Be honest...Are you voting based on race?

15 years ago

I am not an American, so I can't vote...

And I would like to make a little correction.

McCain still HAS questionable affiliations, it's not past for him, it's present.

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Alex Sol

15 years ago

Originally Posted by espacecadet

No. I can't stand either one of the candidates that were forced upon us by the mainstream media (they only cover debates by the two so-called frontrunners and no one else.)

I'm not even bothering to exercise my right to vote this year. I've had enough of the bulls**t. These two bufoons don't deserve my prescious vote.

And when everything goes in the crapper, I'll honestly be able to say Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him.

I'm much more concerned about the possibility of Obama being funded by overseas Muslims than I ever would be by the color of the mans skin. If he's a closet-Muslim what could he do once he gains the power of the Presidency?

And McCain? Don't get me started.

In Canada, when you go vote there is an option that says:
-I wish to not give my vote to any of the candidates...

... which I find a better option than NO VOTING at all.

I am wondering if you have that in the USA.

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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by espacecadet

No. I can't stand either one of the candidates that were forced upon us by the mainstream media (they only cover debates by the two so-called frontrunners and no one else.)

I'm not even bothering to exercise my right to vote this year. I've had enough of the bulls**t. These two bufoons don't deserve my prescious vote.

And when everything goes in the crapper, I'll honestly be able to say Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him.

I'm much more concerned about the possibility of Obama being funded by overseas Muslims than I ever would be by the color of the mans skin. If he's a closet-Muslim what could he do once he gains the power of the Presidency?

And McCain? Don't get me started.

Muslims are great people. Even the ones overseas.
What point are you making?

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Alex Sol 15 years ago

Originally Posted by marcanthony

Muslims are great people. Even the ones overseas.
What point are you making?

I hope you are not talking about the religious ones;
"Destroy the non believers and the infidels..."
... doesn't sound that great to me!
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- TimPhelan 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Alex Sol
  
  I hope you are not talking about the religious ones;
  "Destroy the non believers and the infidels..."
  ... doesn't sound that great to me!
  
  All muslims are religious. The point Marc is making is that 99.9% of Muslims are not terrorists.
  
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  Alex Sol 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  All muslims are religious. The point Marc is making is that 99.9% of Muslims are not terrorists.
  
  Well, I don't think you can measure it so precisely.
  
  ... I agree, there are lots of GREAT people who are muslim and only a few extremist... and I doubt that Obama is one of these extremists or that he is affiliated with them.
  
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ThomM 15 years ago

Never had, never will.
In fact this year the party I normally vote for is running 2 black women for president and vice president.
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TimPhelan

15 years ago

The possibilty exists that McCain is a communist also.

Again, I'm not saying that is a reality that Obama is receiving funding from those groups, I'm saying the possibility exists.

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Alex Sol

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

The possibilty exists that McCain is a communist also.

lol... I doubt he is though!

He voted on 90% of BUSH's propositions... meaning that McCain is simply the NEXT Bush, which will lead the USA in more useless wars, waste of money - and well, you know the rest.

And as far as I knoe, Bush is not a communist

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Sol

lol... I doubt he is though!

He voted on 90% of BUSH's propositions... meaning that McCain is simply the NEXT Bush, which will lead the USA in more useless wars, waste of money - and well, you know the rest.

And as far as I knoe, Bush is not a communist

You never know. Have you ever seen The Manchurian Candidate? :-) I mean, if we are going to go into what ifs and maybes.

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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by espacecadet

Yes, Muslims are good people, but too often Muslims have been associated with terrorism, too. And you can't ignore the fact that certain Muslims believe that if you don't believe the way they believe, they are under an edict to kill you, no matter who or where you are. The possibility exists that, if Obama is receiving campaign funding from overseas (and it looks likely), it could be coming from groups who do not have the best interests of the United States in mind.

Again, I'm not saying that is a reality that Obama is receiving funding from those groups, I'm saying the possibility exists.

I'd hate to find out once the man is President.

No one here can say they knew back in 2000 that Bush and Cheney would become the evil they have become. We need a President who we can trust, and I for one do not trust Barack Obama, no matter what his middle name is.

Understood! Thanks!

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

If Martin Luther King were alive today, I'd vote for him for president in a
heartbeat.

Obama? McCain?

