India's Biometric ID Card

12 years ago

This is really scary stuff. Still - with 1.2 billion people, I'd think they have enough manpower to tell the gov to shove off. There's not much you can say when millions or hundreds of millions of people allow a very small number to enslave them like this.

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realseowarrior

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

This is really scary stuff. Still - with 1.2 billion people, I'd think they have enough manpower to tell the gov to shove off. There's not much you can say when millions or hundreds of millions of people allow a very small number to enslave them like this.

I think you are gone out of your mind. Enrolling in a government scheme to get Unique ID that will used everywhere instead of lot of documents will save the person from a lot of head ache and you are talking about enslaving!!! Please dont show your mental standard here.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by realseowarrior

I think you are gone out of your mind. Enrolling in a government scheme to get Unique ID that will used everywhere instead of lot of documents will save the person from a lot of head ache and you are talking about enslaving!!! Please dont show your mental standard here.

I will show my "mental standard" wherever I please. We are not talking about a system such as SSN as we have in America - and as Steve pointed out, that has kind of backfired on us. What you are talking about is BIO-identification. IF that doesn't scare people, I don't know what to say.

Do you also have the same attitude about the fact that India has just taken moves to censor your Internet use?

It's not my country - and the only reason it even concerns me is that this type of "system" has a way of spreading to other countries, and if you've seen MY country's track record of what happens after "useful" legislation, you'd get the drift why over here we find the idea an abomination. If the people in India don't, then by all means they are free to use any system they damned well please.

I suppose that you really don't need to be concerned, either. I'm sure the oncoming censorship will protect you from having to read any ideas in opposition to the action soon enough.

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laurencewins

12 years ago

Big Brother is coming...just like we knew it would happen.
I believe that one day we will all be 'chipped.' My question is..
do we get a choice of flavour?

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LarryC

12 years ago

There are quite a few people from India on this forum. Perhaps some can comment. Is this mandatory? Or are they just going to make it very inconvenient for those who don't get one of these IDs? No doubt, the long term plan is to make this global in the not too distant future.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by LarryC

Naturally, such proposals are justified as ways to keep people more secure,

HOW can it EVER "keep people more secure"? In india there are TOO many people some very isolated, etc... And name ONE way it makes you secure?

In the US it is EFFECTIVELY ****AGAINST THE LAW**** to do this by precedent, media, etc.... for ANY minorities, at least to use to identify or restrict. HECK, one project I had to do recently was to try to match people for treatment. It was to follow several laws, reason, nd help schedule the treatment safely. EASY RIGHT? I mean laws say they need ID for medicare and treatment, etc!?!?!?!? RIGHT?????????????

WRONG! There is another law making it illegal to deny treatment for any reason, so the patient doesn't need ID AT ALL!

YEP, we get ALL of the problems and none of the benefits! ANYWAY, if employers, hospitals, doctors, schools, etc.... are REQUIRED to not pay attention to t, doesn't that mean they don't need it, etc....?

Don't you just love it when laws require you to BREAK the law! They couldn't report because the ID was wrong, so they are not allowed to do something they are mandated to do. Of course, beng mandated, they smply can't report it.

Steve

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Roaddog

12 years ago

A brazillion people in India...This may take a while.

The social security number we have here, was never actually designed (supposedly) to use for tracking...try not having one now.

Ever wonder who was 001?...lol

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LarryC

12 years ago

<< HOW can it EVER "keep people more secure"? In india there are TOO many people some very isolated, etc... And name ONE way it makes you secure? >>

I'm not saying it really does, but they can come up with all kinds of arguments. Some people in the U.S. chip their pets and even kids, to supposedly keep them safe from getting lost or kidnapped. Then there are the "stop terrorism/drugs/crime" type of arguments. There's even a medical justification -they can instantly figure out what type of treatment you need.

The problem is, you can never be completely secure, and if you could be, then you'd have very little freedom. And who will keep us secure from the people doing the watching?

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by LarryC

I'm not saying it really does, but they can come up with all kinds of arguments.

I know, I was just commenting.

Some people in the U.S. chip their pets and even kids, to supposedly keep them safe from getting lost or kidnapped.

Planes can fly because kids splash water when they hit the pool! WHAT? That didn't make sense? It makes JUST as much sense as chips allowing people to keep their freedom, get a decent shake, and live in peace, because chips allow pets to be tracked.

