Bernie Madoff: Worst Part Of Prison Is Knowing My Family 'Hates Me'

12 years ago

Today I saw TWO stories in the news TODAY on google! ONE said he couldn't sleep after doing what he did. *********BULL*********! The SECOND said he is now happy because he doesn't have to fear being caugt, and knows he will die in jail.

UNREAL!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4947424].message }}

thunderbird

12 years ago

What this shows is how cut off (or plain indifferent) Bernie Madoff was from the harm he did to so many families, not just his own. Apparently, he was beaten up in prison:
Bernard Madoff beaten up in prison - Telegraph

Thanks

Signature

Project HERE.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4947429].message }}

HeySal

12 years ago

Awww poor Bernie -- NOT. He's got to be delirious to expect anyone to have any sympathy on him. China has executed fraudsters for much lower sums of fraud than this.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4947470].message }}

Kay King 12 years ago

He destroyed his own family and so many others - I don't care what is worst for him as it can't be as bad as he deserves.
- Thanks
Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
what it is instead of what you think it should be.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4948251].message }}

lcombs

12 years ago

My heart bleeds...

Thanks

Signature

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fresh...55326481208883

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4948286].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Bernie is actually getting some HELP from the feeling that he merely bilked the rich. The FACT is that a lot of the "rich" he bilked were playing with pension fund and investor money, or life savings from people just trying to have a decent retirement.

He is among the worst of the worst. At least a robber,even one that holds a gun to your head, lets you know where you stand, and gives you a chance to improve things. AND, if they kill you, you are DEAD! Bernie has given his family a posh lifestyle, and posh gifts, DOOMED people to a worse retirement, damaged corporations, cost people jobs, and served as another exemplar of the class problems. In a very real way, bernie is as low class as any come. Even many poor uneducated kids in the deepest and dirtiest ghettos have more class than bernie.

Frankly his ENTIRE FAMILY should be THROWN IN JAIL if they ever received such a gift, and that includes his wife that now feigns ignorance. YEAH RIGHT!

I really hope that bernie somehow ends up like the bernie in weekend at bernies where the protagonist's plan backfires in his face and he ends up helping his victims to have a nice a life.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4948321].message }}

The 13th Warrior

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

He is among the worst of the worst.

I can guarantee you he is pretty bad, but not the worse of the worse.

He is small fries in reality to the real crooks and a pacifier, a token offering to the masses that believe that there is still justice and that is works for everybody.

He might be a junior middleweight or welterweight in crooks, but not in the weight class of the worst of the worst, not close.

The 13th Warrior

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4962260].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior

I can guarantee you he is pretty bad, but not the worse of the worse.

He is small fries in reality to the real crooks and a pacifier, a token offering to the masses that believe that there is still justice and that is works for everybody.

He might be a junior middleweight or welterweight in crooks, but not in the weight class of the worst of the worst, not close.

The 13th Warrior

I said AMONG the worst of the worst. I wanted to make it clear that money is SUPPOSED to represent work and the idea of theft is akin to something closer to slavery.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4962431].message }}

Thomas Wilkinson

12 years ago

Personally, I like to be able to out for a pizza. That would be the worst part of prison for me.

Thomas

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4948688].message }}

thunderbird 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Wilkinson

Personally, I like to able to out for a pizza. That would be the worst part of prison for me.

Thomas

I've known people who were criminal personality types. They're like nitroglycerin, as touchy as the most dainty of ladies, as dangerous and violent as rabid warthogs.
- Thanks
Signature

Project HERE.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4948819].message }}

sloanjim

12 years ago

Look what he did was wrong but how he wasn't detected much earlier is baffling...but to get what 90 years for that.....is it just me that tyhinks it was excessive? I hear they expected about 15 years and al lthe legal gurua were shocked/amazed he got so long.

I mean what he promsied investors and what he told "supposedly" inspectors foe years wa sa complete joke. 12% a year or 1% month no variations was just not possible..and how long did he get away with it for? How many billions?

Thanks

Signature

15 Minute Forex Bar Trading System Free at
http://www.fxscalpingmethod.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4960631].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

HEY SLOANJIM! You know how long the average punishment is to his VICTIMS? About 81 YEARS! You spend time growing up, giving up part of your time to learn to be a good decent member of society. You spend more maybe goimg to college and/or in demeaning circumstances. You then spend more time working, and possibly getting hurt BAD! And you scrimp and save to have a retirement. And for WHAT? So THAT MORON can live high on the hog, etc!?!!?!?!?!?!? You're RIGHT! 90 years is NOT fair! He should live 300 years, but subject to lifes ill, have to do HARD LABOR, and NEVER be allowed to so much as TALK to anyone else there, FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

As for why he wasn't detected earlier, that is EASY to explain! ALL TOO EASY! READY for the simple explanation?

