. Burns won't work for the next few days due to the winds and high seas.

Dolphins and sea turtles are already affected. They come up for air and instead are coated with black sludge. This couldn't happen at a worse time of year here - and fisherman are already filing suit as they know their livelihood is gone...not hurt, but gone.

The federal response has been about what it was after katrina - slow, lots of talk, but instead of sending troops to help with immediate cleanup as the oil comes in, D.C. sent three administrators to "oversee the cleanup".

This will affect the coasts of four states - damage tourism - kill the fishing industry - and all because the lobbyists in washington were able to prevent the requirement of an expensive safety switch.

Signup starts tomorrow for rush classes on how to clean wildlife and wildlife rehab people from California are here to help.

The best pictures I've found of this are on

What You Need To Know About The Gulf Oil Spill

I didn't realize before this how deep these rigs were going.

Maybe before we drill deeper - we need to get smarter?

OR, it might sound even MORE astounding to mention that is about 7.6MILES(about 12.2KM)!

You know, it is odd. You described it SO well, etc... that if I lost an arm it probably wouldn't make me feel as bad. I WISH every person doing something like this could feel so bad.

And does ANYONE give ANY thought as to HOW deep is TOO deep? Science says it is a MYTH that you can dig a hole straight down to the other side. According to science, WELL before about 3178.5KM, there will be extreme heat. A bit farther there will be VOLCANIC activity. Somewhere around there, maybe well before the heat, there may be EARTHQUAKES! AND, before the EXTREME heat, there may be enough heat to destroy the local eco system! So how far is TOO far? According to wikipedia, too far could be as little as about 5KM, though it says it could be as much as 200KM! Of course, THAT is the distance to the EXTREME heat. Enough heat to destroy the local ecosystem may be easily HALF that!

GOD I hope they never go deep enough!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2044613].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

I hear that a $500,000 plug/cap device could have possibility been used to stop the bleeding of the oil rig - if it had been in place.

Only $500,000.

I also hear...

Other countries are a lot tougher on their offshore drillers and demand more protections in case something happens but...

..... noooooooooooooo, we in the USA allow the driller to decide how safe they're going to be.

Deregulation bites us in the butt again.

What a shame.

At least BP is supposed to be paying everything for the cleanup.

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2043859].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I hear that a $500,000 plug/cap device could have possibility been used to stop the bleeding of the oil rig - if it had been in place.

Only $500,000.

I also hear...

Other countries are a lot tougher on their offshore drillers and demand more protections in case something happens but...

..... noooooooooooooo, we in the USA allow the driller to decide how safe they're going to be.

Deregulation bites us in the butt again.

What a shame.

At least BP is supposed to be paying everything for the cleanup.

TL

I DOUBT it cost $500,000!!!!!!! Most of that is probably the cost of installation, and THAT would have been NILL if they did it when they installed everything else!!!!! I bet the $500,000 cost is like my heart valve costing over $200,000. Only about 10% of that was the real COST, the rest was installation. If I had a bypass as well, it would have cost little more.

AND, ironically, most of the $20,000 on my valve is probably testing, certification, and advertising. ALL of that would probably be LOWER with the cap for an oil rig.

BUT, you're right, even $500,000 is CHEAP considering that a few such problems that are uncontrolled could all but destroy the PLANET!!!!!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2044561].message }}

HeySal

14 years ago

My only question is how long will it be before we can send members of our US Royalty to jail for this kind of negligence?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2044942].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

My only question is how long will it be before we can send members of our US Royalty to jail for this kind of negligence?

They ACTUALLY made laws that make it ILLEGAL to hold them to the same standard! That's what you get when they are allowed such isolation.

Steve

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2044969].message }}

Kay King

14 years ago

Other countries are a lot tougher on their offshore drillers and demand more protections in case something happens but...

..... noooooooooooooo, we in the USA allow the driller to decide how safe they're going to be.

Deregulation bites us in the butt again.

Finally - you posted something I fully agree with

The blame game on this one will be a round robin, BP blames the drilling company they lease the platform from, the drilling company says the are in full compliance and the govt is responsible for inspections - no one mentions whether anyone tested the safety or whether there have been any inspection at the level where the failure occurred.

I'm signed up now as a volunteer so now will just wait for the call. One thing I'll say about this area is that the people here will pitch in and get dirty to help out - they don't sit around and wait for someone else to do it for them.

