I Am *PISSED* Off... College Is A JOKE!

by MouseandMice 99 replies
I am actually, sincerely, pissed off right now. I need to vent.

So as many of you guys know, I am in my first year of college. I'm mainly there because I want to have the experience, and I love learning...

However, I have realized that college is not really meant to teach you any useful skills, or make you successful. In fact, it is meant to do the opposite.

What do I mean?

Every SINGLE one of my teachers, from the first day, have one main thing they seem to preach.

"The skills I am teaching you right now will be very useful when you are working for someone after college!"

Writing proposals to your BOSS, Asking for a raise, asking for days off, asking for more vacation time, doing fiscal reports, and so on.

Essentially, college trains you to be someone elses b!tch.

And every since kid in my class sits there are smiles and goes "oh, thats true! I can ask for a raise and vacation time!"

Plus, everyone is under the impression that if they go to college, they WILL be successful...

When I was about 10, I thought about how many people went to college EVERY year, and then compared that to how many people were millionaires... hell, how many people were NOT in debt...

It didn't add up then, and it still doesnt...

Am I the only one in college who sees this?

It irritates me as to how much people in my classes act like sheep... How little drive they have...

Is it just me or what? People should be doing what WE are all doing... Not looking forward to asking for raisies and vacation time...
#off topic forum #college #joke #pissed
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  • Profile picture of the author Rachel Incoll
    I couldn't agree with you more. Even though I went through school and did well, then onto university (for about 18 months) I'm no fan of the schooling system. It's taken me the better part of 10 years to 'unlearn' some of the stuff/attitudes I learnt at school...but I'm a much better person now I have.

    It was designed to create employees & not entrepreneurs.

    I can't wait for the day when I can get my 2 kids out of the schooling system to be home schooled (they've only just started school). Mainstream schooling tends to be rather degrading (Steiner & Montessori don't seem too bad).

    Robert Kiyosaki has written a great book on this that I suggest you read - If You Want to Be Rich & Happy Don't Go to School?

    Cheers

    Rachel
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  • Profile picture of the author indexphp
    Going to college isn't going to make you successful in itself. Success is up to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author alexshelton
    This my friend is why you've been so successful so far!

    Drive, determination and the confidence to be a little different than the norm. You gotta remember though, not everyone is built the same, I've noticed this talking to friends, colleagues and family; some people are happy with what they have.

    All I can say is, try and enjoy your time there! Girls,Beer and Parties can't all be bad huh? lol

    Why not try and teach them a few things too? and maybe influence those guys with little/no drive.

    Have fun

    Al
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
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    • Profile picture of the author doylesoft
      Sorry to say, but the vast majority are just content with the "lazy river of life." It's the norm, predictable, comfortable, easy-going, I don't-need-to-do-a-whole-lot... whatever. I see this everywhere I look. So much wasted and un-used potential.

      I look at my own work team for example. Nine people. Five married mostly with kids. One blissfully single with countless girls on the line and three divorced. Only one other person has a thirst for great ideas and starting a successful web business. Again, so much wasted potential. I estimate that only about 20% of the population have any drive to change their life for the better. Of that 20% only a few percent are ever remarkably successful. I have put goals into place to get into that upper tier in the future.

      In my experience, driven and successful people are hard to find.
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Yeah but--If you hangout in the dorms at UCLA, like I used to, I'm sure that you can get some adult education.
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  • Profile picture of the author Partner Guy
    I look at college as a formality. It is not necessary to attend to be successful, although it does make life a littler easier when you have a degree typically.

    Although I appreciate my degrees, I cherish more what I've learned through experience, hard work, and trail and error.

    Stay in school and get your degree, but continue to build a business that you can call your own.

    ~Partner Guy
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    • Profile picture of the author stacyfox
      Are you taking interesting classes? It sounds like you are in a lot of business related classes. But, if you enjoy philosophy, art, politics, literature, etc. you might be better off in those departments. The "egghead" professors are a lot less likely to be pushing careers on you. (They will, however, try to get you to go to grad school ).

      Stacy
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Partner Guy View Post

      I look at college as a formality. It is not necessary to attend to be successful, although it does make life a littler easier when you have a degree typically.

      Although I appreciate my degrees, I cherish more what I've learned through experience, hard work, and trail and error.

      Stay in school and get your degree, but continue to build a business that you can call your own.

      ~Partner Guy
      Stay in school and get your degree, but continue to build a business that you can call your own so that you can have tons more leverage over your life when you graduate.

      Excellent post for the youngster.

      TL
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  • Profile picture of the author Matias1021
    I agree on what youre saying about money reasons, its really not that great an investment...but its a nice experience. Easy to meet people, theres other benefits youll get.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
      I couldn't agree less with the OP. What college are you going to "College of Bitches?"

      You are not focusing on the right things which is understandable at your age. You should be able to learn something in every class that can be put into your business.


      If you can't then maybe you are not as smart as you think.
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        College is about much more than what you learn in a classroom.

        It is also about building relationships and growing as a person.

        Take time to enjoy college and see it as a transition to the next phase of your life.

        AND work on your IM biz while you are there. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

        I couldn't agree less with the OP. What college are you going to "College of Bitches?"

        You are not focusing on the right things which is understandable at your age. You should be able to learn something in every class that can be put into your business.


        If you can't then maybe you are not as smart as you think.
        Thomas,

        I disagree with your statements and here's why:

        Both my parents have been educators most of their lives, my Dad specializes in the 'Gifted & Talented' sector (as well as head of the Adult Education department), my Mom specializes in the 'Learning Disabled' sector.

        They both have great knowledge of every high/low of the education field. What they have expressed to me is the same frustration as the OP, where they are limited as to what they can teach due to the hierarchy of the education system.

        The 'Gifted & Talented' are bored, because they aren't challenged enough, they test out of computer courses because they know more than the teacher, and get sent to study hall instead... and the 'Learning Disabled' aren't getting enough needed attention due to budget cuts.

        It's sickening.

        Both my folks are trying to win the 'good' fight, by teaching their students how to learn by themselves.

        M&M loves to learn... so what greater hangout than the World Wide Library?

        Learn how to learn things for yourself. That's how to gain true knowledge.

        - Jared
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        • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
          Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini View Post

          Thomas,

          I disagree with your statements and here's why:

          Both my parents have been educators most of their lives, my Dad specializes in the 'Gifted & Talented' sector (as well as head of the Adult Education department), my Mom specializes in the 'Learning Disabled' sector.

          They both have great knowledge of every high/low of the education field. What they have expressed to me is the same frustration as the OP, where they are limited as to what they can teach due to the hierarchy of the education system.

          The 'Gifted & Talented' are bored, because they aren't challenged enough, they test out of computer courses because they know more than the teacher, and get sent to study hall instead... and the 'Learning Disabled' aren't getting enough attention due to budget cuts.

          It's sickening.

          Both my folks are trying to win the 'good' fight, by teaching their students how to learn by themselves.

          M&M loves to learn... so what greater hangout than the World Wide Library?

          Learn how to learn things for yourself. That's how to gain true knowledge.

          - Jared

          Jared, the OP is in his first year of college. Of course he is bored, it is the basics at that point.

          You learn a lot more than just academia in college.

          Well, if he doesn't like it and is as gifted as people say on here, then he should quite. He seems to not need it.

          Personally, I would have never given up the experiences and knowledge I learned at University. Maybe it is just because I am able to learn something from every topic.

          I would caution him from taking advice from people on a forum. Most people are not making money here.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

            Jared, the OP is in his first year of college. Of course he is bored, it is the basics at that point.

            You learn a lot more than just academia in college.

            Well, if he doesn't like it and is as gifted as people say on here, then he should quite. He seems to not need it.

            Personally, I would have never given up the experiences and knowledge I learned at University. Maybe it is just because I am able to learn something from every topic.

