The all too famous, "PayPal took my money" situation... UPDATE: I WIN I WIN!!!!!!!!!

by Brenden Clerget 176 replies
BRENDEN VICTORY! Update: 4/28/2011

After multiple calls to corporate numbers, emailing their vice president, media relations, corporate offices, I just received a phone call.

It was from an Executive Escalations Agent, and he let me know he has personally reviewed my account and deemed that I am not "high risk" as they previously thought, and that all limitations have been lifted from my account and my account has been noted as not to be limited again.

See: A little effort goes a long way.

I will be writing a brief guide on how to get through to companies like this, what I did, what you can do if this happens, the steps I took.

My account is unlimited, money has been returned, and permanently associated with an agent that I can personally call if anything happens in the future.

VICTORY!


-----------------------------------

Edit: 4/27, 3:11 PST

*** Attention Warriors ***

I've started a website dedicated to bringing this all to light. If there are some of you that have been affected by PayPal, any lawyers in the community that would like to help other Warriors, or anybody that wants to be a part or help out, feel free to check in on the domain periodically.

Bear with me, I'll be getting everything set up over the next 48 hours.

Access the website here: www DOT FightPaypal DOT com
(Do not link directly to it so board crawlers don't end up there)

Also: I've started a Skype group. Add me at brenden.clerget and I can add you to the Skype group.

Hopefully this turns into something that ends up bringing everything to light.

--------------------------------------
Original message:

Well...

Never thought I'd see the day. I run a legitimate offline business with paying offline clients, and sell legitimate products...

They called me this morning and apparently I missed it because my phone was off, so they limited my account. They said they would have a senior agent contact me once I had it escalated to that status after multiple calls to their support people and not to worry, it was routine.

Now I get an email, without a phone call, outside of normal operating hours, saying that my account has been closed and they're holding my money for 180 days.

I'll keep everybody updated, but my lawyer has already been notified and notarized some documents to fax them in the morning.

I smell it all hitting the fan tomorrow morning, I'm going to rain hell on them like never before. I've heard of people getting in trouble for breaking terms of service, but I haven't broken any terms of service, nor do I scam people, and my refund rates are less than 2%....

So - anybody experienced this with positive outcomes? If not, I guess I have a precedent to set.

Time to make some changes PayPal, or get sued... for FARRRRRR more than what you've withheld from me.

I fought the PayPal and... ______ won....
#off topic forum #famous #paypal took my money #serious #situation
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  • Very interesting indeed! I had a little issue with them last month after years of use. We sorted it out but I lost business because of it and was not impressed at all.

    I'll be interested what happens with your situation as I'm sure many others will be also.

    Old Dog
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian Varnava
    Well, yes, the all too famous "PayPal took my money situation" is real when it happens to you. The thing is, there's just as many people who say "it will never happen to me because I'm so legitimate" as there are who say "PayPal is holding my money hostage for no reason".

    Well over a decade ago, when PayPal was a fairly new company, I used to sell stuff on eBay (regular stuff, nothing shady). They once 'restricted' my account after I received payment from a buyer who had bought something from me on eBay. Why? Because the BUYER was (supposedly) engaging in "suspicious activities" on their PayPal account. NOTHING to do with me, but the buyer who bought something from me on eBay. At that time, I already had about $2500 of my own in my PayPal account.

    Long story short, they wanted my entire life history faxed to them, such as bank statements, social security card, driver's license, bla bla bla, and I sent them each and every thing they asked for. End result? That particular account is still restricted to this day, and they still owe me that $2500. I never got anywhere with it, and they didn't have phone support at that time either, so it was all e-mail or snail mail.

    Since then I moved and what not and all my information changed besides my name, I opened another PayPal account about a year after the incident and it's been going fine since. But, I make it a point to never keep any real amount of money in my PayPal account, because you never know when they'll decide to pull a stunt.

    So, I personally don't really care for PayPal much, but I use them when I need to because it's a necessity on the Internet today, I still sell stuff on eBay here and there plus paying writers / VA's etc, PayPal is the preferred way and there's not much of a way around it.

    I hope you didn't have a life-altering amount of money in your account and I wish you the best in getting your account back!
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    • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
      Originally Posted by Old Dog New Tricks View Post

      Very interesting indeed! I had a little issue with them last month after years of use. We sorted it out but I lost business because of it and was not impressed at all.

      I'll be interested what happens with your situation as I'm sure many others will be also.

      Old Dog
      Yeah, I'm interested as well. Got my hands on the "Risk Assessment" department head's personal line. Going to be giving some calls to the high ups because I'm not letting this just fall to the wayside.

      Originally Posted by Ian Varnava View Post

      Well, yes, the all too famous "PayPal took my money situation" is real when it happens to you. The thing is, there's just as many people who say "it will never happen to me because I'm so legitimate" as there are who say "PayPal is holding my money hostage for no reason".

      Well over a decade ago, when PayPal was a fairly new company, I used to sell stuff on eBay (regular stuff, nothing shady). They once 'restricted' my account after I received payment from a buyer who had bought something from me on eBay. Why? Because the BUYER was (supposedly) engaging in "suspicious activities" on their PayPal account. NOTHING to do with me, but the buyer who bought something from me on eBay. At that time, I already had about $2500 of my own in my PayPal account.

      Long story short, they wanted my entire life history faxed to them, such as bank statements, social security card, driver's license, bla bla bla, and I sent them each and every thing they asked for. End result? That particular account is still restricted to this day, and they still owe me that $2500. I never got anywhere with it, and they didn't have phone support at that time either, so it was all e-mail or snail mail.

      Since then I moved and what not and all my information changed besides my name, I opened another PayPal account about a year after the incident and it's been going fine since. But, I make it a point to never keep any real amount of money in my PayPal account, because you never know when they'll decide to pull a stunt.

      So, I personally don't really care for PayPal much, but I use them when I need to because it's a necessity on the Internet today, I still sell stuff on eBay here and there plus paying writers / VA's etc, PayPal is the preferred way and there's not much of a way around it.

      I hope you didn't have a life-altering amount of money in your account and I wish you the best in getting your account back!
      Yeah it wasn't "life altering" but it was around 8 or 9 grand or so. Still, it would be nice to have that money to pay some bills and buy a couple things I need for my office.

      Ohhhhhhhhhhh PayPal you messed with the wrong kid this time, promise...
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    • Profile picture of the author hashif16
      Originally Posted by Ian Varnava View Post

      Well, yes, the all too famous "PayPal took my money situation" is real when it happens to you. The thing is, there's just as many people who say "it will never happen to me because I'm so legitimate" as there are who say "PayPal is holding my money hostage for no reason".

      Well over a decade ago, when PayPal was a fairly new company, I used to sell stuff on eBay (regular stuff, nothing shady). They once 'restricted' my account after I received payment from a buyer who had bought something from me on eBay. Why? Because the BUYER was (supposedly) engaging in "suspicious activities" on their PayPal account. NOTHING to do with me, but the buyer who bought something from me on eBay. At that time, I already had about $2500 of my own in my PayPal account.

      Long story short, they wanted my entire life history faxed to them, such as bank statements, social security card, driver's license, bla bla bla, and I sent them each and every thing they asked for. End result? That particular account is still restricted to this day, and they still owe me that $2500. I never got anywhere with it, and they didn't have phone support at that time either, so it was all e-mail or snail mail.

      Since then I moved and what not and all my information changed besides my name, I opened another PayPal account about a year after the incident and it's been going fine since. But, I make it a point to never keep any real amount of money in my PayPal account, because you never know when they'll decide to pull a stunt.

      So, I personally don't really care for PayPal much, but I use them when I need to because it's a necessity on the Internet today, I still sell stuff on eBay here and there plus paying writers / VA's etc, PayPal is the preferred way and there's not much of a way around it.

      I hope you didn't have a life-altering amount of money in your account and I wish you the best in getting your account back!
      Mr x did some "suspicious activities" and Mr y recieves money from Mr x, now they are limiting account of Mr y for the bad work done by Mr x..what is the logic behind this...
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by Ian Varnava View Post

      They once 'restricted' my account after I received payment from a buyer who had bought something from me on eBay. Why? Because the BUYER was (supposedly) engaging in "suspicious activities" on their PayPal account. NOTHING to do with me, but the buyer who bought something from me on eBay. At that time, I already had about $2500 of my own in my PayPal account.
      THats happened to me as well. The buyer was so called "questionable" and they held my money. I gladly told paypal I'd refund it, but that wasn't good enough.

      I guess paypal is just overally parnoid, but one thing is for sure, their logic and reasoning for holding money sometimes is just ridiculous and we as consumers just let them. Its bout time someone fought back. I'm rooting for ya!!
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  • Profile picture of the author gotti3636
    That is why I always empty my PayPal account on a regular basis once I reach about $20,000 Not worth risking PayPal holding your funds.

    I hope it all works out!
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  • Profile picture of the author spectrefax
    Seeing all these threads has made me 100% certain that my primary processor on my first project is going to be Google.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
      Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post

      Seeing all these threads has made me 100% certain that my primary processor on my first project is going to be Google.
      Agree 100%, as soon as I get my money back no more paypal for me. I even PAY THEM for a merchant account and enchanced payment services.

      What a FLIPPIN joke.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    Originally Posted by darkshark View Post

    Another PayPal victim. 4 days ago they locked my 180$ too:rolleyes: But PayPal is something that we can't live with it and can't live without it.I am so tired of PayPal.
    The thing that blows my mind is I've regularly done 2-3k in sales with them monthly, I do 10k+ one month, they review me, call me, I miss the call, and over a missed call, they now lock my stuff up?

    Seems kinda twisted to me, considering I also have a merchant account and they KNOW I'm going to be doing huge volumes.

    Oh I can't wait to wake up and call them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    Yep - been there!!! That's why it annoys me when people say it will only happen if you are doing something to break their rules - that isn't the case. This can happen to anyone any time. I would never rely on Paypal for my business again. I had a number of subscriptions that I lost as many customers didn't sign up to my new payment processor, so it wasn't just the money they held, it's also the business that you lose during the process.

    Of course, you always end up with some customers that assume you have done something bad and that you are a scammer if this happens to you. I had one customer proceed to bad mouth me all over the net and called me a scammer when she heard my Paypal account was limited.

