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If you put out a safety net for everyone.....

by ShayB
33 replies
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....how long is it before things fall apart? :confused:

Hear me on this.

If we guarantee that people don't lose their homes to foreclosure, that they have longer and longer periods for unemployment checks, that they have food stamps to keep them fed and bankruptcy to protect them from creditors....

Where is the incentive to produce? :confused:

I can remember when I was little and my Dad worked 3 jobs for a while because money was tight. Why? Because he had to do it (temporarily) to keep a roof over our heads!

If we have kids growing up knowing that they are protected from hardship, what is that going to do to our society? :confused:

I am all for charity. I know that rough times happen. But it should not be a way of life. It should be a temporary (and, at times, humbling) situation, IMHO. (The "humbling" part makes you want to fix the situation quickly, IMHO.)

If enough people are given handouts, then what happens to the workers who are supporting the system? :confused:
  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    What about those who have supported the system for years and now need it and can't get it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I agree - unemployment continues to rise - and jobs are not easy to find in some areas. In fact, in some places there are no jobs now to be had.

      I have no problem with spending money to help those who previously were productive survive the mess caused mainly by our own government and big business - just don't believe in "forever" safety nets where people are supported by government all their lives (assuming they are healthy and capable of learning and working).

      "working 3 jobs" sounds good - and sometimes is necessary. I've done it - but couldn't do it now because the jobs aren't there.

      Unemployment is a lifeline for some who have been laid off - and for those who have worked for years only to see his job go overseas or disappear altogether - I have no problem with extending benefits to those people.

      This country is in a much bigger mess than D.C. would have us believe.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        I have known way too many people who will wait until they are a week or two away from having their unemployment checks stop to go look for another job. They would simply take longer to go look for a job if their "benefits" were extended. They look at it as a paid vacation.

        Hubby used to work in the (Un) Employment Office - trust me, that is the attitude of 90% of the people there.

        As far as jobs not being available, that is cr*p. There may not be good jobs, or ones you want to have as a career, but if you need a job so you can eat, you can find something. (At least around here you can.)
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          I've got 14 - 16 year old affiliates that are putting all these whiners to shame. They're making anywhere from $300 - $5,000 per week. There is opportunity all around, but it requires a spark in spirit called motivation that is seriously lacking in the safety net mentality.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Wright
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            I've got 14 - 16 year old affiliates that are putting all these whiners to shame. They're making anywhere from $300 - $5,000 per week. There is opportunity all around, but it requires a spark in spirit called motivation that is seriously lacking in the safety net mentality.
            Problem is that most schoolage kids are supported by Mom/Pop.
            Who supports Mom and Pop when there are no jobs around sufficient
            to pay even modest costs of living/ existence.

            Just one major employer or industry folding in a locality can destroy
            that entire local economy .... medium and small businesses collapse
            and you get a ghost town.

            Not much fun for anyone when an employer gets 1000 applications
            received for one part time sweatshop job. Seen that in the UK!
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            • Profile picture of the author myob
              Well, then send me a PM and I will have one of my 16 year old affiliates show them how to make $5,000/week anywhere, even from a ghost town. Winners make money; whiners make excuses.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                Real people are facing real problems - and the idea that this country should not provide a safety net for 10s of thousands of hard working people who are losing their jobs daily is ludicrous to me.

                Most of these families are not in a position to invest time and money into the stock market or any other "make money" proposition. Yes, they are working people who rely on regular paychecks and there's nothing wrong with that. There are always some who abuse the system - but many more who simply need that safety net until this country gets back on its feet.

                We've approved 700 billion dollars for banks and lenders - now Congress is looking at giving auto makers even more billions saying "they are the backbone of this country". That's crap - those working the JOBS that are disappearing in this country are the backbone. The citizens in crisis deserve at least as much help as the greedy corporations do.

                Things have already fallen apart - and anyone who thinks finding a job is easy either lives in a rare place or has not had to look for a decent job recently.

                kay
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Wright
                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                Well, then send me a PM and I will have one of my 16 year old affiliates show them how to make $5,000/week anywhere, even from a ghost town. Winners make money; whiners make excuses.
                LOL, we all know about affiliate schemes Paul. The scheme owner
                makes sometimes significant money out of a stream of temporary
                affiliates ... a few of who may well earn a decent income for a while.
                For the rest who likely make little more than pocket change its a
                costly waste of time. Probably because they do not have the money
                to get top spots in the SEs etc.,etc.,etc.

