An Election Question To Christians?

by saybrah

Posted: 16 years ago 16 replies

OFF TOPIC

This election cycle shows just how little Christians actually practice what they preach. All throughout the history of America you have "Christians" doing ungodly things. For those we have...

Matthew 7:21-29
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?' Then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.'

Before I ask the question do you as Proverb 3:5 says,
"Trust the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding"

Just this verse alone would suppress all the political rhetoric that's been going back and forth between pundits, the electorates and ticket toppers.

do you actually believe what the Bible says through spiritual discernment not what a preacher has interjected with their own interpretation. (The Word of God says, "Study to show thyself approve...")

So... Here's is a question that should be asked of all Americans that "call" themselves Christians. On November 5th, if your candidate of choice doesn't win will you still trust God?

Here are 3 verses that I think are very important at this time...

"Lift not up your horn on high: speak not with a stiff neck.
For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the
west, nor from the south. But God is the judge: he putteth
down one, and setteth up another."
Psalms 75:5-7, KJV

"Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for
ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he changeth
the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up
kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them
that know understanding:"
Daniel 2:20-21, KJV

"This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the
demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the
living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of
men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up
over it the basest of men."
Daniel 4:17, KJV

As you can see it is God that lifts up leaders. So on November 5th will you accept it or harden your heart?

There is a spirit moving across America like never before that has to shift or this country will destroy itself.

So for all you that "call" yourself Christians wake up and become.

Isiah 26:3 says "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee."

There is nothing that man does that should remove a Christian from this position. One thing most forget to do is pray for our country and leader daily. That's our only responsibilty.

The choice is yours.... Send this to Christian you know

saybrah 16 years ago

well that was my point that most people go to church, read the bible but never really trust God. Political issues should not be as hateful and divisive as this year has been.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[188615].message }}
espacecadet Banned 16 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[188618].message }}
- saybrah 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by espacecadet
  
  Political issues are always hateful and divisive. They seem a bit more this year because we have a lot more to lose.
  
  what more do we have to lose than the last or before?
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[188985].message }}
Michael Oksa 16 years ago

I may agree with you, and I may not, but don't tell me what I should and shouldn't believe.
- Thanks
Signature

"Ich bin en fuego!"
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[189085].message }}

saybrah

16 years ago

lol... hey michael don't believe me those are directly from the bible. i'm just spreading a message that should not just make sense but be discern as truth.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[189104].message }}

tommyp

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

But that's what all denominations say, they all claim to quote the Bible, and they all do. But it's also about what you quote and what context you put it into.

Again, you don't know what I believe one way or the other, but I don't need you to quote the Bible at me and tell me how I should interpret it.

Then no one should be allowed to speak. Whenever anyone speaks it's usually what they think. Different historians interpret history in different ways. Maybe you should tell them to not tell you how to interpret history when they give their version of it. You only have a problem because it's "Bible"

Believe what you do. What you believe may stay the same or it may change. But it doesn't make a difference because the Father has given His elect to the Messiah, no man can come to the Father except He draw him and people will only see and hear if God gives the person ears to hear and eyes to see.

I'm not interested in changing your mind and I don't care what you believe. But that's me. I don't know about saybrah but anyone who believes in free will will naturally think they can convince people of things after enough arguing.

Originally Posted by saybrah

As you can see it is God that lifts up leaders. So on November 5th will you accept it or harden your heart?

I'm not voting. I don't care who wins. Everything is preordained and God appointing rulers doesn't necessarily mean they belong to Him. They are just swords in His hand to carry out His will. There is no hope for most and few have been chosen.

Originally Posted by saybrah

There is a spirit moving across America like never before that has to shift or this country will destroy itself.

God will destroy it sooner or later and the rest of the world. The end is near when everyone says "peace peace"

Originally Posted by saybrah

So for all you that "call" yourself Christians wake up and become.

Isiah 26:3 says "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee."

There is nothing that man does that should remove a Christian from this position. One thing most forget to do is pray for our country and leader daily. That's our only responsibilty.

I'm not praying for this country or for the leader. All I pray is that God's will be carried out and that He is glorified no matter what happens.