    It sucks - I really hope you get it sorted fast and get your money back. I use 2checkout now and have been happy with them.
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    • Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

      I use 2checkout now and have been happy with them.
      Same thing happened to me with 2checkout a few years back. Almost 8 thousand dollars and I got back a little over 2 thousand of it about 6 months later. This can happen with any payment processor.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
        Originally Posted by Bradley J Anderson View Post

        Same thing happened to me with 2checkout a few years back. Almost 8 thousand dollars and I got back a little over 2 thousand of it about 6 months later. This can happen with any payment processor.
        don't go telling me things like that! So far I've been ok with 2checkout, I've had a better experience with them than I have with Paypal.
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        • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
          Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

          don't go telling me things like that! So far I've been ok with 2checkout, I've had a better experience with them than I have with Paypal.
          Have you ever had to call them? Their phone support was horrible to me.(2CO)

          Caleb
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      • Profile picture of the author THK
        Originally Posted by Bradley J Anderson View Post

        Same thing happened to me with 2checkout a few years back. Almost 8 thousand dollars and I got back a little over 2 thousand of it about 6 months later. This can happen with any payment processor.
        True, it can happen with any payment processor. But your one is the first real post I have seen against 2CO as oppose to countless threads and hundreds of stories I heard about paypal.

        So I have to hand it over to Paypal, they are good at this

        Tanvir
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    • Profile picture of the author Devid Farah
      Paypal is dangerous.

      That's the reason why i withdraw money from them every single day.

      I feel your pain...a similar situation happened to a friend of mine(a ghostwriter).

      Paypal froze his account and literally stole from him $11,000 without ANY apparent reason.

      After this bad experience he wrote an ebook about this and made TONS.

      Devid
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  • Profile picture of the author niravmehta
    I guess the best bet is your bank account (oh well, we never know which one goes down either, but that for another day).. So I would always withdraw money to my bank account regularly.

    Been using both PayPal and 2CO for over a decade. Haven't had a problem with either, but I sure want to be safe.. And I would do that for any payment processor for that matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author gotti3636
    I bet this thread has made everyone empty their account haha
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    • Profile picture of the author theplugindude
      Originally Posted by gotti3636 View Post

      I bet this thread has made everyone empty their account haha

      Just emptied mine...
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    • Profile picture of the author iuditg
      Originally Posted by gotti3636 View Post

      I bet this thread has made everyone empty their account haha
      Dude I agree. After reading the whole thread, I requested withdrawal immediately.

      Daam I feel bad for those people who have worked hard and lost thousands for dollar
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Miranda
      Originally Posted by hpgoodboy View Post

      Yep. That is what I did. And I have set it to auto-sweep now.
      I have been doing this also for some time but some people have that withdrawing frequently most of your balance could make Paypal flag your account. They want some money in there to cover refunds and chargebacks?

      How do you setup 'auto sweep' or auto withdrawal in Paypal? Never could figure it out.
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      • Profile picture of the author zajacik
        I have been with PP almost since day 1 and had no negatives whatsoever then one day six months ago they starting freezing 30% for 90 days. For course it was for my protection... today it continues. Emailing customer service was like talking to a brick wall.

        I use STP every chance I get and rarely, if at all, use PP for anything large. By the way, withdrawing funds regularily will not necessarily help, if they thought you were a bad guy they have the right to request funds back from your bank account. don't leave lots of money in any account tied to PP. Between Google and PP they could stop the world if they wanted to.

        Ray
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        • Profile picture of the author WayneT
          Originally Posted by zajacik View Post

          I have been with PP almost since day 1 and had no negatives whatsoever then one day six months ago they starting freezing 30% for 90 days. For course it was for my protection... today it continues. Emailing customer service was like talking to a brick wall.

          I use STP every chance I get and rarely, if at all, use PP for anything large. By the way, withdrawing funds regularily will not necessarily help, if they thought you were a bad guy they have the right to request funds back from your bank account. don't leave lots of money in any account tied to PP. Between Google and PP they could stop the world if they wanted to.

          Ray
          I contacted my bank about this after a problem with PP, now there is a limit that they can take out of my acct and they cannot automatically take unlimited funds from my acct. I had this done by my bank (they recommended it) as it appears that they (PP) do this a lot.
          Whether the banks are not happy with PP or just fed up with them is anyones guess but here's how I did it,
          1) Contacted the bank,
          2) ASKED them for their help on this matter,
          3)They (the bank) put a stop on PP in my acct,
          4) Use a Visa Debit card with limited funds in it, (PP are allowed to make you keep a certain amount of money for charge backs etc in your acct, or the one they can take money from. This is standard across merchant accts whether on or offline and quite often a matter of policy)
          5)opened accts with multiple other FREE companies to spread the risk,(a good practice with any finance related business,
          5) Continued trading.

          I have had no troubles since then and the bank was happy to help me.
          Above all communicate with your bank and ASK for their help in this matter, they were happy to help and it took about 15 mins for this to happen.

          Wayne
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    • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
      Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

      Congratulations on your victory, Brenden. Did you ever get around to contacting your local news channels and media about your Paypal issues? Just wondering if you had done that, and whether that played any part in their decision to un-limit your account in what is undoubtedly a triumphant reversal!

      Paul
      I did contact them, haven't heard anything back. Seems they weren't interested.

      Originally Posted by hpgoodboy View Post

      Yep. That is what I did. And I have set it to auto-sweep now.
      Probably a good idea
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      • Profile picture of the author countonuspr
        Congratulations Brenden! Thanks for posting your success here and telling us which level you ended up getting through to. I am going to try this out!

        Paypal has cost me over $10,000 in actual money that can be calculated and at minimum $25,000 in damages. This would include things like tons of time (trying to resolve the issue with them, switching all my payment systems over to new processors, etc.), lost income from not being able to invest my money back into my business for 6 months (very conservative numbers), and not to mention unneeded stress. The $10,000+ is from rebills that were shut off when they shut down my accounts. When they shut you down they shut down all rebills.

        Also if you consider that I had a product in 3rd place in the DigiResults marketplace I lost out on a ton of new sales from affiliates as well, plus taking away the ability for me to promote WSO's, run a WSO on WarriorPlus, or promote anything through Rapid Action Profits. So that $25,000 in damages it cost me is highly conservative.

        I now tell my customers to expect to get shut down with Paypal. I tell them to use Paypal, but just plan on being shut down because if you have any semblance of success it will happen. Several other people I am close to in marketing has had similar issues with Paypal, so I am not speaking from something I don't know.

        I have 6 backups in place now. I use 2CheckOut.com, Clickbank.com (for many transactions under $100), my own merchant account (PowerPay understands Internet marketing), AlertPay, Amazon payment services, and Google Checkout. This may seem like overkill, but your payment process is how you get paid. They all tend to have issues though so have multiple options ready.

        I like Clickbank and 2Checkout.com because they do accept Paypal for you which is nice. You do pay higher fees and have to wait at least 7 days to see the funds, but it is nice.

        I don't get why Paypal thinks is it a good business model to freeze or shut down real legitimate business owners. When they shut me down I was on track to generate around $15,000 in fees for them! Yes, that is in profits or revenue for them since you pay them a fee for every transaction. So they cost themselves that. The crazy thing is my refund rate was under 2% like Brenden's was.

        They seem to enjoy creating problems rather than actually going after or focusing on problem accounts. They could literally cut their Limitations Department staff in half and save themselves lots of money in employee costs and lost revenues if they would just focus on problems with refund rates higher than 10% or even 5% for that matter. I wonder if their shareholders know this kind of garbage goes on.

        Also, in case you were wondering before any major product launch or push where I knew lots of money would be coming in I spoke to them. Also, I spoke to 4 different people the week they shut me down and they assured me all was fine with my account! They then shut me down for 6 months and proceeded to keep my money invested to collect interest for those 6 months as I still collected "Money Market" dispersements from them. This means they still had my money in their interest bearing account while it was frozen!

        Moderators please understand that I am speaking the truth here and not making up stuff about Paypal. These are real stories and legit questions people should have.

        If you are using Paypal proceed with caution and plan on getting shut down when you have success. Don't keep your balance too high and move money to your account when you can. Then once it gets into your bank account move it to another account that they can't touch.

        It is your money that you earned and that your customers legitimately paid you for, so don't let them touch it!

        Thanks Brenden for posting this!
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        • Profile picture of the author Jerry Roberts
          Can anyone run ballpark figures for the processors that Paul Counts listed?

          For a $100 purchase, what's the net payout to the seller, using:

          2CheckOut.com $
          Clickbank (after the $50 signup) $
          PowerPay $
          AlertPay $
          Amazon $
          Google Checkout $
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Just an arrogant ugly biz who now are thinking they are bigger than the market. I smell big trouble for them soon. Seems tens of thousands are not happy with this company any longer. I wouldn't touch them again. Basically they seem to be running a legal scam of sorts. No wonder they moved to Luxembourg. If still in the UK they would have had serious legal issued. The day they close shop I'll smile!
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    You are just a number to them. You might think $10k is alot to them it's peanuts...they have monkies working for them

    "
    Workers checklist at Paypal
    1) Phone client

    a) answers..talk to him or make rude noise and hang up.

    b) No answer...(one we like best) hang up cancel account. Call them "fraud" and we get to keep all their money. Best thing is they can do absolutely nothing about it. He,he..If they email, threat or phone simply say T.O.S. I told you this was the best bizz in the wordl!

    See you at the island for cocktials slaves

    Paypal CEO"

    The door is ripe for a paypal rival to step upto the plate! Seize this moment and kill them someone PLEASE!
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    you can say that again..I wonder how many tens of millions they make by just doing this?
    So I have to hand it over to Paypal, they are good at this
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  • Profile picture of the author aula
    Yes, probably if about 400 thousands people are all crying about the same company (Paypal) and you see on youtube and all over internet other thousand of people who say that Paypal took their money, I don't think that anyone would waste their time to make such long videos telling all their horror stories if it wouldn't be true...
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian Varnava
    I go a step further to make sure they don't pull any shady stunts as they're known to do.

    I have an account at a small local bank, where I keep no more than a low 2 figure amount at all times. That's the account I have linked with my PayPal account. So when I withdraw my hard-earned money, I almost immediately take it out and put it in a different bank account. They do have the ability to withdraw funds from your account as well.

    Just in case one day they decide I owe them an X amount for some bizarre reason and they're going to withdraw it from my account.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by Ian Varnava View Post

      I go a step further to make sure they don't pull any shady stunts as they're known to do.

      I have an account at a small local bank, where I keep no more than a low 2 figure amount at all times. That's the account I have linked with my PayPal account. So when I withdraw my hard-earned money, I almost immediately take it out and put it in a different bank account. They do have the ability to withdraw funds from your account as well.

      Just in case one day they decide I owe them an X amount for some bizarre reason and they're going to withdraw it from my account.
      That's the scary part about Paypal, I've heard of several cases where they have gone into your bank account and take out what they think is theirs. I can understand why you're taking such precautions, given your rocky history with them.

      They act for all intents and purposes like a bank, though they're not one. With all the power and dominance they have in the online marketplace, they really should be regulated more like a bank.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    I had them do that to me - I withdrew money regularly and when they limited my account they reversed my last withdrawal. That was one I didn't see coming
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  • Profile picture of the author MBizInc
    We've had some problems with PayPal too. And it seems it doesn't matter if the company is registered and verified, you can still get your account suspended or blocked, will all your e-earnings inside...

