Irishman sums up financial crisis in 2 minutes

TLTheLiberator

13 years ago

What's the situation in the Emerald Isle?

Have they defaulted??

TL

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Thomas

13 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

WARNING!!! This contains "colourful" language. Definitely NSFW.

YouTube - Irish Wanking Bankers.flv

Lol. I know a hundred of him.

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

What's the situation in the Emerald Isle?

Have they defaulted??

Nope, nor will it, barring any further interference by the European Union to "protect" the euro currency (a.k.a. protecting bad investments by German banks) or an acceleration of the hardening of attitudes against "our so-called European friends" (a verbatim quote on the main evening news from a political figure here recently) that advocates using default as part of a nuclear option to destroy the euro (currency) itself. The crux of that viewpoint amounts to: "if they're going to destroy us to save the euro, then f*ck 'em; if we're going down, we'll pre-emept them, and bring the whole thing crashing down with us. We'll be f*cked either way, so we might as well "share the pain" with those who have benefited the most..."

Other than that, everything is just hunky-dory

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Bill Farnham

13 years ago

I try to end all my conversations that way...

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whateverpedia

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

I try to end all my conversations that way...

I begin all of mine that way.

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John Henderson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

WARNING!!! This contains "colourful" language. Definitely NSFW.

YouTube - Irish Wanking Bankers.flv

The Irish Daily Star gave their own verdict on the government of Ireland...

Originally Posted by Thomas

Nope, nor will it, barring any further interference by the European Union to "protect" the euro currency (a.k.a. protecting bad investments by German banks) or an acceleration of the hardening of attitudes against "our so-called European friends" (a verbatim quote on the main evening news from a political figure here recently) that advocates using default as part of a nuclear option to destroy the euro (currency) itself.

One thing that the Brits learned on Black Wednesday (when the Pound was forced to drop out of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism) is that during any financial crisis, Germany will look after the Germans, France will look after the French and to hell with any ideas about a European "Union".

Originally Posted by Thomas

The crux of that viewpoint amounts to: "if they're going to destroy us to save the euro, then f*ck 'em; if we're going down, we'll pre-emept them, and bring the whole thing crashing down with us. We'll be f*cked either way, so we might as well "share the pain" with those who have benefited the most..."

Well, if the worst comes to the worst Thomas, you know what you guys can always revert to...

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Thomas 13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

The Irish Daily Star gave their own verdict on the government of Ireland...

Lol.

I've seen worse though (or better, depending on how you look at it).

Originally Posted by John Henderson

Well, if the worst comes to the worst Thomas, you know what you guys can always revert to...

Before I scrolled down and saw the picture, I actually thought you were talking about something else, and was about to end this post in the same way our friend in the OP's video did

Personally, I strongly suspect the printing presses have been keep within easy-reach all along...just in case.
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seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

One thing that the Brits learned on Black Wednesday (when the Pound was forced to drop out of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism) is that during any financial crisis, Germany will look after the Germans, France will look after the French and to hell with any ideas about a European "Union".

Well, the Germans were SPECIFICALLY excluded from the running for ANY kind of control! A certain subgroup of nations historically had HORRIBLE experience with such things, and were SPECIFICALLY excluded from the EU. Today, nearly ALL of that subgroup, perhaps ALL of them in europe, are now in the EU! BTW Ireland and Greece weren't even a part of those nations. I can't speak towards greece, but apparently Ireland was strong, and people thought it was only gettng better.

With all that, reliance on the Euro to the exclusion of nationalism doesn't seem too bright. If the US states thought the US would be as it is, with the federal reserve, etc... they would probably have never switched 100% to the federal currency.

Steve

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John Henderson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas

Lol.

I've seen worse though (or better, depending on how you look at it).

Laugh? I peed myself when I read that headline. I've never seen such a brutal vote of no confidence....

Originally Posted by Thomas

Before I scrolled down and saw the picture, I actually thought you were talking about something else...

Ah, Thomas..... that didn't cross my mind.

