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We have the right to refuse service....

by KimW
15 replies
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I was on FB the other night and saw that my brother in law had "liked" a page advocating boycotting a restaraunt/bar.
I went to the page to see what it was about and it seems this place had exercised its right to refuse service to any one and has asked someone to leave strictly because the person was a policeman.
Therefore someone had started a FB page to boycott the place.
My brother in law is an ex police officer, so I was surprised to see he had "liked" the page. In my mind, how can you spend most of your life standing for the laws and rights of the citizens of this country,then advocate boycotting a place for actually using their right?
Let me state that I don't know the full circumstances so I don't know why they asked the police officer to leave, they only information I have is what I got off the Facebook page.
I firmly believe that any business has the right to refuse to serve someone if they so desire.
  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
    That's a tough one Kim.
    I agree businesses have the right to refuse service and they should.
    But I think (without looking it to it) that there are qualifiers.
    For example you can't refuse service based on color or religion.
    I would think occupation would be in there also.
    On the other hand you can refuse service if say the person is a known trouble maker or in any way could be disruptive to the business.

    If they refused service simply because he was a police officer, that's wrong.
    Not to mention stupid.
    If on the other hand the guy was a jerk and p.i.t.a. I'd ask him to leave myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Kimw,

    I heard today that a mall in california has thrown out(actually sent to jail!) a person because he was "witnessing" to people in the mall. OK you say, that is their right, etc... OK, but you haven't heard the TWIST!

    They didn't do that because he "witnessed". They did it because he SPOKE! They have a crazy rule that you can't speak to ANYONE unless it is someone you know, asking where the restroom is, or mall business, unless you have written permission from the mall.

    CA Appeals Court Rules Shopping Mall Cannot Infringe On Free Speech Of Customers | GantDaily.com

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Kim -

      I have a simple rule for "causes" - I don't participate in them. I don't sign petitions online or add my name to any group of "we are against this" or even "we are for this".

      I wish more people would do the same because causes like that are often based on incorrect info or one side of the story.

      kay

      Here's what I found:

      Langley said that the uniformed cop may have made some of his customers feel uncomfortable, particularly homeless people and activists who may have been targets of police harassment in the past.

      Langley also said he welcomes police in street clothes - it was the uniform that made his customers uneasy.

      Business has increased - but he's had 5 threats of arson or violence. That's what happens when a business decision becomes propaganda.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Kim -

        I have a simple rule for "causes" - I don't participate in them. I don't sign petitions online or add my name to any group of "we are against this" or even "we are for this".

        I wish more people would do the same because causes like that are often based on incorrect info or one side of the story.

        kay

        Here's what I found:

        Langley said that the uniformed cop may have made some of his customers feel uncomfortable, particularly homeless people and activists who may have been targets of police harassment in the past.

        Langley also said he welcomes police in street clothes - it was the uniform that made his customers uneasy.

        Business has increased - but he's had 5 threats of arson or violence. That's what happens when a business decision becomes propaganda.
        As sad as that is, it still made me laugh.
        To me it says 5 people who support law enforcement think it's a good idea to break a law to show that support:confused:
        If all that's true, unless Langley also feels uncomfortable with uniformed police, I got to imagine that would be a tough decission to make no matter what you decide.

        I follow a few 'causes' on FB.
        Even with the pro Cannabis causes I follow, it's more to get a pulse of what's happening then to be involved with them.
        As for petitions, I've signed a few.
        But I also research the group and read the petition first, I never take anybodies word on what it says.
        If you show up to my house with a 4 page long petition and it sounds good, expect to stay awhile. I'm going to read every word and you're going through an interview.
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    • Profile picture of the author KimW
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Kimw,

      I heard today that a mall in california has thrown out(actually sent to jail!) a person because he was "witnessing" to people in the mall. OK you say, that is their right, etc... OK, but you haven't heard the TWIST!

      They didn't do that because he "witnessed". They did it because he SPOKE! They have a crazy rule that you can't speak to ANYONE unless it is someone you know, asking where the restroom is, or mall business, unless you have written permission from the mall.

