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Ancient Amber - What do you know about it? -50 million years old!

by John Durham
59 replies
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I have developed a fascination with "Amber" lately. It is fossilized tree resin that is fifty million years old. At its finest it is yellow and clear and contains inclusions.

The arrangement of these inclusions sometimes produces a sort of scenery.

As the sap (resin) rolls down the tree, it picks up ants, and mosquitos and spiders... even their webs... and leaves.... then it settles into a ball at the base of the tree... and is eventually covered over by dirt.

50 million years later we find it fossilize within the ball of clear ancient tree resin which is now hard as a rock, almost like a ball of glass. We pick it up in the form of clear stones and if you find a good piece, it will contain mosquitoes and spider and plants in it that will make for a prehistoric scene thats sometimes quite fascinating. The insects from 50 million years ago are kept perfectly in tact. In fact if you were to get them out of the stone, they wouldnt even be dried out or anything, they are still perfect.

Anyway, I came across this because I was looking for good material for guitar picks. I like to make fine specialty ones by hand, as a little hobby. Some dont know but specialty guitar picks can sell for around 100 dollars or so or more... I dont sell them, I just like quality.

Anyway, Amber is said to have keratin like properties similar to tortoise shell and produces a similar sound and feel when used as a guitar pick. Only its not endangered.... a guitar pick is like a mallot that strikes a bell... i have always figured, why would you spend 3,000 on a bell with perfect tone, then strike it with a twenty five cent peice of plastic? My guitars best tone doesnt come out by being struck with a twenty five peice of plastic , although that suffices in a pinch.

Anyway, this post isnt about "picks"...

After looking at the stuff (Amber) , its so fascinating that I could hardly do that to it, I could barely see carving something up that is so sacred... although maybe some of the smaller uglier peices could see taking a dremmel to.

In the process of seeking this pick making material though I became fascinated by this Amber stuff. Im looking at a paper weight for instance right now that cost over $1000 bucks... but its more than a paperweight, its very LITERALLY a real life scenerio that has been preserved and trapped in time for 50 million years... at least thats what Im trying to convince my wife of.

BTW, some of the plants and insects you find in amber have not even been named or otherwise discovered...

Here is an example of a 50 million year old spider held perfectly in a ball of amber, if you had a magnifying glass you could look into it and see perfectly the surrounding insects which would have been his lunch that day fifty million years ago when he got rolled over by a ball of tree resin.





another interesting peice




and another.

Each is different and contains different scenes... these peices here are about the $300.00 range.



I just thought I would share this in OT its very fascinating. Maybe old news to some, but I think its interesting. Makes me want to collect a couple peices. May still carve one up and see how they work for guitar pics... you can get smaller pieces for like 25 bucks.

Maybe the fascination here reveals my ignorance because some have told me this is old news 5th grade science, and that EVERYONE already knows this... but if its not old news for YOU, then this post will be exciting!

What do you know about amber?
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    That looks like Baltic amber, John. There's a few places you can find amber in the US but it's not all that prevalent around here.

    There's a lot of fake stuff on the market made of hard clear plastics that feel like the actual stone. Unless you have a lab to tell if amber is real you have to taste it. If it has relatively no taste it's likely to be real -- if it isn't real it will taste pretty nasty.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    The third piece looks like it was stolen off the cane of John Hammond.......
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  • Profile picture of the author 365Daysof
    l have always loved Amber. Some is green, some more red, some milky yellow, like butter.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by 365Daysof View Post

      l have always loved Amber. Some is green, some more red, some milky yellow, like butter.
      Yeah the green is cool. Its really amazing stuff. I always heard it was some kind of gem stone but didnt know much about it. Now that I do its really cool stuff... can you imagine playing guitar with a 50 million year old plectrum... I dunno sounds cool.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      That looks like Baltic amber, John. There's a few places you can find amber in the US but it's not all that prevalent around here.

      There's a lot of fake stuff on the market made of hard clear plastics that feel like the actual stone. Unless you have a lab to tell if amber is real you have to taste it. If it has relatively no taste it's likely to be real -- if it isn't real it will taste pretty nasty.
      Thanks Sal.

      They also sell a material called "copal' and pass it off as amber. Like amber it has insect inclusions... as well, but its not 50 mill years old its only 200 years. With minimal heat applied you can feel the surface get a bit tacky unlike amber which is hard as rock...

      Also I think maybe copal is tree sap as opposed to resin and there is a big difference. It "looks" the same though.

      I find it interesting that they say it has keratin like properties like tortoise shell... interesting that the resin comes from the actual veins of the tree, and has life in it similar to tortoise shell whose shell was also grows from and internal sort of resin.

      I know people will hate me for saying this and I dont condone the killing of tortoises which is why I seek these alternatives.... but there is a very unique tone that is produced by tortoise shell when used as a plectrum that NO other material has.... thats why tort picks are more highly sought after than blood diamonds by guitar players, and IF you come across one you are gonna pay 60 bucks minimum.

      Another interesting thing is the way they feel in your hand, when you start playing they almost bond to your hand...sort of a melting of pores opening up and bonding...

      I think that is "life force"...that makes such beautiful tone, one that no other material can produce... and it makes sense to me that a similar tone could only be found in some other material that was formed from "life force"... actually its the tree's "blood" really.

      These picks with these keratin like properties, even the synthetic ones produces better tone than plastic, though not 100 percent authentic, perhaps because the material is similar to a finger nail... I dunno.