Originally Posted by Thomas

...and was about to end this post in the same way our friend in the OP's video did

When the Conservative Chancellor of the Exchequer explains a £7 billion loan to Dublin by describing Ireland as "a friend in need", I think that people on both sides of the Irish Sea will recognise that the world has changed and that we've all moved on from recent history.

(Off topic: I know from my Renewable Energy Engineering days at university that 50% of the winds that sweep into Europe from the Atlantic hit Ireland and the UK. If the numpties in London and Dublin could get their heads together to create a massive Anglo-Irish wind energy project, the two countries could solve their energy problems, create a whole new energy industry (and a tonne of jobs) and reduce their dependance on foreign energy imports.)

Originally Posted by Thomas

Personally, I strongly suspect the printing presses have been keep within easy-reach all along...just in case.

Well, once you get the printing presses running, you can always find a use for those old Euros when you run out of toilet paper...

Originally Posted by seasoned

With all that, reliance on the Euro to the exclusion of nationalism doesn't seem too bright. If the US states thought the US would be as it is, with the federal reserve, etc... they would probably have never switched 100% to the federal currency.

For about 20 years, there have been voices advocating that the UK should replace the Pound with the Euro. After this complete bloody shambles, those voices have been silenced, and it seems that those people who opposed adopting the Euro (most Brits) were right all along. The Euro is a one-size-fits-all currency that now doesn't quite fit anybody.

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seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

For about 20 years, there have been voices advocating that the UK should replace the Pound with the Euro. After this complete bloody shambles, those voices have been silenced, and it seems that those people who opposed adopting the Euro (most Brits) were right all along. The Euro is a one-size-fits-all currency that now doesn't quite fit anybody.

Like I said, they STARTED out being REASONABLE! If you didn't handle your currency right, broke reasonable laws, or weren't willing to follow the EU agenda, you were NOT let in! That isn't true anymore.

Steve

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Thomas

13 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Like I said, they STARTED out being REASONABLE! If you didn't handle your currency right, broke reasonable laws, or weren't willing to follow the EU agenda, you were NOT let in! That isn't true anymore.

Either France or Germany (can't remember which one) were actually one of the first to break the rules that govern membership of the Euro (currency) - both countries were/are the main drivers of currency union. I believe there was no sanction for it (in fact, if memory serves, the "rules" were subsequently altered in response).

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seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas

Either France or Germany (can't remember which one) were actually one of the first to break the rules that govern membership of the Euro (currency) - both countries were/are the main drivers of currency union. I believe there was no sanction for it (in fact, if memory serves, the "rules" were subsequently altered in response).

Well, I heard that NOBODY wanted Germany to deal with the Money. I believe france or belgium now has that honor. And YEAH, the EU HAS changed a lot of things. When I was a little kid, the US outlawed "red dye #2". The EU did so as well. That presented a problem for denmark that LOVES polse that traditionally have RED DYE #2! The EU CAVED for Denmark! BTW it is interesting because the polse is a HOT DOG, and that was where the US used that color a lot also.

Steve

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John Henderson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas

When you add in the several HUNDRED billion pounds of investments British businesses (incl. banks now owned by the British taxpayer) have in Ireland...

British taxpayers now own Irish banks?

I didn't know that! Jesus, what a complete bloody mess this has turned out to be...

Originally Posted by Thomas

Either France or Germany (can't remember which one) were actually one of the first to break the rules that govern membership of the Euro (currency) - both countries were/are the main drivers of currency union. I believe there was no sanction for it (in fact, if memory serves, the "rules" were subsequently altered in response).

Crumbs Thomas, you're right -- I'd forgotten about that! The first set of economic targets that every country who wanted to adopt the Euro had to meet were so stringent that only Luxembourg managed it. So the EU relaxed the rules of membership so that every country could join. But even with a set of generously watered-down conditions, Greece and France still didn't make the grade.

