What's The Best Way To Learn A Foreign Language?

espacecadet

Banned 16 years ago

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dwieder 16 years ago

start by buying self help book. try to learn the basic words like good morning and hello and from then, try to learn deeper words. it would be easier for you to learn if you will actually use it in your daily conversations. in home, at work, at the street. i learned basic italian because of that.
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- loganhood 16 years ago
  
  Get a local friend from the country whose language you want to learn (or better yet a girlfriend/boyfriend).
  
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  sladezer0 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by loganhood
  
  Get a local friend from the country whose language you want to learn (or better yet a girlfriend/boyfriend).
  
  Yeah, I agree with this suggestion. I spoke a little spanish from high school classes, but couldn't really converse at all. I met a girl who only knew a little English and we ended up dating for about a year. Over that one year I learned the language well enough that I am completely conversant and won't ever forget!
  
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  Lizaswadling 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by loganhood
  
  Get a local friend from the country whose language you want to learn (or better yet a girlfriend/boyfriend).
  
  its great option by the way.. loved your comment honey
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  jgand 14 years ago
  
  I think the best way to learn a foreign language is reading. Start with childrens books, and then regular books youmight beinterested in. You can learn many vocabularies from a newspaper too. Using an electronic dictionary also helps.
  
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Tiger 16 years ago

Depending on which one you want to learn, buy a book or get a program
that has cassettes or mp3s of basic sentences with the language you want
spoken in english and in that language. This, coupled with flash-cards is
quick.

If it is spanish, it is best to
simply move to Miami or San Antonio or some such place.
(Your profile says you are from Mars )

One tip I usually never hear given to those who
have a desire to learn a foreign language is that some
have a "gift" of learning languages, and some do not.

If you are not one of the "gifted" ones, it will be magnitudes
harder for you.
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clvezlys

16 years ago

#1: DO NOT take classes. Waste of time (yes, you can learn languages that way - but it takes time and effort to stay awake)

#2. Recommended systems for learning:
Pimsleur audio lessons: drills/crams into your head the most commonly used words and phrases that you would need as a tourist to be able to place an order in a restaurant, talk to a receptionist in a hotel, buy a newspaper, exchange a few phrases with a business partner, etc. Drawback - a tad taxing and there is a lot of material to get through.

Michelle Thomas system - also audio courses. These emulate a classroom enviroment with a teacher and two additional students. Teaches from the basics, including the grammar. Easy to learn, you can stop anytime and pick it up from where you left in the lesson, rather enjoyable, and really effective. I recommend this over the Pimsleur programs if you are ready to commit to learning the language all the way (not that Pimsleur is bad, but start with this if you can).

However, the selection of courses using Michelle Thomas program is rather limited. Still has the most popular languages, but on the other hand, there is a Pimsleur course for all of the languages I can identify, and then some for those I cannot.

If you (or anyone else really) have anymore questions, PM me or add me on MSN or Skype.

Thanks
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bendiggs 16 years ago

The very best way to learn a foreign language is immersion. Surround yourself with native speakers, either move to where the language is spoken, or house a few people who speak the language. Alternately, the Rosetta Stone software is very good at teaching a language, but it really depends on the student. It requires effort and dedication and the ability to force yourself to do as instructed, which can be really hard when dealing with software.
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James Liberty

16 years ago

Thanks everyone.

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colinredk

16 years ago

There's another way of "immersion": foreign TV channels on cable. The fastest immersion techniques as mentioned in earlier posts would be moving to a place where they speak the language and forcing yourself not to speak in english. (I also like the other method of having a foreign-speaking boyfriend or girlfriend.)

But if those are not viable, foreign language TV is the way to go. It forces you to listen to the language and understand from the conversation. Additionally, these are native speakers, so you'll also get to hear different accents (or dialects.) Very culturally educational.

Of course, there are foreign language courses on the net. Deutsche-Welle has a free german language course on their website.

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ConcordeWarrior

16 years ago

Move to the place and stay away from those who speak your language.
This is the only way. A bit difficult at first but you get used to it after a while.
I have done it several times. I can tell you it works.

Then the internet (or TV/Radio) is a good way to keep the language but not to learn it.

Thanks
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dwieder

16 years ago

yes, you can opt to watch foreign movies. (but make sure that the language they are using is your preferred language. at first it is difficult to do that but as time passes by, you will actually get comfortable with it. do not try to memorize owrds but understand them and link them to actual things. hope it helps.

