Kenya, Poor Harvest - 10 million will be hungry

I see I have a serious rival in the humor (Humour to be correct) department. But that is what we Brits are all about, we like to laugh. What would really make me smile would be a stray bomb hits Robert Mugabe and then troops arrive and get the potential garden of africa back up and running.

Sure I feel hurt when you see hungry kids covered in flies, poor wee souls, but they breed like its gone out of fashion, passing on aids, other sexually transmitted stuff. It's a human tragedy.

That's why I stick to being funny, it doesn't hurt so much.

Shay, growing something is as simple as sticking a seed in the dirt (not too deeply) and adding a bit of water. Then just watch for a little green sprout to poke through the soil.

Just don't try that with chickens.

Sal, it's population control.

I'm surprised the 'great' US of A didn't come to the rescue and put a stop to the violence so the Kenyan farmers could harvest their crops. Guess our great leader wasn't looking that far ahead.

But the Kenyan Obama is leader now. I'm sure he'll do something. :rolleyes:

It's sad that most enegry problems (and problems in general) would be so easy to overcome if it weren't for the word.. profit.

Profit, yeah. It won't be too long before an old up and coming retro is in fashion again - barter.

Last year after the cyclone hit Myanmar and killed so much of their rice, their gov (presumably strongly "coerced" by the WTO) was being held to the export of 600,000 lbs of rice and the people in that country were getting only the rotted refuse and even that wasn't stretching. A lot of countries just discontinued export because reserves were low and they actually wanted to feed their own people. Every country that goes negative this year is going to be in great jeaprody. Even in the US reserves were gone at one point. We may have a few built back up but not enough for emergencies.

Star69 -- Yep, it's population control, but this time it's Mom Nature telling people she's at capacity. No more chance to argue and debate, we've tested the limits and we are losing. Of course - it depends where you live whether you will starve to death or not as the richer governments will still manage to feed their populations - even if they take it away from everyone else to do it.

The equatorial states will probably get the major impact. They are the poorest countries and they are also the ones who are increasing in population at alarming rates - and the ones who have already reamed a vast amount of their arable land into desertification.

Here's the real tragedy -- either they die out in their own quarantined famines, or they move northward where they will push the lands just north of them over carrying capacity and a death cycle will have been started.
Any cold snap (cold can kill major amounts of crops overnight) will put more countries in immediate jeapordy but will restrict the deadly mass migration cycle. Once mass famine is pronounced enough to hit the newspaper, it can't be turned around until population is back down to about 4 bil. That will be the number at which lowered crop levels and population equal out.

That means livestock, too. If people would eat just half the beef and pork they do now, livestock levels would be brought down by decreased breeding to a sustainable level, too. That would also increase the amount of other foods available for humans - two birds with one stone.

Well, we knew in the 70's what critical mass was and people wouldn't listen. I still hear people talk about having large families. Maybe after a good bout of mass famine (which is predicted to last for many years, not just a few) the world's people will be willing to start understanding the mathematics of sustainability.

I really enjoyed my lunch a bit extra today.

What would actually help in some tangible way is something we can ALL afford.

Feed the Children - $9 a month would feed a child in Kenya. http://www.feedthechildren.com

I know one of the excuses - it is like - 1 child is like 1 grain of sand. How will my $9 do anything?

Think about it. That 1 child may be yours if this country keeps going in the direction it appears to be going.

Take action - that is the only way information means anything.

But Pat, if we support a child, doesn't that child grow up to have more children, thereby defeating the whole premise of population control?

Not trying to be cruel, just realistic.

Where does it end?

Perhaps an asteroid in 2012?

But Star69 that sounds like genocide.

Everybody who is actually already alive should be able to eat - and not SUFFER.

...and although I get your drift, and would have no problem with millions of tied tubes and vasectomies, there should be plenty to eat for everyone, drought, famine or otherwise, were it not for the greedy fascist carpetbaggers.

Yeh, perhaps an asteroid in 2012 would not be so bad. Where can I get in line?

Sal, scary stuff. Guess I need to go stock up on ramen noodles :rolleyes: Then I'll get in a car wreck and die.

I support 1 child in Uganda for $39 a month. Won't save the world, but at least I know I'm helping 1 innocent child and she won't starve.

Why didn't Bush invade the corrupt African countries and "spread democracy" there? :rolleyes: So much land with so much potential but with corrupt and evil leaders nothing can be done about the ordinary citizens' lives.

