Was Einstein for real... ?

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It's all speculation, and I'm sure the truth will never be known. But, I
believe it was the late 80s when the scientific world became much more
aware of Einstein's first wife, Mileva.

There are some interesting items in this whole story. Or rather, what I
just read. It's conjecture, but damn interesting conjecture that's based
on some facts and inferences after reading letters, etc.

1. Mileva was extremely intelligent, brilliant. She helped Einstein in his years
leading to the publication of his scientific papers that led to all the rest you
know about.

2. In the link below, there are some interesting quotes taken from letters, about
400 were found, that could cause one to arrive at certain possible conclusions.

3. Einstein gave his ex-wife, Mileva, all of his Nobel Prize money - I think it
was 300k+ USD at the time. Certainly went farther than it would, today. Seems
an unusual divorce settlement offer for back then. But there's more there...

4. Interesting to note, maybe, that Einstein never shined again after Mileva was
gone from his life. Of course that doesn't prove anything. But taking everything else
into account, I think it's interesting.

This is also a sad story about Mileva because it's just another example of how
women were treated by society back then. Also, Einstein's apparently real tendencies
are revealed, here, and he wasn't such a cool guy, really.

This isn't long to read, but it's fascinating as hell.

Einstein's Wife | PBS

Enjoy...
  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Revealing letters is one reason Thomas Jefferson burned as much of his stuff as possible.


    TL
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The same was speculated about Pasteur. I'm sure women are responsible for a lot of advancements but will never be known because they had to put them out via husbands. Society raged against us if we had the audacity to show any intelligence that might surpass the average male. We used to be livestock, ya know. About 30 years ago a husband could beat a wife senseless and if the cops were called in they would walk the guy around the block to "cool him down". Period. You still hear some guys rage because we "took all the jobs" and "everything was fine until women started working". They completely forget that the gold standard was dropped about that time most of us went to work and don't always notice that THEY couldn't support a wife on what they make. We were supposed to love being servants.

    Women are responsible for the smelting of metal. But nobody seems to realize that we are responsible for changing the whole face of civilization.

    We were worshiped through most of human history. It's only been about 1500 to 2000 years that we have been seen as a sub-species. There are still places in the world today where a woman will be slaughtered just for upsetting a man's ego. But this is also a time that brute force no longer can keep women in homes in most places - black eyes and broken arms are no longer a socially sanctioned method of keeping power in most places any more. And women are educated - and those that are can compete without problems - women are learning to use weapons and defend themselves and a man can no longer feel completely safe when he decides a woman might make a great victim just because she looks a tad frail.

    People worry about racism. LOL - what would the resulting war look like if all the women in the world spoke at once and said - No more sex, no more babies until...... You would see the biggest blood bath this world has known because a world of men wouldn't be willing to relent to having to behave like humans to get what they see as our "purpose" to give.

    And you "ethnic" guys? Never tell a woman she doesn't know what it's like to have people prejudiced against you. Those of us who are a bit older know what it is like to be denied the right by husbands to hold a job, have had jobs where the boss expected us to put out for if he found us attractive, and remember when husbands expected you to get their "permission" to leave the house or spend a dime.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Those of us who are a bit older know what it is like to be denied the right by husbands to hold a job, have had jobs where the boss expected us to put out for if he found us attractive, and remember when husbands expected you to get their "permission" to leave the house or spend a dime.
      From what I hear and read that still happens. And depending on country
      and society, nothing much has changed.
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      • Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

        From what I hear and read that still happens. And depending on country
        and society, nothing much has changed.
        I agree, particularly in most asian countries where men still believe that women should stay at home, bear their children and do the chores. Demand them to open their legs whenever they wanted.

        There is also a large number of male population that do not care if their women will get pregnant during unprotected sex. And if "accidents" happen, they leave them like nothing happened. Who carries the burden? Women. And when these "men" get old and useless, whom do they run to? Their abandoned children and family. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Ken asked me a question privately, and I thought others may be wondering the same thing. So here is the question [redacted] and my response to it. Basically, he just asked why I said what I did in my last post.
    Ken, I appreciate your candor in asking, but am not afraid to discuss this issue publicly, divorced from the politics, of course. And Ken - I am adding a bit more than I responded to you.

