City in Shock - Botched Rescue Operation Led to 8 Deaths!

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During the past week, my city had been in a state of shock and anger over the death of 9 hostages on a tourist bus in Manila Philipines

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The operation was obviously totally incompetently carried out and was botched.

1. The bus was hijacked by an sacked policeman who somehow still had access to automatic weapons.
2. The hijack lasted over 10 hours during which there was ample opportunity to take out the gunman, even without harming him physically as food and water was delivered.
3. There was a TV in the bus and the media had full access to the hijack site. The gunmen was able to see what was going on around him. He became enraged when he saw his brother being arrested and that was when the shooting started.
4. Once the Manila police decided to storm the bus, it took them an hour to do it. Some were using sledge hammers and it was obvisous that they were poorly trained and equiped.
5. The Manila police refused to allow a highly trained SWAT team to help. The Philipines does have its highly trained anti-terrorist forces.

To add insult to injury, a Philipines national flag was initially placed on the coffin of the gunmen by his relatives, and more than 1000 persons attended his funeral as if he was a national hero.

Needless to say, temperatures are running very high over here against the Philipines right now. It is sad because there are so many Filipinos here and there are concerns that they may be subject to violence and other retribution. Moroever, there is a black travel alert warning against the Philipines.



Derek
  • Profile picture of the author power of attorney
    The deaths of those people is nothing but a crying shame. Perhaps it just goes to show the limits of force and violence
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  • Profile picture of the author BigDaddys101
    I hate politics, everyone is so worried about looking good they forget about what really needs to be done.

    I miss the old days.... shoot first ask later... lol

    Not to put a joke on your video but some people seriously need to wise up and it's so sad that it takes tragedies like this to happen, before someone down the line starts thinking "Wow, did I screw up?"
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by BigDaddys101 View Post

      I hate politics, everyone is so worried about looking good they forget about what really needs to be done.

      I miss the old days.... shoot first ask later... lol

      Not to put a joke on your video but some people seriously need to wise up and it's so sad that it takes tragedies like this to happen, before someone down the line starts thinking "Wow, did I screw up?"
      Tell me about it! #3 was done because some jerk wanted to look like a big deal, the police were INEPT, *****AND***** the media wanted to get the story out NOW!

      If I were doing it, I would have merely kept tabs on the brother, and told the media that ANY release of such information would get ALL responsible parties THROWN IN JAIL for obstruction of justice and reckless endangerment of the public. I would ALSO promise a healthy fine, etc...

      And they FED the guy!? HECK, if I were him, I would have BROUGHT food and water!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I disagree with the title.

        An unbalanced person with weapons led to 8 deaths. The police may have been wrong - but would have been wrong no matter what. If a sniper killing the hostage taker caused his gun to go off and kill one hostage.....there would have been outrage and some would claim unnecessary force.

        A SWAT team might have had the same end result - but we don't know that. The media coverage should have been limited during the siege but then you have complaints about that. Police procedures may be questioned and changed as a result of the incident.

        However, the responsibility for the deaths lies at the door of the person who did the shooting. Yes, things might have been done better or done differently - but any conclusions about a different outcome are only speculation.

        I am more appalled at people who would make this killer a hero and attend his funeral.

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          I disagree with the title.

          An unbalanced person with weapons led to 8 deaths. The police may have been wrong - but would have been wrong no matter what. If a sniper killing the hostage taker caused his gun to go off and kill one hostage.....there would have been outrage and some would claim unnecessary force.

          A SWAT team might have had the same end result - but we don't know that. The media coverage should have been limited during the siege but then you have complaints about that. Police procedures may be questioned and changed as a result of the incident.

          However, the responsibility for the deaths lies at the door of the person who did the shooting. Yes, things might have been done better or done differently - but any conclusions about a different outcome are only speculation.

          I am more appalled at people who would make this killer a hero and attend his funeral.

          kay

          Even the Philipines Government readily admits that it was badly mis-handled and this is also the consensus of their media as well. The Manila Police chief has been replaced and 4 other officers had been suspended. Their cardinal stated that Aquino failed the first big test of his presidency. There were other mistakes as well. For one, nobody seemed to in charge and their president was no where to be seen. The negotiating made a number of critical mistakes as well.