"Our" responsibility is to bow down to God's will. There are things that prayer won't change and the word "prayer", which was taken from the koine Greek, means to bow to His will. "If it is possible to take this cup from me take it nevertheless THY will be done"

If God wants war no amount of praying will stop it. If God wants a particular person as president so that they can jack things up further no amount of prayer will stop it. If God wants this country to be more depraved, perverted, backwards and Godless than it already is then no amount of praying will change it.

Not many mighty will enter into the kingdom of God. All or most presidents, Bill Gates', kings and queens, rulers, etc., are going to hell.

"Woe unto you when all men speak well of you"

They don't belong to Him and no amount of prayer will change what God has preordained.

It makes no sense as a believer to pray for things to stop that the Bible says is going to happen.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[189223].message }}

Michael Oksa 16 years ago

But that's what all denominations say, they all claim to quote the Bible, and they all do. But it's also about what you quote and what context you put it into.

Again, you don't know what I believe one way or the other, but I don't need you to quote the Bible at me and tell me how I should interpret it.

I really wish the old rule was back sometimes.

~Michael
- Thanks
Signature

"Ich bin en fuego!"
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[189116].message }}

Michael Oksa

16 years ago

Then no one should be allowed to speak. Whenever anyone speaks it's usually what they think.

Agreed, but the OP isn't saying it's even a matter of what anyone believes, but that it is the authoritative truth and therefore impossible to misinterpret. That's the the problem.

Different historians interpret history in different ways. Maybe you should tell them to not tell you how to interpret history when they give their version of it. You only have a problem because it's "Bible"

That's a huge assumption, and about as incorrect as you can be. I don't have a problem that it's the Bible, I have a problem with it because I am being told that this is all the Bible has to say about political situations. The quoted verses are only that, quoted verses. Again, you don't know what I believe.

Believe what you do.

I do.

What you believe may stay the same or it may change.

It has changed over the years. When presented with new information, it only makes sense.

But it doesn't make a difference because the Father has given His elect to the Messiah, no man can come to the Father except He draw him and people will only see and hear if God gives the person ears to hear and eyes to see.

I may be wrong, but I get the impression that you are implying something about me. You are in no position to judge me, or my beliefs - not only because the Bible says "Judge not, lest ye be judged", BUT also because you still have no idea what I believe - so you don't even have that to base a judgment on.

I'm not interested in changing your mind and I don't care what you believe. But that's me.

No problem. I'm just trying to state my opinion on the issue.

I don't know about saybrah but anyone who believes in free will will naturally think they can convince people of things after enough arguing.

That is faulty logic. I could also say that it is no use arguing with someone who believes in free will, because I can't control their will. However, I still get the impression that you are making incorrect assumptions about my beliefs. How do I feel about free will? Tell me, I'd really like to hear what I believe as you seem to know.

~Michael

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"Ich bin en fuego!"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[189273].message }}

tommyp

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Agreed, but the OP isn't saying it's even a matter of what anyone believes, but that it is the authoritative truth and therefore impossible to misinterpret. That's the the problem.

I may be wrong, but I get the impression that you are implying something about me.

Yea, you are wrong.

You are in no position to judge me, or my beliefs - not only because the Bible says "Judge not, lest ye be judged", BUT also because you still have no idea what I believe - so you don't even have that to base a judgment on.

The Bible DOES say to judge and to judge righteously. The don't judge me argument is usually a cop out and really old. It's always judging when someone doesn't like it. Nobody likes it but we do it all the time anyway even those who say to not judge.

But as far as not being in a position to judge, that's true, but then again you think I'm passing judgment so it would make sense that you would think that. And judging is according to God's Word.

And anyway that's moot because, no, while I don't know what you believe and I was not "judging" you whatever that means to you or whatever you thought it was, just by you saying "Don't tell me what I should believe or what I shouldn't" when it didn't make much sense to me and just the nature of where you're coming from with all this, I would say that while I don't know specifically what you believe, I'm pretty sure it isn't what I believe and while I don't know everything and I can definitely be wrong about things, I believe that the crux of what I believe is the Truth and so if it's different then it's wrong because I won't compromise what I'm really convicted about.

That is faulty logic. I could also say that it is no use arguing with someone who believes in free will, because I can't control their will.

You say it's faulty logic because you are going by your understanding.