      I been playin for 35 years... Im so good now that I cant get any better on my own :rolleyes: I have to find super picks now to take the smallest nuances of tone over the finite edges.

      Also have some ocean front property in Arizona if you are interested.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Great pics John, and thanks for the education on guitar picks.
        I've been a drummer since I was 10 and much of what you are saying applies to drums also. Not so much the 'kits' you play in a rock band, but almost any hand drum will sound and feel better when made from natural materials.
        I'll be getting my first Bodhran in a couple of weeks. It has a Mulberry shell and Goat skin head. I'm curious to see how using different woods for the tippers will give the drum different variations. Then of course I'll have to add more Bodhran's made from different woods
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
    I know a guy in Nashville that prefers to use a particular kind of seashell he's only been able to find on the NJ coast. It has a very finely serrated edge. Says they ARE be a little rough on strings but produces the tone he's looking for. Also has to pick up quite a few at a time to be able to find those few that feel "right"....
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Pretty impressive. Maybe one day we really will have a Jurassic Park.
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  • Profile picture of the author thatgirlJ
    I love amber! Actually, we have amber teething necklaces for our baby. I heard about it on "Mommy" forums, and it's supposedly commonly used in Germany and other European countries (is that true, Europeans?).

    In any case, it makes for a beautiful necklace. I do think it helps with teething (the succinic acid is supposed to be the helpful part, it is not for chewing or biting). It could just be my wishful thinking, though :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    So John, that little ziplock bag of a dozen guitar picks for $5 isn't so good? Dang, and I thought that was high priced. It was the first picks I've bought in about 15 years.

    What kind of material have you made guitar picks from that you liked?

    Amber is cool. I've never found any though.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @Thom, and Dennis

    I'd hate to tell you my FAVORITE guitar pic because it would cause a stir...People have really gotten volatile with me about it, because the material was banned in 71 but you can still buy pre ban material... just illegal to fashion it into guitar picks... okay tortoise shell. Dont hate me. I dont kill tortoises. You can buy antique preban picks on ebay for like 60 bucks apeice, and trust me they are worth it, but they cant say the word in their listings, and so you cant be 100% positive what it is till you get it.

    You arent gonna believe me, but there really is no substitute, it is the perfect marriage for a guitar string in 10 different ways. Some people still buy antiques with shell just for that purpose (re-purposing) , but you arent supposed to.

    I for one havent fallen into that temptation yet, and will continue to resist... however I have had a few in my time, and they are a world of difference to play with.

    EDIT: I have heard good things about mammoth ivory and it is legal to make pics out of... they are beautiful too but I've never played with one.

    Here are some mammoth Ivory picks (50,000 years old)

    Another that looks homemade:



    Here's beauty:



    Here are some Horn and bone picks of comparable quality... most of these kinds of picks are handmade.



    Dinosuar Bones picks.... though it doesnt really look to nice to play with, some swear by them.




    AGATE guitar pick...




    Brazzilian Agate:






    AMBER PICKS!!!!!     (If you went to the site you would see these pics below are priced at about $70 bucks apeice... but if you have a really fine guitar that you paid alot to enjoy playing, playing with something like this that has that keratin like tone can really make the experience that much more enjoyable.

    I was a poor kid , when I was young I had to play crappy guitars, everyone else always had a better one... so as an adult I make up for that alot... maybe overcompensate a bit. However, having been a professional I can tell you that it REALLY makes a difference, probably not to the "crowds" experience, but to YOURS!
    Its good when a pick actually gives you a feeling back... there is a certain way TORT feels in your fingers that you dont get from plastic.... also because of the way it grows in rings, the edges are always rounded and you NEVER get "clicking". The material strikes the string but does not GIVE with it, so it both rolls over because no edges, and it also is more responsive speed wise because it doesnt flex when it strikes the string.... it hardly absorbs any of the vibration producing more volume... there is something else about it that cant be defined TONE wise...and honestly it just feels alive in your hand like it is participating joyfully with you and the instrument... if you have never played anything else, plastic wont feel dead to you... but after playing with some better materials you will see a major difference after 15 minutes or so of distinction making...







    Petrified woods and super hard woods work well too.


    Since its just a copy and paste job and easy enough to do. Here is my pick making file Dennis, yeah we get really boring hobbies and fascinations as we get older I guess:

    Making Custom Pics


    A: Use a water solvable glue to secure the pick material to a thin substrate, such as a thin piece of plywood or fiber glass… to help avoid chipping and cracking of the thin fragile pick material during the cutting process. Now wait for the glue to set up well and dry and the material is secured nicely.
    C: Draw the shape of the pick you want on the material, or trace a pick, using a permanent marker, then cut the shape out with a dremel using a fine point bit, don't cut right to the mark though.
    D: Once you have the rough shape cut out, detach the pick material from the substrate and clean it with water.
    E: After drying the material, take a fine flat file, and file the rest of the way to the marker line, take care on leaving a smooth edge, straight, flat edge with the file
    F: Now use 150 grit sand paper on a flat surface and rub the pick on it to take it to the thickness you want sand both sides equally.
    G: Now back to the file, use it to bevel the edges not sharp though, leave a little flat strap around the edge.
    H: Get a micro mesh starter kit ( About 20 bucks), comes with 1500 to 12000 grit, there should be 9 grits in total. Use micro mesh starting with the roughest or maybe one or two grits up
    on a flat surface and rub the pick on it in a circular motion, both sides. then holding the pick do the edges. repeat with the rest of the grits
    Note: Wet the micro mesh while using except for the last two grits.
    10: Coat with either a fairly generous coat of varnish or turtle wax… furniture polish…and buff to the desired finish.
    VOILA ! A first class pick! (Depending on the material being used of course. If the material is synthetic, I’d have to say it’s a “second” class pick for my taste).

