It's Amazing How Many People Here Don't Know When To Use "Is" Or "Are"

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Not that I want to be a grammar cop, because I'm not, but I find it amazing
the number of people at this forum (in the world for that matter) who don't
know when to use "is" and "are"

Is = singular
Are = plural.

Sophia Loren is a hot woman.

Sophia Loren is ONE person, singular, so we use is.

Raquel Welch and Sophia Loren are hot women.

Raquel and Sophia are two women, plural, so we use are.

Now, I know there are some oddballs like

Bacon and eggs is a good breakfast.

The reason we use is in this case is because bacon and eggs, as a
breakfast, is considered one thing.

But when I see stuff like "No Wonder NZ are so hard to beat" it drives
me crazy.

NZ (New Zealand) is not a plural. It is ONE country.

You don't say "The United States are a world power". You say "The
United States is a world power". It's one country.

Yeah, I know...I'm going to get a boat load of people telling me what a
so and so I am for posting this and how people don't care how they
write at a forum and yada, yada, yada, all the excuses. And I'm sure
not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

But for crying out loud, has our communication with the world reached
the point where many of us can't write above a 3rd grade level?

Anyway, give me your best shot.

I know it's coming.

(Crawling into bunker)
  • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
    I agree, and personally I have been working hard to eliminate this problem on a global level.

    Currently there is not a single poster from Antarctica here that is having this problem and I think my efforts is the reason why.

    ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

      I agree, and personally I have been working hard to eliminate this problem on a global level.

      Currently there is not a single poster from Antarctica here that is having this problem and I think my efforts is the reason why.

      ~Bill
      Okay, now you're just trying to confuse me, but shouldn't it be my efforts
      are the reasons why?


      Efforts is plural. So you have to have more than one reason and thus have
      to use are.

      But by all means, if there are any English experts out there who want to
      explain to me why Bill's sentence is correct, I'll dig up my third grade
      English teacher (literally) and tell her she taught me wrong.

      PS - Bill, you're a real wise ass, you know that?
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Okay, now you're just trying to confuse me, but shouldn't it be my efforts
        are the reasons why?

        Efforts is plural. So you have to have more than one reason and thus have
        to use are.

        But by all means, if there are any English experts out there who want to
        explain to me why Bill's sentence is correct, I'll dig up my third grade
        English teacher (literally) and tell her she taught me wrong.

        PS - Bill, you're a real wise ass, you know that?
        I agree. Bill really are a wise ass!

        (Steve...The worst part of this thread are all the bad "is/are" jokes that are coming.)
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          I agree. Bill really are a wise ass!

          (Steve...The worst part of this thread are all the bad "is/are" jokes that are coming.)
          Yeah Kurt...shoulda seen 'em cumin.
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        • Profile picture of the author tresfavian
          Steve, need to point out a mistake. Sophia Loren is a Hot Woman - Women is plural !! Probably just a typing mistake.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by tresfavian View Post

            Steve, need to point out a mistake. Sophia Loren is a Hot Woman - Women is plural !! Probably just a typing mistake.
            Thanks, I missed that. I hit the e instead of the a.

            I never was a good typist.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Okay, Steven. I wasn't going to get sucked in, but as it's Saturday on the OT forum - what the heck.

      There's no absolute 'correct' version in the example you're complaining about.

      It's true that in the phrase 'NZ are hard to beat', NZ should be singular (it's referring to a sports team, which is a collective noun) but the situation gets muddy when you substitute NZ for, say, The New York Giants (also, apparently, a sports team).

      The New York Giants is hard to beat. Hmm. Sounds a bit off.

      And it's the same thing with bands: Pink Floyd is great/are great? Using your logic, Pink Floyd refers to one band, so it should be 'is'. But then, what about The Beatles? Is or are?

      I guess the best answer is to use whatever sounds right to you and try to be consistent.

      As an aside, I'll lay a bet that you use the word 'none' as a plural, as in 'I asked for examples, but there were none". If you do, you'd be in the majority, but also technically incorrect. 'None is a contraction of 'not one' or 'no-one' and is singular.

      I'm only mentioning this because you started with the grammar coppery. :p


      Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        The New York Giants is hard to beat. Hmm. Sounds a bit off.
        Frank, your example here includes an "s" making the noun plural. So "are" would be the correct usage in your example and not "is".

        ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          Frank, your example here includes an "s" making the noun plural. So "are" would be the correct usage in your example and not "is".

          ~Bill
          Okay, so The New York Giants are a football team, but when you shorten the noun to New York (as in Steven's example), it becomes singular?


          Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            Okay, so The New York Giants are a football team, but when you shorten the noun to New York (as in Steven's example), it becomes singular?


            Frank
            Yes, it becomes singular.

            I never said English grammar made sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Steven,
    Check your PMs, but I have to tell you right now it has nothing to do with KJ and his Antartica efforts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Banned
    No- Thank you, Steven. I didn't realize I was doing that, and I'm clad you pointed it out.

    However, when people say: "No wonder New Zealand are so hard to beat" they're correct because collectively New Zealand are a team of players.

    I'm not an English teacher, however, I think it has something to do with the "context" as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by ZigZag View Post

      No- Thank you, Steven. I didn't realize I was doing that, and I'm clad you pointed it out.

      However, when people say: "New Zealand are so hard to beat" they're correct because collectively New Zealand are a team of players.

      I'm not an English teacher, however, I think it has something to do with the "context" as well.
      But it doesn't work that way, at least not where I grow up.

      Take for example the Pittsburgh Pirates, a baseball team in the US.

      If you use Pirates as the subject, you'd say, "The Pirates are a good team."

      However, if you use Pittsburgh as the subject, you'd say "Pittsburgh is
      a good team."

      Otherwise, every baseball announcer in this country needs to go back to
      school.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        But it doesn't work that way, at least not where I grow up.
        OK, time for another new thread...

        ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          OK, time for another new thread...

          ~Bill
          Yes, you're right. It should be not where I grew up.

          See, this disease is catching.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Let me go on record as saying that my grammar is NOT perfect. So what I
            try to do is write simply enough so that the chances of making mistakes are
            kept to a minimum.

            And usually, if I proofread my stuff, I can pick out where I screwed up.

            I'm willing to bet that most of these people wouldn't know bad grammar
            from a hole in the wall.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
              On a serious note, I rarely make a post that even after proofreading I don't go back and see a spelling mistake or two I made. So I almost never look at others mistakes in a bad light because of my own clay feet in this area.

              Unless the thread is about spelling/grammer to begin with...:p

              ~Bill
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

                On a serious note, I rarely make a post that even after proofreading I don't go back and see a spelling mistake or two I made. So I almost never look at others mistakes in a bad light because of my own clay feet in this area.

                Unless the thread is about spelling/grammer to begin with...:p

                ~Bill
                This is known as the "Kurt's Rule of Posting" and it states that no spelling or grammar mistakes can be noticed until the "post" button has been clicked.
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                • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  This is known as the "Kurt's Rule of Posting" and it states that no spelling or grammar mistakes can be noticed until the "post" button has been clicked.
                  Truer words were never spoken...or typed...or whatever correctly goes here...

                  ~Bill
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        Take for example the Pittsburgh Pirates, a baseball team in the US.

        If you use Pirates as the subject, you'd say, "The Pirates are a good team."
        Steve - "The Pirates is a good team" is correct, although it sounds funny as heck because we would usually think of Pirates (with an "s" at the end) as a plural. In this case it is not. It is a proper noun depicting ONE team. The team is a good team. The Pirates is a good team. All of the Pirates are good. Sometime right doesn't always sound it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Steve - "The Pirates is a good team" is correct, although it sounds funny as heck because we would usually think of Pirates (with an "s" at the end) as a plural. In this case it is not. It is a proper noun depicting ONE team. The team is a good team. The Pirates is a good team. All of the Pirates are good. Sometime right doesn't always sound it.
          Then every sportscaster in the US needs to go back to school.
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Then every sportscaster in the US needs to go back to school.
            You mean sportscasters actually went to school in the first place?
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

              You mean sportscasters actually went to school in the first place?

              No, I'm serious. I mean listen to any game when they talk about the team.

              "The Mets are in San Diego tomorrow"

              Keith Hernandez doesn't say the Mets is in San Diego tomorrow.

              Nobody does.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Here are some more.

                The Mets are in first place

                The Mets are on a two game losing streak

                The Mets are scheduled to fly to fly to Florida today at 3 PM

                The Mets are the only team to never pitch a no hitter.

                Are you telling me ALL these are wrong?

