Should US Car Makers be Bailed Out?

15 years ago

I don't think so. Both GM and Ford had so many chances to make our lives better, to make the planet better... but they have decided to keep making those V8 engines and big useless trucks - well, maybe it's time for them yo leave this world.

I only feel bad for the employees who will lose their jobs

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clint48 15 years ago

I am not sure how I feel about bailing them out, but if we don't bail them out we will have another 2 million people looking for a job and that is going to mean some tough times ahead for the U.S. I mean real tough!

Clint
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Mike Wright

15 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

There is a push by the Democrats to bail out GM and Ford. What are your thoughts on this?

Can you just take UK's example where car manufacturing is still strong and most of it is owned and run by foreign companies.

Is the car industry so critical that it must be bailed out at all costs? What would be the other critical industries. Boeing would come to mind but what about Intel, or even Microsoft or Google down the line?

The UK car industry is tanking .... possibly more than housing.
New, used, suppliers, aftermarket ....its all grinding to a halt.

One particular Chrysler new model was being sold at a distributorship
on a "Buy one Get one Free" (BOGOF) .... previously unheard of!!!
Another manufacturer is shutting down for a month around Xmas.
Others have announced shorter layoffs. Probably a million brand new
unsold car stock sitting around in fields in the UK. Used car values
have plummetted .... with gas guzzling hi-end motors the worst hit.
The only cars selling reasonably are those with small engines and
good urban miles per gallon.

Great time to snag a bargain for little money .... suicide to
buy a big ticket car unless you can afford to drop £10>25K
as soon as you drive it out of the showroom.

Similar tales across Europe. Bailing out the industry would
keep a lot of people in employment ....but would not make
consumers rush out to buy again any time soon. Thats the
big quandry????

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zenbuddhist

15 years ago

We can bail out Wall Street banks and insurance companies. I agree that the Big 3 are in the position they are because of their own doing. If they fail, however, many millions of jobs will be lost. I would hate to see that happen. I would also hate to see the Big 3 get a huge cash infusion so that they can keep supplying benefits to employees, both working and retired. That is really not our problem. GM, Ford & Chrysler have pandered to the unions and employees so much that they have set themselves up to fail. And that is just plain wrong in my opinion, when they come with hand out to the Fed. Let them eat cake...

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Clyde Dennis

15 years ago

Caught Ted Turner (CNN, TBS, etc...) on Letterman the other night and thought he said something really profound. He said we're going to have to get used to living differently. The current finance and financial situations and conditions are going to change things in ways most people have yet to even consider.

I'm thinking a lot of the so called giants of American Industry are on their way out. Ford and GM may just be a couple of them.

I like to listening to folks like Ted Turner because I understand you don't get to be 'Ted Turner' by not knowing what you're talking about.

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acreativetouch

15 years ago

Our government is bailing out everyone (or considering to do so) except for the American people enslaved by debt---student loans, mortgages, car loans, etc. WE are the ones who should be bailed out, then we can pay our lenders back.

dorothy

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mbealmear

15 years ago

Originally Posted by acreativetouch

Our government is bailing out everyone (or considering to do so) except for the American people enslaved by debt---student loans, mortgages, car loans, etc. WE are the ones who should be bailed out, then we can pay our lenders back.

dorothy

I agree completely!!! I got an email a few months back that lays out a plan I am not sure who wrote it but he did well i think!

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a Stimulus Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
Stimulus Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 3 0%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved. Make mortgage payoff mandatory.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out
a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate. < BR>Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned
instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

Birk

T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic

PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it's either good for a laugh
or a tear or a very sobering thought on how to best use $85 Billion!!

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Kurt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mbealmear

I agree completely!!! I got an email a few months back that lays out a plan I am not sure who wrote it but he did well i think!

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a Stimulus Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

I think your math is incorrect.

$85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425

As far as bailing out the auto industry...It should come out of our military budget.The military should help pay because we will need the big auto makers in case of war.

We need to know that 1 out of every 9 jobs in the USA is in some way related to the auto industry.

If we don't bail them out, all those jobs will go overseas, and just as bad, we'll be importing even more stuff, increasing our trade imbalance forever.

We also need LOTS of conditions, like the cars must meet certain energy requirements/alternative fuel etc. This is the second time big auto has gotten in trouble for the same reason: Lack of energy efficient cars. Same thing happened in the 70s.

I would rather pay big auto to retool for natural gas and other alternative energy cars than keep sending the same money overseas for Middle Eastern oil.

If big auto can speed up alternative energy cars, we'll easily save the money in energy costs we send overseas in the next decade.

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mbealmear 15 years ago

"I think your math is incorrect.

$85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425"

Like I said....I got this message in an email....I didnt come up with.
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- myob 15 years ago
  
  Meanwhile ... Honda has been steadily investing in new manufacturing and assembly plants all across the US for years. They are not asking for any help or bailout. Just building cars that people buy. They have no competition from US manufacturers.
  