Time to get to work today and catch up from time off yesterday - but first Gracie and I are going to take our delayed walk on the beach.

kay

Thanks

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

One secret to happiness is to let every situation be

what it is instead of what you think it should be.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2045062].message }}

HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

They ACTUALLY made laws that make it ILLEGAL to hold them to the same standard! That's what you get when they are allowed such isolation.

Steve

Yep, they do that. That's why I am in the rage against Americans the way I am - we allowed them to do this and I don't see anyone rallying to kick the people out of office who allowed such idiocy to go unpunished. Oh yeah - I know.....next election. My sweet *ss.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2045171].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

Gee, so you are asking for more government control of private businesses? Isn't that fascism, socialism, communism etc...?

Originally Posted by HeySal

Yep, they do that. That's why I am in the rage against Americans the way I am - we allowed them to do this and I don't see anyone rallying to kick the people out of office who allowed such idiocy to go unpunished. Oh yeah - I know.....next election. My sweet *ss.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2045210].message }}

seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Gee, so you are asking for more government control of private businesses? Isn't that fascism, socialism, communism etc...?

fascism is what we basically have, as far as the politicians go. HECK, they write their OWN paycheck, LITERALLY, with OUR money which they DEVALUE on a whim. THEY don't worry about the devaluation because they get a STARTING salary of at least 3 times the national average, and that is only for their home and some luxuries. OTHER stuff is EXPENSED! AND they get "cost of living", bonuses, pensions, etc... In some cases, they can NOT be arrested, though others WOULD be! SAL is talking about a more democratic, capitalistic society.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2045238].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Yep, they do that. That's why I am in the rage against Americans the way I am - we allowed them to do this and I don't see anyone rallying to kick the people out of office who allowed such idiocy to go unpunished. Oh yeah - I know.....next election. My sweet *ss.

This may sound unreal, but one time, when I was perhaps 10, I was in a hospital and had some time on my hands. I TRIED to think of a better way to handle the economy, etc... Some way to avoid MONEY, theft, etc.... I really COULDN'T!

I recently, a few weeks ago, tried to decide what I would do to improve the constitution, through amendments. I came up with about a dozen. about 5 of them are overturning previous amendments. OTHERS are clarifying things, etc... But I can GUARANTEE that there are about 5 that would NEVER pass because they hit special interest groups, and another 5 or so won't pass because they would hurt politicians. ONE, for example, gets rid of ALL special pensions, benefits, and offices. But that ONE amendment could probably save BILLIONS of dollars EVERY year! They would get rid of nearly every government, economic, social problem that happened in the last 50+ years though!

I won't even discuss them here, because TIM and LB would go LIVID!

Steve

Thanks
3 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2045219].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

Wow, you are a genius. Are they going to save your brain and study it after you die like Einsteins?

Originally Posted by seasoned

This may sound unreal, but one time, when I was perhaps 10, I was in a hospital and had some time on my hands. I TRIED to think of a better way to handle the economy, etc... Some way to avoid MONEY, theft, etc.... I really COULDN'T!

I recently, a few weeks ago, tried to decide what I would do to improve the constitution, through amendments. I came up with about a dozen. about 5 of them are overturning previous amendments. OTHERS are clarifying things, etc... But I can GUARANTEE that there are about 5 that would NEVER pass because they hit special interest groups, and another 5 or so won't pass because they would hurt politicians. ONE, for example, gets rid of ALL special pensions, benefits, and offices. But that ONE amendment could probably save BILLIONS of dollars EVERY year! They would get rid of nearly every government, economic, social problem that happened in the last 50+ years though!

I won't even discuss them here, because TIM and LB would go LIVID!

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2045251].message }}

seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Wow, you are a genius. Are they going to save your brain and study it after you die like Einsteins?

AW, I didn't know you cared! 8-)

There is SO much I could say here but, as I said...

Steve
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2045397].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

This may sound unreal, but one time, when I was perhaps 10, I was in a hospital and had some time on my hands. I TRIED to think of a better way to handle the economy, etc... Some way to avoid MONEY, theft, etc.... I really COULDN'T!

I recently, a few weeks ago, tried to decide what I would do to improve the constitution, through amendments. I came up with about a dozen. about 5 of them are overturning previous amendments. OTHERS are clarifying things, etc... But I can GUARANTEE that there are about 5 that would NEVER pass because they hit special interest groups, and another 5 or so won't pass because they would hurt politicians. ONE, for example, gets rid of ALL special pensions, benefits, and offices. But that ONE amendment could probably save BILLIONS of dollars EVERY year! They would get rid of nearly every government, economic, social problem that happened in the last 50+ years though!