But hey, the European Central Bank doesn't allow things like "rules" to get in the way of the latest blindly optimistic, poorly thought-out episode of pie-in-the-sky centralised European planning.... So Greece and France were allowed to join anyway.

And with governance like that, what could possibly go wrong?

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Thomas 13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

British taxpayers now own Irish banks? I didn't know that! Jesus, what a complete bloody mess this has turned out to be...

Sorry. I know that's how it sounded the way I wrote it, but I meant British banks that did/do business in Ireland (in competition with Irish banks). Those are the same banks now mostly owned by the British taxpayer. They set up shop here at the height of the property boom and, last I heard, they all have a total combined exposure not that far off £200 billion (nearly twice the exposure of German banks, I believe).
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Thomas

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

When the Conservative Chancellor of the Exchequer explains a £7 billion loan to Dublin by describing Ireland as "a friend in need", I think that people on both sides of the Irish Sea will recognise that the world has changed and that we've all moved on from recent history.

Indeed we have, thankfully. Although, to be honest, George Osborne isn't being entirely altruistic: Even though it only has workforce of about 2 million, and despite 2/3 years of severe recession, the Irish economy is still (right now, at the end of 2010) bigger than that of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland combined (and then some) and is the 5th largest export market for British businesses. In fact, Britain exports more to Ireland than it does to China, India, Russia, and Japan combined. When you add in the several HUNDRED billion pounds of investments British businesses (incl. banks now owned by the British taxpayer) have in Ireland, any collapse of the economy here would probably affect you guys even more than anyone in the eurozone. Also, in relation to Northern Ireland in particular (which, as an English tax payer, costs you about £10 billion a year just to keep in one piece): it exports nearly half of everything it produces straight across the border, and has the Irish State itself as it's largest foreign investor (e.g. Ireland has just purchased the entire electrical grid there). A complete collapse of the economy in the Republic would have an astonishing(ly bad) effect on Northern Ireland, to the point of potentially undoing a decade of peace in one fell swoop.

Originally Posted by John Henderson

(Off topic: I know from my Renewable Energy Engineering days at university that 50% of the winds that sweep into Europe from the Atlantic hit Ireland and the UK. If the numpties in London and Dublin could get their heads together to create a massive Anglo-Irish wind energy project, the two countries could solve their energy problems, create a whole new energy industry (and a tonne of jobs) and reduce their dependance on foreign energy imports.)

Funny you should mention that: I've just been checking out a project in what has been described as "an advanced stage of planning" here that would see a least 5 glacial valleys on the west coast of Ireland flooded with seawater to create huge artificial hydro-storage reservoirs, which will be kept topped up by unused wind (and other) power. The aim is complete energy independence in less than 5 years, and then becoming an energy exporter (much of it to you guys, as it happens, but also the rest of the EU too). I don't know how viable it ultimately is but, although a private project, it now seems to have caught the attention of the Dept. of Energy, and, in recent times, has been discussed on a number of occasions in the Dáil (the national parliament).

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peterj

13 years ago

I think he was holding back!

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HeySal

13 years ago

LMAO -- that said it all, didn't it?

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seasoned

13 years ago

He is 100% right except on TWO points!

1. He forgot about all the other garbage that adds to it.
2. Due to greed in investment and government, you can't really mortgage 2 generation's futures without effectively mortgaging them ALL. Oh well...

Steve

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CrhisD

13 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

WARNING!!! This contains "colourful" language. Definitely NSFW.

YouTube - Irish Wanking Bankers.flv

He dinna fault the bankers when they was makin' him money, did he?

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seasoned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by CrhisD

He dinna fault the bankers when they was makin' him money, did he?

Well, I don't know about HIM, but I never really even cared about how money worked until about 38 years ago. Since THAT time, I HAVE blamed the bankers even though, outside of inflation, their decisions didn't affect ME in a noticeable way. Frankly, the richer people have MORE to lose! You would think they would be at LEAST ass angry!

Steve
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TLTheLiberator

13 years ago

If I remember correctly, ( maybe I do, maybe I don't )...