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ShayB

15 years ago

Originally Posted by acreativetouch

Our government is bailing out everyone (or considering to do so) except for the American people enslaved by debt---student loans, mortgages, car loans, etc. WE are the ones who should be bailed out, then we can pay our lenders back.

dorothy

If this post is a joke, I apologize in advance.

If not, this is my answer:

Bail out the people "enslaved by debt"? Are you kidding me?

Too bad. No one makes a person take on that much debt. You sign on the dotted line, then you pay for it. Not me.

Try some personal responsibility on for size.

*groan* I need some aspirin....

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Ken Strong 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Shay60654

You sign on the dotted line, then you pay for it. Not me.

Try some personal responsibility on for size.

Good point, but let's try putting in a different way...

Instead of using our tax dollars that we worked hard to earn and that the govt takes through coercion and bailing out irresponsible banks and other corporations...

How about returning our money to us... and those that have debts can use that money to pay off those debts... instead of us paying off their (banks' and corporations') debts (since we're speaking, quite rightly, of personal responsibility)...
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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Shay60654

If this post is a joke, I apologize in advance.

If not, this is my answer:

Bail out the people "enslaved by debt"? Are you kidding me?

Too bad. No one makes a person take on that much debt. You sign on the dotted line, then you pay for it. Not me.

Try some personal responsibility on for size.

*groan* I need some aspirin....

Shay,

I agree with you for the most part, but some of the prcatices are VERY shady. The biggest example is what's known as Universal Default.

Let's say I have 3 credit cards, I pay cards A and B on time, every time. My rate is 9% and it is very manageable. I also pay card C on time, but 1 month I make my online payment on the due date and it doesn't post until tomorrow. Company C I missed a payment and has to charge me a late fee (even though I paid on time), and raise my rate.

Okay, maybe it is my fault for thinking paying online would go through rigt away. BUT, because Company C has raised my rates, Company A and B now say I am a higher risk and decide to raise my rates on those cards as well. Even though I paid them both on time, EVERY time.

That's the kind of thing they should be held accountable for. That's the kind of thing that can be in the small print, but you don't always know when it's going to kick in.

We shouldn't bail ANYBODY out who was irresponsible or shortsigthed, but if the card companies are going to engage in highway robbery they shouldn't be able to get away with that either.

~Michael

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ShayB

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Shay,

I agree with you for the most part, but some of the prcatices are VERY shady. The biggest example is what's known as Universal Default.

Let's say I have 3 credit cards, I pay cards A and B on time, every time. My rate is 9% and it is very manageable. I also pay card C on time, but 1 month I make my online payment on the due date and it doesn't post until tomorrow. Company C I missed a payment and has to charge me a late fee (even though I paid on time), and raise my rate.

Okay, maybe it is my fault for thinking paying online would go through rigt away. BUT, because Company C has raised my rates, Company A and B now say I am a higher risk and decide to raise my rates on those cards as well. Even though I paid them both on time, EVERY time.

That's the kind of thing they should be held accountable for. That's the kind of thing that can be in the small print, but you don't always know when it's going to kick in.

We shouldn't bail ANYBODY out who was irresponsible or shortsigthed, but if the card companies are going to engage in highway robbery they shouldn't be able to get away with that either.

~Michael

I understand what you are saying, but if it is "in the fine print," then you (general "you") signed on the dotted line. You may not know when or if it will kick in, but that is a risk you take, IMHO. No innocent victim here.

To me, having 3 credit cards is crazy. :confused: That is the root of the problem, not the terms of the credit cards, IMHO.

America just can't keep living off of credit. They just can't. Something has to give, and I believe we are seeing that happen.

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echievements 15 years ago

This article:

"GM Collapse at $200 Billion Would Exceed Bailout Tab, Firm Says"
By Alex Ortolani and Mike Ramsey will get you thinking. The collapse matrix would be pandemic.

Search for the article on Bloomberg.com
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Christie Love

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Shay,

I agree with you for the most part, but some of the prcatices are VERY shady. The biggest example is what's known as Universal Default.

Let's say I have 3 credit cards, I pay cards A and B on time, every time. My rate is 9% and it is very manageable. I also pay card C on time, but 1 month I make my online payment on the due date and it doesn't post until tomorrow. Company C I missed a payment and has to charge me a late fee (even though I paid on time), and raise my rate.

Okay, maybe it is my fault for thinking paying online would go through rigt away. BUT, because Company C has raised my rates, Company A and B now say I am a higher risk and decide to raise my rates on those cards as well. Even though I paid them both on time, EVERY time.

That's the kind of thing they should be held accountable for. That's the kind of thing that can be in the small print, but you don't always know when it's going to kick in.