                Pure numbers game in which there are always far more losers than winners.

                On the other hand, judging from my increasingly bulging daily
                load of incoming Spam, there are loads of new affiliates of
                mainly US schemes/products/ and other wondrous things that
                are completely innapplicable to myself or even the UK. Yes, I
                could delete/filter them out, but I find them useful as a barometer.

                IM would also seem to be experiencing a severe downturn in that
                "gurus" firesale offers prevelant earlier this year have also
                dwindled to a mere trickle. People are keeping their wallets in
                their pockets.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  Some total on the news this morning - job losses in major sectors in the PAST THREE MONTHS.

                  Retail
                  Over 100,000 jobs lost (and the number is still rising even approaching the holiday season when traditionally temp jobs are widely available)

                  Construction
                  111,000 jobs lost

                  Manufacturing
                  200,000 jobs lost

                  In every one of those sectors, there are related businesses - suppliers, advertising companies, etc that are also negatively affected.

                  Companies like Circuit City are filing bankruptcy and closing many stores.
                  DHL closed it's express company - leaving the US only market (10k jobs)

                  That's just the biggest sectors - the ones that make the news. That's well over 400,000 people who went to work 4 months ago and collected their paycheck and contributed to the economy by paying bills and buying their goods. Not only do they not have a job to go to now - but they are no longer producing work and products that others use.

                  My own employer in what is considered a recession proof business - just terminated over 60 employees who earned incomes of $35-80k a year. Many of them had been with the company for over 10 years. This company has never had layoffs or job reductions in its history and has an international market based in the US - but this is the second cutback in 3 months in my local area and the company is eliminating jobs in its other market areas, too.

                  Most workers have families who have now lost medical and other benefits as well as an income. Two years ago anyone capable of working could find a decent job here - that's no longer true.

                  This isn't a glitch- it's a major problem that is cascading through our economy and has been increasing monthly with no sign of stopping. Our national debt is skyrocketing and will need to be paid sometime in the future - at the same time that our base of producing goods for sale is diminishing.

                  The idea that this number of people could jump into a "make money" online market or stock market or buy foreclosure market - and be fine - does not meet the reality test.

                  kay
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                  ***
                  It actually doesn't take much to be considered a 'difficult woman' -
                  that's why there are so many of us.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ShayB
                    I am not against having any kind of safety net. I said in my OP that I understand that things happen.

                    But where do you draw the line? :confused: I sympathize with people who have lost jobs, but no one has the guarantee that a job is for a lifetime.

                    Where does personal responsibility come into play?

                    If someone is making $80K a year and has debt up the wazoo and can't keep all of his toys when he loses that job, that is not my problem.

                    If someone loses a job and is having trouble feeding his family while he looks for another job, that is my problem.

                    I know of too many people who are getting handouts from the government, plus making the rounds to every charity in town - and won't look for a job. Why should they? They are living fine the way they are now....

                    People lose jobs. It is not easy and it causes hardship. We have gone through it. It is hard, but you deal with it. That is life, and we already have safeguards put into place to help those who have lost jobs.

                    We cannot guarantee everyone a trouble-free life. It just cannot be done.

                    I am really tired of doing the right thing (watching our spending, paying off debt, living below our means) and seeing others getting bailed out.

                    JMHO
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      • Profile picture of the author mbealmear
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I agree - unemployment continues to rise - and jobs are not easy to find in some areas. In fact, in some places there are no jobs now to be had.

        I have no problem with spending money to help those who previously were productive survive the mess caused mainly by our own government and big business - just don't believe in "forever" safety nets where people are supported by government all their lives (assuming they are healthy and capable of learning and working).

        "working 3 jobs" sounds good - and sometimes is necessary. I've done it - but couldn't do it now because the jobs aren't there.

        Unemployment is a lifeline for some who have been laid off - and for those who have worked for years only to see his job go overseas or disappear altogether - I have no problem with extending benefits to those people.