            I would caution him from taking advice from people on a forum. Most people are not making money here.
            Thomas,

            Thanks for your discussion, Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discourage getting your degree whatsoever.

            That's why I said this earlier to the OP:

            Just take a deep breath, exhale slowly, and relax. Take your medicine, get your degree
            Just trying to identify with M&M's frustration through my parent's similar frustrations.

            I tested out of all of the computer courses offered when I was in college, and at first I thought, cool! I don't have to pay for these courses, and I get the credits! Well, after a week of not having a place to learn, I got bored.

            Luckily the web was just getting rolling, and I discovered a great place to learn by myself, I could judge the bs from the truth by myself, I wasn't 'told' what to think, I could think for myself. I had a choice to learn what I wanted to learn.

            I would much rather encourage M&M to hang out in the world library compared to frat house parties.

            - Jared
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            • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
              Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini View Post

              Thomas,

              Thanks for your discussion, Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discourage getting your degree whatsoever.

              That's why I said this earlier to the OP:



              Just trying to identify with M&M's frustration through my parent's similar frustrations.

              I tested out of all of the computer courses offered when I was in college, and at first I thought, cool! I don't have to pay for these courses, and I get the credits! Well, after a week of not having a place to learn, I got bored.

              Luckily the web was just getting rolling, and I discovered a great place to learn by myself, I could judge the bs from the truth by myself, I wasn't 'told' what to think, I could think for myself. I had a choice to learn what I wanted to learn.

              I would much rather encourage M&M to hang out in the world library compared to frat house parties.

              - Jared
              Gotcha Jared.

              Part of the great thing about college is seeing something through to completion. Something that takes years to work through and actually finishing it. This is one of the most important things anyone can learn, especially when in business for themselves.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                Part of the great thing about college is seeing something through to completion.
                Thomas,

                That's so true, such a great lesson to learn, and it's such a great feeling when you finally accomplish your goal. Ironically, I just completed a project today, something I had been working on for quite a while now, and it felt so good to click save, and then that little X to close the file, I felt complete.

                - Jared
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Get your degree. It will open more doors for you to greater opportunities. Learning to write proposals, asking for a raise, time off and doing fiscal reports are the little things that add up to a business career, and will be even important to you when you have your own employees. You have only just begun, so don't treat it as a joke or you may miss some valuable experiences.
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          • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            Learning to write proposals, asking for a raise, time off and doing fiscal reports are the little things that add up to a business career, and will be even important to you when you have your own employees.
            I doubt the OP has any plans of having a boss. I believe that he has been successfully making money online for a while now
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            • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
              Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

              I doubt the OP has any plans of having a boss. I believe that he has been successfully making money online for a while now
              He would be the boss if he had his own employees like MYOB stated.
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              • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                He would be the boss if he had his own employees like MYOB stated.
                Good eye... my mistake!

                I read it too fast!

                Thanks Thomas...

                My apologies MYOB
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Relax M&M,

    It appears you are one of those 'gifted' souls who like to choose their own path, instead of following the sheep.

    It's tough being a Shepherd, Pioneer, Explorer, there are far greater numbers of sheep compared to Shepherds.

    It takes guts to blaze your own trail.

    Just take a deep breath, exhale slowly, and relax. Take your medicine, get your degree, don't let the sheep get to you, and I'll see you on the other side.

    - J
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  • Profile picture of the author tscott_87
    I don't get this feel from my engineering classes - we always talk about some complex topic... lol. Not so much about the business world.

    That said, I think college is a great starting point. It's a backup plan if nothing else, but I think with my grades and work experience (I've gotten some thanks to college), I should be able to get a good start in the "system" and be able to build myself up pretty quickly after that! It's a matter of attitude... if you want to be more than just an employee, you've got to pay the price.

    Best of luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author Stallion
      Originally Posted by tscott_87 View Post

      I don't get this feel from my engineering classes - we always talk about some complex topic... lol. Not so much about the business world.

      That said, I think college is a great starting point. It's a backup plan if nothing else, but I think with my grades and work experience (I've gotten some thanks to college), I should be able to get a good start in the "system" and be able to build myself up pretty quickly after that! It's a matter of attitude... if you want to be more than just an employee, you've got to pay the price.

      Best of luck!
      Yeah, I took engineering too. No stupid crap about how to get a raise or how to brown nose, we were too busy solving problems all day long.

      As good as business sounds to get into, I don't think University can really teach you anything about it. Business is dynamic, it's different, it's challenging. You have to be a problem solver, someone that can change, adapt and win. You can learn how to fill out standard forms (like there is a standard for building a business).

      I'd go take something that creates a skill. And no, brown nosing is a skill you don't want (or maybe you do lol).
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  • Profile picture of the author mpeters7
    I agree it sounds like you're taking tons of business classes. In my opinion at least, the real value of college is in the intangibles. You can screw around with a bunch of topics that won't necessarily make you rich, but make you a much more interesting person.

    The best thing it can do is push your curiosity further, and while sometimes you feel like your classes won't be of any use, you'll wake up on the other side with some interesting skills that are hard to put your finger on, like the capacity to write and analyze things more effectively.

    Especially if you already feel you have a lot of business savvy, I would pick a class that has nothing to do with business and see how it changes your whole outlook. Just my two cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author Todd Lamb
      Just don't let it pass you by bro...the clock has a tendency to speed up and times of uncomplicated joy are a little more elusive when you have kids etc.

      Not to say life running your business etc isn't a blast, cause it is but just enjoy for what it is. You are fortunate to be able to view from an outside perspective rather than someone who only has a degree and a waitering job to look forward to.
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  • Profile picture of the author lburrell
    I am getting my 2nd Masters degree as we speak. I will sit for the CPA exam Feb 26th and hope to be a CPA within 6 months time. I have worked in PR (obviously, see sig line), accounting, manual labor, lots of other things. Needless to say, I am "well schooled".

    However, I got my entire college and masters degrees paid for with scholarships (read NO STUDENT LOANS!). This is the key. If I am burdened with debt, like MOST kids in college are/will be, I'd have to go to work in order to pay the bills and support myself. Real Work. Not the stuff I want to do, but the stuff I have to do, because I'm not yet at my needed IM earnings per month.

    College is what you make it. I used it as a time to learn more about online business, IM, and how I wanted my life to be lived. They do teach you to be someone's bitch for the most part. I was (and still am) considered "weird" in my views of work by my classmates due to my non-traditional employment ideas. Many people told me "you'll never make it", "get a real job", "stop dreaming". All this did was drive me day after day after day to keep learning and keep dreaming. I am still reaching for my goals. I won't stop until I succeed just to prove all those assholes who are stuck in their own lives wrong.

    I used college to learn more about IM and started a small "test" business Your Personal GMAT Coach. You should use it to learn languages, travel, gain GREAT friends you will have for life, interact with other students (and see how you DON'T want to be haha) and just have a great time. Your personality will change, as will your worldview after you get done.

    College is a great experience IF it is treated the right way. It doesn't guarantee a job and it doesn't mean you are "smart" if you get a degree. I'm really not that smart, I just learned a solid skill set and worked hard.

    College is cool. Just relax and enjoy the ride. Be weird and don't follow the crowd!

    (Sorry for the changing of tenses throughout this post, it's late and i'm just typing away )
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    College gives you DISCIPLINE. I accomplished in school what I never
    thought was possible because someone pushed me.

    Now I know that I am capable of a lot more than I thought.

    Stay in school boy!

    That's what my mamma would say.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      College gives you DISCIPLINE.
      Not in my experiences Raydal, a Martial Arts Dojo gave me discipline. College gives you an education, parties, and a piece of paper at the end. I have tried both, that's just my experiences.

      - J
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    You are right that College is not going to teach you how to be wealthy...

    But it can teach you many other skills that can be a foundation for other things that matter and that can help you be more successful and increase your potential.