I won't even discuss them here, because TIM and LB would go LIVID!

Steve

And your little personal constitution convention would make as much sense as your support of the birther movement.

TL

Ps. I'll look for you on TV when the birthers march on D.C.- I think it's the 29th of May.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2045811].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

And your little personal constitution convention would make as much sense as your support of the birther movement.

TL

Ps. I'll look for you on TV when the birthers march on D.C.- I think it's the 29th of May.

Actually, I work for a living, dislike DC, and wouldn't march with them anyway.

And I wouldn't have a convention, though some of the ideas MIGHT make it out there. 8-) Hey, I SAID you probably wouldn't like them. Yeah, I know......DUH!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2046012].message }}

TimPhelan

14 years ago

That's strange because recently while I had an extra few minutes I decided to rewrite the The Ten Commandments, The Bible and The Koran. I made the 10 Commandments more up to date and user friendly. In fact I changed the name to The 25 Commandments. Afterall, there's a lot more stuff going on now days. I don't think God foresaw the internet for example.

Originally Posted by seasoned

I recently, a few weeks ago, tried to decide what I would do to improve the constitution, through amendments. I came up with about a dozen. about 5 of them are overturning previous amendments. OTHERS are clarifying things, etc... But I can GUARANTEE that there are about 5 that would NEVER pass because they hit special interest groups, and another 5 or so won't pass because they would hurt politicians. ONE, for example, gets rid of ALL special pensions, benefits, and offices. But that ONE amendment could probably save BILLIONS of dollars EVERY year! They would get rid of nearly every government, economic, social problem that happened in the last 50+ years though!

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Over 50 Dating

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2048155].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

That's strange because recently while I had an extra few minutes I decided to rewrite the The Ten Commandments, The Bible and The Koran. I made the 10 Commandments more up to date and user friendly. In fact I changed the name to The 25 Commandments. Afterall, there's a lot more stuff going on now days. I don't think God foresaw the internet for example.

Actually, they DID foresee the internet, regarding laws, THOUSANDS of years ago! The internet isn't new! It is STILL commerce, reading, writing, It is merely a new MEDIA! Electronic? YES International? YES FAST? YES Interactive? YES Meaningfully different in any way that should affect laws? NOPE!

Do you think copyright laws had to be rewritten or were somehow voided by CDs? NOPE! Should miranda even have had to be done? NOPE! HECK, Gideon vs. Wainright was done merely because the cops weren't forthcoming, and wanted to get ANYONE on a charge sometimes. THEY really broke the EARLIER laws! And it is interesting to note that BOTH miranda and gideon were later found GUILTY!

Still, it is INTERESTING that you mention 10 COMMANDMENTS! The constitution had ten AMENDMENTS! I didn't TOUCH those, or even the basic constitution.

Some, like the one against the politicians, were NOT really mentioned anywhere else. One was something that was CLEARLY in the constitution in SEVERAL places prior to the 16th amendment. One is one telling how another amendment applies to the 2nd as well, because people like YOU argue illogical semantics.

And "christians" ARE changing the Bible ALL THE TIME, with "translations" that are REALLY interpretations, and they throw out entire books, like timothy, and stretch exodus! I'm not even religious, and I am appalled! And AGAIN, some of that is PC garbage! Look at timothy, or exodus sometime. HECK, timothy is VERY specific. And I won't even tell you which MAJOR religion
doesn't even have it in THEIR "bible", because it invalidates so many of their precepts.

FRANKLY, I DON'T GET IT! If you believe in the God of the Bible, you should follow his word. If you INTENTIONALLY refuse to follow, you OBVIOUSLY don't believe and/or don't care, so WHY do ANYTHING with the church, or claim to be whatever? Can YOU explain that!?!?!? And changing the words in one book don't change the words that were handed down so long ago. People STILL argue on what "echad" TRULY means, and act as if they care, and that is only ONE word!