    Roxana
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  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    You will have problems with any financial processor. we have been in business for 12 years and had similar experience with many including with full blown merchant facilities.

    Why you would leave thousands of dollars in any account beats me.

    Anyhow we always just follow the process and except for one merchant account that wanted us to underwrite 5 million dollars we have resolved every situation.

    The problem is that we often take it all to personal. Just follow through the procedures in a business like manner and in the majority of cases it will work out.

    Jumping straight to suing will bring only grief and a lot of stress.

    Quentin
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  • Profile picture of the author askloz
    happened to me... we're in court proceedings now.

    Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

    Well...

    Never thought I'd see the day. I run a legitimate offline business with paying offline clients, and sell legitimate products....
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    By the way, in the PACER records, there are over 165 cases open/closed with the name "PayPal" returned.

    ..And that doesn't include all the cases. Interesting turn out.

    Caleb
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Miranda
    I too withdrawal money regularly to avoid this my fear is that they can go into your bank account and take the money back? Is this possible?

    Is there a way to setup automatic withdrawals to bank account?
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    • Profile picture of the author askloz
      there is NO way they can take the money back out of your account. they need a court subpena (did i spell that correctly? ) to do that.

      Originally Posted by Steven Miranda View Post

      I too withdrawal money regularly to avoid this my fear is that they can go into your bank account and take the money back? Is this possible?

      Is there a way to setup automatic withdrawals to bank account?
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      • Profile picture of the author David McKee
        Originally Posted by askloz View Post

        there is NO way they can take the money back out of your account. they need a court subpena (did i spell that correctly? ) to do that.
        That is correct, which they will not do if you have a legitimate beef with them and have the evidence to back it up, because then they will lose, and you may invite more scrutiny into their practices.

        And it does not matter if they are located in Luxembourg or Transylvania for that matter - if they do business in the US (for example) they are still going to have to toe the line according the to the law here.

        -DTM
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      • Profile picture of the author J Bold
        Originally Posted by askloz View Post

        there is NO way they can take the money back out of your account. they need a court subpena (did i spell that correctly? ) to do that.
        I agree but I think they could possibly stop a transfer you initiated before the paypal money reaches your account?

        Well at least I've heard of them doing it, not sure it's legal or not.
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      • Profile picture of the author paulie888
        Originally Posted by askloz View Post

        there is NO way they can take the money back out of your account. they need a court subpena (did i spell that correctly? ) to do that.
        Unfortunately, they can! I have heard of several cases where they've done it. They have far-reaching powers, almost like that of a bank, and they really need to be regulated like one!
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      • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
        Originally Posted by askloz View Post

        there is NO way they can take the money back out of your account. they need a court subpena (did i spell that correctly? ) to do that.
        Well I don't know if it is legal for them to do it or not but the DO! They did it to me. I withdrew money and a day later my account was limited and they reversed my withdrawal!
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      • Profile picture of the author webpromotions
        Originally Posted by askloz View Post

        there is NO way they can take the money back out of your account. they need a court subpena (did i spell that correctly? ) to do that.
        Perhaps Paypal UK (where you are from) has different rules, but that statement is absolutely 100% false in the US.
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        • Profile picture of the author askloz
          nah, it was a USA Paypal account.


          I'm sueing them for $1million in damages!

          they froze over $200k for no reason! and they still have it.

          Originally Posted by Doug English View Post

          Perhaps Paypal UK (where you are from) has different rules, but that statement is absolutely 100% false in the US.
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      • Profile picture of the author micromike
        not true... once you give them your account and a routing number (which you have to do to DEPOSIT money) then to all practical purposes, they ARE you... which means they can put it in, take it out, whatever.
        That's in the US, so I can't speak for other countries
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Have your lawyer send a firm letter to eBay's main counsel, with a copy of PayPal's TOS. Not answering a call, or having an answering machine, is likely not a basis for a 6 month fund limitation. Even WikiLeaks got their money from PayPal faster despite being declared a terrorist organization.
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    • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      Have your lawyer send a firm letter to eBay's main counsel, with a copy of PayPal's TOS. Not answering a call, or having an answering machine, is likely not a basis for a 6 month fund limitation. Even WikiLeaks got their money from PayPal faster despite being declared a terrorist organization.
      Hey Brian,

      I'm not sure if you can answer this. But have you been involved in law suits against PayPal in the past? (I'm wondering, because you might have some insights for us as well )

      Caleb
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    • Profile picture of the author LB
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      Have your lawyer send a firm letter to eBay's main counsel, with a copy of PayPal's TOS. Not answering a call, or having an answering machine, is likely not a basis for a 6 month fund limitation. Even WikiLeaks got their money from PayPal faster despite being declared a terrorist organization.
      But they do say they can suspend an account or hold funds for "any reason", correct?

      The only people I've seen have success getting their accounts back typically complained to their state's banking authority as Paypal usually has some form of license for money transmittal through them.

      Any other suggestions?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Yup - it happened to me.

    Had 2,100 bucks locked up in the account, did nothing wrong. It's STILL locked up.

    Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author kimmorc
    It's extremely frustrating to watch these "too big" businesses get away with treating their customers like dirt. They just don't care.

    In November 2010 my sister, who was in the process of losing her home, had her account closed by PayPal. She had an excellent 3 year sales history, with only a few chargebacks which were resolved favorably.

    PayPal stated their reason for closing the account was due to her CREDIT REPORT. They froze her entire balance at the time which was over $2,500 dollars.

    Please be careful should you continue to use this company as they are not "internet marketing" friendly. Keep your balance low at all times.
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    • Profile picture of the author doorkicker13
      If PayPal stole $xx,xxx from me I would be on a plane to Luxembourg with my Sig 229, game over.

      I got taken for $6,500 on eBay while I was in Iraq - worst feeling EVER.

      I think people need to start filing reports against PayPal with Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) | Home and other organizations.
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      • Profile picture of the author simonjwarner
        I got limited last year, after many fun phones, I called a lady in the states and had it sorted in day. The "paypal sucks" website has some good numbers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sardent
      The only thing such corporations understand is action.

      If you can't resolve the issue in a reasonable amount of "business" time, start filing complaints.

      Attorney General
      FTC
      Complaint Assistance Unit of the Division of Consumer Services of the Department of Consumer Affairs

      Paypal likes to play fast and loose, act like a bank or credit card company, except without any of the rules those have to follow.

      Better yet - get approved for Amazon payments. People trust Amazon.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by kimmorc View Post

      It's extremely frustrating to watch these "too big" businesses get away with treating their customers like dirt. They just don't care.

      In November 2010 my sister, who was in the process of losing her home, had her account closed by PayPal. She had an excellent 3 year sales history, with only a few chargebacks which were resolved favorably.

      PayPal stated their reason for closing the account was due to her CREDIT REPORT. They froze her entire balance at the time which was over $2,500 dollars.

      Please be careful should you continue to use this company as they are not "internet marketing" friendly. Keep your balance low at all times.
      I wonder what the real reason was. I'm not saying your sister did anything wrong, but that excuse is widely used by companies to shift the blame and give them a 'safe' excuse for what they did.
      If that was Paypal's real reason, they would of closed my account years ago
      In Jan. I put a car on the rode for the first time in 2 years.
      I went to the insurance company I have my bike insured with an had my old car insured with for over 5 years. They said because I didn't have car insurance for over a year, I was being placed in a high risk group:confused: I told them to f off.
      When I received a letter from them a week later they stated they would not issue me car insurance because of my credit rating. Yet I still have my motorcycle insurance with them and they don't have a problem taking my money for that.
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  • Profile picture of the author ladywriter
    Most of the writing sites, Fiverr, AND Warrior Forum WSOs use only Paypal, so I have no choice at the moment but to deal with them. The stranglehold they have in this arena is disgusting.

    I withdraw my money to my bank account as soon as it appears and I transfer the money to yet another account after that.

    I'm sorry this happened to you but I'm glad you are going to fight them on it.
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    • Profile picture of the author veeco
      keep us the update, hope you can win... because so far i don't see any people can win againts paypal due account limit/closed
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    • Profile picture of the author dark witness
      Originally Posted by rosegrower76 View Post

      Most of the writing sites, Fiverr, AND Warrior Forum WSOs use only Paypal, so I have no choice at the moment but to deal with them. The stranglehold they have in this arena is disgusting.

      I withdraw my money to my bank account as soon as it appears and I transfer the money to yet another account after that.

      I'm sorry this happened to you but I'm glad you are going to fight them on it.
      I know this is a novel thought easier for me to say that it would be to make happen in real life, but maybe it's time we start asking/demanding/putting pressure... whatever we can to get sites like fiverr etc to give us more options with payment processors.

      Anyway, no matter how big they think they are, it will catch up with them. I am sure of that. Big companies have fallen for their bad business thinking they can get away with anything.
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  • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
    Emptying your PayPal account every week/day won't do you any good if ever there is an issue. You have to have a bank account, plus a credit card associated with your PayPal account and they will just pull whatever they want from either of those, in the order given. They are one step ahead of you all the time

    I suppose you could bypass this by transerrring money between actual bank accounts daily and connect to a credit card with a rediculously low limit.
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    • Profile picture of the author David McKee
      Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

      Emptying your PayPal account every week/day won't do you any good if ever there is an issue. You have to have a bank account, plus a credit card associated with your PayPal account and they will just pull whatever they want from either of those, in the order given. They are one step ahead of you all the time

      I suppose you could bypass this by transerrring money between actual bank accounts daily and connect to a credit card with a rediculously low limit.
      Actually, if you have a credit card from a reputable bank, as well as a bank account that you watch, you can deny these transactions and you can state that the transaction was not authorized and most credit cards will reverse the charge back in your favor (with a possible 50 dollar charge). This will then either force PayPal to deal properly with the bank itself or back off.

      They are not as powerful as you think, but they sure like you to think that way. They do not control your bank or your credit card. You do.

      -DTM
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    I've often wondered what would happen if, for example, the Warrior Forum lost their Paypal account. Strange times.

    FWIW, Google Checkout closes accounts too, as does every other processor out there. I just read a guy got his Adwords account banned because someone complained about a sale through Google Checkout. It's insane.

    Paypal only understands litigation and reports to regulatory agencies. Nothing else matters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    Starting 3/25/2011, money from payments you receive will be placed in a pending balance for up to 21 days. By doing this, we're making sure that there's enough money in your account to cover potential refunds or claims.

    Even though you can't access the money right away, please ship orders quickly and communicate with your customers. After 21 days, you can withdraw money from each payment as long as the customer hasn't filed a dispute, chargeback, claim, return, or reversal.
    The money may be available sooner if:

    1. We can confirm that the item was delivered.
    2. Your buyer leaves positive feedback. (Applies only to eBay items)

    This change isn't necessarily permanent. We'll review your account every 35 days and re-evaluate if we should continue to hold your payments. If we decide to stop holding payments, we'll email you to let you know.

