Why is it a crime to be Rich these days...

68 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
Please do not let this turn political....

I am just curious why there are so many rich-people-haters out there. Even if the rich person created a ton of value in society, gives to charity, etc etc why are they still looked down upon? I just don't get it.

Think about somebody like Bill Gates or Mark Z. Two people who give A LOT to great causes but who earned their money by providing society with incredible value (operating system and proliferation of computers for Bill and Facebook, the greatest social invention by Mark Z)

Why hate them? So many people do
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Like all people, most wealthy people I've met are good people. And there's plenty of rich people that do good things.

    It's people like the Koch Brothers that give the rich a bad name. I have no problem with people like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates and actually admire them.
    Signature
    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5057020].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      I agree with Kurt (though I'm not a Gates fan).
      I caught a part of the Barbra Walters special a few weeks ago on millionaires.
      The first guy had 6 mansions and a private train car, for starts.
      I can't remember his name, but he started a salon care products company.
      He was saying in his 20's his wife left him with just their two month old baby. Him and the child slept in a broken car his friend had.
      He started the door to door salesman work and from there started his company. He said the difference in success and failure is trying and staying enthusiastic. He said even if you have the door slammed in your face 99 times, you need to be just as enthusiastic when you knock on the 100 door as you where at the 1st.
      Anyways he donates a lot of money and time to organizations that actually help people get back to work and get their lives in order. He even owns a farm where he teaches people how to grow their own food, and yes he does much of the teaching.
      Another person was a lady who buys companies that are going out of business, figures out why they failed and makes the changes to keep them going. She does this so the people working for the companies don't lose their jobs.
      The rich that are being hated are the ones who think they have to die with all the money and don't care who they take it from or who they hurt to get it.
      Signature

      Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
      Getting old ain't for sissy's
      As you are I was, as I am you will be
      You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5057183].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
      It's not the crime of being rich, it is the method of accumulation of the wealth that causes resentment.

      I was a personal assistant to a casino owner in Vegas. He had more money than he could spend in his lifetime. More money than his kids' kids could spend in their lifetimes and he was the saddest man I ever met - always depressed, just a miserable little booger. He was extremely paranoid - thought everyone was after his money. And honestly, most people probably were after his money.

      I remember him asking me one day if we could change places, would I do it? I told him no. I was extremely happy and you couldn't put a price tag on that.

      Sometimes wealth is not measured by your bank account.
      Signature
      Learn Website Tips, How to Do Keyword Research, & How to Write Killer Content.
      Stop Wasting Time.
      Start Living Your Dream.
      Click Here NOW to Get Your Hands on
      One of the Most Valuable Ebooks Ever!

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5057667].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    A lot of "rich" people are so low profile you'd never realize how well off they were. I was thinking about this the other day sitting in Church's Chicken eating the Tuesday special with a couple of guys who are each worth several millions of dollars. They're mega-generous with their time and expertize. They both live in nice houses but neither has a McMansion. They are both active and generous church members and very active in the community. More important, they are both still human beings despite their successes. Not everyone is a Koch brother. Of course, there is a general attitude in our society that if someone acquires wealth they must have stolen it. God forbid anyone consider that working 70 hours a week for years might have something to do with it.

    Thomas
    Signature
    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5057267].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    I think the source of the resentment is not the rich per se but wealthy and powerful entities -- many taxpayer-subsidized -- that buy off democracy through lobbyists, rig democracy through easily-rigged electronic voting machines that produce mathematically improbable and statistically anomalous results, get rid of all measures to protect people, push lawlessness and non-accountability for their every action (known as "deregulation), and erase all measures to protect the environment.
    Signature

    Project HERE.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5057299].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rick B
    There's a difference between hating some rich people and hating all rich people. It's only those rich folks who use their advantages to manipulate the system and "steal" a larger share of the economy than they deserve that I have a problem with.

    Some bankers along with Wall Street brokers colluded to make loans that they knew were likely to be defaulted on. Then Wall Street financial institutions packaged them as "bargains" to 401K managers who then pushed them on "average Joes" who took their 401K manager's advice as the expert that those investments were sound.

    The bankers who knowingly made those bad loans made their money. The Wall Street guys made their money. The 401K managers made their money. And none of them contributed anything to society. They didn't work hard. They didn't provide a valuable good or service.

    And where did those guys' profits come from? From the middle-class IRAs. From the property values of people who are still paying their mortgages. From the lower class who can't find jobs.

    So we don't hate the rich guys who developed Windows, Facebook, plumbing services, etc. We just hate the crooks who manipulate the system to wrongly enrich themselves.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5057420].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    Kenster - its crap like this that give hard working 'rich' people a bad name:

    Fannie, Freddie executives score $100M payday post bailout - Nov. 15, 2011

    but as Thomas stated most people are not aware of who the well off really are - because they are down to earth folks just living their life. To get a good idea I recommend reading Thomas Stanley's The Millionaire Next Door.

    If you're a mean person and find wealth - that just makes you a mean wealthy person. You are who you are - and only severe trauma or a determined will can change that.

    --Jack
    Signature
    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
    Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5057611].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Clark Rockefeller
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5057724].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by Clark Rockefeller View Post

      The answer is simple: Jealousy.
      People hate what they wish to be, but don't believe they can be. So they hate the person who already has what they want. That's a poor way of thinking. And they wonder why the poor gets poorer.

      Clark Rockefeller? Did you just give yourself that nom de plume or is that your real name?
      Signature

      Project HERE.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5057860].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    I don't think it is about 'rich people'.

    I think it is about people who got rich by insider trading and having some elite class that has different rules than the majority -

    This country is supposed to be about equal opportunity and equal rights. Instead we find out that for years people 'at the top' have taken unfair advantage, policy makers and lawmakers have conflicts of interest and directly benefit by their decisions made on 'our behalf'.

    Rich is good - GREED AND LARCENY ARE NOT.

    ... and the real CRIME is that it is 'quasi-legal' - they are not breaking any law on the books per se, (because they wrote it with lots of loop holes for the "elite class")

    ... but they are about as UNETHICAL as they could be and I hope they choke on their ill gotten gains.

    (... and even if we sent them to prison it would be a 'white collar country club' prison - unlike a poor person who stole money for food, who would do hard time.)
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5058596].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Banned
    Even Jesus was nailed to a cross.
    Signature
    "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5058608].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Reese9905
    I have to chime in on this one. I started working from home over 10 years ago after being downsized at a major telecommunications company. We went from making 60k yearly to being told we were going to be unemployed in 5 days. I made the decision at that time that I would no longer be a corporate slave.

    I worked different jobs and in the last few years, I really found my niche as a writer and I am making a very good living from it. I am not rich at all but we have moved from "the hood" to a completely different state, doing better in general. I took a look around and my circle of friends is MUCH smaller.