Chips do NOT make pets safer! They can STILL get run over, mauled, killed, etc... However NOBODY wants them all over the street, so people send them to the pound. The pound might use them to ID and return the pets. GRANTED kids might end up in orphanages, etc.... MOST kids could say something to make it clear who they are, and there ARE some OTHER records, like footprints, that can track them. They don't need to be CHIPED and, if they were, it probably wouldn't help them ONE BIT.

Then there are the "stop terrorism/drugs/crime" type of arguments. There's even a medical justification -they can instantly figure out what type of treatment you need.

WOW, the government STILL hasn't released info from Area 51 that could save THEM! Oh well, most of them are probably dead already. It HAS been over a decade.

The problem is, you can never be completely secure, and if you could be, then you'd have very little freedom. And who will keep us secure from the people doing the watching?

EXACTLY! I read just TODAY about 3 places over the US. These are LITERALLY only a few out of DOZENS I have heard about! TWO of them affected me DIRECTLY, and the government is HELPING them! If the government would stop that, and stay away from tearing the constitution apart, I would be happy and CERTAINLY SAFER!

The ONLY one on this PLANET that has the diligence and potential to protect you 100% of the time, the ********ONLY******** one is YOU! Think about it! If every army on the PLANET were to try to save you they would have to instantaneously surround you. They can't even protect the president of the US, and they ARE there almost all of the time, etc... They have the street shut off, barricades in front, and a guard. ALSO, individual tours and various other tours are shut down. There used to be a parking lot, and it was closed like 2 decades ago and made into a garden. I wonder if that wasn't partially for security ALSO. They have a special police department which is supposed to be ESPECIALLY careful about THAT place and STILL there are attempts. Oh yeah, they put bullet proof glass, etc... in some areas. I went down there as recently as about 5 years ago, and it is NOT as open as they earlier showed and stated.

So the government should not even TRY to say WAIT FOR THE POLICE or whatever. WHAT? Crooks and all will STOP after you dial 9 on the phone? What planet are THEY from!

Steve
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Sumit Menon

12 years ago

It shouldn't be as bad as you guys make it sound. I don't know, I haven't read 1984... But, I'll tell you this, Law and Order is in chaos in the country. Like only 25% of the cases are ever solved. A DNA database should help. Plus with a UID, there is a central system to calculate/collect taxes. Right now taxes are calculated based on the PAN number, but you could have more than one PAN card/number and no one would know. And these cost like Rs. 100-180 (4 dollars) to make. So, someone could take a loan and move to another state and the police would have a hell of time finding him.

But, I don't know how they are gonna implement this. There are so many people living on the streets!

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MoreTricks

12 years ago

As an Indian I want to agree with Sumit Menon , We peoples think that this will be helpful for all Indians and not a bad thing like you peoples discussed.However I don't know when will the government will finish the distribution of this card to all Indian residence.

It will be useful if and only if it is provided to all Indians

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businessreviewkenya

12 years ago

It is amusing when there is a talk of people being chipped for monitoring purposes. I would like to hear more from those in India.

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realseowarrior 12 years ago

Originally Posted by businessreviewkenya

It is amusing when there is a talk of people being chipped for monitoring purposes. I would like to hear more from those in India.

LOLZ cant believe you guys making the news at your own!!! There is no such thing like monitoring there it is used Just SSN in US.
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- seasoned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by realseowarrior
  
  LOLZ cant believe you guys making the news at your own!!! There is no such thing like monitoring there it is used Just SSN in US.
  
  I guess being in paris would explain why you know NOTHING about the SSN. It WAS once supposedly used for a kind of pension system, and THAT is how they packaged it to get it passed. NOW, it is becomming less and less of a pension fund. It is virtually WORTHLESS! But it is used as a tracking system for like everything, including taxes.
  
  Scammers LOVE stealing SSN numbers because it allows them to destroy people's lives and, for perhaps for every dollar the person ever made they can get maybe $3. Some people wipe out their credit, and go bankrupt just to stop the destruction.
  
  It is SO popular that they have made up a new term for it! Identity theft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  
  I wonder if anyone ever sat down, figured out:
  
  1. The ENORMOUS expense of it.
  2. The time involved.
  3. Effect of differences in service.
  4. The little bit of money they MIGHT get in Social security.
  5. The other often meager benefits.
  6. Lost time.
  7. And now id theft, etc...
  8. Oh, and for something that should be kept secret, a LOT of people must know it. Heck, now they are mandating that people having virtual affiliates must collect the IDs!
  