    Great Materials are tortoise shell (#1)
    Mammoth Ivory
    Fossilized bone
    Elk Horn
    Petrified wood.
    Amber.
    These materials are not only known for their hardness but for their Keratin like elements, creating a tone similar to the tone of your own fingernails when used as a pick, only much thicker, harder and much more durable. If you spent 3,000 dollars on a bell that had the most beautiful tone in the world…. Would you want to strike that bell with a 25 cent plastic mallot?


    That’s what its like when a pick hits a string both the guitar and the “mallot” influence the tone vibrations. That’s why its worth it to use top shelf picks. It truly is just like the mallot and bell scenario.


    Some people don’t know the tone of a good bell from a bad one, let alone a mallot, but if you are one who DOES…. Then you need a first class pick, made of first class material.


    Final Notes:



    On Embellishments;


    “Pre lacquer” you may also carve out or buff out thumb grooves or specialized bevels… you can carve logos, and grips, apply custom peel and stick gold leaf logos… the possibilities are endless…. These are instructions above are the fundamentals.


    To create a Thumb pick or a finger pick;

    A: Go and buy a standard plastic one at the store for 50 cents
    B: Bring it home and take a blower dryer to it. The heat will make it pliable so you can flatten out the design and trace it.
    C: Trace the thumb pick onto the pick material. Then cut the pattern out like you would a flat pick.
    D: While the pattern is still flat do all of the above that you would do to a flat pick except “finish”.
    E: Now apply a little heat and bend the pattern into the desired shape that feels good to your thumb or finger.
    F: Apply finish as prescribed for flat pick.

    Originally Posted by Jenn Dize View Post

    I love amber! Actually, we have amber teething necklaces for our baby. I heard about it on "Mommy" forums, and it's supposedly commonly used in Germany and other European countries (is that true, Europeans?).

    In any case, it makes for a beautiful necklace. I do think it helps with teething (the succinic acid is supposed to be the helpful part, it is not for chewing or biting). It could just be my wishful thinking, though :-)
    Many cultures believe it has healing properties. Millions of people have to be at least a little right, or else science would have laughed that belief out of existence by now, but they have believed it for thousands of years.

    Hope you found this informative!
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  • Profile picture of the author Chevy5
    As a fossil hunter, I really enjoyed seeing the amber. Thanks for sharing the pictures.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Darn it. I just did it Dennis...all this talk was too much....

    I went to that site and ordered this pick: "Motivation = Action" its programmed in me by Tony Robbins. In fact Sal could tell you that the primal reason for this whole thread for me was to arrive at this moment of manifesting something.

    Although we see that in retrospect.




    Will tell you if its everything they say it is when it gets here next week!

    Last note reminder before I get too passionate and buy some more.... and that gives my wife leverage to go shopping tommorrow and break me...

    Reminder on picks:

    "If you go to all extremes to choose a bell that has that perfect tone... wouldnt you go to the same lengths to find a worthy mallot to strike it with"?

    End of pick rant. Its so nice that we have an OT section to share in!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Update... little disapointed that the ole proverbial ancient pick didnt come in today.... oh well.... tell you tomorrow hopefully how it pans out... Wish I knew how to vid, I would give you a vid test of the difference.

    Hopefully this will be an alternative to tort shell and I can turn over a new leaf, and become an honest man.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Hopefully this will be an alternative to tort shell and I can turn over a new leaf, and become an honest man.
      John, I hate to say this but.
      If I have tort. shell that was harvested legally I'd turn it into pics in a heartbeat if that was my thing.:rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Fascinating. Not just the fact that John has so much passion for these exotic guitar pics but the way he can put together such a nice little "gallery" accompanied by some really great content. If I had that natural ability, I would probably be a much better IMer. I'll have to get myself a real hobby one of these days.
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Hey John,
    here is a gift from me to you to hopefully inspire you to come up with some new great designs.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thank you so much. In the next five years I plan to pursue a hobby of building very fine guitars out of very fine materials.... and calling them "The Vincent Rio's Collection".

    Designer guitars. Perfectly balanced like a Stradivarius.

    Great music btw. Wonderful Playing. Reminds me of django rienhardt
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  • Profile picture of the author Qamar
    Great post! Do you realized that your post have just demolished the theory of Evolutions by Charles Darwin? You have just proven that those insects which were trapped in the amber balls 50 million years ago are the very same spiders that can be found today! Which means there have been NO EVOLUTIONS taken place to those insects or for that matter to all living things including humans.

    Spiders or insects 50 million ago are the same with the spiders and insects in this PRESENT day! There is no evolution. Which brings me to the point that proves EVERYTHING ARE BEING CREATED by GOD and NOTHING EXIST BY CHANCE as suggested by the Evolutionist...

    Your post has just proved that to us....
    Thanks


    Qamar
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    • Profile picture of the author XtremXpert
      Originally Posted by Qamar View Post

      Great post! Do you realized that your post have just demolished the theory of Evolutions by Charles Darwin? You have just proven that those insects which were trapped in the amber balls 50 million years ago are the very same spiders that can be found today! Which means there have been NO EVOLUTIONS taken place to those insects or for that matter to all living things including humans.