    That was a comment directed at no in particular "ethnic" group of men, but addressed to all. I said it because of all the times throughout my life, while in sociological discussions with men of varied ethnicity I have been told "but you don't know what it's like to be on the receiving end of discrimination." I am told that because I was raised in a white dominated society and they just assume that whites don't understand the other end of the power chain.

    I have never heard a related statement from a woman - regardless of her
    ethnicity.

    Your post about Einstein's reputation possibly being attached to the womn in his life, just seemed related enough. I know a lot of achievements women have made that men couldn't.........Nellie got through hundreds of miles of blizzard to save a town in Alaska.......back in the late 1800's. No man was able to get through, but Nellie did. Another woman who packed supplies out to miners in Colorado saved that mine of big strong men during a blizzard. A woman developed the first gold concentrator........... They were resourceful enough to be the people in the gold towns who really made out like bandits - miner's didn't often have wives, and so the women marketed services - laundry, food, and they made a pile. Paul Revere never even finished his ride, he broke his leg and was captured early on.......it was a woman who finished it, but they refused her history coverage because she was out in shocking array at the time - she saved our people in a nightgown for God's sake. And it was women who first smelted metal way back in archaic history.

    Women have proven to be resourceful and behind the scenes leaders throughout history, yet we have been actually told in some places and at some points of history that we needed to not claim our victories publicly. So people read history, and they think of us as subordinate to the great male.

    And that whole crematorium just makes me want to hurl.

    Just sayin...........
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Ken, I appreciate your candor in asking, but am not afraid to discuss this issue publicly,
      Thank you, Sal.

      First, just for the record and to avoid any confusion on anyone's part, there was never
      any suggestion or implication about being afraid to discuss it publicly. Not at all, and
      indeed no one should be afraid to openly discuss these issues in a rational and intelligent
      manner.

      Also, I was curious about Sal's directed comment toward ethnic men. So I asked her
      about it. I understand her point, completely, and I appreciated your reply, Sal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pauline60
    My grandmother saved what little she could over several years with the local co-operative. Although the account was in her name my grandfather went along there and withdrew all of the money to buy a horse. She knew nothing about it until afterwards.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, I guess we can ask TL since he must be hundreds of years old to know such a thing!

    Heysal,

    Pasteur's discoveries have been attributed to an assistant that was careless. THAT was embarassing. Would the fact that a female did that be any more so?

    Are Women REALLY responsible for the smelting of metal?

    And women, in a way, are worshiped even TODAY. That is not to say they are REALLY goddesses, have special intelligence, etc....

    Frankly, European cultures ALWAYS frowned on men berating or hitting women. Unfortunately, it was a GIVEN that someone would place the burden of chastity on women. Granted, some europeans had chastity belts, and the bible asked women to honor it and the old testament implied a harsh punishment was OK. It took the koran and shria law to take it past that.

    Could men EVER feel REAL safe? Heck, just yesterday I watched a comic complaining about how slang didn't make sense and he spoke of p**sy vs. Ba**s! Well, you can kind of read between the lines. If not, then look at the fight scene with all the aliens at the deneuralizer in MIB II! Yep, a CRUEL trick of nature. Male humans are among the few male mammals that have such a handicap. 8-( Then again, women aren't so secure against similar things. so hopefully they'll consider that more if they don't have a LEGITIMATE reason.

    As for the rest, I think everyone knows that, Then again, some women actually take advantage of that.

    But YEAH, your statement about racism is really true. Perhaps almost EVERYONE has encountered some *ism. And YEAH, women have enountered it as well, THAT is why they have been declared a "protected class". Under the law, women, even WHITE women, enjoy many of the privileges given NON WHITES. Some women even own companies because their husbands signed the business over so it could get government contracts.

    But you'll note nobody here has said women can't do this or that, And I am not. I find your statement about paul revere odd, but who am I to dispute it. GRANTED paul revere was only a smith that supposedly worked with softer metals, but he was probably fairly strong, and I DO find it odd.

    And Madame curie noticed xrays. GRANTED, she treated it in a foolish manner, but men can't claim to be perfect either. That simple observation did a LOT of good for people. IMAGINE people spared surgery, or that had their bones set right SIMPLY because of her little discovery.