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Gary Mader

16 years ago

If you want to learn Spanish start hanging out at your local Home Depot and Lowes everything in some of these places is in both English and Spanish

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Nvc

16 years ago

Hi

I have done this when i was a kid
was bored with my primitive vegetable lifestyle and wanted to make a change

so i borrowed a German book from library with tape and all i can say is. If you do it the right way its extremely easy.

1. chapter one you start to write the words on a little paper, little enought so you can have it with you wherever you go.
2. live with this paper, take a look at a word when you cleaning, doing laundry, sitting on the bus, at work, kinda whenever
3. when you so so remember the words start to read chapter one, you will understand most of it.
4. now listen to the tape. Of course do it when you up to most boring things at home like cleaning, doing laundry, dis washing.
and then continue to chapter 2

you will find it quite amazing how easy it is to learn kind anything this way. i do this here in IM. the information i get, i record it on a speech program and listen to them at work

If you do this language hint the way i tell you to do and if you are serious about it then after about 3 months, you will listen the tape from chapter one and to the end of the book and understand everything and you will probably remember so much form the tape so you will be able to remember what they are going to say before they say it..
this will make you bored because in the end its not funny to lissen to crap like
-Uncle bob is visiting his grandmother and missed the train

Then dont bother to buy or borrow higher lvl of learning book, you will just get bored

you visit their news page in that language instead , cnn or some national news paper online magazine

why?

simple, You probably follow the news in your country so if lets say they talk some terrorist attack or some uber storm somewhere and you visit their national page and read the same as you just saw on you news! you will understand half of it allread and just fill in with the words you dont understand form a dictionary.

News is also best because every person will always find something in a news paper that is interesting, music, politics, foreign or national politics or whatever interests you

Trust me on this one, i have done it
You will find it so easy that its just unbelievable

Good luck

Thanks
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HeySal 16 years ago

James,

Words are symbols through which we convey ideas - word symbolism is derived from the culture that the word is shaped in.
To really completely understand a language, you must immerse yourself in the culture of the people who speak it. While nothing beats learning a language from being inside of the country in which it is spoken - you can do a few things that will help you understand the language better as you learn it - and it will make it easier to remember as well.

Read about the culture. Try to pick words or phrases you know already out of magazines or newspapers written in the language. Keep a dictionary of thelanguage/English right at hand when you do this and you will naturally pick it up now and again. As you learn, this literature will not only become more connotatively understandable, it contain clues about the culture which produced it and strengthen your understanding of the connotations. You will learn it faster and retain it better.
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- eljay003 16 years ago
  
  I studied French at school. I tried hard to learn the language. I may not speak that good but at least I can carry a conversation. But that was a long time ago. I had forgotten (though I can still remember a few words every now and then).
  I agree with everything posted in this thread and it will also help a lot if you can actually use it every day. I have no one to talk to then but I am trying to learn French again even the simple ones first.
  Good luck to both of us
  
  Thanks
  
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romantic ejaculare

15 years ago

Originally Posted by fatfookbob

Hi

I have done this when i was a kid
was bored with my primitive vegetable lifestyle and wanted to make a change

so i borrowed a German book from library with tape and all i can say is. If you do it the right way its extremely easy.

1. chapter one you start to write the words on a little paper, little enought so you can have it with you wherever you go.
2. live with this paper, take a look at a word when you cleaning, doing laundry, sitting on the bus, at work, kinda whenever
3. when you so so remember the words start to read chapter one, you will understand most of it.
4. now listen to the tape. Of course do it when you up to most boring things at home like cleaning, doing laundry, dis washing.
and then continue to chapter 2

you will find it quite amazing how easy it is to learn kind anything this way. i do this here in IM. the information i get, i record it on a speech program and listen to them at work

If you do this language hint the way i tell you to do and if you are serious about it then after about 3 months, you will listen the tape from chapter one and to the end of the book and understand everything and you will probably remember so much form the tape so you will be able to remember what they are going to say before they say it..
this will make you bored because in the end its not funny to lissen to crap like
-Uncle bob is visiting his grandmother and missed the train

Then dont bother to buy or borrow higher lvl of learning book, you will just get bored

you visit their news page in that language instead , cnn or some national news paper online magazine

why?

simple, You probably follow the news in your country so if lets say they talk some terrorist attack or some uber storm somewhere and you visit their national page and read the same as you just saw on you news! you will understand half of it allread and just fill in with the words you dont understand form a dictionary.