...the Brits advocated the Euro for everyone and then dropped out at the last moment - after everyone else had adopted it.

TL

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John Henderson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If I remember correctly, ( maybe I do, maybe I don't )...

...the Brits advocated the Euro for everyone and then dropped out at the last moment - after everyone else had adopted it.

Since 1950, the story of European integration has always been one where the central European countries like France, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands forge ahead with ambitious plans (whether their citizens wanted to or not) but where the countries on the outskirts of Europe (UK, Denmark, Sweden) apply the brakes and try to keep as much independence as possible.

This situation has been labelled as "a two-speed Europe", and is the reason why the central European countries were the first to dump their own currencies in favour of the Euro whereas the Danes are still using the Krone and the Brits are still using the Pound.

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seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

Since 1950, the story of European integration has always been one where the central European countries like France, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands forge ahead with ambitious plans (whether their citizens wanted to or not) but where the countries on the outskirts of Europe (UK, Denmark, Sweden) apply the brakes and try to keep as much independence as possible.

This situation has been labelled as "a two-speed Europe", and is the reason why the central European countries were the first to dump their own currencies in favour of the Euro whereas the Danes are still using the Krone and the Brits are still using the Pound.

Most of my foreign currency is swiss and danish, so I guess I am ok. It IS interesting that Germany would want to go along, ESPECIALLY since they were excluded from the running for some areas.

Steve

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l23bc

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If I remember correctly, ( maybe I do, maybe I don't )...

...the Brits advocated the Euro for everyone and then dropped out at the last moment - after everyone else had adopted it.

TL

Not Quite Bit more too it then that

The brits(Or should i say us lot!!)Pulled out of the single currency market and we're still wating after ten bloody years for the vote or referumdum on Single Currrecy and joining the Euro But One agurement is losing our sovern(The pound ect) to the Europeans yet every Goverment in its own way here rases the question then shuts up.

After Greece,Ireland,Collapes of banks in iceland and all that stuff i dont think we will join now!! lol! As for Ireland coming from a irish background meself.(Family are from there originally but im from liverpool u.k) The british Goverment loaned them 7billion pounds to help with the bail out. So In theory we sort of helped them a little when the ship here is sinking also haha!

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HeySal

13 years ago

What is this I hear? I believe it's the death toll for the Amero printing presses. Wonder how much they are worth as scrap?

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seasoned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

What is this I hear? I believe it's the death toll for the Amero printing presses. Wonder how much they are worth as scrap?

There is a SEVERE flaw in your logic! The government is NOT LOGICAL! 8-(

Steve
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vitminl

13 years ago

It's not just Ireland people took a lot of risk over the past few years, placing bets on that were outrageous, but for awhile it looked like the real estate market was invincible. It will all be sorted out eventually.

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John Henderson

13 years ago

So British taxpayers own British banks that made £200 billion of loans to Irish property developers who have now gone to the wall.....

I can't think about it too much. I'd just sink into the floor.

I watched a documentary on Channel 4 (it was one of the 'Dispatches' series) called "How The Banks Bet Your Money" and it was hosted by venture capitalist Jon Moulton. In it, he describes how he tried to warn The Bank of England and the Financial Services Authority about "Collateralised Debt Obligations". Not only did they not think that there was any danger -- none of them even knew what a CDO was. Moulton had to draw a diagram on the back of his napkin to enlighten the very people who were regulating the British financial industry what they were dealing with. Even then, they said that there was nothing to worry about....

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c55_1203712888

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whateverpedia

13 years ago

Meanwhile, over in the USA:

"In Washington, the view is that the banks are to be regulated, and my view is that Washington and the regulators are there to serve the banks," Bachus told The Birmingham News in an interview.

Regulators exist to ‘serve the banks,’ next House finance chairman declares | Raw Story

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TLTheLiberator 13 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Meanwhile, over in the USA:

Regulators exist to ‘serve the banks,’ next House finance chairman declares | Raw Story

An absolutely amazing and also revealing ( for anyone paying attention ) statement given the role banks have played in U.S. financial problems.