    And there are MANY reasons why einstein may have shined with a wife, even if she were pretty stupid. Maybe he was VERY happy! Maybe he needed extra money. Maybe she somehow encouraged him to do it or send it out.

    And YEAH, every presidential ticket with a woman has lost BUT, most non presidential primaries with women in the last week WON! and over 40% of the supreme court are WOMEN!

    I STILL say there are many reasons to not have women on the front lines, etc.... but they are now CLOSE.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author antoncipri
    So...what in the hell is this whole discussion about? Women are equal to or even better than men?

    Ok...great now that we have that cleared up, what else can we discuss.

    Woman are DIFFERENT than men! It's just that simple. I love my mother and my sisters and my wife and my daughter. Yet not one of them will ever become the international cow tipping champion...and who the hell cares?

    I read Walter Isaacson's biography of Einstein last year. Regardless of the contributions of the women in his life, the major accomplishments would not have come fruition without the man himself.

    Let's not diminish or dilute Einstein's contributions to this world by bringing into play the sociological circumstances that were beyond his control.

    Remember...women are DIFFERENT! This is a GOOD thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by antoncipri View Post

      So...what in the hell is this whole discussion about? Women are equal to or even better than men?
      No, I don't think that's what this discussion is about.

      Let's not diminish or dilute Einstein's contributions to this world by bringing into play the sociological circumstances that were beyond his control.
      I don't think there's any proof of what transpired. But there are some things
      that are suggestive, if you read the article in the link above.

      Mdm Curie won the Nobel with her husband - pretty sure about that. If Einstein's
      contributions are ever diminished, diluted, or seriously questioned (which I doubt
      they ever will be.) then it will be of his own doing and not the sociological climate
      of his day.

      Remember...women are DIFFERENT!
      Thanks for stopping by and posting. But you're preaching to the choir.

      Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
    She shared the physics prize with her husband in 1903, in 1911 she won the chemistry Nobel by herself for the discovery of polonium and radium. She is the only person to ever win a Nobel prize in two different sciences.

    Regarding Steve's comment about her treating radiation foolishly, that is a grotesque statement. It was Curie who invented the word "radioactivity". Before her work no one on Earth had any knowledge of the danger.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

      She is the only person to ever win a Nobel prize in two different sciences.
      Linus Pauling won two Nobel prizes. One in chemistry for his work that
      became published, The Chemical Bond. The second was the Peace prize
      for his contribution to stop atmospheric testing of nuclear bombs.

      And as an interesting footnote, maybe, I attended a lecture given by Linus
      Pauling in 1981 or 82 when I was a student at Marquette University. He
      was getting up there in age, but his mind was extremely sharp. Pretty
      impressive listening to him talk.

      I also heard Edward Teller give a talk there while I was at Marquette. Teller
      was one of the physicists involved with the Manhattan Project.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
        Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

        Linus Pauling won two Nobel prizes. One in chemistry for his work that
        became published, The Chemical Bond. The second was the Peace prize
        for his contribution to stop atmospheric testing of nuclear bombs.
        Yes, and I believe others have also won twice. However, Madame Curie was the only person to win two where both were in sciences, different sciences.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

        I also heard Edward Teller give a talk there while I was at Marquette. Teller was one of the physicists involved with the Manhattan Project.
        Come on Ken, everyone knows it's Penn that does all the talking. Geesh.
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        • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Come on Ken, everyone knows it's Penn that does all the talking. Geesh.
          Oh damn. That's right. Ok, I heard a lecture given by Dr. Penn while I was a student.
          He was one of the physicists who worked on the Manhattan Project.

          (thanks for saving me, yet again.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Edge88
    Discrimination of ANY kind is wrong. We look back and think, how could it be possible that people were that thick. Yet the same is happening today and as usual most people are fine with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustinDupre
    Most problems in the past still a problem today. I like the quote behind every successful man, there is a woman.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Mr. Seasoned said...

    Well, I guess we can ask TL since he must be hundreds of years old to know such a thing!

    I'm not sure what he's referring to.


    The only thing I have said in this entire thread is...

    Revealing letters is one reason Thomas Jefferson burned as much of his stuff as possible.

    Ken opined that the letters of Einstein revealed that he wasn't such a cool guy and that that's why I said what I said.

    Because...

    I've read in a number of histories over the years that Mr. Jefferson burned much of his personal correspondence because...