I'm seriously considering moving to Australia to be with my friend Andrew
Cavanagh. He is SUCH a nice guy and a great copywriter.

I doubt I'll vote this year...and that is pretty sad.

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I doubt I'll vote this year...and that is pretty sad.

Yes, it is sad. There are huge differences and this election is important. Vote.

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Jeremy123 15 years ago

I'm voting independent because I don't trust either one.
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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yes, it is sad. There are huge differences and this election is important. Vote.

Vote for what, the lesser of two evils? I couldn't live with myself if I had
a hand in letting either of these two fools into the White House.

Sure, I could do the write in ballot thing. But who is that fooling? It's the
same as not voting. My vote won't mean diddly.

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

OK, well this thread is for those who are voting. Why are those who aren't voting responding to this thread?

By the way, I don't like all of McCain's positions and I do come down hard on him here, but he isn't a fool or is Obama. Those who don't vote at all in this country, don't really even know the issues as you admitted before and then call both candidates fools, kind of sounds like one IMO.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Vote for what, the lesser of two evils? I couldn't live with myself if I had
a hand in letting either of these two fools into the White House.

Sure, I could do the write in ballot thing. But who is that fooling? It's the
same as not voting. My vote won't mean diddly.

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KimW 15 years ago

Originally Posted by espacecadet

No one here can say they knew back in 2000 that Bush and Cheney would become the evil they have become.

I can say it.
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- ThomM 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  I can say it.
  
  After following his father as head of the CIA and as president the first words out of my mouth after the 2000 elections where "We're so f**ked".
  
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Kevin Riley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by espacecadet

Yes, Muslims are good people, but too often Muslims have been associated with terrorism, too.

I come from Irish stock. The IRA are terrorists. Does that make me a terrorist?

OK, forget the beard ... and that I look like a wild-eyed terrorist ... and ... er ... forget it. Where's the bar?

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

I come from Irish stock. The IRA are terrorists. Does that make me a terrorist?

OK, forget the beard ... and that I look like a wild-eyed terrorist ... and ... er ... forget it. Where's the bar?

You could be one of them black irish arabs. A one man sleeper cell.

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

There's no doubt about it. It still takes place in some homes today. But my experience with black people is that they (and this is a generalization) tend to think there are a whole lot more white people who are racist than what there really are. I have met a few, but very, very few, and I live in the heart of Kentucky.

My experience is that there are many levels of racism and I probably think that number you mention is much higher than you think. That video I posted shows that there is something woven into the society that is very complex. I mean, if these black kids think that the white doll is the good doll, where does that come from? Society.

You mentioned earlier that you aren't reponsible for your forefathers, but you do have a say in what our society is now.

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Kevin Riley 15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You could be one of them black irish arabs. A one man sleeper cell.

You're right. I'm going to have to keep an eye on myself.
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rondo

15 years ago

Please don't pass up this opportunity to vote guys.

Don't you realise millions of us in others countries would love to vote in this particular election if we could.

Andrew

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HeySal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by rondo

Please don't pass up this opportunity to vote guys.

Don't you realise millions of us in others countries would love to vote in this particular election if we could.

Andrew

Why? It's already decided. But - Allen, we need every person we can get voting 3rd party this election. A third party candidate might not win, but enough third party votes can send a decidedly loud message to our leaders - such as that quite a large amount of citizens are awake and extremely fed up. Don't just say "forget it" - vote third party.

Alex - Bush and McCain are fascist. Obama is more of a Marxist. The problem with the possibility of him being Muslim (which he was heard to slip and admit not long ago, but I can't find the tape again, go figure) is that people are concerned he might have some ideas about Shari law in America - and not too many in this country are going to get with that program. Either candidate and we lose our constitution completely. THAT has already been in the works and has already been decided. Unfortunately, our citizenship is not bright enough to ask why only two candidates are being heard and aren't paying attention to the crimes the Dem/Rep are already committing even before they are elected. Vote for Obama, LOL - he has his own freaking flag. You'd think that might be one major hint, but it's not computing for some reason. We are sooooooo f***ed.

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Kurt 15 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Vote for Obama, LOL - he has his own freaking flag. You'd think that might be one major hint, but it's not computing for some reason. We are sooooooo f***ed.

You know, stating facts that are incorrect that hurt another's reputation is considered slander/libel.