    I never could focus on a major in college... I attended 2 colleges and two universities receiving about 6 years of education.

    I also only attended high school for 6 months and never graduated.

    Its not so much about the degree, the school you attend, or even if you attend a school its about your attitude, what you learn, and how you apply it.

    There may certainly be classes that seem like a waste of time... but they are prerequisites to other classes that may turn out to be the most important in your life.

    Just make sure you are attending for the right reasons... otherwise you may be wasting your time.

    I had a hard time focusing on my major when I was in college... I kept switching so I could take the classes I wanted to take... it was not the best approach for someone to get a degree and a career but it was great for someone who just wanted to learn ;-)

    Best of all... I met my wife at college :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Cash37
    Get the bachelor's. Don't get the master's IMO. That's what I am doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tony X
      It depends on what college you go to. I just graduated from a University with a business degree. Many of my professors were CEOs and entrepreneurs at one point in their life.

      Each of them said this, and I'll paraphrase it, "If you are in my class to just graduate and work for someone else, get the hell out".

      They were teaching us how to work for ourselves, as well as other basic skills.

      So I wouldn't necessarily call college a joke.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Stanley
    I thought the same thing every single day I was in college (graduated in August)... Training to be someone else's b*tch. While all the while I was creating products, trading, and making loot. I think I might have used MABYE 1 thing i've learned in college in my current business(es) and that's stretching it. It was a good excuse to slack off at times and meet/party with chicks..

    Everything relevant to my business and livelihood I have learned on the internet and more or less for free... Makes you think...
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Hunter
    OFF TOPIC: Got any pics of the maserati?

    Post em up... Your DP is microscopic.
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    Wasn't there another hotly contested thread about the college/no college debate? I remembered how the last one turned out...

    TomG.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
    I'm like Thomas. I wouldn't give up my college years for anything.

    If someone was to come up to me today and tell me that I either had to give up everything I've got now (money, possessions, assets, property), or give up my college memories as though they never existed, I’d hand over everything quicker than Paul Myers could say 'sheep'.

    I can never be in my late teens/early 20s ever again. And it doesn't matter how much money I have now, I cannot buy, at any price, the experiences (mental, physical, social) I enjoyed in University at the age I enjoyed them.

    Anyone, can always make more money.

    Some things in this world are priceless, and University was one of those things for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
      Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

      I'm like Thomas. I wouldn't give up my college years for anything.

      If someone was to come up to me today and tell me that I either had to give up everything I've got now (money, possessions, assets, property, etc.), or give up my college memories as though they never existed, I’d handover everything quicker than Paul Myers could say sheep.

      I can never be in my late teens/early 20s ever again. And it doesn't matter how much money I have now, I cannot buy, at any price, the experiences (mental, physical, social, etc.) I enjoyed in University at the age I enjoyed them.

      Anyone, can always make more money.

      Some things in this world are priceless, and University was one of those things for me.
      Amen brother Rowe.

      Honestly, those were some of the best times of my life. I look fondly at those memories and wonder "WTF was I thinking?" lol
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  • Profile picture of the author rlnorthcutt
    The modern education system was created to train people to work in factories. The factories are now offices, but the concept is the same.

    The original industrialists noted that unless people were trained from a young age, they didn't act as "proper" cogs in a machine. Agrarian people were used to working and playing on flexible schedules based on what was going on.... factories demand constancy.

    College DOES have a use... to learn how to BS, meet people, have fun and make contacts for networking later... The paper you get is great is you do decide to work for someone else.

    I tried going to college 3 times... but I dropped out each time. Don't get me wrong... I was good at it (honor roll, national merit scholar, honors courses, high ranks on AP tests, etc.)... but it just wasn't for me.

    Luckily, I have been able to find my own work (real estate and web dev mostly), but its been tough. We just don't have the skills.

    Consider that kids are NOT taught to manage their personal finances or credit... much less run their own business.

    Thats like the native Americans not teaching their kids how to hunt or gather food...

    Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
    I'm obviously a lot older than you ( I can't believe I am saying that) and young people usually don't listen to older people but you've put it out there so I'm going to tell you.

    Your college education opens the doors (depending on what you are taking - so be smart) so that you can "rub elbows" with those who know far more than you.

    Essentially, college trains you to be someone elses b!tch.
    Smart people who become someone elses bitch learn valuable skills and move up fast so that you can have your own bitches.

    Without college you may as well start practicing "would you like fries with that" because its that stupid piece of paper that tells a prospective employer that you are worth working with.


    "The skills I am teaching you right now will be very useful when you are working for someone after college!"

    Writing proposals to your BOSS, Asking for a raise, asking for days off, asking for more vacation time, doing fiscal reports, and so on.
    Even though when we are young we think we know everything - we don't and its those life skill that teach you tons.
    Working for others shows you the inside of a business you wouldn't normally see.
    Having your own business is more than just having a idea or product and selling it. There are those other shitty jobs like scheduling vacation time and doing fiscal reports, inventory - I could go on.

    I had my first business when I was 23 - built, sold it and went back to school.
    I went back to University as a "mature" student. Got my nursing degree and within 2 years was department director - managing staff, patient programs, budgets and all the political crap that goes with it.

    All the while working for someone else, I've had my own business

    For the last couple years I've worked for myself - I have online stores and build for others and occasionally I contract out my services to the area hospitals.

    If you think you can't learn anything at collage and that you are wasting your time then you won't be successful in business either. There are lessons to be learned in everything we do.

    Stay in school and change your attitude.
    Stop thinking - "gee what can they teach me". Start asking yourself "What can I learn today?"
    Take control of your learning and take advantage of the education while you are young.
    Sure start a business but don't blow off your studies it will pay off in the future.

    End of lecture.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
      Originally Posted by Debbie Songster View Post

      Smart people who become someone elses bitch learn valuable skills and move up fast so that you can have your own bitches.
      LOL Debbie, I'm still laughing from your very true statement.

      Metaphorically speaking, everyone needs to graduate 'ho college' to become a "Pimp/Player".

      - J
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      Join The Future: Telekinetic Marketing

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  • Profile picture of the author Bryan Toder
    When I went to college I noticed that my professors drove rusted automobiles, the same suit every day... one Philosophy professor wore the same sweater (with holes!!), pants, socks & shoes every single day!

    I realized these guys aren't going to show me how to be a success. They were pathetic.

    At the time, I was performing magic at parties for good money. In my 3rd year, on the first day, in the middle of an Economics class, I realized this was for the birds.

    I closed my book, returned all of them and left... for good.

    I have never looked back. And, I have made millions.

    College? Maybe if you are going to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, architect, etc. But a businessperson? Forget about it!
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    ~ Bryan

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  • Profile picture of the author famous2313
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Mouse -

      The instructors aren't preaching - they are lecturing. Fine line there. Teaching those freshman classes isn't a big kick for the profs either!

      You are in your first year - right? You have to get the basics (requirements) out of the way before you get to the good stuff. That's just the way it is.

      Use that determination you have to be at the top of your class. You may go through school and learn little about marketing - but you'll learn a lot about business and having that education opens doors for the rest of your life.

      Perhaps the greatest thing you learn is how to deal with all sorts of people and situations, time management (study, then party), etc. I've never met anyone who completed their degree who said they were sorry they bothered with it.

      I see you're still impatient Be as determined in classes as you are in your online biz.

      kay
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    • Profile picture of the author Kamran
      The exception is engineering school. Although it doesn't teach you how to make money, it does teach give you immense intellectual satisfaction. And I believe that is worth spending four years. BTW money is important but it is not everything and it cannot buy everything.
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      • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
        College for most = Broker than broker and paycheck to paycheck. survey the majority of wealth in the world, 92% do not have college education.

        95% of all college grads dont use their degree in the field they got it in.