    Why are my payments being held?
    We reviewed your account and determined that there's a relatively higher than average risk of future transaction issues (such as claims, or chargebacks, or payment reversals). We understand that it may be inconvenient to have your payments temporarily held but please know that we didn't make this decision lightly.

    Before deciding to hold payments, we consider many factors. These factors include account and transaction activity, the rate of customer disputes, the type of business a seller runs, average delivery timeframes, customer satisfaction, performance and history.
    "Up to 21 days."

    They haven't released any funds from my account since 3/25. The good thing is that PayPal accounts for a small amount of my income.

    I've had a PayPal account since they started doing business. I always let them know when I'm expecting an increase in sales. I also have almost no refunds and haven't had a dispute in years. The only thing I did that might have triggered this is that I withdrew all but $100 daily.

    It would stink if I counted on these PayPal funds for cashflow.

    Their actions seem arbitrary. I think it could happen to anyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Frei
    I'm not sure if it helps but...
    My bank is paranoid and it has all online transactions blocked by default. So, I have to call them and unblock payments(for up to 10 days) every time I need it.

    That can be a solution against paypal-initiated withdrawals.
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  • Profile picture of the author fthomas137
    You all have to realize that paypal isn't a 'bank'. This doesn't condone their activities, but you have to remember it's like leaving money in some corporate business safe. There's no guarantees to security like a bank, no guarantees if they do funny stuff, well you get the point. My recommendation is to have a two layer isolation to paypal and your accounts. When my paypal reached a limit, I'll withdraw 80% into the first bank account. I'll leave 20% for purchases and refunds.

    Next, I'll do an online transfer from one account to another. This account paypal does not have access too. This allows me to provide a layer of isolation.

    Maybe excessive, but paypal foolishness now becomes more of an annoyance then a show stopper.

    But I am sorry to hear your horror stories - had a few with paypal of my own.

    F
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    • Profile picture of the author askloz
      not officially no, but they offer interest accounts and debit cards, so they're trying to act like one.

      Originally Posted by fthomas137 View Post

      You all have to realize that paypal isn't a 'bank'. This doesn't condone their activities, but you have to remember it's like leaving money in some corporate business safe. There's no guarantees to security like a bank, no guarantees if they do funny stuff, well you get the point. My recommendation is to have a two layer isolation to paypal and your accounts. When my paypal reached a limit, I'll withdraw 80% into the first bank account. I'll leave 20% for purchases and refunds.

      Next, I'll do an online transfer from one account to another. This account paypal does not have access too. This allows me to provide a layer of isolation.

      Maybe excessive, but paypal foolishness now becomes more of an annoyance then a show stopper.

      But I am sorry to hear your horror stories - had a few with paypal of my own.

      F
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
      Originally Posted by fthomas137 View Post

      You all have to realize that paypal isn't a 'bank'. This doesn't condone their activities, but you have to remember it's like leaving money in some corporate business safe. There's no guarantees to security like a bank, no guarantees if they do funny stuff, well you get the point. My recommendation is to have a two layer isolation to paypal and your accounts. When my paypal reached a limit, I'll withdraw 80% into the first bank account. I'll leave 20% for purchases and refunds.

      Next, I'll do an online transfer from one account to another. This account paypal does not have access too. This allows me to provide a layer of isolation.

      Maybe excessive, but paypal foolishness now becomes more of an annoyance then a show stopper.

      But I am sorry to hear your horror stories - had a few with paypal of my own.

      F
      I do this too. Have an extra account with a debit card and I move some money all the time. Never much in the account attached to PayPal but I leave plenty for refunds and internet bills. A PayPal debit card helps too. Have been helping a friend try to get back a few hundred dollars. They limited her account the day after she updated from a land line to a prepaid cell phone. Makes me glad most of my money comes from Amazon
      Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
    Brenden, sorry that happened to you =/ I hope it gets resolved quickly.

    Hmmm has paypal been known to freeze accounts if you try to withdraw over X,XXX twice in a single day?
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  • I really hope it works out for you I have been hearing horror storys about paypal too. They just hold your money and there is pretty much nothing you can do, good luck!


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    • Profile picture of the author Devid Farah
      Paypal is perfect for the buyer, but if you plan to keep money in your actual account, you should beware, because in their contract they can freeze your account so that you can't do anything and hold your money for 180 even if you've done nothing wrong.

      As i said in a previous post it happened to a friend of mine in 2006 and they froze $11,000 that he NEVER got back. He was selling an ebook and he wasn't breaking any rules.

      Just type in Paypal scam or paypal account or paypal froze my money or any of these key phrases in Google. What you find will scare you! I don't mean to scare you but you need to know what could happen if you decide to sell your ebook using Paypal. I totally reccommend against it.

      You should use Clickbank.com that way you can accept credit cards, debit cards, and even paypal but it will go to your Clickbank.com account so that there is no way that Paypal can steal from you.

      All the best,
      Devid
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I hope you take them for every dime they own and that hopefully, someday,
      PayPal is put out of business.

      The more I hear these stories the more I want to...never mind...better not
      say it in a public forum.

      Just despicable.

      That's about the only word that fits.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jake Gray
    PayPal is extremely irritating at times.

    Sad thing is it's the most commonly used payment processor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    About to start making phone calls and talking with my lawyer.

    Battle starts now... good luck em.
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

      About to start making phone calls and talking with my lawyer.

      Battle starts now... good luck em.
      repeat: Instead of talking to your lawyer...how about talking to PayPal?

      I am pretty sure the issue here is the account limit which always happens once a certain amount of money starts flowing - respective when there is (unexpected) momentum in money coming in/going out etc.....and ALL this should be possible to be solved within minutes.

      Ironically, without even knowing the background of this story and what REALLY happened, many others chime in here with the chorus how "bad" paypal is and how to "take other people's money".... total nonsense IMO.
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      • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
        Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

        repeat: Instead of talking to your lawyer...how about talking to PayPal?

        I am pretty sure the issue here is the account limit which always happens once a certain amount of money starts flowing - respective when there is (unexpected) momentum in money coming in/going out etc.....and ALL this should be possible to be solved within minutes.

        Ironically, without even knowing the background of this story and what REALLY happened, many others chime in here with the chorus how "bad" paypal is and how to "take other people's money".... total nonsense IMO.
        Yeah, Brenden go call PayPal.

        Oh wait, he already called them 5 times or so, and they won't provide reasons for the block. As well they have in the past told people, to get a Subpoena for a reason why their account was blocked.

        Total nonsense of course. That also explains why they're losing money left right and center via other law suits
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  • Profile picture of the author davis cup
    I too empty my account frequently after crossing certain limits. I am still not a victim but this is a warning message for all PayPal users. You never know when you are getting axed by PayPal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    They're telling me the SOONEST I can now get my money is 60 days for SOME of it,180 days for the rest. They're telling me scripted answers, of course. Which isn't what I want to hear, but the lawyer is coming in to save the day next.

    Going to start calling the lists of numbers I see here... see what happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author LaLaLives
    Rooting for you, Brenden.

    I've never understood why some sort of class action hasn't been entered against PayPal. Freezing funds pending an investigation is one thing, never giving them back, another. Unless they've been able to prove illegal activity and criminally prosecute an account holder, I don't understand how they continue to get away with such craziness.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    So some information has come to my attention. Will write a post after lunch with it.

    Long story short: Paypal is licensed in each state as a money transmitter and is breaking the law by doing what they have done.

    I will be registering a domain and website to help others with this issue where you can sign up. I'm in the process of getting attorneys on my side to work for free until settlement is reached.

    Even after I get my money back (which i will, rest assured), this isn't over PayPal.

    You're going to get rammed so hard by me you won't see what's coming.

    Be back soon with updates.
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    • Profile picture of the author LB
      Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

      So some information has come to my attention. Will write a post after lunch with it.

      Long story short: Paypal is licensed in each state as a money transmitter and is breaking the law by doing what they have done.

      I will be registering a domain and website to help others with this issue where you can sign up. I'm in the process of getting attorneys on my side to work for free until settlement is reached.

      Even after I get my money back (which i will, rest assured), this isn't over PayPal.

      You're going to get rammed so hard by me you won't see what's coming.

      Be back soon with updates.
      You are on the right track. Money transmitter licenses require certain rules be followed in most states.

      Sadly though, I suspect that once you get your funds you will be banned from ever using Paypal again. This locks you out of many marketplaces.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
        Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

        Letters from lawyers seem to be pretty effective at getting your money very quickly.
        Agree with this. We will see what happens. He's faxing, mailing and e-mailing stuff to them.

        Originally Posted by LB View Post

        You are on the right track. Money transmitter licenses require certain rules be followed in most states.

        Sadly though, I suspect that once you get your funds you will be banned from ever using Paypal again. This locks you out of many marketplaces.
        It's okay. They can refuse service to me, but if I bring this to enough attention as far as the Washington Attorney General is concerned, then hopefully I will be able to force them to change their practices.

        Then I plan on going nationwide with this battle. Registering and setting up a domain now for other Warriors and people wronged by paypal to join the fight.

        We will see how this goes.

        Updates coming...
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      • Profile picture of the author JBroyer44
        whoa! this forum has me a little rattled! My problem is I work through my paypal account, meaning I accept payments and payout through paypal so I have to keep money in my account.

        I take money out of my profits weekly, good thing its not too much, like 5 figures or anything as I would be in trouble. At least now I know as my IM business starts to grow I need to diversify my accounts and not put any faith in one processor.
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  • Profile picture of the author daddykool
    Hey Brenden

    Sorry to here you have been "fruited" as we say in the trade

    Try this, works now and has done since PP started :rolleyes:

    1) Open another PP account while you are on hold, use a prepay CC, a throw away bank account and fresh email account.
    2) Set up bill pay / account swipe, so that IF they unhold you, your funds over $XXX (keep the balance low) are automatically transfered now and in the future, to another checking account, setup another account (deposit, not checking) and sweep the transfered $ from other account into deposit, make sure this is a DIFFERENT bank from acct1 & 2
    3) NEVER pay for ANYTHING from your new pp account, ONLY use it to accept incoming $
    4) NEVER leave more than $9,854 in ANY paypal account in the future
    5) IF they unhold the old account, just use it to PAY for stuff and use a prepay CC

    Hope that helps a little
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
    Letters from lawyers seem to be pretty effective at getting your money very quickly.
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    Haven't seen one of these threads in quite sometime. Sucks they've frozen your account. For those looking for a much faster way to empty your PayPal account simply get the PayPal debit card. I'm always using it since I'm right by an ATM. I think the most it's ever let me withdraw in a day was $400 though.