Um.....hey everyone....you're missing the point here. Not everything can be bought out. Famine up to this point has been a man made (distribution) issue.
What I am talking about is REAL famine - not man made. As in not enough food to go around. How many kids do you think you're going to send nine dollars a month for food if there isn't the food to pass around? You going to go without dinner twice a week - Shay, don't you have kids to feed? You might be struggling just to get the food to feed your own if a cold snap, drought, or flooding hits the wrong places at the wrong time. Kenya doesn't have enough - we have to redistribute to them already. How many other countries will get hit and get high ended? How many can get hit before there just isn't enough. Period.
OVER CARRYING CAPACITY can't be bought out -- it can be temporarily relocated until it pushes the relocation points over. In other words, the problem will spread as the starving do.

The point is - we are going into a NATURAL famine.....for the first time in history -- so it's time to think about WHO is going to starve, not how we can redistribute what won't go around in the first place.

Umm, what about people using their yards to plant gardens?? Too bad I have a brown thumb. I'm not good at growing stuff. And who said it's just sticking a seed in soil? It's harder than that cause I stuck seeds in soil and watered them and the plants didn't live too long. :p

OR what about everyone getting some pet chickens. Then at least people will have eggs to eat!

Valerie - yes, you can save yourself and family by having your own food - you will need to guard it well if a famine hits here.

Shay - People can live without gas whether we want to admit it or not. You can't live without food. Stocking up is a good idea. Growing your own is better (healthier anyway). The problem in the US won't be as natural as in other areas. Over here it will be prices that prohibit purchase in a shortage (in other words, natural famine in a few locations can breed man made famine in others).

In a natural famine there is no way to know how long it's going to last. It might be one growing season - if climatic changes and mass migrations take place it could last until population has sufficiently dwindled to allow the remainder to eat. That's just the problem - we don't know. Right now Japan is studying a new means of returning land to arable conditions (not an easy task) so land can be restored for planting - unfortunately, the land will have to be reforested or it will just desertificate again. Many forms of bamboo are edible and it grows rapidly and would fit the bill for food, paper supply, wood supply, you name it - plus the reforested land could be returned to arable state and support wildlife again so bamboo is being looked at as an answer for many areas which are prone to or showing signs of desertification, such as pasture areas near watering holes (helps with nitrates, too) between fields in farm country, at the edge of deforesting areas.

Another solution is vertical farming. Critical Mass Population has made it necessary for them to start rigging ways to grow food on skyscraper like constructions. Such a rig would only be a temporary solution to the problem though unless population growth can be stemmed....yesterday. If we continue to reproduce at the rate we are now we will be standing shoulder to shoulder by the year 2,600 - now how much land does it take to keep one individual alive? Think oxygen, water, food, waste, consumption, bio-diversity. Do the math and I guarantee you a very eye opening experience.

We need humane options, of course -- as many as possible and as soon as possible. Sending food to starving kids will help only temporarily. We need to get women on birth control or sterilized who are producing children while they already have children who are starving to death. We can't exponentially support starving children, no matter how warm hearted we are. While it is a noble and humane effort - it won't work in the long run. People who are wanting more children should also start considering if they are going to offer REAL help, they could forego having another of their own children and adopt one in desperate need. We have to start being able to take care of who we have here instead of increasing numbers who need help and we need to do it fast.

Hydroponic food is an answer for each family to help ease the food crunch. You might not be able to grow all your families need, but you can sure take a load off of yourselves and everyone else in a pinch. If you have land, put some of it to gardens. If you are planting flowers - make sure they are edible. Trees? Fruit and nut. Remember always that each meal you do not need to purchase will be food for someone else somewhere. In a REAL famine you will see much change in our current wasteful practices just as you see in drought times restaurants don't serve water unless you ask for it.

I'm going to be watching for more reports on crop failures.

There are infomercials for hydroponic things. Grow veggies year round with no dirt But they are expensive-to me anyway. But might be a good investment. I'd like to grow tomatoes year round with no dirt anyway

When you look around USA and know that what is it 3/4(??) people are overweight, it's hard to imagine a famine here. And scary.

Do you grow your own food Sal?

AG - I don't right now, but will be in the future (growing food). It's a bit hard to do when you are traveling and not sure how long you will be in one place. I am going to be here for sure long enough for some plants this summer. I love home grown tomatoes, too. When I get my own property there will be fruit trees, raspberries, tomatoes and other veggies, and I am hoping for a bit of flax seed and millet. I'd like at least a quarter of an acre to devote to nothing but garden, but who knows what will happen in the next year or two. I just hope any severe famine holds up until I can get settled with some arable land.

Thom --- thanks for the advice. Hydrophonics are spendy - but I think those that can afford it should. Same thing with solar, etc. Most can't afford it, but if you can, by all means do it.

Not sure what the vertical farming techniques are but I don't think it was meant for individual gardening - they are talking whole skyscrapers - farm size food resources, not personal stuff.

Shay and Patricia, you guys are correct, to a degree. Yes, if we have enough to go around, we should not deliberately let people starve. That is cruel. But can't we at least put some saltpeter in it or something to discourage creating more children?