For those that don't know, there is a part of the old testament that transliterated is "Shema Israel. Adonai Elohenu. Adonai Echad.". Roughly translated, that means "Hear Israel. The Lord is God. The Lord is One.". Some say echad means one as in one being, form, etc... Some say Echad means almost like a union. Here is one valid reference:

Echad article

BTW For the record, my upbringing/heritage is christian/catholic, and I just ended up getting some jewish friends and christianity STILL looks at the greek and hebrew. This isn't meant to start a religious discussion, and I am on neither side of this issue. It is merely a tangent of the post so sarcastically directed to me.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2048390].message }}

Kay King

14 years ago

Investigators delving into the possible cause of the massive gulf oil spill are focusing on the role of Houston-based Halliburton Co., the giant energy services company, which was responsible for cementing the drill into place below the water. The company acknowledged Friday that it had completed the final cementing of the oil well and pipe just 20 hours before the blowout last week.

Almost two weeks since the platform exploded - and this is only now becoming known?

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

One secret to happiness is to let every situation be

what it is instead of what you think it should be.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2048437].message }}

ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Almost two weeks since the platform exploded - and this is only now becoming known?

Gee Kay if you did something that idiotic would you tell the world about it?
Concrete takes time to cure.

The slower concrete dries, the stronger it gets. The perfect "cure" is a 28 day water bath for concrete. It will gain 99% of its strength in those 28 days and it takes another 100 years to get the last 1%.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2048592].message }}

seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Gee Kay if you did something that idiotic would you tell the world about it?
Concrete takes time to cure.

Rumor has it that perhaps every concrete dam ever built is STILL curing!

But YEAH, 20 hours isn't very long. OH, and slow drying cement tends to be STRONGER!

Steve
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2048662].message }}

TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Almost two weeks since the platform exploded - and this is only now becoming known?

I believe Haliburton was also involved with that recent spill off the coast of Australia.

Nuff said.

TL
- Thanks
Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2067665].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

That's strange because recently while I had an extra few minutes I decided to rewrite the The Ten Commandments, The Bible and The Koran. I made the 10 Commandments more up to date and user friendly. In fact I changed the name to The 25 Commandments. After all, there's a lot more stuff going on now days. I don't think God foresaw the internet for example.

I'm waiting with baited breath for Steve's Personal Updated US Constitution to be revealed.

Please let the world know!

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2048516].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm waiting with baited breath for Steve's Personal Updated US Constitution to be revealed.

Please let the world know!

TL

I bet you would. You and tim aren't livid yet, and I said it would make you so. One HINT ONE amendment would be overturning one that was sponsored by non other than Ted Kennedy! His reason for passage of his was all SCHMALTZ, and really had no logic to it! MINE was just logical based on the fallout of his after all the stuff we have seen since.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2048636].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I bet you would. You and tim aren't livid yet, and I said it would make you so. One HINT ONE amendment would be overturning one that was sponsored by non other than Ted Kennedy! His reason for passage of his was all SCHMALTZ, and really had no logic to it! MINE was just logical based on the fallout of his after all the stuff we have seen since.

Steve

OK, I dare you to reveal your new constitution.

You can do it article by article.

I'd love to see your bill of rights - if any.

Or, just talk about the parts you would delete or change etc.

That would do.

Don't worry, I'm sure I won't have a heart attack or even get real angry, but I might die from laughing.

TL

Ps. We can start with the 14th amendment.

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2048706].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Speaking of Arizona...

... I'm glad my family & I already did the grand canyon thing in 2009 cause I'm not going back there as long as they continue their craziness.

- First the anti-MLK stuff.

- Within the last month the Birther stuff.

- Now this illegial alien stuff.

If they're really after illegals why don't they go after the employers who hire them?

TL

[ 1 ] Thanks
3 replies

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2045796].message }}

seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

- Now this illegial alien stuff.

If they're really after illegals why don't they go after the employers who hire them?

TL

They ARE!

Steve
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2046018].message }}

HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Speaking of Arizona...

... I'm glad my family & I already did the grand canyon thing in 2009 cause I'm not going back there as long as they continue their craziness.

- First the anti-MLK stuff.

- Within the last month the Birther stuff.

- Now this illegial alien stuff.

If they're really after illegals why don't they go after the employers who hire them?

TL

In some places they are going after them. What started the whole crap in the first place was farmers who would hire them to do the seasonal work, then report them as illegals at the end of the season so they would be deported and the farmer wouldn't have to pay them. So what started the whole kit and kabootle was greedy, lowlife scum who cared only if they were putting bucks in their own pockets instead of laws, right, and wrong.