A LOT of people were convinced he was a GREAT investor. They put their LIFE SAVINGS in with him! Institutions had some IDIOTS that put core funds with him. As long as the numbers looked good, they didn't touch it! If any DID, he pulled money from ELSEWHERE!

That's the way PONZI schemes work. The longer the term, and the larger the average amount invested, and the more big investors you have investing, the longer you can hide it.

As for his claims? That is one reason I called those institutional investors idiots. Some places CAN keep up 12% for a long time, but even THEY will falter when the market turns. And the higher the interest rate goes up the less likely it is to be consistent. 1% a year is CHILDSPLAY. 20% a year is near impossible. Still, 12% is unlikely. But if he CAPPED it at that, was a GOOD investor, and had income opportunities that had 20%+, it is still possible. EVEN THEN though, the 2008 market, or something similar, probably would have hurt it.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4960689].message }}

Alexa Smith

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

As for why he wasn't detected earlier, that is EASY to explain! ALL TOO EASY! READY for the simple explanation?

A LOT of people were convinced he was a GREAT investor. They put their LIFE SAVINGS in with him! Institutions had some IDIOTS that put core funds with him. As long as the numbers looked good, they didn't touch it! If any DID, he pulled money from ELSEWHERE!

That's the way PONZI schemes work. The longer the term, and the larger the average amount invested, and the more big investors you have investing, the longer you can hide it.

Yes, indeed. Exactly so.

Given the scale of the operation, and its longevity, and his "plausibility" (yes, I know it's easy to question that now, with hindsight, when "we know what we know", but at the time - and that means "for decades" - he obviously had great plausibility?), it actually surprises me more that he was caught when he was caught than that he wasn't caught earlier ...

... which makes you wonder whether there are any others, like him, or nearly like him, or half like him, not yet "caught"?!

:confused:

Thanks
3 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4962799].message }}

Jonathan 2.0

Banned 12 years ago

There are certainly much worse people out there. (Yet many of them get lighter sentences?)

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4962916].message }}

Alexa Smith

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0

There are certainly much worse people out there. (Yet many of them get lighter sentences?)

Undoubtedly: clearly nobody can seriously question this.

But - to "keep it real" - it actually made no difference to him/his family whether he was given 150 years or 15 years: the rest was "publicity" and trying to "send a message" (an extremely ill-advised aspect of sentencing policy, and in some countries not considered a legitimate part of a court's job at all), and trying to show his victims the court was on their side (also arguably unwise, as well as perhaps unnecessary because everyone knows it anyway, but still perhaps understandable, in the circumstances?). The bottom line here, however unpalatable it is for many people to accept it, is that punishing Madoff probably helps nobody. I hope I need hardly mention that I don't suggest for a moment that that makes it the wrong thing to do, of course.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4963299].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Undoubtedly: clearly nobody can seriously question this.

But - to "keep it real" - it actually made no difference to him/his family whether he was given 150 years or 15 years: the rest was "publicity" and trying to "send a message" (an extremely ill-advised aspect of sentencing policy, and in some countries not considered a legitimate part of a court's job at all), and trying to show his victims the court was on their side (also arguably unwise, as well as perhaps unnecessary because everyone knows it anyway, but still perhaps understandable, in the circumstances?). The bottom line here, however unpalatable it is for many people to accept it, is that punishing Madoff probably helps nobody. I hope I need hardly mention that I don't suggest for a moment that that makes it the wrong thing to do, of course.

Let's say that NOBODY was punished for this..... EVERY criminal, etc... would be doing it! So YES, it DOES help! 15 years is ****NOT**** enough! As I said, I wish it were 300 and he had the means to survive a REAL prison and "enjoy" it for the FULL 300 years and not ONE minute more!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4963728].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Yes, indeed. Exactly so.

Given the scale of the operation, and its longevity, and his "plausibility" (yes, I know it's easy to question that now, with hindsight, when "we know what we know", but at the time - and that means "for decades" - he obviously had great plausibility?), it actually surprises me more that he was caught when he was caught than that he wasn't caught earlier ...

... which makes you wonder whether there are any others, like him, or nearly like him, or half like him, not yet "caught"?!

:confused:

There HAVE been! History is LITTERED with them! And there WILL BE!

QUICK! Name a ponzi scheme that DEMANDS that:

1. You DON'T get paid until a period of time elapses.
2. You MUST pay at least a set fee periodically until some period in the future, or you can lose it ALL!
3. You MUST follow all requirements, and have the event happen, or you can lose it ALL!
4. They promise you like 14%, but you are lucky if they will EVER pay even 4%
5. They may pass it off as a secure investment though, LEGALLY, they aren't required to pay you a PENNY over what they say you put in.
6. After the period, you could have invested $4000 and make a million, or invested a million and not have one penny!
7. It's LEGAL! They EVEN sanction the sellers to LIE!

Give up? LIFE INSURANCE!