News is also best because every person will always find something in a news paper that is interesting, music, politics, foreign or national politics or whatever interests you

Trust me on this one, i have done it
You will find it so easy that its just unbelievable

Good luck

I am also intrested in learning some foreign language and i find this the most easiest and helpful,

thanks for sharing

Thanks
1 reply

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Waller Jamison 15 years ago

It's really important to get the pronunciation right and to learn at least basic grammar so that what you say makes sense. A good site for finding a native speaker to tutor you via Skype is verbalplanet.com. Prices vary, but often if the tutor is abroad eg China, they charge less than those in the UK or US.

Also depends on your learning style - some people learn better in a classroom and others like video and online interactive lessons. So you should try a few things to see which works best for you.

If you can download recordings, this is also good. You can listen to them repeatedly and you'll find that you gradually start to understand more and more. Search for French pod, Spanish pod or whatever language you want and you should be able to find some good audios.

You could also consider an exchange. I don't know what language you want to learn, but if there are students in your area who are native speakers and they want to learn English, you can meet up for an exchange,which has the advantage of being free.

Waller
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ReplyGenie

15 years ago

I would say, completely surround yourself with people who only speak that language... then you'd be just like a baby, learning how to talk again. You'd either learn or starve trying to order dinner LOL

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shnize

15 years ago

have you ever considered wyzant.com it is a website that allows you to find tutors and specialized teachers within a geographic region.

I suggested it to my father and it has worked great with his Espanol. However he still pronounces it like a foreigner. That is an ear thing. If you are good with music you will have a better time picking it up.

I have learned 3 languages and one of the best things to do is to stop thinking how do translate this and instead ask, how would I express this message. That way you begin to learn how to use the core of language, expression

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andrewharrison

15 years ago

Do what I did... Marry a hot-headed Mexican hottie. . . and you can't help but learn Spanish. Even if the first words you learn are NOT nice...

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John M Kane 15 years ago

Originally Posted by andrewharrison

Do what I did... Marry a hot-headed Mexican hottie. . . and you can't help but learn Spanish. Even if the first words you learn are NOT nice...

Too old.
What else you got?
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Lloyd Buchinski

15 years ago

The first thing I did that was more helpful than the classes at high
school, was listen to French vocal music. It didn't take long to find
4 singers that I really liked, and buy some of their stuff. Get the
printed version of the vocals and it takes about a day to know every
word in the song.

The second was to find a novel that was interesting. I found one
that had a brilliant beginning and the rest of it was pretty good too,
and by the time I got through that my vocabulary had soared. I do
want to understand every word when I'm reading. A speed reading
approach wouldn't work really well.

But I have to agree with a couple of other posters. There is a
massive amount of information to absorb learning a language, and
I'm not going to bother even trying unless I'm surrounded by people
speaking it every day.

best wishes, lloyd
.......__o
.......\<,
....( )/ ( )...

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maildigger

15 years ago

Live in a country where they speak the language for 2 months

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Gringo

15 years ago

I used and still do use Rossetta Stone the Army provides i to us for free its very nice and easy and covers writing reading but I would honestly say for me The way I learned Spanish was from being in Panama for 5 years and talking o everyone who knewno english. It forced me to learn and by havinga panamanian wife helped alot also

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andrewharrison

15 years ago

¿hola gringo, es frío para ti? Es muy frio en Edmoton. . . Que la chingada con la frio?

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Gringo

15 years ago

lol no es frio es 76 grados aqui en Sur California

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James12C

15 years ago

Hi - I had to learn Italian for a business venture - I used Michel Thomas which I really recommend for total beginners. Here in the UK there is also a resource called "Champs Elysees" which provides monthly cds/audio for French / Itala/nGerman/Spanish learners - more advanced but topical articles etc. I bought one or two other CDs for everyday phrases etc. Get a newpaper once a week. Then - just start talking!!!! Ecco - bene!

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artwebster

15 years ago

Learning a foreign language is fine and good - but what happens when you try to use the language and nobody can understand you?

The core language that is taught in books often bears little resemblance to what people actually say when they are talking to you. People from England will be aware of this if they move very often. Liverpudlians speak a unique English as do Brummies and east Enders and it isn't always easy to interpret their intentions because of local word usage outside of the definitions.

Apart from local idosyncracies, you also have the grammatical inexactitudes that are rampant within any language and colloquialisms so, to learn from a book is a good start, you can't beat living in an area where the language you want to learn is predominant.