    ... it would reveal parts of him that would be thought of by many as unflattering.

    I suspect a lot of what was burned related to his personal feelings about some of the founding fathers, the first president's politics and details regarding his fight to establish a political party.

    Jefferson and James Madison founded and led the Democratic-Republican Party.

    I did not comment on Einstein or the history of women etc.


    So I'm not sure what Mr. Seasoned is talking about.



    TL
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    • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      So I'm not sure what Mr. Seasoned is talking about.
      TL
      No one knows
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      If I had a dime for every time I have heard that I think I could buy a good bottle of Dom Pérignon.

      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post


      So I'm not sure what Mr. Seasoned is talking about.



      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        If I had a dime for every time I have heard that I think I could buy a good bottle of Dom Pérignon.
        Maybe we should start a collection. I like DOM.

        I was just pointing out that not only Einstein, but many men throughout the ages have had free rides via wives. I was being sociological, and guess I just ranted a bit, LOL. But it's true, women have done a lot and if a woman of genius wanted to do her own work through many ages, she had to use her husband for the front for it.

        I found out about Paul Revere's ride, I believe, in Boston on the Freedom Trail. Supposedly, Paul was being chased and jumped a fence (um...horse jumped it, anyway, since I know the propensity of some in here to get really technical about things), and something happened, he either fell off or the horse didn't clear the fence or something and Paul broke his leg and was captured. The woman was spoken of in papers in some museum out there (family trip, I don't remember) and basically she was considered scandalized for having been out in her night garments. And that's the story I got running around out around Historical tours in the East. Family holidays, you know.

        I still like the story of Nellie Cushman. She became a miner through rather a sinuous path. She always did some of her own mining even though she had acquired about 13 mines. She liked to work the ones in the Far Territories of Alaska. She was out in the Juneau area back in the mid or late 1800's, and a blizzard hit the town that many of her friends lived in. A lot of men tried to get through and none of em could make it. So she hired some dog sled teams and she was able to get through to them with food, medicines, etc. And I think that is one really kewl story.

        Oh Steve? Women, according to"official" archaeological thought, in fact, did discover smelting metal. Unofficially?...uh...who flippin' knows?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      TL,

      For someone that doesn't understand, your words seem to indicate you do. YEP, you spoke about ONE thing! So which of those many things must I have been talking about? 8-)

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny_C
    I think it's possible to credit Mileva with being instrumental to Einstein's success without diminishing Einstein's own brilliance. Whatever your position on that, this is a woman who disappeared under the shadow of her husband and may have been just as deserving of recognition.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by Danny_C View Post

      I think it's possible to credit Mileva with being instrumental to Einstein's success without diminishing Einstein's own brilliance. Whatever your position on that, this is a woman who disappeared under the shadow of her husband and may have been just as deserving of recognition.
      I agree, but based on all I've read including the essay at the PBS link, I
      wonder about his brilliance. But, it's just wondering and just opinion.

      I feel she was deserving of recognition, absolutely.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        I didn't see anything at the pbs site that made me wonder about or question Einstein's brilliance. He was no doubt positively influenced by her when he was younger, but there's no suggestion she had much at all to do with his scientific work, the most famous of which he finished after he separated from her.

        Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

        I agree, but based on all I've read including the essay at the PBS link, I
        wonder about his brilliance. But, it's just wondering and just opinion.
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        • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          I didn't see anything at the pbs site that made me wonder about or question Einstein's brilliance. He was no doubt positively influenced by her when he was younger, but there's no suggestion she had much at all to do with his scientific work, the most famous of which he finished after he separated from her.
          Looking at the entire essay, including excerpts from letters, it leads me to possible
          conclusions that it was more than just a positive influence. And I doubt PBS would
          openly suggest anything like that. These letters were discovered, I believe it was late
          80's, so they've been around for quite a while. As I made clear, it's conjecture and at
          the least it is implicitly suggested in the essay.

          Also, he employed the help of a mathematician to derive at his most famous formula. I
          read that in a book a very long time ago. But I would imagine it would not be difficult
          to find that information. And if memory serves correctly, the mathematician's last name
          is the same as mine. Or it may be spelled with the 'p' in it. I read that book I think in
          the early 80s.