        This country is in a much bigger mess than D.C. would have us believe.

        kay
        Where I live in KY we have seen 4 factories completely close their doors and most others have had MAJOR cut backs.
        With this alone we now have an extra 5-7 thousand people looking for jobs now...and things are scarce enough that you cannot even get a job at the local McDonalds!
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          1/4 million lost their jobs in October, I got laid off Oct. 31.
          In 2002 after my wife died I was diagnosed with degenerative disk disease and spinal stenosis. When I applied for Social Security Disability I was immediately approved which even surprised my case worker at the Social Security Administration. I was also collecting Survivors Benefits for my step-daughter, between the two I was taking in around 2 grand clear a month. In 2005 I tried going back to work. Now when you are labeled permanently disabled it's tough finding someone to hire you, especially when you have spent most of the last 20 years doing landscaping. Fortunetly I had a friend who owned a landscape company who hired me. 3 months later I blasted out the same two disks that orginally caused my problems and was out of work again. In 2007 I tried working again and have worked for the same landscape compant till I got laid off on 10/31. I Was actually taking home less working then I was when I was on disability and getting survivors benifits, but wanted to pay my own way. I have a mortgage, plus the high NY property and school taxes that go with it plus a motorcycle payment (don't have a running car anymore) and all the other bills like electric, internet, food, etc.
          To say I get pissed when I hear about the wall street bailout and now the automotive bailouts when I can't even get a break from the banks or state is an understatement. I don't want a free ride and feel I have proved that (unlike wall street, etc.)
          So I agree with you Shay. The system has been so focused on helping anyone and everyone that when someone who is trying needs a hand you can't get one, why? Because I was willing to help myself.

          Just to clarify a couple of things.
          I got the mortgage on the family house after my mother died (in 2002 4 months after my wife died) and left me as the executor of her will with over 20,000 of debt. I got a 15 year fixed rate mortgage with a low interest rate. The mortgage was for half the value of the house.
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  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by espacecadet View Post

      Not to hijack the thread but this should piss you off even more, like it did me.

      AIG just hit the government up for another 75 billion or so.

      Yet they won't stop paying their lobbyists millions each year...
      I saw that on the news right after I typed my post.
      Won't have to worry about heating the house tonight, the steam coming out my ears will take care of that.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    ThomM,
    When you say "When I applied for Social Security Disability I was immediately approved which even surprised my case worker at the Social Security Administration." do you mean you got a quick answer and approval or that when they answered you you were approved the first time and didn't have to appeal?
    From what they (the SSA) have told me,thay have 6 months to give me an answer,which I am in my 5th month of waiting. And though I have been told renal failure gives you automatic approval, I don't believe it and I fully expect to have to appeal.
    It's really rediculous too, because within 2 weeks of filing, I received a letter saying I was medically disabled, but they have to determine if I am disable by their other standards. What those standards are they won't tell me.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      ThomM,
      When you say "When I applied for Social Security Disability I was immediately approved which even surprised my case worker at the Social Security Administration." do you mean you got a quick answer and approval or that when they answered you you were approved the first time and didn't have to appeal?
      From what they (the SSA) have told me,thay have 6 months to give me an answer,which I am in my 5th month of waiting. And though I have been told renal failure gives you automatic approval, I don't believe it and I fully expect to have to appeal.
      It's really rediculous too, because within 2 weeks of filing, I received a letter saying I was medically disabled, but they have to determine if I am disable by their other standards. What those standards are they won't tell me.
      When I applied my case worker told me I wouldn't hear anything for 6 months, then I would be denied. She then said I could get a hearing and would most likely win.
      The very next month I got my first check. I called her to see if there was a mistake. She told me she was as surprised as I was, then she read my file from the doctor and examiner and told me from what she read from the doctors report it was a miracle l wasn't paralyzed from the waste down.
      I was reevaluated a year later by SSA and when I called them to explain I didn't have health insurance anymore and couldn't go to the doctors to be checked out they told me that was not necessary as it was just a formality.
      When I did go back to work first in 05 they told me not to even try.
      Apparently I'm in better shape then what the doctor and SSA thought cause I've been working full time doing commercial mowing in the summer and snow plowing in the winter since May 07.
      I really don't understand it all myself Kim. A couple of people have told me it was because I was 50 when I became disabled, my orthopedic surgeon told me it was because I was a hair away from severing my spinal cord.
      I had surgery in June of 03 when they did a lamiectomy (sp) where they shaved down the wall of the 2 disks that where compressing my spinal cord. At that time the surgeon told me if I bent over or tried to lift anything over 5 lbs. I could end up in a wheel chair. So I guess I was in pretty bad shape.
      I did a ton of walking after the surgery and some simple exercises and now except for some nerve damage (it always feels like I have a sock balled up under my toes on my left foot and I get severve cramps in my foot and lower leg) I feel pretty damn good.
      Anyways, that's my story and I'm sticking to it
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      It's really rediculous too, because within 2 weeks of filing, I received a letter saying I was medically disabled, but they have to determine if I am disable by their other standards. What those standards are they won't tell me.
      They have very different standards from anyone else.