          Senior Supt. Agrimero Cruz, PNP spokesperson, said a committee had been formed to look into the case. He said that the police leadership had noted “defects” in the action against Mendoza.

          These include the poor handling of the hostage negotiation, “side issues and events that further agitated the hostage-taker,” inadequate capability, skills, equipment and planning of the assault team, improper crowd control, and the noncompliance to media relations procedures in hostage situations.

          “There are plenty of observations. Like the broadcasting live (of troops movements) and it was monitored (by the hostage-taker). There were a lot of usis (bystanders) during the assault and immediately after. The usis were there before the ambulances. These things have to be corrected,” Cruz added.

          Cruz said that a Special Action Force was on standby but that authorities allowed the police on the ground to continue with the negotiations. “In a hostage situation, whatever force committed there should not be pulled out.”
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I agree there were serious errors in judgment made - or at least that seems to be the case.

            I draw the line, however, at blaming the deaths of the hostages on the authorities. One person caused the crisis and even had everything been done in the best possible way by police and authorities - the outcome might have been the same.

            I agree there need to be changes in how such situations are handled - and someone must be in charge in such a crisis. I just think it goes too far when the deaths are blamed on the police or authorities - they didn't pull that trigger. They may have missed opportunities to defuse the situation - but they didn't create it.

            kay
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Needless to say, temperatures are running very high over here against the Philipines right now. It is sad because there are so many Filipinos here and there are concerns that they may be subject to violence and other retribution.
              Same with Muslims over here.
              Personally it makes me sick when people blame a whole group for the actions of one or a few.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                Same with Muslims over here.
                Personally it makes me sick when people blame a whole group for the actions of one or a few.
                Who's blaming a whole group? Frankly, I am fed up with a group here trying to cause problems and, when people call attention to it, others blame all that might disagree with something that is really only tangential to the whole thing.

                OH WELL, I've said my piece. But HECK, it is like calling a white person RACIST because they don't like goth!

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  Who's blaming a whole group? Frankly, I am fed up with a group here trying to cause problems and, when people call attention to it, others blame all that might disagree with something that is really only tangential to the whole thing.

                  OH WELL, I've said my piece. But HECK, it is like calling a white person RACIST because they don't like goth!

                  Steve
                  There's a whole bunch of people in this country who blame 9/11 on Muslims and not just on the terrorist's.
                  I'm not saying everyone here is like that.
                  I have some life long friends who send me emails all the time saying that all Muslims should go back to Iraq or something else stupid like that.
                  It's Racism as far as I'm concerned and I have no tolerance for that.
                  If you don't think it exists, just turn on CNN, MSNBC, or FOX.
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                    There's a whole bunch of people in this country who blame 9/11 on Muslims and not just on the terrorist's.
                    I'm not saying everyone here is like that.
                    I have some life long friends who send me emails all the time saying that all Muslims should go back to Iraq or something else stupid like that.
                    It's Racism as far as I'm concerned and I have no tolerance for that.
                    If you don't think it exists, just turn on CNN, MSNBC, or FOX.
                    Well, CNN and MSNBC claim it happens with conservatives, and on FOX. FOX sometimes says SOME muslim EXTREMISTS tend to do agree with, or be, the terrorists. There is a BIG difference. HEY, I have heard groups, even of AMERICANS that were supposedly born here and MAINSTREAM that have accused Christians of doing things that only some pentacostals do, etc... The fact is that every religion has people at least CLAIMING to be zealots that are crazy, etc... So everyone should realize that none are 100% that way.

                    And most muslims AREN'T from iraq! Who could believe that all started there, etc... OK, they claim the tower of babble was there, etc... BUT, by that argument, maybe we should ALL be there! 8-)

                    BTW the official story is that the muslim faith started in Saudi Arabia, in Mecca!

