Your Clocks Will Soon Show Different Times

47 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
Looks like they are going to be playing around with the frequency of the electrical grid and that could make your plug-in clocks run at different speeds.


Power-grid experiment could confuse clocks - Technology & science - Innovation - msnbc.com


A yearlong experiment with America's electric grid could mess up traffic lights, security systems and some computers -- and make plug-in clocks and appliances like programmable coffeemakers run up to 20 minutes fast.
  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    With so many warnings about the grid shutting down due to solar power... this just seems... convenient.

    Many weird things happening last months, thats for sure.
    Signature
    People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136018].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I can handle the clocks being off. However, the last two daylight savings time changes knocked out my ISP for 2-3 days!

      Have no idea why and they couldn't explain it - but apparently didn't learn from it the first time.
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      Please do not 'release balloons' for celebrations. The balloons and trailing ribbons entangle birds and kill wildlife and livestock that think the balloons are food.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136042].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I can handle the clocks being off. However, the last two daylight savings time changes knocked out my ISP for 2-3 days!
        Kay, once your coffeemaker starts running 20 minutes fast you'll have to go back in time to add the coffee and water.

        Reminds me of that line by Steven Wright..."I put instant coffee in a microwave once. I almost went back in time."

        :p
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136089].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          Reminds me of that line by Steven Wright..."I put instant coffee in a microwave once. I almost went back in time."
          I've heard that one before and I don't get the joke. I thought about it for like 15 minutes once. What does it mean?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136150].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

            I've heard that one before and I don't get the joke. I thought about it for like 15 minutes once. What does it mean?
            Hey Sumit...

            It refers to being very fast, and speed (velocity) is the key element to going back in time. In theory, if you go fast enough you'll go back in time.
            Signature
            Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
            Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136179].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Hey Sumit...

              It refers to being very fast, and speed (velocity) is the key element to going back in time. In theory, if you go fast enough you'll go back in time.
              But why instant coffee? What's instant coffee, btw?
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136198].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

                But why instant coffee? What's instant coffee, btw?
                Instant coffee is just dehydrated powerded coffee you mix with hot water...The "instant" refers to not having to brew it, but you still have to wait to boil water.

                The joke just refers to being faster than "instant". What's faster than "instant"?

                Signature
                Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
                Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136217].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
                  Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

                  Sumit, think about it like this...a microwave cooks things in a very fast time. Almost instantly compared to convection, or radiant, or conductive heating.

                  If you mentally add 'instant coffee' to a technique of instant heating you can make the comic leap that it would happen so fast you would have to go back in time to accomplish it or to see it happen.

                  You also have to 'get' the joke for it to be funny. As you can see, a dry explaination of the humor adds nothing to the joke.
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  Instant coffee is just dehydrated powerded coffee you mix with hot water...The "instant" refers to not having to brew it, but you still have to wait to boil water.

                  The joke just refers to being faster than "instant". What's faster than "instant"?
                  Oh.. you can make coffee in two ways? Now I get it. I've never seen how you brew coffee. I thought brewing was just another word for 'making' coffee all these years. lol... Here we just add the powder in milk. And I was wondering why would anyone wanna put in the microwave.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136243].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                    Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

                    Oh.. you can make coffee in two ways? Now I get it. I've never seen how you brew coffee. I thought brewing was just another word for 'making' coffee all these years. lol... Here we just add the powder in milk. And I was wondering why would anyone wanna put in the microwave.

                    And we have "brewed" tea and "instant" tea too.... Although I think "steeped" may also be used for tea.

                    Instant tea is really bad, IMO, but we use it for making iced tea.

                    I don't drink coffee so I'm guessing instant coffee isn't very good either.
                    Signature
                    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
                    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136271].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
                      [DELETED]
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136300].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        Kay, once your coffeemaker starts running 20 minutes fast you'll have to go back in time to add the coffee and water.
                        See - I avoid technical issues like that - I don't drink coffee
                        Signature
                        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
                        ***
                        Please do not 'release balloons' for celebrations. The balloons and trailing ribbons entangle birds and kill wildlife and livestock that think the balloons are food.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136328].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author myob
                    Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

                    I've heard that one before and I don't get the joke. I thought about it for like 15 minutes once. What does it mean?
                    You need to understand Quantum Mechanics and the Theory of Relativity to get the rip-roaring humor of the joke. You see, the speed of light is 186,282 miles per second, and according to Einstein, approaching the speed of light results in the compression of space and time. Among other things, the effect of exceeding this universal speed limit (such as instant) is you go back in time. So you must be very, very careful in making instant coffee; just take it slow and easy, or you may slip into a time in the past.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136283].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  Instant coffee is just dehydrated powdered coffee you mix with hot water...The "instant" refers to not having to brew it, but you still have to wait to boil water.