      Spiders or insects 50 million ago are the same with the spiders and insects in this PRESENT day! There is no evolution. Which brings me to the point that proves EVERYTHING ARE BEING CREATED by GOD and NOTHING EXIST BY CHANCE as suggested by the Evolutionist...

      Your post has just proved that to us....
      Thanks


      Qamar
      I know religious posts are not allowed here but just to let you know you made a mistake. "God" created everything 6,000 years ago not 50 millions ago. The evolution dates way back. if you read the Wikipedia page on Amber you will see everything is explained in evolutionary therms not god related "history". So this post proved exactly the opposite of what you said.

      On Topic: Amber looks really great, I would love to have a collection in the future with different interesting pieces.
      I also have to get a guitar and start to learn again, I did this 3 times already. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't stick with anything. not good
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      • Profile picture of the author Qamar
        Originally Posted by XtremXpert View Post

        I know religious posts are not allowed here but just to let you know you made a mistake. "God" created everything 6,000 years ago not 50 millions ago. The evolution dates way back. if you read the Wikipedia page on Amber you will see everything is explained in evolutionary therms not god related "history". So this post proved exactly the opposite of what you said.
        Lol, so where did you get the info that God only started creating 6000 years ago? I never heard of this "info" before....
        BTW, Evolution theory only started during charles darwin time and it wasn't even heard or known before that. Anyway, you should also check on the big bang theory to get a clearer picture...

        Qamar
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by Qamar View Post

      Great post! Do you realized that your post have just demolished the theory of Evolutions by Charles Darwin? You have just proven that those insects which were trapped in the amber balls 50 million years ago are the very same spiders that can be found today! Which means there have been NO EVOLUTIONS taken place to those insects or for that matter to all living things including humans.

      Spiders or insects 50 million ago are the same with the spiders and insects in this PRESENT day! There is no evolution. Which brings me to the point that proves EVERYTHING ARE BEING CREATED by GOD and NOTHING EXIST BY CHANCE as suggested by the Evolutionist...

      Your post has just proved that to us....
      Thanks

      Qamar
      Are you kidding?

      If not, you clearly have no idea what the theory of evolution is about, and haven't been introduced to basic logic. You can't logically take two apparently conflicting theories, and assume that since they seem to conflict, if one of them is false, the other must be true. Logic requires an open mind, which admits that there could be any number of explanations for something aside from a given pair of theories. Just because they conflict does not mean that to disprove one is to prove the other.

      Moreover, just because some species can remain the same for a very long time-even possibly since the early days of life on Earth, doesn't mean there is no evolution, any more than the fact that some people never change much as individuals disproves the existence of individuals who do. Or that since some people never make money online, it must be impossible.

      The fact that some species have remained the same in no way alters the body of fossil evidence showing others have changed in ways that enhanced their survival-evolution. Even if that body of evidence didn't exist, it wouldn't come close to proving that Jehovah, Allah, Vishnu, or the Easter Bunny, must have created everything.
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      • Profile picture of the author Qamar
        Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

        Are you kidding?

        If not, you clearly have no idea what the theory of evolution is about, and haven't been introduced to basic logic. You can't logically take two apparently conflicting theories, and assume that since they seem to conflict, if one of them is false, the other must be true. Logic requires an open mind, which admits that there could be any number of explanations for something aside from a given pair of theories. Just because they conflict does not mean that to disprove one is to prove the other.

        Moreover, just because some species can remain the same for a very long time-even possibly since the early days of life on Earth, doesn't mean there is no evolution, any more than the fact that some people never change much as individuals disproves the existence of individuals who do. Or that since some people never make money online, it must be impossible.

        The fact that some species have remained the same in no way alters the body of fossil evidence showing others have changed in ways that enhanced their survival-evolution. Even if that body of evidence didn't exist, it wouldn't come close to proving that Jehovah, Allah, Vishnu, or the Easter Bunny, must have created everything.

        I am basing my opinion on established scientific facts and not on some weak logical assumptions like yours. I have read and understood the basis of the theory of evolutions and so I am still convinced that darwin's theory is flawed and scientifically flawed.

        According to the theory of evolution, every living animals/creatures comes out from a predecessor. Each creatures which existed previously changed into something else over a period of time and all species have existed into being in this fashion. According to this theory, transformation happens slowly over millions of years

        If this were the case, then countless intermediate species should have lived during the period of time when these transformations were supposedly occurring. For example, there should have lived in the past some half-fish/half-reptile animals which had acquired some reptilian characteristics in addition to the fish characteristics they already had. Or there should have existed some reptile/bird creatures, which had acquired some avian traits in addition to the reptilian traits they already possessed. The atheist/evolutionist refer to these imaginary animals, which they believed to have lived in the past, as "transitional forms".

        If such creatures do really exist, there must have been millions, even billions, of them. But most importantly, the fossils of these animals should be present in the fossil record. The amount of these transitional forms should have been even more than that of present animal species, and we should be able to find their remains all over the world. In his own book entitled "The Origin of Species" Darwin himself accepted this fact and explained:

        "If my theory be true, numberless intermediate varieties, linking most closely all of the species of the same group together must assuredly have existed... Consequently evidence of their former existence could be found only amongst fossil remains."

        Even Darwin himself admitted the absence of such transitional forms. He wished that they would be found in the future. However, despite his optimism, he realized that these missing intermediate forms were the biggest stumbling-block for his theory. Furthermore, that is why he wrote the following in the chapter of the The Origin of Species entitled "Difficulties on Theory":

        "…Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?… But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?… Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory."