The flag with the "O" on it? That's the state flag of Ohio:
Media Matters - Radio host Bob Grant asserted that Obama created an " 'O' flag," but apparent flag in question was Ohio's

After you read it, you may want to apologize. And after you give it some thought, it may dawn on you why that's "not computing for some reason".
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- clint48 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kurt
  
  You know, stating facts that are incorrect that hurt another's reputation is considered slander/libel.
  
  If that is true Kurt, why haven't Obama and McCain been arrested? Both of them have stated facts against each other that were incorrect.lol
  
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Kay King

15 years ago

No one here can say they knew back in 2000 that Bush and Cheney would become the evil they have become. We need a President who we can trust, and I for one do not trust Barack Obama, no matter what his middle name is.

There were a lot of us that fully believed the Bush/Cheney combination was dangerous. At the time of the first Bush election, I wrote "good luck, USA - we are about to get the government we deserve..."

Forget the labels. Bush couldn't even spell (or say) fascist.

Bush was elected for only two reasons:
1. His father's image and friends
2. His appearance - he looked honest and friendly and nice. Guess if you "look like" you'd be a good President, it must be so.

My own fear is that we are about to veer from the far right to the far left - when what need is center line balance.

Sorry, Marc - got off track -

No, race doesn't matter to me. And Islam is no better nor worse than any other religion. They all have their zealots - and Christians (and this country) are no different. Salem Witch Trials, the McCarthy era - just two examples. Violence and hate will always have followers - and those followers will always interpret their religion to their own benefit.

kay

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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

There were a lot of us that fully believed the Bush/Cheney combination was dangerous. At the time of the first Bush election, I wrote "good luck, USA - we are about to get the government we deserve..."

Forget the labels. Bush couldn't even spell (or say) fascist.

Bush was elected for only two reasons:
1. His father's image and friends
2. His appearance - he looked honest and friendly and nice. Guess if you "look like" you'd be a good President, it must be so.

My own fear is that we are about to veer from the far right to the far left - when what need is center line balance.

Sorry, Marc - got off track -

No, race doesn't matter to me. And Islam is no better nor worse than any other religion. They all have their zealots - and Christians (and this country) are no different. Salem Witch Trials, the McCarthy era - just two examples. Violence and hate will always have followers - and those followers will always interpret their religion to their own benefit.

kay

Thanks Kay!

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marcanthony

15 years ago

Thank you everyone! This is always going to be an important question for me. I always want to believe the racism can be eradicated. And, even though that's wishful thinking... I still hold on to it.

I have to admit, I've been called a Nigger to my face by a white person more than once. And, during those moments. I held temporary resentment for white people. I got over it instantly each time because I really think that the whole race thing is stupid. And, it's just not in me to dislike anyone because of skin color.

But, it's crazy to actually be confronted with genuine racism. To know that there is absolutely nothing that you can do to get the person that's being racist towards you to change their view... it's overwhelming.

Now don't get me wrong. Even though I think racism is dumb. I do believe that people are entitled to dislike whoever they want for whatever reasons they choose.

But that's just me!

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KimW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by marcanthony

I have to admit, I've been called a Nigger to my face by a white person more than once. And, during those moments. I held temporary resentment for white people. I got over it instantly each time because I really think that the whole race thing is stupid. And, it's just not in me to dislike anyone because of skin color.

And I have been called cracker and honkey and every other name under the sun by black people.I have also been physically attacked for no reason other than being white by some black people.
Going off on a tangent for a moment, I will not call a black person an African -American. I don't believe in hyphenated races.Your black or your not. Your caucasion or your not.Your Hispanic or your not. I think most of you are smart enough to get the picture. And most of us in the USA are American. Not African-American, Not Mexican-American,Not-Irish-American,blah blah blah.
Those that use terms like that use them to intentionally divide us apart.
I will be the firt to admit there are some black people Ive met I didn't like. But there are a lot more white people that I've met that I didn't like too.
The difference is that if I say I don't like the black person, I am automatically defined as a racist, which isn't true.
There are good people and there are bad people of every race. Every ethnic background.
Going back on topic now, I have to say there are times I have had racist moments. Like when I was a new student in a new high school here in Va and got beat up by a group of black kids.
I'm going to say one more thing that is not going to be very poipular, but it's very true.
Look at the population statistics. Blacks and Hispaniics are no longer the minorities in the country. But next to Hispanics,which are growing because they are here illegally, the fastest rising group is Asian.Your average white person is prejected to be the minority in less than 20 years
Something toi think about.
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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