We shouldn't bail ANYBODY out who was irresponsible or shortsigthed, but if the card companies are going to engage in highway robbery they shouldn't be able to get away with that either.

~Michael

Shay, sometimes we are so quick to be judgmental. Now, let's say, you became ill and lost your job. You have to pay your bills and eat. To do so, you had to resort to getting credit cards to help you survive because the insurance company is not paying you for your time off for some lame reason even if you've never missed a payment.

Or... you've got a business loan and business credit to follow your dream of becoming an entrepreneur in a field that resonates with your passion. Unfortunately, your plan doesn't go quite as expected and you end up losing more money than you invested.

Or, let's say you start college, with the expectation your parents were going to pay for your full ride. I mean, that's what they told you all your life. You get your degree, with honors and your parents tell you they'd rather spend the money on a $150,000 car.

Everyone who signs on the dotted line does not do with the intention of a bail out. Stuff happens. We are all human. So, please take time to think about everyone's situation (the good and bad) before making such statements.

I don't agree that billions of tax payer dollars should have just been given to companies without any restrictions and procedures to handle the money. How dumb can you get. Now, we have to deal with these companies paying thousands of dollars for a trash can, millions of dollars to decorate an office and more millions on private jets and parties instead of helping people get their homes back and helping them get back on track with their finances and creating more jobs.

I'm originally from Detroit, MI (the motor city). It saddens me that every last one of my family members are out of a job. The only employment they've known since my granddaddy was a boy is going to grade school and getting a job at one of the factories. Now, that's gone. The only rising economy in that city is drug dealing. My family can't even leave their home. The crime rate has gotten so bad. Everyone is stealing from everyone because people are hungry and can't afford to feed themselves or their family.

Most of my family members have never stepped foot outside of Michigan. It's sad to know that most of them think the world's actually coming to an end because all they see on the news is death, destruction, and unemployment due to the automobile manufacturers going out of business.

I could ramble on and on about this.

If they do bail out the auto manufacturers, they should have a team of people managing where every single penny goes.

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aksledding 15 years ago

Well, I hope your family gets though this.

Originally Posted by Christie Love

If they do bail out the auto manufacturers, they should have a team of people managing where every single penny goes.

I agree, there has to be accountability, or the same mistakes will be made again. I really hope that our new president follows through too with he said about having the government's finances being transparent -- we know by now that the alternative does not work.
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ShayB

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Christie Love

Shay, sometimes we are so quick to be judgmental. Now, let's say, you became ill and lost your job. You have to pay your bills and eat. To do so, you had to resort to getting credit cards to help you survive because the insurance company is not paying you for your time off for some lame reason even if you've never missed a payment.

Or... you've got a business loan and business credit to follow your dream of becoming an entrepreneur in a field that resonates with your passion. Unfortunately, your plan doesn't go quite as expected and you end up losing more money than you invested.

Or, let's say you start college, with the expectation your parents were going to pay for your full ride. I mean, that's what they told you all your life. You get your degree, with honors and your parents tell you they'd rather spend the money on a $150,000 car.

Everyone who signs on the dotted line does not do with the intention of a bail out. Stuff happens. We are all human. So, please take time to think about everyone's situation (the good and bad) before making such statements.

But this is exactly my point.

Stuff happens. No one is guaranteed a job from one day to the next. No one is guaranteed that people will keep their word.

When you do something like that, you gamble - just as surely as if you put your paycheck on a Roulette table.

Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. That is life. Life isn't fair.

Are there dire situations where the people involved are blameless? Sure. It happens.

But more often than not, people are spending more than they make and then caught off-guard when something unexpected happens.

No emergency fund, nothing to fall back on.

I am reading a book right now called "Debt-Proof Your Kids" by Mary Hunt. Years ago I read some other books by her about debt, and they were very informative and eye-opening.

Another book is "The Automatic Millionaire" and I cannot remember the author.

They both preach the same thing (basically) -

Save 10% of your income.
Give 10% of your income away (charity, church, etc.)
Live on the rest.

Now, before everyone starts saying, "But what about the single moms?" "What about the...." - don't go there. Just think about your own situation, not everyone else.

If everyone in this country did this (heck, not even everyone), the country would be in a much better situation.

Think about it.

Not only would it stop people from living paycheck to paycheck, but for the ones who really, truly DID need help - their friends and neighbors would have the means to help them.

I am not being judgemental - I am being practical. No one forces a person to take on debt. It just doesn't happen. It is a choice.

You don't HAVE to live in a $500,000 home. You don't HAVE to drive a new car.

Car loans might be a need for someone. I can see that, but it doesn't mean you have to keep car debt forever. Buy a new car. Pay it off. Maintain it, and put the money you hade been paying each month for a car payment into a New Car account. Guess what? The next car can be paid for in cash.