But I believe you are headed in the right direction on that statement. IF we made it impossible for a company to break our laws and violate our constitutional rights and still do business in our country, MOST problems would be wiped out. It's the allowing of fascist activity that is crashing everything.

We must be humane people - but there is nothing inhumane about immigration laws. Illegals are law-breakers. They used to come over in a crunch to make some money to feed their families, but that's a thing of the past. Now illegals come over to rob, plunder, pilliage. They are undermining the attempts of those of their culture legally here to integrate, they are hurting our economy, and they are committing violent crimes. Anyone who aids this situation should go to jail just as they would in any other country on this planet. NO WHERE else in the world can you find people being brainwashed to accept a condition that will contribute to the collapse of their own societies as those who feel we are wrong to enforce our US immigration laws.
Brainwashing? Sure it is - why are they screaming about US being vile for having those laws when they don't seem to care or even notice that the countries that are screaming about the US not letting their citizens in here on a free ticket aren't letting us, or willing to let us, into theirs on any free ticket either.

Clean up corporations and jail law and rights violators and you will clean up most of this country - including problems like the BS and destruction we are now facing because of a drilling corporation trying to cop out on intelligent, responsible activity to save a few bucks. Where wealth becomes a god, societies collapse. It has always been so and it will always be so.

Thanks

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2046210].message }}

Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If they're really after illegals why don't they go after the employers who hire them?

TL

Because they can claim "innocence".....

I've been saying this for years because of what I...personally, have observed in my small corner of the country.

Most of the big companies ARE using illegals but they don't hire them theirselves.

They are being placed by TEMP SERVICES.

These illegals are coming here and already know EXACTLY where to go for employment.

As far as I'm concerned, EVERY major temp service in this country should be investigated and held accountable.
- Thanks
Signature

Professional Googler
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2049011].message }}

KimW

14 years ago

"OMG - another disaster? Enough already! "

Don't tell me the search function and they Thank You Button has been disabled??

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Read A Post.
Subscribe to a Newsletter
KimWinfrey.Com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2046452].message }}

Kay King 14 years ago

That's funny - when you noticed, they were fixed! Wished you had noticed sooner - the buttons have been gone for a couple days....:p

Just read a disturbing memo mentioned on the local news tonight - suppose it was leaked on purpose?

Leaked Memo Sees Bigger Oil Risk - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

Considering there was one leak - then two and now three - that's a frightening scenario. Or was it leaked so people would start saying "it could be worse"?
- Thanks
Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
what it is instead of what you think it should be.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2047522].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Rumors are the Haliburton was somehow involved.

Enough said.

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2047963].message }}

seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Rumors are the Haliburton was somehow involved.

Enough said.

TL

Well, if it is big enough..... Standard oil was probably involved(meaning the original orgaization).
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2048009].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

TL I said AMENDMENTS! AND, frankly, you and tim would go livid and I would get blamed. Maybe LATER, ELSEWHERE! There are only 17 amendments! The ONLY one applying to the 14th is the 35th. It isn't a repeal, but a refinment. I bet half the people here would think it was a nice idea.

OK YOU WIN, how about a TEASER? Some of those that hopefully almost all here would appreciate?

Amendment 29 No pension, Insurance, expense account, or other benefit, outside of those that are available to all other US citizens shall be given to or retained by any person in the US government.

Amendment 31 Any fraud, misrepresentation, or felony shall require impeachment.

Amendment 34 Amendment #2 shall be deemed to be a restriction on the powers of the united states and any state so incorporated as to ensure the rights of any citizen thereof. This is as specified in amendments 9 and 10.

Amendment 40 Colleges shall cover only specific classes needed for the discipline, and not overlap with earlier grades.
all curiculums shall be coordinated, and accepted, among all districts and states so that moving will not compromise outcomes

Amendment 41 No union affiliation or group shall demand any wage over that available to non union members, and shall not endanger the viability of any company or industry.

Amendment 42 NO lobbyist, or person with any government agency, shall in any way bribe or otherwise unjustly encourage any person in or with any government in the united states to do anything, or vote in any way.

Amendment 43 NO government official or worker shall on any domestic issue, or in time of peace, provide, or expose anyone to, any propaaganda or misrepresentation. The total years in office of same shall be no more than 10 years, or the term otherwise specified, whichever is less.

Amendment 44 NO deficiency of ability or language, or percieved class or prejudice, shall give any person, entity, or group, preference over any other.