          I'm not suggesting he was a flunkie. lol. Ok? But you've read my opinions on the matter.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
            Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

            Also, he employed the help of a mathematician to derive at his most famous formula. I
            read that in a book a very long time ago. But I would imagine it would not be difficult
            to find that information. And if memory serves correctly, the mathematician's last name
            is the same as mine. Or it may be spelled with the 'p' in it. I read that book I think in
            the early 80s.
            Sorry Ken, that's a myth long since debunked. He had people help with error checking but always knew his stuff.

            Search for - Einstein math myth. There are many resources, here's one.

            Physics Myth Month - Einstein Failed Mathematics?
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            • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
              Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

              Sorry Ken, that's a myth long since debunked. He had people help with error checking but always knew his stuff.

              Search for - Einstein math myth. There are many resources, here's one.

              Physics Myth Month - Einstein Failed Mathematics?
              That's ok, Lawrence, no need to be sorry. Guess it's not possible the
              myth busters are wrong? lol. Just kidding.

              That's really something because I read that particular one in a book, as I said.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Lawrence, Lawrence, Lawrence...

    You're slipping, buddy. There is no mention in that link of the
    person to whom I referred in my post above yours. Yes, I read
    the article and it was nothing new to me except the bit about
    Godel's conversation at Princeton. And maybe I did read that
    somewhere because I've read quite a bit about Einstein, but it
    was all a long time ago.

    So... I will reassert my comments about a mathematician named
    either Thompson, or Thomson, who played a significant role in
    the formulation of e = mc(2).

    But no worries, I'll leave my 'thanks' there for you.

    I did not read all the comments. So if it's in the comments, then let
    me know.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
      Not really, just not falling for the revisionist stuff. Finding reference to that person is unlikely. Many of these myths started with the anti-Semitic attacks against relativity prior to 1920. They even continue to this day, plus the fundamentalist christians have joined the fray, believing relativity is godless.

      The guy can't win. For as long as humans last, someone will try to diminish his accomplishments. It's just the way it is, sadly.

      Here's some more links, the first a thing Time did a while ago. The other two you may need to sterilize your brain after seeing.

      20 Things You Need to Know About Einstein - Did Einstein flunk math? - TIME

      This is a white supremacist site, enter with caution
      Albert Einstein: Jewish Plagarist, the "Genius" Myth, "The Big Lie," & More - Stormfront

      Biblebelievers.org, need I say more.
      Albert Einstein -- was he a thief, a liar and a plagiarist?
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Yeah, I've come across some of that racist crap before about Einstein. It's disgusting. The truth is Einstein is widely recognized as one of the greatest minds ever. Was he a perfect person? No. There never has been or will be.

        Einstein's first wife was someone also into science. Perhaps even brilliant herself. However, she didn't write the theory of relativity and I highly doubt she had a large influence on any of Einsteins greatest achievements.

        By the way, Einstein did employ mathematicians, including his first wife, to check his work for errors. Does this diminish his stature as one of the greatest minds ever? No.

        Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

        Not really, just not falling for the revisionist stuff. Finding reference to that person is unlikely. Many of these myths started with the anti-Semitic attacks against relativity prior to 1920. They even continue to this day, plus the fundamentalist christians have joined the fray, believing relativity is godless.

        The guy can't win. For as long as humans last, someone will try to diminish his accomplishments. It's just the way it is, sadly.

        Here's some more links, the first a thing Time did a while ago. The other two you may need to sterilize your brain after seeing.

        20 Things You Need to Know About Einstein - Did Einstein flunk math? - TIME

        This is a white supremacist site, enter with caution
        Albert Einstein: Jewish Plagarist, the "Genius" Myth, "The Big Lie," & More - Stormfront

        Biblebelievers.org, need I say more.
        Albert Einstein -- was he a thief, a liar and a plagiarist?
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      • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
        Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

        Not really, just not falling for the revisionist stuff.
        I don't think it's revisionist if it is true about this guy helping him to
        express his theory in a mathematical way. If he did, then he did. It's
        that simple.

        I got the impression that you were saying the info at that link had
        proof that the guy didn't help him, etc. That's all my point was. And
        I never implied or meant to imply he wasn't good at math. Sure, he
        know more than most with math, but apparently not for a physics
        doctorate. But it's not important.