And I have been called cracker and honkey and every other name under the sun by black people.I have also been physically attacked for no reason other than being white by some black people.
Going off on a tangent for a moment, I will not call a black person an African -American. I don't believe in hyphenated races.Your black or your not. Your caucasion or your not.Your Hispanic or your not. I think most of you are smart enough to get the picture. And most of us in the USA are American. Not African-American, Not Mexican-American,Not-Irish-American,blah blah blah.
Those that use terms like that use them to intentionally divide us apart.
I will be the firt to admit there are some black people Ive met I didn't like. But there are a lot more white people that I've met that I didn't like too.
The difference is that if I say I don't like the black person, I am automatically defined as a racist, which isn't true.
There are good people and there are bad people of every race. Every ethnic background.
Going back on topic now, I have to say there are times I have had racist moments. Like when I was a new student in a new high school here in Va and got beat up by a group of black kids.
I'm going to say one more thing that is not going to be very poipular, but it's very true.
Look at the population statistics. Blacks and Hispaniics are no longer the minorities in the country. But next to Hispanics,which are growing because they are here illegally, the fastest rising group is Asian.Your average white person is prejected to be the minority in less than 20 years
Something toi think about.
Sometimes music can express something better than just words,so I'm leaving you with a song;
YouTube - Depeche Mode - People Are People

PS: I'm a Maverick-Wouldn't you like to be a Maverick too?

Thank you for the honest response. I totally agree with your comment on hyphenated races. Personally, I can not stand being called African-American. Why? Because I'm not.

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acreativetouch

15 years ago

I vote based on the politics of the candidate. This year, I'm voting Constitution Party--Chuck Baldwin. Baldwin 08 - Let the TRUTH be HEARD!

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NetVenturer

15 years ago

I'm willing to admit I have already voted and the candidate's race had nothing to do with it. I was much more interested in tax policies and views on health insurance.

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buckapple 15 years ago

I was going to vote for Obama until I found out he was half white......

Seriously, like Dr. King said, it's the content of the character, not the color of the skin.

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KimW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by espacecadet

Uh, look at what statistics?

Sorry, KimW, but Blacks, Hispanics and Asians are still minorities in America, and will be for longer than 20 years. White people still have babies, too.

Did you look at the latest government statistics and population forcasts or are you just commenting without researching?
White people ARE still having babies, like any race is, but in far lower numbers than the other races.
But if you do your research you will see that my statements are correct and yours are incorrect. This is not a reflection on anything other than the facts. According to the latest reports,Hispanics will be the majority in the United States in less than 20 years,followed by Asians,then Blacks, then Caucasions.
Look it up.

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KimW

15 years ago

marc,
In case my excessively long post didn't make myself clear. I agree with you. Racism is stupid.

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marcanthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

marc,
In case my excessively long post didn't make myself clear. I agree with you. Racism is stupid.

Understood!
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KimW

15 years ago

Steven, which election has NOT been the lesser of two evils?

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Barry Davis

15 years ago

I could care less about race. I wish I could say the same for Colin Powell, Oprah, and the 9 out of 10 black people who claim they are voting for Obama, most for the sole reason that he claims to be black. What if white people said, "I'm voting for McCain because he is white." We'd all be labeled racists. But if you're voting for Obama because he shares your skin color, that is somehow okay???

The funny thing is, the guy is just as much white as he is black. The fact that he is emphasizing his black father rather than his white mother is simply playing the race card for votes.

Again, I don't care what color or gender the person is. Black, White, or Other, it makes absolutely no difference to me. We are all equal in God's eyes.

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KimW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by espacecadet

Whoa, KimW! I don't need to do any checking. I'm not the one who just threw it out there:

" Look at the population statistics. Blacks and Hispaniics are no longer the minorities in the country. But next to Hispanics,which are growing because they are here illegally, the fastest rising group is Asian.Your average white person is prejected to be the minority in less than 20 years." KimW

I'm not trying to be a ball buster here, but if you're going to say something like that it'd be nice if you could post a URL to those statistics that say as much.