    Regardless PayPal really pisses me off literally on a daily basis (yet I'm forced to use them it would seem) so I hope you bring down the freaking hammer on them with your lawyer! Keep us updated.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    J, yeah always be weary. I knew better, but I guess I ignored it.

    Registering a domain and setting up a website now. Will be edited into the top of the main post when it's ready.

    - Brenden
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    • Profile picture of the author doorkicker13
      Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

      J, yeah always be weary. I knew better, but I guess I ignored it.

      Registering a domain and setting up a website now. Will be edited into the top of the main post when it's ready.

      - Brenden
      Awesome. Just don't make and trademark infringements... LOL.

      I hope you get all of your money back, and more.
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  • Profile picture of the author thegabrieljibril
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by thegabrieljibril View Post

      Now,this is scary,i need to find another payment processor.
      Only problem is so many ppl use paypal. So many people pay with things in their paypal account. Not everyone has a paypal debit card or wishes to get one. Paypal for the most part is just convenient. Now Paypal used to have a virtual credit card type feature you could attach to your account...think they stopped with that though.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
        Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

        Only problem is so many ppl use paypal. So many people pay with things in their paypal account. Not everyone has a paypal debit card or wishes to get one. Paypal for the most part is just convenient. Now Paypal used to have a virtual credit card type feature you could attach to your account...think they stopped with that though.
        Many people do use Paypal and for a while I changed to AlertPay and my sales dropped big time. People like to use Paypal - it is convenient.

        That's why I now use 2checkout because my customers can still pay by Paypal but it doesn't go through my own Paypal account so there is no risk of my Paypal account being closed or limited.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    Domains getting added.

    Also: Have called my local TV stations to start getting media exposure, I have a feeling they will love rattling the community about this. Going to try to get this out as much as I can and really be a pain in paypal's ass.

    I don't care if they never serve me again, someone has to do something and bitching and moaning to their support obviously will get us nowhere, so it's time to make a stand.

    - Brenden
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    • Profile picture of the author blur
      I am there now.

      Just waiting for ebay auctions to clear up and hopefully people will leave positive feedback asap.
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  • Profile picture of the author Traffic Eagle
    Has anyone ever had their paypal account frozen while running a WSO?
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    • Profile picture of the author SamuelJ
      Originally Posted by Traffic Eagle View Post

      Has anyone ever had their paypal account frozen while running a WSO?
      yes they closed my account because they said i was selling an ebook from a bad site(warriorforum) and of course they are keeping a few thousand for the fun of it.

      Paypal refund terms are 60 days and they are keeping my money for at least 180 they have told me...
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      • Profile picture of the author LB
        Originally Posted by SamuelJ View Post

        yes they closed my account because they said i was selling an ebook from a bad site(warriorforum) and of course they are keeping a few thousand for the fun of it.
        How is it they process thousands in fees for WSOs etc. but then call it a bad site? One hand does not know what the other is doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustKid
    To the guy above, Yes, situation forced me to close my WSO and actually cost me money because I had to keep my member forum and constant updates without a way to get paid. So I ended up losing in the long run.


    Same thing happened to me twice, took money from me each time, got about 500$ sitting in my account all legit. You know why they closed it? I gave 3$ to a friend over paypal and they locked it because I might be sending mass loads of small payments.

    They now keep the money because when I sent proof over they saw I was 17 and now I gotta wait 1year until I can even see my money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    Eagle, yeah, mine just got frozen while running affiliate sales and stuff. And my WSO was just getting hot.
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  • Profile picture of the author ahnalia
    After reading this thread, I feel extremely lucky. Paypal has not ever done anything like that to me before. The closest annoyance I ever had with them was when my credit card (AKA "back-up funding") expired and I did not realize it, so paypal locked my account until I got a new one issued.
    It looks like I'm in the minority when it comes to not getting ripped off... yet...
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    Domain is up, adding content to it now, about to add it to the top of the thread.

    Also: Started a Skype group for people that want to be involved in helping this all come together. Feel free to add me on Skype @ brenden.clerget, and I will add you to the group.

    Talk with you soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    I don't get it.

    Why would they *close* an account without a reason?

    I think you making an issue out of a no-issue..if you say it was FROZEN (limited!) this is normal..and to me like they simply tried to contact you for lifting the limit but you were not available.

    Are you 100% sure that whatever issue you are having cannot be solved by COMMUNICATION and simply calling them? DID you ever call them?

    Why on earth would they *close* a legit account without a significant reason behind it like alleged fraud or whatever other, alleged semi-criminal actions?

    Sorry...doesn't compute here...
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    • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I don't get it.

      Why would they *close* an account without a reason?

      I think you making an issue out of a no-issue..if you say it was FROZEN (limited!) this is normal..and to me like they simply tried to contact you for lifting the limit but you were not available.

      Are you 100% sure that whatever issue you are having cannot be solved by COMMUNICATION and simply calling them? DID you ever call them?

      Why on earth would they *close* a legit account without a significant reason behind it like alleged fraud or whatever other, alleged semi-criminal actions?

      Sorry...doesn't compute here...
      George, I know what you are thinking. I used to think this about EVERYBODY that posted something like this.

      The issue originated from them saying that my sales volume increased too much over the course of a 60 day span so they had to contact me and get more information about recent sales.

      I missed the phone call, so they limited my account. After talking with a few support people, I was notified that a senior agent would call me to get the info they need and lift the limitations.

      At 10 PM last night, I got an email saying my account was closed.

      I called them today and asked what was up, why it was closed. I got the same response over and over, which was:

      "We have deemed that the business you are involved in is too 'high risk' to us and we wish to no longer expose ourselves to that risk"

      That is all they will tell me. I sell digital products here, as well as use my PayPal for offline web design and SEO payments.

      Why would they do this? I have no clue. I know they are against the entire make money online niche and this could be me as a victim of that, but I haven't done anything wrong. I don't promote illegal activites, porn, adult sites, or ANYTHING.

      I feel the same way you do. You think if I honestly broke their rules I'd be posting all over the forum asking for support and trying to get the word out? Or hired a lawyer for that matter? Of course not.

      They do this, and I didn't believe it before it happened to me, but they WILL take your money and shut you down without warning.

      I'm living proof.

      Note: This all arose from a missed phone call, I gave them what they asked for over support, what business I am, they asked what the WarriorForum was, what WarriorPlus was, etc. I responded. Even gave them the download page to one of my products. After all this, they just shut me out, and said I can get PART of my money in 60 days and the rest in 180 days. Hardly seems right - and for you to be telling me I'm full of nonsense when I'm not and there are tons of people this happens to, I don't appreciate it.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustKid
    There already is a paypal hate forum out there. PayPal Alternative - Pay Pal Lawsuits, PayPal Complaints & Fraud you get alot more horror stories there. And with Paypal not residing within the US not much anyone can do.

    Change has to come from the inside.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by JustKid View Post

      And with Paypal not residing within the US not much anyone can do.

      Exactly where do you get this information?

      They are a U.S. based company.
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      • Profile picture of the author webpromotions
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Exactly where do you get this information?

        They are a U.S. based company.
        That depends on where the client is based.

        In Europe, PayPal is separate entity registered as a bank in Luxembourg.

        They also have specific local companies and respective restrictions in China, Japan, Taiwan, Brazil, and India, but they are currently only considered a 'bank' in Euro.
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        • Originally Posted by Doug English View Post

          That depends on where the client is based.

          In Europe, PayPal is separate entity registered as a bank in Luxembourg.

          They also have specific local companies and respective restrictions in China, Japan, Taiwan, Brazil, and India, but they are currently only considered a 'bank' in Euro.
          That is very interesting. I wonder why they have to be set up as a bank in Europe, but not in the U.S.?

          Great to hear of your victory, Brenden! A class-action lawsuit would still be the best solution to this problem, though.
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          • Profile picture of the author doorkicker13
            Originally Posted by Bradley J Anderson View Post

            That is very interesting. I wonder why they have to be set up as a bank in Europe, but not in the U.S.?

            Great to hear of your victory, Brenden! A class-action lawsuit would still be the best solution to this problem, though.
            Agreed, I'm glad Brenden won his little battle, but I would have like to see this thing go all the way. A class action lawsuit could perhaps wake them up(or a class action a**kickin ).
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  • Profile picture of the author exdmd
    I had my Paypal account limited unfairly last year, they are still holding funds I can't access for a few more months. If you use Paypal remember to transfer funds out of your account EVERY day. You never know when you will be next. I tried every trick in the book to get a new Paypal account, even to the point of starting a new corporation with a business bank account. They managed to trace it to me and limited THAT account, the vindictive pricks.

    I can not even buy products from someone using Paypal, if I try to checkout as a guest they say "this card cannot be used." Some of the members on here have lost sales from me because they only offer Paypal as a payment option.

    Please people, if you are selling a prouduct get a real merchant account or at least offer Google Checkout as an alternative to Paypal. And if you are selling a product that makes sales pages, make sure to have Google Checkout in the program as well as Paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Brenden, did you ask to get in touch with a senior agent like the one they said would call you? Perhaps that can help?
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    • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
      Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

      Brenden, did you ask to get in touch with a senior agent like the one they said would call you? Perhaps that can help?
      Of course I did. I asked to be connected, they said they can't.

      They said that they can put in a request to have that senior agent call me, but the supervisor I was speaking with said exactly:

      "I highly doubt they will contact you since a decision has been rendered but I can certainly forward the request and we can see if he will contact you"

      I asked for a direct line: Nope.
      I asked for a person higher up that I can speak with: Nope.

      They're literally just avoiding and dancing and dodging.

      I already filed a complaint with the Department of Financial Institutions in Washington, have a lawyer contacting them and more.

      This is a huge deal to me, I know what other people have gone through, so I'm going to put my IM skills and networking to good use to help others this has happened to because I now realize: You do not have to break any rules to have them take your money. They aren't a bank, they're licensed as a "money transmitter"

      They can do what they want without punishment from the FDIC.

      Even if it IS illegal, they will just get a slap on the wrist, or threatened by a lawyer until they return my money, and keep on doing it.

      I called all my local television stations as well. This is no joke to me.

      I've talked to them on the phone for over six hours today. There's nothing I can do through them.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    I didnt say you are full of nonsense, it was directed at people blindly chiming in without knowing all the details.

    I am afraid, the impression what paypal had from the WSOs etc....well its in the eye of the beholder...the same goes for Google etc. shutting down adsense/adwords accounts and stealing legitimately earned money.

    Sadly, its their right to "deem" a business high risk and since they are not obligated to offer their service if they don't *like* a business.

    As for withholding the money, they dont have a legal base to stand on and as i understand it the money is indeed released after some longer time....but hardly held *forever*.

    The whole thing is just a combo of bad circumstances, their very own impression they had by reviewing your business and the fact you were not available for contact.