        Classes on the following ?
        Negotiation-- or the art of negotiating i think this is very important

        Thinking outside the proverbial box

        Monetizeation

        Conquering the 800 lb Purple Gorilla--- This is your telephone, the average person has little to no skills in regards to using the phone.

        Presenting--- wether too 1 person or 10,000 live we all present one way or another every day.

        I have a huge list... teachers teach for the most part, and i am not saying all, so please dont flame me here, because they cant survive in the Entreprenurial world.

        Just my 2cents

        Regards,
        Robert Nelson
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        • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
          Originally Posted by NelsonInstitute View Post

          College for most = Broker than broker and paycheck to paycheck. survey the majority of wealth in the world, 92% do not have college education.

          95% of all college grads dont use their degree in the field they got it in.


          Regards,
          Robert Nelson
          Hi Robert,

          I would be interested in checking out the stats to those numbers.

          Could you post or pm me a link to them?


          Thanks,
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          • Profile picture of the author billaaa777
            I could write a book on your comment, but I am not going to.

            What I will say is that it would be almost impossible for you to make a more incorrect statement.

            I am not going to try and put you down.

            I live in one of the most exotic locations in the world and made a fortune due to my college education. I am new to the internet business, but because of my background (Masters in Accounting, CPA, CFO of various corporation) I have developed a business plan where I will be making a million plus per year in five years.

            Back to Thailand, where only the very rich are able to afford an education. The poor so wish there children could only go to school. It is a dream to have there children have an education, even if it is only a high school degree.

            I donate tens of thousands each year to the local orphanages hiring teachers, buying supplies and computers just so the kids can acquire some kind of basic knowledge.

            I wish I could do more. Even though I am retired at the age of 50 and have more money than I need to continue to live the life style of the rich and famous. I have dedicated myself to developing this internet business just so those funds can go to the orphanages I support and educate the children so they have a fighting chance I life.

            You really have NO idea how fortunate you are and the opportunity you have to make a great life for yourself and help society if you would only apply yourself and take advantage of what you have.

            I said I wasn't going to try and hurt you, but someday when your older you will realize e what a spoiled brat you were when your were younger.

            I hope this helps you a little and you do you best to achieve as much as possible. But, unfortunately when people are your age it is very difficult if not impossible to get through to them.
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm just going to give you a little perspective from the other side...

              Your first year of college is filled with courses that will either bore you to death or seem to make no sense at all. They're designed that way for a two reasons.

              The obvious reason, and the one you'll get if you ask, is to give you a grounding in the basics so you can go on to the more advanced (and interesting) stuff.

              The second reason is to thin the herd. So many people dutifully head off to college thoroughly ill-equipped for it. They can't write. Or spell. Or do basic math, like balancing a check book. So your freshman year is largely used to bring the smart ones up to speed and send the folks who never should have gone in the first place out into the world. ("The world needs ditch diggers, too..." - Judge Smales, Caddyshack)

              Once you endure that experience, things start opening up. A seemingly very smart guy like you might want to look into a self-directed major where you decide what you want to learn. You could pick courses from history, psychology, business, law, economics, languages, the sciences, whatever.

              And, as one poster already pointed out, as you get into your upper division classes you'll get more exposure to the people who can really teach you some things.

              Quick example...

              I spent several courses learning to do some pretty sophisticated mechanical analysis. In my senior year, one of my teachers actually ran a manufacturing business and taught this particular class both for fun and to scout for talent. He presented a problem, watched us diligently masturbating our calculators for awhile, then called a halt. He'd solved the problem, real-world style, by opening up a component catalog and choosing the next larger size component. The analysis would have called it overkill, but it was only a penny more than the original spec and added quite a bit to the margin for error.

              My only advice before making the stay/drop out decision would be to talk to a good adviser. And it may not be the first one they assign you to. See what the alternatives are for molding your own program.

              BTW, the reason so many colleges (especially junior colleges, community colleges and the strip mall tech schools that call themselves colleges) seem like they only want to teach you how to get a job is because that's what most of the market wants.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by NelsonInstitute View Post

          College for most = Broker than broker and paycheck to paycheck. survey the majority of wealth in the world, 92% do not have college education.

          95% of all college grads dont use their degree in the field they got it in.

          Classes on the following ?
          Negotiation-- or the art of negotiating i think this is very important

          Thinking outside the proverbial box

          Monetizeation

          Conquering the 800 lb Purple Gorilla--- This is your telephone, the average person has little to no skills in regards to using the phone.

          Presenting--- wether too 1 person or 10,000 live we all present one way or another every day.

          I have a huge list... teachers teach for the most part, and i am not saying all, so please dont flame me here, because they cant survive in the Entreprenurial world.

          Just my 2cents

          Regards,
          Robert Nelson
          Hi Robert,

          You left out the bottom line...The average person (in the US) with a 4 year degree makes more than a million dollars more over the course of their life time than does someone without a college degree.

          PS. My grandmother was a teacher...Before that, she was a nurse in the Phillipines during WWII. If she could survive that, she could have probably handled the "entreprenurial world". That's really a worn out cliche. Most teachers teach because they enjoy it, not because they can't handle the "real" world.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mredd
            I'd have to disagree Kurt. the average income over a lifetime is exaggerated by the top 5%, who make the real money.
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            • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mredd View Post

              I'd have to disagree Kurt. the average income over a lifetime is exaggerated by the top 5%, who make the real money.
              And 95% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by blackhatcat View Post

                And 95% of statistics are made up on the spot.
                Another dumbass cliche, but at least it puts me in the top 5% according to your made up stat.

                For those that like actual facts, instead of made-up BS, educate yourself:
                http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa072602a.htm

                BTW, a masters degree is worth over 2 million dollars more over the course of a life time.
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                • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  Another dumbass cliche, but at least it puts me in the top 5% according to your made up stat.

                  For those that like actual facts, instead of made-up BS, educate yourself:
                  Higher Education Results in Higher Lifetime Income

                  BTW, a masters degree is worth over 2 million dollars more over the course of a life time.
                  Kurt,
                  that stat is based on 40 fricken years of working..... People go to college, for one REASON, thats what they have been CONDITIONED to do from the time they could read, speak and write. Why ? because thats what they were taught be the generation be4 them.

                  Why not put your education on Hyperspeed...... Go work for a Mentor for 1 year for free, hmmmm... now that is a concept. Instead of 4 years go pay a MENTOR, the same money the college gets, then WORK for them for FREE for 1 year, 2 ys, 3 ys.... and Learn the true inside ropes to whatever it is u want too do. Mentors would love this PROGRAM, and Many would Teach !!!!!!!!!!!

                  Just my 2 cents... Btw, i do love good discussions about good topics, my wife and i fight over this one all the time.

                  Regards,
                  Robert
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          • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            Hi Robert,

            You left out the bottom line...The average person (in the US) with a 4 year degree makes more than a million dollars more over the course of their life time than does someone without a college degree.

            PS. My grandmother was a teacher...Before that, she was a nurse in the Phillipines during WWII. If she could survive that, she could have probably handled the "entreprenurial world". That's really a worn out cliche. Most teachers teach because they enjoy it, not because they can't handle the "real" world.
            Hi Kurt,
            I guess i should have been more specific my bad and apologies. There are a ton of great teachers out there who teach for the love of teaching. However, the majority teach, because once ur in u cant get fired ( Job security ) and 2) Most dont have the Entreprenurial mindset. I can say, i am 40 ys old, and ran into my 7th grade teacher last week after all this time, he just retired. I remember him moreso than all my tecahers combined, he was a hardass, Smart, and new how too push people out of their comfort zone, and get outstanding results. Needless to say, i thanked him profusely, he still has no idea what impact he had on me. And i do disagree, its not a worn out Cliche, facts are facts....... How can someone teach about accounting ? Business ? Cooking ? if they dont have REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE, Be like Donald Trump teaching a Cooking class for chefs, now that would be funny. Anyhow thanks for the insight.
            Regards,
            Robert Nelson
            Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Darrell Hagan
      What amazes me is that a lot of business programs in conventional schools do not teach Internet Marketing. My sister recently earned 2 AA degrees and a certificate in Business Administration etc. from the local community collage, and several times during her schooling (4 years), I asked her if any of her classes taught anything about IM. They didn't.