No, it is not faulty logic, not for a believer. Because the reason for not consistently arguing as if I could change someone's mind is because I believe God has preordained and predestinated His people. In this case those who do not have eyes to see and ears to hear will not see nor hear. Therefore, arguing is totally in vain and so not consistently arguing things is what makes sense.

The Bible also talks about telling a person the truth twice, and after that if they don't want the truth then to discontinue and have nothing to do with them. I don't have the verse memorized, but if it comes back to me I'll post it. But you should be able to find it with a search because it is there.

However, I still get the impression that you are making incorrect assumptions about my beliefs. How do I feel about free will? Tell me, I'd really like to hear what I believe as you seem to know.

How am I supposed to know. That free will comment was actually about the OP.

You seem to be doing some assuming of your own.

Anyway, you can take it or leave it. Like I said if anything strikes a chord then go with it and if it doesn't then it doesn't. God deals with the hearts, or He doesn't.

Take it easy.

PS. This may or may not interest you (including the videos in my sig)

http://www.graceandtruth.net/

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[189353].message }}

Michael Oksa

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tommyp

Hi, Michael

What I'm asking is how else would you expect the OP to speak except by their conviction? Does the OP have to come in here and say "Well, this is just my opinion but..." No they don't as far as I am concerned but it is the religious nature of the post that seems to make you require such a prerequisite. If it were some other topic you most likely would not have said the same thing, at least not on most topics. It is specifically the Biblical nature of the OP that caused you to make such a comment.

It's totally possible that I am wrong, but I would have a hard time believing it, and that's what I've learned from my experience. Playing the odds, I believe I'd be correct.

I disagree with the OP, but I guess that ultimately what I meant was "What do you expect?"

Maybe it's because you believe that specifically on this topic no one should be allowed to speak authoritatively about the Bible because to you the Bible is a book that can have different interpretations? I don't know.

I see no reason why someone should or would compromise and take the tentative route if they have their convictions.

It would have been one thing had you said "I disagree" rather than "Don't tell me what to believe or not"

Besides, it's not like they are right in front of your face invading your space and you can't get away. It's on a message board.

Maybe it's just me but I don't see what the OP did to get your response. Besides, it's really the most unimportant part of my post.

Yea, you are wrong.

The Bible DOES say to judge and to judge righteously. The don't judge me argument is usually a cop out and really old. It's always judging when someone doesn't like it. Nobody likes it but we do it all the time anyway even those who say to not judge.

But as far as not being in a position to judge, that's true, but then again you think I'm passing judgment so it would make sense that you would think that. And judging is according to God's Word.

And anyway that's moot because, no, while I don't know what you believe and I was not "judging" you whatever that means to you or whatever you thought it was, just by you saying "Don't tell me what I should believe or what I shouldn't" when it didn't make much sense to me and just the nature of where you're coming from, I would say that while I don't know specifically what you believe, I'm pretty sure it isn't what I believe.

You say it's faulty logic because you are going by your understanding.

No, it is not faulty logic, not for a believer. Because the reason for not consistently arguing as if I could change someone's mind is because I believe God has preordained and predestinated His people. In this case those who do not have eyes to see and ears to hear will not see nor hear. Therefore, arguing is totally in vain.

The Bible also talks about telling a person the truth twice, and after that if they don't want the truth then to discontinue and have nothing to do with them. I don't have the verse memorized, but if it comes back to me I'll post it. But you should be able to find it with a search because it is there.

How am I supposed to know. That free will comment was actually about the OP.

You seem to be doing some assuming of your own.

Anyway, you can take it or leave it. Like I said if anything strikes a chord then go with it and if it doesn't then it doesn't. God deals with the hearts, or He doesn't.

Take it easy.

Yep, I'm starting to see your point. The first five paragraphs especially.

But, then you start to lose me. No big deal, it's an interesting discussion. I just don't like being told what to believe, or what I believe. And it;s not just religion, I made a similar assertation in a political thread.

And you are right about being on a message board and not in my face. No problem.

You mention your response to my response as being the least important part of your post, and I believe that, too. You spent a lot more time discussing the OP.

The "don't judge me thing" is not a cop out in this case. The Bible does say to judge and to do so righteously, it also says, "by their fruits you should know them", however does that give any less weight to another quoted verse ("judge not, lest ye be judged")? I assume it does not.