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Audrey Harvey

15 years ago

I'm just about to explore this site with my kiddies - has online language lessons and you can hook up with a native speaker to practice. Might be interesting.

Language Learning with Livemocha | Learn a Language Online - Free!

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joshtheman

15 years ago

Learn the basics first and then read books or novels that use the language you want to study. After some months, you'll find yourself comfortable reading in their language. The next step is just practicing how you can speak their language well.

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house5180

14 years ago

The Rosetta Stone software uses a combination of images, text, and sound, with difficulty levels increasing as the student progresses, in order to teach various vocabulary terms and grammatical functions intuitively, without drills or translation. They call this the "Dynamic Immersion method". The goal is to teach languages the way first languages are learned. and hotdvdshop sell it with $139.07.

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seasoned

14 years ago

A lot of that is good advice, but personally I am not crazy about rosetta stone. AND, you CAN go to byki.com for some nice flashcard software. You can even learn a lot for free.

I ALMOST wish I had books in a number of languages when I was a kid. I still remember going through books and looking up unknown words with a dictionary. I wish I knew more about how the brain works in this regard though. One reason kids seem to learn so much faster is because they don't TRY to learn everything fast. 5 words a day is FAR easier to learn than 20, etc...

Steve

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jerichox 14 years ago

BYKI is much better than Rosetta. Similar digital flashcards to augment your vocabulary knowledge. Won't teach you how to converse.

To start learning a language, I wouldn't recommend either. I usually start with Pimsleur. I move onto Assimil books once I've exhausted Pimsleur. Then use the Internet to find radios, videos, etc. in the language and do that daily.
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netmomof2

14 years ago

Being bilingual myself I can tell you that the best way to learn any foreign language is to live among the people.

That is how I learned English.

I also work with English As A Second Language Students and can tell you from observing them, that the ones who learn the quickest English are the Asian and Creol students, because no one speaks their language so they are FORCED to learn English.

The spanish speaking students learn slower because they all hang out together speaking SPANISH!!

If you can't live in another country for 1-3 years, then join a CLUB that speaks the language you want to speak, create lots of friendships with people who speak that language and try to rent movies in that language.

But the most important part of it is SPEAKING IT.

The books can't teach you that.

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dolcevita 14 years ago

Grow up bilingual ,then learn other languages is easier.
Show TV or Videos of this language.
Read books of this language.
Have friends who speak that language.
Take a long vacation in a country where they speak the language and take language courses.Or live there.
But the most important is that you like to learn that languages.
I know people that are over 30 years in a other country and can not more as 20 word from that foreign county.
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Don Brigante

14 years ago

- Read books in a foreign language
- Watch movies with subtitles
- Speak a foreign language with your foreign friends
- Write letters or translate articles
- Listen to audio books

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GeorgettaSterling

14 years ago

First, as stated by a few above, the BEST method of learning a foreign language is to find a boyfriend/girlfriend whose native language is the one you are interested in. I cannot tell you how much motivation that will give you!

Visiting a country that speaks the language you are targeting and immersing yourself is the next best thing, but it is very stressful for some (like me, I feel embarrassed and vulnerable most of the time if I cannot understand those around me).

The various language learning courses are ok, but tend to be tedious, as are most classes.

One of the funnest things I saw was a cartoon-based approach, where the cartoon teaches you each word using some crazy pictures that will let you associate the word in some outrageous way. Your brain tends to easily remember really outrageous stuff. An example is here:
Learn Spanish 200 Words a Day!

Watching kid's cartoons in the target language is also a really fun way to learn.

Once you have picked up at least the basics, I really recommend finding pulp (tabloid) newspapers in that language. In English, it would be papers like the National Enquirer and Star. In German, it would be Die Bild-Zeitung. These are written at a really low level, with lots of pictures to keep you interested, and they are generally easy to understand. I was shocked at how quickly my German grammar and vocabulary built up after a couple of weeks of reading "Bild."

Eventually you will be able to tackle teen-level books, then pulp novels, and finally proper books in that language. While it is incredibly important to speak and hear the language, I find that reading is what really builds my comprehension, vocabulary and grammar.

And I agree wholeheartedly with Dolcevita that DESIRE is the key to being able to learn. I spent 3 years taking compulsory French classes in Junior High and never got far beyond "Je m'appelle Georgia, comment ca va?" I didn't care to learn the language, which I regret nowadays.