    No one has outwardly "hated" me for doing well but it is apparent that they no longer view me as a peer. It hurts to a certain extent, but it has also made room for me to surround myself with like minded individuals.
    Signature
    Theresa Smith - I write stuff ...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5058776].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I grew up in a wealthy area. Nobody hated all rich - but there were a few who deserved every bit of spite they got.

    There have always been wildly rich people in this country - but the class hatred only started when laws started getting changed to make it just fine and dandy for the rich to be abusive. Also - listen to the way people talk about anyone unemployed anymore - lazy, worthless, freeloaders etc and so forth. Why isn't anyone asking why we hate poor people so damned much? If you lost a job through no fault of your own and ended up having to bend to foods tamps for a living, spent every spare dollar looking for more work and someone started calling you names simply because you didn't have all the money and luxury they did, you might become a little ticked off, too.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5059105].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I grew up in a wealthy area. Nobody hated all rich - but there were a few who deserved every bit of spite they got.

      There have always been wildly rich people in this country - but the class hatred only started when laws started getting changed to make it just fine and dandy for the rich to be abusive. Also - listen to the way people talk about anyone unemployed anymore - lazy, worthless, freeloaders etc and so forth. Why isn't anyone asking why we hate poor people so damned much? If you lost a job through no fault of your own and ended up having to bend to foods tamps for a living, spent every spare dollar looking for more work and someone started calling you names simply because you didn't have all the money and luxury they did, you might become a little ticked off, too.

      There are people that lump all unemployed people together as being lazy, just wanting a free meal, worthless freeloaders. There are people that lump all rich people as people who manipulate the system and build their wealth by taking from somebody else rather than by providing value and earning from the value they provided.

      That's the unfortunate part.

      Most rich people are good people who earned their money by providing value not stealing or manipulating.

      Most unemployed people aren't lazy and aren't worthless freeloaders.

      It stinks that people make such generalization and the rich and poor get lumped together and painted so badly
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5064501].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
        It's simply the desire for Equality under the law.

        It is simply the desire for rules to apply to everyone, equally.

        It is simply the desire to NOT have rigged systems, rigged rules, rigged laws, rigged enforcement and rigged punishment.

        And a guy is the Exemption and Exception to all rules and laws simply because the next guy has $1.00 more in his pocket than me.

        That is why people enjoy certain sports or sports in general , as an example.

        The vast majority of the time, if you work hard and do your homework, a player can outperform another player with natural, exceptional abilities.

        The rules apply to all players equally, for the most part.

        The only thing to limit a player is his desire and work ethic.

        The problem is most systems, infrastructure, law, rules, enforcement and dissemination of education and information is set up like Las Vegas casinos.

        The House and its associates, business partners and insiders have an overwhelming edge.

        The problem is most systems, infrastructure, law, rules, enforcement and dissemination of education and information are 100's AND 1,000's WORSE in set up than Las Vegas casinos.

        Even The Mafia had far better standards and code of ethics and honesty.

        You knew EXACTLY what you are dealing with.

        Some people are envious no matter if they are rich or good looking or any other quality they deem high because of many illogical reasons.

        So NO, in general, people don't "HATE RICH PEOPLE", that statement is an artificially created, scripted, propaganda tool of diversion and a misnomer.

        To even use that statement or bring it up as a point for any reason is indicative of a consciousness not desiring or care of knowing the source, the Root, the cause, the ground zero ,the reason and moment of conception of the Enemies of Equality, Humanity, Fairness, and real, true Justice, Freedom and Independence.


        The 13th Warrior
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5065178].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seriousbsnz
    I dont hate rich people one bit even though I grew up poor. I think that people are just jealous or think that certain individuals become rich by getting lucky. No one wants to work nowadays for the money so theyre jealous of anyone who has a lot. Obviously there are some rich who got that way by getting lucky, such as ditzy headed tv reality show actress' lol.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5059140].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I've known some VERY poor, and VERY rich. I have known people that were good and bad in BOTH groups.

    It is ironic that some poor figure it is just a game, and somehow the rich just want to keep money from them, etc... They obviously figure it is something to have, but figure nothing should be done to get it.

    Are there people out there making billions, and spending it on nonsense while deserving people around them suffer? YEP! And I hate it as much as anyone else. There are ALSO plenty of lower middle class people that struggle to give to people that AREN'T deserving ONLY to be met with DEMANDS for MORE!

    HECK, I recently worked at one place. A guy in this city (deerfield florida, as I recall) wanted to become a car dealer. A CAR DEALER!!!!!! YUCK! You've heard the stereotypes! That was some time ago. So where is his legacy(he died in 2007) NOW? The company controls almost half of this one car companies imports into the US! They do EVERYTHING from the import, mods, detailing, selling, financing, etc.... The city LOVES him and his family. there are hospitals, boys and girls clubs, etc.... that have places named for him, because he gave them so much. They were ranked as one of the top hundred companies to work for. But people might HATE him because he was rich?

    OK, what about the guy that sold PEANUTS out of the back of his CAR? WHAT A PICTURE, RIGHT? Well, THAT was 1936. TODAY, fortune calls it one of the most admired companies. I don't know about charities, etc... But his company DOES help clothe and feed a lot of the people working today. From janitors to some of those high paid executives. They also provide childcare. But people might HATE him because he is rich? BTW I have been to a number of companies where HS company ran the cafeteria. Yep, I appreciated being able to get a decent meal.

    What about the two sisters, or is it sisters in law, forget. 8-( They decided to make camera bags, and had only a few customers. Well, they have a HUGE organization. almost 100% of their workforce, outside of drivers, are women! Well, they are still in business, and also make jackets, backpacks, luggage, vests, etc...

    AW HECK, I could have talked about the two college dropouts that decided to sell little computers. Do you realize that they were probably the ONLY ones, and among the first, to take it SERIOUSLY!? IBM was LAUGHING at the prospect. Outside of their company there were a dozen or so incompatible fly by nights, one that was really marketed as a TOY, and a couple that MIGHT have done ok if there were a person that really knew about them and had software to sell them. GEE, the idea was SO taboo that they once had an add with a naked guy covering his privates with their product, which they aptly named APPLE! IBM and IBM diehards can say ALL they want, but I think APPLE was the one that built the market, and got IBM to believe that they should CHANGE THEIR TUNE! IBM was NOTHING like they are now! But NO, people fault them for taking their $1200 or whatever, and parlaying it into millions or billions.

    And HEY, COMPUTERS have done a LOT of good AND bad! Which side are YOU on? I've been on BOTH!

    At one point, I had PLENTY of time to kill. I tried to come up with a better way. YEP, I knew about communism, welfare, etc... I hate to say it, but capitalism looks to be the best. Even people in communist russia and obviously china do the same. If you have skills, or a good product or service, you have a chance. Rich or poor, black of white, heavy or thin, etc..., young or old, literate or not, male or female, you CAN do it. And YEP, the one starting the company generally gets a good chance at making more money. I have LONG said that if I could make more, or even as much, money flipping hamburgers than I do now, I would just go to mcdonalds! NO expectations, NO unemployment, NO risks, NO wasted weekends, etc.... Sounds nice!