      Now I would think that in this age of ecommerce, that a fair working knowledge of internet business marketing & practices would be a part of any good business program.

      But perhaps this knowledge would be too dangerous and entice people to become more than cogs in the great machine.....
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  • Profile picture of the author Mredd
    I felt the same way.Too me it felt like the professor's where just going through the motions.Passing me through just to keep up with some quota of theirs.I know I did some horrible work on some assignments they gave me,but they didnt care just gave me a good grade and moved along.The colleges only care about bringing in the money and saving their reputation's.
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  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
    Hey Ali,

    I think a lot of your problem comes from you learning IM first before you started college. The thing is, you learnt that you can be somewhat successful and that you can be your own boss. That's a heck of an education all by itself. Now that you are in college (without the street stuff), it's hard for you to buckle down and learn about simple business.

    I can understand where you are, and why you may feel you are going backwards, but the truth is you aren't.

    Think about it like this, you can always learn something, even if it's how your employees may address you in the future in that class. Plus, it's a preliminary class. You are a freshman. Yes, you may be far ahead of the class, but many, if not all the people in your class, may not have the street education you've had.

    Personally, I think it's harder for someone to learn "how to" from the street or by doing first hand, then go off to college. You have to make it fit in with what you already know, where as people that never had the same opportunity do not.

    You are a smart guy. Use your inginuity to integrate what you are learning (or supposed to be learning) into how you do business now. Soon enough you may very well be that leader that is able to hire these other college students (sheep).

    Lol if you know the material so well, ace the class, move on to the next, and graduate! At least you will have a degree when you are finished.


    Mary

    P.S. It's growing pains. Sometimes we have to grow thru the mucky muck to think bigger and fulfill our true calling.
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    • Profile picture of the author filterstb
      I hear you! A lot of college for me was not directly applicable to what I wanted to do after graduating. But, in retrospect, you can always learn something from any situation, even if it's how not to think or act.

      It's good to get these feelings out and then stick to a plan for how you are going to tough it through.

      I really agree with what Mary said here:

      Originally Posted by mmurtha View Post

      I think a lot of your problem comes from you learning IM first before you started college. The thing is, you learnt that you can be somewhat successful and that you can be your own boss. That's a heck of an education all by itself. Now that you are in college (without the street stuff), it's hard for you to buckle down and learn about simple business.

      I can understand where you are, and why you may feel you are going backwards, but the truth is you aren't.

      Think about it like this, you can always learn something, even if it's how your employees may address you in the future in that class. Plus, it's a preliminary class. You are a freshman. Yes, you may be far ahead of the class, but many, if not all the people in your class, may not have the street education you've had.
      It's true that you might feel like you are conforming to something that is nothing compared to what you've already experienced with IM, but again, you can find something to learn and maybe even decide to master a skill that you are able to practice in a particular class or environment.

      Bottom line too, you'll be sharpening your skill for discernment, so that when professors tell you one thing that you know is not true or the only way to live...you will build up your courage in not having to argue with them or prove them wrong, even though you know you are right.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ricky Parker
    Stop bitching, suck it up, and finish school.

    You have an opportunity to do something not a lot of people do. Go to school. It is not a requirement. It is a privilege. Treat it as such.
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  • Profile picture of the author SeanyG
    College is meant to create worker bees. People to go into lower management positions for 25 - 30 k per year.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
    I have to agree with you on how college is not all that it is cracked up to be, many go to college because they think that after graduation a nice paying job is coming next. College does have its good points too though, it can help you learn disciplineand hardwork which can be applied to your own business (whether online or offline).

    The only topic which is awesome for business is psychology, take a few classes in psych and it can help you tons with your business, it can also help a lot if you ever decide to go into copywriting as well.

    Cheers,
    Magic
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    " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

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  • Profile picture of the author Charles Butler
    Told 'em I finished school, and I started my own business
    They say, 'Oh you graduated?'
    No, I decided I was finished
    Chasin' y'all dreams and what you've got planned
    Now I spit it so hot you got tanned
    Back to school and I hate it there, I hate it there
    Everything I want I gotta wait a year, I wait a year
    This ni**a graduated at the top of my class..
    I went to Cheesecake, he was a motherf*cking waiter there

    Kanye West
    School Spirit
    College Dropout Album

    This album is an instant classic and one of many that changed my life...although when it came out in '03 I didn't really understand what he meant... until I wound up dropping out in '08. lol

    I've been making money for myself since I was in 6th grade, doing other peoples work to buy video games. In 9th grade I paid for and built my own computer selling Dreamcast backups, Music CDs and VCD movies (LOL). It all went like that until later in high school when I started listening to my family, thinking they had my best interests at heart.I love em for what they did for me, but they live from paycheck to paycheck and I've seen where that leads over time. And it's to a place I don't want to be.

    Anyways, i listened to them from 2003 until mid 2008 and during that time I thought something was wrong with me when I kept was going to school off and on, and switching jobs after about 6 months because I got fed up with the BS they try and pull, dangling your job over your head, willing to let you go at any moment if you don't comply 100%.

    Don't get me wrong, I am a real hard worker that works smart and I enjoy working 14+ hours a day, it's just that I've decided to get paid based on the results of the work I do, not based on hours at a location with a boss thats a control freak, a company that will get rid of your ass the moment someone screams recession, and having the government tax my money before I even see it. With school, it's like Kanye said above, you have to wait there before you start seeing the fruit of your labor, and even then it's not guaranteed that your degree will land you a job or the salary that was shown at places that shows what certain degrees earn.

    I quit my measly minimum wage part time office job, along with school in August 08 and here I am now. After making tons of mistakes I am starting to make sales from my new business while branching out into IM, soon to start making sales from this venture, and eventually going to outsource everything. I have no doubt in my mind that this will work because I simply don't believe in defeat, nor doing what it takes to make it work.

    Anyways, I digress. Use school, don't let school use you.
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    “First, say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.” -Epictetus

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  • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
    This article by Steve Pavlina is the best advice I have ever read about how to approach college. This will answer the question: Why am I going to college?


    10 Tips for College Students
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Although it's a good grounding... you'll never get people teaching you otherwise. Why, because all they know in life is to work for someone else.

    So they can't teach what they do not understand. It's no diferent in the real world. I share a serviced office, and boy, try explaining what you do.

    They all come in in their corporate suits... me, unshaven and wearing an Aloha shirt. Life is good
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Moffatt
    Bro,

    Just sleep with all the hot girls in your class. That's what college is for!
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
      LOL... It is wonderful that you see that now. As you have discovered, most in college don't.

      College is a game. A degree won't guarantee success, but a degree does get you past some of the gatekeepers in the world, if you care. Donald Trump got his MBA but I would expect that he learned a whole lot more by doing.
      Signature

      Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. -Winston Churchill

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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    PS. And here's some non-monetary benefits to getting a degree:

    OTHER BENEFITS OF HIGHER EDUCATION

    College graduates also enjoy benefits beyond increased income. A 1998 report published by the Institute for Higher Education Policy reviews the individual benefits that college graduates enjoy, including higher levels of saving, increased personal/professional mobility, improved quality of life for their offspring, better consumer decision making, and more hobbies and leisure activities (Institute for Higher Education Policy, 1998). According to a report published by the Carnegie Foundation, non-monetary individual benefits of higher education include the tendency for postsecondary students to become more open-minded, more cultured, more rational, more consistent and less authoritarian; these benefits are also passed along to succeeding generations (Rowley and Hurtado, 2002). Additionally, college attendance has been shown to "decrease prejudice, enhance knowledge of world affairs and enhance social status" while increasing economic and job security for those who earn bachelor's degrees (Ibid.)
    Research has also consistently shown a positive correlation between completion of higher education and good health, not only for oneself, but also for one's children. In fact, "parental schooling levels (after controlling for differences in earnings) are positively correlated with the health status of their children" and "increased schooling (and higher relative income) are correlated with lower mortality rates for given age brackets" (Cohn and Geske, 1992).
    And there's even more benefits, plus actual sources:

    The Value of a College Degree. ERIC Digest.