        My conclusion is, fossils are proof that evolution never take place at all and humans are humans from the day the universe was created. Humans have never been apes in fact there was not even a stone aged period, all these stories stemmed out from the imaginations of the atheist who worshipped materials as their "god".Unfortunately, this flawed theories are being taught to our children in schools in many countries all over the world. As the result, children were misguided and misinformed about the true facts of creations.

        As fossil record shows, living things came into being in a single moment, with all the characteristics they possess and never changed in the least for so long as the species survived. Birds have always existed as birds, fish as fish and insect as insects. There is no scientific validity to the claim that species develop slowly and by stages. God created all living things.

        PS: Nothing happened by chance, they must be the originator of a certain act. Can your guitar play " Smoke on the water" or "Highway Star" by itself when you didn't even strum the first string?

        Qamar
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        • Profile picture of the author XtremXpert
          I say 6,000 years because that's based on the Bible. Nothing personal, but I don't know how you talk about god if you never heard that before.

          See, you need to have knowledge in all related theories or facts to be able to see how things really are.

          Originally Posted by Qamar View Post

          I am basing my opinion on established scientific facts and not on some weak logical assumptions like yours. I have read and understood the basis of the theory of evolutions and so I am still convinced that darwin's theory is flawed and scientifically flawed.

          According to the theory of evolution, every living animals/creatures comes out from a predecessor. Each creatures which existed previously changed into something else over a period of time and all species have existed into being in this fashion. According to this theory, transformation happens slowly over millions of years

          If this were the case, then countless intermediate species should have lived during the period of time when these transformations were supposedly occurring. For example, there should have lived in the past some half-fish/half-reptile animals which had acquired some reptilian characteristics in addition to the fish characteristics they already had. Or there should have existed some reptile/bird creatures, which had acquired some avian traits in addition to the reptilian traits they already possessed. The atheist/evolutionist refer to these imaginary animals, which they believed to have lived in the past, as "transitional forms".

          PS: Nothing happened by chance, they must be the originator of a certain act. Can your guitar play " Smoke on the water" or "Highway Star" by itself when you didn't even strum the first string?

          Qamar
          There are many years since evolution is no more a theory but a fact.
          It was in the time of Darwin's, but knowledge evolved a lot since then. So if everything you know about evolution is from Darwin's writing, then you know too little.

          Do some research, and you'll see fossils of some intermediate species. You should also learn the process of fossil creation, then you will understand that finding this fossils are really 'miracles'.

          Also, your last statement about the guitar is just a non sense, don't know how grown-ups can ask such questions.
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          Originally Posted by Qamar View Post

          I am basing my opinion on established scientific facts and not on some weak logical assumptions like yours. I have read and understood the basis of the theory of evolutions and so I am still convinced that darwin's theory is flawed and scientifically flawed.

          According to the theory of evolution, every living animals/creatures comes out from a predecessor. Each creatures which existed previously changed into something else over a period of time and all species have existed into being in this fashion. According to this theory, transformation happens slowly over millions of years

          If this were the case, then countless intermediate species should have lived during the period of time when these transformations were supposedly occurring. For example, there should have lived in the past some half-fish/half-reptile animals which had acquired some reptilian characteristics in addition to the fish characteristics they already had. Or there should have existed some reptile/bird creatures, which had acquired some avian traits in addition to the reptilian traits they already possessed. The atheist/evolutionist refer to these imaginary animals, which they believed to have lived in the past, as "transitional forms".

          If such creatures do really exist, there must have been millions, even billions, of them. But most importantly, the fossils of these animals should be present in the fossil record. The amount of these transitional forms should have been even more than that of present animal species, and we should be able to find their remains all over the world. In his own book entitled "The Origin of Species" Darwin himself accepted this fact and explained:

          "If my theory be true, numberless intermediate varieties, linking most closely all of the species of the same group together must assuredly have existed... Consequently evidence of their former existence could be found only amongst fossil remains."

          Even Darwin himself admitted the absence of such transitional forms. He wished that they would be found in the future. However, despite his optimism, he realized that these missing intermediate forms were the biggest stumbling-block for his theory. Furthermore, that is why he wrote the following in the chapter of the The Origin of Species entitled "Difficulties on Theory":

          "…Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?… But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?… Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory."

          My conclusion is, fossils are proof that evolution never take place at all and humans are humans from the day the universe was created. Humans have never been apes in fact there was not even a stone aged period, all these stories stemmed out from the imaginations of the atheist who worshipped materials as their "god".Unfortunately, this flawed theories are being taught to our children in schools in many countries all over the world. As the result, children were misguided and misinformed about the true facts of creations.

          As fossil record shows, living things came into being in a single moment, with all the characteristics they possess and never changed in the least for so long as the species survived. Birds have always existed as birds, fish as fish and insect as insects. There is no scientific validity to the claim that species develop slowly and by stages. God created all living things.

          PS: Nothing happened by chance, they must be the originator of a certain act. Can your guitar play " Smoke on the water" or "Highway Star" by itself when you didn't even strum the first string?

          Qamar
          Really-"established scientific fact"? I guess you've redefined "scientific fact" to mean "the opposite of established science fact ". Try to find a scientist who agrees with your "established fact", but make sure you have plenty of time on your hands-it's going to be a long quest. If you only talk to 1000 scientists you'll probably find 1000 that say evolution is the established fact.