    Do you think steven and stephen would have sold that computer if they had no chance of making a big profit? They were both up and coming engineers, ESPECIALLY stephen.

    BTW all of the above is TRUE, right down to the stories.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5059418].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

    I am just curious why there are so many rich-people-haters out there. Even if the rich person created a ton of value in society, gives to charity, etc etc why are they still looked down upon? I just don't get it.
    I am sure the genuinely rich people get it, sometimes the more you go out of your way to quietly help people, and it seems there is an equal force of negativity or haters / down putters pushing the other way to keep an even balance with all of that ying yang type stuff.
    Signature
    | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5059472].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Outside of her first statement, I agree with Lori Kelly. I once knew a guy that INSISTED that taxes should be higher AND, claiming that barkeeps were pilfering a small fraction of his millions, said that he avoided taxes since most of his business was CASH! He simply didn't report it!

    Meanwhile, I almost had an argument with this young lady that I LIKED, because she ADMIRED a famous employer of hers. He comes up with new ways to sell JUNK! At the time, JUNK was all he was selling. I've heard rumors that even some of his nicer stuff is just JUNK. Still, I liked her too much, and he wasn't worth it. She probably eventually changed her tune.

    You've heard me! Though I am not rich, I have said some nice things about some rich people. The two mentioned above are both RICH. One has a quiet bit of venice, CALIFORNIA. If you have been to venice beach, you probably put money in his pocket! Many do so almost the second they PARK! The other used to be practically KING of the "as seen on TV" bit. Maybe you bought some of HIS products. He has been in business for a LONG time.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5059501].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW does anyone remember that episode of MASH where winchester gets some NICE chocolate, and everyone thinks he is a STINGY BUM that is pretentious? He gave it to an orphanage, in SECRET! Klinger gets REALLY mad at him until he hears him yelling at the homes caretaker for denying the kids his treat. The caretaker then says that the treat was SO good that, on the black market, it paid well enough to care for the kids for far longer than they cold enjoy the treat.

    You NEVER know.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5059537].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
    As a child I hated the rich. I was upset they had so much money but I was sleeping in the back seat of my mom's car. I grew up hating the rich, thinking that rich people were selfish and got that way by luck or manipulation. I thought this way through part of college even as I spent my time working at local homeless shelters, donating all of my spare time and money to help keep them afloat.

    It wasn't until later my opinion started to change. It took me starting to understand how money works to start to change my opinion. "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" was a big game changer for me. Many people don't quite understand how someone makes that much money. Most people are so busy living paycheck to paycheck or worse they don't think it is possible to become rich without luck or trickery.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5059560].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeKey
    There are some who are wealthy because they need to maintain a victim mentality in poor people to stay in power over them. You can tell from my avatar, I'm not black, but what I'm about to say may be controversial.

    No where is the victim mentality more used than on african americans. Many people in the political area and semi-political arena, like Jessie Jackson, make their money by maintaining the victim mentality and attitude of the people who respect and listen to them.

    This mentality of "RICH" people hating is nothing more than scape-goating from the real causes of social injustice. While on the face, it might not seem the same, but this is really no different than when Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany's problems after WW1.

    A matter of fact, you can't answer this question without touching on the geo-political issues at the core of it. Evil RICH people are a favorite scape goat throughout history.

    And right now, with the nations problems, it makes perfect sense for certain politically minded people to pick a scape goat other than themselves.

    Usually when ever one set of people are being blamed for another set of peoples problems, something wrong is going on.
    Signature

    Want to be rich? Here's the secret: SPEND LESS THAN YOU EARN.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5059604].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author HatKing
      I think that there are so many different types of people in the world. I found out that depending on which part of the world you are and the person's upbringing, rich people could be really rude at times...but for the most of it, they are really nice. I did notice people who think that they are very smart (& sometimes who has a lot of experience) are really rude.

      The same goes for people who are not rich though. It just depends on where you are. Regardless though, I feel that people in this thread will still remain humble even though they become rich someday (or maybe already are)
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5059713].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Even RUDENESS has no tie to being rich or poor. I wish I could say what really makes one rude, but I really haven't seen any tie to anything.

    And YEAH SOME, like madoff, ARE worthless SCUM that got there by luck. Then again, as I said, I figure madoff has a NEGATIVE net worth, or even gross worth. The last two I spoke of were ALSO bad. The 4 before THAT got there by taking a risk, and did GOOD. NOTE, I said did GOOD, which is grammatically correct, in this case, since I was referring to WHAT they were doing, not how they were.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5059840].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    In the final analysis a lot of people have to have something or someone outside of themselves to blame for their own lot in life. Dictators have come to power since the dawn of time by picking out a minority group to hate and convincing the majority to do it. The rich have always made for an easy target.

    Thomas
    Signature
    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5065771].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      Originally Posted by Thomas Wilkinson View Post


      In the final analysis a lot of people have to have something or someone outside of themselves to blame for their own lot in life.

      Rich people BLAME their employees for them not being as profitable as they could be.

      Rich people blame the government for rules, taxes and regulations.

      Rich people blame the consumer for not wanting to pay more.

      Rich people blame the economy for them not creating more jobs.

      Rich people blame the consumer for not wanting to accept extra fees and charges that Mr.Rich cannot justify whether logically or under the law.

      Rich people have their own unlimited supply of blame to pass out.


      The 13th Warrior
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5065989].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

        Rich people BLAME their employees for them not being as profitable as they could be.

        Rich people blame the government for rules, taxes and regulations.

        Rich people blame the consumer for not wanting to pay more.

        Rich people blame the economy for them not creating more jobs.

        Rich people blame the consumer for not wanting to accept extra fees and charges that Mr.Rich cannot justify whether logically or under the law.

        Rich people have their own unlimited supply of blame to pass out.


        The 13th Warrior
        WOW, so all those people staying in the parks, etc... are RICH! WOW! And they say THEY are poor, etc...

        The government DOES have rules, regulations and taxes that make things harder! MANY rich people try to lower prices to get more business. Even MICROSOFT costs a LOT less! and COMPUTERS certainly cost less. Amazon cut prices to the bone, and offers books at a lower price. EVEN barnes and noble lowered prices!

        And WHY do you figure businesses hire? You think it is some WHIM? Do you REALLY figure that walmart, or even MCDONALDS, just HIRES!?!?!? NOPE! They find or realize a need, and try to fill it. If people cut back on eating out, mcdonalds might have less business. If that happens, they may actually LAY PEOPLE OFF! So YEP, the economy DOES affect business!

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5066332].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kenster
          Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

          Rich people BLAME their employees for them not being as profitable as they could be.

          Rich people blame the government for rules, taxes and regulations.

          Rich people blame the consumer for not wanting to pay more.

          Rich people blame the economy for them not creating more jobs.

