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The govt says oil crisis is over - BP is happy to go along with that.

Today, fishermen found 2 square miles in the gulf littered with dead fish. Crabs were found coated with oil. The official line is "we don't know oil killed them" - but that was line until the media published pictures of oil coated birds, turtles and dolphins, too.

We're told "they may test the dead fish". Gee, think that would be a good idea? Let me guess - the results will be "inconclusive".

Two boats lowered booms to the Gulf floor and dragged them a short distance - when they pulled up the booms they were coated with oil.

Many fishermen here say the seafood is not safe and they won't eat it themselves or feed it to their families. Two barrier islands continue to have more oil washing into the shore and marsh there.

Daily 3000-6000 lbs of oil are still being removed from Cat Island.

The initial excitement over capping the well and getting back to normal is now being replaced locally with questions. Thad Allen mentions "wrapping it up" - the boats that were hired to find oil floating in the gulf have been told the job is over next week. There is an attitude of "we got the job done" from govt spokesmen that doesn't seem to recognize the job isn't done yet.

Maybe we should draw straws to see who is telling the truth?

kay
  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
    My first thought reading that is this.
    You find your wife in bed with your best friend.
    Who do you trust?
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  • Profile picture of the author blalock61
    Let me ask this: Do the words trust and government belong in the same sentence?
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by blalock61 View Post

      Let me ask this: Do the words trust and government belong in the same sentence?
      Second question - do the words trust and multi-billion dollar corporation belong in the same sentence.

      My choice -- as far as I'm concerned from knowing BP's past and what the present plans for the Gov and BP were just before the drill, I would say they all need to be sent out with boats and kept offshore until they clean that place up -- even if they have to drink it clean.

      Anyone STILL wondering why I said to boycott? Anyone still fooled that BP will be springing for this disaster? Kill that company.
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    • Profile picture of the author AjaTrinidad
      Originally Posted by blalock61 View Post

      Let me ask this: Do the words trust and government belong in the same sentence?
      Noooooooo!
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Who do *I* trust? No one, and neither should you..........
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    • Profile picture of the author Katharin
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Who do *I* trust? No one, and neither should you..........
      I trust myself first and foremost. After that, my parents and a family member or two and that's as far as the list goes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Casmer
    Hi,

    Probably not Always take everything you hear on media and from the government with a grain of salt...a small one..LOL

    Take care
    Jeff Casmer
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  • Profile picture of the author mevilmatt
    yep, i have a feeling that this is gonna take awhile to fix this massive screwup.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    I trust Kay.


    Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Hmmm... Goverment, Big Business....

    I'll bite. Which one?

    To me they are the opposite sides of the same coin.

    I mentioned this in another thread, but from what I have read recently, the Exxon spill still isn't "clean" after 20 years. Why would ANYone believe this one was after, what, 3 months???

    Common sense dictates that we bend over and grab ankles cause we're all gettin' screwed.

    Not to make this "political", but with mid terms coming, this doesn't surprise me in the least. Lets make things all rosey bright until after elections
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    WHO CARES whether the oil killed them or not? It is a PROVEN FACT that oil and various by products FAR less noxious than those found in crude oil are DANGEROUS to fish and at least harmful to humans. I, and I am sure many, will want to STAY AWAY from fish in the region for quite some time.

    SO, if there is even a SPECK of residue on the fish, they should be considered TAINTED! BP is STILL guilty, etc.

    HECK, if you shoot a person, and they die, you are generally treated as if you killed them EVEN if they might have lived if the bullet were the only real problem.

    BTW I generally trust the "government" to do what they feel is in THEIR IMMEDIATE interest, and to take as much time off as possible. Should they feel the need to do something, they will generally do what they feel is in the best IMMEDIATE interest of their biggest supporters.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        [QUOTE=Alexa Smith;2440883]"Guilty" is quite a strong word: I prefer "responsible", myself (I don't think anyone's suggesting they did it deliberately, are they?)

        I see some US politicians are still calling the company "British Petroleum" in spite of it not having been called that for a decade, being incorporated in the US, and having twice as many American employees as British ... always convenient to have something "foreign" to blame, I suppose.[/QUOTE]

        Yeah, those conniving, ba$tard Americans!