Sorry, I couldn't resist! Think about it! You can make out like a BANDIT! You KNOW they have to be using surrendered funds to do it.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4963715].message }}

Chris Worner

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Yes, indeed. Exactly so.

Given the scale of the operation, and its longevity, and his "plausibility" (yes, I know it's easy to question that now, with hindsight, when "we know what we know", but at the time - and that means "for decades" - he obviously had great plausibility?), it actually surprises me more that he was caught when he was caught than that he wasn't caught earlier ...

... which makes you wonder whether there are any others, like him, or nearly like him, or half like him, not yet "caught"?!

:confused:

The fed had been warned about Madoff numerous times but refused to look into his companies financials.

60 Minutes: The Man Who Knew...About Bernard...

-Chris

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4969628].message }}

TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

The fed had been warned about Madoff numerous times but refused to look into his companies financials.

60 Minutes: The Man Who Knew...About Bernard Madoff 1/2 - YouTube

-Chris

The national agency you speak of is more likely to be the S.E.C. instead of the FED.

You could have also said the feds had been warned about Madoff.

All The Best!!

TL

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4971683].message }}

SamLaken

12 years ago

I remember reading that his son killed himself a few years ago.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4963343].message }}

derekwong28

12 years ago

I still strongly suspect that his family knew what he was doing and were involved. He is saying this to protect them. A life sentence would probably not have occurred in any other developed country.

Thanks

Signature

Do not get between a wombat and a chocolate biscuit; you will regret it dearly!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4963430].message }}

TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

I don't see why the wife had to know what was going on.

It's not like she was involved in the business - like the sons.

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4963612].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I don't see why the wife had to know what was going on.

It's not like she was involved in the business - like the sons.

TL

I heard of a plea he made that included that they NOT touch his wife! He gave his wife a number of EXPENSIVE things! Her actions NOW make it seem like she knew.

Where is all that suspicion you always seem to have?

Steve

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4963742].message }}

Alexa Smith Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Her actions NOW make it seem like she knew.

This is easy to assert, Steve ... difficult to prove. Like anyone else in America, however suspicious you and I may be about her, she actually has the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty.

If the prosecuting authorities could easily have proven her guilty, they would have done so. Therefore there's doubt. This is all I'm saying.

And by the way I don't significantly disagree with what you've said above, either: I was simply implying that he's not going to last 15 years anyway, so in practice that "would have done", this time, and the rest is bluster. Understandable bluster, of course, but bluster nevertheless.

PS ...
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4965110].message }}

TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I heard of a plea he made that included that they NOT touch his wife! He gave his wife a number of EXPENSIVE things! Her actions NOW make it seem like she knew.

Where is all that suspicion you always seem to have?

Steve

All I'm saying is that the wife did not have to know.

That plea you heard of could be nothing suspicious, since he was at least trying to protect her and the feds may have threatened to destroy her also.

Sure he gave her expensive things.

That would not be out of the ordinary as they were perceived as wealthy etc.

She had a general idea that the hubby was in investments and had done well - very well, so the expensive gifts went with the territory.

She did not have to know that something was out of the ordinary.

Has she slipped up and revealed that she knew before she claims he confessed??

If anyone of the family wouldn't have known about the theft, then I would be her.

TL

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4965244].message }}

sloanjim

12 years ago

right so a guy can kill a child and get about 12 years but financial means more..?

HEY SLOANJIM! You know how long the average punishment is to his VICTIMS? About 81 YEARS! You spend time growing up, giving up part of your time to learn to be a good decent member of society. You spend more maybe goimg to college and/or in demeaning circumstances. You then spend more time working, and possibly getting hurt BAD! And you scrimp and save to have a retirement. And for WHAT? So THAT MORON can live high on the hog, etc!?!!?!?!?!?!? You're RIGHT! 90 years is NOT fair! He should live 300 years, but subject to lifes ill, have to do HARD LABOR, and NEVER be allowed to so much as TALK to anyone else there, FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

15 Minute Forex Bar Trading System Free at
http://www.fxscalpingmethod.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4965554].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

right so a guy can kill a child and get about 12 years but financial means more..?

I certainly didn't say that. I have said several times here that REAL prisons don't exist. HECK, if you are a great respected, by thieves, criminal, and go to prison, you could be almost like a KING. GRANTED, you have less freedom, and have to deal with guards and politics, but there are PERKS too.

A REAL prison IS supposed to punish! NO PERKS!

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4971649].message }}

Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I certainly didn't say that. I have said several times here that REAL prisons don't exist. HECK, if you are a great respected, by thieves, criminal, and go to prison, you could be almost like a KING. GRANTED, you have less freedom, and have to deal with guards and politics, but there are PERKS too.

A REAL prison IS supposed to punish! NO PERKS!

Steve

Wrong! A REAL prison is supposed to protect society.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4971699].message }}

TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Wrong! A REAL prison is supposed to protect society.

Kurt, I have the feeling that you and Steve have a very different vision of a decent society.

LOL!