          Rich people blame the consumer for not wanting to accept extra fees and charges that Mr.Rich cannot justify whether logically or under the law.

          Rich people have their own unlimited supply of blame to pass out.


          The 13th Warrior

          You are right that SOME rich people have a lot of blame guided in kinds of direction but in the same post, you should also mention that SOME of the poor and SOME of people everywhere in the middle of the spectrum have blame as well.

          In my personal opinion, the rules aren't all fair and they will never ever be. There has never been a culture or society ever that has been 100% fair, that's life.

          But I think it's important to point out that our systems are A LOT more fair than most societies and cultures out there right now. Take a look at the legal systems and regulatory system in most countries today.

          Sure, our system isn't perfect and can always be more equitable and more fair, but it's still a good system.

          I guess I am being US-centric here...not realizing that many people on the forums are from outside the US...I do apologize.

          Keep in mind that there are many rules and regulations out there that benefit the small guy more than the rich guy!

          Again, I'm not arguing one or the other side of the coin here, more playing devils advocate, but it's important to point out the other sides of the story sometimes!


          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          WOW, so all those people staying in the parks, etc... are RICH! WOW! And they say THEY are poor, etc...

          The government DOES have rules, regulations and taxes that make things harder! MANY rich people try to lower prices to get more business. Even MICROSOFT costs a LOT less! and COMPUTERS certainly cost less. Amazon cut prices to the bone, and offers books at a lower price. EVEN barnes and noble lowered prices!

          And WHY do you figure businesses hire? You think it is some WHIM? Do you REALLY figure that walmart, or even MCDONALDS, just HIRES!?!?!? NOPE! They find or realize a need, and try to fill it. If people cut back on eating out, mcdonalds might have less business. If that happens, they may actually LAY PEOPLE OFF! So YEP, the economy DOES affect business!

          Steve

          I am a huge believer in capitalism and I think it's a shame that more people don't see the incredible benefits of capitalism. In my opinion, capitalism is the number one reasons for the substantial quality of life increases in history. True capitalism benefits everybody.

          Again it's important to point out that CRONY CAPITALISM is different than capitalism. It's not fair to lump both together

          Again...all my opinions here
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5071606].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Kenster View Post


            I am a huge believer in capitalism and I think it's a shame that more people don't see the incredible benefits of capitalism. In my opinion, capitalism is the number one reasons for the substantial quality of life increases in history. True capitalism benefits everybody.

            Again it's important to point out that CRONY CAPITALISM is different than capitalism. It's not fair to lump both together

            Again...all my opinions here
            Capitalism definitely has many advantages. But it also has weaknesses that need to be discussed. Many capitalists act like it's perfect. It isn't.

            For example, capitalism is reactive, not proactive. We know oil will be getting more expensive and competition for the remaining oil will grow, with China and India wanting more in the future. The free market now doesn't show a need, but anyone with some common sense should understand we need to do something about it now and not wait for the market to tell us we need alternatives.

            Capitalism is also dependant on people spending money, often spending more than they should. What happens to GMC and Ford if people drive their cars for 15 years instead of 5 or 6 years?

            What happens to Apple if people start believing that they don't need a new ipad, just because a new one comes out every year?

            What happens to fish that are depleted soon because they can be caught and sold now?

            In some instances, capitalism depends on people not being very smart. We need to address these instances.
            Signature
            Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
            Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5071741].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Kenster
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Capitalism definitely has many advantages. But it also has weaknesses that need to be discussed. Many capitalists act like it's perfect. It isn't.

              For example, capitalism is reactive, not proactive. We know oil will be getting more expensive and competition for the remaining oil will grow, with China and India wanting more in the future. The free market now doesn't show a need, but anyone with some common sense should understand we need to do something about it now and not wait for the market to tell us we need alternatives.

              Capitalism is also dependant on people spending money, often spending more than they should. What happens to GMC and Ford if people drive their cars for 15 years instead of 5 or 6 years?

              What happens to Apple if people start believing that they don't need a new ipad, just because a new one comes out every year?

              What happens to fish that are depleted soon because they can be caught and sold now?

              In some instances, capitalism depends on people not being very smart. We need to address these instances.

              Thanks for the response...I have a few comments or at least opinions. These are just my opinions

              I believe capitalism is in fact proactive and here are some of my opinions on your examples. As for oil, economic theory would point out that as the supply of oil decreases, demand will increase and prices will increase. That is perfectly okay. Oil, like any form of energy won't run out overnight.

              As oil becomes more expensive because of the decreasing supply, other forms of energy will get relatively cheaper and cheaper. Technology in the other forms will continue to develop and they will get more and more inexpensive and there will be an equilibrium point.

              I am very familiar with alternative energy and do a lot of investment in the space and it's pretty crazy how artificial the whole energy market is right now...oil, solar, wind. I am from NJ and we have some pretty insane stuff going on here. I won't go into details as I don't want to go political.

              As per requiring spending, capitalism does require it, but what doesn't? If Apple comes out with a new iPad every year and people ARE buying, then that means they are innovating, creating some sort of value, and everybody is benefiting. If people STOP buying, that means they aren't innovating or their prices are too high, and consumers will spend elsewhere on something or some company that is creating some sort of value.

              As for the fish, I agree more with you on this point. Capitalism isn't a perfect system and there needs to be regulation and boundaries for sure. There are many fish circumstances however where the fish would never get fished out completely. The pure market people would say...as the fish get down in number, they become more expensive to fish and eventually it becomes too expensive to fish for that species. A fishing boat isn't going to spend $1,000 to go to a place where there are only 100 fish left right. Again, not necessarily my opinion, but important to point out that perspective as well.

              So yes, I agree, capitalism isn't perfect but I think it's a darn good system and I can't think of a better system (my opinion). Sure there needs to be limits and some regulations and constraints on capitalism as their is an ugly side and crony capitalism has got to go, but I think people these days tend to forget all the benefits of capitalism...there are many...and I believe strongly that none of us would be writing to each other on the internet right now if capitalism wasn't a strong force in the developed nations of the world in our history.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5075169].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                Which type of capitalism are you referring to? Mercantilism, Free-market capitalism, Social market economy, State capitalism, Corporate capitalism, Mixed economy, Neo-Capitalism, Technocapitalism etc...

                We don't live in a purely capitalist society and I think I would be equally accurate in saying "none of us would be writing to each other on the internet right now if socialism wasn't a strong force in the developed nations of the world in our history." After all, the internet was created through socialism, by our military. Plus, think of all the products and industries that have been created through the socialistic NASA programs including the Apollo mission. A small list of these products are Cooling Suits, Special kidney dialysis machines, cardiovascular conditioner, Athletic Shoes, Water purification technology, Freeze-Dried Foods, food preserver system, Hazardous Gasses monitors, special lubricants, energy efficient roofing material, foam insulation, flame resistant textiles etc... All these inventions were the direct result of pure socialism and then led to more capitalistic spinoffs in out society.