        I agree with Kim - They were British Petroleum since my childhood. Sometimes I still call Exxon Esso, even though they changed that here DECADES ago.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        "Guilty" is quite a strong word: I prefer "responsible", myself (I don't think anyone's suggesting they did it deliberately, are they?)

        I see some US politicians are still calling the company "British Petroleum" in spite of it not having been called that for a decade, being incorporated in the US, and having twice as many American employees as British ... always convenient to have something "foreign" to blame, I suppose.
        "Responsible" is a nice euphemism. "Negligent" would be more accurate, based on BP's history and the facts of the incident as we know them now.

        I'd hate to be around you when I slip and call KFC "Kentucky Fried Chicken"...They changed their name two decades ago.

        When someone says "British Petroleum", not a single American thinks of your country. Not a single one. We think of BP as a company. Just like if I get a bone stuck in my throat from a piece of chicken I don't blame the people of Kentucky. So get over it, you're worrying about something that doesn't exist.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        "Guilty" is quite a strong word: I prefer "responsible", myself (I don't think anyone's suggesting they did it deliberately, are they?)

        I see some US politicians are still calling the company "British Petroleum" in spite of it not having been called that for a decade, being incorporated in the US, and having twice as many American employees as British ... always convenient to have something "foreign" to blame, I suppose.
        We have PLENTY of domestic things to blame. Kimw is RIGHT. When I saw BP signs, the name BRITISH PETROLEUM came to mind. That was LONG before the disaster. In fact, it was about 9 YEARS ago.

        We shouldn't be surprised at their action though. I said at the beginning that there is a kind of subliminal conspiracy. It has affected EVERYONE here, and even *I* have slipped up. There was NO spill in the gulf recently!!!!! They didn't spill even one drop really! It was a GUSHER!!!!!!! AND, until they stopped the gusher, they hadn't really started cleanup, it was merely mitigation. Their use of terms like spill and cleanup made it sound FAR smaller than it ever was. If you spill a gallon, you can CLEANUP the gallon, and you are DONE! If you have a gusher that puts out 1 gallon a minute, and it takes 10 minutes to clean up, you have to cleanup 10 gallons a minute just to break even. Stop for 1 minute, and you are back to where you were!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          We have PLENTY of domestic things to blame. Kimw is RIGHT. When I saw BP signs, the name BRITISH PETROLEUM came to mind. That was LONG before the disaster. In fact, it was about 9 YEARS ago.

          Steve
          Yes, I think someone alluded to the power of branding, earlier.

          Besides, BP does stand for British Petroleum. So why shouldn't
          people say it?

          Others need to do some more reading about the places they live
          after they finish polishing their glass houses.


          Ken
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          • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
            Don't believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
            Don't believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
            Don't believe in anything simply because it is found written in your books.
            Don't believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

            But after observation and analysis when you find that anything agrees with
            reason then accept it and live up to it.
            --Siddhartha (Buddha)

            Trust no one, believe nothing until you've experienced it your self.
            --Siddhartha (Buddha)

            In another thread on old computers, the subject of Bletchley Park and the Enigma encryption device was briefly touched upon. What is less known is that after the war, the United States and Britain proceeded to sell the "unbreakable" Enigma device to all of their ALLIES.

            It wasn't until 1977 that it was revealed that Britain had first broken Enigma in the early fourties and with American help defeated the four wheel versions, all before 1944.

            In effect, the US and British governments directly lied to their allies and were reading all of their most sensitive communications for THIRTY YEARS.

            It is reasonable to believe that the expression "Blithering Idiot" was coined to describe those with unflagging trust in government.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

            Yes, I think someone alluded to the power of branding, earlier.

            Besides, BP does stand for British Petroleum. So why shouldn't
            people say it?

            Others need to do some more reading about the places they live
            after they finish polishing their glass houses.


            Ken
            Well, the original message was to me on something I said, so I wanted to respond anyway, but I responded before I saw the other resposes.