Good luck!

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JustinDupre

14 years ago

Get a girlfriend who can speaks the foreign language

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vahn

14 years ago

go and stay to the country with main language of language we want to learn :p

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secretlam

Banned 14 years ago

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dolcevita 14 years ago

I forgot one.
Try to think in the language.
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ivanadee

14 years ago

I am not a kind of person who can learn language directly from books and can practice it. So, as my suggestion, just take a short course or follow homestay program

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gbolz

14 years ago

I've been thinking of learning German myself as my wife speaks the language. I always feel left out when she's conversion with her mum in german. So i have also been thinking of getting the Rosetta Stone software. Thanks for the great tips here.

Thanks
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ledbeauty 14 years ago

Practise of course. Practice makes perfect!
Just open your mouth and speak it out loudly!
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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by gbolz

I've been thinking of learning German myself as my wife speaks the language. I always feel left out when she's conversion with her mum in german. So i have also been thinking of getting the Rosetta Stone software. Thanks for the great tips here.

Well, with german ESPECIALLY, you might want to get some good book on grammar. There are several ways to structure a german sentence, verbs can be split, there is declension, etc.....

Learning german versus english can seem like lisp versus basic!

BASIC Print a+b+c
LISP (. (+ (+ a b) c))

As I recall that is how lisp is, it HAS been about 29 years since I have really used it. But seriously, english and german can look that different.

Steve

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1 reply

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pickthat apple 14 years ago

I would say: it very much depends from
1) who wants to learn it
2) for what purpose
3) how much time is available

I was so passionate about languages when I was a teenager that any book or course or dictionary I could lay my hands on I would read it.
There was no internet around at the time...
I am very much in favour of the audio courses from a reputable source, because the pronunciation is bound to be perfect and for those who can be bothered to listen to the same sentence again and again, you can be sure that it will never leave your brain...
They may not all be sentences that you will make use of, but they will give you confidence.
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Rezbi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by James Legacy

I heard a commercial recently for "Rosetta Stone" -- a piece of foreign language software that is supposedly used by the U.S. Army.

Anyway, it got me thinking: What's the best way to learn a foreign language?

Does anyone know of any good tools for doing this?

(Also, if you could please refrain from your "move to a foreign country" responses, that would be fantastic).

The best I've ever seen is the Michel Thomas series.

I was driving a lot to France so decided I needed to the learn the language.

I stuck the CD as I was driving there in the morning and, by the afternoon, I was talking with one of the locals.

When I told him I'd learned what I was speaking only that morning he was surprised.

Thanks
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jerichox

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

The best I've ever seen is the Michel Thomas series.

I was driving a lot to France so decided I needed to the learn the language.

I stuck the CD as I was driving there in the morning and, by the afternoon, I was talking with one of the locals.

When I told him I'd learned what I was speaking only that morning he was surprised.

if you like Michel Thomas' method then you will LOVE Pimsleur. Very similar methods except with Pimsleur you learn to speak with a correct accent. It's just odd to learn French from someone speaking French with a Polish accent. Michel Thomas was Polish...

Pimsleur also goes much deeper into your studies. Their complete French course is something like 50 hours long and much more comprehensive than Michel Thomas.

Thanks
2 replies

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Rezbi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by jerichox

if you like Michel Thomas' method then you will LOVE Pimsleur. Very similar methods except with Pimsleur you learn to speak with a correct accent. It's just odd to learn French from someone speaking French with a Polish accent. Michel Thomas was Polish...

Pimsleur also goes much deeper into your studies. Their complete French course is something like 50 hours long and much more comprehensive than Michel Thomas.

I've tried Pimsleur. Don't like it.

Each to their own, I suppose.

Thanks

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by jerichox

if you like Michel Thomas' method then you will LOVE Pimsleur. Very similar methods except with Pimsleur you learn to speak with a correct accent. It's just odd to learn French from someone speaking French with a Polish accent. Michel Thomas was Polish...

Pimsleur also goes much deeper into your studies. Their complete French course is something like 50 hours long and much more comprehensive than Michel Thomas.

I have YET to see a pimsleur course that is like Michel Thomas. Admittedly, I believe I only listened to the german version, but Nationality doesn't really determine accent. As I recall, Michael Thomas sounded decent with German. Berlitz, by comparison, doesn't speak german or, I guess, Spanish, very well! I read their Ingles book and, if I spoke like a spanish person, and followed their Ingles book, I would speak English with a HEAVY "spanish" accent. NOT because I was spanish, but because THAT is how they SAID to do it!