    I am almost positive it would not have happened if they would have been able to reach you earlier.
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    • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I didnt say you are full of nonsense, it was directed at people blindly chiming in without knowing all the details.

      I am afraid, the impression what paypal had from the WSOs etc....well its in the eye of the beholder...the same goes for Google etc. shutting down adsense/adwords accounts and stealing legitimately earned money.

      Sadly, its their right to "deem" a business high risk and since they are not obligated to offer their service if they don't *like* a business.

      As for withholding the money, they dont have a legal base to stand on and as i understand it the money is indeed released after some longer time....but hardly held *forever*.

      The whole thing is just a combo of bad circumstances, their very own impression they had by reviewing your business and the fact you were not available for contact.

      I am almost positive it would not have happened if they would have been able to reach you earlier.
      So George,

      You believe that we should all be available 24/7 in case PayPal calls?

      Caleb
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    • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I didnt say you are full of nonsense, it was directed at people blindly chiming in without knowing all the details.

      I am afraid, the impression what paypal had from the WSOs etc....well its in the eye of the beholder...the same goes for Google etc. shutting down adsense/adwords accounts and stealing legitimately earned money.

      Sadly, its their right to "deem" a business high risk and since they are not obligated to offer their service if they don't *like* a business.

      As for withholding the money, they dont have a legal base to stand on and as i understand it the money is indeed released after some longer time....but hardly held *forever*.

      The whole thing is just a combo of bad circumstances, their very own impression they had by reviewing your business and the fact you were not available for contact.

      I am almost positive it would not have happened if they would have been able to reach you earlier.
      I'm going to disagree with this.

      Others have missed their calls and still had it handled, however, they are selling software or themes.

      As soon as the idea of info marketing came up, they got the **** end up the stick and rammed it up my you know where.

      That's fine, refuse service, refuse business. They can't however hold my money for 180 days, or any length longer than 10 days, persuant to the revised code of Washington that deals with those licensed as money transmitters.

      Trust me - they're breaking the law, and I'm not just going to lay by the wayside like some others and eat it. They're going to have the biggest pain in the ass from me they've ever had.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post


      I am almost positive it would not have happened if they would have been able to reach you earlier.
      Wait....oh this is EXACTLY what Brenden said in a previous post.

      You're a huge paypal apologist and are VERY quick to point the blame at the user, even if you do so in a not straight forward manner.

      You may not have told Brenden that he is full of BS, but you sure implied that.

      The whole business of "Why would paypal do this if they didn't have a valid reason?" is absolute BS logic and you know it. Paypal has pulled this crap on more than just people in the IM community, and there are thousands of stories regarding it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
        Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

        Wait....oh this is EXACTLY what Brenden said in a previous post.

        You're a huge paypal apologist and are VERY quick to point the blame at the user, even if you do so in a not straight forward manner.

        You may not have told Brenden that he is full of BS, but you sure implied that.

        The whole business of "Why would paypal do this if they didn't have a valid reason?" is absolute BS logic and you know it. Paypal has pulled this crap on more than just people in the IM community, and there are thousands of stories regarding it.
        Yeah someone posted a few of those websites with horror stories.

        I'm just ready to do something about it with the skills that I have.

        Let's not start this into a big argument though, the longer this thread stays alive the better... especially for those struggling so we can get the word out that I'm going to do something REAL with lawyer backing to help those that have had issues.

        - Brenden
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        • Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

          I'm going to do something REAL with lawyer backing to help those that have had issues.
          A lawyer and publicity will probably help you out, but I doubt it will help all these other people. The only way to do that would be with a class action lawsuit.
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          • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
            Originally Posted by Bradley J Anderson View Post

            A lawyer and publicity will probably help you out, but I doubt it will help all these other people. The only way to do that would be with a class action lawsuit.
            Time to start a class action lawsuit I guess...

            I'm going to inform local lawyers about this and see if I can find a firm willing to undertake such a lawsuit.
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      • Profile picture of the author paulie888
        Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

        Wait....oh this is EXACTLY what Brenden said in a previous post.

        You're a huge paypal apologist and are VERY quick to point the blame at the user, even if you do so in a not straight forward manner.

        You may not have told Brenden that he is full of BS, but you sure implied that.

        The whole business of "Why would paypal do this if they didn't have a valid reason?" is absolute BS logic and you know it. Paypal has pulled this crap on more than just people in the IM community, and there are thousands of stories regarding it.
        I agree, I have talked to countless Paypal reps in the past, and not once have they been able to give me a straight answer as to when and why accounts get limited - all they've been able to mumble and vaguely state was something to the effect that their system "monitors accounts in real-time and throws up flags when certain suspicious and/or unexpected activity occurs".
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I didnt say you are full of nonsense, it was directed at people blindly chiming in without knowing all the details.

      I am afraid, the impression what paypal had from the WSOs etc....well its in the eye of the beholder...the same goes for Google etc. shutting down adsense/adwords accounts and stealing legitimately earned money.

      Sadly, its their right to "deem" a business high risk and since they are not obligated to offer their service if they don't *like* a business.

      As for withholding the money, they dont have a legal base to stand on and as i understand it the money is indeed released after some longer time....but hardly held *forever*.

      The whole thing is just a combo of bad circumstances, their very own impression they had by reviewing your business and the fact you were not available for contact.

      I am almost positive it would not have happened if they would have been able to reach you earlier.
      Until it happens to you...You really don't know, dude.

      About a year ago, My partner and I BOTH got our accounts shut down...and guess what the reason was?

      BECAUSE WE KNEW SOMEONE THAT WAS ON A BANNED MERCHANT LIST.

      We never sent this person money, never received money from him...NOTHING. An investigation showed that my partner had a PERSONAL relationship with this person almost 10 years ago.

      Let me just break that down one more time.

      My partner didn't do anything wrong
      I didn't do anything wrong.

      My partner just KNEW someone...THAT'S IT.

      We both had our accounts closed, and had withdrawals to our personal accounts REVERSED...Then were told that our money would be safely locked away for 180 days.

      So, to try and make it sound like PP is a company that is fair or only does things for a reason, is bull****.

      Now...

      We did get the issue resolved after about 3 weeks, but it never should have happened...Plus, it took us 2 weeks, and talking to about 20 different people to even find out the REAL reason our accounts were limited.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I didnt say you are full of nonsense, it was directed at people blindly chiming in without knowing all the details.
      You mean you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
    Brenden I sure hope that this gets resolved for you quickly. I'm always fearing the "paypal lockdown"! I can't stand when businesses like Paypal (and monopolies as such) throw their weight around.

    Good luck and I plan on following your updates here,
    Karen
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  • Profile picture of the author bonk12
    That's nuts, I haven't had anything like that happen to me, but I hope for the sake of being able to run a business online they ease up a bit and stop stealing hard earned money.

    I wish the best to you, hope everything goes alright.

    Cheers,

    Steven Patterson
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    • Originally Posted by Sardent View Post

      Paypal likes to play fast and loose, act like a bank or credit card company, except without any of the rules those have to follow.
      This is the problem. If they are to going to act like a bank, they need to be regulated like a bank.

      Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

      Emptying your PayPal account every week/day won't do you any good if ever there is an issue. You have to have a bank account, plus a credit card associated with your PayPal account and they will just pull whatever they want from either of those, in the order given.
      That's why I get a good old-fashioned paper check sent each week.

      Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

      Letters from lawyers seem to be pretty effective at getting your money very quickly.
      Agreed. Lawyers and publicity are the only things that will rattle a big corporation like Paypal.

      Best of luck to you, Brenden, and to everyone else that is apparently having the same issues.
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      • Profile picture of the author Juliawriter
        Originally Posted by Bradley J Anderson View Post

        This is the problem. If they are to going to act like a bank, they need to be regulated like a bank.



        That's why I get a good old-fashioned paper check sent each week.



        Agreed. Lawyers and publicity are the only things that will rattle a big corporation like Paypal.

        Best of luck to you, Brenden, and to everyone else that is apparently having the same issues.
        What makes you think that they cannot get a refund from a Bank. In the UK there was a recent case of cheque funds being pulled from the receivers banks after 6 months as the issue of the cheques was fraudulent. So the bank got their money and the cheque receivers got stuffed. From what I have read on the Luxembourg PP rights - e-money has NO RIGHTS or laws covering it.

        "PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A is duly licensed as a Luxembourg credit institution in the sense of Article 2 of the law of 5 April 1993 on the financial sector as amended and is under the prudential supervision of the Luxembourg supervisory authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier, with registered office in L-1150 Luxembourg. Since the service is limited to E-money, which does not qualify as a deposit or an investment service in the sense of the Law, customers of PayPal are not protected by the Luxembourg deposit guarantee schemes provided by the Association pour la Garantie des Dépôts Luxembourg (AGDL).

        PayPal Inc. (which is a parent company of PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A) was acquired by eBay in October 2002, and is located in California, USA. "

        I am happy with Paydotcom so far.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    Thanks Steven, hopefully it goes as planned...
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    Yeah they are US based, and also have licenses in every state in the US. They have offices in San Jose, CA.
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    • Profile picture of the author doorkicker13
      Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

      Yeah they are US based, and also have licenses in every state in the US. They have offices in San Jose, CA.
      San Jose isn't far from me.. should get a big group of SoCal Warriors/IMers to go out there and protest. Could be fun.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
        Originally Posted by doorkicker13 View Post

        San Jose isn't far from me.. should get a big group of SoCal Warriors/IMers to go out there and protest. Could be fun.
        I will fly down. I say we set up all kinds of protests through the website I'm setting up.

        Hopefully my lawyer calls me back with some news soon.

        - Brenden
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        • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
          Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

          I will fly down. I say we set up all kinds of protests through the website I'm setting up.

          Hopefully my lawyer calls me back with some news soon.

          - Brenden
          Create an FB fan page for it too.
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    I am curious how so many warriors have been selling WSOs etc. for years without issue. I've read multiple stories now where when paypal saw someone was selling marketing info, WSOs, etc. they deemed them high risk and shut them down.

    Have any warriors been confronted by Paypal over WSOs and resolved it?
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    • Profile picture of the author aprilove
      Thanks for the great info. I will be cautious.

      Still it's another beautiful day!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike McAleer
    That is messed up.

    I hate paypal just because of transaction fees alone.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      I am curious how so many warriors have been selling WSOs etc. for years without issue. I've read multiple stories now where when paypal saw someone was selling marketing info, WSOs, etc. they deemed them high risk and shut them down.

      Have any warriors been confronted by Paypal over WSOs and resolved it?
      A couple guys in a Skype group I'm a part of have gotten away with it but they were selling software or wordpress themes.

      They just hate the info marketing market I suppose.

      Originally Posted by Mike McAleer View Post

      That is messed up.

      I hate paypal just because of transaction fees alone.
      Agree.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by Mike McAleer View Post

      That is messed up.