Reminds me of Apology Joe Barton of BP fame who has a good chance of being the next chairman of another important committee dealing with energy.

TL
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TLTheLiberator

13 years ago

Ireland Credit Rating Slashed To 3 Grades Above Junk:

story here...

Ireland Credit Rating Slashed To 3 Grades Above Junk

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seasoned

13 years ago

It is a pity. Ireland was starting to look strong, etc... I just hope the US wises up. I always knew what COULD have happened! It is COMMON SENSE! Some have told me it CAN'T because A,B,C,D,and E are true! GUESS what I found out only a few days ago, and VALIDATED most of it! A,B,C are NO LONGER TRUE! D is likely to not be true soon. And people are doing F,G, and H, and planning I! Things are happening that I bet people NEVER dreamed of!

In short, the safeguards people CLAIMED were there are all but GONE now! HECK, China is selling off all the US debt, Almost ALL allies have LOST CONTROL! Those that STILL have control have gotten the UAE to accept THEIR currency and are planning moves that basically are like a WAR on the US economy. Some countries have DEPEGGED the dollar from their currency.

I can't blame them, but a lot of people in the US never consider any of that. It is like the pressure in your car's tires. You ASSUME it is there. MAYBE you periodically check it. Yet, it can be lost in MINUTES. If you lose all the pressure, and need to suddenly use traction, to stop, turn suddenly, speedup suddenly, you could DIE! Well, the US economy is the SAME way! Its tires have lost MOST of the air, and there is STILL a slow leak. Don't think for one SECOND that the US economy is SAFE!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

13 years ago

Here's a good article on why China is not now and will not ever dump U.S. debt and will continue to buy as much as they can get.

Why China Can't Dump U.S. Treasuries - Seeking Alpha

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seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Here's a good article on why China is not now and will not ever dump U.S. debt and will continue to buy as much as they can get.

Why China Can't Dump U.S. Treasuries - Seeking Alpha

Well, that more CONFIRMS what I am saying than denies it. As I said, they USED to say such things couldn't happen. That article is almost TWO years old. ALSO, that article states things that it later proves are NOT valid points, like the bit about currency. I mean if the euro fell, it proves the dollar can! EVEN if the dollar were STABLE, the recovery of the foreign currencies would make the dollars effective value FALL! That HAS happened and CAN and WILL happen! It is ALL but a GIVEN! Of course, it would be a MIRACLE if it never happened again.

WHAT The HELL am I talking about? We are in the future! In 2/13/2009, when that article was written, 1000 USD would buy 777.60 EUROS. TODAY it would only buy 754.70. About a 3% drop.

BTW a dollar now buys 6.67 CNY It DID buy 6.84. That is about a 2.5% drop.

And nobody is claiming they will do it all at once. If they did, the value would start to approach zero. STILL, they are apparently reducing their US exposure. And it is only ONE piece in the puzzle.

STILL, should we trust an enemy? Make no mistake, they ARE an enemy. Their way of life is against ours, they don't care for our welfare, and they want to expand. They also have a HUGE military that is only worthwhile if they were to attack the US or the world. So the US really shouldn't depend on the chinese for ANYTHING! It is STUPID! Imagine what would happen if we DID go to war. BTW enemies can coexist, I'm not saying we should attack, or even that people in the US hate the chinese PEOPLE. It is the GOVERNMENT we have to watch out for. With FRIENDS, trading, etc... is nice, helps out, etc.... With ENEMIES, it is just DUMB!

BTW J.F.Straw has a following here, so let me tell you the gist of a story HE told! He called it "The burning match". Stock/bonds/securities are like a burning match. People will pass them to one another, and perhaps happily make money. EVENTUALLY, someone gets BURNED!