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4971867].message }}

Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Kurt, I have the feeling that you and Steve have a very different vision of a decent society.

LOL!

TL

Hey TL...

I think Steve and I see practically everything differently. For example, I look at a pine tree and see green. I have a feeling Steve looks at the same pine tree and sees a combo of orange and purple, AKA "orple".

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4971901].message }}

TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Hey TL...

I think Steve and I see practically everything differently. For example, I look at a pine tree and see green. I have a feeling Steve looks at the same pine tree and sees a combo of orange and purple, AKA "orple".

I wonder what Steve's vision of a decent American society is?

Anyone care to elaborate?

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4971984].message }}

Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I wonder what Steve's vision of a decent American society is?

Anyone care to elaborate?

TL

Like Ali use to tell Cosell..."You're instigatin' " LOL

I'm guessing in Steve's World, there would be no tipping, only tax people making less than $30,000 a year, and a lot of goose stepping.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4972696].message }}

TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Like Ali use to tell Cosell..."You're instigatin' " LOL

I'm guessing in Steve's World, there would be no tipping, only tax people making less than $30,000 a year, and a lot of goose stepping.

LOL!

- Only millionaires we be allowed to vote and 30 Rock's Jack Donahee is president and a lot of this...

Spanish Inquisition the musical - YouTube

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4973170].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Like Ali use to tell Cosell..."You're instigatin' " LOL

I'm guessing in Steve's World, there would be no tipping, only tax people making less than $30,000 a year, and a lot of goose stepping.

WRONG! In my world it would be SCARIER! There WOULD be tipping. REAL tipping! That means NO commissions for various employees that now get commissions added on after the fact and merely CALLED gratuities or tips. A TIP is also known as a GRATUITY AND, as the name implies, it is given FREELY as a way of saying thanks for the service. It is NOT a commission!

BTW, if it were a "progressive" tax, like we have now, I WOULDN'T tax ANYONE really earning like $40K or below. Frankly, I like idea of a flat national tax as a REPLACEMENT for ALL sales taxes and "income" taxes. And that WOULD automatically mean that the richer people would pay MORE! HECK, I make over $40K a year, so I would pay more. Buffet does ALSO! And I would THEN probably treat capital gains like 401Ks are treated TODAY! You can take the money out TAX FREE ****UNLESS**** it is over a month in which case you must pay REGULAR TAX! That would probably mean buffet would pay MORE than his secretary! MEANWHILE, the poor could protect their money while having a chance to get rich!

Frankly, a LOT of POOR people would LOVE my idea of a progressive tax! The rich would probably mostly be OK with it. Class envy would be OVER, except for the government and those on the public dole that would HATE it.

Then again, I have known people that thought people earning $20K were rich and selfish! Figuring that the BASICS would probably have cost over $6000 at the BEST time, that leaves $14K to pay taxes, buy cleaners, get the car cleaned, etc... HECK, you may have less than $400 left per month, and I forgot about haircuts, gas, renters insurance, etc... Of course, that was LONG ago. Even HERE, rent is over 30% higher, at its lowest! Renter's insurance ALONE could be like $300/year!

But THAT is why I wouldn't tax people making so little. AND, I would then have to tax in TIERS! So maybe $40K+1->80K would be 10%, and 80K+1->120K would be 15% and 120K+1->160K at 20%. 160K+1->200K at 25%. 200K+1->240K at 30%. 240K+1->280K at 35%. 280K+1 on up at 40%. Hiring people as employees, or building a business would be considered investments, so a lot of business income would be TAX FREE!!!!! Interest on debts would deduct from current income. That wouldn't help buffett though, because buying a car, or a home to live, etc... would cost money that is taxed.

Of course, there IS the problem of a person going bankrupt or defaulting on debt. Maybe they should be forced to pay tax on some portion of that until paid.

With my deductions and all, I would probably pay $4000. That famous guy a lot talk about(that makes $400K as I recall) would pay about $102K in taxes, to START. GRANTED, he would have deductions, but I have heard he has lots of other income, so his taxes would probably be higher. But the average person would pay NOTHING! Most RICH people would see their taxes go up. But building a business would be cheaper than buying a rollsroyce, from a tax standpoint, and they may just do it.

BTW Buffett would HATE this plan! He would maybe use a lot of excuses, but a person inheriting a company wouldn't have to pay ANYTHING until they pulled money out!

One of my pet peeves with the current system is that you can be shoved into a new tax bracket and make LESS than you used to because you got a raise!

If you're going to insult me, you could at least use the TRUTH!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4974490].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Hey TL...

I think Steve and I see practically everything differently. For example, I look at a pine tree and see green. I have a feeling Steve looks at the same pine tree and sees a combo of orange and purple, AKA "orple".

WOW, you see orange and purple? You should get your eyes checked or something.

NOPE, I just see green and brown, etc... I guess there could be sap, but PURPLE?