                I find that extremely hard to believe.
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                • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  The Mets are scheduled to fly to fly to Florida today at 3 PM.
                  Well, there's an obvious flaw in the above sentence. Can you spot it?

                  That's right...

                  They're scheduled to fly at 4 PM.



                  ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Here is another gross abuse of "are"!

    All your base are belong to us.

    Flash Movie: All Your Base are Belong to Us
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Perry
    Don't you find that you're being naive to the fact that there are so many people here from other countries that don't use English as their first language?

    Yes, it is quite annoying at times to try to decipher what people are trying to say, but they are giving it their best effort. For that reason, I usually don't use a foreigner for article writing, but I do appreciate their IM knowledge.

    Thanks,

    Kevin
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    You is really bitching over this?...

    Is you crazy?... or just lacking in a social life?.... are place is not to question why!

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    Bare Murkage.........

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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Not that I want to be a grammar cop,
    Well don't start threads about Grammar cop type subjects, then

    I is well bored of this shizz...
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    Bare Murkage.........

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post


      I is well bored of this shizz...
      As I's new u wood bee. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Banned
        I thought this was going to be a good thread about grammar, but it's just Steven playing "Silly Buger."

        (Heh ..)
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeVincent
    The unfortunate side-result of an internet based universe is that people who never had any business writing are now communicating via the written word.
    The "is/are" thing...
    The poor spelling of easy words...for instance, two 'o's in "Loser".
    And of course, the whole abbreviation abberation of 'u' for 'you', 'r' for 'are', etc...as if typing a three letter word is SO difficult.

    Fun topic.
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  • Profile picture of the author shahrulfaizi
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Not that I want to be a grammar cop, because I'm not, but I find it amazing
    the number of people at this forum (in the world for that matter) who don't
    know when to use "is" and "are"

    Is = singular
    Are = plural.

    Sophia Loren is a hot woman.

    Sophia Loren is ONE person, singular, so we use is.

    Raquel Welch and Sophia Loren are hot women.

    Raquel and Sophia are two women, plural, so we use are.

    Now, I know there are some oddballs like

    Bacon and eggs is a good breakfast.

    The reason we use is in this case is because bacon and eggs, as a
    breakfast, is considered one thing.

    But when I see stuff like "No Wonder NZ are so hard to beat" it drives
    me crazy.

    NZ (New Zealand) is not a plural. It is ONE country.

    You don't say "The United States are a world power". You say "The
    United States is a world power". It's one country.

    Yeah, I know...I'm going to get a boat load of people telling me what a
    so and so I am for posting this and how people don't care how they
    write at a forum and yada, yada, yada, all the excuses. And I'm sure
    not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

    But for crying out loud, has our communication with the world reached
    the point where many of us can't write above a 3rd grade level?

    Anyway, give me your best shot.

    I know it's coming.

    (Crawling into bunker)
    Wow.. thanks for the tips.. I'm new here.. I want try to speak English.. If my writing in this forum not correct. Please tell me..
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by article_ghostwriter View Post

      After 30 replies, no one has cottoned on to the main reason for this discrepancy - namely, British English and American English have different rules for some plurals and singulars.

      "The difference occurs for all nouns of multitude, both general terms such as team and company and proper nouns (for example, where a place name is used to refer to a sports team). For instance:
      BrE: The Clash are a well-known band; AmE: The Clash is a well-known band.
      BrE: Spain are the champions; AmE: Spain is the champion."

      Many believe that the Queen's English is the correct version.
      And that's fine. I have no problem with that. But when people obviously
      have no idea when to use what (admittedly mostly non English speaking
      people) it drives me nuts.

      How do you expect to communicate effectively in your business if your
      grammar is so awful that it gives prospects the impression (right or wrong)
      that maybe you're not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree.

      Like it or not, impressions matter. And if you give people the impression
      that you can't communicate at an 8th grade level, at minimum, how much
      money are you going to make with your business unless you simply have
      others do all the work (especially the writing) for you?
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by article_ghostwriter View Post


      Many believe that the Queen's English is the correct version.
      Especially the English

      Personally, I don't never give much thought to grammar correctness...

      Unless I need to.

      Which, when working for myself - from home - are hardly never.

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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by article_ghostwriter View Post

      Many believe that the Queen's English is the correct version.
      What she said.

      And incidentally, while I'm here, we don't say "the Queen's English" because there is no King. The King's English is French.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    LOL

    This are the funniest post I read in a while. Almost made me loose my my lunch!