            Frankly, I hold NO ill will to Great Britain for ANYTHING! Granted it is possible that one of their descendants might have killed or hurt one of mine in some far off war, but why would I hold anyone now responsible for that. At this point, they are considered an ALLY.

            If BP meant bicycle partsmaker, I would have said that.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Back to seafood testing - it seems there are only four labs in the country equipped to test for oil residue/contamination in fish.

              "Solution" (yes, it belongs in quotes:p)....the FDA is holding classes to train fishermen to do the "smell test" to make sure the fish they are catching is OK.

              Looks like "smells like fish" is good enough. :rolleyes:
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Back to seafood testing - it seems there are only four labs in the country equipped to test for oil residue/contamination in fish.

                "Solution" (yes, it belongs in quotes:p)....the FDA is holding classes to train fishermen to do the "smell test" to make sure the fish they are catching is OK.

                Looks like "smells like fish" is good enough. :rolleyes:
                When they can find a person that can smell cocain encased in plastic from across an airport, and do so better than a dog, and train them to identify all the 100s of elements in oil, and NEVER tire or have reduced ability or get bored, I might THINK about it.

                BTW fish is NOT supposed to smell "fishy".

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
                  Trust?
                  Trust should be earned. When did any large corp earn our trust?
                  Enough said.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Kay,

    Some information about the oil spill is not out YET. We know it. They are trying to manage the information provided to the public. Media sources act like they always do...

    BUT...

    People talk about how huge could be the methane box BELLOW the spill site... some people talk about ANOTHER spill, bigger, cracking the sea floor near the spill site... Some people talk about the gulf current being shut down...

    You know, if this goes bad, the whole world could be in BIG trouble.

    This is not a "trust" issue anymore.

    P.S.: Don't forget the COREXIT problems for decades...
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    "always convenient to have something "foreign" to blame, I suppose. "

    Instead , how about they did a great job of branding.
    They will ALWAYS be British Petroleum AND/OR BP to me. Has nothing to do with them being "foreign". That's what they were for the majority of my life.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jayme43
    I do trust my husband. . .
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Kay, here's what National Geographic says about how much oil has been removed from the Gulf.
      Much Gulf Oil Remains, Deeply Hidden and Under Beaches
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    "Guilty" is quite a strong word: I prefer "responsible", myself (I don't think anyone's suggesting they did it deliberately, are they?)
    "Responsible" is a nice euphemism. "Negligent" would be more accurate, based on BP's history and the facts of the incident as we know them now.
    "Negligent" is only a good start. Alexa, "guilty" is the RIGHT word. This company has caused 5 major spills and explosions before this one - Due to negligence. The company knew that something was going badly wrong and there are eye-witness survivors that will tell you that. They insisted on continuing when they should have stopped and fixed things. When you are purposely cutting corners - being told that something is wrong, and STILL neglect to fix the problems - "Guilty" is the perfect word. On top of this crap they are running a concentration camp of a med center and nobody can get to the sick workers to find out how bad they are or exactly what is going on. It seems that those on the coast NEED to know this. They take pictures and photoshop them for us - and take cameras from others and have them jailed as if they own the whole damn ocean and shoreline.

    They are not only GUILTY -- they are acting as if they OWN us, our South Central border, the people the work for them, and our government. Frankly, I think they should be shut down right now before they can do any more damage. They are planning a very "technologically different" drill in Alaska, too -- Scores of immediate deaths in explosions, spills that are ruining many areas of the Environment, secrecy the equivalent of only the most fascist of societies -- Shirking on payments to victims, They stabbed the US in the back when they took over the last Alaska drill and started selling our oil to other countries, yet you are hesitant to call them guilty. This company ranks right up there with Monsanto for guilt.
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    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Thom - Thanks for that link. At least I'm not alone in thinking this is a "mission accomplished" charade.

      At least someone seems to have settled on an "amount leaked" - spokesperson on CNN (fm gvt agency) said 205 million gallons last week.
      And the artile says the same in 'barrels'. That's a first !

      I would love to believe it's over - but my gut tells me you don't go from environmental catastrophe to all clear in 2-3 weeks which is what we are asked to believe.