                Originally Posted by Kenster View Post


                So yes, I agree, capitalism isn't perfect but I think it's a darn good system and I can't think of a better system (my opinion). ....and I believe strongly that none of us would be writing to each other on the internet right now if capitalism wasn't a strong force in the developed nations of the world in our history.
                Signature
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5077430].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

            <snip>

            I am a huge believer in capitalism and I think it's a shame that more people don't see the incredible benefits of capitalism. <snip>
            Me too! That is why I abhor corporatism which is so much like Communism with government and industry in bed with one another.
            Signature

            Project HERE.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5071779].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

              Me too! That is why I abhor corporatism which is so much like Communism with government and industry in bed with one another.
              Of course there's nothing wrong with a mixed economy with "smart" gov helping future industries for the good of the commonwealth.

              For example, the U.S. will never get off oil, if someone doesn't help alternatives get of the ground and eventually flourish.

              IMHO...

              It's best for the nation that we move towards a lot more forms of green energy in our economy but...

              ... big oil and friends will crush every other form of energy if they can and will and have us fighting wars over oil etc.


              TL
              Signature

              "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5071901].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                Of course there's nothing wrong with a mixed economy with "smart" gov helping future industries for the good of the commonwealth.

                For example, the U.S. will never get off oil, if someone doesn't help alternatives get of the ground and eventually flourish.

                IMHO...

                It's best for the nation that we move towards a lot more forms of green energy in our economy but...

                ... big oil and friends will crush every other form of energy if they can and will and have us fighting wars over oil etc.


                TL
                An example of this is the US gov building roads and highways, which aided the auto industry. Who wants a car if there are no roads?
                Signature
                Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
                Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5072058].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  An example of this is the US gov building roads and highways, which aided the auto industry. Who wants a car if there are no roads?
                  Actually, Cars came out before roads. HEY, WAGONS had wheels TOO! And ones with less give than todays cars, yet they went where there weren't roads. HECK, roads grew out from PRIVATE areas! homes built driveways, neighborhoods worked together, then cities, then states, and ******THEN******* the federal government. After all, HOW do you figure the federal government was built? You think THEY ripped up the whole town and laid the roads AFTER the fact?

                  Interesting little factoid for you! I drove my car down a "street" just last monday! It was NOT paved! Heck, it wasn't even very good. WHY? The PRIVATE builders didn't bother. Still, DOZENS of cars go down it EVERY day! Maybe HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS, because of those stupd TOM TOMs! 8-(

                  Ad you don't think autos aided the government? Do you realize how much can be saved EVERY DAY if all government workers were denied cars? LET'S DENY THEM! I mean if they don't need them, GREAT!

                  Steve
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5072842].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                    Actually, Cars came out before roads. HEY, WAGONS had wheels TOO! And ones with less give than todays cars, yet they went where there weren't roads. HECK, roads grew out from PRIVATE areas! homes built driveways, neighborhoods worked together, then cities, then states, and ******THEN******* the federal government. After all, HOW do you figure the federal government was built? You think THEY ripped up the whole town and laid the roads AFTER the fact?

                    Interesting little factoid for you! I drove my car down a "street" just last monday! It was NOT paved! Heck, it wasn't even very good. WHY? The PRIVATE builders didn't bother. Still, DOZENS of cars go down it EVERY day! Maybe HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS, because of those stupd TOM TOMs! 8-(

                    Ad you don't think autos aided the government? Do you realize how much can be saved EVERY DAY if all government workers were denied cars? LET'S DENY THEM! I mean if they don't need them, GREAT!

                    Steve
                    Actually, roads were around LONG BEFORE cars. The Romans were famous for building roads. Our US Constitution meantions "postal roads" long before cars were invented.

                    And here's a little "factoid" for you...I live in the little town were the Stanley Steamer was built. Why don't you research it before telling me about cars needing roads.

                    I NEVER said cars wouldn't exist without the gov investing in roads. And I NEVER said cars didn't "aid" our government. Stop making things up.

                    The point is that a major commitment by our US gov to build roads and highways greatly increased the popularity of the automobile. Anyone that disagrees has a serious case of denial, based on their personal politics.
                    Signature
                    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
                    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5073244].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                <snip>

                ... big oil and friends will crush every other form of energy if they can and will and have us fighting wars over oil etc.


                TL
                Big oil is subsidized big-time with US tax money. In practice, the Gold Standard was replaced by the Oil Standard for US currency.
                Signature

                Project HERE.

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5072062].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

            Again it's important to point out that CRONY CAPITALISM is different than capitalism. It's not fair to lump both together
            OH, I FULLY agree with THAT! I have sometimes even mused that if I were king that some might be rendered paupers and put to HARD LABOR in a REAL prison for 4+ years for TREASON! One anecdote is about one that I said should go bankrupt, etc... EVENTUALLY, THEY DID!

            Maybe you heard of them... ENRON! They cost a LOT of people a LOT of money and subjected them to all sorts of hardships! SURE some were millionares, etc... but SOME were on WELFARE! LITERALLY!

            Steve
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5072756].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    How can anyone hate these rich guys?

    They were on capital hill recently and a reporter asked one of them about the "higher taxes hurt the job creators" meme and he replied...

    ... it's a big lie and he went on to explain why.

    Patriotic Millionaires For Fiscal Strength
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5069445].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mckenzie101
    I think those who deserve what they have earned are not the problem but it is the Kim Kardashian types who got their money from get famous from a sex video then a reality tv show. She does have a business but who would know when all she is, is a media icon for reality tv. The one thing that annoys me is when she says i've worked so hard for this....pffft whatever.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5073600].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by mckenzie101 View Post

      I think those who deserve what they have earned are not the problem but it is the Kim Kardashian types who got their money from get famous from a sex video then a reality tv show. She does have a business but who would know when all she is, is a media icon for reality tv. The one thing that annoys me is when she says i've worked so hard for this....pffft whatever.
      Well, IRONICALLY, they start out with a paupers "We are the 99%" mentality! "But this show will make MILLIONS! You can afford to pay for these sets, props, and this HUGE cast, and I want 10% of the GROSS"! OK, 10% might not sound like a lot, but that is 1/10th of all income. If 20 other people are in the set and equally paid the MAXIMUM of gross, they get less than HALF what you do, and NO expenses get paid. Ironically, for every person that faults THEM, there may be 20 or more that faults the guy that has to straighten this stuff out.

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5073659].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jeffrey73
      Agreed 110%. Not only her, but her media whore mother and sisters are to blame as well.

      BTW, her father defended OJ. Which was probably the only reason her sex tape was even noticed in the first place.

      Originally Posted by mckenzie101 View Post

      I think those who deserve what they have earned are not the problem but it is the Kim Kardashian types who got their money from get famous from a sex video then a reality tv show. She does have a business but who would know when all she is, is a media icon for reality tv. The one thing that annoys me is when she says i've worked so hard for this....pffft whatever.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5073666].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kevin AKA Hubcap
        I understand what you're saying *but* she wouldn't be a tv reality star if nobody watched the show.