Steve

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sarahberra

14 years ago

I think the best way is to learn from someone who actually speaks the language like a teacher. I think Rosetta stone is the next best option.

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Rezbi 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sarahberra

I think the best way is to learn from someone who actually speaks the language like a teacher. I think Rosetta stone is the next best option.

I've tried Rosetta Stone and Pimsleur.

Believe me, Michel Thomas beats them hands down.
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jerichox 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sarahberra

I think the best way is to learn from someone who actually speaks the language like a teacher. I think Rosetta stone is the next best option.

Why do you think that?
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Edk 14 years ago

The best ideas I've come across are by Tim Ferriss in his book The 4 Hour Work Week. There's a very good chance he tells you about his method on his website also
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Lawrh

14 years ago

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thaismr

14 years ago

I know a great site I love is livemocha .com

Definately not the ultimate place to learn a foreign language, has only the basic lessons, but has a great community where you can find natives to chat and skype with.

You can send your learning exercises in audio or writen format, and listen to natives giving you personal tips in writen or audio format.

Should complement and be complemented by other courses more advanced, but it's so much fun.

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jersica

Banned 14 years ago

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jersica Banned 14 years ago

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lovesbmw

14 years ago

The author makes some great points in it about managing your time, especially email. In fact, a large chunk of the book is about time management. He also provides actionable how-tos on how to find the help to outsource so you have more free time.

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antiquenh

14 years ago

The best way to learn a foreign language is to attend a foreign language class.

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seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by antiquenh

The best way to learn a foreign language is to attend a foreign language class.

Actually, that is usually the WORST!
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ministerof

14 years ago

Hmm ..

Translate everything you find from YOUR language to the language you want to learn.

SPEAK that language. Don't worry about mistakes, and tell people to report your mistakes. Knowing our mistakes helps

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healthconverter

14 years ago

Haha, one of the guys here has a linguistics degree. Apparently, there's a difference between acquiring and learning a foreign language. If you learn it while you're young the brain receives it much more quickly. It's the same way you learn your first language. Around 9-10 years old, that dwindles and you end up learning a language. Best way to do it is to find an intensive class that keeps a "total immersion" environment, meaning no English is spoken, just the target language. That's how I learned German. Spending years in a Saturday morning German class, and then going to Austria to study at the University of Vienna.

Aside from that, when you've got some of the language under your belt, pick up a good foreign language dictionary and a newspaper or book in the target language.

Good luck!

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by healthconverter

Haha, one of the guys here has a linguistics degree. Apparently, there's a difference between acquiring and learning a foreign language. If you learn it while you're young the brain receives it much more quickly. It's the same way you learn your first language. Around 9-10 years old, that dwindles and you end up learning a language. Best way to do it is to find an intensive class that keeps a "total immersion" environment, meaning no English is spoken, just the target language. That's how I learned German. Spending years in a Saturday morning German class, and then going to Austria to study at the University of Vienna.

Aside from that, when you've got some of the language under your belt, pick up a good foreign language dictionary and a newspaper or book in the target language.

Good luck!

Yep, but immersion REALLY ends up being effectively a mix of everything suggested. And babies apparently somehow spot a pattern in some things, learn the basic concept an vocabulary, and it can then take off. The take off part is through immersion. It's been proven that people that learn two languages at once, even in the beginning, only progress half as fast in either.

Steve

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healthconverter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Yep, but immersion REALLY ends up being effectively a mix of everything suggested. And babies apparently somehow spot a pattern in some things, learn the basic concept an vocabulary, and it can then take off. The take off part is through immersion. It's been proven that people that learn two languages at once, even in the beginning, only progress half as fast in either.

Steve

Sorry to sound like a pain, but could you state your source? I'd like to see the numbers and nitpick the data and email the scientists that conducted that study, harassing them with quotes from Chomsky's review of BF Skinner's books.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by healthconverter

Sorry to sound like a pain, but could you state your source? I'd like to see the numbers and nitpick the data and email the scientists that conducted that study, harassing them with quotes from Chomsky's review of BF Skinner's books.

What is your concern? Is it that people tend to learn at the same rate regardless, so twice the languages means half the vocabulary of each? I mean all the other stuff is relatively obvious anyway and the full mechanism obviously isn't understood. I have EVEN heard that some say that babies have a part of the brain dedicated to picking out sounds and somehow detecting the patterns that often disappears later. I doubt that it dissappears though because people can learn to do quite well later.