HECK, they are EVER GREENS, so we can't even blame it on the season!

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4973917].message }}

Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

WOW, you see orange and purple? You should get your eyes checked or something.

NOPE, I just see green and brown, etc... I guess there could be sap, but PURPLE?

HECK, they are EVER GREENS, so we can't even blame it on the season!

Steve

Read much Steve? I clearly wrote "i have a feeling YOU see orple trees" in your World.

Have you tried:
www.HOP.com ?

(Hooked on phonics)

I really expected a better come-back from you other than changing reality...But changing reality in your world does bring us back to ever-orple trees.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4973948].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Read much Steve? I clearly wrote "i have a feeling YOU see orple trees" in your World.

Have you tried:
www.HOP.com ?

(Hooked on phonics)

I really expected a better come-back from you other than changing reality...But changing reality in your world does bring us back to ever-orple trees.

I figured you were simply trying to insult me by giving me a problem YOU actually have! Orange is a stretch, but WHERE did you get purple?

And HEY, look at my last post.

steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4974502].message }}

The 13th Warrior

12 years ago

Since only working Joes get any real punishment, it really doesn't matter what the law is.

The super rich are exempt from past, present and future laws because they write the laws, own the lawmakers and own the so-called law enforcers.

Every new law or regulation will have a bevy of loopholes the super rich will enjoy and the working slobs will still bear the burden.

The super rich own the Supreme Court Justices, bought and paid for.

The super rich = Trillion Dollar Families, The Emperors ,in case you did not know.

Billionaires are the Barons, Dukes, Lords, Counts and Earls, just like England of Old, so much for the Revolution.

A slave under wages is better and more manageable than a slave under the lash. One knows he is a slave and the other thinks he is free, though most of his wages pays for his freedom, like a sharecropper, got to love the company owned stores, now, the number 1 company OWNED store, the Government.

"We ( the ultra-rich and land barrons ) The People".

Each new laws and regulations simply create a factor of 30+ new loopholes and technicalities that the ultra-rich can drive their private islands through, this musical chairs is simply a law of diminishing returns to the masses.

Once the last drop of blood is out the rock, and they continue squeezing until there is nothing but vapor and powder, then the masses will clearly understand , without fault, that they were never dealing with human beings in the first place.

This 3 card monte world system of commerce and power cannot continue to go into perpetuity.

If a farmer waters his crop less and less until it is only on a holiday that his acres get water, does not maintain the soil and its health and mineral contents, prunes less and less, lets more and more vermin do their thing; so if the farmer is only there to pick and pluck , the yield will simply not produce anymore, simple.

The farmer simply states that he is there to only take, not to maintain or improve, such farmers are in stewardship of financial systems and governments.

All officials fat pensions are safe and useable years after public office, until their death.

They will not and cannot suffer under the current laws or future laws whether found negligent or criminally negligent.

The biggest problem of all is most of us are just like them; once we get money, power and assured exception and insulation from criminal law and punishment, cycle repeats itself.

Most of these arguments are not impressive because they deal with symptoms of symptoms, not the root cause and definitive prosecution of corruption with absolute clarity and equality.

Rules, Laws and Prosecution are for the masses.

Madoff is a token to the masses, like Martha Stewart was, you really should be intensely insulted.

But they continue to do it cause it continues to work, look at all the comments of satisfaction from purportedly educated and intelligent individuals, like sticking a plastic , lifeless pacifier into a babies mouth that has not eaten in days.

Financial Dictators, Oligarchs, Despots, Totalitarians and Tyrants does not = people ruled government.

The Financial Dictators, Oligarchs, Despots, Totalitarians and Tyrants will answer to a higher law that cannot be bought or defended against.

The 13th Warrior

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4981134].message }}

TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior

Since only working Joes get any real punishment, it really doesn't matter what the law is.

The super rich are exempt from past, present and future laws because they write the laws, own the lawmakers and own the so-called law enforcers.

Every new law or regulation will have a bevy of loopholes the super rich will enjoy and the working slobs will still bear the burden.

The super rich own the Supreme Court Justices, bought and paid for.

The super rich = Trillion Dollar Families, The Emperors ,in case you did not know.

Billionaires are the Barons, Dukes, Lords, Counts and Earls, just like England of Old, so much for the Revolution.

A slave under wages is better and more manageable than a slave under the lash. One knows he is a slave and the other thinks he is free, though most of his wages pays for his freedom, like a sharecropper, got to love the company owned stores, now, the number 1 company OWNED store, the Government.

"We ( the ultra-rich and land barrons ) The People".

Each new laws and regulations simply create a factor of 30+ new loopholes and technicalities that the ultra-rich can drive their private islands through, this musical chairs is simply a law of diminishing returns to the masses.

Once the last drop of blood is out the rock, and they continue squeezing until there is nothing but vapor and powder, then the masses will clearly understand , without fault, that they were never dealing with human beings in the first place.