                    Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                      Well, CNN and MSNBC claim it happens with conservatives, and on FOX. FOX sometimes says SOME muslim EXTREMISTS tend to do agree with, or be, the terrorists. There is a BIG difference. HEY, I have heard groups, even of AMERICANS that were supposedly born here and MAINSTREAM that have accused Christians of doing things that only some pentacostals do, etc... The fact is that every religion has people at least CLAIMING to be zealots that are crazy, etc... So everyone should realize that none are 100% that way.

                      And most muslims AREN'T from iraq! Who could believe that all started there, etc... OK, they claim the tower of babble was there, etc... BUT, by that argument, maybe we should ALL be there! 8-)

                      BTW the official story is that the muslim faith started in Saudi Arabia, in Mecca!

                      Steve
                      That's pretty much my point.
                      The only thing that fuels the claims I stated are ignorance.
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              • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                Same with Muslims over here.
                Personally it makes me sick when people blame a whole group for the actions of one or a few.
                Chinesse-Filipino ties are too strong to have any lasting damage. Corazon Aquino was from a Chinese family and the heavily critized mayor of Manila is Chinese. The Fillipinos in Hong Kong are certainly very upset at how this incident was handled.

                The vast majority here understand that a single deranged person is involved. But the inept handling of it re-inforces that things are very laid back, complacent, disorganized and corrupt in the Philipines. The local Chinese elite there are just as responsible for the endemic corruption over there. It was clear that the police were under equiped. For example, hammers were used during the assault and it took over an hour to get in. There are allegations that a lot of the funds for equipment had been siphoned off.

                I am very sad about this especially since I go to the Phillipines every year and find the people more tourist friendly than those in Thailand and other SE countries I have been to. But it is clear the atmosphere is very liad back and disorganized. For example, we had to put up with airport pickups that did not arrive, and extremely slow restaurant services. There was an incidence when we booked a taxi and the taxi owner told us to move our luggage to another one that he had hired using the money that we had already paid him.

                I feel really sorry for their travel industry, it is going to receive a bad hit. This does emphasize that Philipines is not that safe for tourists. Especially given that the police may not be able to protect them adequately. There are isolated incidents involving tourists all the time that are rarely reported. With a black travel alert warning issued against the Philipines, it will be impossible to get normal travel insurance coverage.

                Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author scarletangel
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by scarletangel View Post

      YOU HATE FILIPINOS FOR THE HOSTAGE FIASCO EARLIER THIS WEEK, RIGHT? THEN, SHOULD WE HATE CHINESE FOR THE LEAD POISONING & MELAMINE CONTAMINATION WHEREIN NOT 8, BUT HUNDREDS, MAYBE EVEN THOUSANDS HAVE SUFFERED. IS IT RIGHT TO BLAME A WHOLE NATION FOR A MISTAKE OF ONE MAN? IF YOU DO, THEN YOU ARE MOST CERTAINLY DENSE. NO ARGUMENTS JUST AN OPINION.
      This is the sort of response, like the thousand plus persons who attended the funeral of the gunner that inflames things.

      No decent person in Hong Kong or China hates Filipinos because of this. Until recently most dentists and many doctors in Hong Kong were trained in the Philipines. We are also very grateful to the thousands of Philipines who came to work in Hong Kong. Indeed, I am sure you will find that the working conditions and overall treatment of Filipino workers are among the best in Asia.

      It is just that we found the Philipines Government response inadequate. Surely you do critrisize your own government and politicians from time to time? Just like the response to Katrina in the U.S., where many were unsatisfied at their own government response.

      For your information, Hong Kong is separately run from China. Indeed China itself issued a travel warning for its citizens against Hong Kong just a couple of months ago. If you think Melamine contamination from China justifies the killing of innocent tourists, then I think you really need some help. There is no linkage between these issues, and also the fact that the Chinese run some of the worse drug and sex trafficking gangs in the Philipines that no decent person supports.

      Many of us in Hong Kong feel a great affinity towards the Philipines and its people. We watched in horror the corruption of the Marcos years and shared your elation when he was overthrown. It is just that we are a bit dissappointed that things are still so disorganized after all these years.
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