                  The joke just refers to being faster than "instant". What's faster than "instant"?
                  Oh, NOW I get it! Duh! NOW it's funny.

                  Sylvia
                  Signature
                  :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
                  :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136351].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
            Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

            I've heard that one before and I don't get the joke. I thought about it for like 15 minutes once. What does it mean?
            Sumit, think about it like this...a microwave cooks things in a very fast time. Almost instantly compared to convection, or radiant, or conductive heating.

            If you mentally add 'instant coffee' to a technique of instant heating you can make the comic leap that it would happen so fast you would have to go back in time to accomplish it or to see it happen.

            You also have to 'get' the joke for it to be funny. As you can see, a dry explaination of the humor adds nothing to the joke.
            Signature
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136196].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sylviad
    Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

    Looks like they are going to be playing around with the frequency of the electrical grid and that could make your plug-in clocks run at different speeds.
    So... can I blame this on why my internet connection and my email didn't work this morning. Well, still working on the email thingy, but at least I got online.
    Signature
    :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
    :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136366].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    "Playing with the frequency"?? WTF?
    Your Clocks Will Soon Show Different Times
    That's not a problem. Mine shows a different time every minute anyhow.:rolleyes:
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136634].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      "Playing with the frequency"?? WTF?
      Sally, we use 60 Hz here as the frequency, in Europe they use 50 Hz as the frequency.

      These are the cycles per second that determine that rate at which electrons flow back and forth. If you alter the frequency the motors that drive the clocks will operate at a different speed reletive to the frequency.


      That's not a problem. Mine shows a different time every minute anyhow.:rolleyes:
      Old Chinese proverb...Man with one clock always sure what time it is. Man with two clocks never really sure what time it is.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136667].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

        Old Chinese proverb...Man with one clock always sure what time it is. Man with two clocks never really sure what time it is.
        Old Poor Chinese proverb ...Man with broken clock is right twice a day.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136913].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

        Sally, we use 60 khz here as the frequency, in Europe they use 50 khz as the frequency.

        These are the cycles per second that determine that rate at which electrons flow back and forth. If you alter the frequency the motors that drive the clocks will operate at a different speed reletive to the frequency.




        Old Chinese proverb...Man with one clock always sure what time it is. Man with two clocks never really sure what time it is.
        So Bill, what's their point in doing so? Are they converting the power plants? Fixing the wire systems? I get the basics of what they are doing - but what are they doing it for?
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137124].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          So Bill, what's their point in doing so? Are they converting the power plants? Fixing the wire systems? I get the basics of what they are doing - but what are they doing it for?
          They're trying to ease rush hour congestion.
          Signature
          Professional Googler
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137177].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          So Bill, what's their point in doing so? Are they converting the power plants? Fixing the wire systems? I get the basics of what they are doing - but what are they doing it for?
          Sally,

          My take from reading the article is it is designed as a cost saving measure.

          Assuming this is not another piece of disinformation, of course.

          Apparently the costs associated with keeping the frequenciy at a precise point is becoming too expense to maintain if they can get away from it. Remember the frequency could be arbitrary and in fact is completely different in other parts of the world, but what analog devices like clock motors require is a constant frequency to remain accurate.

          If the frquency is allowed to float, say 55 Hz to 65 Hz as an example, your clock motors wil run slow and fast reletive to the frequency change.

          A by-product of this could also mean that the cost to keep electric motors running at constant rates would be a push onto motor manufacturers to add reglators to their motors, or to have consumers use regulators at the point of use or incoming distribution (e.g. the main circuit box).
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137194].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      "Playing with the frequency"?? WTF?


      That's not a problem. Mine shows a different time every minute anyhow.:rolleyes:
      I had the same problem with mine. I simply unplugged it and now it's the most stable timepiece I've ever had.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136976].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    That's nothing. Wait until they bring in Metric Time.

    100 seconds in every minute, 100 minutes in every hour, 10 hours a day, 1000 days a year. The world will be divided up int o two time zones Greenwich Metric Time (GMT), and Pacific Metric Time (PMT).

    The only way you can avoid this is by adopting my very own (patent pending) method of measuring time, the Binary Universal Latitudinal Longtitudinal Solar Heliocentric Intercontinental Time (B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.). Clocks and watches will be available soon at all good tinfioil retailers.

    Of course the introduction of Metric Time is an Illuminati conspiracy designed to distract us "sheeple" from the fact that aliens built the Pyramids.

    You heard it here first folks, and remember, if it's on the internet, it must be true.
    Signature
    Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?
    So that blind people can hate them as well.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4136989].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    I would be fine with skewed time - in fact it might even be fun.