    And no, I don't have a degree. I'm just not in denial.



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  • Profile picture of the author Neil S
    I went to College for Marketing and now that I do "Internet Marketing" I haven't applied a damn thing I learned yet. Same with almost all of my friends, they got degrees in Business, Psychology, Liberal Arts, and none of them are using anything they learned in College for their careers.

    I have come to the realization that it is not what you learned that is important to people, it is if you graduated and have that piece of paper. The piece of paper shows that you accomplished something and if given more responsibility you can accomplish more. The system is completely ass backwards.

    My advice to you is view College as a way of bettering yourself, becoming more well rounded, and building relationships. Don't get caught up in simply learning things that will make you claim to make you money when you get older. Take classes that you will be genuinely interested in. Join organizations and clubs that share your interest. Make friends, foster relationships, and have a lot of sex with young women because by God now is the time!

    You already possess the tools to have a successful career, for now just take the opportunities to enjoy yourself and enrich your life.
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    All these threads become are the folks who went to college bashing those who didn't or dare suggest it is not needed.

    There are many paths to success out there. College may or may not be part of the equation for some people.

    Most people unknowingly perceive any suggestion that there is a different path to success than the one they've taken as an attack on their self-worth. There is no need to respond with a chest-thumping justification of your life-choices. College or no, if you're happy- good for you!

    I know most of you went to school by working 20 hours in a coal mine, walking uphill both ways so you could feed orphans and piss rainbows...

    -_-
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
    I am going back to University to study Film and Cinema... because it interests me... not because I want to work for someone...

    I find that schools raise sheep ready to do the 9 to 5... Anyways it was like this in my case, my parents are not any different; get a degree and get a "secure job" and your life is set! ...I say B.S.

    I have learned more about Marketing in 15 months from Warriors and other sources than my friend who did 2 years of College and is currently on the 2nd year in University in some Marketing program - sad but true...

    So here are my $0.02
    Go to school for personal satisfaction and knowledge - nothing else. Don't rely on that diploma or think it will get you anywhere in life.

    Exhibit A

    Alex
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    Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
    The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsstuff
    I'm not college educated and not in a loop where I am around students these days.
    So, is your schooling to teach you to be a sheep or a leader of sheep?
    Maybe if you change your perspective of what you can get out of an education, it could be more valuable to you.

    Most CEOs of larege companies are college educated. If you run your own IM company with real employees, would furthering your education be valubable?
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    Bob Hale
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
    Good thing I'm not the only one who believes this.

    Well, I'm in it, I'm almost done and I can afford it.

    Sure the classes are crap and they will do you no good. But it does have a few benefits.

    You can meet people, you can sleep around and you can party like crazy.

    Networking, believe it or not I always tell my professors that I want to do a presentation on my online business, they always end up impressed and I've been called for 3 local conferences and 1 even hired me for coaching.

    Professors have contacts, one said he had a friend who might be interested in me coaching his marketing department (for a huge multinational corporation).

    It's fun, you get a nice lifetime experience and a fancy (yet pretty much worthless) piece of paper that says you went through it. Then you can even grab an MBA and brag about it.

    Truth is, I learn more and make more money in 1 month of Internet Marketing than I have in 2 years of college. Yet I don't regret having gone through it.

    Do it for the life experience, don't expect much from it career wise.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    Stop whining. Schools were created, by nature and design, for this exact purpose, among others.

    Here's a nice history lesson on the history of schools.
    Link.
    Page 6 gets pretty good.

    By the way, the link is a great sample of a Presell.
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  • Profile picture of the author maximus242
    Originally Posted by MouseandMice View Post

    I am actually, sincerely, pissed off right now. I need to vent.

    So as many of you guys know, I am in my first year of college. I'm mainly there because I want to have the experience, and I love learning...

    However, I have realized that college is not really meant to teach you any useful skills, or make you successful. In fact, it is meant to do the opposite.

    What do I mean?

    Every SINGLE one of my teachers, from the first day, have one main thing they seem to preach.

    "The skills I am teaching you right now will be very useful when you are working for someone after college!"

    Writing proposals to your BOSS, Asking for a raise, asking for days off, asking for more vacation time, doing fiscal reports, and so on.

    Essentially, college trains you to be someone elses b!tch.

    And every since kid in my class sits there are smiles and goes "oh, thats true! I can ask for a raise and vacation time!"

    Plus, everyone is under the impression that if they go to college, they WILL be successful...

    When I was about 10, I thought about how many people went to college EVERY year, and then compared that to how many people were millionaires... hell, how many people were NOT in debt...

    It didn't add up then, and it still doesnt...

    Am I the only one in college who sees this?

    It irritates me as to how much people in my classes act like sheep... How little drive they have...

    Is it just me or what? People should be doing what WE are all doing... Not looking forward to asking for raisies and vacation time...
    The purpose of the education system has always been to train labourers. It is by design, the training system of workers. The government doesnt hide this fact either. If you want to be a leader of men, it must first begin in the mind and then the body will follow.

    Buy the book the swordless samurai if you truly want to rise to power.
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    • Profile picture of the author toddrobb
      Sad but true, the world needs worker bees, not everyone can be the boss. At the end of the day, colleges are businesses with employees towing the company line. The value is the conformity, being able to function without mom or dad waking you up to go to school etc. I went in the Air Force straight out of high school, looking back on it I don't regret not going to college for one second. I do believe had I gone to college I would have a completely different set of life experiences that may or may not have helped me.

      Fortunately for me, I didn't have to go into debt to serve my country, I think that the money is clouding your judgment. Is the experience you are getting worth the thousands of dollars you are paying in tuition? Maybe, maybe not, but you won't be able to find that out until you are well down the line.

      What do they say "Youth is wasted on the young". Just like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Francis Ochoco
    The schooling system is set up to create employees, not entrepreneurs.

    I am having my first child this year and I'm seriously considering home schooling them (not just so they can be free and individual thinkers, but for many other reasons as well).
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    • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
      Originally Posted by AuctionExecutive View Post

      I'm seriously considering home schooling them (not just so they can be free and individual thinkers, but for many other reasons as well).
      Learning from one person in one house, for 17 years? How on earth will that make them free and individual thinkers? Sounds more like prison.

      Parents who home school secretly desire (I mean pray for) the exact opposite. Yet, they'll go blue in the face telling you that's just not true.

      Home school them, and they will think the way you teach them to think, rather than having 1000 other little individual thinkers from which watch, learn, and consider.

      Home school if you must, just don't say it's to create free and individual thinkers. It's not.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
        Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

        Leaning from one person in one house? How on earth will that make them free and individual thinkers? Sounds more like prison.

        Parents who home school secretly desire the exact opposite.

        Home school them, and they will think the way you teach them to think, rather than having 1000 other little individual thinkers from which watch, learn, and consider.

        Home school all you want, just don't say it's to create free and individual thinkers. It's not.
        You are being very general about homeschooling.

        Many of the people who I know that home school their kids, do a far better job than the authorities.

        I have yet to see a bad example of home schooling to be honest. The kids still interact with other kids, usually other home schoolers etc.