      My husband is a disabled veteran, but when he applied for SSA, he was denied. One goverment branch considers him disabled, and another does not. It is crazy.:confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by Shay60654 View Post

        They have very different standards from anyone else.

        My husband is a disabled veteran, but when he applied for SSA, he was denied. One goverment branch considers him disabled, and another does not. It is crazy.:confused:
        Did you appeal and then did he get it, or are you still in the process?
        It is crazy how the government works,and all of us need to work together to get it changed.
        Part of the process was filling out a form asking redicuous questions about each job you had for that past 15 years that said thing like, how many hours did you spend every day:
        standing
        sitting
        crowching
        bending
        lifting
        arms bent
        arms over your head
        reading
        filing
        talking on the telephone
        etc,etc.
        Please break it down for each day.
        Like I said, rediculous.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Well congrats ThomM and I'm glad for you. like I said, I expect to be denied even when I've been told people with renal failure get automatically approved.
    To me it sounds like a racket because when someone gets denied and appeals, the SSA automatically withholds 25% for lawyer fees. And the majority of people that appeal win.
    Why not just aprrove people the first time when they have verifiable disabilities?
    As far as the orginal question, Shay, I have paid into the system for close to 40 years,so now that through no fault of my own I have become disabled, what is the time limit I should get assitsance? I would have to look it upto be 100% sure, but I believe the government will continue to give me benefits,if I ever get them in the first place, for 1 year after I get a kidney transplant, if I ever do get a kidney transplant.

    Oh, as far as the sock under your toes? That doesn't sound too awfully bad. When they did the surgery on my arm, which I have actually posted pics on the blog listed in my sig, they didn't tell me all the side effects. I have nerve damage in the lower portion of my left arm,I cam smack that sucker real hard and hardly feel it.
    Also, my left arm and hand are always falling asleep;you know,losing feeling in it.
    But in the long run, things could be worse.
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Kim, nowhere in my OP did I say anything about people who are disabled. I am married to a disabled veteran. Don't get me started about how people with disabilities are treated. That is an entirely different situation, IMHO.

      I am talking about able-bodied people who live off of the system and milk it for all it is worth.

      If they are given more, they will take it.

      Because of that, those who truly need it are denied.

      Because of them, those who can work get really tired of it.

      Sorry if you misunderstood my OP. I suppose I did not make that clarification.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Well congrats ThomM and I'm glad for you. like I said, I expect to be denied even when I've been told people with renal failure get automatically approved.
      To me it sounds like a racket because when someone gets denied and appeals, the SSA automatically withholds 25% for lawyer fees. And the majority of people that appeal win.
      Why not just aprrove people the first time when they have verifiable disabilities?
      As far as the orginal question, Shay, I have paid into the system for close to 40 years,so now that through no fault of my own I have become disabled, what is the time limit I should get assitsance? I would have to look it upto be 100% sure, but I believe the government will continue to give me benefits,if I ever get them in the first place, for 1 year after I get a kidney transplant, if I ever do get a kidney transplant.

      Oh, as far as the sock under your toes? That doesn't sound too awfully bad. When they did the surgery on my arm, which I have actually posted pics on the blog listed in my sig, they didn't tell me all the side effects. I have nerve damage in the lower portion of my left arm,I cam smack that sucker real hard and hardly feel it.
      Also, my left arm and hand are always falling asleep;you know,losing feeling in it.
      But in the long run, things could be worse.
      Kim I can honestly say I really don't have a clue why SSA gave me my benefits right away when others have to go through the bullshit you are going through, the reasons I gave are purely speculation.
      As far as the sock feeling, your damn right that ain't bad.
      I saw the MRI of my spine from before the surgery.
      Imagine your spinal cord is as thick as your index finger and in one spot where the 2 disks where bulging it was as thick as a pencil lead, now that hurts So to not only have the operation be a success and the sock thing and cramps all I have to deal with now, I won't complain at all, well maybe about the craps but even those pale when I think of how I felt before.