        And I'm not part of any attempts at revision. It was just an interesting
        article to me. I'm not thinking about this when I go to bed at night.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
          Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

          Sure, he
          know more than most with math, but apparently not for a physics
          doctorate.
          In my last post, the link to the Times article, Einstein mastered differential and integral calculus before he was 15. He also, as a child, worked out his own proof for the Pythagorean theory. Throughout Einstein's education, he knew more that his professors.

          He never failed physics or math, never. Certainly not in his Doctoral dissertation, he just couldn't get any school to accept it for a year. Good thing, that year was 1905, the year he produced his first 4 papers. From one of the links -

          "The first showed that light could be conceived as particles as well as waves. The second proved the existence of atoms and molecules. The third, the special theory of relativity, said that there was no such thing as absolute time or space. And the fourth noted an equivalence between energy and mass described by the most famous equation in all of physics, E=mc2."

          He did this part time while working in the Swiss patent office. A job he held because no academic institution would let him give his dissertation or give him a job.

          The myth you are holding on to is only one of many attempts to discredit him. This same crap has been going on for 90 years and has been discredited over and over again.

          I did provide two links which support your views.
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          • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
            Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

            I did provide two links which support your views.
            Lawrence,

            I did not read all three links.

            You are incorrect if you think I am purposely attempting to discredit him. If I
            am operating from insufficient information, then I am.

            But I would appreciate it if you would temper your assumptions about what
            you consider to be my views.

            I know you like to be informed, so perhaps check out the link I provided about
            the history of relativity. I would be hard pressed to believe all of that can
            be lumped into what you would call the great conspiracy.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
              Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

              Lawrence,
              But I would appreciate it if you would temper your assumptions about what
              you consider to be my views.
              No assumptions beyond the tone of your statement about his doctorate.

              Einstein associated with, and was friends with most all of the best minds of the time. Everything he did was discussed amongst his circle of friends. Attribution of credit will always be brought up.

              Conspiracy? Check out those two links. That's literally been going on for 90 years.
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              “Strategy without action is a day-dream; action without strategy is a nightmare.” – Old Japanese proverb -

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              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                Stephen Hawking - "Einstein is the only figure in the physical sciences with a stature that can be compared with Newton. Newton is reported to have said 'If I have seen further than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants.' This remark is even more true of Einstein who stood on the shoulders of Newton."

                I agree with Ken and Sal about how women have been held back and not given credit for their achievements. It's a disgusting fact that unfortunately is still going on. Hopefully someday this world will be truly civilized, equal and enlightened.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  Stephen Hawking - "Einstein is the only figure in the physical sciences with a stature that can be compared with Newton. Newton is reported to have said 'If I have seen further than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants.' This remark is even more true of Einstein who stood on the shoulders of Newton."

                  I agree with Ken and Sal about how women have been held back and not given credit for their achievements. It's a disgusting fact that unfortunately is still going on. Hopefully someday this world will be truly civilized, equal and enlightened.
                  HEY, a MALE relative of mine says he basically invented ISAM! Is that the truth? Well, I can't track its creation BEFORE he worked for IBM. SOME, like the "creators" of btree, SEVERELY post date the era so, though they MIGHT have created a program/api/routines, they did NOT create the first use of the concept!

                  And look at the first part of the reference in wikipedia...

                  ISAM stands for Indexed Sequential Access Method, a method for indexing data for fast retrieval. ISAM was originally developed by IBM for mainframe computers.
                  But IBM DIDN'T create it! WHO were the people IN IBM that did!?!?

                  So why would he have not gotten credit? It is WELL known that, at that time, IBM had any potential employees sign away rights to ANY credit or things they produced. And most of those employees were MALE!

                  So HEY, it affects EVERYONE!

                  BTW ISAM is the base method used by all databases. So even this little forum is using it.

                  Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                    My Uncle Sam died last year at age 85. He was still going to work everyday up until a couple months before he died when he fell and got injured. Great guy. Uncle Sam gave me my first job that paid me and the other Uncle Sam took some of the money away every paycheck.

                    My Uncle Sam had a son who also worked at the same place, a large lumberyard. During this time some crazy dude in New York was on a killing spree and was named Son of Sam. So of course people started calling my cousin Son of Sam. My cousin was also a bit deranged so it was pretty funny.