      CA Appeals Court Rules Shopping Mall Cannot Infringe On Free Speech Of Customers | GantDaily.com

      Steve
      Steve, If you hadn't had linked to it I would have thought you were jerking my chain.
      My God its sad what this country has come to.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by KimW View Post

        Steve, If you hadn't had linked to it I would have thought you were jerking my chain.
        My God its sad what this country has come to.
        Yeah, I heard about it on the radio, and tried to look it up on the internet, so I'm sure there are plenty more sites. Theses days, some TRUE things sound wierder than any fiction one can dream up. HECK YEAH, I found THOUSANDS, now that I had details:

        http://www.bizjournals.com/sacrament...9/daily68.html

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Exactly Thom, I know there isn't enough information to make an informed decision,which I guess is why I am confused as to why so many people,and people like my brother in law,who would "like" a page based on such skimpy information.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Originally Posted by KimW View Post

    I was on FB the other night and saw that my brother in law had "liked" a page advocating boycotting a restaraunt/bar.
    I went to the page to see what it was about and it seems this place had exercised its right to refuse service to any one and has asked someone to leave strictly because the person was a policeman.
    Therefore someone had started a FB page to boycott the place.
    My brother in law is an ex police officer, so I was surprised to see he had "liked" the page. In my mind, how can you spend most of your life standing for the laws and rights of the citizens of this country,then advocate boycotting a place for actually using their right?
    Let me state that I don't know the full circumstances so I don't know why they asked the police officer to leave, they only information I have is what I got off the Facebook page.
    I firmly believe that any business has the right to refuse to serve someone if they so desire.

    The business can not refuse service because of...

    - race
    - color
    - religion
    - age
    - sex
    - national origin

    Throughout the United States or they're breaking the law.

    These are the protected classes of Americans.

    I didn't see anything about occupation so I guess they can discriminate against policemen if they want to.


    TL

    Ps. Here's a bunch of other protected classes. ( in certain situations )


    # Familial status (Housing, cannot discriminate for having children, exception for senior housing)

    # Sexual orientation (in some jurisdictions and not in others)

    # Gender identity (in some jurisdictions and not in others)

    # Disability status - Federal: Vocational Rehabilitation and Other Rehabilitation Services of 1973 & Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990

    # Veteran status - Federal Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974

    # Genetic information - Federal: Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act

    From wikipedia.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    TL,
    No offense but I know the law.
    But just to be devils advocate, was he a black policeman?
    Was he a Jewish policeman?
    Was he an old policeman?
    Was SHE a female policewoman?

    Which gets back to the point of not enough information.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      TL,
      No offense but I know the law.
      But just to be devils advocate, was he a black policeman?
      Was he a Jewish policeman?
      Was he an old policeman?
      Was SHE a female policewoman?

      Which gets back to the point of not enough information.
      Which begs the question....

      If they discriminate against policemen, and the first one happens to be black, do you condemn them for racism, EVEN though they would have discriminated against a white?

      And we don't know what type of store it was, or the area. Policemen might make them uncomfortable and hurt business. You NEVER know.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        [QUOTE=seasoned;2487811]Which begs the question....

        If they discriminate against policemen, and the first one happens to be black, do you condemn them for racism, EVEN though they would have discriminated against a white?

        And we don't know what type of store it was, or the area. Policemen might make them uncomfortable and hurt business. You NEVER know.

        Steve[/QUOTE

        copied from above...

        If they discriminate against policemen, and the first one happens to be black, do you condemn them for racism, EVEN though they would have discriminated against a white?

        I say...

        Why would someone condemn anyone for racism in this case when the discrimination is clearly against policemen - no matter what their color???

        Anyone that does charge racism in this situation, would be acting like a real ahole in my opinion.

        TL
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Since I raised the question I thought I would get more information .
    Boycott the Red and Black Cafe, Portland OR | Facebook

    Where?s a Portland Police officer to get a cup of coffee | Cornelia Becker Seigneur~ Author.Speaker.Teacher

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._portland.html
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Actually I have mostly been a "cause-less" person who believes in live and let live for most of my life, but in light of my fairly recent illness and the help I have received I do support a couple. The American Kidney Fund has paid my insurance premium for the past couple of years.Without them I would be in a much worse finacial situation than I am. And there are a couple of others. I am grateful for the help unlooked for that I get.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Actually I have mostly been a "cause-less" person who believes in live and let live for most of my life, but in light of my fairly recent illness and the help I have received I do support a couple. The American Kidney Fund has paid my insurance premium for the past couple of years.Without them I would be in a much worse finacial situation than I am. And there are a couple of others. I am grateful for the help unlooked for that I get.
      I can only think of one I actually support.
      There are a few I believe in, but don't belong to any group that actively supports them.
      That even applies to Cannabis legalization.
      I believe in the cause, but don't actively support any of the groups that are 'fighting' for it.

      The one cause I actively support is the Capital Region's Hospice.
      I dealt with them when both my wife and mother died.
      I don't know if I would of made it through those months with the strength I needed if it wasn't for hospice.
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      As you are I was, as I am you will be
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, the police officer was white and sounded nice. The owner simply didn't like the idea of a gun, or an aggressive person, which he felt the police are.

    I STILL don't like it, but at least I understand his reasoning. I bet if the police officer were black and the cafeteria owner were white, they WOULD scream racism.

    Steve
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