        Don't forget there are MANY problems in schools today, not the least of which is violence, drugs, bullying, not allowed to go at your own pace, slow students schooled with bright pupils, neither group benefits, bad teachers etc. etc. etc.

        Anyway, I think home schooling can be great if there are no good alternatives.
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      • Profile picture of the author Francis Ochoco
        Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

        Learning from one person in one house? How on earth will that make them free and individual thinkers? Sounds more like prison.
        And going to school doesn't feel like prison?


        Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

        Parents who home school secretly desire (I mean pray for) the exact opposite. Yet, they'll go blue in the face telling you that's just not true.
        Good point. I think it all depends on the parents.

        Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

        Home school them, and they will think the way you teach them to think, rather than having 1000 other little individual thinkers from which watch, learn, and consider.
        If I do homeschool my kids, I plan on socializing them by getting them involved in sports and other community activities.

        Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

        Home school all you want, just don't say it's to create free and individual thinkers. It's not.
        I think they have a lesser chance of being a free and individual thinker if they go to school. In school, you are pressured to conform to being part of a group.

        I'm not saying home schooling is better, as there are pros and cons to everything. I mean, just look at how many kids drop out of school or do finish school and end up going nowhere in life.

        The big benefit I see in homeschooling is being able to bond with your child at a young age and spending valuable time with them.

        I'm still not sure what I'm going to do but am seriously considering it and will do more research on this when the time is right.

        You did make some good points though that got me thinking.
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        • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
          Francis, i have hammered this one too death with my wife, we have one gifted child, who now is in 8th grade taking 11 grade classes. I think homeschooling would be fantasic, why train your kids to be Lemmings by going to school. Right now both of our kids are in mentorship programs with professionals, who are in a field that they are interested in. Its a suggestion. Good luck. I love the concept, homeschooling with mentors, and public programs or sports for people introduction.

          Regards,
          Robert Nelson



          Originally Posted by AuctionExecutive View Post

          And going to school doesn't feel like prison?




          Good point. I think it all depends on the parents.



          If I do homeschool my kids, I plan on socializing them by getting them involved in sports and other community activities.



          I think they have a lesser chance of being a free and individual thinker if they go to school. In school, you are pressured to conform to being part of a group.

          I'm not saying home schooling is better, as there are pros and cons to everything. I mean, just look at how many kids drop out of school or do finish school and end up going nowhere in life.

          The big benefit I see in homeschooling is being able to bond with your child at a young age and spending valuable time with them.

          I'm still not sure what I'm going to do but am seriously considering it and will do more research on this when the time is right.

          You did make some good points though that got me thinking.
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      • Profile picture of the author Keith Gilbert
        Originally Posted by IMChick View Post

        I've only seen emotional and social misfits from many homeschooling experiments through the years.
        Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

        Learning from one person in one house, for 17 years? How on earth will that make them free and individual thinkers? Sounds more like prison.
        Public school is the real prison.

        The local high school I would have been going to, firstly, just looks like a prison. Enclosed in barb wire, buildings that looks like jails...

        But public school is also a prison in a figurative sense. Public school may seem like the place of diversity and free thought. But it's the opposite of that. Kids are taught that they need to look a certain way, speak a certain way, or act a certain way to be "normal." They're shown that they need to follow the latest fads and trends to be accepted.

        Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

        Home school if you must, just don't say it's to create free and individual thinkers. It's not.
        Absolutely false.

        I would probably never be an entrepreneur today and be earning such a good income as a college student at age 18 if I had not been homeschooled.

        Homeschooling creates free thinkers just through its nature. The fact that children see that if you do not like one solution ("normal" school), you can "be an entrepreneur" and create your own solution.

        Just as my parents did not like the "normal" solution of public (or private) school and chose homeschooling, I do not like the "normal" solution of a JOB and am creating my own solution to that problem - being an entrepreneur.

        Before you two give homeschooling such a bad name, perhaps you had better increase the number of cases you base your opinion on.

        No one disagrees that some parents do an absolutely terrible job of homeschooling (or, rather, "unschooling"), others do a lot better. My parents are some of them.
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        • Profile picture of the author IMChick
          Originally Posted by IMChick View Post

          I've only seen emotional and social misfits from many homeschooling experiments through the years.
          Don't take my generalization on my own experiences out of context here, I'm not calling personal names here. But, coupled with the reasoning outlined in John's post below, our argument is stronger for a wider experience and education base.


          Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

          Learning from one person in one house, for 17 years? How on earth will that make them free and individual thinkers? Sounds more like prison.

          Parents who home school secretly desire (I mean pray for) the exact opposite. Yet, they'll go blue in the face telling you that's just not true.

          Well, it looks like John and I hit a nerve here. I still stand by my original post on the topic, mainly because of some circular reasoning I've seen against my stated position. What I didn't address is the safety of the available school in the community. That's a different issue and may need a different solution, and home schooling may or may not be an option in that case.

          Originally Posted by Keith Gilbert View Post

          They're shown that they need to follow the latest fads and trends to be accepted.

          I would probably never be an entrepreneur today and be earning such a good income as a college student at age 18 if I had not been homeschooled.
          Well, I can say with 100% certainty that you will not be on a Varsity Sports Team or march in the 4th of July parade with the Marching Band.

          Your personalilty and desires, more likely than not, would lead you into the same interests whether or not you home school with you parents, because after all, they have an undue amount of influence in their own household in every subject area, not just academics.

          The point here is the broadened range of experience that is lost forever.

          Originally Posted by AuctionExecutive View Post

          I think it all depends on the parents.


          The big benefit I see in homeschooling is being able to bond with your child at a young age and spending valuable time with them.

          I'm still not sure what I'm going to do but am seriously considering it and will do more research on this when the time is right.

          You did make some good points though that got me thinking.
          If this is one of the benefits on the 'short list' for homeschooling, consider this. Make your family your priority. Become what you want financially with IM. Be stable and secure. Give your family every opportunity because your lifestyle allows it (including traditional school).

          Make sure that you are at every event, outing, class trip, bake sale and concert. Allow your children to grow and develop without being smothered or excluded from the rest of society. Don't overextend your own social obligations and focus on your family. Make a block of time every single day to go over daily school work, special projects and homework. Add topics of your own interest. Be an involved parent. Just don't close them off from the rest of the world and think that it's a good thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    At the end of the day, the individual's own abilities and outlook on life determine most, perhaps all of that person's success in life.

    If you are very strong mentally you don't need a degree at all.

    By that I mean, some people feel that they have to get a degree so that they are "accepted" or for the status aspect of it.

    If you can rise above that false premise, by having enough self determination and confidence in your own ability to create your own future, then you don't need someone else to certify that you can do well in life.

    If you just know that you will succeed no matter what, and if you overcome any and all obstacles that life puts in your way, you can succeed in anything you put your mind to.

    If you choose the corporate route, then a degree is usually necessary as they have that "educational think". If you want to be an entrepreneur then the only certificate you need is one you write out for yourself that says you WILL succeed.

    Be honest with yourself and make your own decide. Don't cop out though because you can't be bothered or because you want to go and sit on the beach all day instead.

    You can always do both - have a business and do your degree. It can be a safety net for you in the future and a degree can also open doors in case you ever want to emigrate somewhere etc...

    I hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMChick
    I disagree with the OP, and am frankly horrified that he's missing the point and letting it all pass him by.

    College is much more than booksmarts and boring professors. It's a chance to learn and grow and mature in a closed environment if you can keep your ego out of the way long enough so you don't blow the opportunity to stretch yourself and be exposed to new and different experiences, both academically and socially.

    Apply yourself and try to get something out of every situation, whether you currently think it's boring or stupid or whatever.