Need a home loan? Fine. Buy a home you KNOW you can afford - even if you lost your job and had to take a lower-paying one. Pay it off quickly. Put the money you had been paying for your house into an account and save up for a new house. You can even put a big down payment on a new house and rent out the old one - so you get a positive cash flow each month.

No one knows what is going to happen. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

I am not heartless. I am just really tired of hearing about bailouts and people not paying mortgages for months and months and then acting upset and defensive when the evil mortgage company forecloses on them.

My husband is able to work for now. Most days. But we don't know how long it will last.

So, we made choices when he got a new job (one that paid much better).

We moved into a smaller, less expensive house.
We cut back on other expenses.
We started to look into other ways to bring in money so that we could survive if Hubby could not work.

We will be debt-free in less than 6 months - house, cars, everything.

Hubby just got a raise. We will not be changing our habits - that extra money will go into savings.

We can't keep bailing everyone out. Sooner or later the money will run out.

JMHO

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ShayB 15 years ago

One more note -

I am working on finishing up my Bachelor's Degree. (For various reasons, not the least of which is that if some nut in government decides to require a Bachelor's Degree in order to homeschool, I want to be ready, but anyway....)

There are ways to get an education without going into massive debt. Heck, there are ways to do it without any debt (which is the way we are doing it).

We had been preparing for my going back to school for 2 years.

We are already planning for the kids to go to college. (Remember, we have 4 kiddos - all going to college.)

If you go into it with the intention of not going into debt, you can do it. It just takes a lot of planning.
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- Kay King 15 years ago
  
  Back to auto bailouts - you folks are a couple months late - it's already been done.
  
  Now what? Auto layoffs, what else? GM has already announced the first wave.
  
  And - a couple hours ago - the House voted for another $825 billion stimulus plan (wasn't that what the 700 billion was for? how much of that is really left?). I cannot believe such a fast vote on a bill that is over 600 pages. The tax rebate, if it survives, will include those who don't pay income taxes...as it did last year.
  
  No one knows if a huge stimulus will work but it will be pushed through fast before it can be scrutinized line by line. I'm really afraid that we're throwing money in a very deep pit. And 70k more jobs lost this week...so far.
  
  I think those in charge mean well but I'm not convinced that anyone - including economists - know what to do. Meanwhile the debt is growing by billions daily, it seems.
  
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acreativetouch

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ShayRockhold

If this post is a joke, I apologize in advance.

If not, this is my answer:

Bail out the people "enslaved by debt"? Are you kidding me?

Too bad. No one makes a person take on that much debt. You sign on the dotted line, then you pay for it. Not me.

Try some personal responsibility on for size.

*groan* I need some aspirin....

Yes, we sign on the dotted line. Very few can afford an education. Many avoid the car loan trap by purchasing used vehicles. A house? Do you have $500,000+ on hand to buy one in cash? Some do. Most don't. In order to "have" in this country it takes two things: 1) a very good job and b) wise use of debt which will take most of our lives to pay back. So, you stay out of the debt trap and remain virtually uneducated, renting, and driving a used car. Or you win the lottery, inherit from a rich uncle, make a bunch on money on internet marketing, or take out loans.

I hate the loan based economy. But that is exactly what we have: if you want anything...either you are independently wealthy or you borrow from those who are.

No joke, just an observation.

dorothy

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Nobody should have been bailed out!

We have been sold out to the greediest scum on the planet! And they still expect their multi-million dollar bonuses. I'd say what I really think, but the forum has a built-in language filter.

They should all be brought up on charges for defrauding the American public; not rewarded for it.

Bail out Wall Street? Oops! Better bail out American Express, and the car makers, and the TV stations (hey, ad revenues ARE falling), and the radio staions, and the carpet makers, and the construction companies - Heck, let's give everybody what they want...UNLESS they worked hard and practiced good business.

~Michael

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LavelleC

15 years ago

There's bigger questions to be asked than, "to bailout
or not to bailout".

And that is:

When will the Government stop making
policy that hurts American companies and
helping foreign companies?

--

When will the Government butt-out and
let the FREE MARKET work?

--

When will the Government stop taxing the hell
out of AMERICAN JOB-CREATORS?

--

When will the Government stop considering
this ridiculous crap-and-trade policy?

--

So yeah, in reality WE MUST bail them out because of the
incredible number of people that would be out of a job if
they went under. The Government created a problem so
HUGE that they have to either print more money, borrow
more money, or take it from us.

Still want BIG GOVERNMENT and Nationalized Health Care?

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TimPhelan 15 years ago

Originally Posted by LavelleC

When will the Government butt-out and
let the FREE MARKET work?

Seems the problem is big business doesn't know what the hell they are doing and need MORE regulation. Not less. Ronny Reagan was wrong. FREE MARKET? We are seeing the results of the free market now. LOL.
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LavelleC

15 years ago

Still ranting...