      Paul nothing in your post impressed me to be honest.
      I'm back being a productive member of society, at least as much as it will allow me and I did it without anyones help. What I've said about myself in this thread is only a very small part of what I've been through in the last 7 or 8 years. The only reason I didn't end up homeless and in a mission is because I've fought damn hard to prevent that from happening to myself and my young step-daughter who I have been supporting on my own with no help from her family (my family is all dead except for my 38 year old daughter who lives out of state) and the whole $500 a month from the survivors benifits I got when her mother died. Opps wait a minute that went up to $700 a month when her real father was murdered a year after her mother died.

      Wow a 16 year old gave a speech, did his mommy and daddy know? When my step-daughter was 16 she didn't have a mommy or daddy, just me.
      Today she is 20 years old has graduated from high school, has two jobs and is preparing for college. Plus she is a well adjusted person.

      Like I said before 250,000 people lost their jobs just last month! When a help wanted sign goes up around here it's not uncommon to see a line of people applying for it, and that's at McDonalds.
      I've never asked for pity or a hand out, in fact I'm damn proud of what I've been able to do in the last few years. I've gone from being totally disabled to working a full time physical job and raising a young girl and I'm in my 50's. Again that is only a small part of what I've been through in recent years.
      So if I get pissed off (and that bothers you) when Wall Street, AIG, and the Auto industry mismanages their companies and then have the balls to ask for a bail out, tuff. When I get pissed when all those who got them stupid mortgages are going to get help and I get a sensible mortgage to pay off the debt my mother left when she died and all I want is a short deferment to fully get back on my feet and that bothers you or sounds like I'm looking for pity, tuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Shay, your orginal post said "for everyone", so I hope you can see how I read it. And no, I also don't feel anyone that is perfectly capable of working should be able to get assistance. Or I should clarify, capable and there are jobs to be had. As others have said, in a lot of places, there are literally no jobs right now. A major employer where I am just announced they were shutting down 150 stores. The employees have no control over their situation.
    Granted, this was many many years ago, but there was a time in my life where I worked 5 years for a trash company. Nowadays the call it waste management, but its trash. When I started I was getting paid $2.75 an hour to scrub dumpsters at fast food joints inside and out, then paint them. It was the nastiest job I have ever done in my life. But I did it, because I needed the money. But I also did a good job,I've alwayss done the best I could at anything I do,and when I left the company after 5 years, I was the office manager making a heck of a lot more than what I started at.
    Almost all the kids I see today would say they are too good to do a job like that. Why? Because our generation, or at least my generation,I don't know your age have spoiled them. They feel they deserve everything without having to do something in return. And don't get offended, I don't mean you and me personally, but I do mean the baby boomer generation.
    They aren't all of the problem, but they are a part.
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Shay, your orginal post said "for everyone", so I hope you can see how I read it.
      I do. What I meant by the title when I said "for everyone" was that there are certain people that truly need assistance, but now we are bailing out people who simply made bad decisions, banks, companies, and people who don't want to take jobs that are beneath them (in other words, everyone).

      Again, sorry for the confusion. My bad.

      No, we have not appealed at this time. My husband is trying to work for as long as he is able, but he simply is in too much pain to do it for much longer.

      If nothing changes in the near future, I will more than likely end up being the breadwinner in the family. We are preparing for that possibility by paying off our debt (including our house) and putting money aside for savings.

      Once our debt is paid off and I am bringing in enough to replace his income, he will (more than likely) quit his job when he cannot work anymore. (Probably by this time next year.)
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Yeah I know a lot of ppl who look down on jobs like fast food jobs. One lady, her kid was looking for a job and I said the fast food places are hiring and she made a face and said, "he would NEVER work there and I would never work there". Most ppl today think they are too good for jobs like that such as fast food, housekeeping and minimum wage jobs like that and they look down on ppl who have those jobs.