REMEMBER, I am NOT trying to start a political discussion, and this is all I will release here.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2048961].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

TL I said AMENDMENTS! AND, frankly, you and tim would go livid and I would get blamed. Maybe LATER, ELSEWHERE! There are only 17 amendments! The ONLY one applying to the 14th is the 35th. It isn't a repeal, but a refinment. I bet half the people here would think it was a nice idea.

OK YOU WIN, how about a TEASER? Some of those that hopefully almost all here would appreciate?

Amendment 29 No pension, Insurance, expense account, or other benefit, outside of those that are available to all other US citizens shall be given to or retained by any person in the US government.

Amendment 31 Any fraud, misrepresentation, or felony shall require impeachment.

Amendment 34 Amendment #2 shall be deemed to be a restriction on the powers of the united states and any state so incorporated as to ensure the rights of any citizen thereof. This is as specified in amendments 9 and 10.

Amendment 40 Colleges shall cover only specific classes needed for the discipline, and not overlap with earlier grades.
all curiculums shall be coordinated, and accepted, among all districts and states so that moving will not compromise outcomes

Amendment 41 No union affiliation or group shall demand any wage over that available to non union members, and shall not endanger the viability of any company or industry.

Amendment 42 NO lobbyist, or person with any government agency, shall in any way bribe or otherwise unjustly encourage any person in or with any government in the united states to do anything, or vote in any way.

Amendment 43 NO government official or worker shall on any domestic issue, or in time of peace, provide, or expose anyone to, any propaaganda or misrepresentation. The total years in office of same shall be no more than 10 years, or the term otherwise specified, whichever is less.

Amendment 44 NO deficiency of ability or language, or percieved class or prejudice, shall give any person, entity, or group, preference over any other.

REMEMBER, I am NOT trying to start a political discussion, and this is all I will release here.

Steve

Would you mind explaining in English for us who are not constitutional scholars?

Ok, I think I get the first 2 on your list...

Amendment 29 No pension, Insurance, expense account, or other benefit, outside of those that are available to all other US citizens shall be given to or retained by any person in the US government.

I think you're talking about the so-called extra special pension plans of the national legislators and perhaps all federal workers.

Amendment 31 Any fraud, misrepresentation, or felony shall require impeachment.

Impeachment of who??

Any national politician?

A president?

Well we've had only 2 in our history.

- Andrew Johnson - ( as Maxwell Smart used to say, missed it by that much )

Missed it by 1 vote.

- Nixon was threatened with it if he didn't resign.

Bill Clinton - Failed to get 2/3 votes in the Senate.

You've got to do some really foul stuff and be caught publicly for there to be talk of a presidential impeachment.

Can you point out some of the more egregious violations of the constitution??

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2049030].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Would you mind explaining in English for us who are not constitutional scholars?

Ok, I think I get the first 2 on your list...

Amendment 29 No pension, Insurance, expense account, or other benefit, outside of those that are available to all other US citizens shall be given to or retained by any person in the US government.

I think you're talking about the so-called extra special pension plans of the national legislators and perhaps all federal workers.

Amendment 31 Any fraud, misrepresentation, or felony shall require impeachment.

Impeachment of who??

Any national politician?

A president?

Well we've had only 2 in our history.

- Andrew Johnson - ( as Maxwell Smart used to say, missed it by that much )

Missed it by 1 vote.

- Nixon was threatened with it if he didn't resign.

Bill Clinton - Failed to get 2/3 votes in the Senate.

You've got to do some really foul stuff and be caught publicly for there to be talk of a presidential impeachment.

Can you point out some of the more egregious violations of the constitution??

TL

Actually, I could probably list THOUSANDS of people that 31 would affect. I didn't say ANYTHING about the constitution! I mean if you say your opponent did/said ANYTHING they obviously didn't, if you said you would do something you knew you couldn't, or you never planned to do etc.... If you stole a car, or broke into a home, robbed, etc.... Whether running for city council or president, you would be IMPEACHED! SIMPLE!

I leave it up to the reader to determine what THAT means, since I know how YOU will act.

steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2049497].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Actually, I could probably list THOUSANDS of people that 31 would affect. I didn't say ANYTHING about the constitution! I mean if you say your opponent did/said ANYTHING they obviously didn't, if you said you would do something you knew you couldn't, or you never planned to do etc.... If you stole a car, or broke into a home, robbed, etc.... Whether running for city council or president, you would be IMPEACHED! SIMPLE!