This 3 card monte world system of commerce and power cannot continue to go into perpetuity.

If a farmer waters his crop less and less until it is only on a holiday that his acres get water, does not maintain the soil and its health and mineral contents, prunes less and less, lets more and more vermin do their thing; so if the farmer is only there to pick and pluck , the yield will simply not produce anymore, simple.

The farmer simply states that he is there to only take, not to maintain or improve, such farmers are in stewardship of financial systems and governments.

All officials fat pensions are safe and useable years after public office, until their death.

They will not and cannot suffer under the current laws or future laws whether found negligent or criminally negligent.

The biggest problem of all is most of us are just like them; once we get money, power and assured exception and insulation from criminal law and punishment, cycle repeats itself.

Most of these arguments are not impressive because they deal with symptoms of symptoms, not the root cause and definitive prosecution of corruption with absolute clarity and equality.

Rules, Laws and Prosecution are for the masses.

Madoff is a token to the masses, like Martha Stewart was, you really should be intensely insulted.

But they continue to do it cause it continues to work, look at all the comments of satisfaction from purportedly educated and intelligent individuals, like sticking a plastic , lifeless pacifier into a babies mouth that has not eaten in days.

Financial Dictators, Oligarchs, Despots, Totalitarians and Tyrants does not = people ruled government.

The Financial Dictators, Oligarchs, Despots, Totalitarians and Tyrants will answer to a higher law that cannot be bought or defended against.

The 13th Warrior

Thank you V.

Remember the 1980's? Lots of bad rich people went to jail.

I feel like I'm caught between the Matrix, Revelations and Inception.

Where on Earth is a Trillion Dollar Family???

TL

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4981828].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Thank you V.

Remember the 1980's? Lots of bad rich people went to jail.

I feel like I'm caught between the Matrix, Revelations and Inception.

Where on Earth is a Trillion Dollar Family???

TL

There ARE a number of trillion dollar families! HECK, the waltons may be! HECK, they may have like twenty members that are among the top 100 richest people in the world. GRANTED, NONE are as rich as bill gates, but they have more billionares in their families than gates probably has in his. Of course, not all are in the US. The royal family in the UK may be a trillion dollar family. A couple may be in a few arab countries. And what of the toyoda family? OH, you don't know that family? OH YEAH, they changed the spelling in the US. It is usually known as TOYOTA! MAN, they have TONS of related companies that work together to make different car parts and guess where many end up!

But REALIZE, 13th and I are talking about FAMILIES! The wealth is spread among a NUMBER of members. There may be a LOT of billionares, but NOBODY has a trillion dollars by themselves.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4982196].message }}

TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

There ARE a number of trillion dollar families! HECK, the waltons may be! HECK, they may have like twenty members that are among the top 100 richest people in the world. GRANTED, NONE are as rich as bill gates, but they have more billionares in their families than gates probably has in his. Of course, not all are in the US. The royal family in the UK may be a trillion dollar family. A couple may be in a few arab countries. And what of the toyoda family? OH, you don't know that family? OH YEAH, they changed the spelling in the US. It is usually known as TOYOTA! MAN, they have TONS of related companies that work together to make different car parts and guess where many end up!

But REALIZE, 13th and I are talking about FAMILIES! The wealth is spread among a NUMBER of members. There may be a LOT of billionares, but NOBODY has a trillion dollars by themselves.

Steve

I'm gana go out on a limb here and say...

Prove it.

A Trillion dollar family???

None exist.

FYI...

That's a 1,000 billions.

If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to admit it.

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4984559].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm gana go out on a limb here and say...

Prove it.

A Trillion dollar family???

None exist.

FYI...

That's a 1,000 billions.

If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to admit it.

TL

Not interested. I don't care how much a multigenerational family makes. Look at the UK royal family. Some are filty rich, and some are dirt poor. But HEY, there was a king, or was it prince, of some arab company that bought a HUGE jet! I forget if it was a 737 or a 747, but he bought it on a whim on credit. And he was just one member.

But REALLY, even with the waltons. They may not see eye to eye, etc... And what of the family that started chase, or Standard Oil? And YEAH, I know it is 1000billions! If you had 100 people that had 10 billion or more. Who knows though. I probably shouldn't have been so quick to say there are a few, but some are FAR richer that BG and WB put together. And some families are HUGE, so it can get diluted.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4987601].message }}

The 13th Warrior

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Thank you V.

Remember the 1980's? Lots of bad rich people went to jail.

I feel like I'm caught between the Matrix, Revelations and Inception.

Where on Earth is a Trillion Dollar Family???

TL

Yes, that is why the world economy is getting worse because "bad rich people" are going to jail.

This statement gives a bad name to regular joes, that is why they keep insulting us because of what little it takes to make us believe anything.

No respect of our intelligence, because statements like those justify it so.

Obviously, as I previously said, tokens are good enough for you.