        So how much blame do you place on her and how much do you give to the millions of people who watch the show? After all, if the eyeballs weren't watching advertiser money would dry up pretty quick.



        Originally Posted by mckenzie101 View Post

        I think those who deserve what they have earned are not the problem but it is the Kim Kardashian types who got their money from get famous from a sex video then a reality tv show. She does have a business but who would know when all she is, is a media icon for reality tv. The one thing that annoys me is when she says i've worked so hard for this....pffft whatever.
        Originally Posted by jeffrey73 View Post

        Agreed 110%. Not only her, but her media whore mother and sisters are to blame as well.

        BTW, her father defended OJ. Which was probably the only reason her sex tape was even noticed in the first place.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5073776].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap View Post

          I understand what you're saying *but* she wouldn't be a tv reality star if nobody watched the show.

          So how much blame do you place on her and how much do you give to the millions of people who watch the show? After all, if the eyeballs weren't watching advertiser money would dry up pretty quick.
          This actually isn't true.

          1. There is almost ALWAYS SOME money!
          2. There are beneficiaries of OTHER situations.
          3. Almost NOBODY takes simply part of the gross, but part of the EXPECTED gross, so they make a fortune even if the show LOSES.
          4. Even CAR CRASHES attract attention.

          And outside of one newscaster I have heard, I doubt ANYONE has said capitalism is perfect.

          If you created a PERFECT system though. most of the "99%ers" would be screaming like MAD!!!!!!!!!! Oh SURE, many of the now rich would be broke, and many of the now broke would have a lot more, but some of the broke would be lucky if they had enough to eat. And bill gates and warren buffett would certainly have FAR less, but they wouldn't be poor.

          I MY mind, a PERFECT system wouldn't get rid of poverty. It would level the field, be peaceful, and get rid of government wars, crime, etc... but NOT poverty.

          But I don't know HOW you can do it. How can you have the fairness of a friendly barter system with the anonymous convenient gifting ability of some sort of voucher system? I mean there should be SOME way to say thankyou, show appreciation, and simply GET something based on what you CAN/WILL contribute, without the ability to have someone steal or pilfer it behind your back. And public large scale forced plfering is a WAR! HECK, many wars are started on the SUSPICION of such pilfering or that it will happen.

          A LOT of wars happened for man power or land, etc...! I won't mention the countries, wars, conflicts, situations that have happened in even the last 100 years, because it might be too political. That is the reason why I won't name te newscaster(initials RL) that talks like capitalism can do NO wrong, even if it pumps sulfur into the air BY THE TON.

          MANY of the "99%ers" LOVE the unfairness of the current system. They simply want it shifted in THEIR favor.

          Has ANYONE here said capitalism is perfect?

          Steve
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5075923].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            Is there any research, poll or study that can backup that claim?

            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post


            MANY of the "99%ers" LOVE the unfairness of the current system. They simply want it shifted in THEIR favor.
            Signature
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5077452].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              Is there any research, poll or study that can backup that claim?
              HEY, just listen to them talk and what they cheer about. HECK, their VERY existence! On the news today, and they are VERY RIGHT, they were talking about this and said that MOST affected are among the 99%. The ******REAL******* 99%, not the SCUM that merely CLAIMS to be(at least implying that they are in the 99% and thus not rich, not supported, and merely wanting a fair shake). If the "99%" were REALLY what they claimed to be, they would probably be out trying to get work, or working.

              The 99% are AMONG those that go to those parks, raise families, ride the subway, go to those banks, even WORK at those banks and support those that sell, and YEAH maybe even are among those that sell, SECURITIES. What, they think wall street is ONLY some magical place where EVERYONE is RICH!?!?!?!? EVEN all the cab drivers, waitresses, janitors, sanitation workers, gofers, etc....? NEWS for you! MOST of the people are middle class or POOR, at least for the area.

              HECK, many don't even have cars! Have YOU tried to drive in new york? I did only last weekend. WHAT A MESS!!!!!! Even if you can afford a car, you probably won't get one. I COULD tell you about those episodes of seinfeld where they talk about cars. I COULD tell you about my current experiences, being in a place SO close to new york that newspapers and even AIRLINES confuse it, and a restaurant next door has a counter with a sign on one side saying new jersey, and a sign on the other side saying new york. But YEAH, I drove THROUGH new york last weekend. A MESS! OR, I COULD tell you about a rich sales person that once helped out at my last job. WE were in california, and HE was in manhatten. I went to visit, and found he had NO car. I asked why, and he claimed NOBODY in new york had a car. Of course, that isn't entirely true, but many that DO often wish they didn't. You should have seen how my taxi got around. YIKES!

              But the "99%" want to make it hard on EVERYONE! They have talked about shutting down banks! If they did, there would be a LOT of the 99% that would lose their jobs!

              I could say more, but that would be too political.

              Steve
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079526].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Truth of the matter is people want to be in the other's shoes especially if they have a nice bank balance
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5075348].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rick B
    The extremism in the western world today just amazes me. It seems like a large percentage of the public latches on to some extreme view and the two opposing groups of extremists can't agree on anything.

    Pure Capitalism results in very few entitled people telling everyone else what they'll do, how they'll do it, how safe or (more likely) unsafe their working conditions will be, how many hours they'll work and how much compensation they'll get. Some people get rich through education and/or hard work. Some get rich by other means that should be regulated.

    Pure Socialism results in little progress for society as a whole because even if the few who want to excel and do great things try, those they need to assist them have no drive to excel and nothing gets done. Some people are not compensated adequately for their labor and some get paid for nothing.

    There obviously have to be financial incentives in order to get the majority of humans to excel. If social governments or labor unions take too much for the middle class then the wealthy won't do their part. If the wealthy take such a big share that the middle class doesn't have sufficient incentive to excel that's no good either.

    As in all things, nothing is black and white. Everything is some shade of grey. The problem today is that no one can agree on any shades of grey. We are acting like a bunch of spoiled little children. The result is that the class warfare that's been talked about for decades has arrived.

    Hopefully we will grow up as a society before cops start killing protesters and masked men start killing rich people in the middle of the night.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5078170].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Rick B View Post

      The extremism in the western world today just amazes me. It seems like a large percentage of the public latches on to some extreme view and the two opposing groups of extremists can't agree on anything.
      .
      Only the West has extremism? Or is it that the extremism in other parts of the World don't amaze you?

      China's financial culture isn't extreme? How about places like Mexico and South America were crime lords run the show? Or do you prefer the oil-sheik economies of the Middle East? Or lack of basic economic structure of any kind in Africa?

      Maybe it's better when two opposing sides can voice their opinions? There's not much descent in many other parts of the World.
      Signature
      Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
      Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079867].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rick B
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Only the West has extremism? Or is it that the extremism in other parts of the World don't amaze you?
        You totally missed the point of my post. I wasn't saying that the Western World was the only place with problems. The problems of extremist views do exist in all of those other places too. The difference is that I expect that in those places. I expect more from the U.S. and the other Western Democracies. What does Democracy mean if not "getting along"?