          How would you know what my "weak logical assumptions" are, since I haven't stated assumptions. I merely pointed out the obvious flaws in yours. You reasoned that if evolution is false, it follows that creationism is true. There's a weak assumption for you. Setting aside for a second, the flaw in that logic, what did you offer as proof that evolution never happened? The fact that you looked at a picture of a preserved spider, and it looks the same to your expert eye as a spider today. Can you even name the species-or tell what color the spider was, or the texture and minute features on it's tiny body as you look at the photo shot through amber? Is that your "established scientific fact"?

          You seem to be so anxious to take everything you see as evidence for what you believe that facts like what species you're even looking at don't matter. Nor does the fact that for evolution to be true, it does not require that all creatures evolve at the same rate, nor for all mutations to be extreme and obvious.

          Farmers that use pesticides know more about evolution than you do: they see it in bug populations that evolve into "super-bugs" that can resist the poisons.

          The fact is, there is a vast body of evidence supporting evolution-fossil and otherwise. That is why it is considered established fact among scientists.

          As for Darwin's theory being scientifically flawed, it would be more accurate to say it was incomplete, as most theories are the same generation they are posited. As XtremXpert pointed out, much research has been done since Darwin, and if all you know of evolution is from him, you are obviously uninterested in the topic, other than to try to find bits to support what you already think.

          Obviously you are going to believe what you believe regardless of inconvenient facts, but asserting your belief in bold print certainly does nothing to help establish your faith as science fact. Nor does denying the evidence. I suppose it might sway some extremely impressionable person. Good luck in your recruiting efforts.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Originally Posted by Qamar View Post

          You have just proven that those insects which were trapped in the amber balls 50 million years ago are the very same spiders that can be found today! Which means there have been NO EVOLUTIONS taken place to those insects or for that matter to all living things including humans.

          Spiders or insects 50 million ago are the same with the spiders and insects in this PRESENT day! There is no evolution.
          Qamar
          Originally Posted by Qamar View Post

          As fossil record shows, living things came into being in a single moment, with all the characteristics they possess and never changed in the least for so long as the species survived.
          Humans, 50 million years ago? Not on this planet.

          You do contradict yourself. However that is understandable. Self-contradiction is one of the dominant traits of the followers of Abrahamic Mythology.

          Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    DUH!!!!!

    @Bravo... just noticed that it IS Django Reinhardt 2 days later... I dont know whether to apologize or pat myself on the back. Thanks man. He is really the guy that Jazz was built upon. I def consider him the father of Jazz.
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    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      John, every once in a while, I remind myself how ignorant I really am towards certain things.
      I have been listening to Hendrix for the past 20 years and really believed he was the alpha and omega of guitar music, until I discovered Django.
      I had no idea how influential this guy actually was.

      Jimi actually named his Band Of gypsies after Django.

      If you listen to the Jimi's Woodstock improvisation/Villanova Junction you can clearly hear that it is heavily influenced by Django Reinhardt.

      For some people, this might not mean very much, for me, it's a revelation.
      You learn something new everyday, I guess. Enough thread hijacking, let's get back to Amber guitar picks.


      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      DUH!!!!!

      @Bravo... just noticed that it IS Django Reinhardt 2 days later... I dont know whether to apologize or pat myself on the back. Thanks man. He is really the guy that Jazz was built upon. I def consider him the father of Jazz.
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      DUH!!!!!

      @Bravo... just noticed that it IS Django Reinhardt 2 days later... I dont know whether to apologize or pat myself on the back. Thanks man. He is really the guy that Jazz was built upon. I def consider him the father of Jazz.

      Actually you were right the first time-it is a guy who was clearly influenced by Django, but definitely not Django himself.

      If Django is the father of jazz, it's odd that Lous Armstrong, King Oliver, all the ragtime people, etc, were older than, and recording before him. He was an important figure-the top guitarist of his day, but imo there no one person could be credited with creating jazz-and it's roots go way back to slaves brought over to America from Africa-not even on the same continent as Django. American blues-totally foreign to Django's culture, formed perhaps the most important ingredient that early jazz drew from.

      He did kick major booty, and had a heavy influence on a generation of guitarists though! He and Stephane Grapelli were probably the biggest reason for the rise in stature of Gypsy musicians, and contributed a unique European virtuoso flavor to jazz-drawing from the folk and classical traditions of numerous European cultures.
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      • Profile picture of the author bravo75
        Hey Greg,
        you've got me confused now. The guy in the video is not Django?
        If so, any idea who he is? Some of the best guitar playing I've ever heard.

        Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

        Actually you were right the first time-it is a guy who was clearly influenced by Django, but definitely not Django himself.

        If Django is the father of jazz, it's odd that Lous Armstrong, King Oliver, all the ragtime people, etc, were older than, and recording before him. He was an important figure-the top guitarist of his day, but imo there no one person could be credited with creating jazz-and it's roots go way back to slaves brought over to America from Africa-not even on the same continent as Django. American blues-totally foreign to Django's culture, formed perhaps the most important ingredient that early jazz drew from.

        He did kick major booty, and had a heavy influence on a generation of guitarists though! He and Stephane Grapelli were probably the biggest reason for the rise in stature of Gypsy musicians, and contributed a unique European virtuoso flavor to jazz-drawing from the folk and classical traditions of numerous European cultures.
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

          Hey Greg,
          you've got me confused now. The guy in the video is not Django?
          If so, any idea who he is? Some of the best guitar playing I've ever heard.
          I don't know him, but he might be one of the Rosenburgs-the Rosenburg trio are virtuosos that play traditional Gypsy style jazz-very strongly influenced by Django-as everyone in that style is.