  If it could be used to track us better and limit us more, WOW! Not to make it religious, but someone came out with a Christian movie series called Left Behind. You may TOTALLY disagree with the premise, but their idea about having to pledge your allegiance and get some ID has been played out ALL OVER! It is VERY well done in THAT show. And the idea of limiting liberties is not new either. They have to create small groups, develop a way of getting introduced and communicating. They have to somehow impersonate the mark, etc... to get basic goods. Just forget why the people disappeared. Maybe they were dissenters, WHO KNOWS!?
  
  Heck, the old TV series V was kind of the same, although THERE it may get lost in everything else.
  
  Steve
  
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JoeUK

12 years ago

Originally Posted by LarryC

India is implementing a massive national ID program that uses biometric data to keep track of everyone. This is only one small step away from giving everyone a "chip" that allows them to be monitored at all times. Naturally, such proposals are justified as ways to keep people more secure, but it's a way to create an Orwellian world where Big Brother can watch you at every moment.

<< Recently, India has launched a nationwide program involving the allocation of a Unique Identification Number (UID) to every single one of its 1.2 billion residents. Each of the numbers will be tied to the biometric data of the recipient using three different forms of information - fingerprints, iris scans, and pictures of the face. All ten digits of the hand will be recorded, and both eyes will be scanned. >>

Activist Post: Cashless Society: India Implements First Biometric ID Program for all of its 1.2 Billion Residents

I agree, it's pretty frightening in a way and also suggests the potential for a cashless society which also can't be good

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LeeLee

12 years ago

This is interesting. Pros and cons. Could be used for good, but history says not likely.

I found this interesting this week:

As of Feb. 1, financial transactions of more than 1,000 euros must be paid electronically in Italy — be it rent for off-base housing, buying furniture on the economy, visiting the dentist or paying the mechanic.
Italy recently capped cash transactions at 1,000 euros in an effort to crack down on tax evaders; it’s one small part of Italy’s austerity package, aimed at reducing the nation’s mounting debt.

Italy: Transactions exceeding 1,000 euros must be electronic - News - Stripes

So much for staying off the grid.

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LarryC

12 years ago

LeeLee, banning cash transactions is also an ominous sign. But it would seem that the only way to really do that would be to totally eliminate cash. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any way to stop people from using it, and it would just create a bigger black market. Of course, that is the long term plan -a completely cashless society and a global, electronic currency.

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whateverpedia

12 years ago

There was a time (during my lifetime actually) that when people read "Nineteen Eighty Four", they saw it as a parable of what can happen in a totalitarian state where people have no rights and are constantly monitored "for their own good", and the abuses that develop from such a system.

Now it seems, our "leaders" have read it and come to the conclusion that "Hey, that sounds like a great idea. Let's do it."

The big question about societies/nations that are "watched" is, who watches the watchers?

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

There was a time (during my lifetime actually) that when people read "Nineteen Eighty Four", they saw it as a parable of what can happen in a totalitarian state where people have no rights and are constantly monitored "for their own good", and the abuses that develop from such a system.

Now it seems, our "leaders" have read it and come to the conclusion that "Hey, that sounds like a great idea. Let's do it."

The big question about societies/nations that are "watched" is, who watches the watchers?

1984 gets a LOT of press for this. The basis of it is even shown in the BIBLE! So it is an OLD concept. The ONLY thing is that you need to do it FAST and/or have a LOT of power.

With computers, and massive armies, BOTH are now the case, making it more likely than ever. As technology improves, things only get worse. Look at what happened when they created a massively powerful bomb!

Steve

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Kay King

12 years ago

Some people in the U.S. chip their pets and even kids

That's an argument that doesn't make sense. Chipping a pet is bad? How is that if you can find your pet and bring him home? I've not heard of chipping kids but there are tracker bracelets and necklaces. IN a public park or a busy entertainment area - seems like a good safety precaution.

For dogs - guaranteeing they are returned if lost is more important to their well being than protecting their "rights' to be "free":rolleyes:

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LarryC

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

That's an argument that doesn't make sense. Chipping a pet is bad? How is that if you can find your pet and bring him home? I've not heard of chipping kids but there are tracker bracelets and necklaces. IN a public park or a busy entertainment area - seems like a good safety precaution.