        I simply said that there seems to be an extreme left and an extreme right view of things in the Western World today and that keeps anything good from getting done. That isn't Democratic, that's warfare. Democracy is people with different views agreeing to compromise with each other. That's definitely not what's happening today.

        It looks like you just saw the first five words of my post "The extremism in the western world" and you replied without reading the rest.

        I agree with you that it's good to live in a system where opposing viewpoints can speak their peace but when those opposing viewpoints are so extreme that the can't agree to do anything good then we need to ask why there's no consensus of opinion at all.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5080099].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Rick B View Post

          You totally missed the point of my post. I wasn't saying that the Western World was the only place with problems. The problems of extremist views do exist in all of those other places too. The difference is that I expect that in those places. I expect more from the U.S. and the other Western Democracies. What does Democracy mean if not "getting along"?

          I simply said that there seems to be an extreme left and an extreme right view of things in the Western World today and that keeps anything good from getting done. That isn't Democratic, that's warfare. Democracy is people with different views agreeing to compromise with each other. That's definitely not what's happening today.

          It looks like you just saw the first five words of my post "The extremism in the western world" and you replied without reading the rest.

          I agree with you that it's good to live in a system where opposing viewpoints can speak their peace but when those opposing viewpoints are so extreme that the can't agree to do anything good then we need to ask why there's no consensus of opinion at all.
          Incorrect. I read your entire post. I commented on a certain few words and was interested in more info. These first 5 words seemed to imply that extremism is only found in western culture.

          And no, having two "extreme" points of view IS democratic and is NOT warfare. Our founding fathers had huge disagrements on just about everything. If you want warfare, refer to my questions about Mexican drug lords from my previous post.
          Signature
          Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
          Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5081330].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    Disclaimer: I haven't read other comments just yet.

    Kenster love the way you worded the title of this thread. Anyway, my opinion is that alot of folks have a skewed view of life. If you live a conspicuos lifestyle then the monday morning QB wants to mention how you can give your money away to worthy causes. Now mind you, you earned your own money, and, they are looking from the nose bleed seats itching and whining. They have no idea what they would do with their wealth because they live a "mental rehearsal" millionaires life. Meanwhile the movers and shakers are out there living the side liners dream. I actually am more disgusted with the poor who tell the rich what to do with their money then I am the rich.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079150].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ButterflyN
    People always hate the things they cant have.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079896].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ButterflyN
    I love rich people
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079899].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well Rick. I DID read your whole post. I think you MIGHT have even wanted an article in the statement about "entitled people". Leaving it out is more like I feel. Anyway, I think you covered both sides fine and fair, and that is fine with me. I wish people WOULD read it all.

    As for the non western societies? Historically, they HAVE been foreign to western thought. They ARE considered "exotic". AND, when it comes to emporers or different customs, food, and governments, it is almost EXPECTED! That is often not even considered BAD, maybe strange, or just different.

    The US was originally created as a place where people could get away from restrictive governments, and use their skills and knowledge to thrive. It is a shame that the US has become what its founders were trying to get away from. Given the choice, today they may even go back to great britain!

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5080885].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Well Rick. I DID read your whole post. I think you MIGHT have even wanted an article in the statement about "entitled people". Leaving it out is more like I feel. Anyway, I think you covered both sides fine and fair, and that is fine with me. I wish people WOULD read it all.

      As for the non western societies? Historically, they HAVE been foreign to western thought. They ARE considered "exotic". AND, when it comes to emporers or different customs, food, and governments, it is almost EXPECTED! That is often not even considered BAD, maybe strange, or just different.

      The US was originally created as a place where people could get away from restrictive governments, and use their skills and knowledge to thrive. It is a shame that the US has become what its founders were trying to get away from. Given the choice, today they may even go back to great britain!

      Steve
      Are you serious? Why do you ignore the fact that the wealthy have gotten consistently wealthier over the past 30 years? Or the fact that we have the lowest tax rates in about 80 years?

      And that's YOUR opinion of why this country was created. I say it was to give people a fair shot. I cliam they would rather help the poor more today than go back to Great Britain. I claim they would trade you to the UK for Benedict Arnold. Again, stop making things up.

      You ever heard of Ben Franklin? He never patented a single invention of his, instead allowing everyone to benefit from his inventions. Sounds like he was more of a socialist than a capitalist. Franklin was also our first Post Master General as well as created the concept of public libraries, a radical idea at the time. More socialism.

      PS...Keep arguing for more emperors, I'm sure that will help you win more people over to your side of the debate. You amaze me. You cry about lack of finacial freedom here, then make a case for "exotic" finacial systems. Unbelievable. Have just a little bit of intellectual integrity. :rolleyes:
      Signature
      Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
      Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5081368].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Are you serious? Why do you ignore the fact that the wealthy have gotten consistently wealthier over the past 30 years? Or the fact that we have the lowest tax rates in about 80 years?
        Well, I don't even know if there is a source where you can find out how wealthy they REALLY are. To hear YOU talk, you would think gates has a trillion dollars, etc... He doesn't even REALLY have $50 billion, according to most news magazines. And we DON'T have the lowest tax rates in 80 years. My taxes are HIGHER, and I am only about 50! AGAIN, has ANYONE really shown what tax rates have been? They USED to, for example, allow you to deduct ALL interest. NOW, they DON'T! They have EVEN floated the idea of getting rid of MORTGAGE interest!

        And that's YOUR opinion of why this country was created. I say it was to give people a fair shot. I cliam they would rather help the poor more today than go back to Great Britain. I claim they would trade you to the UK for Benedict Arnold. Again, stop making things up.
        Give peopple a fair shot? *****HOW***** What would they consider POOR? HOW would they help? I didn't make anything up, but your post thus far is a whopper.

        You ever heard of Ben Franklin? He never patented a single invention of his, instead allowing everyone to benefit from his inventions. Sounds like he was more of a socialist than a capitalist. Franklin was also our first Post Master General as well as created the concept of public libraries, a radical idea at the time. More socialism.
        And jonas salk never patented his polio vaccine! And he SAID it was to keep it available to the masses, and proposed that others do it. So what is your point? HECK, **I** came up with a number of things I never pattented. One had my employer crowing for YEARS! Teradata thought it was a nice idea, and said they planned to develop it! I'm no socialist. So WHAT is your point? Are you saying that all that don't patent are SOCIALISTS? That isn't true BUT, even if it were, what is your point?

        PS...Keep arguing for more emperors, I'm sure that will help you win more people over to your side of the debate. You amaze me. You cry about lack of finacial freedom here, then make a case for "exotic" finacial systems. Unbelievable. Have just a little bit of intellectual integrity. :rolleyes:
        I wasn't making a case for them, just sayng it was expected. If a culture has been a certain way for centuries, don't expect them to change overnight!