      Guess we'll see, won't we?
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Kay - Valdez was a smaller spill - 20 years and it's not cleaned up yet. No, you don't get to clean in 2 or 3 weeks.

    Did you notice that the people reporting on CNN are largely on the Journolist? Don't even bother with listening to someone on the Journolist. They report directly to the WH for orders on what to publish and/or air. You are not getting "news" you are receiving propaganda - and it's not even the good propaganda -- it's cut rate, sleezy, and very transparent -- about the same as their work in the gulf was. Why the public has been so conned that they even consider this crap is another issue. But you are not getting "news" from either side of the issue. People attempting to get real "news" are being arrested.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Does this surprise anyone? Just like all similar events that focus
    the world's spotlight, and then the voracious media starts digging,
    the door can't be slammed fast enough.

    Alexa... like others said, they do not deserve euphemisms or any
    pleasantries. Guilty is letting them all off pretty nicely. Much too
    generous.

    Blame-shifting, deflection, subtle implications... that's probably
    learned in the second semester of Pol101. Nothing to do with
    ethnocentrism, either. They all do it.


    Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    "At least I'm not alone in thinking this is a "mission accomplished" charade."

    Kay,
    You are definitely not alone.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      I always liked that bumper sticker "Question Authority"

      As a whole I don't trust the government, local or national. I don't trust the media overall either. I especially don't trust BP and 'guilty" is the right word to descibe them in my opinion also.

      However, I can't really compare the fed governments news conference the other day with the pie chart to the Mission Accomplished deal in 2003. The differences are huge. After that Mission Accomplished message happened about 3,000 Americans died, tens of thousands others were injured, hundreds of billions were spent, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed and are still being killed and millions were displaced.

      Yeah, the admin perhaps said things in an overly optimistic way but they didn't really say the crisis was over either. NOAA Director Jane Lubchenco said at that White House briefing "No one is saying it's not a threat anymore. Diluted and out of sight doesn't necessarily mean benign."

      and "I think the common view of most of the scientists inside and outside government is that the effects of this spill will likely linger for decades. The fact that so much of the oil has been removed and in the process of being degraded is very significant and means that the impact will not be even worse than it might have been. But the oil that was released and has already impacted wildlife at the surface, young juvenile stages and eggs beneath the surface, will likely have very considerable impacts for years and possibly decades to come."

      Lubchenco also said that dissolved oil (like "sugar into your coffee or your teacup") is not necessarily less dangerous than dispersed oil ("broken up from large chunks into smaller chunks").

      I think one of the things that the government was also saying was that some of the original guesses that the oil might reach all the way up to the East coast are not going to happen. So, there is a sense of relief in a way.

      I don't think I've heard anyone say the cleanup work is over though. The oil on the surface in the gulf just isn't there like it was. I read something last week saying there were hundreds of skimmers working one day and only one barrel of oil was skimmed. So, of course these skimmers don't seem to be needed now.

      One more point, isn't it perhaps a good thing to be optimistic about this for the sake of the local tourist industry? From what I understand the local tourist business has been devastated by the crisis.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andie
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      "At least I'm not alone in thinking this is a "mission accomplished" charade."

      Kay,
      You are definitely not alone.



      Most definitely not alone.

      The 'world' is already in trouble..........and it is all about the oil.
      Far too few people in our world understand that.
      I'd take a shot at saying if you asked any young adult/recent grad. what their plan is for us when the oil runs out; they'd look at you like you were whacko, jump in their Hummer and send a text on their phone about the crazy ole fart they just ran across that thinks the world is coming to an end.

      *sigh*
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        August 12:
        No recoverable oil has been reported by daily overflights since July 30. Daily satellite analyses have indicated a decreasing number of possible oil anomalies since the
        well has been capped. Recent overflights sent to investigate satellite anomalies have only reported seeing seaweed with an occasional colorless sheen.