Suppose the Federal Government decides to regulate
the Internet and started taxing online transactions like
they've been talking about.

What happens when online sales plummet? Will we bail
out Google or Microsoft and give the Government a huge
stake in those companies too?

Ever tried surfing the web in a China Internet Cafe?

Sure it seems ridiculous. But the effects of incremental-ism
hits you like a ton of bricks after you've realized it's too late
to turn back.

Big Gov -> Gov Regulations -> Gov Policies -> Failed Industry -> Gov Bailout -> Gov Control of choices we like to make freely.

Wake up folks.

Lavelle C

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

The problem is too many of us are awake, but it's falling on deaf ears.

That's why I voted for a third party candidate.

~Michael

p.s. My humblest and sincerest apologies to any hearing impaired people for comparing them to politicians. It was the only cliche that came to mind.

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LavelleC

15 years ago

Seems the problem is big business doesn't know what the hell they are doing and need MORE regulation. Not less.

So what has the Government ever fixed? What the
hell qualifies the Government to even run a lemonade
stand?

Ronny Reagan was wrong. FREE MARKET? We are seeing the results of the free market now. LOL.

What we're seeing is largely due to increased Government
regulations, bad trade policy, and restrictive legislation
(namely from the left side of the aisle).

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Kurt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by LavelleC

So what has the Government ever fixed? What the
hell qualifies the Government to even run a lemonade
stand?

What we're seeing is largely due to increased Government
regulations, bad trade policy, and restrictive legislation
(namely from the left side of the aisle).

1. The Chrysler bailout. The country made a profit from that loan, instead of losing billions. Remember Lee Iococa paying off the loan years in advance?

And as echievement posted above...If we don't bail out the auto industry, not only will we have to pay out unemployment tax, we'll lose income tax from the laid off workers. I suggest you do the math, as this country can't afford to lose billions and billions over "the point of the matter".

Not only will we pay more in unemployment and lost income tax (and many other expenses), we can make a little profit from the loan.

Also, the Mexico bailout under Clinton produced a nice profit for the US.

2. Are you serious? Bush has been in office for the past 8 years. Republicans have basically held the house and senate for 10 of the past 12 years.
U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Origins & Development > Party Division

Say what you want, but try backing it up sometime. The facts are pretty clear about who has been making the vast majority of the decisions for this country over the past decade.

Bush was given a record surplus and turned it into record deficits. That's just plain fact.

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ThomM

15 years ago

We also need LOTS of conditions, like the cars must meet certain energy requirements/alternative fuel etc. This is the second time big auto has gotten in trouble for the same reason: Lack of energy efficient cars. Same thing happened in the 70s.

I would rather pay big auto to retool for natural gas and other alternative energy cars than keep sending the same money overseas for Middle Eastern oil.

If big auto can speed up alternative energy cars, we'll easily save the money in energy costs we send overseas in the next decade.

T. Boone Pickens has some interesting ideas on that.
PickensPlan: The Plan
In a nut shell he's talking about running our trucks and semi's on natural gas and going with electric and natural gas for the cars.
He's also talking about wind power for electricity.
As he says the United States is the Saudi Arabia of wind power.

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Mike Wright

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

T. Boone Pickens has some interesting ideas on that.
PickensPlan: The Plan
In a nut shell he's talking about running our trucks and semi's on natural gas and going with electric and natural gas for the cars.
He's also talking about wind power for electricity.
As he says the United States is the Saudi Arabia of wind power.

Lol, they used to run vehicles in the UK in WW11 from the methane
produced by a big bag of chicken manure Thom.

Perhaps with a full load of passengers, the bag of manure would be
redundant and all that would be required is a few tubes and corks

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ThomM

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Wright

Lol, they used to run vehicles in the UK in WW11 from the methane
produced by a big bag of chicken manure Thom.

Perhaps with a full load of passengers, the bag of manure would be
redundant and all that would be required is a few tubes and corks

Not surprised Mike.
I've know about producing methane from manure for years.
There's a dairy farm I saw on TV that runs the whole operation on the methane produced from the cow manure.
Not only does it provide the farm with all the 'fuel' needed to run it's electric generators but the left over solids are dried and formed into commerical plant pots for the nursery and landscape industries.
You just place the plants pot and all in the ground and as they decompose the plant gets fed the nutrients that are released and what's left over improves the soil structure.

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myob 15 years ago

US sales of the big 3 US automakers is only a small part of global sales - less than 20%. They don't need a bailout, and will be doing well in another year or so. They should be allowed to go into Chapter 11 bankruptcy (reorganization) in US operations.
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Li Weng

15 years ago

there's a bail out for the car industry in here in Australia.

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pcalvert 15 years ago

Should US car makers be bailed out? Does it make sense to give a blood transfusion to a corpse?

More from the Chairman of General Motors...