          Since you like that so much, you might want to check out the film "The Legacy of Django Reinhardt" , or "Django's Legacy" (or something like that), which has lots of cool footage of great Gypsy players in Django's shadow. It has some really nice footage of the Rosenburgs when they were just kids whose hands weren't full grown-nonetheless getting around on the necks of their guitars better than most adults!

          It also has a cool scene of Django's son, who sadly, is no longer with us, playing a beautiful ballad on electric.

          Since you like Jimi, you might like these:

          Sorry if that was too much-can't resist:
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      • Profile picture of the author bravo75
        Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

        Actually you were right the first time-it is a guy who was clearly influenced by Django, but definitely not Django himself.

        If Django is the father of jazz, it's odd that Lous Armstrong, King Oliver, all the ragtime people, etc, were older than, and recording before him. He was an important figure-the top guitarist of his day, but imo there no one person could be credited with creating jazz-and it's roots go way back to slaves brought over to America from Africa-not even on the same continent as Django. American blues-totally foreign to Django's culture, formed perhaps the most important ingredient that early jazz drew from.

        He did kick major booty, and had a heavy influence on a generation of guitarists though! He and Stephane Grapelli were probably the biggest reason for the rise in stature of Gypsy musicians, and contributed a unique European virtuoso flavor to jazz-drawing from the folk and classical traditions of numerous European cultures.
        Just in case anyone is interested, I done a bit of research. The guy in the video I posted is a fellow named Stochelo Rosenberg.
        The original version of this improvisation is by Django.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Ancient Amber pick still not in.... the tele's gettin suspicious. Hope I didnt get ganked for 82 bucks by some sort of ancient pick scam artist!
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Ancient Amber pick still not in.... the tele's gettin suspicious. Hope I didnt get ganked for 82 bucks by some sort of ancient pick scam artist!
      The suspense is killing us all. Now I want an ancient amber pick too. For now, I have to settle for one made out of the dried remains of the gum that Jimi Hendrix can be seen chewing in the film of his famous performance at the Monterey Pop Festival. (At least that's what the guy I met at the psychic healing group who sold me the stuff said).
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Okay,

    "Coffee" Check!
    Dressed? Check!
    Mail box key? Check!

    Okay, Im headed out the door to see if the ole proverbial ancient amber 50 million year old pick came in today... will let you know!

    I bet you guys will be glad to see it come in so I will quit bumping this thread! lol
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Okay,

      "Coffee" Check!
      Dressed? Check!
      Mail box key? Check!

      Okay, Im headed out the door to see if the ole proverbial ancient amber 50 million year old pick came in today... will let you know!

      I bet you guys will be glad to see it come in so I will quit bumping this thread! lol
      Well did you get it?
      I got my Bodhran and it is a blast.
      Like I told my friends, if I sat down at a drum kit you can tell I've been a drummer for years. When I pick up the Bodhran you don't have a clue
      Now a week and a half later I can do rolls, triplets, a simple jig and a simple reel. I just ordered up my first pair of Bones this weekend
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Rock and roll! No the pick hasnt come in yet... Im a patient guy... but come on man! In the meantime, I have spent the week using a thumb pick and am thinking I might go 90% thumb pick in the future.... so why do I even need an amber flat pick now?

    Now if you heat up a thumkpick and lay it out flat, you can cut out its shape onto a peice of "tort" then bend that into a thumb pick.... Now we are talking.

    Got my eye on a perfect piece right now... "Hypothetically" it would make a great thumb pick!

    I want to make my own stuff!

    Glad you are having fun with your bodhran!!! Nothing like getting into some unique peices... Im gonna start collecting unique music acceessories... Making my own... My 52 tele (RI Sadly) is tha bomb... but I still want to build one myself.

    This below is a beauty. I would make a $300 thumbpick outta that! Eh...hemmm... I mean "hypothetically".

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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Damn you are patient
      I want to make my own stuff!
      I also I have access to a few different woods on or near my property that I'm planning on using to make tippers and bones (for now). In fact I bought the bones mentioned above more for a template then anything else.
      I took about 15 years off from drumming and am now approaching it like a beginner. Funny thing is I have no desire yet to get a kit, but am possessed with the idea of playing hand drums and other 'hand' percussion instruments like the Bones. Cool thing about that is you can make a hand drum out of just about anything. Another idea I'm playing with is making log drums for around my fire pit. Some you will be able to sit on and play others will be stand up drums. Just something more to annoy the neighbors
      This below is a beauty. I would make a $300 thumbpick outta that! Eh...hemmm... I mean "hypothetically".
      Go for it, I won't tell:rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Damn you are patient
        Funny thing is I have no desire yet to get a kit, but am possessed with the idea of playing hand drums and other 'hand' percussion instruments like the Bones. Go for it, I won't tell:rolleyes:
        As Sal Would say, its your primal man wanting to get skin to skin with the tone and be organic and authentic. In my 40's I would rather hear a few notes syncopated and well delivered, than a fast brillaint wild solo.... Tone....

        You are craving your musics earthiness. You want to touch it up close and feel it, life to life. Kinda like laying a baby on your chest and giving it that skin to skin heart to heart experience.... you are craving that primal thing.

        I think its maturity. It says you are growing beyond the icing, and you are getting down to the cake.

        Very cool for you.

        When you are young you have all kinds of ideals of "coolness" attached to music. When you are old, you truly get intimate with it without all the rock star ideals.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Can't argue with that John.
          Actually this is something that has been lying dormant in me for over forty years. The first drum instructor I had when I was ten said something that always stuck with me. The short version is you can make a drum out of anything. He then produced a wooden salad bowl he had made into a Timpani.
          I studied under him for two years and with the exception of the snare drum I had at home we never used a store bought drum.