    What constantly gets me since working from home glued to my computer, is I frequently don't know what day it is. Really makes me mad when I find myself working on my day off.

    I don't know how I know this but don't things have different type of plugs US vs Euro - (because of the different Hz) -- now this may be really old info but I heard if you take a US TV or any electical appliance to Europe you need an adapter even to plug it in there?

    Anyway, Wahoo the speed of light! Wahoo the TIME WARP!
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137029].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      I would be fine with skewed time - in fact it might even be fun.

      What constantly gets me since working from home glued to my computer, is I frequently don't know what day it is. Really makes me mad when I find myself working on my day off.

      I don't know how I know this but don't things have different type of plugs US vs Euro - (because of the different Hz) -- now this may be really old info but I heard if you take a US TV or any electical appliance to Europe you need an adapter even to plug it in there?

      Anyway, Wahoo the speed of light! Wahoo the TIME WARP!
      Patrician, (et al.) just a very few from the States, there are many different outlets, many used in commercial applications.

      Besides just 120 and 240..



      A few from around the world...

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137233].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
        Have I got this right.

        If I have an electric clock plugged in in the US the time can change because the electrical frequency changes?

        So if I buy a clock in the US and bring it home to England and plug it in using an adapter then what happens?

        Would it be getting progressively worse in it's time keeping until it had gone 'round the clock' so to speak as we have different frequency?

        And if not then why would it change in the US because of this?

        Dan
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137352].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Jeesh, all ya gotta do is just keep your mobile phone with you. Time's always right no matter where you at. :rolleyes:
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137409].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            Jeesh, all ya gotta do is just keep your mobile phone with you. Time's always right no matter where you at. :rolleyes:
            What happens if THAT network goes down, as it has before!?!?!?

            Steve
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137586].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author myob
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              What happens if THAT network goes down, as it has before!?!?!?

              Steve
              Do I have to do ALL the thinking around here? Everyone should also have a Timex wrist watch for backup. It can take a lickin' and keep on tickin' no matter what happens.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137764].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                Do I have to do ALL the thinking around here? Everyone should also have a Timex wrist watch for backup. It can take a lickin' and keep on tickin' no matter what happens.

                Timex Quartz commercial
                Do YOU know what happened to the last timex watch I had?

                DO YOU!?!?!?!?

                You are NOT going to believe this, but it uis 100% TRUE! A young kid, maybe 6-7 yo, threw a LITTLE rock! It hit my watch, and the crystal just FLEW OFF!

                NO JOKE!

                Steve
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4138755].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author myob
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  ..A young kid, maybe 6-7 yo, threw a LITTLE rock! It hit my watch, and the crystal just FLEW OFF!
                  That could not have been a real Timex; just a cheap knock-off.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4138853].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by myob View Post

                    That could not have been a real Timex; just a cheap knock-off.
                    That WAS like 35+ years ago, but it was NOT a cheap knock off! HECK, it cost what MOST watches in that area sold for. BTW, I bought it at a department store. GEE, knock off eh? Why not knock off a ROLEX, etc? You know, I forget if it had date or not. To get a rolex Gold presidente wth a movement with similar features, would cost over $9000 in the 1980s!

                    Steve
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4138925].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  Do YOU know what happened to the last timex watch I had?

                  DO YOU!?!?!?!?

                  You are NOT going to believe this, but it uis 100% TRUE! A young kid, maybe 6-7 yo, threw a LITTLE rock! It hit my watch, and the crystal just FLEW OFF!

                  NO JOKE!

                  Steve

                  Hey Steve,

                  A million years ago when they were running those ads, there was one were they had an elephant stand on one.

                  When (name escapes me) asked what time it is , they said "time for a new Timex"

                  It ran just a very few times, but even as a kid I remember thinking, hey at least they were honest.



                  Only one ever like that.

                  What the hell was that guy's name? Tip of the tongue.


                  Screw Google...gotta start using memory..lol
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4139052].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

          Have I got this right.

          If I have an electric clock plugged in in the US the time can change because the electrical frequency changes?

          So if I buy a clock in the US and bring it home to England and plug it in using an adapter then what happens?

          Would it be getting progressively worse in it's time keeping until it had gone 'round the clock' so to speak as we have different frequency?

          And if not then why would it change in the US because of this?

          Dan
          Dan,

          A clock with a motor designed to run on the American standard of 60 Hz will run slow if run on 50 Hz assuming you've also corrected the voltage to match the clocks requirements (115 volts +/-).
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137477].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
            Okay thanks Bill.

            Physics wasn't exactly my strong point.

            Dan
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137521].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    MAN, SOMEONE SHOULD SUE!!!!!!!!