Phil
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- shahab aakhavan Banned 15 years ago
  
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  marcanthony 15 years ago
  
  Another bailout.
  
  Should we call that socialism?
  
  Maybe a 3% tax increase on the upper class is the only thing that is considered to be a socialist act these days.
  
  Wait a minute... Now that I think about it... Redistributing money to banks and US car makers is socialism.
  
  There are people other than Obama that think that spreading the wealth is ok.
  
  I'm starting to understand now. When capitalism fails, socialism prevails.
  
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  Mike Wright 15 years ago
  
  Europe car sales in steep decline
  
  BBC NEWS | Business | Europe car sales in steep decline
  
  "Figures show that the worst-hit manufacturer, with sales down 49.4%, was Chrysler.
  General Motors saw sales drop 25.2%, while Volkswagen's sales figures had the smallest fall, down 7.6%.
  State support
  General Motors said that, because of difficult financial circumstances, it would seek governmental support in foreign countries where it has significant operations and holdings, such as Germany.
  GM is demanding state aid from five German states where it manufactures its continental European brand, Opel.
  "We want to safeguard the competitiveness of Opel in this globally difficult situation," said Opel managing director Hans Demant.
  He said German politicians were prepared to consider prompt support measures. General Motors added that the German state guarantees would only be used for product development and industrial facilities in the region and would not be used outside of Europe."
  
  Its all about keeping the engines of the economy functioning
  and minimising unemployment in the US or anywhere else!
  
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  myob 15 years ago
  
  A top Republican senator says he will fight a Democratic plan to bail out U.S. automakers. The opposition by Sen. Richard Shelby and other GOP lawmakers raises doubts about whether the plan will pass in this week's postelection session.
  
  Shelby is the top Republican on the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee. He says it would be a mistake to use any of the $700 billion in the Wall Street rescue to help the automakers survive the current crisis.
  
  He calls the American auto industry a "dinosaur" and says a federal bailout would only postpone its demise.
  
  Democratic leaders want to use $25 billion to help General Motors, Ford and Chrysler. But Democrats have only a narrow Senate majority. Also, President George W. Bush also opposes the idea.
  
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mivasisa

15 years ago

Yes, I think the auto/car industry is very much important for our living, our existence and that is why government should bail out GM and Ford.
And I am also 100% sure that they will definitely revive from their condition and will get stable with time
Se we have to keep an optimistic approach otherwise none of our industries and companies which have filed for bankruptcy will be able to revive themselves.
They are no small companies, they are international giants who have big hand in running our economies.
Once bitten, twice shy! I am sure now all the employees will work with more enthusiasm and conviction to get all these companies at the position where they were.

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Kay King

15 years ago

No.

I was on the fence about this until I heard the comment from the UAW - they announced they would not make ANY labor concessions AT ALL to help the automakers.

If the employees don't give a damn about their company - why should we?
They don't seem to realize that if the company goes - so do they. Or maybe they know the companies aren't in as desperate straits as they claim.

Goldman Sachs got bailout money - and today announced firing of 52,000 employees. A bailout is not a labor guarantee - except for the Big Three where the UAW runs the show.

Let them file Chapter 11 - that will mean renegotiating labor contracts and allow them to eliminate the huge benefit programs they paid 30 years ago when they were LEADERS in auto sales.

kay

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ThomM

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

No.

I was on the fence about this until I heard the comment from the UAW - they announced they would not make ANY labor concessions AT ALL to help the automakers.

If the employees don't give a damn about their company - why should we?
They don't seem to realize that if the company goes - so do they. Or maybe they know the companies aren't in as desperate straits as they claim.

Goldman Sachs got bailout money - and today announced firing of 52,000 employees. A bailout is not a labor guarantee - except for the Big Three where the UAW runs the show.

Let them file Chapter 11 - that will mean renegotiating labor contracts and allow them to eliminate the huge benefit programs they paid 30 years ago when they were LEADERS in auto sales.

kay

I've got a better one for ya Kay.
It seems the exec's aren't giving anything up either.
When the three car company's exec's showed up in Washington for the Congressional hearing, they arrived in three separate corporate jets.

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pcalvert 15 years ago

Newt Gingrich sounds off on this issue...

Crony Capitalism, Predatory Politicians, and the Detroit Three - HUMAN EVENTS

Phil
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- myob 15 years ago
  
  The big three won't get bailed out until they learn to get on their knees and beg just like Henry Paulson did in front of Nancy Palosi for the financial market. Arriving in separate fancy jets for the Congressional hearing didn't do much to help their case.
  
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Kurt

15 years ago

To not bail out the Big 3 will be financial suicide for this country.

Bankruptcy sounds fine, but the reality is, no one will buy a car from a company that is in bankruptcy. If it breaks down in a year, will the company be around to fix it? No consumer will take that chance.