    And too bad the unemployment rate is 6.5% highest its been in ages. It's scary when ppl need to provide for their family and they can't even find a job to be had.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Whatever happened to the entrepreneurial spirit in this forum? I can you tell you some REAL sob stories of how people have overcome obstacles, job loss, poverty, serious illness, drug abuse, depression, sorrow, pain, abandonment, rejection, bankruptcy, and failure. Sorry to break up this pity party, but without exception, successful people have overcome and risen above their handicaps or shortcomings toward high achievement because they had a burning desire for success.

      The most wretched people I have ever met live in the downtown Los Angeles, California Rescue Mission. That is one of the charities that I support, and work several days each month. We feed, house and teach life skills to hundreds of men women and children who have fallen to the lowest levels of existence that I have seen in a civilized society. With our dedicated counselors and business connections, many of them are able to move on to become productive members of society within a few months.

      There ARE jobs, and lots of them. It may not be what you want to do, or may not even support the lifestyle of which you have become accustomed. But you can survive if you've got the drive. The best jobs require training or advanced degrees. Got for it. Get trained. There are financial aid programs available in most vocational schools and colleges even in these economic times.

      A few months ago, one of my 16 year old assistants (dressed up as an old man with a grey beard) was giving a motivational talk to a group of 30-something down and outers. At the end of his speech, he sang this song,

      You gotta' have a dream to hold on to.
      Yes, a dream that's all about you.
      Dreams come true, for me. And yes for you.
      You gotta have a dream that makes your heart sing,
      like a bird that greets the morning.
      Dreams are songs your heart gives light to
      when you gaze upon a star.

      Some folks spend a lifetime
      never living out their dreams.
      Quiet lives of desperation.
      Life isn't what it seems.
      Make your dream your heart song.
      Feel it deep inside of you.
      Hear that quiet voice within sing.
      To thine own self be true.

      You gotta' have a dream that you believe in.
      Yes a dream's the place to begin.
      Dreams come true for me.
      And yes, for you.
      You gotta' have a dream that you hold on to.
      Yes the dream is all about you.
      So sing from your heart son.
      You gotta' have a dream.

      Needless to say, that boy took down the house with his guitar playing. At the end one man went up to him and said, "Thank you. I know that if you don't have a dream you have less than nothing."
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    myob said:" Sorry to break up this pity party, but without exception, successful people have overcome and risen above their handicaps or shortcomings toward high achievement because they had a burning desire for success."
    Sorry if you see it as a pity party. I read the whole thread and don't see anyone asking for pity.
    I did see people posting about reality.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Well, good luck with that. My wife became the breadwinner in May when I was forced to "retire" I do have a few things I'm working on in the IM field, but it will be a while before any of them are ready.
    Sadly she does not make enough to cover everything so we are in a constant struggle. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, getting help from people we don't know via my website in my sig, the local Moose club paid our elecreic bill once month,etc,etc, I think you get the picture.
    Once disability kicks in if and when I am approved, we will be able to maintain our bills.
    All we have is our mortgage and one car payment.
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      I am sorry to hear that. ((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))

      We are paying off the house and car in the next 6-12 months. Once those are paid off, we can live on next to nothing (only utilities, Comcast and insurance to pay). He is trying to work long enough for us to get all of that paid off.
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      "Fate protects fools, little children, and ships called Enterprise." ~Commander Riker
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I have faith things will work out for all of us,just keep the positve attitude you have and you will be fine!
    And I do understand your frustration at those that suck the system dry taking away from those that really need it, but it's our governments (and ours) responsibility to put a stop to it and develop a way that those in need get it when they need it, without the BSing around, and those that don't need it can no longer scam the system.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      myob -

      Sorry to be a wet blanket - but I'm tired of hearing about 16 yr old assistants.

      How many of them support a family - or pay their own housing, etc, for that matter?

      The real point is that a country that can bail out one business after another (news flash - American Express has now became a BANK - so it can qualify for govt money from the bailout) - should be able to take care of citizens during a crisis.