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5081991].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    If this statement were generally true, then you would not have billionaires democratically elected to the highest office in countries such as Italy, Thailand, Lebanon, and Chile. In fact in Thailand, Thaksin Shinawatra is widely regarded as a champion of the poor.

    I think the recent spate is much more directed at those working in banking, finance and property development. It s because their greed was widely held to be responsible for the recent financial and economic crisis.
    Signature

    Do not get between a wombat and a chocolate biscuit; you will regret it dearly!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5081100].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      If this statement were generally true, then you would not have billionaires democratically elected to the highest office in countries such as Italy, Thailand, Lebanon, and Chile. In fact in Thailand, Thaksin Shinawatra is widely regarded as a champion of the poor.

      I think the recent spate is much more directed at those working in banking, finance and property development. It s because their greed was widely held to be responsible for the recent financial and economic crisis.
      Originally, this was due to people and circumstance. Lincoln would probably have NEVER been elected if a person didn't hear a great debate of his, and figure that he should put it in his magazine. Of course, today, you have sycophants, rumors, PACS, etc... to make it even WORSE!

      But what you are talking about affects ALL parties in the US. It is a MAJOR reason why only two parties ever seem to succeed.

      One wonders why they even PAY politicians! I mean they should NOT be paid for years they don't work, and the average candidate gets FAR more than that to campaign for the job! What do you think an employer would think it they found you spent a million dollars for a job that only paid $10,000/year, and only lasted 2-4 years? THAT is equivalent to the average candidate in the US today! INCREDIBLE!

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5081939].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lambcrazy
    to be a rich person is not a crime. Now a days ,people just want to be rich without doing work , so these types of people are haters of those become rich . .
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5081170].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      For the record, I think the premise of this thread as stated in the title is mistaken. Being rich is not commonly seen to be a "crime," if wealth is achieved in legitimate, fair, and enterprising ways. On the other hand, being a tax-money-looting-by-way-of-government-subsidies mega-parasite -- eg banks and big oil -- that attains its wealth through deception and criminally scamming people, lying, cheating, then further harms the financial well-being of a nation through wasteful and greedy behavior...is commonly seen as despicable and deserving of contempt, probably a stiff prison sentence as well.
      Signature

      Project HERE.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5081281].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5081381].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Speaking of change, I found out how Buffett made some of his billions. And NOW, he is telling someone else to do things that are seemingly anti rich! They AREN'T! They simply hurt some people that are NEWLY rich! And WHERE does the money go? Some of it goes right to BUFFETT! But you are too busy looking at the high rates and large amount that goes to the government(some of which might be DEBT from the tax payer), to notice.

    HEY, I was once found, SUPPOSEDLY, to owe a certain amount of money. I told the IRS what I could pay. They LITERALLY acted deaf! For some reason I said WELL, if I cut back, and borrow, I GUESS I can pay.....

    MIRACLE, they could HEAR!!!!!! I went HEAVILY into debt, and it took me YEARS to get out of it. In a way, I am STILL paying. I almost went BANKRUPT because of it!

    IMAGINE how a person inheriting a HUGE company with a sudden tax bill on his hands feels!

    You know, I saw a news program that interviewed a number of the "patriotic millionares". First off, they spoke to one person that acted AGAST when asked about wealth, like ALL should know who he was, and said he was WAY up there. He acted like he was in the top 10. I have seen HUGE lists. I mean HUNDREDS of people. I don't remember seeing ANYONE that looked like him! Several were asked if they would like to contribute some number of thousands to the treasury. They all laughed and said NO! It is important to note that they asked several groups of them.

    ANYONE can SAY they are a billionare. I have KNOWN people that even ACTED the part! AND, don't forget, some may even help YOU to help them get rich! Almost like one guy who raised the judges salaries AND, in doing so, raised his own pension! It was YEARS before I heard that brought up! It ssounded SO altruistic, and turned out to apparently be far from it!

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5082049].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Taxes may seem to be lower to some people, but if you look at the covert tax system, we're getting trashed. What do your driver's license plates cost now? What about certificates for minimum pay jobs - like waitresses, bartenders, childcare workers. All those certificates are is a form of taxation. Look at the taxes on cigarettes, booze, etc. Been to a park lately? They are charging people to step on public land. They just take it over and bingo- you pay to be there. Licenses - fishing, game, hunting, driving, keep it going - that's all a form of taxation . I had to pay $1.50 a month for street lights when I lived in Klickitat, WA and I didn't even WANT the damn thing there. They are putting a charge on everything and anything they can any way they can find to do it. Jobs? Let's take the people that are being arrested on hokey little charges like smoking a fattie and put on work release - put into corporations where they HAVE to put up with anything the corp deals to them because if they quit they risk getting penalized. So they take the public jobs, and the prison gets almost every cent they make. Change the prison system from corporate ownership and you aren't going to see people sitting in jail for things like not being able to afford to be legal (insurance, IRS, etc).

    The problem with rich is that they are acting like slave owners and that has got to stop. There are too many laws being made for the soul purpose of corporate and political control and gain. If they don't stop it, everyone who is rich will become a target of those who are poor. You can't make everyday survival a catch 22 for half the population. The greed of the corporations and politicians is making anyone with extreme wealth a target whether they deserve to be or not. People who are starving because someone got greedy and took their jobs and their pensions aren't going to be rational when the system starts working against them just because it can. Don't forget - there are a lot of political and economic truths that aren't allowed to be taught in schools. Now why would anyone be concerned about students learning these things if they are playing by rule of law? Right now the FED takes 40 cents of every dollar they print right off the top - then it makes how much back in interest yearly when the gov could just as easily print money themselves and not have to pay the 40 cents off the top. Why isn't that being spoken of in economics classes? If it was OWS wouldn't be standing out there chirping at Wall street and the banks, they'd be going for the graft juggler vein and insisting that the FED get booted. If the gov was printing their own money, a lot of the corruption and the bleeding of the citizens would automatically cease. So what's stopping them? Greed. Period. The bottom line is that they would rather split the nation and drive us to a civil war than give up their privileged positions as royalty. The masses reacting don't have the education to understand who the adversary is, so they will go after anyone with bucks. Don't think that confusion is accidental. It's not.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5082455].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kenster
    I guess my point on the thread was that it is unfair to lump all "rich" people together just as it is unfair to lump all "poor" people together and lump every socio-economic class in the middle.

    It's not fair to make statements like "the rich people are acting like slave owners" just like it's unfair to make the statement "unemployed people are lazy, freeloaders"

    anywho...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5084977].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author strosdegoz
    Many people hate them but also many people love them.

    Once you are 'Big' there will always be haters and lovers.

    Envy can be a common reason for those hatting and the
    fact that people are mad in general with rich people because
    they have it all and want even more
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5096001].message }}
  • I guess that would depend on HOW you got rich....

    What's a clear conscience going for these days...?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5164086].message }}

Trending Topics