BUT, here's the one part that really rubbed me the wrong way. This is how I see it, but I may be off base. Just try to see how I could take the following in this way...

No, it is not faulty logic, not for a believer.

To me that comes across as you saying I am not a believer because I was looking at free will from a different angle. It doesn't mean I don't believe in free will. I was just simply saying that it;s possible to claim free will would work in the way I described.

Let me ask you, do you think I'm a believer, or not?

Now, the best part of your post was close to the end. You said, "You seem to be doing some assuming of your own".

And to that, I can only say you are right. My guess is that we are both "hearing" the other's posts in a voice that differs from how they were intended. That's one of the downsides of forum communication...we can't hear inflection, see gestures, or even pick up on hints that things are being said to make a point.

Anyway, always food for thought and I appreciate your clarifications.

~Michael

Thanks

Signature

"Ich bin en fuego!"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[189377].message }}

gimmick 16 years ago

This question is only valid if you belive that God is running this world. That he is actually concerned who wins and who looses. Every country has prayed to their God before going to war, but does God sustain war in any way? Religion has no deeper meaning these days, pretty much same as politics and then we think that God is resposible...
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[189907].message }}
- espacecadet Banned 16 years ago
  
  [DELETED]
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[190366].message }}
  
  Kay King 16 years ago
  
  I NEVER forward anything that says "send this to all the XXX that you know".
  
  that most people go to church, read the bible but never really trust God
  
  Broad statement. You don't know what others believe unless they make it public - people pray to find love, to win the lottery, to win a football game or win a war - does a higher power really take sides on such requests?
  Some may think so. Others don't. Do such prayers indicate total belief - or lack of belief? Who is qualified to judge?
  
  For every biblical quote that "proves" what you believe, there is likely a similar quote to "disprove" it - so much depends on the interpretation.
  
  This election has been much milder in negativity than quite a few in the past - it's the nature of politics. How many well known religious and political figures have confused "belief" with "power" and brought about their own downfall because they claim to "speak for God".
  
  "What I believe..." is always valid. "What you should believe..." seldom is.
  
  kay
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
  ***
  Live life like someone left the gate open
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[190779].message }}
Michael Oksa 16 years ago

Not everyone thinks God is responsible for the bad things that happen in the world.

~Michael
- Thanks
Signature

"Ich bin en fuego!"
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[190162].message }}
Michael Oksa 16 years ago

Thanks Kay,

I think you just put it more eloquently than I did.

That was my problem from the beginning. There is the idea of being told what I should believe. First of all, that's up to me. And second, it implies that I don't believe it in the first place (which I might).

~Michael

p.s. Where were you when I made the above responses???
- Thanks
Signature

"Ich bin en fuego!"
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[190790].message }}
espacecadet Banned 16 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[190895].message }}
- Michael Oksa 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by espacecadet
  
  Michael, she was busy badmouthing American war veterans in a different topic, that's where she was.
  
  That has nothing to do with me. Why the grudge? Why try to get me in the middle.
  
  Just sayin' is all.
  
  ~Michael
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  "Ich bin en fuego!"
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[190929].message }}
ashenjr 16 years ago

I think the that trust in GOD is never deterred but trust in man is. If the people elect a "bad" president, then it would be like the people selecting a bad king in the bible. Humans have to learn on their own and from their own mistakes.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

SIGNATURE EDITED - please read sig file rules - no affiliate links
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[190959].message }}
- Kay King 16 years ago
  
  Where were you when I made the above responses
  
  My bad - I was actually working! ...or trying to - it's so beautiful outside today that I think I'll give it up till tonight or tomorrow.
  
  No, Allen, I was dissing a veteran appointing himself to speak for Iraq veterans when he refused to go to Iraq himself. As I said there, I have nothing but respect for those who serve.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
  ***
  Live life like someone left the gate open
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[191003].message }}

An Election Question To Christians?

Trending Topics

How did you turn it all around?

A healthy fascination for Hollywood...

Any thoughts on golf's latest phenom...Scottie Scheffler??

What's the Best IM-Related Skill to Learn Today That Can Help in the Future?

best high quality crypto traffic.