    And keep your eyes and ears open while focusing on the goal--if that goal is being an IM mogul, you couldn't be more wrong by thinking that you'll never need or use any of those tasks you're complaining about when you are running your own businesses and calling your own shots.
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    • Profile picture of the author IMChick
      Originally Posted by AuctionExecutive View Post

      I'm seriously considering home schooling them (not just so they can be free and individual thinkers, but for many other reasons as well).
      Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

      Leaning from one person in one house? How on earth will that make them free and individual thinkers? Sounds more like prison.

      Parents who home school secretly desire (I mean pray for) the exact opposite. Yet, they'll go blue in the face telling you that's just not true.

      Home school them, and they will think the way you teach them to think, rather than having 1000 other little individual thinkers from which watch, learn, and consider.

      Home school all you want, just don't say it's to create free and individual thinkers. It's not.
      Whoah! I have to agree with John here, even if you add that whole home-school socializing to the mix. I feel sorry for this child growing up in a closed environment that selectively shelters them from the real world and stunts their social growth.

      I've only seen emotional and social misfits from many homeschooling experiments through the years. As a matter of fact, an acquaintance from my school days is home schooling 3 children. She herself was a straight D+ student and somehow feels qualified to inflict this on her own children, which should be criminal in my opinion. Her oldest, a college freshman, is being 'eaten alive' by her new school mates. To say that she doesn't fit in and lacks the basic coping skills is an understatement here. Very sad.

      If it weren't for the school cafeteria, I would never have learned how to spit milk out of my nose. Now that's a valuable life skill.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by IMChick View Post

        If it weren't for the school cafeteria, I would never have learned how to spit milk out of my nose. Now that's a valuable life skill.
        Thanks a lot. Now I have to waste 10 minutes making sure I got all the Mountain Dew off my screen and out of my keyboard...

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        • Profile picture of the author IMChick
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Thanks a lot. Now I have to waste 10 minutes making sure I got all the Mountain Dew off my screen and out of my keyboard...

          Hee hee, sorry. :p Not one of my most lady-like traits. PM me if you would like private lessons for your kids on the house. Think that video will go viral?

          Seriously, after frizzling out a keyboard or two in my time, I actually wrapped a new one in loose plastic wrap and taped it on the bottom. Worked for a time, kind of like in the fast food restaurants.
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  • Profile picture of the author PaidToEmpower
    Well, perhaps I am being simplistic here...but the real question is not whether or not college is a joke...it is whether or not college is a joke FOR YOU.

    Obviously if you are not getting anything out of it, quit. You will lose the lesson of "seeing it through to the end" but you are young and will have lots of other experiences to get that lesson. Problem may be, you will make a habit of it and NEVER get the lesson.

    As for Maserati's and millions...those are just measuring sticks for some people, not everyone.

    I think it is great to have a different viewpoint and share that with others (your fellow college students), but just because you are not getting anything out of it, does not mean they aren't...Nor does it make them the idiots you seem to think they are. This is what's great about life, lots of different people, lots of different viewpoints.

    Just think...if EVERYONE did IM we'd all be bitching about our profits being cut into...!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author BillyD
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    • Profile picture of the author Capone
      Enjoy these days at college because you'll never get them back. I didn't like school either but I still look back on college as GREAT days. There's a lot more besides class. Just plan on being your own boss after you graduate.
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  • Profile picture of the author mun
    Personally education is great if you wana be wokring for someone, for me its juts a safety net. If there is one thing I've realised is that no matter who your work for you dont actually get paid your effort's value lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author gareth
    Dude I have more credits than required for my degree.

    I need 2 compulsory papers. But i went and checked today and i have several papers that are at too lower level so now I must do 6 papers to finish not 2.

    I feel like packing my bags.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tanner Reames
    sorry to hear about that
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Learning from one person in one house? How on earth will that make them free and individual thinkers? Sounds more like prison.
      John (Rowe, that is) - it depends on WHY you are home schooling. Public schools in this country often aim at creating uniformity, not individualism. If the goal is control and protection - home school can be limiting. If the goal is a broader education and a higher standard of learning, it can be great.

      My three nieces (2 education degrees and one degreed in chemistry) home schooled all of their children through elementary school (and they had a total of 17 children!). The children have a choice of going to public school if they want for middle and/or high school. Only two have chosen the public school route.

      These smart sisters school their own children 3 days a week and trade off 2 days a week. Every one of those children has excelled on the state tests they are required to take and the two that have now entered college are 4.0 students and were able to "test" out of many basic classes.

      Obviously, with that many kids social interaction isn't a problem - but also in their locale home schooled children can participate in school sports so they do make other friends, too. I don't get to see them often but I'm always amazed that they are some of the nicest, most outgoing and friendly young people I've seen anywhere.

      Like anything, home schooling is what you make of it.

      kay
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      I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.


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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Mouse and Mice.

    I was in school about 10 years before the real dumb down got to college level.
    I did a few times though, during a test go up and ask the prof if he wanted the right answer or the governmentally sanctioned shit. I graduated with honors. Seems a lot of the time even the profs know when they are spreading crap on bread to feed to us. If applied like peanut butter, I suppose it is supposed to taste like it, too.
    And it does, to many. Let them eat it happily and look for the others in your classes who have a brain left. Then just grab what you can out of what you are learning and run with it. Professors can still be instructive in leading you to the right areas for intensive thought and analysis -- and if you actually go in and sit and talk with any of them, you'll find they are a lot more cooperative in helping one on one with a student who actually thinks...remember, they go against what they are supposed to teach and it can hurt their tenure. If you can't get through to them just answer the damned questions the way they will be happy and move on to the other courses taught by people a bit more open to the guy behind the curtain.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      The OP hasn't been back to the thread after over 100 replies... so much for giving advice!

      Lots of great replies here... but seems like everyone's giving their take on what college means (or meant) to them... that may or may not have anything to do with the OP...he should do what's best for him.

      People generally go to college to earn more money, to learn, to learn discipline, and to broaden their horizons (at least those are the main reasons I've seen in this thread).

      If he's already got a Maserati from his IM business he doesn't need a degree for the money... and for the same reason he must have plenty of discipline already to be that successful... he can learn anytime he wants to (he can go back to college later at any time, read books, or even hire personal tutors)... he can broaden his horizons by using his already-considerable earnings to travel the world and see other cultures...

      With what little we know about the OP I'd say college is a waste of his time... but of course he has to make his own decision, hopefully he's not listening to a bunch of people on a forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Christie Love
    I agree. I guess people will just have to learn the hard way. I delayed school because I knew that the amount of money you make is NOT a reflection of how much schooling you've received. In fact, all the millionaires I know never even finished high school. But, I decided to go back to get my Masters degree anyway. For me, it was a personal accomplishment and something that no one can ever take away from me.

    So, don't think going to school is a waste. Just use the skills learned for your own benefit. I did grow in many ways than just learning to be a slave to someone else. You'll see. Schools not all bad. Just do your assignments while you smirk above everyone else.
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    • Profile picture of the author filterstb
      Originally Posted by Christie Love View Post

      But, I decided to go back to get my Masters degree anyway. For me, it was a personal accomplishment and something that no one can ever take away from me.
      I think that's the best reason to go to grad school. I don't think it should be about salary, job safety, or tenure with a university...all of those reasons may not be "worth" it. But when you get what you want out of the experience, then it's worth it. When you can fit it into your career -- not one you think you should have -- then it's worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author greenfin
    Banned
    Nice joke! But be serious now, i think your teacher's advice is very true. You can learn these things when you entered in practical life.
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  • Profile picture of the author gareth
    I'm happy with uni now - they are letting me finish my degree with 2 night class papers this year.

    sweeeeet
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  • Profile picture of the author morwanneg
    If anything, college will only help you cope with the corporate world. It won't teach how to be successful. You always need to find your way to success. Though most professors will teach you to be ethical or to kiss a** with your boss, there are some amazing professors out there who will teach you to be real and stand by your principles no matter what.
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