Hey Sal...Here Are The Results Of Our Entry

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Even though I'm done with this business, I certainly owe you this much for all
the hard work you put into writing these lyrics.

Okay, here is what the judges had to say...

"Like other entries, this shows flashes of brilliance and I appreciate your
raw and unique musical approach. But to whom this song is directed to or
why is not clearly understood. You might also note that in order for the
listener to understand your lyric, they would have to have prior knowledge
to what you're writing/singing about. This approach doesn't work for those
of us who have no inside knowledge of which these lines refer to or the
context of a larger story. So, if your goal is to connect with a wider
audience, you can't simply assume we'll know whom or what you're talking
about. You'll need to provide a clear setup and understandable line-to-line
logic to help us follow the story


Overall, the song received a 6.277 score. Among the 10 songs I submitted
it came in 8th.

One thing I should point out is that your lyrics, for originality, got a 9
out of 10.

Only one of my own lyrics scored that high.

Where you need to work is on your lyrical structure and that will probably
come over time if you study the craft and actually learn how to write
structured lyrics. You've clearly proven that you have the imagination to
come up with some great songs if this is your first whack at it.

My best entry, ironically, was my show tune, scoring 7.44.

Maybe I'm just trying to write the wrong kind of music. My weak areas,
according to the judges, are not in my melodies but in my lyrics and stories.

They are either not original enough or not detailed enough.

That has been a common criticism of most of my songs. Too much inside
knowledge needed to know what the singer is singing about.

Here is what they said about my "best" entry, "I'm Not A Nerd"

There are lots of smart lines in this lyric and the basic idea is excellent.
Verse 2 is s stand-out. However, the song would be stronger if it were
more compact and effectively focused. By the end, the same idea is
repeated over and over, and the melodic structure starts to feel overlong.
Be concise. Write for clarity and impact. These are keys to great
songwriting. You have exceptional talent. I hope we'll hear more from you
in the years to come. Keep writing and learning the craft


Probably the best comments I've gotten in 30 plus years.

I do understand what I need to do, and this is no knock on you Sal.

I clearly have many flaws in my writing, especially in my lyrics, which seem
to consistently score lower than my music with few exceptions.

I either have to really knuckle down and force myself to write better lyrics,
which I think will, in turn, create better music, or I need to find a lyricist who
really knows his or her craft and can write lyrics that inspire me to write
great music, which I know I can do.

Two of my worst entries were songs I wrote to other people's lyrics. This
can't be a coincidence. I clearly either don't have the right kind of material
to write to OR I simply can't write for other people unless they are the top
professionals in the business. Point is, I write better when I write for myself
and always have.

Trouble with that is that my lyrics are still greatly flawed and until I can
improve them, I'm always going to be a 6 to 8 songwriter at best. I think I
had one song (one Caliban helped me with) that scored an 8 plus last year.

Everything else was in the 7s.

Ironically, my entries from last year scored higher. And I really thought
some of these songs were better

Anyway, if anybody wants to hear any of the other entries, I'm be happy
to post them.

Here are the 10 songs from best to worst.

I'm Not A Nerd - 7.44
When The Morning Comes Around - 7.33
Super Hero - 7.22
Spot In The Shade - 7.167
Killing Me - 7.11
Knife Through The Heart - 7
Puppet On A String - 6.44 (My personal favorite)
Freeze - 6.277
California - 6
Together Again - 5.56

Sal, for whatever it's worth, I love our song (my 6th favorite overall from
all the songs I've ever written.)

I hope that means something.
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    You have exceptional talent. I hope we'll hear more from you in the years to come.
    Wow, that's pretty impressive stuff.

    Anyway, very well done, both of you. (I'm really glad you posted this - and the rest - here, Steven).
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Have to agree, pretty awesome.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Wow Steve. They couldn't tell who the lyrics would be referring to? LOL. Whatever. Guess I didn't rage hard enough, eh?

    Still and all - a 9 out of 10 - I can live with. After all - I was the first to admit that I had not one whit of a clue what I was doing.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Wow Steve. They couldn't tell who the lyrics would be referring to? LOL. Whatever. Guess I didn't rage hard enough, eh?

      Still and all - a 9 out of 10 - I can live with. After all - I was the first to admit that I had not one whit of a clue what I was doing.
      The judges are very picky, but they have to be. I understand. There are a lot
      of talented people out there and they're comparing us to the best of the
      best.

      While I didn't like this year's overall winner, I have to admit that the pop
      winner was excellent. I wish I could write like that.

      It's no sin to admit that your talent (my talent actually) only goes so far.

      I may not write well enough to be a professional song writer, though I do
      feel that you, as a lyricist, have real potential, but I sure as hell am not
      the worst writer in the world either.

      I have one published song and two song contest awards to prove that.

      And yeah, I know...I'm supposed to be writing for myself and not for some
      recognition or approval, but it's nice to hear somebody say to you, "Hey,
      that's a really good song...I like it."

      Otherwise, we're simply living our lives for ourselves.

      And to me...that's not living.

      It's existing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        It's funny how we have selective memories.

        I said that last year's entries were better, and while the overall average was
        better, last year I had only 4 of 10 songs score 7 or better.

        This year, I had 6.