For dogs - guaranteeing they are returned if lost is more important to their well being than protecting their "rights' to be "free":rolleyes:

I wasn't making an argument, just talking about the way this technology is being used and the justifications for it. I don't have a problem with it being used on pets. Apparently, it's not yet widely used on children, but there are proposals to use it on special needs children. I actually think it will be hard to sell this in America, with so many religious people who will (understandably) connect it with the Mark of the Beast.

School District Wants to Microchip Students - Special Needs-Families.com

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Kay King

12 years ago

I can see a time when GPS chips will be available that are so small they can be incorporated into a small pin that could be attached to clothing or even be used as a patch placed on the body. In the case of Alzheimer patients, mentally challenged children and adults - this could be a lifesaver.

Many of the issues that seem to polarize for/against movements are things I can see reason for if the issue is applied properly or development to the full extent of usefulness. Until ten years ago many here would have argued strongly about the "right to privacy" but after 9/11 and with the advent of the internet, people opted for safety and convenience over privacy. Who'd have thunk it?

As for India - when you consider the actions of the Reserve Bank in recent years, I think anything is possible. What matters is what those who live there think and accept. We can't apply our cultural views to another country in a way that makes sense.

kay

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I can see a time when GPS chips will be available that are so small they can be incorporated into a small pin that could be attached to clothing or even be used as a patch placed on the body. In the case of Alzheimer patients, mentally challenged children and adults - this could be a lifesaver.

Many of the issues that seem to polarize for/against movements are things I can see reason for if the issue is applied properly or development to the full extent of usefulness. Until ten years ago many here would have argued strongly about the "right to privacy" but after 9/11 and with the advent of the internet, people opted for safety and convenience over privacy. Who'd have thunk it?

As for India - when you consider the actions of the Reserve Bank in recent years, I think anything is possible. What matters is what those who live there think and accept. We can't apply our cultural views to another country in a way that makes sense.

kay

Maybe you don't know this, but these chips are *****SO***** tiny *****NOW***** that they can be given using a kind of hypodermic needle, and you may NEVER know! That isn't science fiction, or even new, that is the way it is NOW!

Steve

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HeySal

12 years ago

The problem is - governments usually don't care what their people want. They decide and force the decision on the people. I'm pretty sure nobody over there is real thrilled with the gov's decision to censor their Internet, but that's what is happening.

These moves to track people always seem to be accompanied with censorship and I don't care what the logic or reasoning, it scares me. There are people in that country I consider friends, and I hope they will be okay.

As far as chips here in the US - there's not one thing anyone will ever say to me that can make me believe that reducing humans to the level of livestock is a good thing. I don't care who thinks I'm debt collateral - I do not belong to World Bank - I am NOT inventory. There's not one reason on earth that my government needs to be able to track every damned move I make.

I can't even start to comprehend what it would be like to have parents that would allow that done to me. The very idea that people can even have a discussion about whether chipping a human is okay or not makes my blood run cold. I can't imagine how terrifying it would feel if I were also Christian. Holy cow.

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KingOfMusic

12 years ago

You people really need to watch Jesse Ventura's Conspiracy Theories. Ought to be called facts actually. Not being bigoted but if you don't seem to agree with it, then your mind is just totally conditioned by the media... exactly what they want.

Just watch these 6 parts,

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

It's really intriguing, and the evidences are very hard to ignore, you see for yourself. This one isn't about the chips, I can't remember where I saw that one. This is creepier. Art work of people suffering put in an airport in full view of people, supposedly being a clue to people who can understand it and save their own lives.

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kokopelli

12 years ago

Originally Posted by laurencewins

Big Brother is coming...

Too late, he's here already!

We are already being spied on every day (e.g. I lived in London, England, for a bit, and there's cameras literally everywhere), and our privacy is being invaded so much now (both on and offline), that it's almost non-existent already.

And the worst thing is, we're allowing this to happen! Just willingly giving up our freedoms like that.

So, I guess, we'll deserve to all be "chipped" one day, unless we stop these invasions immediately. In the US, we have a chance to vote this year on a new leader and hopefully make a difference - DO IT! (Did I hear anyone say Ron Paul?)

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LarryC

12 years ago

And here comes the edible chip!

British pharmacy chain announces roll-out of new smart pills loaded with microchip

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Kay King 12 years ago

Wouldn't it be something if such a small pill or implant could be used to record blood sugar levels for diabetics on a 24/7 basis. No finger pricks and better insulin dosage might be possible.

So many of these thingies sound intrusive - but might have some real life saving potential or improve the life of someone with chronic disease.
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India's Biometric ID Card

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