        We do not expect any recoverable DWH oil to appear in the offshore environment. However, observations will continue into the foreseeable future. If the need arises,
        surface oil trajectories will be produced again. Periods of onshore winds may result in some scattered tarball impacts for the next few weeks to months.
        Florida Releases August 12, 2010 Gulf Oil Spill Situation Update | Gov Monitor
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Those articles would be more comforting if they said no oil instead of no recoverable oil.
          This kinda bothers me also.
          Oil-water mix recovered: over 34.7 million gallons. Dispersant: more than 1.84 million gallons deployed.
          For the amount of oil that spilled into the gulf that sounds like a low number.
          Also how much is oil and how much is water.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Lawrence... yes, I've read about the Enigma. Quite nasty what was done with it
    by us.

    (I rented and watched, Fargo, last night. Dontcha know.)


    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      (I rented and watched, Fargo, last night. Dontcha know.)
      Ken
      I trust Marge. Dontcha know.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Hold the straws, Kay!

    This is who I trust:

    "Today, fishermen found 2 square miles in the gulf littered with dead fish. Crabs were found coated with oil."

    "- but that was line until the media published pictures of oil coated birds, turtles and dolphins, too."

    "Two boats lowered booms to the Gulf floor and dragged them a short distance - when they pulled up the booms they were coated with oil."



    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    The govt says oil crisis is over - BP is happy to go along with that.

    Today, fishermen found 2 square miles in the gulf littered with dead fish. Crabs were found coated with oil. The official line is "we don't know oil killed them" - but that was line until the media published pictures of oil coated birds, turtles and dolphins, too.

    We're told "they may test the dead fish". Gee, think that would be a good idea? Let me guess - the results will be "inconclusive".

    Two boats lowered booms to the Gulf floor and dragged them a short distance - when they pulled up the booms they were coated with oil.

    Many fishermen here say the seafood is not safe and they won't eat it themselves or feed it to their families. Two barrier islands continue to have more oil washing into the shore and marsh there.

    Daily 3000-6000 lbs of oil are still being removed from Cat Island.

    The initial excitement over capping the well and getting back to normal is now being replaced locally with questions. Thad Allen mentions "wrapping it up" - the boats that were hired to find oil floating in the gulf have been told the job is over next week. There is an attitude of "we got the job done" from govt spokesmen that doesn't seem to recognize the job isn't done yet.

    Maybe we should draw straws to see who is telling the truth?

    kay
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Steve said:"BTW fish is NOT supposed to smell "fishy".

    And he is 100% correct.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      BTW fish is NOT supposed to smell "fishy"
      You're right, Steve - fresh fish doesn't smell fishy....but the boats that bring it in day after day often do

      There are a couple oyster processing places in Biloxi - and you hold your breath when you drive by them!
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      Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author antiquenh
    It takes months for the sea to recuperate from that oil spill accident. The government must take necessary action with this matter!
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  • Profile picture of the author chuwie25
    i only trust my daughter because she is my bestfriend =)
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Update From the Gulf:

      10 days ago when the official word from both govt and BP was "oil is almost gone" - satellite views showed 1200 square miles of oil slick and flyovers confirmed it.

      Local fishing community is highly skeptical of the "sniff test" and organizations are forming to demand testing...

      t r u t h o u t | Gulf Coast Fishermen Challenge US Government Over Dispersants

      Meanwhile, the "cash only" businesses run along the coast for years are now getting attention. Income wasn't delcared for tax purposes so that's going to cause a problem with the BP fund dispersal.

      Cash Business In Gulf Makes Compensation Difficult : NPR

      Feinberg mentioned the possibility of a tax amnesty but after mentioning it said he couldn't grant such a thing. Will be interesting to see how that is handled.

      Most interesting news - the New Orleans news station announced tonight there was a govt program in the works run through the agriculture dept that would pay fishermen on the gulf $12k each....can't find reference to it online but the news story said it was just announced so who knows?

      I don't see any reason the fed govt would be paying $360 million in addition to the payouts due from the BP fund so will be looking for more on this one. I hope the news report was wrong.

      kay
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      Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.
      January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.
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  • Profile picture of the author sarahberra
    That's crazy. I still can't believe this happened. I know you said it can take months for sea life to recover, but the extent of the damage can actually take years for the enviroment as a whole to recover.
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  • Profile picture of the author xtrecoolx
    I definitely trust BP more than many internet marketers :-)
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