Anyway, if it is about vocabulary acquisition, I have heard that from several sources over my life. Heck, most of my vocabulary was gleaned by context, example, questions, dictionaries, etc... NOT by some magical pattern detection. Granted the basic vocabulary of maybe several thousand words WAS via other means. Most feel THAT is ALSO by context and example. HECK, a lot of verbs and the like are used because of the context in which they are learned. There is obvious proof of that, I have experienced it myself, and I have heard scientists discuss it. When I heard a teacher say that "to be" was the most commonly used verb, I thought she was NUTS! I couldn't remember the last time I used that verb. I really didn't think about the fact that is, was, were, am, etc... were forms of to be, yet I used them correctly. Tell the truth, did YOU really concentrate on tense before you learned about conjugation?

As for the debate as to whether there is a L.A.D, or the baby is somehow half consciously learning? Who cares!?!? The end result is the same.

One thing is for sure. The basic language is NOT inate because a white person born in the U.S. to ENGLISH speaking American parents can be brought up in China speaking PERFECT chinese and vice versa and there is essentially NOTHING in common. If they then go back to the U.S., they will likely have similar problems learning english as the asian will have learning chinese. GRANTED, they may have an easier time because they don't have to worry about tone so much but, OTHERWISE...

If there were an inate rudimentary language, this wouldn't be true, and languages would be similar. Languages show a pattern based on geography and conquest and NOT on the people.

Steve

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healthconverter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

What is your concern? Is it that people tend to learn at the same rate regardless, so twice the languages means half the vocabulary of each? I mean all the other stuff is relatively obvious anyway and the full mechanism obviously isn't understood. I have EVEN heard that some say that babies have a part of the brain dedicated to picking out sounds and somehow detecting the patterns that often disappears later. I doubt that it dissappears though because people can learn to do quite well later.

Anyway, if it is about vocabulary acquisition, I have heard that from several sources over my life. Heck, most of my vocabulary was gleaned by context, example, questions, dictionaries, etc... NOT by some magical pattern detection. Granted the basic vocabulary of maybe several thousand words WAS via other means. Most feel THAT is ALSO by context and example. HECK, a lot of verbs and the like are used because of the context in which they are learned. There is obvious proof of that, I have experienced it myself, and I have heard scientists discuss it. When I heard a teacher say that "to be" was the most commonly used verb, I thought she was NUTS! I couldn't remember the last time I used that verb. I really didn't think about the fact that is, was, were, am, etc... were forms of to be, yet I used them correctly. Tell the truth, did YOU really concentrate on tense before you learned about conjugation?

As for the debate as to whether there is a L.A.D, or the baby is somehow half consciously learning? Who cares!?!? The end result is the same.

One thing is for sure. The basic language is NOT inate because a white person born in the U.S. to ENGLISH speaking American parents can be brought up in China speaking PERFECT chinese and vice versa and there is essentially NOTHING in common. If they then go back to the U.S., they will likely have similar problems learning english as the asian will have learning chinese. GRANTED, they may have an easier time because they don't have to worry about tone so much but, OTHERWISE...

If there were an inate rudimentary language, this wouldn't be true, and languages would be similar. Languages show a pattern based on geography and conquest and NOT on the people.

Steve

I'd rather not flame, especially over an academic subject. But vocab is only half the battle. Children develop so much more than just vocabulary, and, IMHO the more important part of language at a young age. And it's because of an innate part of our brains that evolved far beyond even the monkeys that we came from. It's the syntactic structures in our brains that is innate, not the vocabulary. Vocabulary is learned from dictionaries, context, examples, yes, but grammatical structures, even in non-standard social and regional dialects are developed at a very young age.

Yes, historically, languages are developed by geography, conquest, and so on and so forth, but that's really only the vocabulary that changes, not the underlying structures.

Like I said, I'd rather not have a flame war over something so academic on a marketing forum. This is all very theoretical, and theories differ from person to person; while you have your sources, I have mine, and we all can live happily ever after. The end.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by healthconverter

I'd rather not flame, especially over an academic subject. But vocab is only half the battle. Children develop so much more than just vocabulary, and, IMHO the more important part of language at a young age. And it's because of an innate part of our brains that evolved far beyond even the monkeys that we came from. It's the syntactic structures in our brains that is innate, not the vocabulary. Vocabulary is learned from dictionaries, context, examples, yes, but grammatical structures, even in non-standard social and regional dialects are developed at a very young age.