          Like you already know,John.
          It's an incredible feeling to make music, but it's even better when something you made yourself is the instrument or used to play the instrument.
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          As you are I was, as I am you will be
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          • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
            Now you guys are talking....getting back to basics.

            John, you were talking building fine guitars....I went the other way.

            This particular one isn't mine, but I do own the Lowebow "Purgatory Hill Harp" #101 built by Mr John Lowe of Memphis....

            I've had a blast playing mine....and yes, it's electric

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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by Dave Patterson View Post


              What is that there some kinda city slicker, van halen lookin, ceegar box bass with broom sticks fer a neck.... yeah I see how that could work.... very sneaky you Alabama people.... next thing you know yall will be out selling Paul Reed Smith. Yall are like the chinese... Always trying to produce something more sophisticated. Well okay, gosh darnit, I can admit it.... looks like youn's went and done it.

              Seriously, though. Thats pretty cool.

              Here in Tha Ozarks we will make a mucycle instermunt out of purt near anything. We Kaint usally afford nothin faincy, ceptin them internet marketeers like JD that got $7,000 worth of guitars... we dont hate him, he earned it by spending 10 years on the warrior forum":


              Here's a cool one. Made from cardboard.
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  • Profile picture of the author links900
    @John Great shots i like it.as far as Dinosuar Bones collection is concerned i think its more of a story than reality. In btw its just my view no offence inteneded
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Isn't Ancient Amber that octogenarian stripper Dave Patterson always hires to entertain at his Friday night poker games?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Isn't Ancient Amber that octogenarian stripper Dave Patterson always hires to entertain at his Friday night poker games?
      No Kurt, it's ANNIE....Ancient Annie.
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    I like the guy with the cardboard bass. I like the way he presents his performance and then just walks off. If you ever get tired of bass, you can always play your bicycle.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    50 Million Year Old Guitar Pick FINALLY CAME IN TODAY in a nice setting... with all kinds of case candy... certificate of authenticity...

    I must tell you its BEAUTIFUL!!!! I have been holding it in my hand all day. It almost glows like fluorescent style in the light. A thing of beauty and wonder indeed. Its more beautiful than the pic, sounds great really nice warm tone....and after comparing it to other picks it increases speed with the way it rolls over the string and doesnt snag... or CLICK...

    Plus its just damn amazing to hold in your hand...it feels good.

    Not tort shell but its equal in some areas... similar but different. Tort feels harder a bit. This is fifty million years old, the most amazing thing is that you know its hard as all get out, but it feels soft in your hands.... really freaky.

    Would say more but havent got to play much... lots of work... Had to stop by and say I got it today and I love it! Def would like another one... maybe a different gauge, a little thinner.


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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    distinction #2: translucent guitar pics are very easy to lose.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      distinction #2: translucent guitar pics are very easy to lose.

      Tell us it ain't so, John.
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      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Tell us it ain't so, John.
        I could tell ya that.... but it wouldnt be true. It will probably turn up!
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  • Profile picture of the author kilfincelt
    In 1701 a room in the Catherine Palace of Tsarskoye Selo near St. Petersburg had panels decorated in amber. During WWII, the Russians tried to hide the panels from the Nazis but failed. The Nazis removed them and took them to Konigsberg in East Prussia. When the war ended, attempts to locate them failed. No one knows what happened although the belief is that the panels were destroyed when the castle was destroyed.

    In 1979 the old Soviet Union began rebuilding the room.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I found it again a couple of weeks ago..

    I must say after 35 years of guitar playing, that those who say Tortoise shell doesnt play better... Have never spent any significant time with a genuine tort pick....

    There is a HUGE difference... after about 20 years of guitar playing I joined the class that believes the Mallot is just as important as the bell...".

    "Now" I can tell you I like Amber BETTER, after having played with this pic for weeks...and though some will spend 2k on a guitar and buy a 25 cent pick for it... I WILL ALWAYS USE AMBER ON MY ACCOUSTiCS FROM NOW ON.

    I Like it better than tortoise shell.... and certanly better than plastic... Plastic doesnt mean much if its all you know... But there is a DIFFERENCE , just like the difference in ebony and pine on an instrument.

    I LOVE AMBER PICKS!!! They are my main stay for accoustic from now on!

    Just wanted to say, that if you ever get an Amber pick you will LOVE IT, but it might take an hour of playing before you truly appreciate everything it does! Once you "get" whats happening , and the difference you will guard your amber pick with your life, because you will not be able to imagine playing without it... Its like my acoustics soulmate now!
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Amber is fascinating, it would be nice if the scenario depicted in Jurassic Park could come true in our lifetime, imagine dinosaurs walking around today!
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    This thread deserves a
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Bumping this for Big Rob

    By the way, I still have that original Amber pick and it still kicks butt!

    I have found another one though, just as good- "Vpicks"- 11 bucks.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    It's interesting to note that, I had ZERO intention of optimizing this thread for anything... Yet it went to number one on google for "Ancient Baltic Amber" a few years ago.... and sold that website out of Amber picks... If I could do stuff like that on purpose it would be awesome!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    "Ancient Amber" is also the professional name of Claude's favorite day time hooker in Wooster, with over 70 years of experience.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      "Ancient Amber" is also the professional name of Claude's favorite day time hooker in Wooster, with over 70 years of experience.
      He's such a Sap
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