And, it's not the workers at fault. Be prepared to turn tax payers into welfare cases if the Big 3 file for bankruptcy.

So, the largest manufacturing segment in the World won't have a US company...We''ll just give this all up and let China flood us with cars within the next 10 years.

People think that there's a "free market". This is so WRONG. China, S. Korea, Japan all have huge tariffs on US cars. We need to make it a fair game.

And the government and the auto industry have to work hand in hand. When the auto industry first began, it was the government that built the roads and highways needed for the auto industry to succeed. Now, we need to build the electrical grid so that we can power electric cars.

We need our government to help our auto industry just like every other country in the World does. For every car Japan imports from the US, they export 1000 to us. (I think that's the correct number).

The US has a "free market", but the World doesn't.

The Chevy Volt is due out in 2010, to let GM fail now would be disastrous. We can lead the World in high tech/high mileage cars. Or, we can be put out of the auto industry, probably forever. How can we afford that? How can our military be prepared for anything if we loose our last ability to mechanize?

Again, this is more important than "the point of the matter".

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yfish

15 years ago

It's just frustrating to see how these deals going on and how the Congress or Senate responses have effects on the stock market.

The DOW, further triggered by the bailout news, has shrinked for another 444 points. This is simply crazy.

Don't know how they can demand a "convincing" plan from those management who have been poorly managing and operating the companies? Are you going to believe the plan? And since when the Congress or Senate know what plan is best for a collapsing industry?

GM has to consolidate all its brands into one, stop competing among its own cars, come back with only few solid machines and start from ground level again!

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Kay King 15 years ago

They WILL get a bailout - D.C. is just making them jump through a few hoops to justify giving them the money.

They'll come back in December with hands out (probably also using the private jets - will be interesting to see if they do that) - then there will be more talk about a bailout. If public sentiment is still totally against it, the bailout will wait till after Jan 20 - and then it will be done.

What is disgusting is the exaggerated numbers the automakers are giving.

kay
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davidbrain

Banned 15 years ago

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Jared Alberghini

15 years ago

Originally Posted by davidbrain

Hi
This is davidbrain
Car's are essential use for the required all the use in now a days with this the required car's the user can easily travel's from one place to another place with out any distribution. And every one should use cars with the required Bailed. with this market will be raised.
==========================
davidbrain

Well, Hi there davidbrain.

Do you even have a brain? Or are you just doing what your programmer told you to do?

Can we please nuke this spambot?

- J

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smcfjc

15 years ago

Honestly I don't see a need for a bail out for them- Yes they have many many jobs that people need- but they got themselves into this mess just like the rest- If these companies had better practices in place and would have spent the money they were receiving more wisely they wouldn't have this problem. In my opinion it is completely unfair for them to receive more money- to place into the same problem spending ways that we had before- most people still aren't going to have the money to buy the big expensive brand new cars that they are making- so I don't see how it's going to help just delay the problem. If the US really wants to see a rise in everyone across the board they should be giving this bail out to the people- allow them to apply the money to their accounts that are in default- or make it mandatory that is what they focus on first- the big companies will still get the money- and jobs would be saved- and everyone would be out of debt so we could start spending again. Just personal opinion....

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Jared Alberghini

15 years ago

We've got enough cars.

I personally have 5 right now... sure three of them aren't exactly running at the moment, but they are cool project cars (2 16v Scirocco's (87'&88' both all black) & 1 BMW 84' 318) that I will continually work on throughout my life and eventually rebuild them so they are actually better than brand new.

These old cars are built so well, I don't 'need' to buy a new car. I've got a collection of my favorite autos, and when one breaks down, or wears out, I know where to buy the parts & how to fix it.

These autos should last me the rest of my life, (sure I may buy a brand spankin new super-car here and there... hehe) but seriously, we don't need mass produced cars out our ears anymore.

I believe the auto industry is reaching saturation.

- J

P.S. No, this is not my video, I drive much more carefully than this

I love my rocco's.

YouTube - Scirocco 1.8 20V - Crash

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ShayB 15 years ago

Industries change, and the auto industry is no different.

What would have happened if the government would have said, "We cannot let the wagon industry fail! We have to keep the wagon builders in business! Let's throw money at them hand over fist."

I feel for people who lose their jobs. I do. But when do you say, "Enough is enough"?

Take people displaced from the auto industry and retrain them for other industries.
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derekwong28

15 years ago

Lee

The Japanese and European are in deep trouble and many are asking their governments for help as well. I suppose if they do get help, it is only fair to even out the playing field even though I think everybody will lose out in the end. If the demand isn't there in the long term, you are just going to throw good money after bad and it becomes a bottomless well.

The big trouble is that the US government is borrowing money for all the bailouts. By printing money, they are also raising the spectre of hyperinflation and economic collapse in the future. What this means is that when the economy recovers, they must raise taxes and interest rates. But by doing so, they will snuff out any recovery.