And let me add one thing. The interest rates, manufacturing capability, productivity, and fiat cooperation(in the case of most currencies like the US dollar), control the flame. The US went from manufacturing to service. And services are often bought ELSEWHERE! You see that HERE with outsource requests, etc... It is amazing it has gone on so long. STILL, that match is starting to look SHORT! And NOW, that fire looks like a BLAZE!

Steve

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John Henderson 13 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Here's a good article on why China is not now and will not ever dump U.S. debt and will continue to buy as much as they can get.

TL, I hate to be the one to break this to ya.....

February 2010:
China sells $34.2bn of US treasury bonds | Business | guardian.co.uk

May 2010:
China increases holdings of U.S. Treasury bonds

August 2010:
China Slashes U.S. Government Bond Holdings By The Largest Amount Ever

I think that all of us in the English speaking world are waking up to a new reality in which countries that we previously considered to be "the tail" are now doing the wagging.... :rolleyes:
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John Henderson

13 years ago

George Soros predicts that Ireland will default...

George Soros joins bank debt default chorus - InsideIreland.ie

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derekwong28

13 years ago

I think that video does sum up the root causes of the financial crisis in many countries but it left one point out, that is personal greed and individual responsibility. I am talking mainly about the speculators and short term investors who are in Cohoots with the property developers, property agents, mortgage agents and also the banks. It was all apparent that there was a huge bubble in many markets including Ireland and the UK. When you get to a situation where you have high earners living in council houses and other poor areas, then something is very wrong and a disaster was going to happen. What is sad is that the gorvernment of many countries put the blame on the US. EU or China when there was a big bomb on their doorstep waiting to explode.

I agree with Steve that the situation with regards to Chinese buying bonds have changed. In fact, it is now regarded as a bad thing by many such as Paul Krugman and Soros. It was cited as one of the reasons behined the housing bubble in the U.S. as it had kept interest rates lower than it should be. In fact, there is a lot of pressure on China to let its currency appreciate and it will be forced to sell US bonds when this happens.

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Thomas

13 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

It is a pity. Ireland was starting to look strong, etc.

Seeing that statement made me smile a bit because it's similar to the the kind of sentiment I see expressed in foreign media reports about Ireland all the time (and, to some extent, elements of the Irish media too). Were you to rely solely on media reports, you could be forgiven for thinking this country is flying apart at the seams, and on the verge of some kind of mass breakdown in the social order.

Sadly for the newsmen, it isn't. But, of course, relying on the old adage of never letting truth get in the way of a good story, it doesn't stop them trying: For example, I've read umpteen foreign media stories about Ireland in recent months, and, for whatever reason, they ALL had the same picture of a (noticeably non-Irish) beggar sitting on a street in Dublin, even when the story was about some mundane topic like bond yields. I've also seen reports about “mass violence” in Dublin that, in reality, consisted of approximately 20 (very) well-known political fruitcakes who tried to open a gate into a government building and were forced back – not by the riot squad – but by ONE police officer with his baton. The “put a camera in the middle of a tiny crowd to make it look huge” trick was used to good effect there. Also, as it turns out, the supposedly “devastating” problem of ghost housing estates has turned out to be a lame duck too: the definition of a “ghost estate” has morphed into one where new housing estates with even ONE unoccupied house have been included, thereby inflating the figures a thousand-fold. The same has happened with commercial property: An otherwise-full office building with just one or two unoccupied offices has suddenly become “a forlorn building, lying dormant in testimony to the madness of the Celtic Tiger”. Lol. The media have even tried to resurrect the spectre of mass emigration (or as they call it "the hoardes of young people fleeing the economic devestation"), neglecting to mention that nearly all such supposed "Irish emigrants" have turned out to actually be foreign workers going home as their social welfare entitlements begin to expire (1 in 4 unemployed people here are non-Irish).

To put some balance into things: Despite the current economic problems, and an ongoing unemployment problem, and uber-hysterical media reports, Ireland is actually doing reasonably well. The majority of people have well-paying jobs, and the majority of people never had any part in the property boom at all (IIRC, about 60% of Irish people own their own homes outright, with no mortgage). And, even after 2/3 years of severe recession, the economy (of only 2 million workers) is still pumping out over U.S.$105 billion in annual exports. For contrast: the UK is 15 times larger than Ireland, but only exports a little under 3.5 times as much.