      To say it's OK for these big businesses to waste funds and dig a hole only to be bailed out (and they are, by the way, paying dividends to investors from these bailout funds) - and then say any citizen who loses their job should become an entrepreneur is stupid to me. Many losing their jobs are in their 40s and 50s and have worked for their company for many years - and anyone who thinks jobs are easy to find now isn't living in the real offline world.

      A little compassion goes a long way and I see little compassion from some in this thread.

      kay
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      ***
      It actually doesn't take much to be considered a 'difficult woman' -
      that's why there are so many of us.
      ...jane goodall
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I honestly take the reports of 16 year olds making 5k a week with a grain of salt.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    ThomM, I hope you know I was trying to be complimentary and wasn't being negative.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      ThomM, I hope you know I was trying to be complimentary and wasn't being negative.
      Yes I knew that Kim
      I also know how frustrating it can be dealing with the SSA.
      Even though I breezed through the whole process, I know I was the exception and not the norm and that's simply not right.
      When I hear stories like yours and others and the problems with SSA it makes me sick.
      I have a friend who blew out his back when he was 35 years old. 10 years later he is still fighting SSA and now his wife is also disabled and having problems with them also.
      I also know another person who is nothing more then a crack addict and has been a drug addict as long as I've know him which is going on 40 years.
      He applied for SSD and got it right away. That is so wrong it makes me sick.
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        In 1981, I lost much more than my home. I lost my first wife from diabetes. She died from a heart attack brought on by this disease. For nearly 8 months, I was drinking whiskey every night and day to ease the pain. Finally got fired from my job for non-performance and my home of 8 years went into foreclosure. When me and my 4 kids got evicted, I remember telling my dad that I just wanted to die, and that there was nothing left to live for. After listening to me sobbing, he said to me, "So what are you waiting for?"

        So that is how I got my compassion, from my father. "What are you waiting for?" At first I was shocked, but then I realized that I may not have anything of material value, but I did have four kids that needed a real father. Suddenly I really wanted to live, to be there for my kids. This question; "What are you waiting for?" has been ringing in my head ever since - for over 27 years now.

        In 1983 I married my beautiful second wife, and we have 3 more kids. Got a good job, and was doing well until 1987 when I got laid off, couldn't make the house payments and lost my home again from foreclosure. For two years, I worked odd jobs, temp agencies and my wife had to go to work to feed 7 kids and pay rent. We were not able to save anything, and that is when I decided that in 5 years I would have my own business and never again be dependent on anybody for anything.

        When I set that goal, things began to change. The temp agency I was working for sent me to a stock broker telemarketing "boiler room" to set up cubicles for the sales reps. That job lasted two weeks, but it might be considered another brick that has built me up into who I am today. While I was putting cubicle walls together and laying the telephone and computer cables, I watched as one of the brokers sitting at his computer made nearly $600,000 on one trade in the stock market!

        I asked him if he could make an investment for me like that. Laughing, he said, bring me $2,000 and I'll see what I can do. It took me a little over a month to raise $2,000 by selling our stuff at garage sales and swap meets. But I did it, brought it to my stock broker. In six weeks, that $2,000 was parlayed into $30,000 in gold mining stocks. So now you can see why I promote investing in the stock market so much.

        I believe if you set a goal, and do everything in your power to achieve that goal, events will converge to offer up opportunity for success. My goal was to become financially independent, and it burned within me for years. Opportunities continued to appear seemingly out of nowhere that brought me ever closer to my dreams. Almost to the day from one of the lowest points in my life, within 5 years of setting this goal, I bought a luxurious home for my family in a suburb of Los Angeles, California. Some people say I'm just lucky, but I disagree - it was all planned within my mind as a dream before it became a reality.

        High achievement often brings arrogance and haughtiness, and that is what I am working on to control. I am confident that if I were to lose everything and have to start over, I will be back within 5 years. That is what I teach my affiliates, some are as young as 14 years of age and some are older than me. Dreams should not belong to only the young.

        You have to dream big and develop a burning desire to achieve those dreams. I realize that life is not fair, but I have seen the deepest pain and the lowest of hopelessness, both personally and at the Los Angeles Rescue Mission where I do a lot of volunteer work and charitable contributions. The greatest compassion I believe is to offer hope and the power to dream; not pity and handouts.

        So it is truly with love and deepest compassion when I say: Dream BIG. Winners make money; Whiners make excuses. So what are you waiting for?
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