        So maybe I am getting better.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        I may not write well enough to be a professional song writer, though I do
        feel that you, as a lyricist, have real potential, but I sure as hell am not
        the worst writer in the world either.
        Thank you, Steve. I really appreciate those words. I don't feel bad about not winning. I know absolutely jack about music. Perhaps if I were to get some learning about the subject I could write lyrics - but I don't see that ever becoming my field.

        What you did by asking me to write lyrics allowed me to delve into a very different world for a few minutes. It's been an interesting ride. If I ever feel so inspired I might try it again, but I wouldn't count on seeing my songs on the charts.

        Thanks for the experience, though. It definitely was a good time.
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        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Banned
    I know sometimes you think you'll never make it, Steven W.

    However I think that if you keep going and "compromise" ¾ such as teaming up with people (lyricist, music partner, etc.) ¾ You can still be relatively successful. The song contest wasn't a complete failure, especially considering you got some good feedback/advice.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Steven,

      Here's where you screwed up...:p

      You didn't submit "What Have You Done For Me Lately".

      When I made the video for that tune I had to listen to it over and over and over and over again to get the sync correct.

      I never got tired of it, and I still hummed it for months. (My brain is humming it as I write this )

      That tune has potential.

      Just sayin'...
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

        Steven,

        Here's where you screwed up...:p

        You didn't submit "What Have You Done For Me Lately".

        When I made the video for that tune I had to listen to it over and over and over and over again to get the sync correct.

        I never got tired of it, and I still hummed it for months. (My brain is humming it as I write this )

        That tune has potential.

        Just sayin'...
        Bill, here were my song entries from last year and their results.

        Stuck Into Drive - 7.28
        Drop Dead Blonde - 7.22
        Hang On Irene - 7.06
        What Have You Done For Me Lately? - 7.00
        Hey Suzy - 6.89
        There Goes Another One - 6.89
        Can't Rock In Alcatraz - 6.83
        Rise Of Nations - 6.78
        Another Night In Vegas - 6.67
        Panic At The Disco - 6.44

        As you can see, WHYDFML was my 4th highest scorer but nothing to
        write home to mother about.

        Overall, this year's entries scored better as I had more songs over 7, but
        for overall average, last year's was more consistent.

        Oh well, it's all water under the bridge anyway.

        When my best scoring tune ever is a Broadway show tune, it's obvious that
        I'm not really a rock and roller.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Steven,

          Did it ever occur to you that the problem may lie on THEIR end? :p
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

            Steven,

            Did it ever occur to you that the problem may lie on THEIR end? :p
            Actually, when I read their criticisms, they make sense.

            You need to understand that there is a lot of talent out there. Believe me, I
            know...I hear it every single day.

            So when you have a lot of talent and a lot of "good" songs, you have to
            start getting nit picky to separate the great from the good.

            I read the comments of a couple of my songs, particularly "Super Hero"
            and "When The Morning Comes Around" and taking away their little nit
            picks, these two songs have definite hit potential or at the very least,
            enough potential to get interest from a publisher.

            I have no doubt that I have about 3 or 4 songs in my collection, based on
            their criticisms, that I could confidently send to publishers, if I really took the
            time to do this right, and get a song deal out of somebody.

            As to whether or not those songs every get recorded, well, that's another
            thing entirely.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
              And yeah, I know...I'm supposed to be writing for myself and not for some
              recognition or approval, but it's nice to hear somebody say to you, "Hey,
              that's a really good song...I like it."
              Steven, don't we count? There are lots of us who have said that to you about a good number of your songs. I don't know about anyone else, but I mean it when I say it.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                So when you have a lot of talent and a lot of "good" songs, you have to start getting nit picky to separate the great from the good.
                That's the nature of judging contests, isn't it?

                If they posted rave reviews about all your entries - wouldn't you be asking "if they are so great, why didn't I win?".

                When experts post critiques they point out highs, lows and hesitations they felt. When it comes to art and music, opinion are always subjective and often personal even for experienced judges.

                The comments as I read them were much more positive than negative but when you are reading about your own efforts, it's natural to focus on anything that seems less than positive. Doesn't mean that is more important but only that you see it as "louder" at first.

                kay
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                Banned
                I'd be interested in hearing “I’m not a nerd.” (Sounds interesting.)
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                • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                  Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                  I'd be interested in hearing "I'm not a nerd." (Sounds interesting.)
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                  • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
                    Steven,

                    I won a $5,000 song contest where the judge was particularly impressed by the lyrics, so if you are ever looking for a lyricist . . .


                    Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    You probably cringe looking back at some of your old articles, and there are also people who are like you were then, who look at you now and say "I should leave article writing to those with real talent..."

    YOU know though that the more they write the better they get... you also know that 100 failed articles is enough to scare most off.... but that everynow and then theres that one who will keep writing hundreds and hundreds of articles and getting better and better until 10,000 articles later he is WORLD CLASS...

    You may also know that some articles do better than others but if you put enough out, now and then you get that diamond in the rough that is nothing short of legendary brilliance, maybe even divinely inspired.

    Cant always be in the zone, but if you work alot, you cant help but be in it sometimes...

    Thats how your hit song happens. I have good ones, sucky ones... everynow and then theres an AWESOME one, that wouldnt have come without going through all the sucky ones...

    keep rockin bro.

    When the moss grows on the east side of the bamboo tree and the ferret is dry from its many swims in the river.... then I will return to you.

    Many campho phyniques to all!
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