In fact, to further comparisons with our nearest neighbour, if you exclude England, the Irish economy is still (right now, at the end of 2010) bigger (by far) than the rest of the United Kingdom (Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland combined) despite being a nation of just 4 million people (which makes it 20% smaller (demographically) than just Scotland). That is still the case even if you factor in the (pretty large) amount English taxpayers subsidise the rest of the UK by too. And, as such, Ireland is one of Britain's top 5 trading partners, consuming more British exports than China, India, Russia, and Japan put together (and nearly half of everything produced by Northern Ireland).

The Irish State itself is financially sound; the only thing I can see that could bring it down (financially) is the euro (currency), and the level of interference in domestic politics that membership of the euro entails (most specifically in relation to domestic and foreign banks).

As for the expected (and seemingly hoped for) mass breakdown of social order (whether default happens or not): I don't see it happening. The Irish sense of national identity is astonishingly strong, to the point of being overwhelming. Although the population is homogeneous in terms of race and religion anyway (96.7% white/ 86.8% Catholic in the most recent census), the only real "sub division" of people I have ever personally encountered (having been born and raised here) has little to do with race or religion anyway: it's actually “Irish” and “tourist”.

As a people, the Irish have been through FAR worse than our current (transient) economic problems: invasion, war, oppression, poverty, famine, political massacres, violent suppression of language and religion, and even plenty of stuff that fits the modern-day definition of genocide. (And not all of it was in historical times either; alot of bad stuff has happened within living memory of a still sizeable percentage of the population.)

We got through all that with an even stronger sense of national identity than before, which, IMO, is the reason the Republic of Ireland has proven itself to be one of the MOST politically-stable countries in the world. Historically, Irish people have supported the Irish State; in spite of MUCH harder economic times in the past, it (the State) hasn't been seriously threatened internally since the Civil War nearly a hundred years ago (and that started over the creation of Northern Ireland, not because of civil unrest). History suggests we don't “do violence” against ourselves, even when the odds seem thoroughly stacked in favour of it. I see nothing to suggest that our current problems will be any different (or even comparable, for that matter).

(Whew! That was all uncharacterisically () long-winded of me... but defend my people, I must )

Originally Posted by seasoned

...they don't care for our welfare, and they want to expand. They also have a HUGE military that is only worthwhile if they were to attack the US or the world. So the US really shouldn't depend on the chinese for ANYTHING! It is STUPID! Imagine what would happen if we DID go to war. BTW enemies can coexist, I'm not saying we should attack, or even that people in the US hate the chinese PEOPLE. It is the GOVERNMENT we have to watch out for. With FRIENDS, trading, etc... is nice, helps out, etc.... With ENEMIES, it is just DUMB!

I'd put money on it that the Chinese would (and probably do) say the exact same thing about the US (especially if they also wonder what US motives are for spending 6-7 times as much on it's own armed forces than China does on it's "HUGE military").

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seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas

I'd put money on it that the Chinese would (and probably do) say the exact same thing about the US (especially if they also wonder what US motives are for spending 6-7 times as much on it's own armed forces than China does on it's "HUGE military").

You are right about the chinese people feeling that way. They are LIED TO! If the US wanted to expand its territory, it WOULD have EARLIER! You are clearly WRONG about the chinese spending less. If the chinese "paid" say 25% of what we paid, it may be equivalent to paying 4 times what we pay. You have to allow for reduced labor costs, reduced costs of comfort, etc... Some people may even be in service for simply room and board!

When the US saw the soviet jets, they noticed how they were nice, and perhaps even better in some ways, but the pilots comfort was given basically NO thought! China, no doubt, also takes the same short cuts. AND, the chinese are brought up with the idea of going down fighting.