Why is it the people who are starving live in areas where food won't grow? Gee, think there's a connection there? If there is no rainfall, seeds don't sprout and grow. So why not move these people out of those places? And give them sex ed, while we're at it! Education will go further to reduce the numbers suffering from AIDS and HIV than all the money the Gates Foundation has been spending over there on medication. I mean, c'mon, grown men are having sex with young children because the men believe they won't be infected with AIDS!!!

But if we do not have enough to go around, hey, I'm sorry. Each of us must take care of ourselves first. If we are in such condition that we also need help, we are certainly not in any position to help the rest of the world.

And Lord knows, the U.S. needs to keep enough rice stockpiled to keep that North Korean nut from blowing us all up! Never know when we'll need to dangle it as yet another carrot.

There are actually a lot of things growing wild that are consumable by humans. The seeds found within pine cones, dandelions, parts of cattails, even grass. Now may be a good time to start reading and learning about what you can and cannot eat. (Eat rhubarb stalks but never the leaves!)

And Valerie, you oughta pull your thumb out. There are just some places you shouldn't stick things.

Some cultures eat cockroaches, so as long as people eat those, they won't starve. Those things never seem to die off :p Yum yum crunchy fire roasted cockroaches

Star69 you better be glad I don't take things too seriously or I'd infract your a$$ :p

Yes, good points, Sal. Move them? Where? How to feed them once they are there? And by moving them will you not begin displacing those who already live there?

Suddenly genocide is beginning to look good, eh? (I never thought I'd ever say that.)

Valerie, what were you thinking?! I was thinking of your thumb in a bowl of chocolate pudding! (Yeah, right... ) Brown thumb, indeed! :p

Whoa how do you splice something?

Very good information here and all points well taken.

So we will let people starve when we could still spare $7 to feed a child and instead we will sit here and pontificate about the woulda shoulda coulda. Which does what to help anything?

While the points are relevant and too bad nobody in power is listening, it does not detract from the need to help starving people alive NOW-

...and from what it sounds like, it would be some kind of error to try to help suffering LIVING human beings - I guess so they will just die and that will free-up some resources, one happy meal at a time...

Those that show mercy will be shown mercy - and vice versa.

It's a real hard situation alright. How much can you help before you start to destroy others? I think that's what we have to look at - help as much as we can but don't let one over-producing group threaten the lives of others. If moving a group to another area threatens everyone in that area, too, it isn't really helpful to move them. Let them starve? Not until we have to.

I've heard comments about the people who just step over the starving and go their own way but we must remember that some have seen this their entire lifetime and CAN'T help because they barely are hanging on themselves. It might get to that point someday that we will be the same: step over them and keep going without thinking about it.

By the way - I put this in another thread but not sure people saw it.
We have a second crop failure. Florida had a three night freeze. They produce 70% of winter produce for the States. The weight limits on trucks were waived temporarily to get frozen fruit to juicers before it rots. Not sure how bad the damage is yet or if the trees are permanently damaged or just temporarily losing crops for the season. That's 2 failures and we're not even out of January yet.

my bum hurts :-(

Might I ask why we should be so concerned with people halfway around the world when we have our own citizens sleeping in the dirt and going hungry? Entire families with children live in cars right here in the United States because they have nowhere else to live! The shelves of the food banks are almost empty! People are literally FREEZING TO DEATH in the supposed greatest nation in the world!

Yes, people around the world need help but why does the United States always have to be the Mighty Mouse of the world? ("Here I come to save the daaaaay!")

How's about letting Europe pull their share of the load, and what about the rest of the African continent and Russia and China?

And if you believe in a higher power, maybe the destruction of an entire people is part of the plan.

There is a really cool organization called Heifer International (www.heifer.org) that teaches people sustainable agriculture and self-reliance by helping them raise and manage animals, like using bees to pollinate crops + sell the honey to make money and feed your family.

Yes that is a totally cool program where you can buy a 'share of a goat' or a 'share of a cow' if you don't have much money (like for a whole goat or cow) for milk and meat, chickens for eggs and meat, etc., and they are instructed to breed them and share with their neighbors.

My big dream is some day to buy a whole ARK (you need a village) so you can buy somebody a whole routine with all the animals.

I hear the pitter patter of Sal's feet coming here to tell me how much animals eat and this is not a good idea to have too many animals that eat all that harmless grass. Oh no, and the animals will all starve because there is no grass in a drought.

LOL kidding Sal?!

Shay - I knew what you meant. And you are probably right. However - if times get hard are you going to worry about the whole world or mostly family first?

It's hard to say how bad the famine is going to get. If the press starts to play on it the earth will be on it's way to being wiped out completely in the next year or two, LOL, same thing they did with Bush Admins warming scam.

Basically what is important is that you learn how to feed yourself and family if outside supplies fail.