Saying that Blacks, Hispanics and Asians are no longer minorities in a country founded by White Europeans is a bit of a stretch. :rolleyes:

No, I didn't post a link, nor am I going to, but I did tell you where to find the information.

As far as this:"Saying that Blacks, Hispanics and Asians are no longer minorities in a country founded by White Europeans is a bit of a stretch."

Not a stretch at all. There are many situations of a current entity being nothing at all like its foudning situation.

By the way here is the definition :
6 dictionary results for: minority
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share Thismi·nor·i·ty

/mɪˈnɔr

ɪ

ti, -ˈnɒr, -maɪ-/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mi-nawr-i-tee, -nor, -mahy-]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationnoun, plural -ties, adjective -noun 1.the smaller part or number; a number, part, or amount forming less than half of the whole. 2.a smaller party or group opposed to a majority, as in voting or other action. 3.a group differing, esp. in race, religion, or ethnic background, from the majority of a population: legislation aimed at providing equal rights for minorities. 4.a member of such a group. 5.the state or period of being under the legal age of full responsibility.

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

I wish I could say the same for Colin Powell, Oprah, and the 9 out of 10 black people who claim they are voting for Obama, most for the sole reason that he claims to be black. What if white people said, "I'm voting for McCain because he is white." We'd all be labeled racists. But if you're voting for Obama because he shares your skin color, that is somehow okay???

The funny thing is, the guy is just as much white as he is black. The fact that he is emphasizing his black father rather than his white mother is simply playing the race card for votes.

This just doesn't make sense. You claim Powell and Oprah are voting for Obama for the sole reason he is black, although they never have said that ( I guess you can read their minds ) but then you say he isn't black.

Also, when and where has Obama emphasized his black father more than his white mother? This is ridiculous. Yeh, playing the race card. lol.

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Barry Davis

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Also, when and where has Obama emphasized his black father more than his white mother? This is ridiculous. Yeh, playing the race card. lol.

Have you read Obama's book, Dreams of My Father?

Here are a few quotes:

'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'

'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

That doesn't mean he emphasized his dad more to get votes or as you say "play the race card". That was a young man trying to deal with "who am I?" like you did when you were younger Barry.

You may not realize this, but most people who have parents who are black and white consider themselves black first. For various reasons I would think, but one of the main is that is how society sees them. Also out of pride.

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

Have you read Obama's book, Dreams of My Father?

Here are a few quotes:

'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'

'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

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Barry Davis

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

That doesn't mean he emphasized his dad more to get votes or as you say "play the race card". That was a young man trying to deal with "who am I?" like you did when you were younger Barry.

You may not realize this, but most people who have parents who are black and white consider themselves black first. For various reasons I would think, but one of the main is that is how society sees them. Also out of pride.

C'mon Tim. This guy is as racist as any KKK member. He just happens to be a liberal.

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

C'mon Tim. This guy is as racist as any KKK member. He just happens to be a liberal.

I think you are racist Barry. See. It's easy to say. You think Obama is racist. I think you are. Simple eh?

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Barry Davis

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I think you are racist Barry. See. It's easy to say. You think Obama is racist. I think you are. Simple eh?

No, it isn't that easy. Please quote ONE racist remark that I have ever made? I can save you some time, you won't find one. I just quoted several from Obama and could give you a lot more if you would like.

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

No, it isn't that easy. Please quote ONE racist remark that I have ever made? I can save you some time, you won't find one. I just quoted several from Obama and could give you a lot more if you would like.

You made it that easy. There isn't anything in what Obama said that is racist.

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Barry Davis

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You made it that easy. There isn't anything in what Obama said that is racist.

Okay, let's say I said the same things Obama did, but I switch races in the quotes. You don't think that black people would consider me a racist if I said those same things?

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

It's not that easy Barry. You have to look at the racist history of this country. Including our godlike "founding fathers" who were racists. Old George Washington had 300 slaves when he died. He knew it was wrong also, but didn't want to free them until he and Martha died. What an assh*le he was. Racism has been one of the pillars of this country. I love this country, but lets be honest here. Racists, white racists, have ruled this country from the start. Don't play that "change the word black to white" game. That's simple minded and a week arguement.

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

Okay, let's say I said the same things Obama did, but I switch races in the quotes. You don't think that black people would consider me a racist if I said those same things?

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Barry Davis

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Don't play that "change the word black to white" game. That's simple minded and a week arguement.