I have gone through an economic depression in Asia ten years ago and it didn't feel that bad. However, I am much more pessemistic this time because of the action that the Feds and the US treasury has done this time.

I would personally prefer a sharp deep V shaped recession than a long U or L shape recession. In the moment, it increasingly looks like an L shaped recession like Japan's, who really never recovered from their peak in 1989.

http://marketoracle.co.uk/Article8541.html

Derek

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HeySal

15 years ago

The ONLY bailout that ever should have been given is money back to the taxpayers - real money not that couple hundred buck joke. The FED should be kicked to the curb and we should get all of our money back - I don't know one person who ever signed up willingly as collateral on a bad debt, or that willingly decided they would be corporate inventory.

I notice that nobody has mentioned the Porn Industry bailout since it was requested. I'm wondering if they got it or not.

Time for the Joe and Jill Collateral Bailout in my book.

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aksledding

15 years ago

I was thinking about it today, and with all of this money, not only in the auto industry, but going into it for purposes of bail-out...I wonder what would happen if instead of investing so much in cars, we invested this money into public transportation. Or is that too foreign of a concept for most people?

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ShayB

15 years ago

Originally Posted by aksledding

I was thinking about it today, and with all of this money, not only in the auto industry, but going into it for purposes of bail-out...I wonder what would happen if instead of investing so much in cars, we invested this money into public transportation. Or is that too foreign of a concept for most people?

I think so, for most people in the US.

Here (in my area), public transportation is viewed as for the poor and indigent - not the socially conscious.

Perhaps some $$$ put into education and public awareness, as well as public transportation.

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John Henderson

15 years ago

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ThomM

15 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

Derek asked "Should US Car Makers be Bailed Out?"

Well Derek, today you got your answer -- GM is effectively going to be nationalised by the US government.
BBC NEWS | Business | GM enters bankruptcy protection

Yea that ought to be interesting.
They can't run a country so maybe practicing with a car company will help them learn.

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HeySal

15 years ago

Fascism worked so well in the 40's..guess we're going to do it again.

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HeySal

15 years ago

Fascism, John. Our government is taking the people's money and giving it to corporations and taking stock in those institutions - yet we, the buyers of the bailout - see no proceeds from the investment. It all goes to the Gov, who basically now owns all rights to tell these company's policies. In a capitalist society, these institutions would have just failed.

While GM going under would create much temporary havoc -- allowing the government to take over corporations is -- F-A-S-C-I-S-M.

Right now our whole country is controlled by Central Bank (the IRS). Our only means of returning to our constitution is to retake control of our OWN monetary system and end the FED. There is a strong movement to do so, but not enough in Congress with the guts to pull it off. Until about a decade ago people were told that the FED was actually a branch of government. It took around 70 years to expose the fact it is actually a banking system and not part of our gov -- most people are just now becoming aware of that fact. We've had one hell of a "good one" slipped over on us.

If you look up FASCISM in a good old fashioned political philosophy book, you will understand the exact meaning of the term - and it is scary. Introducing fascism in Germany was the means by which Hitler was able to gain control. It is not an institution to mess with by any means - and most of our people still adhere to the philosophies of the Republic. Not many even noticed what was on until a massive majority of citizens said "no" to the bailouts just to be completely ignored.

If you have noticed, it gets harder and harder to discuss economics without discussing politics - this is why. They have been merged. Think about it.

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Michael Motley

15 years ago

I think you mean socalism.

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Old_Fart

15 years ago

Check out this plan.....

Please find below my suggestion for fixing America 's economy. You can call it the Patriotic Retirement Plan. Instead of giving billions of dollars to companies that will squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan:
There are 40 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire. Forty million job openings - Unemployment fixed.

2) They MUST buy a new American CAR. Forty million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed.

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing Crisis fixed.

If more money is needed, have all members of Congress pay their taxes.

Not my idea, came in my email.

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ronblade

15 years ago

I just couldn't believe that GM announce them to be bankrupt. Hell! A pioneer company in automotive industry got solvent? The recession is so poisonous it's killing everyone from man to machine everything. What we can do? Can't we recover this situation?

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HeySal

15 years ago

John - you are right as far as the context into which you are putting it goes -- but don't forget that America is owned by financial institutions - and basically the heads of those institutions are the leaders of our treasury as well. We are actually the US of Goldman Sachs. Central bank owned. Our federal taxes don't even touch us - it's just interest paid on a debt of which WE THE PEOPLE are collateral. Yes - fascism. I didn't get my definitions from Wikipedia - I got it from a Political philosophy class I took at U of M. I could look it up again for the exact wording, which I admit to not remembering, but I figure by this date if people haven't seen the whole screen yet, they aren't gonna no matter what anyone says.

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Should US Car Makers be Bailed Out?

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