What I said previously was lost on you and probably not for you, you did'nt read it anyway.

Keep watching "real" news and "useful information" from CNN, FOX, Wall Street Journal and ABC News and others, that "information" is tailored to folks of your belief,taste and satisfaction.

In 1838, Amsel (Amschel) Bauer Mayer Rothschild said the famous quote: "Let me issue and control a Nation's money and I care not who makes its laws".

Oopps, you did'nt read that on the television, so I guess it is not real.

Lets see, The Federal Reserve, (who OWNS that?) gave away 12 Trillion of our money to foreign interest, guaranteed interest THEY OWN, and said they will not tell who they gave it to.

So, as the television show titled read, "WHO'S THE BOSS??!?"

This is lost on academics, teachers and leaders because they are too busy scrambling for some of the crumbs for themselves, will sell out pretty much anything to get it.

Only when football stop will you probably get a hint on how serious things are anyways, since you see that as an impossibility, all is well and will fix itself.

I think they were playing music and had bands when they loaded them folks on the trains to the camps.

Bernie Madoff, justice has NOW been served, indeed, what a colossal joke.

So easy, so gullible.

Let them eat cake, or football.

The 13th Warrior

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4986457].message }}

sloanjim

12 years ago

One guy told the authorites years ago it was a scam..presented it all the authorities and they completely ignored it.... I believe they got hammered after this for being so incompetent as well.

Thanks

Signature

15 Minute Forex Bar Trading System Free at
http://www.fxscalpingmethod.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4965568].message }}

roberthearth

12 years ago

I think this is an extreme wake up call for all of us. We all have greed to a certain extent. We need to make sure that money is earned honestly and then used in a helpful way to society.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4969528].message }}

Mixengineer

12 years ago

You cant compare this guy to murderers... There is something bigger than money. He didnt go on a killing spree, he destroyed many peoples dream futures.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4970021].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mixengineer

You cant compare this guy to murderers... There is something bigger than money. He didnt go on a killing spree, he destroyed many peoples dream futures.

People MAY have died because of him! WHO KNOWS? Maybe BILLIONS! We may never know.
I heard a story about one guy that was rich that helped fund the development of the MRI machine. What if HE had died? And my favorite little story here because it is so nice, well known, historic, etc... One guy that was poor wanted to be a star. He PRAYED for it. When he got his wish, he started a hospital. That hospital has saved a LOT of kids! It created new technology that saved so many lives in so many ways that nobody could count them. The Actor? Danny Thomas! The hospital? Saint Judes!

But a LOT more than "dream futures" were destroyed. A ***LOT*** more! Some of those people that were just getting by now don't know what to do! You see, the future DOES come and, when it comes, it is NOW! Some of the victims WERE at that point!

It is interesting how so many POOR people, etc... think such things are ONLY for the RICH! Saint Judes doesn't even turn people away if they can't pay! It is one of the few hospitals that asks for DONATIONS to keep it afloat.

ANOTHER that asks for donations was started by a small splinter group of RICH men off of an organization often maligned as EVIL! They are similar to Saint judes. The maligned organization? the Free Masons! The splinter group? Well, that would be telling! OK, they called themselves the shriners.

GEE, RICH PEOPLE all, helping out society and POOR people. WHO KNEW!?!?!?

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4971628].message }}

TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

People MAY have died because of him! WHO KNOWS? Maybe BILLIONS! We may never know.
I heard a story about one guy that was rich that helped fund the development of the MRI machine. What if HE had died? And my favorite little story here because it is so nice, well known, historic, etc... One guy that was poor wanted to be a star. He PRAYED for it. When he got his wish, he started a hospital. That hospital has saved a LOT of kids! It created new technology that saved so many lives in so many ways that nobody could count them. The Actor? Danny Thomas! The hospital? Saint Judes!

But a LOT more than "dream futures" were destroyed. A ***LOT*** more! Some of those people that were just getting by now don't know what to do! You see, the future DOES come and, when it comes, it is NOW! Some of the victims WERE at that point!

It is interesting how so many POOR people, etc... think such things are ONLY for the RICH! Saint Judes doesn't even turn people away if they can't pay! It is one of the few hospitals that asks for DONATIONS to keep it afloat.

ANOTHER that asks for donations was started by a small splinter group of RICH men off of an organization often maligned as EVIL! They are similar to Saint judes. The maligned organization? the Free Masons! The splinter group? Well, that would be telling! OK, they called themselves the shriners.

GEE, RICH PEOPLE all, helping out society and POOR people. WHO KNEW!?!?!?

Steve

Yea, American millionaires are so nice!

A recent survey says even 68% of millionaires want to pay more in taxes to help out the country.

I don't know if you're a millionaire or not but, I have the feeling you'd be in the 32% that are not in favor of millionaires paying more in taxes.

Am I wrong????

( insert reason(s) why here )

If that survey is true, even a majority of main street GOP voters are in favor of raising taxes on you know who.