It is not a weak argument. White and Black and everyone else all need to play by the same rules. If a certain behavior or statement is racist for one group, then it is racist for all.

You know just as well as I do, that if McCain had published similar statements about the black race that he would not even be involved in this election.

You act like Obama isn't playing the race card, but he has people like you playing it along with him by trying to make one rule for whites and another rule for blacks. If we are all truly equal, as I believe we are, then all the rules apply to all of us equally.

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

It's nice you want to play by the same rules now Barry. lol.

There's nothing racist about what Obama said. He just saw a lot of racist whites in the world around him, knew history and responded. That makes him a racist? That's dumb. The truth is there was and still is unfortunatly many racist people. But I don't see anything Obama has said or done to make him a racist.

The only people who tried and succeeded to make one rule for whites and one rule for blacks were the racists whites in this country Barry. Actual laws I'm talking about. Read our history a little more closely. Then you may understand.

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

It is not a weak argument. White and Black and everyone else all need to play by the same rules. If a certain behavior or statement is racist for one group, then it is racist for all.

You know just as well as I do, that if McCain had published similar statements about the black race that he would not even be involved in this election.

You act like Obama isn't playing the race card, but he has people like you playing it along with him by trying to make one rule for whites and another rule for blacks. If we are all truly equal, as I believe we are, then all the rules apply to all of us equally.

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Barry Davis 15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It's nice you want to play by the same rules now Barry.

I always have. I'm not responsible for what my forefathers have done and refuse to accept blame for their actions.
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KimW 15 years ago

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- Barry Davis 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  "Correct. And one more reason not to vote for this racist. "
  
  So saying that someone else is a racist makes you a racist? Wow, I guess I took Logic for nothing
  
  Hey, I think I'll call myself a "billionaire" so I can instantly become one.
  
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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

Have you read Obama's book, Dreams of My Father?

Here are a few quotes:

'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'

'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

In all fairness, I don't believe that these are the comments of a racist.

Believe it or not there is a very large sub-culture of black people that are suffering from major identity crisis.

Sure... blacks pull the race card much faster than any other race. So, I'm not being naive. But these comment are very common for a lot of black people.

The fact that he is half and half makes the crisis more of a crisis.

Just like many white kids have been raised to think that black is bad... black kids are raised in a very similar way.

Our parents taught us things like:

You have to work twice as hard to be average
Be careful when dealing with white people
They show us horrific images of slavery

That list can go on and on. But faulting Obama for experiencing feeling like this in his life is not 100% fair.

And, to call him racist is even more unfair.

However, I respect your opinion on this matter.

I just have one question for you. What would it take to change your mind that Obama is not racist? In other words, is there a chance in your mind that you may be wrong?

What are your thoughts?

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TimPhelan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by marcanthony

Just like many white kids have been raised to think that black is bad... black kids are raised in a very similar way.

This video is pretty sad and shows what you are saying Marc. Plus, it shows we still have a long way to go.

YouTube - Black or White something to think about

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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

This video is pretty sad and shows what you are saying Marc. Plus, it shows we still have a long way to go.

YouTube - Black or White something to think about

This is the behavior that manifests itself into the thought process of a young black person.

Honestly, if each race could switch shoes for a day. I'm sure we would all be surprised by the experience.

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espacecadet

Banned 15 years ago

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Barry Davis 15 years ago

Originally Posted by espacecadet

Well, that pretty much says it, straight from the horses mouth.

Correct. And one more reason not to vote for this racist.
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wilhb81

15 years ago

Definitely not, as I mostly voting for those that have ability to rule the country, rather than bluffing on the stage...

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KimW

15 years ago

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Barry Davis 15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Many of your post seem racist to me

You've got to be kidding me. Name one racist remark that I have ever made on this forum. You might as well just admit that you made that one up, because you won't find any.
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- KimW 15 years ago
  
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  Barry Davis 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  Everything is open to interpetation. But I can't say I made it up beause I'm very sincere in my belief.
  
  If you are going to make such irresponsible statements you need to either back them up with some quotes or an apology.
  
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  Wakunahum 15 years ago
  
  No, I'm not voting based on race. It seems like a very weak reason to vote for someone.
  
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Kurt

15 years ago

Again, I'm in to facts. I've seen John McCain in an interview admit he hates all Vietnamese. And he was unapologetic about it.