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

      LOL

      This are the funniest post I read in a while. Almost made me loose my my lunch!


      Ha, ha...another wise ass heard from.

      What is it with you New Yorkers anyway?
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Ha, ha...another wise ass heard from.

        What is it with you New Yorkers anyway?
        Don't get too excited... I am a native of New Joisey
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Add "would of" and "could of" to the list.
    I'm so glad someone else is as p1ssed off with that one as I am (or should that be I is ).

    Add "should of" to the list as well.



    That's it, rant over.

    Carry on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pauline60
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Add "would of" and "could of" to the list.

    Those phrases are not flagged by spellcheckers.
    Oh yes, 'would of' and 'could of'...I am always correcting my kids on that one. Their reply is always ' yeah Mam, whatever'.
    Actually the misuse of apostrophes is my pet hate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I could of pointed out all of the mistakes you made, but I won't so don't aks me too, don't tell me their aren't no options, ect. ect.

    ~M~
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    My personal 'favorite' is "brought" instead of "bought"...

    "Yo Dude! Check out the new car I just brought!"

    "My husband took me to the jewelry store and brought me these earrings..."

    "Hey man - those are my cigarettes! I just brought them at the gas station!"

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It's a tough call on the "the Mets" are. It sounds correct, doesn't it?
    "The Mets" is a team. In the sentence "The Mets are in town, however - Mets can go either way.

    "They ARE in town today"
    Or
    "The team IS in town today"

    Both are correct. In the sentence "The Mets are in town today", are they being named collectively, or is the team being announced singularly?
    If you want to be extremely correct about this usage, either way could be considered correct and "are" will be used because it will sound more aesthetically comfortable in that case. I always just figure that people are speaking of the individuals on the team collectively (all of, they) when "are" is used instead of the team being spoken of as one entity.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Who is you talking about?
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    I

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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I don't give a rip about which is "correct", I will continue to say "The Pirates are a baseball team", and will also continue to think "The Pirates is a good team" sounds dumb. Correct or not.

    The broadcasters don't need to go back to school, the people who can't get over it need to give them a break.

    But, I don't think that's what Steve is relly talking about in the OP. I can almost guarantee NOBODY here gets their grammar right all of the time. In fact, I would go so far as to say nobody even knows all of the rules of grammar.

    Just do your best to get the basics right.

    If you are a non-native English speaker then I give you credit for writing our complicated language the best you can. Is and are can be more complicated than we may at first think, as the ensuing discussion has so aptly demonstrated.

    The idea that a group of individuals, when referred to as a single unit requires the use of the singular is not always true.

    What if you are referring to the collective form of you as a single group of people?

    You is going to the store.

    Okay, you could argue that the proper pronoun for the plural collective is they.

    They is going to the store.

    Nope, in both cases replacing the word is with are makes the sentence correct. So, extend that to the example of the Pirates as a team and ask which pronoun you would replace the team name with, that will help you choose the better form of the verb.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      I don't give a rip about which is "correct", I will continue to say "The Pirates are a baseball team", and will also continue to think "The Pirates is a good team" sounds dumb. Correct or not.

      I agree, it sounds really dumb. Have you seen the Pirates play this year?
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        I agree, it sounds really dumb. Have you seen the Pirates play this year?
        LOL

        Nice try, Kurt!



        That's why I used the generic Pirates as opposed to the more specific Pittsburgh Pirates.

        ~M~
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well this is fun. Now lets discuss the hypothetical "were" in sentences such as "If I were Queen".
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      What if you are referring to the collective form of you as a single group of people?
      The answer is y'all (I are in the South).

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author bugbuguk
    Are you sure this is what you really mean?
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  • I just wanted to say that, as a former language teacher, I've really enjoyed reading through this thread. Although this is mostly because it's been fun to watch you all bickering with each other!

    There's just one point I'd like to add to the discussion. I think people usually type their posts really quickly - often whilst focusing on other tasks, such as listening to music, writing emails or ousting the cat from on top of the computer speaker - that it's no surprise that so many typographical/grammatical errors creep into their text.


    Andrea, The English Webmistress
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    The-English-Webmistress is really Andrea, who went backpacking the world, accidentally landed in Panama, Central America, and never left. (Beaches! Mountains! Hot latin music! Piña Coladas!) She doesn't miss the London commute AT ALL...
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