Yes, historically, languages are developed by geography, conquest, and so on and so forth, but that's really only the vocabulary that changes, not the underlying structures.

Like I said, I'd rather not have a flame war over something so academic on a marketing forum. This is all very theoretical, and theories differ from person to person; while you have your sources, I have mine, and we all can live happily ever after. The end.

I wasn't flaming. As for the vocabulary changing, some ideas are unique to languages like chinese. Some are unique for indian and Arabic. Did you know, for example, that the first person conjugation in indian and arabic convey GENDER! A man and a woman would use different words! And look at how the french change spelling, pronounciation, and handle negation! So a LOT changes besides vocabulary. OK, maybe in a lot of european languages vocabulary is almost 100%, but certainly not all. Heck, in GERMAN there is the idea of declension. Many, perhaps all, don't get it all right. But some sentences can change meaning if you get it wrong. And the word order in german can be very different.

AGAIN, I am not flaming, or asking for it. It is an honest discussion, as far as I am concerned.

Steve

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MichaelF

14 years ago

After spending a ton of time reading up on this question about a year ago,
the consensus I came up with is:

1. Immersion in the country whose language you want to learn is best.
2. Pimsleur courses are well done, and Rosetta stone are so so. Rosetta
Stone attracts people because of the software, but it's not that
important for most people.
3. Don't just read your course materials, online newspapers were frequently mentioned
as a great supplemental resource.
4. Foreign movies are great for contextual conversations.
5. Foreign forums are great for learning everyday lingo.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Mike that is a nice summary. You only mentioned rosetta stone when there are several contenders like BYKI, TELLMEMORE, and ROCKET, or memory lifter, though they are probably at LEAST on a par with rosetta stone, and you didn't mention reading books with dictionaries at hand, but I guess we can nitpick all day.

Steve

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antiquenh

14 years ago

I believe practice makes perfect. Try to use the language as often to your classmate who take the same linguistics with you.

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senojetan

14 years ago

for Spanish I have be leaning form http://www.spanishdict.com/ its free with videos, flash cards, and all kinds of resources.

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by James Legacy

I heard a commercial recently for "Rosetta Stone" -- a piece of foreign language software that is supposedly used by the U.S. Army.

Anyway, it got me thinking: What's the best way to learn a foreign language?

Does anyone know of any good tools for doing this?

(Also, if you could please refrain from your "move to a foreign country" responses, that would be fantastic).

I'm not quite sure how I learned Chinese. I just remember it involved a lot of beer, Chinese actresses, and borderline gangsters.

But, seriously, it really does depend on the language. Learning Chinese is very different from learning, say, Spanish. I even believe the brain functions differently with different languages, since languages are an interpretation of reality with cultural context thrown in (in English all sorts of expressions come from the Bible and William Shakespeare's plays).

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TheGrizby

14 years ago

There are alot of ways you can get started in learning a second language:

You might be a more hands on person so a tutored approach would be advisable
you might not have alot of money so free methods would be appropriate
you might want to learn at your convenience in your own home

Whatever your situation is your priority is to get started NOW!

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Firstrate

14 years ago

Total immersion is your best bet! I just moved to Columbia to study Spanish and picked it up really fast.... I learn 2 hours a day and am then forced to speak it all the time.

Failing that, I would recommend Pimsleur courses and Language Learning with Livemocha | Learn a Language Online - Free!

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nigrilaforever

14 years ago

The best way to learn any language is to live in that country for at least one year. I'm sure that after this you will learn it very well

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careybaird 14 years ago

Originally Posted by nigrilaforever

The best way to learn any language is to live in that country for at least one year. I'm sure that after this you will learn it very well

Spot on! My girlfriend is half italian but always speaks to me in English So I am going to live in Milan for a while instead!
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thunderbird 14 years ago

Originally Posted by nigrilaforever

The best way to learn any language is to live in that country for at least one year. I'm sure that after this you will learn it very well

You can make a lot of progress practicing a language in your own country with a couple of people willing to converse with you on a regular basis. Going to the other country is the best option, but even there one will usually only have a few friends anyway with whom they can have more far reaching conversations. Otherwise, conversation tends to be, "Do you like Italy?" (Or China, Spain, whatever), "Do you like the food here?," and "Where are you from?"
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