I leave it up to the reader to determine what THAT means, since I know how YOU will act.

steve

I am mystified???????????

TL

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2049526].message }}

Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Latest on the spill...

Experts fear the spill could spread to East Coast | TimesDaily.com | The Times Daily | Florence, AL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Professional Googler

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2049064].message }}

ThomM 14 years ago

You've got to do some really foul stuff and be caught publicly for there to be talk of a presidential impeachment.

Or as in Clinton's case pissing off the other party so much that they spend 8 years trying to find something to impeach him on, yet all they could get was him lying to congress about a blow job.
- Thanks
Signature

Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2049095].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

OK, TL, you want a CURRENT example! I heard this JUST this morning!

Democrats organize to keep Kelly Timilty from running for re-election as a governor's councilor | Universal Hub

A group of Democrats say long-time Governor's Councilor Kelly Timilty forfeited the right to represent her district when she circulated a bogus, forged endorsement from Deval Patrick two years ago.

Mary-Ann Greanier said she decided to organize a letter and e-mail campaign to urge Timility to step aside after fellow Democrats expressed concern and outrage that Timilty might run again this fall. Greanier is chairwoman of the Democratic Town Committee, although she says her campaign to get Timilty to step down is not a town-committee effort.

Timility has yet to say whether she will be going for a rematch against Milton's Robert Jubinville, who is running again this year for a two-year seat on the council, which signs off on state funding and considers judicial nominations and parole recommendations.

Timilty paid an $8,000 fine for the forged endorsement - after first hiring a Boston political fixer to deal with the bad press she was getting.

SO, that amendment I spoke of, would say timilty shall(MUST BE and WILL) impeached. Since that would be silly here, she just wouldn't be allowed to run. Maybe I should add that. 8-)

Press release urging Kelly Timilty to retire | Universal Hub
Gov. Deval Patrick Accuses Governor's Council Candidate Kelly Timilty Of Forging His Signature - wbztv.com

BTW wouldn't this get MOST citizens THROWN IN JAIL!?!?!?

BTW since BOTH people are in the same party, etc... I am hoping this isn't considered political. Just showing ONE instance. As far as I am concerned, this WAS a fraud, misrepresentation AND a felony!

BTW this kind of thing happens EVERYWHERE! HECK, the head of the RNC, of all things, is misrepresenting, if nothing else. I would say the SAME if he were white. In fact, several months ago, I LIKED him! Of course, HE isn't really in the government either.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2055122].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

What do you want me to say?

I'd be an idiot to suggest that there is no underhandedness, corruption or public officials talking out the side of their mouths, etc., etc., etc.

What do you propose???

What's next??

A call for some actual French Revolution type of response from the public.

There are local and nation mechanisms to take care of this type of stuff.

I'm not sure what you want from me on this situation.

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2055180].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

What do you want me to say?

I'd be an idiot to suggest that there is no underhandedness, corruption or public officials talking out the side of their mouths, etc., etc., etc.

What do you propose???

What's next??

A call for some actual French Revolution type of response from the public.

There are local and nation mechanisms to take care of this type of stuff.

I'm not sure what you want from me on this situation.

TL

NO, there is LOTS of corruption! THAT is the problem!
I want them to STOP!
I guess there really IS no next. If this person were disqualified, and thrown in jail for voter fraud, forgery, and vote tampering, maybe it would send a message!
YEP, the local mechanism is to just ignore it. Is that what YOU want?
I wasn't asking you for ANYTHING!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2055255].message }}

certifiedacai

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2064857].message }}

seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by certifiedacai

He have to live bout our future not on our past.

A house built on rubble will often fall apart!

Steve
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2064896].message }}

stefffff

14 years ago

"... And none of the above even mentions the possiblity of global warming being caused by burning oil. If we imagine that this is correct for a second, the cost of oil just "sky rocketed" to the point of being unaffordable."

i can't agree with you more on this!

Thanks

Signature

Daily Funny Pictures
Professional Wordpress Themes Store

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2067693].message }}

OMG - another disaster? Enough already!

Trending Topics

How do I effectively build and nurture an email list for affiliate marketing purposes?

Are Solo ADs the Most Cost Effective Way to Promote your Product?

Are billboards still effective in driving customers?

Been a while! Any of you Old Timers here?

How much does the rebranding affect CR ?