Only one powerful group is holding things up - again.

Can you guess who it is???

Hint: They're on a hill & they have a bunch of "blue" allies working with them.

All The Best!!

TL

PS. No need to reveal your personal business.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4971767].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Yea, American millionaires are so nice!

A recent survey says even 68% of millionaires want to pay more in taxes to help out the country.

I don't know if you're a millionaire or not but, I have the feeling you'd be in the 32% that are not in favor of millionaires paying more in taxes.

I recently heard some stupid description that would describe me as a millionare, but NOPE, I'm NOT a millionare. What do you mean by MORE? Frankly, I am against income taxes PERIOD! But people in the past have obligated the future SO much that such things are likely needed at least short term, but they won't cut, so short term becomes long term.

If that survey is true, even a majority of main street GOP voters are in favor of raising taxes on you know who.

If they want to pay more, WHY DON'T THEY!?!?!?!? I KNOW why Buffet want's taxes raised, inheritance taxes, etc... And I saw A conspiracy planned into berkshire hathaway. BUT, in retrospect(now that I know the WHOLE story), *****MAN***** Try reading the rules between the Class A to B shares sometime! And it is ONE WAY! A can become B, but B can NEVER become A! And you buy B thinking they cost 1/30th as much. In PRICE terms, that is TRUE! In VALUE terms, they cost 5 TIMES as much! Let me clue you in! Raise the inheritance taxes, and taxes on the rich, and buffett will get RICHER! It was true in the past, and it will be true in the future. And with the A->B ahem SCHEME, no dividend, etc... It is really neat, for HIM. I wonder if HE ever converted HIS As to Bs! I bet he NEVER did!

HECK, even the idea of THEM not giving money to their kids falls into place. Maybe it is all just some INCREDIBLE coincidence, or maybe someone spent several days coming up with this. I noticed the A->B disparity. They DO make it clear in the fine print. And Buffet HAS made the no dividend thing clear! And he HAS asked that inheritance taxes be raised! And he HAS asked that taxes on the "rich" be raised. And he HAS said he won't be giving money to his kids. All the pieces fit. Who knows, maybe I'll tell a story.

Maybe one like jan bought a car, couldn't afford the registration, and was in debt because of the cars parking fees, and it was unusual so it was hard to sell. As time passed, the expenses just kept mounting. Frank said he would buy the car, bought it at 50% of wholesale bluebook. Jan no longer had to deal with the registration, and Frank had a new car to add to his portfolio. HECK, sold as SCRAP, he could make a HUGE profit!

Or how about the guy(lets call him frank as well) that realized that silver was at a high, and gold was at a low, and gave 30 bars of silver to a guy for his gold. He held it SO long, and figured gold had hit a high.

OK, Frank decided that if the DMV raised its registration fees, and Parking fees were raised, he would make MUCH more money.

The gold versus silver analogy could be made a BIT clearer in that gold, in this analogy, can NEVER be worth less than 30 bars of silver.

Only one powerful group is holding things up - again.

Can you guess who it is???

Hint: They're on a hill & they have a bunch of "blue" allies working with them.

All The Best!!

TL

PS. No need to reveal your personal business.

Somehow, I don't think you are talking about the people I am thinking of, even though they often ARE in blue.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4973886].message }}

garyv

12 years ago

This may not be murder, but it does deserve a life sentence. After all that is what he imposed on many people.

There are many people out there that do jobs that are harder than serving a prison sentence (especially the wussy country club prisons that are out there now). And the only thing that differentiates their job from a prison sentence, is the knowledge that their life long savings might allow them a decade of rest before they die. Thus if you take away that savings, then you've basically given them a retroactive prison sentence.

While it's a sad situation - this guy deserves a life sentence - and then some. (As well as anyone else that could have stopped him, and chose not to.)

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4971723].message }}

Rick B

12 years ago

Madoff is the perfect example of what's wrong with America today (and most other developed nations).

Do we glorify the garbage man who busts his tail working in the heat all day so that we don't have to live in our own trash? No we don't.

Do we glorify the guy who finds some manipulative way to outsmart others and get rich while providing nothing of any value to society? Yep! He's our hero!

I just heard an interview the other day with the head of the engineering department of a prestigious University a few days ago. He said that a decade ago most of his students were pursuing degrees in engineering. They wanted to build things, develop new technologies and make life better for all of us. Today he says that many of his students are taking engineering as an elective and are pursuing degrees in banking, finance, etc.

We really need to rethink our priorities as a society or we're headed for even bigger trouble than we're in now.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4972572].message }}

Bernie Madoff: Worst Part Of Prison Is Knowing My Family 'Hates Me'

Trending Topics

The Twilight Zone

Any thoughts on golf's latest phenom...Scottie Scheffler??

Should i Index Author pages?

best high quality crypto traffic.

What's the Best IM-Related Skill to Learn Today That Can Help in the Future?