    They have known for DECADES that this was a concern! I mean I heard about this potential problem over FORTY YEARS ago! One difference ALWAYS given between the US and europe is that the us is 60hz, and europe is 50hz.

    HECK, on computer backup powersupplies, they try to EMULATE sinewave 60hz, in the US!!!!!! And it used to be that they cost MUCH more if they were closer! Some paid THOUSANDS for conditioners that tried to rectify such conditions. GEE, I wonder WHY!!!!!

    On the bright side, digital clocks SHOULDN'T be affected, and CERTAINLY not if they have battery backup IN the device. THEY would have to regulate from DC. With computers, the problem is switching power supplies. I never really quite understood that, but supposedly frequencies affect them. It should NOT affect laptops. And HOPEFULLY what ever problem existed in switching power supplies has been fixed.

    But the FACT is that some older technology DOES use the line frequency. And I said older TECHNOLOGY! Some very NEW things use older technology. So businesses and hospitals are probably among those most likely to be affected.

    And they say it has nothing to do with the internet... *****BULL*****! If some device breaks, or runs at the wrong frequency because of this, a whole subnet could go down! When I was a kid, clocks and computers were the two examples mentioned!

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137549].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      MAN, SOMEONE SHOULD SUE!!!!!!!!
      Steve,

      If you smoke enough corporate dope it's easy to see that:

      A) It will save the electric companies a fortune if the frequency is allowed to float.

      B) It will create new opportunities for profitable businesses to sell the 'correcting devices'.

      C) The burden of cost will be pushed to the demand side from the supply side.

      D) You can show you're taking a proactive approach to cost savings that should show up in the quarterly reports.

      What's not to love about this?
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4137606].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

        Steve,

        If you smoke enough corporate dope it's easy to see that:

        A) It will save the electric companies a fortune if the frequency is allowed to float.

        B) It will create new opportunities for profitable businesses to sell the 'correcting devices'.

        C) The burden of cost will be pushed to the demand side from the supply side.

        D) You can show you're taking a proactive approach to cost savings that should show up in the quarterly reports.

        What's not to love about this?
        What makes ME upset is that people have been relying on that for DECADES! STUPID, YEAH, but STILL... And MEDICAL equipment may DEPEND on frequencies, and the FDA makes changes DIFFICULT and LENGTHY! Oh well, most of my computers are LAPTOPS. My main desktop runs off of conditioned power. My one medical device runs off of batteries. So I only have TWO cllocks out of maybe 6 that might be affected.

        Anyway, peoploe have been changing frequencies for a year without telling anyone? I wonder what was affected.

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4138794].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    So it only affrect usa.

    The free world have one less thing to worry about
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4138578].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    I am just a little worried by how different, don't want to wake up in the morning and find its 12 midnight
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4139683].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by dagaul101 View Post

      I am just a little worried by how different, don't want to wake up in the morning and find its 12 midnight
      It PROBABLY won't affect you. When I heard about the tie to frequency around the 60s, I found it hard t fathom even THEN! Even THEN, MOST devices lowered the power, and changed it to DC. Computers were odd, since they used a switching power supply Switched-mode power supply - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Well, that article DOES say the frequency is important, it says that most consumer ones, like WE would use, "can handle the range". I put that LAST part in quotes, because they then INVALIDATE their statement in THIS case by saying "although a manual voltage range switch may be required". They don't make that clear if it is only for the input voltage. It USED to be that the US used 120 at 60, and almost everyone else used 240 at 50. SOME power supplies have a switch to select one of the two variants!

      I never looked at the schematic for a switching power supply, so I don't know that much about this, but they make it sound like the frequency can affect the voltage. The frequency looks like only 20% difference. If it affected the output power that much, you would have 4-6 volts, on the 5 volt line, assuming it was supposed to put out exactly 5v and was NOT regulated.

      TYPICALLY, in most circuits anyway, the input voltage is rated at least a volt or two higher so a device called a regulator can reduce it to precisely what is needed. Regulators are expected to generate some heat, can burn out, and should be before any device that needs stable power, so I imagine they are in the power supply.
      I will say one thing though. The higher the input voltage in a regulator is, in comparison to what it is to put out, the hotter it will get and the more likely it is that it will burn out.

      As for the current fluctuations, computers are SO susceptible to them that they typically put capacitors ALL OVER the motherboard. Hopefully they can ride it out. The clock, to the best of my knowledge doesn't require any special input frequency. In fact the power supply is supposed to only provide DC!

      Still, I heard that power supply is a problem. If they say they will put out a stable frequency, they should tell people that they will change it in 20 years or so, and change it THEN.

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4140407].message }}

Trending Topics