      I hate paypal just because of transaction fees alone.
      Their fees are particularly high when smaller transactions are involved ($5 and under). Not that I sell anything at that price point, but for anyone who does (especially in volume), a regular merchant account would save them a ton in transaction fees alone!
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  • Profile picture of the author OzMan
    had my share of Paypal nightmares... especially trying to send money while on vacation in other countries
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    Updates: Gotten direct lines to their legal department, risk operations guy and some senior agents.

    Filed complaints with Washington's FDI, as well as the BBB and FTC. I suggest others do the same. They seem to be taking me a bit more serious now that I told them I will be starting a website to share stories about this and enable others to easily make complaints about them. I also let them know my lawyer is trying to get a hold of their legal department to file a letter of representation so he can take over for me.

    Things are coming together. Regardless if they say "This decision cannot be appealed" or not, I'm going to FORCE them to pay attention to me.

    Then the website will still go up, and I will help others achieve the same goals.

    You can't get deterred with this kind of stuff, and I think I'm making a LOT of progress.

    Spoke with a risk operations manager and she said first thing in the morning she will call me and she apologizes for the inconvenience this has all caused me, only after I let her know the BBB and FDI have been complained to.

    Updates coming...
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Has anyone ever had their paypal account frozen while running a WSO?
    Yes i recall one guy saying he sold hundreds of copies of his book but as usual got a few chargebacks..paypal limite his account. think it was a 7 year old account as well.

    My account was premier 11 years old....banend one day i stil ldo not know the reaosn I called. Told they would "look into it" then told 6 months limited....

    so do think "oh i have been with them 10 years no problems..." Past year they seem to have gone 10X worse! I wonder if something is going on with them?
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    • Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

      - all they've been able to mumble and vaguely state was something to the effect that their system "monitors accounts in real-time and throws up flags when certain suspicious and/or unexpected activity occurs".
      That's what happens when you read off flip cards but really don't what you're talking about. :rolleyes:

      Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

      Time to start a class action lawsuit I guess...

      I'm going to inform local lawyers about this and see if I can find a firm willing to undertake such a lawsuit.
      Not an easy task, to be sure, and it could take years, but that's the only way anyone might see blanket changes occur. Of course, then there's problem of funding the legal fees...

      I would be willing to bet they will refund your money once a lawyer gets involved, though, especially if he threatens a class action suit. There's a lot of p*ssed off ex-Paypal users out there, and I'm sure they know that.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Which was?

    We did get the issue resolved after about 3 weeks, but it never should have happened...Plus, it took us 2 weeks, and talking to about 20 different people to even find out the REAL reason our accounts were limited.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    It's about time something happens against Paypal.

    I'm with you 100% Brenden. You let me know what I need to do. I'll blast this to my list, advertise, whatever it takes to get the word out.

    This crap has to stop - they need to operate legitimately.

    Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    BRENDEN VICTORY!

    After multiple calls to corporate numbers, emailing their vice president, media relations, corporate offices, I just received a phone call.

    It was from an Executive Escalations Agent, and he let me know he has personally reviewed my account and deemed that I am not "high risk" as they previously thought, and that all limitations have been lifted from my account and my account has been noted as not to be limited again.

    See: A little effort goes a long way.

    I will be writing a brief guide on how to get through to companies like this, what I did, what you can do if this happens, the steps I took.

    My account is unlimited, money has been returned, and permanently associated with an agent that I can personally call if anything happens in the future.

    VICTORY!
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    • Profile picture of the author David McKee
      Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

      BRENDEN VICTORY!

      ...

      See: A little effort goes a long way.

      I will be writing a brief guide on how to get through to companies like this, what I did, what you can do if this happens, the steps I took....

      Awesome! And I will happily get a copy when you do.

      Great news.
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    • Profile picture of the author askloz
      YAY!

      WTG Brenden... awesome news!

      Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

      BRENDEN VICTORY!

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

      BRENDEN VICTORY!

      After multiple calls to corporate numbers, emailing their vice president, media relations, corporate offices, I just received a phone call.

      It was from an Executive Escalations Agent, and he let me know he has personally reviewed my account and deemed that I am not "high risk" as they previously thought, and that all limitations have been lifted from my account and my account has been noted as not to be limited again.

      See: A little effort goes a long way.

      I will be writing a brief guide on how to get through to companies like this, what I did, what you can do if this happens, the steps I took.

      My account is unlimited, money has been returned, and permanently associated with an agent that I can personally call if anything happens in the future.

      VICTORY!
      Brendan, put it together and I will be the first one to purchase it and
      write a review and testimonial for it...after PayPal puts the screws to me
      one day.

      Because you know it's coming.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    Put me on a list for your article. The phone numbers you gathered up are gold all by themselves.

    Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author Traffic Eagle
    Congrats Brendon, this has been an uplifting thread, shows what you can do when determined to get a result - this incidentally is the secret of success as hidden in the book Think and Grow Rich.

    What I find despicable is that if you sign up to a payment processor, then that's what they should do - process your payments. You would think that they would employ people who would understand that if a bunch of $9.75 payments appear into your account, that it is the result of a successful campaign or a new product being popular - and not freeze accounts and want all sorts of ID papers. I mean you have to VERIFY your account when you start so what's all this nonsense?

    I think that if a payment processor shuts down your account in the middle of a campaign just because you're receiving loads of payments, then they should be sued for loss of earnings due to their incompetence. They should know that business is erratic, no-one can predict their earnings in the future.
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  • I'm a little paranoid when it comes to Paypal, so I had to create a new account to post this.

    Long time user (mainly lurker), but still...you never know.

    I've been thru the infamous Paypal ban.

    I have to say that all of these people that suggest withdrawing all of your funds immediately are completely wrong.

    I can't even recall how many people and departments I called after I got the infamous "account closed" email. 99% of them wouldn't say a word...they just say that its up to their AUP department which cannot be contacted by phone, therefore, nothing we can say, end of story, don't pass go, etc.

    After about 4 thousand phone calls, I finally got one guy on the phone who actually took 10 seconds to look at my account history, and he agreed that he couldn't understand why they closed my account. I think he felt sorry for me, so he went on to tell me a few things that trigger account closings. Most of them were pretty basic - high refund rates, chargebacks, etc. These are obvious.

    But he also said one of their BIG red flags was people who immediately withdraw their funds after receiving them. Thats a no-no. They want you to have at LEAST 30 days worth of funds left in your account to cover refunds and chargebacks.

    Sure, they CAN take the funds out of your attached bank accounts (regardless of what some previous posters said here), but that comes with a LOT of effort and 'back end' work on their behalf.

    If their QC was listening to this guy tell me this, he was probably fired, but I'd already called them at least a hundred times - this guy knew I was very upset and very desperate. He admitted he couldn't help me, but he had some ethics and decided to spill more than he should have.

    Makes sense too...leaving funds in your account is obviously beneficial to Paypal, and it also shows that maybe you aren't 'high risk'.

    I only do about 4k a month via paypal, so I make sure I always have a balance between 4-5k. If it helps me keep an account open, hey, great. Maybe its not helping...maybe this was yet another uninformed paypal rep (which is a HUGE problem), but letting them have 5k a month isn't a big deal - I'll take that chance.

    So, take that for whatever you think its worth, but thats my personal experience. I wish I could have posted this under my real name, but I WAS closed permanently, and did manage to open another high volume account. Its NOT an easy thing to do, but it is possible, but I don't want to have to try to do that a 2nd time.
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    • Profile picture of the author QuickSurf
      I've been wondering about Google Checkout, however I've heard/seen from online that if something does arise their even more of a pain in the ass to deal with vs paypal and getting ahold of someone by phone is like a needle in a haystack. At least with paypal you can speak with people and try to clear things up.

      Another thing, a good offline merchant rarely will freeze your account unless there is known fraud, however normal 3rd party merchants have higher cost/fee's than paypal.
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      • Profile picture of the author stodog77
        Originally Posted by QuickSurf View Post

        I've been wondering about Google Checkout, however I've heard/seen from online that if something does arise their even more of a pain in the ass to deal with vs paypal and getting ahold of someone by phone is like a needle in a haystack. At least with paypal you can speak with people and try to clear things up.

        Another thing, a good offline merchant rarely will freeze your account unless there is known fraud, however normal 3rd party merchants have higher cost/fee's than paypal.
        I have had my share of nightmares with Paypal, and Google Checkout since I run multiple businesses online and have multiple accounts. Just recently Paypal limited one of our accounts which had almost $25K in it. They wanted all kinds of information about our company like Corp papers, DL, first born. It took almost 3 weeks to resolve.

        My favorite story is about one of my buddie's son had a Paypal account that was $4K negative. His son had the same name as him except he is the 2nd and his son is the 3rd. Well low an behold he ended up having to pay the $4K back to Paypal or they where going to shut his account down, citing that since it was his son he was responsible. His son was 25 by the way.

        Google Checkout is just as bad as Paypal if not worse. Worst part about them is you can't get in contact with them. It is a complete nightmare. You can send them an email but it only sends you generic responses which take sometimes 48 hours to get back to you. They held $30K of our money one time for almost 6 months. They really scrutinize new accounts. After you get past the first couple months they are usually pretty good, but I have read a ton of stories of them just shutting down accounts, and refunding customers even after they received their products. Some of these accounts doing hundreds of thousands per month.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    Congrats Brenden - that's fantastic news!

    Love how they don't consider you 'high risk' anymore - of course they don't you can and will cause them trouble. Also love how they have put that note on your account not to be limited again - probably something like "this guy can and will cause us trouble so he should never be seen as high risk or limited in the future".

    The problem is that there are so many others that don't have the guts or the money or the knowledge to do what you did and although they are just as innocent their accounts will remain limited. I hope that you do write a report that can help others fight Paypal's ridiculous decisions to close innocent peoples accounts.

    Sheryl

    PS. Did they tell you why they thought you were 'high risk' to begin with?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Congrats, a merchant processor has owed me about 15k for 8 years now and Ive never seen it... Glad you stuck it to the man for us brothas!
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    Thanks a TON guys for all the kind words.

    I'm going to check with a lawyer and make sure that operating my site is still within law, and then put WHOIS guard on it as well as start building it up. It will have a lot of information in and of itself.

    I won't be able to profit off the site however, because it contains PayPals name and I think that borders on trademark infringement.

    The guide I write will be sold here - it will be pretty basic, just a case study of the steps I took. I helped another Warrior today get a phone call and fix their account as well.

    I think I'm onto something...

    Anyway - THANKS A LOT guys, I appreciate it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jake Gray
    Brenden,

    Nice...

    I'm actually... Shocked?
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    The answer is to force them to register as a bank which Ebay has ducked and dodged around since they've owned them. The only reason they are a bank in Europe is because the EU forced the issue.
    The last time I was in San Jose PayPal wasn't at the main Ebay site. They were on 1st just east of Brokow on the north side of the street. (about 100 yards past Denny's) I don't remember PayPal on the building but an Ebay sign is on the street. Don't know if they are still there or not. Be a good place to start a picket line.

    Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author lesterlim85
    Hey Brenden

    Congrats on the victory! heard so much about the "Paypal Tragic Stories" that I wondered if anyone can escape from their devil's clutches.

    You did it! Hurray x 3 for you dude!

    Cheers,
    Lester
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Great news. Very interesting to read your story.

    Glad it all worked out. I fear this same story, hope it won't happen to me but you never know. I will look forward to what you have to say about this in the future.

    Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    PayPal has consistently won in California because they have very deep pockets and extensive political connections.
    Before we totally make PP the bad guy I think they do quite a good job the majority of time. YES, their customer service could be much better but considering they have to not only deal with huge numbers of honest people and businesses, they also have to deal with every scammer, crook and Nigerian oil prince in the world trying to use them for everything but what they are designed to do. Its not an altogether bad service. Somebody there needs to get the message on customer service. Solving problems is not the same as having minimum wage people read off flip cards. Do I think anything will change. NO!!! Not as long as Ebay owns them.

    Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
    Julia,

    They can't do that to US customers because as they're licensed to operate in the US they are licensed as money transmitters.

    In the UK, it might be perfectly legal. As licensed to operate in the US they are governed by US laws and must follow those laws accordingly as a "money transmitter"

    - Brenden
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  • Profile picture of the author money bubble
    wow, this is a good heads up! Sounds kinda like craigslist & their ghosting garbage...
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    • Profile picture of the author psa777
      Thanks Brendon for bringing this to our attention.

      It seems that there is a risk with most online payment processors. Since PayPal is so entrenched in the IM community the only solution I think is:

      1. Have a relatively small credit limit on the credit card associated with PayPal.
      2. Clear your account out regularly and only leave a small amount for odd purchases
      3.Don’t keep much money in your bank account associated with PayPal
      4. Have different processors to spread the risk

      I haven’t had any problems with PayPal so far, but most people think it can’t happen to them …. and BANG – it does and it’s too late. So I will implement every one of the above steps first thing next week, because with my current setup they could do quite a bit of damage.

      Congrats on winning the battle with them – well done!

      Cheers,
      Peter
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    Congratulations on your victory, Brenden. Did you ever get around to contacting your local news channels and media about your Paypal issues? Just wondering if you had done that, and whether that played any part in their decision to un-limit your account in what is undoubtedly a triumphant reversal!

    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Brenden and everyone else - Friday I contacted Brenden asking him what I needed to do to get my cash back. I had over 2k locked in an account permanently.

    I followed it step by step and less than 24 hours later I received a very apologetic phone call and was informed that all my money was released. I have since sent that money to my bank and it will be finished depositing on Monday.

    Folks - you can fight paypal and win. It requires knowledge and willpower, and with some research you can quickly figure out what to do.

    Rob
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    • I just finished reading the whole string. First, Congratulations Benden for winning the fight. Second, I will buy a copy when you have it ready. There is nothing like having the right information to handle a situation!

      Thank you Brenden for going to bat for yourself and the rest of us.

      I haven't had this issue yet and hope I never do, but I was a Boy Scout and remember the motto---Be prepared!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        Brenden and everyone else - Friday I contacted Brenden asking him what I needed to do to get my cash back. I had over 2k locked in an account permanently.

        I followed it step by step and less than 24 hours later I received a very apologetic phone call and was informed that all my money was released. I have since sent that money to my bank and it will be finished depositing on Monday.

        Folks - you can fight paypal and win. It requires knowledge and willpower, and with some research you can quickly figure out what to do.

        Rob
        ROB! Never heard from you back about it but that's AWESOME that it worked out man!

        Seems like I'm onto something here...

        - Brenden

        Originally Posted by R. Hershel Wright View Post

        I just finished reading the whole string. First, Congratulations Benden for winning the fight. Second, I will buy a copy when you have it ready. There is nothing like having the right information to handle a situation!

        Thank you Brenden for going to bat for yourself and the rest of us.

        I haven't had this issue yet and hope I never do, but I was a Boy Scout and remember the motto---Be prepared!!
        Hershel, thank you a lot for the support, and I appreciate all the support guys!
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  • Profile picture of the author jiantastic
    interesting...
    I never had a real problem with Paypal and I have a dedicated account manager who fixes all my problems with a quick phone call, but I have seen and heard stories beyond stories.
    what I noticed is that eBay/Paypal is really putting that tight squeeze on smaller sellers which in simply wrong in most cases.
    on the other hand it also took out a lot of scammers using eBay and Paypal to rip people off which is probably a good move.
    If you show them that the money you are pulling in is legit with consistency each and every month they will pretty much leave you alone. All 3 of my accounts went through the same issues but only for the first 2-3 months and they've been problem free for quite some time now.

    P.S. Congratz on the winning fight.

    all the best,
    Jian
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by jiantastic View Post

      interesting...
      I never had a real problem with Paypal and I have a dedicated account manager who fixes all my problems with a quick phone call, but I have seen and heard stories beyond stories.
      what I noticed is that eBay/Paypal is really putting that tight squeeze on smaller sellers which in simply wrong in most cases.
      on the other hand it also took out a lot of scammers using eBay and Paypal to rip people off which is probably a good move.
      If you show them that the money you are pulling in is legit with consistency each and every month they will pretty much leave you alone. All 3 of my accounts went through the same issues but only for the first 2-3 months and they've been problem free for quite some time now.

      P.S. Congratz on the winning fight.

      all the best,
      Jian
      Jian, what are the specific steps that you took to obtain a dedicated account manager at Paypal? I've been extra cautious recently after reading about Brenden's plight on this thread, and I've been in constant communication with Paypal agents just to be on the safe side, and so far they seem to be saying that my account is in good standing - I'm not taking any chances though, and want to be sure I'm doing everything possible to keep my account in great shape.

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author RobertJ
        Congrats Brendan on your resolution. I'm in a similar situation with a new launch so would appreciate your suggestions.

        Good to know that we're a team and helping out one another. thanks.

        - Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author Keeslover
    They don't just lock the account - sometimes they have a 24-hour "payment review". This happened to me a couple of months ago. I'm paid for web copywriting twice a month and have been for about a year. I had 6 invoices paid, and one was held for review. Nothing was different EXCEPT that she had paid me late in the evening instead of during business hours. I called, and no one could tell me why it was flagged. It was one of the smaller invoices, and it cleared about 28 hours later.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Yeah Brenden, just did exactly as you laid out, filed the complaints, wrote the emails like you said, etc.

    The PR department at Paypal got to my email first and then forwarded it on to Executive Escalations department.

    Basically - become a pain in the a$$ for certain departments and they start paying attention to you.

    Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author WayneT
    Originally Posted by Brenden Clerget View Post

    BRENDEN VICTORY! Update: 4/28/2011

    After multiple calls to corporate numbers, emailing their vice president, media relations, corporate offices, I just received a phone call.

    It was from an Executive Escalations Agent, and he let me know he has personally reviewed my account and deemed that I am not "high risk" as they previously thought, and that all limitations have been lifted from my account and my account has been noted as not to be limited again.

    See: A little effort goes a long way.

    I will be writing a brief guide on how to get through to companies like this, what I did, what you can do if this happens, the steps I took.

    My account is unlimited, money has been returned, and permanently associated with an agent that I can personally call if anything happens in the future.

    VICTORY!


    -----------------------------------

    Edit: 4/27, 3:11 PST

    *** Attention Warriors ***

    I've started a website dedicated to bringing this all to light. If there are some of you that have been affected by PayPal, any lawyers in the community that would like to help other Warriors, or anybody that wants to be a part or help out, feel free to check in on the domain periodically.

    Bear with me, I'll be getting everything set up over the next 48 hours.

    Access the website here: www DOT FightPaypal DOT com
    (Do not link directly to it so board crawlers don't end up there)

    Also: I've started a Skype group. Add me at brenden.clerget and I can add you to the Skype group.

    Hopefully this turns into something that ends up bringing everything to light.

    --------------------------------------
    Original message:

    Well...

    Never thought I'd see the day. I run a legitimate offline business with paying offline clients, and sell legitimate products...

    They called me this morning and apparently I missed it because my phone was off, so they limited my account. They said they would have a senior agent contact me once I had it escalated to that status after multiple calls to their support people and not to worry, it was routine.

    Now I get an email, without a phone call, outside of normal operating hours, saying that my account has been closed and they're holding my money for 180 days.

    I'll keep everybody updated, but my lawyer has already been notified and notarized some documents to fax them in the morning.

    I smell it all hitting the fan tomorrow morning, I'm going to rain hell on them like never before. I've heard of people getting in trouble for breaking terms of service, but I haven't broken any terms of service, nor do I scam people, and my refund rates are less than 2%....

    So - anybody experienced this with positive outcomes? If not, I guess I have a precedent to set.

    Time to make some changes PayPal, or get sued... for FARRRRRR more than what you've withheld from me.

    I fought the PayPal and... ______ won....
    Well done, I had my account frozen a little over a year ago due to a transfer problem between them and the bank??, (The bank couldn't understand why as it was from Paypal's end, yes ALL the money was there). I got nowhere with paypal at all so I rang my bank. They were incensed and contacted paypal asap, short story, paypal backed off immediatley, my money was unfrozen and full status was restored with nothing recorded on my file. This took a couple of hours when the bank got involved, before that I was getting nowhere at all. The bank rang well after normal hours to keep me informed and tell me it was all ok.
    Now I only use paypal if I have to and never keep money in the paypal acct, I have a limited amount in the account they can access and transfer balances when required into that acct, it's a bit of a pain but much safer.
    Good Job

    Yours

    Wayne
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3807980].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SuspectZero
    Thanks for starting this thread, this happened to me years ago selling ebay items, nothing dodgy or in breach of terms, they froze my account which resulted in me having to refund 1,500 of sales because by the time I got it sorted out (4 weeks) all the ebay customers had started complaints via ebay, it was a nightmare trying to email each one apologizing for something that i didn't cause and had no control over, it was really frustrating and had the potential to ruin my hard earned feedback rating, and in fact did. Paypal sucks but like other warriors have said its a sort of can't live with em can't live without em sort of situation. Having said all that I have'nt had any issues for at least 5 years now but after reading this thread I will be emptying my account today!!!

    Good luck and I think the website to highlight this is a great idea
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  • Profile picture of the author focused
    Congratulations, Brenden, on stomping on PayPal's toes and catching the big lug with an uppercut when he looked down.

    At least for once the little guy wins a round against the corporate giant.

    I too once had my PayPal account frozen for a short time due to no fault of mine. Fortunately, it just caused me a minimum of inconvenience until I could get it straightened out.

    beep beep
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3809209].message }}
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