                    Never heard of ISAM though. I do like I-Roy a lot.
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                      Never heard of ISAM though. I do like I-Roy a lot.
                      ISAM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      In a nutshell, PREVIOUS computer systems searched until the item was found, or assigned a number relating to a record. ISAM allows some unique key value, like first/last name, etc... to be used to automatically do a binary search. So the first try excludes 50% of the database, the second 50% of that, etc... so looking for an item in 1 million entries may take 17 tries as opposed to 1 million. Of course, that is all done transparently behind the scenes. 1 million could take a long time, but 17 is practically the blink of an eye.

                      It IS a simple idea, but still FAR more complicated than some of the crazy things patents have been awarded for, and it is used practically EVERYWHERE today!

                      Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
                    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                    So why would he have not gotten credit? It is WELL known that, at that time, IBM had any potential employees sign away rights to ANY credit or things they produced. And most of those employees were MALE!

                    So HEY, it affects EVERYONE!

                    Steve
                    That is still a standard practice, as far as I know. There are some
                    exceptions, and I don't know how they arise. For example, when I
                    was a student at Marquette there was a chemistry professor who
                    was a former employee of Dupont, huge here in Delaware, and he
                    invented one of Dupont's extremely well known materials. I can't
                    remember which one and don't want to hazard a guess. Apparently
                    he was paid some very small percentage that was along the lines
                    of profit sharing. Very small percentage, but even that small amount
                    of huge profits is pretty good.

                    But I think that is not the usual scenario.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
            Einstein was fully aware of Lorenz's work. IIRC the biggest difference was Einstein's use of inertial reference frames plus he put a speed limit on light. Lorenz did neither. With his relativity you can exceed the speed of light. Something still not accepted.

            But his lack of reference frames resulted in his relativity being used to time sync the GPS satellites. Something that can't be done with Einstein's version.

            Going beyond this without math is pointless.
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            “Strategy without action is a day-dream; action without strategy is a nightmare.” – Old Japanese proverb -

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            • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
              Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

              Going beyond this without math is pointless.
              Agreed.....
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Thanks Lawrence for the info because it led me to the following link.
    Check it out if you're interested...

    It's not a revisionist site of the kind that you mentioned. But it does
    have pretty interesting information about the history of relativity. At
    least it's interesting to me.

    Who Invented Relativity?
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Well I'll tell you, I'm not exactly sure what to believe. This must
    truly be a massive conspiracy that has influenced every book, or
    however many that have been published about him - I do not know.

    I'm not arguing one way or the other. And I don't really care, either.

    I'd be interested to know about a book with more conclusive information.
    Something other than the person in question attesting to his own abilities.

    Sorry, but that's not enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Okay, I don't get it. Saying that his wife was actually responsible for the theories may discredit Einstein personally, but it doesn't discredit the theories themselves. So who would have such a personal voova against Einstein that they would destroy the man even though the theories would hold the same wieght no matter who had forwarded them?
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Okay, I don't get it. Saying that his wife was actually responsible for the theories may discredit Einstein personally, but it doesn't discredit the theories themselves. So who would have such a personal voova against Einstein that they would destroy the man even though the theories would hold the same wieght no matter who had forwarded them?
      She wasn't responsible for the theories. She helped with the math and did valuable error checking. In 1919 the politics of his ethnicity were being used to stop him getting the Noble prize. It's still going on.

      EDIT: Did you find any gold?
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      “Strategy without action is a day-dream; action without strategy is a nightmare.” – Old Japanese proverb -

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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    No one is saying she's responsible. Maybe had some kind of contribution,
    in some way... to what degree.. who knows.

    But it seems there has been a conspiracy going on for a very long time
    to discredit him. Has to do with religion, etc, etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamian
    Thank you for this informative post!I thought Einstein does not exist.
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    Affiliate Marketing explained for beginners >>
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      He's dead so you were right. However, I think you have missed the point somewhat.

      Originally Posted by Jamian View Post

      Thank you for this informative post!I thought Einstein does not exist.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    “The absence of evidence is no evidence for absence.”
    - Carl Sagan, physicist


    Mileva Einstein-Marić | Biographies

    For those who may have an interest to know more... because I sure do.

    If anyone wonders about my agenda, it is to know the truth - nothing more.

    Ken Thompson
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