Steve

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derekwong28

13 years ago

"They also have a HUGE military that is only worthwhile if they were to attack the US or the world."

I can't agree with this either. China has got more countries bordering it than any other country in the world, and many have large militaries. If you look at the military figures for those countires such as Russia, India, Pakistan, N. Korea and S. Korea, then China does not look that impressive. in terms of the size of the military compared to the total population, it pales compared to the US and many others.

Moreover, it has not fought a war for over 40 years, this cannot be said for US, Russia and many European countries. If your military has not been in action for over 40 years, it will be completely "out of practice". There is no certainty whether many of their "probably stolen from the US" weapon systems will work.

There is also the "Great Wall" mentality, where the wall was built to keep the "barbarians" out and Chinese in. For 2000 years almost continuously till 1830, China had the largest economy in the world but this was not translated into military power.

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John Henderson

13 years ago

Irish Prime Minister to step down...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12259306

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whateverpedia 13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

Irish Prime Minister to step down...

BBC News - Irish PM Brian Cowen steps down as Fianna Fail leader

From that article:

I realise it meams something diffferent in Gaelic, but the Engish reading of the following sentence from that article is interesting:

Irish PM Brian Cowen has said he is stepping down as leader of the ruling Fianna Fail party

.
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So that blind people can hate them as well.
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- Thomas 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by whateverpedia
  
  I realise it meams something diffferent in Gaelic...
  
  On the off chance anyone wants to know...
  
  The spelling is usually wrong in foreign media (maybe deliberately so, since it looks funnier ). The correct spelling is "Fáil". The accent over the "a" is called a fada, and makes the word sound like "fawl". It (the word) originates from "Fál", a legendary name for Ireland.
  
  The word "Fianna" refers to bands of ancient warriors that lived apart from the rest of society in Irish mythology.
  
  Think ninjas, but from Ireland.
  
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John Henderson

13 years ago

Ireland's Green party withdraw from the coalition government:
BBC News - Ireland's Green Party quits government of Brian Cowen

Well, it now looks like an Irish general election will be held sooner rather than later...

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cbuist8776

13 years ago

This guy has every ounce of truth in his voice. I laughed my butt off about the michael flatley comment. It won't be long before the american dollar crashes too. Then what are we going to do. These are the signs of the times.

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John Henderson 13 years ago

Allied Irish Banks declares a £9.2bn ($14.8bn) loss...

Allied Irish Banks Has Confirmed A Full Year Loss Of £9.2bn And Plans To Cut Another 2,000 Jobs | Business | Sky News
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seasoned

13 years ago

Ohe person said something funny, sad, true, crazy, etc.... And HEY, this is a way to get EVRYONE employed. I would like this job!

"And bankers get 9million pound bonus for this,Blimey im in the wrong job,....I can make a company go bust in no time,Employ me please."

I will go hiim one better! I will loan, and then writeoff, a loan to me for 20 billion $USD, to remodel my home! After all, you have to allow for suits and inflation! And I know one person that can't reliably add 2 and 2, but I BET we can train him to loan out billions.

BTW forgive my ignorance, if any, here, but one person said this crash was due to "liebour". I tried to look that up, just in case. Did they simply mispell libor? libor changes all the time, and it COULD cause a SEVERE problem if it changed a LOT. I guess if a homeloan were indexed to libor, people COULD lose their homes. Still, one would hope it would not happen so fast or be so complete. After all, wouldn't a bank make some allowances? STILL, LIBOR is as much a symptom as a possible cause. When a currency gets too low in real value, the interest rate generally goes up to pay for risk and fluctuation. Of course, making it too high causes defaults and increases the risk of doing things in that nation, and causes businesses to move out.

Steve

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bravo75

13 years ago

"You know Michael Flatey is originally from Chicago. F.ck Off!"

Haven't laughed this hard since the first time I watched Ricky Gervais interview Karl Pilkington.

Gotta love the Irish.

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Irishman sums up financial crisis in 2 minutes

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