I am not reading between any lines, just posting what I heard him say directly.

However, his reason was he was tortured by them for 5+ years.

I'm not going to judge McCain on this. He is a self-described racist against a certain group of people, but I imagine it would be hard not to be for anyone that was in his position. But I wonder how some Vietnamese-
Americans feel about this?

And I'll give Obama the same respect. No one knows what's in his heart or how he was treated as a youth. I'm pretty sure the law (society) already determined he was black. In some states, if you're like 1/16th black, you're black. And I'm sure if he was called racial slurs by whites, but accepted by blacks, he would naturally migrate to the black heritage.

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KimW

15 years ago

Look at your sig.I find most of your post very contrary to a man of the cloth.Of course, I'm making an assumption that is what you are .based on your sig.
As far as irresponsible statements,I don't feel I made any. I have voiced opinions that you don't agree with, just as you have voiced many that I don't agree with. And as I said before, our ability to do so is what makes America the country that it is.

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Barry Davis

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Look at your sig. I find most of your post very contrary to a man of the cloth.

Again, proof?

As far as irresponsible statements,I don't feel I made any.

You said that "many" of my posts were racist, yet cannot post one quote of a racist comment I have made. I would say that is a tad bit irresponsible.

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Kurt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

Again, proof?

You said that "many" of my posts were racist, yet cannot post one quote of a racist comment I have made. I would say that is a tad bit irresponsible.

I'm not going to judge on this, as I don't know what's in your heart and will accept your word.

However, asking others for "proof" when you rarely offer any yourself when putting down others seems a little hipocritical.

And why we're on the topic, in these videos we've seen were McCain supporters are calling Obama a "muslem" also racist? Not only are they factually wrong, they are racist against muslems, who the vast majority are friendly, peaceful people. This one-sidedness of your's may be part of the reason some are calling you a racist.

Again, I haven't seen nearly enough from you to call you a racist...Only pointing out why some others may feel this way...And you are doing the exact to Obama.

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espacecadet

Banned 15 years ago

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KimW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by espacecadet

This topic is devolving into nothing but I hate you, you hate me, blah, blah, blah.

I don't care what anyone says or claims. Inside we all racist to some degree.

I'm outta here.

There are very few people in this world I hate, and none on this forum. I do believe in the exchange of ideas, and also in open communication.

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KimW

15 years ago

Actually I did quote a post I felt was racist. My mistake for saying many. I looked up some other posts by you and found only one other I felt was racist,so it is only two.I apologize.Tho I did not go thru all of your posts.
As far as a man of the cloth, you don't seem to understand the concept of opinion. It is my opinion from the impression I get from your posts that you do not practice the beliefs that I atribute to a man of the cloth.
In any case,you have gotten your apology and my opinion remains unchanged. Have a nice day.

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Barry Davis

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Actually I did quote a post I felt was racist. My mistake for saying many. I looked up some other posts by you and found only one other I felt was racist,so it is only two.I apologize.Tho I did not go thru all of your posts.
As far as a man of the cloth, you don't seem to understand the concept of opinion. It is my opinion from the impression I get from your posts that you do not practice the beliefs that I atribute to a man of the cloth.
In any case,you have gotten your apology and my opinion remains unchanged. Have a nice day.

In other words, you made your statements out of ignorance and you have nothing to back them up. Thanks!

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KimW 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

In other words, you made your statements out of ignorance and you have nothing to back them up. Thanks!

um, no.
Thanks for playing!
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KimW

15 years ago

Thank you espacecadet, you and I disagree on a lot of things, but at least we seem to agree to disagree.

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Barry Davis

15 years ago

Just like many white kids have been raised to think that black is bad... black kids are raised in a very similar way.

But I don't believe that "many" white kids are raised to think that. Obviously there are some, but I'm certain it is a very small minority. I was born in the early 60s and never heard one negative thing said about black people in our household.

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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

But I don't believe that "many" white kids are raised to think that. Obviously there are some, but I'm certain it is a very small minority. I was born in the early 60s and never heard one negative thing said about black people in our household.

I have to generalize because I don't know specific numbers... I think you understood that.

If it makes if more fair to you, just replace "many" with "some."

And maybe, when you were growing up in the 60's you never heard that kind of talk at home. But, you know it took place in other homes... especially in the 60's.

My great-grandmother was a white supremacist and she definitely raised her white son(my grandfather) that way. In fact, when I was a little kid I was told that she never wanted to see me because I was nothing more than a nigger baby to her... no bid deal, I understand the times.

The real truth is that it would be very difficult to produce accurate stat ratios to compare anything between blacks and whites because there are way more white people than black people in America.

So if I choose to say "many" just understand that I mean more than 100 people.

Take care Barry!

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KimW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by marcanthony

The real truth is that it would be very difficult to produce accurate stat ratios to compare anything between blacks and whites because there are way more white people than black people in America.

!

If you read my other posts then you know I disagree with you on this statement, though in the past this was definitely true. As I posted elsewhere, the latest census shows that whites are decreasing in population due to not having as many children as other races are and within 20 years they will be the minority in the USA.
It's not a good or bad thing, it's just a fact.

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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

If you read my other posts then you know I disagree with you on this statement, though in the past this was definitely true. As I posted elsewhere, the latest census shows that whites are decreasing in population due to not having as many children as other races are and within 20 years they will be the minority in the USA.
It's not a good or bad thing, it's just a fact.

I read your post... you may be correct. But currently, the population of whites is still significantly higher than blacks.

So my assessment is fairly accurate.

US Census Press Releases

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Barry Davis

15 years ago

Originally Posted by marcanthony

And maybe, when you were growing up in the 60's you never heard that kind of talk at home. But, you know it took place in other homes... especially in the 60's.

There's no doubt about it. It still takes place in some homes today. But my experience with black people is that they (and this is a generalization) tend to think there are a whole lot more white people who are racist than what there really are. I have met a few, but very, very few, and I live in the heart of Kentucky. What is strange is that I ran across more of them up North when I lived in Minnesota.

My great-grandmother was a white supremacist and she definitely raised her white son(my grandfather) that way. In fact, when I was a little kid I was told that she never wanted to see me because I was nothing more than a nigger baby to her... no bid deal, I understand the times.

Well, I feel truly horrible about that. There's obviously nothing I can do to change the past, but there is no excuse for anyone to treat another human being like that, especially their own flesh and blood! I can also see how that kind of experience could make you put up your guard around white people. And the truth is, no matter what time in history a person lived, there is just no excuse for that type of behavior.

The real truth is that it would be very difficult to produce accurate stat ratios to compare anything between blacks and whites because there are way more white people than black people in America.

This is true, but I honestly don't think there are as many racists as we might think. The ones who are vocal (both white and black racists) draw a lot of attention, and I think their loud voice and ignorant actions draw so much attention that we think they are bigger than they are (at least I hope that is the case).

The original topic had to do with whether we were voting based on race. I can tell you with 100% honesty and 100% certainly that race is not an issue with me. If a black man or woman stood for the same principles/values that I do, I'd be more than glad to vote for that person. Obama happens to stand for a whole different set of principles/values than I do, and that is the reason I cannot vote for him.

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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Davis

There's no doubt about it. It still takes place in some homes today. But my experience with black people is that they (and this is a generalization) tend to think there are a whole lot more white people who are racist than what there really are. I have met a few, but very, very few, and I live in the heart of Kentucky. What is strange is that I ran across more of them up North when I lived in Minnesota.

Well, I feel truly horrible about that. There's obviously nothing I can do to change the past, but there is no excuse for anyone to treat another human being like that, especially their own flesh and blood! I can also see how that kind of experience could make you put up your guard around white people. And the truth is, no matter what time in history a person lived, there is just no excuse for that type of behavior.

This is true, but I honestly don't think there are as many racists as we might think. The ones who are vocal (both white and black racists) draw a lot of attention, and I think their loud voice and ignorant actions draw so much attention that we think they are bigger than they are (at least I hope that is the case).

The original topic had to do with whether we were voting based on race. I can tell you with 100% honesty and 100% certainly that race is not an issue with me. If a black man or woman stood for the same principles/values that I do, I'd be more than glad to vote for that person. Obama happens to stand for a whole different set of principles/values than I do, and that is the reason I cannot vote for him.

Thank you for your reply Barry. I agree with you man... I don't think that there are nearly as many racist people as many of us think.

Anyhow...

You seem to be a good guy. It's been a pleasure chatting with you.

Take care!